Database Users

Purplish hue on the camera.

I've seen varying degrees of the purple hue on people's cameras (the 5mp one, not the VGA), including my own. It seems worse when I'm inside. Is this a problem with the camera itself, or a software problem?

the atrix camera is really bad. all reviewers have shown the same quality in their pictures. i am reminded of the nokia e71, they promised they would fix it in software but they couldn't.
my guess is that it's the camera sensor itself, and it may be reduced (but not completely eliminated) with a software patch.
it would be a good idea to post this in the motorola forums. probably many people have done so already

I'm definitely going to be posting in the Moto forums. This is unacceptable. They had the power to have on the best smartphones on the market, but are going to start losing if they keep this up.

Any progress Here
Has anyone seen any movement or heard any news with regard to this issue? The camera is lame with this color issue. I was with a buddy and his Iphone camera beat the pants of this thing. I kind of felt jaded and jealous.

I had the same concerns but after some serious experimentaion I learned a few things...
1: The default camera app is 75% of the problem. The pupleish hue comes from a chronicaly bad auto white balance setting. This can easily be fixed in photoshop. The other solution is to download an app like camera360 which gives you control over white balance. This is not a hardware issue but is just too bad of an implementation to excuse. Camera360 has a free trial which will let you play with white balance so you can see what I mean.
2: the remaining 25% is that this camera is noisy in all situations. Even moderate daylight shots as a bit grainy. Don't expect the camera to get quite to the level of iPhone 4 which uses a higher quality backlit sensor. I have both phones and have compared. Noise issues are greater on the atrix no question. This isn't fixable except in post processing.
That being said. I carry the atrix on a daily basis and don't miss the iPhone 4 camera that much. Basically when you use camera360 or one of the several other very good camera apps you can fix most problems. Make sure you have the maximum lighting the shooting situation allows.
Other than that photoshop helps. Even my high end cameras (lumix LX3 and canon 5d) get the photoshop treatment. it offers white balance correction and serviceable noise reduction.

Picnova - you the man
That makes a huge difference. thanks for the recommendation

seriously this is a phone camera with two little led's for 'flash' and lights; clearly the cameras white balance settings are off; it appears to me that they are easily fooled (yet very sensitive to) differences in color temperatures, especially around MVL/fluorescent lamps. that is normally where your hue issue comes up. try it under some halogen lights and it does just fine. i think the AWB programming could benefit from a tweak; actually it is very sensitive to changes in color temperature, it just exaggerates the difference versus what your brain processes from your eyes; we automatically make a 'white' object appear 'white' in our minds; with any sensor/camera it is all software and it is not as dynamic and not intelligent. this indicates that the hardware is capable, but the software is lacking. for me the video mode is more useful really; i am loathe to drag around an video SLR or one of my HD cameras on random nights out etc. i would LOVE a hack/mod/app that let one manipulate the AWB settings, focus settings, and ISO settings manually for video. i dont use this camera other than for random stuff like friends or goings out without a real camera, which is very VERY rare. i own a media studio; i almost ALWAYS have at least a MagicLantern hacked T2i kit or XF305 in my trunk.
the sensor itself is tiny and not very good in the noise reduction department. if your lighting is good, the pictures will be good. 99% of people test and complain about low light situations when technically the real problem is they do not understand how to expose properly for the environment they are in. this is where camera360 helps, but could be improved with shutter speed and direct iso control. yes the iphone 4 has a backlit sensor, but still suffers from CMOS jello badly too. for what it is its fine.
day to day i work in a studio shooting a web series or tele adverts; i have 10 halogen fresnels and spots, diffused and direct lighting, aimed on set at any given time, and i guarantee you 99% of people that visit take HORRID shots by NOT knowing how or what they are doing, or how the camera works. a lot of this has to do with metering, which again the phone/camera system does not easily allow access to and i have found no apps to work with this.
but as a person intimately involved in the photo/video field, i must say for the price and the capabilities the camera is ok. actually i would like to see an android phone with an optical 1.2x zoom (for lens and sensor size this would be best for minimal distortion and maximum sharpness)/digital 2x (still technically at 720P resolution that way), 1080P backlit CMOS 1/16 single chip sensor with a glass 28mm-35mm equivalent perspective lens which is NOT coverage area (with a damn lens cover!), and image processing by nikon canon etc with some manual controls over basic functions; replace the useless point and shoot!
i would HAPPILY pay $1000 USD for such a device; double the thickness, double the weight, whatever. just give me the same image quality of a circa 2004 nikon D50 or canon digital rebel; the technology exists. the market exists. the software exists and now the hardware is MORE than capable of processing it properly. i have no point and shoot cameras; i have 7 digital SLR's (5 with HD video recording) and 4 1/3" 3CCD as well as 2 1/3" CMOS HD camcorders that i am used to full manual controls. I would leave the SLRs at home if there was any decent alternative in a mobile device.

emoose said:
I had the same concerns but after some serious experimentaion I learned a few things...
1: The default camera app is 75% of the problem. The pupleish hue comes from a chronicaly bad auto white balance setting. This can easily be fixed in photoshop. The other solution is to download an app like camera360 which gives you control over white balance. This is not a hardware issue but is just too bad of an implementation to excuse. Camera360 has a free trial which will let you play with white balance so you can see what I mean.
2: the remaining 25% is that this camera is noisy in all situations. Even moderate daylight shots as a bit grainy. Don't expect the camera to get quite to the level of iPhone 4 which uses a higher quality backlit sensor. I have both phones and have compared. Noise issues are greater on the atrix no question. This isn't fixable except in post processing.
That being said. I carry the atrix on a daily basis and don't miss the iPhone 4 camera that much. Basically when you use camera360 or one of the several other very good camera apps you can fix most problems. Make sure you have the maximum lighting the shooting situation allows.
Other than that photoshop helps. Even my high end cameras (lumix LX3 and canon 5d) get the photoshop treatment. it offers white balance correction and serviceable noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great info regarding Camera360...totally makes a world of difference (so far - just compared a couple of pics indoors between default camera app and camera 360).
What other options does the paid version add?

Sony's Camera isn't great, but it could be worse...

We all give Sony a hard time for releasing flagship devices with mediocre camera performance. I personally can verify that my previous HTC phones (One mini, One S, and even the Ville aka MyTouch 4G) dating back nearly 4 years all had better color reproduction, white balance, indoor performance, and faster focus and shutter response. None of those were even considered flagship devices at the time of release. We assumed Sony's problem was the software, so many of us searched for 3rd party camera apps such as Google Camera, A Better Camera, Camera FV-5, etc... and some even claimed to get better results using these apps. I've tried just about all of them (free versions only) and never saw any dramatic improvement to make me replace the default camera app. I finally decided to compare shots side by side on a couple of my personal favorite camera apps and here's what I noticed:
The 3rd party apps over-exposed the scene with far too much flash, giving it that cold LED light look, and washing out some of the natural colors. But worst of all, they weren't as clear when zooming in as the default app was. Pay close attention to the can of WD40 in the back. Only the stock app makes the word "Directions" visibly clear. All photos were taken using Auto Mode at 8MP - the setting the average person will use daily.
Sample Photos In Order (from left to right):
- Sony Stock Camera App
- Google Camera App
- OpenCamera App
https://goo.gl/photos/ihkstAg95Ag8rybX7
I took a few comparison shots in scenes that I thought would cause the stock app to falter, but it kept coming through and beating the competition. For example, when taking a picture of a poster that was covered by a slight shadow, the stock app was the only app smart enough to use flash; thereby making the words of the poster much clearer. In another indoor scenario, the competition once again over exposed the scene with too much flash, washing out the colors again. I may post these photos later if you request them.
Moral of the story:
Compared to other smartphones (especially flagships), Sony's camera is simply one of the worst performers. <-----(This is a click-able link to the results of a test article) There is no argument here and someone from Sony needs to do something about it. But as for the stock Sony camera app, it appears to utilize the camera better than 3rd party apps can. So if you want to make the best of out our bad situation, stick with the stock camera app.

I agree that the camera on the Z3C is somewhat lacking.
Outdoors in good light it can produce some really nice photos (some of the time) although even in good conditions it still seems to make a mess of things on occasions. Indoors and low light it's just plain terrible. I've done a back to back comparison with my rather elderly SGS3 and in most circumstances the SGS3 knocks the spots off the Z3C.
The problem is marketing.
In order to produce compelling marketing material, Sony developed the 20MP sensor and put this in all their flagship phones. This is way too many MP for such a small sensor and as such the quality suffers badly in anything other than bright sunlight. Even when interpolating the image down to 8MP you still see way more noise than the equivalent true 8MP sensor and the details are mushed to buggery. I'd be happy for the resolution on smartphones to top out at 10MP, which should be enough for 4K video and multiple aspect ratios (not that I think 4K video from a smartphone has much use).

sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
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Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.

As a photographer, you of all people should understand that a camera phone is not likely to be used when taking serious photos. This is designed to be a point and shoot replacement for selfies, pictures of food, group photos of friends in a restaurant, etc... This phone's camera isn't a complete failure by any means, but it simply doesn't perform as well as phones from 2-3 years ago under the most basic condition (indoors). I'm just finding it difficult to explain why my $500 flagship phone takes overexposed, blurry photos when my old phones (none of which were even flagship models) did not.

Starlith said:
We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.

mad-marco said:
I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.

Starlith said:
I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.
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Click to collapse
I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.

PuffDaddy_d said:
I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.
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Click to collapse
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.

and if you came from a Nokia flagship this difference is even bigger ....

Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
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Click to collapse
I've already got several DSLR's thanks very much. I don't think that anyone is expecting DSLR like quality, in fact you seem to be the only person who has brought this up.
I think that what people would like is the the camera on Sony's flagship smartphones to be comparable with other smartphones, especially the ones that have the same sensor hardware!!! It's a disappointment that the 2/3 year old SGS3 produces superior photos than the current Sony flagships, the current Samsung 16MP cameras are vastly superior.

Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have completely missed the point of this thread. It has nothing to do with expecting DSLR quality from a camera phone. We just don't want pictures to look like they were taken from a flip phone from 2006 - which is what this camera looks like when taking photos indoors. A flagship phone needs a flagship camera, and Sony's image processing has left us without, while all other major manufacturers are using some form of Sony image sensor and getting much better results.
But as my original post indicates, the best photos I've been able to get from this camera are with the stock camera app. All others seem to fall short when viewed on a larger screen.

ray_J13 said:
Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to me the camera glass on her Z3C was a bit smudged... That would explain the haze.
And the small details on the Z3C look much better and cleaner at 100% zoom than on the Meizu, even if the Z3C was a bit out of focus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

Crewville96 said:
I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can upload the vids and couple pics. None of the pics are really the same for comparison since i was in the crowd at the concert though. But you can get a general idea.

PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my vids. One is from my old Droid Incredible 2 (2011, running GB) the other is from my Z3C (2014, running LP). I'll let you guys judge which vid is better.

That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.

PuffDaddy_d said:
That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, just cleaner and sharper overall. Thats the Droid Incredible 2 video (720 only as well, Z3C is at 1080 lol).

Camera produces cold photos - very disappointed! Can it be fixed? White balance?

I just bought this phone, and I'm extremely disappointed in the camera. My wife has a note4 which takes great photos, which I've been using pretty much every day as we recently had a child (our first). My main reason for buying a new phone was to always have a good camera on hand for taking photos of our son. I hate big phones though, hence why I didn't buy the note4.
Anyway, after buying the z3c, it turns out that I hate the photos it takes They are all completely lifeless and cold. When I take a photo with the note4, what I see on the screen is pretty much exactly what I see in real life. With the z3c I can clearly see the difference right away (and it's not just the phone screen). I've tried experimenting with settings in manual mode as well, but I'm not having much luck. Granted I'm not claiming to know much about these things. I don't care if it's not the highest resolution or the sharpest details (or not at this stage at least), I just want some colors that looks like what I'm seeing with my eyes. I've gone back to using the camera from my wifes phone again despite my own phone only being a week old, which is a bit sad.
Is there anything I can do about this? I feel like there should be a simple adjustment somewhere, but I can't find it. The colors on the screen were horrid as well, but I've adjusted those by using the "white balance" settings (where I significantly increased red and green while leaving blue at 0). Is there a similar setting for the camera or is there a different app I can download where I can make this adjustment?
I just want to be able to use my camera...
Here is an example. I took two photos, one after the other, using the z3c and the note4. He moved a little bit so they are not identical, but zoom in on his face and you'll see what I mean. One of the photos has got some color and in the other he looks pale and lifeless. The color in the first photo seem to match what I am seeing in real life (he is half asian, so somewhat yellow skin tone) It's a bit hard to show, but you'll just have to trust me that the photo which has more yellow in it is significantly more accurate. This is not even the worst photo either, this one is probably passable if looked at in isolation, but just one example I quickly snapped just now. They are all like this (or often worse) and it has led me to not wanting to use my camera at all.
EDIT: as a new user I was not able to add a link, but as this is just to dropbox, I hope it's OK that I present it like this. You will have to piece it together if you want to view it:
www dropbox com/sh/vb68vqquykxj13m/AAArXwsdSZHKdJCzz25Tu3Qxa?dl=0
Any suggestions on how I can fix this without having to manually post process the photos are much appreciated. I should note that I really love the phone in all other aspects so far, but the main reason I bought it was for the camera as mentioned.
EDIT: sorry, maybe this belongs in the questions forum. If so I apologize and feel free to move it.
EDIT: to clarify, I found what looks like a white balance setting, but it's only 4 preset modes. But maybe that is all we've got. I'll try and experiment with them and see if any produces better result than wb auto.
EDIT: those settings above seems to seriously mess with the colors, at least in current low light room I'm in. Despite loving the phone, I'm considering cutting my losses while it's still current and try to sell it In which case i would probably pick up a Samsung galaxy s6 instead, which should have an equivalent camera to the note 4. It's much bigger than I prefer though, and inflated price due to hype and being a new model as well

The s6 has a better camera in most conditions. That said the difference isnt that bad. On my screen both photos look very similar.
Anyway the usual thing, try in manual mode 8mp, slightly lower expo, multi, and adda tiny bit of clarity in google photos - seems to give best results on average

bilboa1 said:
The s6 has a better camera in most conditions. That said the difference isnt that bad. On my screen both photos look very similar.
Anyway the usual thing, try in manual mode 8mp, slightly lower expo, multi, and adda tiny bit of clarity in google photos - seems to give best results on average
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the best example, you probably have to zoom in on face to see the difference. I might try and take a better example photo, but basically I lose all yellow in his skin tone and all I get is white and red.
I'll try your suggestions as well. Thanks.

You'll see from my camera thread and others that the Z3 is simply a poor performing camera indoors. There's little you can do to fix it.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

PuffDaddy_d said:
You'll see from my camera thread and others that the Z3 is simply a poor performing camera indoors. There's little you can do to fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read your thread now, and it doesn't paint a very positive picture. I still don't understand why it's so bad though, especially since the hardware seems good. From my point of view, I would be OK if pictures are not sharp enough or not capturing as much details as they could, but the poor color replication is a deal breaker.
Do you know if there is any sign that they are working on improving the software? Maybe with the release of z4/z3+ they might release a software update applicable to z3 as well? I know I'm grasping at straws, but still. You'd think they'd try and fix it. If nothing else, it's embarrassing that all competitors are significantly better despite using sonys sensor. This should be their absolute strongest point, their ace card, and instead they are getting destroyed.

White balance is the key for my photos... Auto WB always produces unatractive photos. Cloudy, and sunny settings add some warmth to the photo.

tompab said:
I've read your thread now, and it doesn't paint a very positive picture. I still don't understand why it's so bad though, especially since the hardware seems good. From my point of view, I would be OK if pictures are not sharp enough or not capturing as much details as they could, but the poor color replication is a deal breaker.
Do you know if there is any sign that they are working on improving the software? Maybe with the release of z4/z3+ they might release a software update applicable to z3 as well? I know I'm grasping at straws, but still. You'd think they'd try and fix it. If nothing else, it's embarrassing that all competitors are significantly better despite using sonys sensor. This should be their absolute strongest point, their ace card, and instead they are getting destroyed.
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Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with you more. I read an article where someone managed to compare the display of the Z3 vs the Z3+ and noticed that the plus has a warmer tone. Probably still to early to know is the camera software has improved any though. Sadly, I've started to use filters on the shots that look too cold to help earn them up a bit... More of a workaround than a solution.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

tompab said:
I just bought this phone, and I'm extremely disappointed in the camera. My wife has a note4 which takes great photos, which I've been using pretty much every day as we recently had a child (our first). My main reason for buying a new phone was to always have a good camera on hand for taking photos of our son. I hate big phones though, hence why I didn't buy the note4.
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Click to collapse
I've got a Z1c(not Z3c) and S6 but I think I can share you some ideas here. Sony tends to like cold WB while S6 produces warm WB. Indeed, they both got pros and cons in my experiences bcoz Samsung is also easy to produce over-warm coast and sometimes not real good, it is just too warm, though in your case I admit this time warm WB got real better result.
If you want a smaller phone, you can consider the upcoming S6 mini(SM-G9198) with 4.6" 720P, s808, 2GB ram, 16GB rom, NFC, 16MP rear camera, 5MP front camera. Sony focus is just all bad(actually the image quality isn't bad though you can't compete it with Note4/S6) and Samsung is like 10 times better when you talking about the speed and focus part.

TheEndHK said:
I've got a Z1c(not Z3c) and S6 but I think I can share you some ideas here. Sony tends to like cold WB while S6 produces warm WB. Indeed, they both got pros and cons in my experiences bcoz Samsung is also easy to produce over-warm coast and sometimes not real good, it is just too warm, though in your case I admit this time warm WB got real better result.
If you want a smaller phone, you can consider the upcoming S6 mini(SM-G9198) with 4.6" 720P, s808, 2GB ram, 16GB rom, NFC, 16MP rear camera, 5MP front camera. Sony focus is just all bad(actually the image quality isn't bad though you can't compete it with Note4/S6) and Samsung is like 10 times better when you talking about the speed and focus part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be very interested to see how that 16mp cam performs, if its anything like the S5 or S6 I may very well convert. Especially if they get the nicer build of the S6 in too, Just please no glass back.

S6 build also means glass back. I have no problems with glass. I'm not too fond of the diplay, Pentile matrix means less subpixels (=less sharpness) and effective resolution similar to qHD. It's clearly visible (rubbih harpness/dottiness) and just bad for the money.
PuffDaddy_d said:
I couldn't agree with you more. I read an article where someone managed to compare the display of the Z3 vs the Z3+ and noticed that the plus has a warmer tone. Probably still to early to know is the camera software has improved any though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Z3+ takes warmer pictures indeed but there's even more digital noise reduction:
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majaczos said:
S6 build also means glass back. I have no problems with glass. I'm not too fond of the diplay, Pentile matrix means less subpixels (=less sharpness) and effective resolution similar to qHD. It's clearly visible (rubbih harpness/dottiness) and just bad for the money.
Z3+ takes warmer pictures indeed but there's even more digital noise reduction:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, I can't even see the difference in color tone between these photos. At most, I see that the plus didn't focus properly in this shot.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

PuffDaddy_d said:
Honestly, I can't even see the difference in color tone between these photos. At most, I see that the plus didn't focus properly in this shot.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here... its splitting hairs to say there is any difference in color tone. That could easily be randomness with the Z3 being warm in the next shot.

Look at the concrete. It's much warmer. Another pictures (from gsmarena):
Z3:
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z3/camera/gsmarena_015.jpg
Z3+:
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z3plus/camera/gsmarena_102.jpg

majaczos said:
Look at the concrete. It's much warmer. Another pictures (from gsmarena):
Z3:
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z3/camera/gsmarena_015.jpg
Z3+:
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z3plus/camera/gsmarena_102.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, yeah, the concrete does look warmer with the plus, but these are very obvious. Though, I question why it appears that so much time passed between shots. The sky is clear in one photo but is cloudy in the next. Overcast conditions will affect the white balance as well. Still a bit too soon for me to judge.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

Cronis said:
I will be very interested to see how that 16mp cam performs, if its anything like the S5 or S6 I may very well convert. Especially if they get the nicer build of the S6 in too, Just please no glass back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no much info yet so I can't tell about S6 Compact but we can make some safe guess here and probably quite close to the true specification.
1. Probably used the new ISOCell 16MP to save cost. We all know that S6 got two sensors which is Sony IMX240 and Samsung ISOCell. This time the ISOCell is improved and better than the one on S5, so it is a 2nd gen. It got better color during at low light while IMX240 got more details. On day time, both sensors are almost identical. Mine S6 got IMX240.
2. OIS is removed for cost.
3. Aperture down to f/2.2 or f/2.4 depending the price strategic
If Samsung willing to give it a f/2.2 then it is safe to say it is a killer for Z3c though Z3c will still own some advantages like waterproof and best battery life. Not sure about microSD card thing. Consider it got a powerful s808 so as a small flagship, very possible to own a f/2.2 aperture.
https://shopmeenova.appspot.com/st/p/mrg2.html
I use this otg to solve my storage problem on S6.

Aperture eans nothing without sensor's size. Z3 can have higher aperture because IMX220 one of the biggest sensors on the (mobile) market right now.
We know nothing about the S6 mini, SM-G9198 sounds like SM-G9098's replacement:
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/samsung-sm-g9098-1608

majaczos said:
Aperture eans nothing without sensor's size. Z3 can have higher aperture because IMX220 one of the biggest sensors on the (mobile) market right now.
We know nothing about the S6 mini, SM-G9198 sounds like SM-G9098's replacement:
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/samsung-sm-g9098-1608
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it is impossible to be the next G9098 bcoz it got only 3.7" size while G9198 is 4.6" with such powerful s808 cpu, they are in total different market segment.
Aperture is real meaningful in any size bcoz my One S(8MP 1/3.2") got f/2.0 so I know about it and Iphone 5s/6/6+ got only 8MP 1/3" f/2.2 but they are doing very well at low light too.

TheEndHK said:
I think it is impossible to be the next G9098 bcoz it got only 3.7" size while G9198 is 4.6" with such powerful s808 cpu, they are in total different market segment.
Aperture is real meaningful in any size bcoz my One S(8MP 1/3.2") got f/2.0 so I know about it and Iphone 5s/6/6+ got only 8MP 1/3" f/2.2 but they are doing very well at low light too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe they want to reduce bezels? Or make it bigger? SM-G9098 has very powerful CPU as well, actually it was the most powerful back in 2014..
They're ok in low light situations (partially thanks to decent image processing) but you can't trick physics.

majaczos said:
Maybe they want to reduce bezels? Or make it bigger? SM-G9098 has very powerful CPU as well, actually it was the most powerful back in 2014..
They're ok in low light situations (partially thanks to decent image processing) but you can't trick physics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
G9098 is 3.7" size while G9198 is 4.6", the different is big enough because there is no 4.6" size flip phone becoz when you put a 4.6" screen together with a physical keyboard, the phone will be very fat and large and customer will end up prefer to get a Note4/5 instead with similar size. But I like the good old day flip phone style, actually I want to see more coming out.

Thanks for all the help guys. Just thought I'd give an update if anyone is interested.
I still really dislike the z3c camera and was considering selling the phone and picking up a galaxy s6. I do however like the other aspects of the z3c, so I ended up buying a proper camera instead. I can use my wife's note4 for a quick snap if I don't have my camera nearby. It's a compromise, but I think it made more sense.

GSMArena does a blind survey of cameras

http://www.gsmarena.com/iphone_6s_galaxy_s6_xperia_z5-review-1329p2.php
Xperia Z5 took top honors, and the ranking look more like the Dxomark ranking

I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?

@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.

schecter7 said:
@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! After looking at your pics, I also went back to Tim's 20 MP vs. 8 MP comparison pics.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22126137922/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21515893794/in/photostream/
If you look at the EXIF info, they both used the same shutter speed, but the 8 MP used a higher ISO. Better exposure and less noise, so 8 MP mode is better for low light, as Tim has shown. Tim also waited for the tripod symbol for his 20 MP night shots.
So my question is this: Does the tripod symbol show up for non-night scenes? Like in moderate to bright light? It seems to me the Z5 has two AF modes - fast vs. slow AF. Fast AF is super fast, but only good for capturing a specific subject (and tends to blur the background). Slow AF does full scene analysis and takes longer. It would explain why people are getting such wildly varying results with the Z5.
Anyone wanna test and see? Please?

I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.

schecter7 said:
I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?

joe_dude said:
Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol

schecter7 said:
Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:

joe_dude said:
Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe

schecter7 said:
Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I think the ZU was the best phone of all time (when it came out). On light use, I've gotten 4 to 5 days out of it on a single charge. And Kitkat 4.4 and Lollipop 5.1.1 have been rock solid. If there were a Z5 Ultra (or Z6 Ultra), I'd get it in a heartbeat.
Anyway, I should be able to do some testing with the Z5 and a G4 shortly (yea!), but I don't have a lot of free time, so I'm gonna try to grab a bunch of shots and analyze them later. Oh well, RL comes first.

Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161

chesterr said:
Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, a fully unlocked camera would be really cool. Well, for us geeks anyway. I think Sony's simplified manual modes are still not simple enough for the average consumer. But that's a problem with the average consumer, not the phone. xD
As for low light performance, let's see how it does in comparisons using the default 8 MP SA. Even if the tests don't adjust for its 24mm lens, I think it'll do a lot better than in 23 MP mode.

If things go well I might have my Z5 next week.
And do some proper testing with Z5 and Z2 which I know really well since I have it for over 1,5 years.
I should do a proper comparison. All the questions will be answered.

joe_dude said:
I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.

TheEndHK said:
Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.

EQ2000 said:
There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.

TheEndHK said:
I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
In any case, the Z5's flash is rated better by DXOMark than the S6. So it was obvious that the GSMArena's flowers flash test had some kind of problem. I mean just look at the pic - the Z5's pic was mostly of the night sky, while the S6 and 6S were mainly on the flowers. Because they didn't consider the FOV and framed the shot incorrectly, the Z5 detected it as a night scenery pic with flash fill, not a flash pic of flowers. There are examples from other reviews that show the Z5's flash working well and as expected.
Reviewers are expected to understand and be knowledgeable about the product they are reviewing. Would you ever buy a car magazine where the reviewers don't know what kind of engine is in the car, or how much gas it uses? Reviews that give false, misleading and/or incomplete information are bad for everyone.
---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------
EQ2000 said:
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:

joe_dude said:
The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:
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Click to collapse
Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.

joe_dude said:
Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
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Click to collapse
I'm going to buy Z5c today(not sure, but most probably, if I could find a cheaper one for sales) and let me see how well the camera. Actually, I think it is worthless to discuss the camera before any big updates.

EQ2000 said:
Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.
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Click to collapse
No, I'm still playing with SA. As much as I want to fiddle with the camera, I'm gonna have to cut the experimenting short to get back to other RL things. Sigh. But thanks for the suggestion... I'll keep in mind!
FYI, I did more analysis on the IFA photo you had posted. Believe it or not, I think the Z5 was correct with the exposure. Look closely at the pics - in the other two pics, the model was over-exposed. In the Z5 pic, she had a nicely balanced colour and brightness. The other phones did not do face detection, so measured the exposure based on the entire frame, and not on the model. Since the pic was primarily of the model, the Z5 took the picture as it had been intended.
This is part of the problem - we assume if the Z5's pic looks different, it is "incorrect". I'm starting to understand SA tries to do a lot, although sometimes it will guess incorrectly. But I think Sony needs to tweak SA to work better/more consistently.

Comparative study of the Xperia Z5's (moderate) low-light performance ;)

Background
While the Z5 has demonstrated that it can take good daytime photos and excellent video (thanks to its closed-loop actuator), low-light performance has been a concern, due to a lack of OIS and its smaller pixels.
I had the opportunity to borrow an LG G4 to test low-light conditions with the Z5. Testing took a while, as I needed to understand the different scene selections of the Z5's Superior Auto mode. I chose two classic, well-known, posters for the basis of the analysis: Star Wars - The Empire Strikes Back and Breakfast at Tiffany's. The posters feature both artwork and text, which should provide a good mix of characteristics for comparison. Also, the posters can easily be found online, so no reference photos were necessary.
Test conditions
The SW:ESB poster was lit from a single, overhead, incandecent light bulb (60 watt), which was roughly 10 ft/3 m away. The Breakfast at Tiffany's poster had no nearby light source - the light comes from the next room over 20+ ft/ 7+ m away.
All photos were taken in automatic mode for both phones. The Z5 was set to 8 MP in 16:9 ratio. I had tried set up the photos to look as similar as possible.
Camera setup
The SW:ESB night pics were taken while sitting down. The Z5 photos are as follows:
a) Night mode icon (i.e. moon icon)
b) Night mode icon + tripod icon
c) Night mode icon + tripod icon, phone holder stabilized (not hand-held)
The Breakfast at Tiffany's pics were taken while standing up, with arms in an elevated position. This is was due to the fact that the poster was mounted higher on the wall. It should represent the Z5's worse case scenario, as there was no way to stay completely steady due to the awkward posture and poor lighting.
Note: I had to re-take the Breakfast at Tiffany's photo, as I discovered that the initial photo had moved the focus to the top of the poster, due to face detection. I manually adjusted the focus rather than cut off Audrey's elegant face. When face detection icon was not on screen, the low-light icon (i.e. candle icon) would come on.
Link to photos (7-zipped):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Put-ePeAktZXE4YkxpNmhmWUk
The photos have not been edited in any way, other than to rename the files. I will leave the photos up for a couple of weeks. If you are reading this post after November 2015, and would like a link to the pics, please send me a PM.
Conclusion
OIS definitely helped with the low-light pics. The difference in detail was due to blurring, not MPs as far I could tell. In better lighting conditions or when stabilized, the Z5 and G4 had the same level of detail. The G4 pics became more and more "washed out" as the light level dropped, which was probably due to its smaller sensor.
Kids vs. stills: For quick snaps of people in moderate-to-low lighting, the Z5 was better, due to face detection. OIS couldn't do much to help. G4 had a lot more blurred photos, but when it wasn't blurred, the quality was good.
So why choose the Z5 (without OIS)? For the video recording. Once you've tried taking FHD videos with the Z5, you'll probably never go back to using OIS. Try it in the store... take a walk, jump up and down, shake it all around. It's pretty dang amazing.
Anyway, I hope the pics and the comparison were helpful.
Cheers!

Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?

schecter7 said:
Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?
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Gah... I don't have the G4 to test with anymore. I didn't say it was "dinner by candle light". But I'll change the title a bit.

Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'

schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
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Click to collapse
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?

schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/

bloodfire1004 said:
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?
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Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
joe_dude said:
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.

schecter7 said:
Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.
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Click to collapse
I see. Thanks!

Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.

TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
Click to expand...
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Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.

bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.

bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.

EQ2000 said:
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me Sir. Do you actually know what are you speaking? You always blame S6 got strong noise reduction but when you found noises there you also said that S6 is too bad to has noise.
Sony is all good in your mind even there are indeed more flat area in photo but you'll just think that some noises to simulate fine grain so it's all good.....
To be honest, I've also played a lots of video stuffs, I was a video lover. The film grain isn't real using in this way. In the old days video encoding technologies were not yet mature, the encoder did remove too much things from the source and people was trying to apply some noises in flat area to fraud human eye but this method should not use again in recent year. Some others were trying to simulate old Film noises for special purpose though.
The environment is total stable and it won't change the result after 15 - 20mins like day time so it is meaningless to mention about this, I'm not only focusing to take photo because my friends whatsapp me. Furthermore, the Z5c is freaking hard to get good result in such low light condition, some scenes were actually been taken 4 to 5 times to try to get one with good result. S6 was almost all done in one shot.

TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While an instructive and very interesting comparison, we do loose a bit of something by dealing with differing Fields of View. Some of the loss of detailing that you might otherwise put down to the sensor or software is actually far more about the focus of the lens on the sensor. To see what the detail reproduction is more accurately, we could do with seeing the two framed identically (IE, taking half a step nearer with the Z5 when taking the shot to correct for the different lens).
While I hate to put you to more trouble, could you have a go at this at all? Thanks

TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
<Text removed>
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, Hong Kong... been there several times. Sorry, but I hate to say it, the video quality on the S6 was not very good. Maybe when standing still it's good, but as soon as you started panning, the video was jittery. In FHD, the Z5 was completely smooth. In 4K, both videos were jittery.
If you're going to critical of the Z5, you should be at least as critical about the S6's poor video performance. You live in HK... a fast paced city. Hold it up and walk around with the crowd, take it on the bus, go up and down the subways stairs. Don't use the Z5 and take video like it's an S6 - judge it on its own merit. If you've ever tried to keep up with a child and record video, you'd know what I mean!
Thanks for the vids and photos... I'll check out the photos later.

TheEndHK said:
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.
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Click to collapse
Okay, I've gone through the pics, comparing both sets of pics side-by-side. First thing I noted was that a few of the Z5 pics were actually less blurry than the S6. LOL! I think I could have done better with the G4.
At 100% size, the Z5 and S6 had nearly the same level of detail across the pics, except for a few pics where either the S6 or Z5 was clearly blurred. The Z5 had smaller text because of the FOV, but it wasn't any harder to read.
I thought the S6 would be the clear winner with OIS, but the pics look very close in quality. Z5 should have slightly better colours, but I can't tell without neutral reference pics. I think you should have spent more time stabilizing the S6. From your pics and video, I'd choose the Z5, since the only thing that's clearly better from the two sets was the Z5's FHD video. xD

Now that I've had the Z5 for a couple of weeks, here are my thoughts:
Here on XDA, we tend to get overly technical (no, really?), so I've been thinking about how a "normal" person would decide to get and use the Z5. I bought the Z5 based on early impressions of its video performance and technical details of the new camera system (dat closed-loop actuator). After taking some family vids running around the house, I'd say it works as advertised.
But it was my SO's reaction (a non-geek) that was more telling. She was curious how the videos would turn out, as I barely paid attention to the phone while it was taking videos. She was impressed and commented that it was so smooth that it looked "professional". As any family man knows, having the "other half" onboard with a tech purchase means life is good! Heh!
The photo quality? Frankly, she didn't notice much difference between the Z5, G4 or even my old Z Ultra. The G4's OIS didn't help much for impromptu pics of people. I had plenty of blurred indoor shots of moving faces with each phone. The Z5 did try harder with face detection and scene selection to get good pics, while the G4 was basically a straight dummy point-and-shoot. The G4's strength is in its manual mode, and in quick snap situations, there was no time to play with the settings. Ironically, I caught some of the best moments - not talking about colour or details - from the Z Ultra, as it was the camera I was most familiar with. LOL!
The Z5 is now my go-to camera for videos. I think anyone who wants to take good family or vacation videos (or even vloggers), the Z5 is probably the best choice for a phone. Personally, I'd still take a real camera on vacations for better pics and optical zoom. Gawd, nothing is more annoying than taking a pic of something and have it show up the size of a pinhead because I couldn't zoom in.

Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/

schecter7 said:
Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/
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Good shots and a good example piece that demonstrates that you can get very good night shots from the Z5. I especially like the carriage.
As is my way, I've been looking through Flickr at S6 shots that random people have posted and have come across images like https://flic.kr/p/A14UVf and https://flic.kr/p/ytEfJq - both of which are noisier than a great many night shots and indoors night shots I've taken with my Z5. These are not isolated examples.
Not very scientific, I know, but it's evidence that getting good results is as much about the person behind the camera as it is about the camera itself. Those S6 shots aren't really any better than anything that the Z5 could produce: detail is relatively similar (though a little better with the S6, probably) and noise is higher. Compare that bar shot with one of mine in MUCH worse lighting (so much darker than the image produced): https://flic.kr/p/AHaxNj . Sure, the detail is smudgy but it is there and there is far less noise, to boot. Not saying that my image is perfect - anything but - but seeing the S6 bar shot above (Full of very ugly noise in an environment with many more light sources) makes me wonder just how much better the S6 would've handled that scene, if at all.

Some of my initial comparative shots.
Just my first day with Z5, and the shots are in difficult conditions sometimes, on purpose.
The Zoom is ok considering it was bad lighting.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsknZUGYc