Xperia Z1 shipped with incomplete Camera capabilities?

Xperia Z1 shipped with incomplete Camera capabilities? - Xperia Z1 General

Hello,
Based on a post on one of the Sony Mobile forums:
Tobbe Swe
"Just found something interresting.. It´s from the Xperia Z1 Review Guide
This is also Sony’s most creative camera to date. In addition to the next version of Sony’s
Superior Auto Mode (designed to make it easier for casual photographers to adjust camera
settings for their surroundings), Xperia Z1’s camera will also come with a full set of manual
settings for more advanced photographers. This will enable manual control of shutter speed and
aperture settings as well as manual over and under exposure control."
Out of curiousity, I dug up that particular article. Just do a google search for http://blogs.sonymobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Xperia_Z1_review_guide.pdf
After reading that guide, I can't help but think that Sony shipped the Xperia Z1 even without having optimized Camera software! It says that users can be able to manually control shutter speed and aperture settings but currently we can't. I'm hoping this is not just a mistake for the sake of marketing but actual features that will come in the (hopefully not too soon) future!
Let's hope that 4.3 will bring lots of updates especially to the camera and camera app.

bloodfire1004 said:
Hello,
Based on a post on one of the Sony Mobile forums:
Tobbe Swe
"Just found something interresting.. It´s from the Xperia Z1 Review Guide
This is also Sony’s most creative camera to date. In addition to the next version of Sony’s
Superior Auto Mode (designed to make it easier for casual photographers to adjust camera
settings for their surroundings), Xperia Z1’s camera will also come with a full set of manual
settings for more advanced photographers. This will enable manual control of shutter speed and
aperture settings as well as manual over and under exposure control."
Out of curiousity, I dug up that particular article. Just do a google search for http://blogs.sonymobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Xperia_Z1_review_guide.pdf
After reading that guide, I can't help but think that Sony shipped the Xperia Z1 even without having optimized Camera software! It says that users can be able to manually control shutter speed and aperture settings but currently we can't. I'm hoping this is not just a mistake for the sake of marketing but actual features that will come in the (hopefully not too soon) future!
Let's hope that 4.3 will bring lots of updates especially to the camera and camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1

I read through a bit and I noticed " Wet Finger Tracking". I guess they forgot that one. It's utterly impossible for me to use it when wet or in light rain. :/
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

Daelyn said:
I read through a bit and I noticed " Wet Finger Tracking". I guess they forgot that one. It's utterly impossible for me to use it when wet or in light rain. :/
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my phone works perfectly well in light rain (just tested yesterday), haven't tested on heavy one though.

bloodfire1004 said:
Hello,
Based on a post on one of the Sony Mobile forums:
Tobbe Swe
"Just found something interresting.. It´s from the Xperia Z1 Review Guide
This is also Sony’s most creative camera to date. In addition to the next version of Sony’s
Superior Auto Mode (designed to make it easier for casual photographers to adjust camera
settings for their surroundings), Xperia Z1’s camera will also come with a full set of manual
settings for more advanced photographers. This will enable manual control of shutter speed and
aperture settings as well as manual over and under exposure control."
Out of curiousity, I dug up that particular article. Just do a google search for http://blogs.sonymobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Xperia_Z1_review_guide.pdf
After reading that guide, I can't help but think that Sony shipped the Xperia Z1 even without having optimized Camera software! It says that users can be able to manually control shutter speed and aperture settings but currently we can't. I'm hoping this is not just a mistake for the sake of marketing but actual features that will come in the (hopefully not too soon) future!
Let's hope that 4.3 will bring lots of updates especially to the camera and camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that's called as finding something.
Hope it is true in near future.

I just hope they are really committed to improve it post launch, unlike many companies that just take your money and ran.

Gitaroo said:
I just hope they are really committed to improve it post launch, unlike many companies that just take your money and ran.
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Looking at the big increase in camera quality with the new firmware why did Sony release it with the camera software like this?
Mind going by my past experience with their Android handsets this isn't the first time they appear to have done this.

Super Chimp said:
Looking at the big increase in camera quality with the new firmware why did Sony release it with the camera software like this?
Mind going by my past experience with their Android handsets this isn't the first time they appear to have done this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I woud hazard a guess that the phone had to be out by a certain date to be competitive with the other major brands, and the firmware version at the time was deemed good enough for most people. Imagine if Sony had held off launching the Z1 just because the camera firmware wasn't finalized? People would be complaining that Sony was late to the party. This time Sony was directly in fight with everyone else. A shame things couldn't be finalized in time, but I imagine they'll strive to improve upon this sort of thing in the future.

Either put out the phone on time and fix it later but at least get a user base and be novel or wait until every software aspect is perfect (which is impossible, otherwise updates would never be necessary) and be late to the game and lose a lot of users.
I yet have to see the first phone that works exactly as advertised or planned in all aspects.

Still Sony did good with z1. Everything work and stable. Looking forward to further improvements. The worst in my experience was galaxy note 1. It came with very buggy firmware causing phone to crash a lot. And firmware update was slow. In contrast Sony is updating z1 very fast.
Sent from my C6902 using xda app-developers app

I found Z1 firmware (534) very good and I really hope they will work on camera software and that we'll have even greater device
We have awesome hardware, now we need just a bit better software...
Thumb up for Sony this time...
If we compare this to XS firmware and time that we waited for 4.1.2 - it's very big step forward
I'm guessing manufacturers finally bump into wall and realised it's time to give better software and user experience - we have hardware we can't even use fully...it's time for more often updates and faster ROM releases...
It's time for KitKat to come and we can still see that devices are released powered by 4.2.2....
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

We now have Android 4.4 KitKat with an improved camera surely, but still real exposure control is nowhere to be found. I'm really surprised I hadn't heard anything about this before, so +1 from me. Here's to hoping the Xperia Z2 will get it through an upgrade some time, and it'll be ported to the Z1. I love how the two devices are so similar :cyclops:
Has anyone contacted Sony about this claim? Could we make them include this in a software upgrade? As of now it looks like they've lied to us to get more buyers, which is certainly not legally permitted. It's definitely a legal document on the Xperia Z1's camera capabilities, with Sony's logo all over the pages and since it's downloadable from the official Sony website as well.
"... This is also Sony’s most creative camera to date. In addition to the next version of Sony’s
Superior Auto Mode (designed to make it easier for casual photographers to adjust camera
settings for their surroundings), Xperia Z1’s camera will also come with a full set of manual
settings for more advanced photographers. This will enable manual control of shutter speed and
aperture settings as well as manual over and under exposure control."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Underlined is what we have.
Bold is what we need.
We should do something about this.

It´s funny how you found my post on the Sony Mobile forum and yes the Xperia Z1 isn´t up to par with the settings talked about in the papers. I have talked with SonyMobile here in Sweden and the only reply i got is that the ISO settings in M mode changed the shutter speed and the never said anything about the manual apature no matter how hard i showed them evidence from the white paper/manual. The Z1 camera can performe alot better then it is now on 4.4 kitkat. It doesn´t seem like they want to give the Z1 better camera capabilitys.... They are Sony, one of the best camera makers in the world and they leave us with a top of the range phone with a awesome camera on paper with all the exellent hardware but in real life it´s not up to standard when it comes to picture quality!!!!!

i have read somewhere that manual camera focus/shutter speed etc are not still implemented in 4.4.2 Google android code. samsung use their self-made packages in their camera series.. if so we may have to wait.. seriously i miss sonyericsson cybershots.. that is one hell of camera they put on mobile when the other manufactures are still thinking to research ... but now sony is far behind in camera..

showlyshah said:
i have read somewhere that manual camera focus/shutter speed etc are not still implemented in 4.4.2 Google android code. samsung use their self-made packages in their camera series.. if so we may have to wait.. seriously i miss sonyericsson cybershots.. that is one hell of camera they put on mobile when the other manufactures are still thinking to research ... but now sony is far behind in camera..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
those old cybershots camera probably use true camera parts to process their picture taken, unlike now they rely on the SoC. Even though Sony got the camera team to do the camera for Z1, but they have no experience using ARM processors like S800 to do camera processing probably.

TobbeSwe said:
It´s funny how you found my post on the Sony Mobile forum and yes the Xperia Z1 isn´t up to par with the settings talked about in the papers. I have talked with SonyMobile here in Sweden and the only reply i got is that the ISO settings in M mode changed the shutter speed and the never said anything about the manual apature no matter how hard i showed them evidence from the white paper/manual. The Z1 camera can performe alot better then it is now on 4.4 kitkat. It doesn´t seem like they want to give the Z1 better camera capabilitys.... They are Sony, one of the best camera makers in the world and they leave us with a top of the range phone with a awesome camera on paper with all the exellent hardware but in real life it´s not up to standard when it comes to picture quality!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've asked about manual control as well in a thread or 2 on here and again answers are various.
2 scenarios why manual control is stated in this document
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Xperia_Z1_review_guide.pdf
First, the document was not made by Sony but more likely a marketing firm which just received information from Sony regarding the camera, ie manual control etc etc and thought "hey manual control? must be like dslr probably can change aperture and shutter of course, duh". Sony has known to outsource for marketing and such firms can get things wrong.
Second scenario, Sony made the document, but full manual control settings didn't make the development cut and were not included in the final model but the text remained, this is probably less likely but who knows.
Next, aperture control on a smart phone with a FIXED f/2 aperture? Even Sony knows that this is not possible not matter how you bend the physics, fixed aperture is fixed aperture and if you don't have aperture blades (diaphragm) on the lens, then you are stuck at f/2. I don't think a small lens like the one on the Z1/Z2 can fit small enough aperture blades, don't think miniaturization has made it possible yet. Therefore I feel again, marketing firm messed this up by adding aperture control.
Next is shutter speed, hit and miss here, can we control it? kind of, if you set it to sports mode in 8MP mode, you will get a much faster shutter speed in order to capture the sporty action or fasting moving options. If you set it to one of the SCN modes, don't recall which one, perhaps night scene, you can slow down the shutter to 0.77s. In other modes you have 1/8 or 1/4s of a shutter speed, which is manual shutter control but not directly, the phone sets it, but if you choose the right SCN mode, you can "choose" shutter speed. I know this is not the same as actually selecting a shutter speed but it's the best we have so far.
I believe (I may be wrong, probably am) by adjusting the EV you can force the different shutter speed. Doing a quick test, at ISO200 and EV+2 and -2, there shutter speed was the same in both, 1/8. Bumping up iso to 800, +2, speed was 1/8, at -2 speed was 1/16. So there is a slight difference. So higher iso will give faster shutter speed it seems as not to overexpose the image. This is what is probably driving the shutter speed on the camera.
At higher iso, 8MP, +2 and iso3200, 1/8 still, at iso5000 (was set at 3200), -2, it was 1/125, so the phone is doing some shutter control clearly, and it is somewhere in the software to control it, but no real manual control. Which brings up the final point mentioned to me by a user on here whom I can't recall the name of (apologies), there is no apk or code in android currently to control exposure time, but clearly something is happening here on the Sony camera, so either Sony wrote the software or apk or black magic is happening.
For those wondering about the camera's from samsung running android and have shutter control, from what was mentioned on this forum, samsung added the necessary software controls for such tricks.
Manual focus would be hard, not sure how it would be done even, probably on screen, best to just leave it to the autofocus.
There is mention of a new sensor for the Z3, 1/2.4 size, same megapixel count, probably to make the device smaller, but what would be better is to have hybrid autofocus on the sensor, like the new A6000 has, contrast detection and phase detection to speed things up. Having seen various videos of the new A6000 auto focusing, I will admit, this should be the next step for Sony and the sensor for the Z3.
Samsung has phase detection on the S5, not sure if it is hybrid, but if anyone can pull it off, it is Sony, but who knows.
tl;dr, version, manual control exists to some degree but not directly, probably a marketing firm made the pdf with the information and screwed up.
Gitaroo said:
those old cybershots camera probably use true camera parts to process their picture taken, unlike now they rely on the SoC. Even though Sony got the camera team to do the camera for Z1, but they have no experience using ARM processors like S800 to do camera processing probably.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel this is the issue, and perhaps in a future phone, probably not z3, maybe z4/z5, a dedicated bionz chip will be used and it will be more like a real point and shoot.

Has Sony produced any documentation to detail each manual SCN mode? That would be really useful. Some are fairly self explanatory but by no means all.

In other modes you have 1/8 or 1/4s of a shutter speed, which is manual shutter control but not directly, the phone sets it, but if you choose the right SCN mode, you can "choose" shutter speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have loved night mode if it weren't for the fact that scenes cannot be used in 20 megapixel mode. Although some may argue that many pixels aren't necessary, I just want to make the most out of my photographs. I want to be able to crop. Which brings me to the even more important point about night mode: even the 8 megapixel shot isn't detailed. And why? Because the shutter speed is still too high. Does anyone remember the Sony Ericsson Satio 12 megapixel cameraphone of how many years ago was it? It could take stunning low light shots due to a very long exposure, the one part where its camera even beat the Nokia N8. Now the Lumia 1020 can do 4 second exposure with a larger aperture afaik. And what does the Z1 do? Far from a second. And it's not even possible to manually set.
Look, I absolutely love the Z1's camera in bright lights with ISO-50. But when the lights go out, the camera quality is poor considered it's supposed to be a flagship cameraphone. Oh and did I mention that exposure compensation does not affect anything at ISO-50 on my device? Dark images due to low ISO aren't getting any brighter while I'm expecting the exposure to prolong when I set the compensation higher...

Related

Xperia Z1 2nd Place in DxO Mark's Overall Mobile Camera Ranking

Apparently, DxO Mark just gave out a score to Xperia Z1 and amazingly, just sits at 2nd place behind the Pureview 808 in overall Mobile Camera Ranking! :victory:
And that's without the "firmware updates" that will supposedly improve the camera!
I can't post the link as I'm still within the new user limitation of posting outside links. But if you're curious to see it, just do a quick google search for DxOMark and Xperia Z1!
More details:
Actually, the stills for Z1 stands at 5th place, however the video was deemed to be outstanding and the best in the mobile cameras and just 2nd place in their database behind the GoPro Hero 3!
If you're wondering what happened to the 1020, they also have an article on it and while they deemed the stills to be amazing and 2nd only to the 808. However, video was said to be lacking.
What are your thoughts?

bloodfire1004 said:
Apparently, DxO Mark just gave out a score to Xperia Z1 and amazingly, just sits at 2nd place behind the Pureview 808 in overall Mobile Camera Ranking! :victory:
And that's without the "firmware updates" that will supposedly improve the camera!
I can't post the link as I'm still within the new user limitation of posting outside links. But if you're curious to see it, just do a quick google search for DxOMark and Xperia Z1!
More details:
Actually, the stills for Z1 stands at 5th place, however the video was deemed to be outstanding and the best in the mobile cameras and just 2nd place in their database behind the GoPro Hero 3!
If you're wondering what happened to the 1020, they also have an article on it and while they deemed the stills to be amazing and 2nd only to the 808. However, video was said to be lacking.
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the big sensor is the key here. Dxomark doesn't reflect the real life though. I'm not very happy with the z1 camera... far too noisy especially at 20mp. Still better than my older nexus 4 anyway.

j0sh0 said:
I guess the big sensor is the key here. Dxomark doesn't reflect the real life though. I'm not very happy with the z1 camera... far too noisy especially at 20mp. Still better than my older nexus 4 anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just curious, what settings are you using? I'm pretty satisfied with the Z1 Camera of mine, but that was after tweaking some of the shooting settings I'm in. At first, I was pretty disappointed as well but now I think I'm good.

bloodfire1004 said:
Just curious, what settings are you using? I'm pretty satisfied with the Z1 Camera of mine, but that was after tweaking some of the shooting settings I'm in. At first, I was pretty disappointed as well but now I think I'm good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought the phone yesterday so I'm still testing it. At the moment I like to shoot in manual mode at 8mp with image stabiliser on.

j0sh0 said:
I bought the phone yesterday so I'm still testing it. At the moment I like to shoot in manual mode at 8mp with image stabiliser on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ok. That's good then. Shooting at 20MP especially in low-light results in (I'm not sure why) worse pictures than shooting at 8MP 4:3 .. in my tests, it resulted in darker images.
I also like to shoot at 8MP 4:3 to take advantage of the oversampling and leave the rest of the settings to Auto. One thing though is that I turn off the Stabilizer. I found that turning it on resulted in the camera choosing a much higher ISO than intended compared when leaving it off. This may be due to its detection of slight handshake movements and it tries to compensate by upping the ISO in favor of a faster shutter speed.

bloodfire1004 said:
Ah ok. That's good then. Shooting at 20MP especially in low-light results in (I'm not sure why) worse pictures than shooting at 8MP 4:3 .. in my tests, it resulted in darker images.
I also like to shoot at 8MP 4:3 to take advantage of the oversampling and leave the rest of the settings to Auto. One thing though is that I turn off the Stabilizer. I found that turning it on resulted in the camera choosing a much higher ISO than intended compared when leaving it off. This may be due to its detection of slight handshake movements and it tries to compensate by upping the ISO in favor of a faster shutter speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes shooting at 20mp is useless. Pics are so noisy... it's a shame. At 8mp the image quality is pretty good and yes, with the stabiliser on the iso is higher for that reason. But I prefer a bit more noise other than a blurred image.

j0sh0 said:
Yes shooting at 20mp is useless. Pics are so noisy... it's a shame. At 8mp the image quality is pretty good and yes, with the stabiliser on the iso is higher for that reason. But I prefer a bit more noise other than a blurred image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice. What metering and focus are you using? Particularly for macro / night shots. I find that using Single Auto Focus setting doesn't keep the whole image in focus and just the middle part, but I find that the multi-auto focus setting doesn't do too well either particularly in macro shots. Currently, I shoot in landscape mode when shooting macro.

I'm using metering average (it seems to do a better job with white balance as well). About focus I always use touch focus... I like to choose what I want in focus...
I love th bokeh management of the lens.. look at this for example
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j0sh0 said:
I'm using metering average (it seems to do a better job with white balance as well). About focus I always use touch focus... I like to choose what I want in focus...
I love th bokeh management of the lens.. look at this for example
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohh nice, I'm gonna try that out Thanks!

j0sh0 said:
I bought the phone yesterday so I'm still testing it. At the moment I like to shoot in manual mode at 8mp with image stabiliser on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there's you mistake - the software image stabiliser introduces noise. Switch it off.

Timaustin2000 said:
And there's you mistake - the software image stabiliser introduces noise. Switch it off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I know... but as I said I prefer a slighty noiser image than a blurred one. I'll try again without stabiliser anyway.

j0sh0 said:
Yeah, I know... but as I said I prefer a slighty noiser image than a blurred one. I'll try again without stabiliser anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully new update has improved superior auto mode...

Try night mode can reduce noise.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using xda app-developers app

Why is everyone so scared of noise I just don't get it. If the fine detail is their don't worry about the noise.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Yeah. The Z1 does lovely bokeh.

here is theDxO report for the Z1 which i could not find on DxO's website.
matheus_sc said:
I dont think samsung software is better, have more mods, but is very large and camera lags, i have gs4 9500 until last week
Sent from my C6903 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What i find telling from that review is this graph.
Above 80 lux the S4 shots have more 'texture' than the Z1.
Contrary to what people might think the Z1 has the best noise reduction indoors.

bloodfire1004 said:
Apparently, DxO Mark just gave out a score to Xperia Z1 and amazingly, just sits at 2nd place behind the Pureview 808 in overall Mobile Camera Ranking! :victory:
And that's without the "firmware updates" that will supposedly improve the camera!
I can't post the link as I'm still within the new user limitation of posting outside links. But if you're curious to see it, just do a quick google search for DxOMark and Xperia Z1!
More details:
Actually, the stills for Z1 stands at 5th place, however the video was deemed to be outstanding and the best in the mobile cameras and just 2nd place in their database behind the GoPro Hero 3!
If you're wondering what happened to the 1020, they also have an article on it and while they deemed the stills to be amazing and 2nd only to the 808. However, video was said to be lacking.
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not much of a fan of them anymore, after I wrote to them to see if they would do the Xperia Z test again after Sony updating the firmware to fix the bad camera quality, they didn't even respond to me. On the flip side it is Sony's fault for shipping substandard equipment, get all the important things right first, especially the camera when they are making such a big deal about how amazing it is.

DxO finally got around to testing the G2. Overall G2 placed 6th. However in the photo section it ties with the Z1 in terms of score. A closer examination of the parameters tested shows the Z1 edges ahead slighlty.
Where the Z1 comes out ahead : Exposure & Contrast, Colour, Noise Reduction, Flash
Where the G2 comes out ahead : Autofocus, Texture, Artifacts
4 > 3 or Z1 ahead by a little.
What lets the G2 down is video, where its ranked 15th to the Z1's 2nd place.
If you consider phones alone, Z1 has the best video out there.
Now we have to wait for DxO to test the Note 3 to see whether it will affect the Z1's ranking.

Sorry to jump here like that, I don't even know all this stuff but after read what you guys saying is like the camera on Z1 was made for experienced people who know how to set up the device. This is a phone anyway and I like to go around and shooting everything but almost of the pictures are crap. That how shouldn't be with a camera on a phone with 20mpx.

Z1 Camera Issue and the responses I get from Sony Support Team

I was really bummed about the camera app and quality when I first bought my Z1 because it didn't deliver what I thought it would. But I figured what the hell I love the looks of this phone I also find the waterproofnessness(!) extremely useful, so it doesn't matter if the camera doesn't deliver what I hoped for, I can live with it, you know? but then the "update" came and it made the camera worse than it was before, so naturally, as every camera fanatic would, I got really mad! I tried a bunch of apps but they were no good I also tried the so called "Superior Auto" mode and it didn't really helped so I had no other choice but to call Sony Support Center for help.... And this is what I got so far:
Oct 30
ME:
I just bought the Z1 with software v. 14.1.G.2.257.The camera takes terrible and I mean terrible pictures,lots and lots of noise and artifacts even in auto mode which only takes 8MP pics.This is not what you hope for when you buy an expensive 20.7MP camera phone.I also have iPhone 5/5S and they take much much better pictures,even though their specs are inferior on paper. You should be ashamed...Am I gonna have to live withit or youregonna fixit?
THEM:
Dear Ara,
Thank you for contacting Sony Xperia™ Online Support.
We're sorry to hear that you're experiencing poor image quality from the camera of your Xperia™ Z1. I'm happy to assist you today, however, in order to provide you with the best possible service, it would be helpful to have more information about the issue at hand.
Are you using the front facing camera, or the outward facing camera? Has the camera always captured low quality images, or is this a new issue? Have you tried restarting the phone by holding the power key and the volume up key simultaneously until the phone vibrates? Have you cleaned the outside of the lens?
If you will please reply with more information, we'll gladly assist you further.
As part of Sony Mobile's commitment to excellent customer service, we offer a wide variety of mobile products to suit your lifestyle. If you require more information, or have any other questions, please visit www.sonymobile.com.
Kind Regards,
Jessica
Sony Xperia Customer Services
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ME:
This is the same exact situation I'm in:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2501027
and come on what kind of an idiot contacts the costumer service before checking if the lens is clean?
Nov 9!
THEM:
Dear Ara,
Thank you for contacting Sony Xperia™ Online Support.
We apologize for the delay of our response. Regarding your inquiry, the best we can recommend is a software repair via computer in order to discard any possibility of a software glitch. For this follow the steps below:
Here is the link you will need to download PC Companion
http://www.sonymobile.com/us/tools/pc-companion/
Once you have downloaded the program these are the steps you will need to follow:
*Make sure the phone is fully charged or at least 50% charged
*Make sure your phone is completely powered off
*Open the program
*Click on Support Zone
*Select Phone Software Update
*Click on Repair Phone
**DO NOT CONNECT THE PHONE TO THE PC UNTIL YOU SEE A MESSAGE THAT WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN AND HOW TO DO IT
As part of Sony Mobile's commitment to excellent customer service, we offer a wide variety of mobile products to suit your lifestyle. If you require more information, or have any other questions, please visit www.sonymobile.com or call us at 1-866-766-9374.
Kind Regards,
Jessica
Sony Xperia US Customer Services
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ME:
Oh for god sake! This isn't a problem on my side... I'm actually in position of two Z1s one with 14.1.G.2.257 and the other with 14.1.G.1.534 both devices are absolutely clean by anymeans (software and hardware), I'll give you a comparison of the two and my iPhone 5S as soon as I'm done working, please do not assume that there is something wrong only and only with my device... either all the Z1s have horrible cameras or you just screwed up the camera algorithm which can be fixed... either way its on your part!
Again ME:
OK, so here they are:
---------------------------------------------
These are the samples I sent them:
8MP 1.534
8MP 2.257
20MP 1.534
20MP 2.257
iPh5S 7.0.3
If you guys do have the same problem as me (which you do!) please mention it here, Maybe this way they stop BS-ing me!

ara.armagedon said:
I was really bummed about the camera app and quality when I first bought my Z1 because it didn't deliver what I thought it would. But I figured what the hell I love the looks of this phone I also find the waterproofnessness(!) extremely useful, so it doesn't matter if the camera doesn't deliver what I hoped for, I can live with it, you know? but then the "update" came and it made the camera worse than it was before, so naturally, as every camera fanatic would, I got really mad! I tried a bunch of apps but they were no good I also tried the so called "Superior Auto" mode and it didn't really helped so I had no other choice but to call Sony Support Center for help.... And this is what I got so far:
Oct 30
ME:
I just bought the Z1 with software v. 14.1.G.2.257.The camera takes terrible and I mean terrible pictures,lots and lots of noise and artifacts even in auto mode which only takes 8MP pics.This is not what you hope for when you buy an expensive 20.7MP camera phone.I also have iPhone 5/5S and they take much much better pictures,even though their specs are inferior on paper. You should be ashamed...Am I gonna have to live withit or youregonna fixit?
THEM:
ME:
This is the same exact situation I'm in:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2501027
and come on what kind of an idiot contacts the costumer service before checking if the lens is clean?
Nov 9!
THEM:
ME:
Oh for god sake! This isn't a problem on my side... I'm actually in position of two Z1s one with 14.1.G.2.257 and the other with 14.1.G.1.534 both devices are absolutely clean by anymeans (software and hardware), I'll give you a comparison of the two and my iPhone 5S as soon as I'm done working, please do not assume that there is something wrong only and only with my device... either all the Z1s have horrible cameras or you just screwed up the camera algorithm which can be fixed... either way its on your part!
Again ME:
OK, so here they are:
---------------------------------------------
I'll upload the pics for you guys later today
If you guys do have the same problem as me (which you do!) please mention here, Maybe this way they stop BS-ing me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There seems to be a mixed bag in terms of this camera, majority of tech site reviewers have gotten good results with the camera. I am fairly certain(imo)there are dodgy batches of this phone floating about, just ask anyone who bought a z1 from India. Well anyway i don't have any issues with my z1 in terms of camera functionality and quality. The reason Sony support ask all these stupid questions, is they have a set of troubleshooting questions and no matter how stupid they sound they are going to ask them as this is part of their process, they have to rule out the simplest of things even if it doesnt apply to you. If you read throught the z1 forum, you will see a lot of threads, some saying the phone is amazing and others have shown users are not happy, now this could be down to software issues or hardware issues. In your case, if you have tried all the basic stuff like reflashing the software and what not then go and get a replacement and if you are still not happy get a refund.

First of all:
Dude, learn how tot use a phone camera, Z1 doesn't have a bad camera. It takes great pictures with the right settings. I'm sick and tired of people that probably don't know how to use a camera or maybe just love posting this kinda sh*t.
If you have a bad unit, in this case 2, ask for a replacement or something else before saying all Z1 cameras are bad.
Second:
Sending emails to a company with such language is really stupid, the person that gets your email is just human, you can be friendly to them.
Third:
Mods please delete this thread.
Sent from my Xperia Z1 using xda app-developers app

krabappel2548 said:
First of all:
Dude, learn how tot use a phone camera, Z1 doesn't have a bad camera. It takes great pictures with the right settings. I'm sick and tired of people that probably don't know how to use a camera or maybe just love posting this kinda sh*t.
If you have a bad unit, in this case 2, ask for a replacement or something else before saying all Z1 cameras are bad.
Second:
Sending emails to a company with such language is really stupid, the person that gets your email is just human, you can be friendly to them.
Third:
Mods please delete this thread.
Sent from my Xperia Z1 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with you, specially on second and third point.

krabappel2548 said:
First of all:
Dude, learn how tot use a phone camera, Z1 doesn't have a bad camera. It takes great pictures with the right settings. I'm sick and tired of people that probably don't know how to use a camera or maybe just love posting this kinda sh*t.
If you have a bad unit, in this case 2, ask for a replacement or something else before saying all Z1 cameras are bad.
Second:
Sending emails to a company with such language is really stupid, the person that gets your email is just human, you can be friendly to them.
Third:
Mods please delete this thread.
Sent from my Xperia Z1 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, the superior auto mode SHOULD be better then what it is. Tons of people will not get past the auto mode and a company should make sure it is up to par. It kinda sucks you have to go into settings to change them every time to suit the best situation if you just want to take a quick nice snap.
Completely agree with the rest though, the tone in your first message is insulting right away. How do you expect people to help if you start shouting at them,
Wait at least until the 3rd mail before giving up (because in all honesty, it IS extremely frustrating that very often the people answering your mail don't even seem to read it and just give some autoreply answer. The times I mailed support, explaining exactly the issue and steps already taken to resolve it only to get a 'have you tried resetting the device?' YES! That was the first point in my 'already tried' list.).

ara.armagedon said:
I'll upload the pics for you guys later today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yah, do that.
Make sure the originals are linked i don't want to see downsized images with no exif data.
Put them up either on dropbox, flickr or photobucket.
---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------
ara.armagedon said:
This is the same exact situation I'm in:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2501027
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could not make out much in that thread as the OP never provided originals.
The picture itself was a challenging one given the bakclighting issues. How well would other phones have compared in the same situation.
No frame of reference to come to any conclusions.

One Twelve said:
Yah, do that.
Make sure the originals are linked i don't want to see downsized images with no exif data.
Put them up either on dropbox, flickr or photobucket.
---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------
I could not make out much in that thread as the OP never provided originals.
The picture itself was a challenging one given the bakclighting issues. How well would other phones have compared in the same situation.
No frame of reference to come to any conclusions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
8MP 1.534
8MP 2.257
20MP 1.534
20MP 2.257
iPh5S 7.0.3

They're not publicly available. Change your folder settings on drop box mate

wezzel98765 said:
They're not publicly available. Change your folder settings on drop box mate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bad, sorry. They should be fine now

ara.armagedon said:
8MP 1.534
8MP 2.257
20MP 1.534
20MP 2.257
iPh5S 7.0.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does not work

btort1 said:
does not work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm logged out now and they're working fine, tried them on 3 different browsers

have you trie Pro Capture?
I get better photos. Sharper and more details inside
Maybe only @8MPX

ara.armagedon said:
8MP 1.534
8MP 2.257
20MP 1.534
20MP 2.257
iPh5S 7.0.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, i can see them now.
This is what you said
The camera takes terrible and I mean terrible pictures,lots and lots of noise and artifacts even in auto mode which only takes 8MP pics.This is not what you hope for when you buy an expensive 20.7MP camera phone.I also have iPhone 5/5S and they take much much better pictures,even though their specs are inferior on paper. You should be ashamed...Am I gonna have to live withit or youregonna fixit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I looked at the 8MP, .534 vs .257 and find the .257 to have more detail. Ths ISO for the .257 is at 600 vs 800 for .534
The 20MP have lower ISO of 400 and similar shutter speeds as the 5s.
Comparing the iphone pic & the .257 8MP, can anybody see what he means by lots of noise & artifacts ? Cause i cannot.
The pictures look sharp enough to me, so focus isn't an issue in either. Zooming in 1:1, there is a slightly better edge aronud the bag? with the iphone. But i cannot see why the 8MP .257 shot is a terrible one in comparison to the 5s.
The 5s shots are at ISO 300 and at 1/15s So they will be little less noisy.
So what is dissapointing you ? that the 20.7mp image does not look better than the 8MP one ? that it isn't much better than the 5s ?
Any times where the auto on your 5s does not get it right or is it always perfect.

The moment I use flash, the camera churns out horrible images. It's sad really, makes my Z1 camera photos look worse than anything else (white flash on one side of the image).

https://db.tt/E5Q5vWfs
My singl. Img 2.257

GPKrzychuXxX said:
https://db.tt/E5Q5vWfs
My singl. Img 2.257
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats an excellent photo, makes me wonder if it was taken with the Z1 lol

Gitaroo said:
thats an excellent photo, makes me wonder if it was taken with the Z1 lol[/QUOTE
]https://db.tt/OqngWREP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

thunderising said:
The moment I use flash, the camera churns out horrible images. It's sad really, makes my Z1 camera photos look worse than anything else (white flash on one side of the image).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's something blocking your Flash, mine is perfectly fine with flash
Sent by voldermort's nose

One Twelve said:
OK, i can see them now.
This is what you said
I looked at the 8MP, .534 vs .257 and find the .257 to have more detail. Ths ISO for the .257 is at 600 vs 800 for .534
The 20MP have lower ISO of 400 and similar shutter speeds as the 5s.
Comparing the iphone pic & the .257 8MP, can anybody see what he means by lots of noise & artifacts ? Cause i cannot.
The pictures look sharp enough to me, so focus isn't an issue in either. Zooming in 1:1, there is a slightly better edge aronud the bag? with the iphone. But i cannot see why the 8MP .257 shot is a terrible one in comparison to the 5s.
The 5s shots are at ISO 300 and at 1/15s So they will be little less noisy.
So what is dissapointing you ? that the 20.7mp image does not look better than the 8MP one ? that it isn't much better than the 5s ?
Any times where the auto on your 5s does not get it right or is it always perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is why I was already mad with the support team.
First of all, saying the photos differ because of the ISO while partially true is no excuse, because all the pictures were taken in the same lighting condition and the same focusing area. So the fact that the ISOs differ is actually a software weakness (specially if they differ in the same model, So please don't respond saying something like different lenses because of different phones and so on.)
Second if you really don't see what I'm talking about I'll try just this once to tell you what I mean:
See this again 20MP 2.257
This is the difference between a noisy and non-noisy! :
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
and in this case:

Thraxzzz said:
There's something blocking your Flash, mine is perfectly fine with flash
Sent by voldermort's nose
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is that even possible. I know how to operate a phone camera to not black the flash,
It only happens when I click under low light conditions. Some cheap ass Lenovo phone was churning out better photos than my flagship phone. I felt embarrassed to say the least

Camera/picture samples - before/after unlock

FWIW, since there's probably quite a few people concerned about the picture quality on unlocked phones, I did a simple comparison. One Z3C with completely stock/locked bootloader, and one Z3C rooted with unlocked bootloader.
Here are a few of the pictures. The first couple taken with Auto mode, the locked bootloader consistently came out much cleaner - especially in low light. Switching to 20Mp Manual mode, however, both phones took fairly comparable photos and the unlocked one actually did an ever-so-slightly better job focusing.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

I assume that using an alternative camera on our phone implies not using sony proprietary tecnology, so a test can be easily carried out on any phone regardless of the bootloader.
Am I wrong?

I suspect only the 8MP and lower modes trigger the post processing. That'd also be why the SCN modes are only available at 8MP and less.
That means 8MP manual mode.
Then if you dont have the DRM files, it never triggers and you just get whatever additional post processing stuff the camera app does.
In particular in low light mode it does pixel correlation (ie pixel binning) which works rather well IMO... heck even the 12800 ISO mode works. Turns black images into something visible, even if the quality is not exactly great

Interesting, thanks for posting the pics. It sounds like it's the software holding it back, maybe some backports or third party alternative might solve this?

Thanks for the comparisons! Are low light photos as effected in 20.7MP manual mode as they are in 8MP?

If we root without unlocking the bootloader and install an AOSP ROM, will we still get image quality similar to an unlocked bootloader one?

There is no installing of any ROM (except official) without unlock.
And yeah, every Custom ROM will not have the Sony postprecessing except if somebody is able to activate it without DRM and also port it.

Bäcker said:
There is no installing of any ROM (except official) without unlock.
And yeah, every Custom ROM will not have the Sony postprecessing except if somebody is able to activate it without DRM and also port it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the L Camera APIs? Will they help the unlocked bootloader's camera performance be similar to the one without unlocked bootloader?

darkgoon3r96 said:
What about the L Camera APIs? Will they help the unlocked bootloader's camera performance be similar to the one without unlocked bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We won't know until L lands and is available on devices!
In theory, you should be able to simulate camera performance sans-DRM keys by using another camera such as Google Camera. However not all camera apps are equal, so it's not really a 'fair test'. Should give you an idea first hand though.
This is a post I made yesterday which might help clarify the issue surrounding the camera and DRM (as per my understanding)
Scottland said:
My understanding is that with a custom/unlocked recovery, you'll lose the TA partition with DRM keys. So you'll lose out on anything that needs the DRM keys. If a root exploit is found, then you could use the standard ROM with root and not touch the bootloader/recovery/TA partition. But as soon as an update rolls out, you'll lose root again (and likely the exploit with it).
Backing up the TA partition means that you can restore it to stock (i.e. to sell or for warranty repair).
Again, as per my understanding - any AOSP/CM based ROM will lose any of the Sony proprietary software and features anyway, no different to Samsung or HTC in that respect. I remember having a HTC One (M7) last year where the camera was worse on CM because HTC used their own post processing software within their camera app.
In theory, it may be possible for someone to come up with a stock based ROM with root baked in that keeps some the Sony proprietary software etc, but this is unlikely I would say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

ragnorok161 said:
Thanks for the comparisons! Are low light photos as effected in 20.7MP manual mode as they are in 8MP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. I took some more comparison shots using different modes, and the unlocked phone consistently shows a bit more noise than the unlocked one using both auto, as well as manual modes.
That said, in normal lighting conditions, I am finding that Sony trends to overcompensate and many of the pictures from the locked phone are over sharpened when I zoom in.
When i get some time tonight, I will try to get some comparison shots using the stock android camera app using both devices.

Do I understand that right? I only get good pictures on a stock rom with sony camera app, since Google camera (or any other camera app) has no use for the DRM library?
---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 PM ----------
dew.man said:
Yes. I took some more comparison shots using different modes, and the unlocked phone consistently shows a bit more noise than the unlocked one using both auto, as well as manual modes.
That said, in normal lighting conditions, I am finding that Sony trends to overcompensate and many of the pictures from the locked phone are over sharpened when I zoom in.
When i get some time tonight, I will try to get some comparison shots using the stock android camera app using both devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you do your shots with Focal too? To see the difference between stock and third party app!?

spychodelics said:
Do I understand that right? I only get good pictures on a stock rom with sony camera app, since Google camera (or any other camera app) has no use for the DRM library?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No exactly. Initial results between the Sony camera and the stock/android camera were very comparable (at least with normal lighting). I'll try to get more specifics later tonight, but right now, I'm thinking the major difference lies in Sony's proprietary noise reduction algorithms for high-ISO/low light scenarios. Looks like their camera application does a very good job of pulling shapes/images out of low light conditions.
spychodelics said:
Can you do your shots with Focal too? To see the difference between stock and third party app!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by "focal"? I presume you're referring to the focus mode in manual settings?

Nope, im sorry, i meant to use a different camera app, like Focal.
I would really appriciate to see the difference
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.xplod.focal

dew.man said:
Yes. I took some more comparison shots using different modes, and the unlocked phone consistently shows a bit more noise than the unlocked one using both auto, as well as manual modes.
That said, in normal lighting conditions, I am finding that Sony trends to overcompensate and many of the pictures from the locked phone are over sharpened when I zoom in.
When i get some time tonight, I will try to get some comparison shots using the stock android camera app using both devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks dude, I really appreciate this. Please take alot of comparison photos - the more the merrier. And, if possible, also use different apps such as Focal or Google Camera as discussed above. Not meaning to put too much workload on you, but I seriously think that we'll be waiting for quite some time (at least months) before there's a new exploit available to root our phones with locked BL. Therefore, these comparison shots are just about the only way we'll be able to decide if it's worth it to unlock the bootloader now instead of waiting. I think you're one of the few lucky people out there with both a locked and unlocked Z3C available. Personally, I'm really dying for root and feel hamstrung every day without it, so if the quality loss isn't too severe, I'll probably go ahead and unlock the BL and never look back.

Thanks very much OP. Much appreciated. As others mentioned it'd be great to see more including the stock Google Camera for comparison!

More pics
Sorry guys - been very busy at work today so I didn't get any outdoor pics.
Looks like the Sony proprietary stuff is MOSTLY for the stock camera High ISO mode. Google camera and Focal pics come out very similar between the two phones. However, one or two of the shots do appear to have a bit more noise in the dark areas on the unlocked phone so their customization might go a bit deeper.
Here are a couple shots in very low light using the Google camera
Here is the same picture but using the Sony Auto mode. It really is amazing what Sony is able to pull out in those conditions (keep in mind this is without flash).
And now the same scene using the Google camera but with a flash
Lastly, here is a picture with normal lighting using the Focal camera. The thing that caught my attention here, is that even using a third party application, while the pictures appear very similar in overall quality, the locked phone seemed to do a slightly better job with the noise reduction in the darker/shaded corner.
That's all I have for now. Will try to get some more tomorrow with better lighting and more landscape/further objects. Unfortunately, time is very tight this week so I can't make any promises...

Oh, and here are some comparisons between the different cameras (Sony, Google, and Focal)
First from the locked bootloader
and next from the unlocked/rooted phone

It appears to me from the auto pics that in auto mode the z3 is using a high f-stop to force a very small focus range.
Does the z3 have an adjustable f-stop?
I have used cameras where you could set the f-stop and then the camera would auto set the ISO to adjust the exposure level. Can the z3 do that?

Well, wait, all of this is by definition in software, right? It's not like it's keeping the camera from catching an image a certain way. Since the hardware reacts the same with or without DRM, isn't it possible to fix it yourself? Add your own noise-reduction, keep it from oversharpening... That could even be preferable to a lot of people's tastes. Look at the whole situation around the Moto G's camera, and the switch for noise reduction they found and immediately turned and left off.

Great comparison OP. And yes, like you, I am completely floored by stock Sony camera's ability to capture shapes and colors in essentially complete darkness. Yes, there's noise (although they touch it up nicely I must say), but that's better than just blackness that every other camera captures under the same conditions.

Sony's Camera isn't great, but it could be worse...

We all give Sony a hard time for releasing flagship devices with mediocre camera performance. I personally can verify that my previous HTC phones (One mini, One S, and even the Ville aka MyTouch 4G) dating back nearly 4 years all had better color reproduction, white balance, indoor performance, and faster focus and shutter response. None of those were even considered flagship devices at the time of release. We assumed Sony's problem was the software, so many of us searched for 3rd party camera apps such as Google Camera, A Better Camera, Camera FV-5, etc... and some even claimed to get better results using these apps. I've tried just about all of them (free versions only) and never saw any dramatic improvement to make me replace the default camera app. I finally decided to compare shots side by side on a couple of my personal favorite camera apps and here's what I noticed:
The 3rd party apps over-exposed the scene with far too much flash, giving it that cold LED light look, and washing out some of the natural colors. But worst of all, they weren't as clear when zooming in as the default app was. Pay close attention to the can of WD40 in the back. Only the stock app makes the word "Directions" visibly clear. All photos were taken using Auto Mode at 8MP - the setting the average person will use daily.
Sample Photos In Order (from left to right):
- Sony Stock Camera App
- Google Camera App
- OpenCamera App
https://goo.gl/photos/ihkstAg95Ag8rybX7
I took a few comparison shots in scenes that I thought would cause the stock app to falter, but it kept coming through and beating the competition. For example, when taking a picture of a poster that was covered by a slight shadow, the stock app was the only app smart enough to use flash; thereby making the words of the poster much clearer. In another indoor scenario, the competition once again over exposed the scene with too much flash, washing out the colors again. I may post these photos later if you request them.
Moral of the story:
Compared to other smartphones (especially flagships), Sony's camera is simply one of the worst performers. <-----(This is a click-able link to the results of a test article) There is no argument here and someone from Sony needs to do something about it. But as for the stock Sony camera app, it appears to utilize the camera better than 3rd party apps can. So if you want to make the best of out our bad situation, stick with the stock camera app.

I agree that the camera on the Z3C is somewhat lacking.
Outdoors in good light it can produce some really nice photos (some of the time) although even in good conditions it still seems to make a mess of things on occasions. Indoors and low light it's just plain terrible. I've done a back to back comparison with my rather elderly SGS3 and in most circumstances the SGS3 knocks the spots off the Z3C.
The problem is marketing.
In order to produce compelling marketing material, Sony developed the 20MP sensor and put this in all their flagship phones. This is way too many MP for such a small sensor and as such the quality suffers badly in anything other than bright sunlight. Even when interpolating the image down to 8MP you still see way more noise than the equivalent true 8MP sensor and the details are mushed to buggery. I'd be happy for the resolution on smartphones to top out at 10MP, which should be enough for 4K video and multiple aspect ratios (not that I think 4K video from a smartphone has much use).

sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.

As a photographer, you of all people should understand that a camera phone is not likely to be used when taking serious photos. This is designed to be a point and shoot replacement for selfies, pictures of food, group photos of friends in a restaurant, etc... This phone's camera isn't a complete failure by any means, but it simply doesn't perform as well as phones from 2-3 years ago under the most basic condition (indoors). I'm just finding it difficult to explain why my $500 flagship phone takes overexposed, blurry photos when my old phones (none of which were even flagship models) did not.

Starlith said:
We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.

mad-marco said:
I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.

Starlith said:
I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.

PuffDaddy_d said:
I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.

and if you came from a Nokia flagship this difference is even bigger ....

Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already got several DSLR's thanks very much. I don't think that anyone is expecting DSLR like quality, in fact you seem to be the only person who has brought this up.
I think that what people would like is the the camera on Sony's flagship smartphones to be comparable with other smartphones, especially the ones that have the same sensor hardware!!! It's a disappointment that the 2/3 year old SGS3 produces superior photos than the current Sony flagships, the current Samsung 16MP cameras are vastly superior.

Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have completely missed the point of this thread. It has nothing to do with expecting DSLR quality from a camera phone. We just don't want pictures to look like they were taken from a flip phone from 2006 - which is what this camera looks like when taking photos indoors. A flagship phone needs a flagship camera, and Sony's image processing has left us without, while all other major manufacturers are using some form of Sony image sensor and getting much better results.
But as my original post indicates, the best photos I've been able to get from this camera are with the stock camera app. All others seem to fall short when viewed on a larger screen.

ray_J13 said:
Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to me the camera glass on her Z3C was a bit smudged... That would explain the haze.
And the small details on the Z3C look much better and cleaner at 100% zoom than on the Meizu, even if the Z3C was a bit out of focus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

Crewville96 said:
I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can upload the vids and couple pics. None of the pics are really the same for comparison since i was in the crowd at the concert though. But you can get a general idea.

PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my vids. One is from my old Droid Incredible 2 (2011, running GB) the other is from my Z3C (2014, running LP). I'll let you guys judge which vid is better.

That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.

PuffDaddy_d said:
That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, just cleaner and sharper overall. Thats the Droid Incredible 2 video (720 only as well, Z3C is at 1080 lol).

So the S7 camera performs better than the Z5/Z5P ? I can't stop laughing...

Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?

It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk

Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.

Well money talks. S7 just cant match Z1+ line. Take a look at original S7 full resolution photos. Photo IQ is awfull on the S7. Over-sharpening that creates awfull halos and contrast, to much texture detail, texture extraction that gives a gritty look and to much noise reduction that makes for a blurry image with lost detail and plastic look. S7 has borderline the bad CRT chromatic aberration look and reminds me of old cheap digital cameras.
I'll quote one of my other posts wher one can see that even in an unfair comparision that favors the S7 my Z1 just performs much better. Much better and if making things more even by choosing 2048x1536 for my Z1 photos and same or similar for S7 my Z1 just walks all over the S7. Z5 does no worse unless in SA or the NR goes wonky.
When I look at S7 photos in good and low light it just reminds me of the bad CRT "chromatic aberration" look. Great artistic value but the persons S7 destroys IQ beyond reparation. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/
I mean even the Z1 blows it out and Z5 even more. Look at this comparision which favors the S7 as the images are shown at 100% size which means my Z1 is showing a far bigger image aswell as in worse lighting conditions with far less photons in the ambient to capture (see shutter speed difference) yet it performs better. Would I scale it down to same size as the S7 it would be a brutal comparision leaving the S7 in the dust. One can choose 2048 pixel width to see this in the links.
Stock original photos, default camera apps.
S7 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25743187832/sizes/o/
Z1 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25516883060/sizes/o/
S7 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
Z1 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25019022984/sizes/o/
Might take some time some day with the Z5c and capture photos in same locations once the sun is about same (wild weather over here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And here are more S7 samples.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25208922064/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25404249180/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25021532094/sizes/o/
And here is low light.
Will check files once released here and compare CRC to see if they changed algorithms. As for the S7 I agree, it does moderately good but far worse than Sonys Xperia Z1+ line. The biggest issue on the S7 besides tending to go overboard with sharpening and noise reduction which smoothes out to much and gives a bad fake plastic look (often easily visible around fine-grain detail like branches and leaves) is that it also when post-processing brightens up the image by tweaking curves. Most software does this but should be catiously used to extract detail from low contrast areas. Samsung goes overboard often giving it the 'fake ISO' look where black turns grey. Xperia Z1+ phones give quite a bit better low light photos same ISO for ISO and shutter speed while not even having to resort to major curve tweaking just minor or barely any and it does it selectively in a often excellent way. I assume the BIONZ is really a power beast for such dedicated tasks but sensors in Sonys phones are just better even though older and they are coupled with great optics.
It's just now that Samsung is starting use similar tech that Sony already employed in their mobiles years ago. I think Iphone 6s also got a bit of it but it relies mostly on multi-frame photo composition to create higher ISO like the Nexus 6p HDR+ does. Xperia Z1+ also does this but only when doing ISO 6400 (atleast the Z1) else not. Problem is you need to keep scene static else you get ghosting and bluriness. Haven't checked it fully out for the Z5c though but it should do better.
I guess you could say the S6 gives more detail and less blur but it also has way to much curve tweaking as the S7 but just much worse for same low light situations. S6 just turns to a mess at ISO 1000+ and low light while S7 does better. Both S6 and S7 also automatically (atleast in auto mode) if stable does multi-frame capture in low light to create improved noise reduction. Why some S6/S7 photos at say ISO 1000 looks bad and others much cleaner. Scene has to be static though and mobile firm. Same concept you can find in ProCapture camera app and their noise reduction mode.
Photo example of the S7 post-processing and curves.
Without HDR enabled.
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
With HDR enabled.
Sony avoids this in most cases and dont go overboard like that keeping blacks deep and rich aswell as colors punchy and representation of captured scene is far better.
And a Z1 sample from manual mode 8MP, 1/8 ISO 3200. Little and smart use of brightening via the changing curves despite high ISO of 3200 keeping the blacks quite well, global contrast and colors punchy despite heavy tungsten lighting!
Manual mode, 1/8 ISO 1600 of same scene two days apart around same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?

Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?[/QUOTE]
Let me answer :
Are you able to drive faster in a Bentley than in a Renault even if you are a bad driver ?
Yes !!!
Same with photos quality (not photo skills)
I agree that the human factor is there but can not excuse all Sony conservative attitude plus Sony do not want to let 3rd party improve their lack of dev.
But still happy with my Z5 result... It is a phone and we do not have to expect the same quality as a Reflex

NJ72 said:
The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.

Xeon said:
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.

NJ72 said:
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well to be honest, SONY only brags about their camera performance in their devices.... This time in September they mentioned nothing but the 4K screen and the IMX300. No major change to the device design, software is close to stock android and the IP68 has been there for ages.
http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-z5/
See ? They are so proud of their camera that this is the only marketing card in their hands for now. As for lack of expertise, I really doubt but I can nothing but believe that they thought they nailed it when in fact it's still horrible in low light conditions.

The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi

FYLin21 said:
The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
One thing I noticed is that even Whatsapp camera looks awful. I understand that the pic is compressed and the post processing is non existent but on my Xperia Z the difference wasn't noticeable that much.

gm007 said:
Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but I tend to disagree. I dont think OEM release need google assistance. In fact SONY is very conservative when it comes to camera software. I bet they know how to unlock raw mode and compatibility yet they don't want to.
It's obvious that the post processing has been inconsistent across the Xperia line. A bit of trial and error if you want my opinion....
What you say about bad software is correct however unjustified. I can't accept it from an industry leader such as SONY.
OK the camera is almost perfect in manual mode if you want to go hardcore and adjust every possible value and mode for a snapshot but I don't want to spend 2 minutes for that :
Look at the difference between iPhone 6S and Z5 camera.... this lack of details is what makes me go nuts.

Xeon said:
This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has been zoomed a bit using "clear image zoom" which just oversharpens things. It could be fine if they just use something that rounds off the edges for up sampling, but you see a lot of jagged circular blobs throughout the edges. I had taken a few pictures of this bird standing there but the camera kept overexposing the scene. Then I brought the exposure down and tried taking a photo - the bird a still standing there the moment I pressed the shutter.
The only thing to get around no burst mode is using 4K video. You can capture 8MP stills while you film but sometimes it causes the video to stutter and it takes a long time to save them. The stills also look worse than the video itself - the contrast is lower with washed out colours. It's better to grab frames after filming but you'l need another app to do this and I'm not sure which one as I do it on my computer using Media Player Classic. You can also crop to 1080p which is better than using the digital zoom in the app - unfortunately the bitrate of 4K video is a bit low so you can see some artifacts when cropped to 1080p ...
Is the shutter lag due to software or hardware? it's hard to say. Low resolution photos from Facebook messenger can be taken instantaneously, but all the third party apps I've tried exhibit shutter lag - I think even worse than the stock camera app... and don't forget only 8MP works with third party apps.
If the images were downscaled to 8MP or something, they would be good compared to some other cameras but that defeats the purpose of having 20/23MP.
Imagine seeing the loch ness monster and you took a photo but the shutter lag means your photo doesn't show it because it dove into the water

I will give you a small example why sony is bad software wise,
In lollipop we had fingerprint scanner test in the diagnostic menu and the test was not working.
So instead to fix it in marshmallow they removed the test completely lol.

Xeon said:
Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.

danw_oz said:
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ironically their sales and marketing strategy is flawed to death and it's chaotic but they wanna do marketing they do it the wrong way.
Seriously they should start recruiting...

hawker_gb said:
It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say

Barthlon said:
post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say
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They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.

EQ2000 said:
They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
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Xeon said:
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
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Kinda hard to make out what you are reffering to but "disaster"? Z5 series applies to aggressive area based NR in low contrast areas, as for the rest the photo is quite good and natural looking. Certainly better than most S7 photos you can find of similar ISO, shutter speed and scenery type. Atleast the NR can be countered partially with texture detail and clarity filters to bring out contrast in smudged areas. S7 you cant do nothing to repair photos as they are beyond reparation.
Click on images to view them in Flickr default display size. Atrocious and beyond reparation. The Z5 IQ despite smudgy NR in low contrast areas is head and shoulders above the S7 IQ. Z5 looks to the DSLR side while S7 looks to the cheap old digital camera side.
S7. Atrocious, the borderline bad CRT chromatic aberration look. Like relief filter applied shifting pixels due to horrible post-processing and subpar sensor.
Z5. The area based NR problem is clearly visible yet it looks much more natural and better despite being taken in much worse lighting conditions as evident by shutter speed and postition of sun and shadows.
As for the highlights you made that is pretty much what I already noted though the left side is from lens problem, that unit has decentered lenses thus blurred sides, right and/or left. You can see that in S7 to depeding on unit. Such a unit should be replaced. And all cameras have to do some detail extraction in low contrast areas (shadowed/non directly lit areas) and thus wont be as detailed as lit areas.
Take a look at S7 photo with shadowed areas, see? Noisy, smudgy with blotches and horrible even though ISO is low. Atleast the Z5 smoothes it out mostly OK. (left and right side)
One more time! You see? (right side trees and bushes)
You still cant see it!? Well some more then!
To the right!
To the left!
To the left!
And all around! :laugh:

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