Modify PSU - Battlestations

Hi,
Im building a small factor PC as a projekt/hobby. Its for fun and Will be sold or given to a relative when finished.
The case is an old Packardbell with the measures: 35cm x 25cm x 9cm. In it ive put:
Mobo: ASUS H81M-R mATX
CPU & Cooler: i7-4770, Arctic Alpine CO
CD/DVD reader: old HP standard size.
Ram: 2 x 8GB Samsung 1600MHz
Storage: 500GB Seagate Barracuda 3.5 Inch (thin modell) and 480GB SSD Toshiba 2.5 Inch.
GPU: MSI GTX 1050 Ti Low profile(on its way)
Ive tried fit everything in the case(Still waiting om GPU). Yes it all fit after some Magic(cussing involved).
The real problem comes with the PSU. The original PSU for The case is 220w which is insufficient. Ive figurer i need at least 350w which ive found. However it sound like an jet engine.
This PSU i a ACBEL API4FS40, measures: 30cm x 8cm x 4cm so it fits perfect. It has two fans, One intake and One outtake. Three fans has an CFM of 18,67.
Now to the problem. I want to chance these fans for something quiet. Noctua 40mm is what came to mind BUT these Noctua fans only have a CFM of slightly over 5.
Will this chance work or are the Noctua fans simply to weak?
I think this PSU originally is a server PSU and thus the extrem cooling. Would it need the the same amount of cooling for desktop use?
I can upload som pictures of the build itself if it intresse you. All thoughts or experties is welcome.
Sincerly
Nathan

Neiten said:
Hi,
Im building a small factor PC as a projekt/hobby. Its for fun and Will be sold or given to a relative when finished.
The case is an old Packardbell with the measures: 35cm x 25cm x 9cm. In it ive put:
Mobo: ASUS H81M-R mATX
CPU & Cooler: i7-4770, Arctic Alpine CO
CD/DVD reader: old HP standard size.
Ram: 2 x 8GB Samsung 1600MHz
Storage: 500GB Seagate Barracuda 3.5 Inch (thin modell) and 480GB SSD Toshiba 2.5 Inch.
GPU: MSI GTX 1050 Ti Low profile(on its way)
Ive tried fit everything in the case(Still waiting om GPU). Yes it all fit after some Magic(cussing involved).
The real problem comes with the PSU. The original PSU for The case is 220w which is insufficient. Ive figurer i need at least 350w which ive found. However it sound like an jet engine.
This PSU i a ACBEL API4FS40, measures: 30cm x 8cm x 4cm so it fits perfect. It has two fans, One intake and One outtake. Three fans has an CFM of 18,67.
Now to the problem. I want to chance these fans for something quiet. Noctua 40mm is what came to mind BUT these Noctua fans only have a CFM of slightly over 5.
Will this chance work or are the Noctua fans simply to weak?
I think this PSU originally is a server PSU and thus the extrem cooling. Would it need the the same amount of cooling for desktop use?
I can upload som pictures of the build itself if it intresse you. All thoughts or experties is welcome.
Sincerly
Nathan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This PSU is designed for high air flow due to its compact size. I would not recommend to change the fans to weaker ones. But maybe you can install another PSU?

strongst said:
This PSU is designed for high air flow due to its compact size. I would not recommend to change the fans to weaker ones. But maybe you can install another PSU?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is to fund One that fits. I only got clearence for maximum of 30cm x 9cm x 5cm

Ive now realised that it does exist a ton of PSU with the right measurements. BUT they all have 40mm fans.
I din a calculation with the formula:
P = p*Cp*q(T1-T2)
If i use these assumptions:
PSU efficiency is 80% then it generates 70w heat.
The intake temperture to be 30 degres Celsius.
CFM of slightly higher then 5
I get that under full load, the Noctua fans Keep the PSU at 54 degres Celsius.
That should be enough right?

Neiten said:
Ive now realised that it does exist a ton of PSU with the right measurements. BUT they all have 40mm fans.
I din a calculation with the formula:
P = p*Cp*q(T1-T2)
If i use these assumptions:
PSU efficiency is 80% then it generates 70w heat.
The intake temperture to be 30 degres Celsius.
CFM of slightly higher then 5
I get that under full load, the Noctua fans Keep the PSU at 54 degres Celsius.
That should be enough right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The form factor does not allow other fan sizes hence all is designed with those fans and the defined air flow due to the fact, that nobody sits next to the PSU like the ones for PC 's
You can try of course. Either the psu will throttle down or components will be damaged.

strongst said:
The form factor does not allow other fan sizes hence all is designed with those fans and the defined air flow due to the fact, that nobody sits next to the PSU like the ones for PC 's
You can try of course. Either the psu will throttle down or components will be damaged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it should be enough. What ive read it seems that server PSU tries to have a Stable temperature between 20-40 degres Celsius. Probobly becuase they have several in a small space right next to eachother.
Ill update when ive built and stresstested the PC.

those fans and the defined air flow due to the fact, that nobody jiofi.local.html sits next to the PSU like the ones for PC 's

Late reply but it worked out fine had it sitting for about 30min with Furmark and CPU burner to stresstest the pc and the maximum wattage drawn from the outlet was 122.
Sold it to a friend of mine who is pleased. Yes we were gaming for a while when i dropped it off to try it out and he has now had it for a couple of months, no issues has accurd.
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Theres a dvd reader that took up al the space left in the first picture and i had to do a cut out on the top for the gpu.

Related

Do I have a freak HD2?

My HD2 will run stable clocked at 1.536Ghz; The maximum frequency allowable by SetCPU.
I don't remember HD2's normally running this fast. Not saying it hasn't been done just saying I remember people having problems past about 1.2Ghz. My last HD2 could barely break 1.1Ghz.
You have read on here about someone else who overclocked about that speed and their phone is now a nice paper-weight?
fred_up said:
You have read on here about someone else who overclocked about that speed and their phone is now a nice paper-weight?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure didn't @[email protected]! Do you have a link?
FireDemonSiC said:
My HD2 will run stable clocked at 1.536Ghz; The maximum frequency allowable by SetCPU.
I don't remember HD2's normally running this fast. Not saying it hasn't been done just saying I remember people having problems past about 1.2Ghz. My last HD2 could barely break 1.1Ghz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you will have a freaky-smelling-of-fried-mobo, very soon after running it at that speed.
matt
OCing 1st gen of snapdragon which use higher wattage and scaling to 1.5mhz is bad bad idea. Make stable profile for your mCPU with SetCPU with max: 1.2mhz/avg: 768mhz/idle: 640mhz you wont have any problems. Had no issue with HD2 OCed 24/7 for months with LeoCpuSpeed back when it was out. Just use common sense and don't OC if you don't need it.
Wow/ Thanks for all the words of warning guys.
Is this an issue with increased heat due to the higher wattage draw? Because one thing I have noticed strange about this HD2 is it seems to run alot cooler than my last one. My last one would get as hot as 104F. This one I can barely get to top 90F and a cool to the touch back of the phone confirms that.
Well more current = more heat, as its basically supplying more to scale the frequency. But my question is what is it that you do on your end that needs 1.5ghz OC? Top of that on HD2 thats insane, don't say you are gaming.
LOL not at all.
When you've been dabbling in overclocking since you were 14 and have gone as far as phase change cooling, you have an appetite to push things to their extreme limits.
I use to be like that lol held records in extreme overclocking forum but for my usage I hit my limit with quad core and stopped as any upgrade from then on for me is overkill as thats another matter not subjected to this forum.
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Code:
O/S: openSUSE 11.2 (Linux 2.6.31.12-x86_64)
Case: APEVIA X-Plorer Metal Case (w/Side Window-Black LCD Temperature Display)
PSU: A-POWER AK 750 WATT ATX (20+4-pin w/SATA & PCIe)
Mobo: Asus M4A78 Pro (AMD AM2/AM2+ 780G/SB700)
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition (Deneb 3.0GHZ 45NM 125W)
MEM: 4x2GB OCZ Gold DDR2 SDRAM 800 (PC2 6400 1.8V 5-5-5-18CL)
GPU: GIGABYTE Radeon HD4350 512MB 64bit GDDR2/800MHZ (650MHZ 80SPU)
HDD: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 250GB PATA133/UDMA6 (8MB 7200RPM 9.4MS)
DMR0: 2x Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB SATA2/3.0Gbps (16MB 7200RPM 8.9MS)
DMR1: 2x Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA2/3.0Gbps (16MB 7200RPM 8.9MS)
NSS: 2x Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB SATA2/3.0Gbps (32MB 7200RPM 8.9MS)
ETH: Intel PILA8460C3 PRO/100 S Desktop (PCI-RJ45 10/100Mbps)
As you can see this server has been completely dismantled maybe when I have sometime ill bring this FServ online as I usually use to host 50k users. I was one of the 5 "HyperNode". Use to pull 3.5-4TB bandwidth my ISP was pissed as I had to build custom router/RAN server which ran on special ITX system p4 3ghz, 2gb ddr2 pc2700, 120mb pata just to cope with the high level traffic. Was around 3.2-3.3K tcp callback per sec and 3.5-4k udp callback per sec. So you could see how my ISP felt lol been offline ATM for close to year now.

A CPU test between the evo and shift

I have a mp4 movie file that is 420.03 MB on both phones. The evo is running 2.2 sprint lovers (I don't know if it's tweaked or not) and the shift is running 2.2 stock rooted. The evo has a class 2 card and the shift has a class 6. I don't think in this test that it would be a factor. I know that I should be running stock rooted with the same class speed card as the shift on the evo. Anyways, I used root explorer to zip the movie file and timed it with ultrachron stopwatch.
The results are :
Evo 6'15"42
Shift 6'11"36
The evo is at 1ghz and shift is 800. Its not scientific and both aren't completely equal in environment but the results are interesting to me regardless. Anyone want to try this with another set of phones? I'd do it on my epic but I gave it to the gf to use.
I am guessing that this kind of test isn't favoring one chipset over another like the other benchmarking programs do.
I know 4 seconds isn't significant but it is interesting that the 800 beat the 1000.
herbthehammer said:
I have a mp4 movie file that is 420.03 MB on both phones. The evo is running 2.2 sprint lovers (I don't know if it's tweaked or not) and the shift is running 2.2 stock rooted. The evo has a class 2 card and the shift has a class 6. I don't think in this test that it would be a factor. I know that I should be running stock rooted with the same class speed card as the shift on the evo. Anyways, I used root explorer to zip the movie file and timed it with ultrachron stopwatch.
The results are :
Evo 6'15"42
Shift 6'11"36
The evo is at 1ghz and shift is 800. Its not scientific and both aren't completely equal in environment but the results are interesting to me regardless. Anyone want to try this with another set of phones? I'd do it on my epic but I gave it to the gf to use.
I am guessing that this kind of test isn't favoring one chipset over another like the other benchmarking programs do.
I know 4 seconds isn't significant but it is interesting that the 800 beat the 1000.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a second generation processor, for the 50th time, it's faster and more efficient than the Evo's.
Once again since no one seems to understand. Clock speed is irrelevant. How much the processor can do in x amount of cycles is the deciding factor.
The newer Gen processors are more efficient and run a slightly better architecture.
So why compare old Gen against new Gen?
Sometimes people are just so blind because companies have brainwashed them. Its like buying a amplifier because it says OMG 2000 Watt printed in big bold letters on the top, when it can't even produce 400. But people still argue with you about it.
That's funny... the amplifier test is a good comparison. I used to sell electronics, and you'd be surprised how hung up a customer can get on statistics like that. Watts can be important, but are far from the whole story. I used to run 6 speakers in my car off of a Rockford Fosgate Punch 45.2, 3 per channel, wired in series, not parralel. That's a 12 ohm load, so each speaker was getting something line 7 watts if you go by the numbers. But it was loud as hell with little to no distortion. meanwhile this guy I worked with was running a "Rockwood Metalgate" Amp, rattling the whole damn neighborhood with something like 1,000 watts of pure distortion, and he was absolutely convinced he had the best car stereo around...
It's like this you have 2 guys same size and weight, one guys 80 and ones guys 20, the guy who's twenty is lifting 100 pounds and the guy who's 80 is lifting 80, why because the younger guy is newer, more advanced......and with the amplifier analogy, I have a really good stereo in my car, watts mean nothing when using the numbers you used, its RMS that matters the max watts mean absolutely nothing...my car rattles like crazy...inside the car is a whole different story, clean and clear, until you actually hear a system on the inside, what it sounds like on outside is no comparison, anyways I digress
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Yup newer processor here are some benckmarks of my Evo rooted and my sis stock nothing special I just ran then (I knew the result tho )
Evo
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Shift
If you can see I run the test at the same time
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
iitreatedii said:
It's like this you have 2 guys same size and weight, one guys 80 and ones guys 20, the guy who's twenty is lifting 100 pounds and the guy who's 80 is lifting 80, why because the younger guy is newer, more advanced......and with the amplifier analogy, I have a really good stereo in my car, watts mean nothing when using the numbers you used, its RMS that matters the max watts mean absolutely nothing...my car rattles like crazy...inside the car is a whole different story, clean and clear, until you actually hear a system on the inside, what it sounds like on outside is no comparison, anyways I digress
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's a big misconception. My example of about 7 watts per channel was RMS, but I was probably getting a lot more than that. Since I was running it into such a high impedance, I felt comfortable cranking the gain as far as it would go, and I had a crossover that boosted the pre-outs to 10 volts, so I'm sure I was pushing it pretty hard. Never had any problems though, I bought that Amp back in '97 and only replaced it a couple of months ago, not because it wasn't working well or anything, but because in my current car I've got a different setup wanted to replace it with a dedicated mono subwoofer amp.

[Ryzen Build] R7-3700x - GTX1080 - LEDS!!!!

Hello thought I would share some pics and my build specs....
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Specs:
Keyboard: CORSAIR - K70 RGB MK.2
Mouse: CORSAIR - DARK CORE RGB PRO SE
Case: CORSAIR - iCUE 220T
Motherboard: MSI X570-A Pro
CPU: Ryzen 7 3700x (OC to 4.2ghz)
Memory: CORSAIR - Vengeance RGB PRO 4x8GB 3200 (OC 3400)
Video: Geforce GTX 1080 FE
Monitor 1: Samsung 43" 4K
Monitor 2: HP 32" 2K
SSD1: Samsung 980 Pro 1TB
SSD2: Samsung 970 Evo 250GB
CPU Cooler: CORSAIR - iCUE H100i ELITE CAPELLIX CPU
Additional Fan: 2x Corsair LL Series 120mm
Wifi Card: Asus AX3000
Passmark Benchmark: https://www.passmark.com/baselines/V10/display.php?id=141447946253
Let me know what you think
Jesus thats one big monitor.
Tv monitor xd.
That gaming setup. In my opinion, is a very very very very expensive, rgbed and overpowered setup.
All you have left is an RTX or smth.
So... you just sit in front of that massive screen? Can you even see the whole thing at once?
inpression said:
So... you just sit in front of that massive screen? Can you even see the whole thing at once?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, yes. Both monitors are on full articulation mounts (up/down, left/right, back and forward, tilt). They can stick out 2.5 feet or sit flush to the wall so I can move them around. I usually have the monitor further back than in the pic but I wanted to get as close a grouping as possible when I took the picture.
If the 43" is as close as it is in the picture then that is too big but when I put it back about 9 inches its perfect for me. My eyes are not that good so if I dont have my glasses with me I can still see
Kenora_I said:
Jesus thats one big monitor.
Tv monitor xd.
That gaming setup. In my opinion, is a very very very very expensive, rgbed and overpowered setup.
All you have left is an RTX or smth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, I dont really game. I play Forza from time to time. I just like the LED's and how they look. Lots of options with the Corsair lighting.
Hmm then it would be good for coding i guess.
Wow, love the screens and the overall theme of your setup. I've gradually warmed up to the use of so many LEDs in PC setups.
Looks neat, cable management is well done.
Now I do not like so much RGB, I would prefer to see what theme is your personal preference, but well that is a matter of personal taste.
The monitors are too big at for this sitting distance, I think you would have a nicer experience with 3 smaller monitors (not small just smaller), or doing a setup in which your monitor is set farther away, maybe with a couch in from of it, but still visible from your working desk, this would require a whole setup modification and changing the placement of your desk tho (I have seen this kind of setups).
All in all, neat as I said before, but think about the 3 monitor smaller monitors setup, I think that setup would make your work or gaming more pleasant.
Scott said:
Hello thought I would share some pics and my build specs....
View attachment 5366077
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! This looks great.
love it, congratulations
how much do you spend on this PC?

Ryzen 5 3600 / RTX 2070 Super / 27" 1440p 144hz

- MSI B450M VDH-Pro Max
- Ryzen 5 3600
- GIGABYTE GeForce® RTX 2070 SUPER™ GAMING OC 8G
- Neo Forza Faye 16GB 3200mhz
- Crucial P5 NVMe M.2 SSD 500GB
- WD Blue 2TB
- Straight Power 11 750w
- Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
- Be Quiet! Pure Wings 2
- Dell S2721DFG
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Nice touch with the cards and the dice. Didn't you have any poker chips?
Is that humongous monitor really mounted on a single point? I really like two points, I don't like booble-headed displays.
The PC is nice and clean, but I always go for the minimum of wasted space.
There really should be a better scheme (in general) for the retention of the back end of PCI cards. The flippy clips are not really secure and don't do anything for the top corner.
AusVGM said:
- MSI B450M VDH-Pro Max
- Ryzen 5 3600
- GIGABYTE GeForce® RTX 2070 SUPER™ GAMING OC 8G
- Neo Forza Faye 16GB 3200mhz
- Crucial P5 NVMe M.2 SSD 500GB
- WD Blue 2TB
- Straight Power 11 750w
- Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
- Be Quiet! Pure Wings 2
- Dell S2721DFG
View attachment 5406819
View attachment 5406821
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i swear i saw this for sale on FB marketplace, same dice and cards as the gpu support
WillisD said:
i swear i saw this for sale on FB marketplace, same dice and cards as the gpu support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn, that's spicy. Definitely a different build though, I don't have/use Facebook. Spooky for sure.
Renate said:
Nice touch with the cards and the dice. Didn't you have any poker chips?
Is that humongous monitor really mounted on a single point? I really like two points, I don't like booble-headed displays.
The PC is nice and clean, but I always go for the minimum of wasted space.
There really should be a better scheme (in general) for the retention of the back end of PCI cards. The flippy clips are not really secure and don't do anything for the top corner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No poker chips but is a nice idea, might have to go out and get some.
I used to have a 24" 1080p display and since upgrading the monitor haven't gotten around to swapping out the arm from the little one I have there. It does support 27" but I want you get something beefier like you suggested.
Thanks for the feedback!
if you haven't already done so, can i recommend you try ctr 2.1rc5 to overclock your ryzen ?
my build has the same cpu, with 2x8gb b-die ram running at 1800 (3600)
the clocking software has 4 out of 6 cores managing to hit over 4.6ghz, with the weaker 2 hitting a mere 4.38 at peak, with maximal vcore never above 1.375v, and usually way less
runs ~ 10c cooler than the stock settings, and way faster
it's a beautiful thing...
AusVGM said:
Damn, that's spicy. Definitely a different build though, I don't have/use Facebook. Spooky for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or someone jacked that photo and trying to scam someone, see it all to much
Thsnks
Is it quiet?
svetius said:
Is it quiet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's pretty quiet. I need to replace the back fan to match the others in the front as it's the only one I can hear and gets loud at the same rpm. Once I put my closed backs on I can't hear a thing.

Mecha-Godzilla PC

I've enjoyed building my own PCs since the 1990s. I also use a lot of local storage and often use a half dozen virtual PCs (usually in Hyper-V) in Windows (10 right now). I've previously used Microsoft's Storage Spaces with dual parity and to great effect until suddenly I lost nearly everything after about 8 years' use when it declared my 64 TB ReFS partition as "raw".
I built my previous PC in 2016 - an Intel 6-core with 32 GB of RAM.
As a PC builder, I really appreciate having as much room inside a case as I can get, and I knew I wanted to stick 18+ internal hard drives in while being able to easily replace most or all of them without opening the case.
I don't give a hoot about looks or color at all - it's all about performance for me. I'm not much of a gamer. The prime of my gaming was probably 25-30 years ago, although I do like X-Com and Civilization. I don't care about included fans. I'd rather use ones I supply myself, but I generally make 100% usage of what fans do come with a case, as I could spend hundreds of dollars more to replace them with my preference and it probably wouldn't make much difference.
I believe in positive air pressure, I really prefer not to have any holes in a case that aren't covered by a fan, so I seal them up with gorilla tape. I also prefer the largest and as many fans as I can fit in a case with the highest CFM per $ ratio.
After much research, I bought the following:
Anidees AI Crystal XL PRO RGB computer case. Official website here, lengthy review with tons of pictures here, NewEgg here, and Amazon here.
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My favorite aspects of this case besides the general enormity are:
Every large front, side, top, and bottom opening has built-in easily removable and cleanable filters.
It has four USB-A 3.x ports on the top. I actually don't usually prefer all my "front" ports and switches on the top of a case, but this case is an exception in this area. It would've been nice if it had a USB-C port or two on top, but I'm adding my own to the front bottom of the case - or I plan to if my laziness ever allows me. Meanwhile, I just have them available but lose at the bottom.
I can fit 6x StarTech.com 3-Bay Hot Swap Backplane for 3.5in SAS II/SATA III - 6 Gbps HDD - Aluminum Trayless Mobile Rack Backplane (HSB3SATSASBA) in the front (pictured below), adding up to 18 total spots available for internal 3.5" and 2.5" hard drives. I have them connected to one of two Microsemi Adaptec ASR-78165 SAS RAID cards in JBOD mode via expensive cables and adapters to make up for how cheaply I bought the SAS cards.
MSI TRX40 Creator AMD sTRX4 eATX Motherboard (MS-7C59)
I have 3x Samsung 980 Pro 1TB nVME SSDs installed in the motherboard. I am not currently using the 4x nVME PCIe adapter card that came with the motherboard, as I'd have difficulty using it with the two SAS controller cards installed.
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X (24-core, 48-thread)
Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3, Premium-grade CPU Cooler for AMD sTRX4/TR4/SP3 (140mm, Brown)
Noctua NF-A15 PWM, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (140mm, Brown) for the exhaust side of the above CPU cooler.
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 256GB (8 x 32GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q2-256GVK
I only bought an Asus TUF Gaming TUF-GTX1650-O4GD6 Overclocked Edition. As I said, I don't game much, I do have a 4K TV and occasionally do some video editing for myself.
I also bought some extra Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM, Heavy Duty Cooling Fan, 4-Pin, 3000 RPM (140mm, Black) along with Noctua NA-SAV4, Silicone Anti-Vibration Fan Mount Set (16-Pack, Brown), and replaced the glass side with 0.125 THICK CLEAR CAST ACRYLIC PAPER-MASKED SHEET, Size: 14.36" X 18.985" @ +/- 0.015. I installed two of those extra fans to blow air in through this new cast acrylic side.
I also contacted Anidees (the case manufacturer) and got them to send me two extra of the top filter pieces so that I can eventually install them on the side. I got two because I actually got two of these cases, to put my old PC guts into one of these new cases to become my wife's new computer, and I'll do the same for the side of her computer.
I could spend some money on a bunch of thin Noctua 140mm fans and be able to fit 4 on each side of the case behind the built-in filters, and replace included fans with them on the top and bottom of the PC, but that would be a ton of money and I think I spent enough.
I used the fan remote control that comes with the case, and software made for my motherboard to turn all built-in LEDs in the fans and the motherboard off. Personally, I think they're stupid. No offense to those who like extra lighting.

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