I believe that carriers will either design their own modules. This could lead to devices that have contestant signals instead of OEMs developing their radios that could have issues.
Also I could see carriers lobbying against this because of the fact that all the modules on a device are not "approved" to work on there networks.
On the plus side, no more annoying bloatware from carriers, just go in pay for radio module and contract and leave. :laugh:
I think we can ALL safely agree that Verizon will be the last of the major carriers to be ok with Project Ara and frankly I hope it hurts them (though I doubt it will). As for me, im willing to switch carriers to try Project Ara phones because I currently have the world's most underperforming phone..an S4 locked down and full of bloatware.
Samsung Galaxy S4 "Fort Knox Edition"
sokrboot said:
I think we can ALL safely agree that Verizon will be the last of the major carriers to be ok with Project Ara and frankly I hope it hurts them (though I doubt it will). As for me, im willing to switch carriers to try Project Ara phones because I currently have the world's most underperforming phone..an S4 locked down and full of bloatware.
Samsung Galaxy S4 "Fort Knox Edition"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhh that's a no go!!
Haha nice SIG by the way
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
No carrier
Sell directly from manufacturer
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Ara is the anticarrier phone, they already hate unlocked phones, imagine a phone that you only have to upgrade every 5 years minimum.
I'm first in line for the Ara but make no mistake this won't be a mainstream phone for the same reason that custom PCs aren't mainstream either.
Somehow I feel some carriers may embrace project ara; so much so I'm a bit worried they may try sticking their nose into things as they develop.
Verizon though is gonna have exclusive modules, with a slightly different designed chassis which only their specially "certified" modules will fit
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Free mobile app
Why for? They make more money by selling you a new phone and locking you in a plan again
That's how they've made it work for now but I'm sure they will figure out how to milk ara devices enough to live with
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Free mobile app
I really don't think Ara is going to be popular outside the tech scene, like custom PCs.
How many mainstream users you know who install a custom Rom?
How would it be different than you buying a phone, sticking a SIM card in it, and go?
Sent from my C6916 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
You can't update the hardware of a regular phone so you need a new one, more money for the carrier
MGREX said:
I really don't think Ara is going to be popular outside the tech scene, like custom PCs.
How many mainstream users you know who install a custom Rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because mainstream users don't install custom ROMs doesn't mean the market isn't there. Think of how many users are just ONLINE at once on XDA alone; the community is huge. Having said that, it doesn't mean that non-mainstream users are the ONLY demographic for Ara. If it becomes reality then it will probably be marketed in an enormous way.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
danhatcher said:
Just because mainstream users don't install custom ROMs doesn't mean the market isn't there. Think of how many users are just ONLINE at once on XDA alone; the community is huge. Having said that, it doesn't mean that non-mainstream users are the ONLY demographic for Ara. If it becomes reality then it will probably be marketed in an enormous way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't cure stupid, and most people are stupid. Right now we are getting chips with 8 crap cores instead of 2 or 4 really good ones because people in china is too stupid to see that more cores != more power
Which is not to say that people in the west aren't even dumber, all they care is branding (particularly one type of fruit...) and dumb gimmicks that add next to nothing to the experience.
I'm first in line to get an Ara, and I will try to bring as many people to the modular movement as possible, but even I know where the market for this ends.
MGREX said:
You can't cure stupid, and most people are stupid. Right now we are getting chips with 8 crap cores instead of 2 or 4 really good ones because people in china is too stupid to see that more cores != more power
Which is not to say that people in the west aren't even dumber, all they care is branding (particularly one type of fruit...) and dumb gimmicks that add next to nothing to the experience.
I'm first in line to get an Ara, and I will try to bring as many people to the modular movement as possible, but even I know where the market for this ends.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being from 'The West', I couldn't agree more.
Sent from my GT-I9300
Aside from a certain commie-colored carrier, the only issue I see carriers having is tether/nfc. Otherwise they will have to suck it up. The great thing about gsm is you pay for the card's service, not the phone's. Hopefully with a universal radio (operate on ALL the bands!), we can make a truly free-as-in-free phone. Just make sure the BL stays unlocked/ unlockable.
Carries can definitely make money off project Ara. If they were to sell the parts to update your phone people could be potentially spending more money more frequently as people will upgrade the individual parts
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Lol
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Free mobile app
Here here to that the carrier definitely will go with that as the potential markup is great.
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Free mobile app
Well whether carriers get engaged or even want to is something we'll have to wait and see. Google have taglined this as 'Designed exclusively for five billion people' I don't think they're going to let networks from anywhere, no matter how big and loud get in the way of that. As for carrier designed/developed modules, time will tell. Maybe the everyday casual user will drop into a phone shop for an upgrade but like super/heavy users on pc's, how many buy off the shelf unless they need it instantly or the price is almost the same as online? It's going to change the whole game. Maybe not for a couple of years but remember all the small tech companies who cane afford the cost of developing a full device, they can just focus on their strengths. And then like pc's we'll end up with a much more competitive, growing and advanced market. Sure there'll be cheap third party tak, but there'll also be top line unreal options made available. The growth that will follow is going to be unlike anything we've ever seen, even if it does take a while to get going.
I for one can't wait.
Sent from my GT-I8730 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Honestly who cares if carriers handle this. We are so close to having upgraded wifi signals to the point where we probably will phase out our traditional voice and text when this starts to become mainstream.
Related
Venting frustrations with a question - Does ANYONE have ANY idea if Google is applying any pressure to hardware manufacturers to ensure updates? I would think not.
The ONLY thing that I really appreciate about Apple is that the iPhone is certain to get updates at least during the duration of your 2-year contract term. (by the second generation after your purchase the os might not be backward compatible. I get that.) Android is so hit and miss with updates.
Take the Vibrant for example. (please no idiot posts about "you knew what you were getting!" "They never promised upgrades!" etc) When this phone came out it was, and stil is, touted as one of the best gaming phones on the market due to it's gpu. So anyone with any technical understanding could only assume that updates would come. Why put a super charged turbo in a mini van? (again, no idiot posts about the obvious).
I for one will NEVER BUY SAMSUNG AGAIN. I am looking at the HTC Pyramid. At least my htc g1 got all the updates it could handle.
Fragmentation and lack of support could end up being the legacy of android unless something changes. on the other hand, I suppose I do appreciate the commitment of samsung to update their phones "within 6 months of an os update release."
Thanks for letting me vent...
Sent from my Samsuck using XDA App
Alot of people see android and fragmentation in the same reply and become angry. Those are usually the words from iphone fans. But I do believe android needs to apply pressure to companies who put android on there devices. Support can make a big difference when it comes to customers. I have faith in android/google to figure out a balance of open source and some type of rule set for companies wth resources to apply updates.
I just hope it doesn't end up like winmo.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Software updates should be given out by googleand google only.
I trust google and no one else in the android world.
xriderx66 said:
Software updates should be given out by googleand google only.
I trust google and no one else in the android world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All android phones should be like the nexus,get updates directly from google
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
xriderx66 said:
Software updates should be given out by googleand google only.
I trust google and no one else in the android world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I am not considering anything but a nexus phone when its time to replace my vibrant....but honestly I don't care too much I got this phone knowing that samsung are gangsters and just leave phones with no real support...i knew from the start that it would be popular enough to have dev support....my phone has been rooted from day one
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Welcome to the open source world. Get a Google phone if you want updates, they only have two available .
If only they have done that from the start.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
ALL of you are ignoring the fact the nexus doesn't have gingerbread... I mean we may have it sooner (leaks)
Android is as open as the developers behind the handset. The whole open source is better is just a lie that geeks tell themselves to justify their purchase. Take Vibrants for example, Android can still be the open platform that it is but without the developers behind it, it is nothing. Openess doesn't worth ****, not for phones.
A good counter example is iPhone (or WP7 eventually if the community grows), while the platform is closed source, the jailbroken community is still prosperous and brought many additional function to the platform without being open source platform in the first place.
sp1kez said:
All android phones should be like the nexus,get updates directly from google
From a business perspective, Google does not even want to come close to this responsibility. To much cost and responsibility at stake.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3
I'll only pay it if it's pure Google and no more than 20$. Lol
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
No reason to pay for it. Androids kernel is based off Linux. Open source!
Google should force the hardware manufacturers to give them the drivers. Ya, I would say at this point in the game, with the dominance of Android, why not start playing hard ball with manufacturers and carriers? You don't even need the phone manufacturers support, since most of the components (chips, memory, screen, etc) are from various manufacturers, and not really the phone manufacturer. Just get the drivers from component makers directly.
Anyway, if one really had to pay. I think minor updates should be free, and major OS overhauls should have a minor fee, if at all. Personally, I would pay a small fee for major OS upgrades versus free for small updates.
Id be willing to pay a small amount over waiting months.
Trigger 3.3
I think there should be one ultimate phone. You know in the android which gets the fastest updates, oh wait isn't that a nexus? :O
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
You start paying for this sort of thing and then they send out the dogs. Bad idea. I can't think of any companies that have done this but I'm sure there are major ones.
And. If the main os was optimized for users by the dev team and people that haven't bought the update them can be in trouble for stealing. Yeah they might try it but the push against would be stronger. And pirating phone stuff would be HUGE. Almost as big as movie or game s are.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
helllllllll no.
Only if its straitup aosp. And if we can get the God d*mn update the day Google released it. You know like 2.3 was realeased in December and some company's *cough*HTC*cough* didn't release it till today. And without new sense... smh -_-
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
GreggoryD502 said:
We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer. I wouldn't pay a dime. A device should work satisfactorily as advertised. If it does not then I choose to take matters into my own hands, either by getting another device or indulging in a community like this one. I just don't think it's as simple as your implying.
Money is a motivator for manufacturers and carriers, but only in the sense of how it impacts meeting deadlines and release schedules. No amount of theoretical payola from end users is going to change this. End users and their perceptions do matter, even to manufacturers. But we're kidding ourselves if we think that our goals here in a place like XDA represent anything remotely close to the majority. They do not.
Android brings an entirely different sort of OS ecosystem to the table than consumers have been accustomed to, and more importantly entirely different than what carriers and manufacturers are accustomed to.
Much of what we have seen in the past few years with regards slow or nonexistent updates has been due to how manufacturers initially approached Android as simply a way to stave off significant R&D. Manufacturers are doing better in this regard as of late, because the ecosystem as a whole is maturing. The market is now lucrative and extensive, but competition is rife.
It is these competitive forces AND ONLY THESE that will improve the situation. Indeed it can be readily argued that this above all else is what has made such update issues ameliorate themselves. The most jaded among us can certainly realize things are much better now for Android as a whole than they were a year ago. Orders of magnitude so!!
Even so, realize that manufacturers will only do what they deem is in their interests when developing for their products. No matter how capable the hardware, or how "open" the infrastructure, manufacturers are in this for profit (as well they should be). Many will realize that supporting existing hardware is in their best interest, but as we've seen in similar scenarios in the PC universe, they will do this to varying degrees and for their own reasons. Some will do better than others and perhaps some of that will play out well with end users and gain them loyal customers. It's as likely that customers will simply go elsewhere because they're enticed to do so. This simply isn't as simple a problem as it was when this whole Android sleighride started anymore.
Communities like XDA have a role to play, and the developers and their efforts made here recontribute to everyone involved. But lets not kid ourselves. The performance of most devices as they ship is, to varying degrees, satisfactory. Most users are not zealots (and lets be frank, most XDA people *ARE*), and many of the concerns expressed here are not only unrealistic they are pointless. It is difficult enough to come up with a concrete list of precisely why 2.3 is better than 2.2, or 2.1 amongst ourselves as it is. To most end users perception (and thus most manufacturers) these distinctions are trivial and meaningless.
XDA is a hacker's maven. An important one, and a valuable one to those of us who participate here. But Android itself is no longer *just* a hacker's wet dream. It's a commercial juggernaut of a platform that is living and thriving quite nicely with or without us as this stage.
I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.
doug2060 said:
I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... Piracy?
I LIKE IT.
I will pay for it. Not to Samsung or t-mobile. I have $20 saved for the first developer who gets gingerbread working stable on our phone.
It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!
HyprGeek said:
It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?
I wouldn't.
pvspencer22 said:
You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but how many go for the paid instead of free?
Ok what if google can get updates out like apple does to its devices. Notice sprint does not even have ics yet for the nexus s since sprint is launching the galery nexus soon so I bet sprint just only,let a few phone get the ics update as a beta if you will as then user would not buy the newer ics phone. So if google charged a small update fee provided your phone meets the requirements. Or why does google even allow all these add ons like sense and touchwiz. Why not have the pure google non skinned version for like a few dollars and if you want the custom sense then wait for htc samsung to release it a year later.... cough cough fryo.... cough cough gingerbread....
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Well to answer your question, nope, since we got amazing devs here to satisfy our quench for updating XD
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Fire n mage said:
Well to answer your question, nope, since we got amazing devs here to satisfy our quench for updating XD
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True for people who are rooted but what about the average non xda type of user who waits for offical ota?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
samsungd700 said:
True for people who are rooted but what about the average non xda type of user who waits for offical ota?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
those average non xda people dont even know root or the latest software means it more of a phone to call and text and browse internet. they dont care if their phone has the latest and greatest updates.
mark8503 said:
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You buy the phone from apple, and they also make the software. We buy the phone from Samsung, and Google makes the software. Big difference. You seriously wouldn't shell out like 5 dollars to get ICS like 4 months ago, fully working and smooth? Gonna call bs on that.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
mark8503 said:
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't pay Apple for anyting. Lol
/trollface
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
mark8503 said:
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure you do its called OS/X.... which is i-os is somewhat based on...
muyoso said:
You buy the phone from apple, and they also make the software. We buy the phone from Samsung, and Google makes the software. Big difference. You seriously wouldn't shell out like 5 dollars to get ICS like 4 months ago, fully working and smooth? Gonna call bs on that.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i disagree on that one as Google does also makes phones called the Nexus and the Motorola Mobility line as Google no owns Moto Mobility. And from what i understand its the stuff like touchwiz and sense that make it harder to get the updates a quickly since the carriers must test everything for like 90 days or more and if it fails then they start the process from the beginning.
I say google should only have one uniform look to android like how apple does with i-os. (i however do not like apple as too expensive for the rich people) If you want a custom launcher like go you can download it but it would not be apart of any official rom from the maker / carrier.
thomasskull666 said:
I don't pay Apple for anyting. Lol
/trollface
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I don't either. Meaning we don't buy it. PERIOD!!!!
samsungd700 said:
Sure you do its called OS/X.... which is i-os is somewhat based on...
Well i disagree on that one as Google does also makes phones called the Nexus and the Motorola Mobility line as Google no owns Moto Mobility. And from what i understand its the stuff like touchwiz and sense that make it harder to get the updates a quickly since the carriers must test everything for like 90 days or more and if it fails then they start the process from the beginning.
I say google should only have one uniform look to android like how apple does with i-os. (i however do not like apple as too expensive for the rich people) If you want a custom launcher like go you can download it but it would not be apart of any official rom from the maker / carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have to say; it looks like youve just taken random sentences and thrown them together here.
austin420 said:
i have to say; it looks like youve just taken random sentences and thrown them together here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
And for real there is a Galery Nexus coming soon? I will compare it with the Galaxy Nexus to check which one is better.
And back to the thread. I won't pay, but there is people which pay to others for root their phones, so I think they will pay.
Sent from my Epic 4g with CM9
csmasn said:
+1
And for real there is a Galery Nexus coming soon? I will compare it with the Galaxy Nexus to check which one is better.
And back to the thread. I won't pay, but there is people which pay to others for root their phones, so I think they will pay.
Sent from my Epic 4g with CM9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would pay for official updates if it means they come as soon as google releases them. perhaps google should not release any updates until all carriers and manufacturer are ready to push them to all phones that meet the requirements. Do what microsoft does and they just push them to all phones at the same time so the carriers dont have a say in the matter... sort of like windows update on the pc. just check for the update and then install... carriers and manufacturer have too much power to decide who gets what...
I'd love to have mine done in a timely manor. I hear it's nice this time of year!
NO way wouldn't pay! Plus its totally unrealistic considering the different devices and bloatware! Apple has one device line to update! But don't forget Apple owns the software! You get caught messing with it they "Kill" your phone!
MTD (EL30)
BLENDED CLEAN GB 1.12 With Various mods
SHADOW V3.0
(in the voice of lil john)
YAAAYUUUUUHH!!!!
Robalboa said:
NO way wouldn't pay! Plus its totally unrealistic considering the different devices and bloatware! Apple has one device line to update! But don't forget Apple owns the software! You get caught messing with it they "Kill" your phone!
MTD (EL30)
BLENDED CLEAN GB 1.12 With Various mods
SHADOW V3.0
(in the voice of lil john)
YAAAYUUUUUHH!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well how does microsoft do it then with windows phone 7 and with the pc's? As long as if the phones meet the minimum requirements then good to go. This would work simply because it would get rid of the custom interfaces from the makers like htc sense or samsung touchwiz. If you want those they would only be available as a download apk from the market like how go launcher and adw desktop are. Google needs to take a stand on the custom overlays and how they devalue android with lack of updates as the makers think somehow that sense or touchwiz add somesort of value to the phone when in fact it does not. android 4 is perfect interface and with android 2.x and 3.x its good enough or download some aftermarket one like go launcher. Otherwise i would pay for updates like how i do on my laptop. they can also make money off the updates as well like $25 per phone again as long as it meets the requirements. and now google owns motorola mobility so google is now just like appple. So goolge / Moto Mobility does control the hardware and software
samsungd700 said:
well how does microsoft do it then with windows phone 7 and with the pc's? As long as if the phones meet the minimum requirements then good to go. This would work simply because it would get rid of the custom interfaces from the makers like htc sense or samsung touchwiz. If you want those they would only be available as a download apk from the market like how go launcher and adw desktop are. Google needs to take a stand on the custom overlays and how they devalue android with lack of updates as the makers think somehow that sense or touchwiz add somesort of value to the phone when in fact it does not. android 4 is perfect interface and with android 2.x and 3.x its good enough or download some aftermarket one like go launcher. Otherwise i would pay for updates like how i do on my laptop. they can also make money off the updates as well like $25 per phone again as long as it meets the requirements. and now google owns motorola mobility so google is now just like appple. So goolge / Moto Mobility does control the hardware and software
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who is to say that custom launchers are devaluing android? if anything, they bring more to the table. i think a lot of the people here would say that they prefer some of the asthetics and options that touchwiz includes. i cant speak to sense or motoblur as i havent used them.
No. Just like I would not pay extra for gas to have someone else come out and pump it for me. In both cases we already pay too much, for gas, for the phones, service and insurance. If all phones were free I would think about it. But you pay more for a better phone, it damn well better be updated in a reasonable timely manner.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
The manufacturer should be providing timely updates as part of buying the phone. We should expect new versions of the OS until at least the EOL and then bugfixes and security updates for another two years past that as a minimum.
Now that we're done with fantasy land, I wouldn't mind paying a nominal charge for a version update provided that they have a stable bug-free version of the current OS. IMHO Samsung never got there with the Epic.
samsungd700 said:
True for people who are rooted but what about the average non xda type of user who waits for offical ota?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The average non-xda user wouldn't know what 'stock' android is, and frankly, they probably wouldn't be impressed with it for this reason right here
--vvv---
austin420 said:
who is to say that custom launchers are devaluing android? if anything, they bring more to the table. i think a lot of the people here would say that they prefer some of the asthetics and options that touchwiz includes. i cant speak to sense or motoblur as i havent used them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't used Sense, but from my limited experience, Blur is horrid. TW smokes it by a mile. I enjoyed some of the features of Touchwiz, no joke.
And OP, while Google may now own Motorola Mobility, it doesn't mean they own all the hardware. It just means they kind of do with Motorola. They still don't with Samsung, HTC, LG, Sony, etc etc etc.
I'm still a firm believer the biggest reason Google bought Moto was for the patents, not to try and complete with Apple by owning both hardware/software.
EDIT: For the record, I think the number one way to go about the issue is this: all android phones, stock, come with their own skin out of the box by default. However, the user has the ability to go with stock Android upon bootup or something like that. Maybe a tutorial that guides users stating what that skin brings to the table. Maybe something saying here's what you'll have with the skin vs without it, and list off apps and features associated with it.
This way, us android-heads can get any phone we want with stock android, and the average user still has the same options as today.
I wanted to put something of worth within this thread as a conversation topic, but it has become rather vexing trying to pick apart the compilation of sentences that the OP's has been using lol, though me saying I mean no offense would not help I don't think heh.
In regards to paying for an upgrade, it does occur in iOS when the next incremental upgrades come to the iPod Touch Line, for iPhone's a user is guaranteed that update due to being on a monthly plan with their device unless that device is gradually replaced in which case it goes no further upgrade wise as there is a new iteration close to it in price and internal size, if iPad's are affected in the same way being on carrier/off carrier I'm unaware, I also haven't upgraded my iPod Touch in a long while either to test the validity of that, so I'm open to correction. Though iOS has been on 5.x for a bit anyways.
In this case.
Android lacks something iOS does in this case, uniformity, which is how Apple portrays their control over their platform and why it's so popular and simple to use, they limit what can be used and what is used and set a basis forward to keep compatibility in the long run. The Nexus Line is controlled by Google and their partner in each step of the way, more by Google however because they essentially get to pick and choose what they want which works well in the whole grand scheme of things, which means timely updates are to come. They don't have control over LG, HTC, Sony, or Samsung for that matter in their other endeavors in Android and what "crap"(lack of more proper word) that's proprietary they decide to put within the platform for the sake of bragging rights, they're their own entities which for the most part have added to the overall disconnection of Android across the board. Buying out that specific aspect of Motorola was a play for patents to avoid lawsuit not a play for control.
Saying you'd pay money for an update to Android on your phone becomes problematic, in our case, ICS. If you paid $10 because you to have the update when it came out, in the following months it'd be very likely it'd have problems, and you'd be the prime benefactor of said problems. You paid $10 for an update, now what about the update to address that issue? Or the update following that update to address the following issues? Or what if you paid for an update and never got an update in the long run, just for the sake of not having one?
Would those be paid as well? I'm only throwing forth baseless scenarios, because this arrives to the entitlement aspect of things. Paying to get an update makes you entitled to said update, when a company can G.A.F less about an older piece of hardware having support when they've devices in their minds which are twice as good as last years model. I understand where you're going with this thread but, paying for your update in software wouldn't make the fact that your phone is aging any better, nor would it make Android any more uniform, it'd only make it more annoying of a platform due to it. It's not a better alternative than just waiting it out on what you're currently using until you can upgrade your line to something new. Spending more money to have your phone officially supported is rather foolish. In my opinion though.
/endrant
And essentially the Epic isn't EOL/EOS. It just happens to be on it's last legs. So whether it's last update is stable or not won't matter at that point.
Lg Optimus G - Locked bootloader
Htc One X+ - Locked bootloader.
Galaxy note II - Out of my price/size range regardless of bootloader.
Xperia TL- Locked bootloader
Galaxy S3 - may grab but, not really thrilled about it like I would have been a few months back.
Nexus 4 - not paying 400$+ for 16 gb of memory and lack of LTE.
I really don't feel like I'm being *that* picky with what I want... Dev Support, better battery life than my captivate, a nice (preferably ips) screen. Either 32 gigs of memory or expandable storage.. and ideally LTE.
Anyone else out there feel kinda like they don't have any "real" options for their next device? I'm stuck on a family plan at the moment and feel like at&t is trolling me to be quite honest.
I feel the same here. I'm not upgrading anytime soon at all. My s2 should last me until I find a good fit for me.
Sent from my SII(i777) SuperNexus 4.1.2 10/17/12 build
Shawn said:
I feel the same here. I'm not upgrading anytime soon at all. My s2 should last me until I find a good fit for me.
Sent from my SII(i777) SuperNexus 4.1.2 10/17/12 build
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It's a real shame too. There are a lot of nice phones being locked down for no real clear cut reason.
I mean I understand that they will sell regardless of whether or not I buy any given phone.. but, it just seems like a waste of their time/energy to lock up a phone when all it does is discourage users from upgrading.
Snow_fox said:
.. but, it just seems like a waste of their time/energy to lock up a phone when all it does is discourage users from upgrading.
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People like us are not the norm. Probably an iOS fart app has more downloads than the xda android app. The people who are being discouraged essentially don't exist to them.
post-mortem said:
People like us are not the norm. Probably an iOS fart app has more downloads than the xda android app. The people who are being discouraged essentially don't exist to them.
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While you are probably right on both accounts... I do think it's incredibly sad on all accounts.
They
A. spend money to lock down the bootloader. Even if it's not a lot it's still money.
B. Loose out on customers like me and you and the few who refuse to buy anything that won't get ROM updates for 2 years.
It's spending money to lose money for no real good reason. And while you're right, we don't exist to them in a lot of ways.. they still look for every possible way to get in our pocket and want every dime we have.
Snow_fox said:
While you are probably right on both accounts... I do think it's incredibly sad on all accounts.
They
A. spend money to lock down the bootloader. Even if it's not a lot it's still money.
B. Loose out on customers like me and you and the few who refuse to buy anything that won't get ROM updates for 2 years.
It's spending money to lose money for no real good reason. And while you're right, we don't exist to them in a lot of ways.. they still look for every possible way to get in our pocket and want every dime we have.
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A. is not necessarily true, because I'm pretty sure they hand out free phones to people who come in with their Android device "that just happened to shut off on them one day." Locking the bootloader cuts down on these numbers and saves them money in the long run.
Either way, AT&T has pretty much super phones from every major Android manufacterer, so you might want to take advantage of that. Also, the Galaxy S3 is a few months old - so what? Why is that impacting your decision on getting it? If I may, #firstworldproblems. I say go for it with incredible development support since that really appears to be the most open.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
Also not upgrading anytime soon, but for another reason. As it turns out, I went through 3 devices from sept 2011 thru 0ct 2012.
But yes, nothing coming out appeals to me. I fear the new nexus will be too massive for me, and I don't want any mfg/carrier controlled device.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
gagdude said:
A. is not necessarily true, because I'm pretty sure they hand out free phones to people who come in with their Android device "that just happened to shut off on them one day." Locking the bootloader cuts down on these numbers and saves them money in the long run.
Either way, AT&T has pretty much super phones from every major Android manufacterer, so you might want to take advantage of that. Also, the Galaxy S3 is a few months old - so what? Why is that impacting your decision on getting it? If I may, #firstworldproblems. I say go for it with incredible development support since that really appears to be the most open.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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There are a number of phones out there that are incredibly hard to brick past the point of repair.
"Average Joe" is going to be scared off by the possibility of a voided warranty and having to do anything requiring any level of technical skill. I don't really think locking down the bootloader saves them nearly as much money as they would like to believe. People are either going to be scared off and not mess with it, or they are going to be angry at you for not fully supporting your phone in any way shape or form.
You also say AT&T has super phones from every major manufacturer, yet the only one you listed with an unlocked bootloader/ample dev support is the S3.. I hardly think that qualifies as a serious or decent selection of "super phones" to pick from. Unless you mean "they have a bunch of phones that will be dropped in terms of support after 6 months."
And you can #firstworldproblem all day long. You're on the internet. The fact that we are even discussing this on the internet means it's a pretty high chance of being a first world issue. Being completely blunt, if you were to argue it's not even a problem I wouldn't really disagree because, quite frankly it's a luxury device and not a lack of water needed for survival.
On the flip side, if you are going to choose to discuss an issue, why not keep it relevant? Even if it is non-existent in scale as far as problems go, we can still discuss whatever we want last I checked.
jordanishere said:
Also not upgrading anytime soon, but for another reason. As it turns out, I went through 3 devices from sept 2011 thru 0ct 2012.
But yes, nothing coming out appeals to me. I fear the new nexus will be too massive for me, and I don't want any mfg/carrier controlled device.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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It's my understanding the new nexus will be about the same size as the Gnex or AFAIK it is.
I don't care if it has carrier branding, I just want the ability to install the latest version of Cyanogen until I'm eligible for a new device.
Snow_fox said:
There are a number of phones out there that are incredibly hard to brick past the point of repair.
"Average Joe" is going to be scared off by the possibility of a voided warranty and having to do anything requiring any level of technical skill. I don't really think locking down the bootloader saves them nearly as much money as they would like to believe. People are either going to be scared off and not mess with it, or they are going to be angry at you for not fully supporting your phone in any way shape or form.
You also say AT&T has super phones from every major manufacturer, yet the only one you listed with an unlocked bootloader/ample dev support is the S3.. I hardly think that qualifies as a serious or decent selection of "super phones" to pick from. Unless you mean "they have a bunch of phones that will be dropped in terms of support after 6 months."
And you can #firstworldproblem all day long. You're on the internet. The fact that we are even discussing this on the internet means it's a pretty high chance of being a first world issue. Being completely blunt, if you were to argue it's not even a problem I wouldn't really disagree because, quite frankly it's a luxury device and not a lack of water needed for survival.
On the flip side, if you are going to choose to discuss an issue, why not keep it relevant? Even if it is non-existent in scale as far as problems go, we can still discuss whatever we want last I checked.
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Dude.. please. Chillax. I'm not arguing with you, simply stating my thoughts. No need to get aggrivated
I'm letting you discuss... when did I say you couldn't.....? I have my $.02 too, though.
By the way, when I said #firstworldproblems it was meant as a joke, not as an insult. I have them too, you know
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
gagdude said:
Dude.. please. Chillax. I'm not arguing with you, simply stating my thoughts. No need to get aggrivated
I'm letting you discuss... when did I say you couldn't.....? I have my $.02 too, though.
By the way, when I said #firstworldproblems it was meant as a joke, not as an insult. I have them too, you know
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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I am not aggro'd just discussing for the most part.
I more went off on a tanget and never reigned in the train of thought.
Snow_fox said:
I am not aggro'd just discussing for the most part.
I more went off on a tanget and never reigned in the train of thought.
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Sorry mate, it just seemed like you got angry at me.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
gagdude said:
Sorry mate, it just seemed like you got angry at me.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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Oh no, I just have adhd tendencies like rambling.
At any rate, I am really hoping LG decides to throw out some way to unlock the bootloader. I'd really love to have a quad core device with an IPS display this time around.
I don't have anything against the SAMOLED displays but, I would personally prefer a sharper image to a more saturated image.
AT&T Atrix 4g user here...having a tough time deciding what to upgrade to as well. I've toyed with the idea of the One X and the SGS3 but neither excites me too much. Optimus G is very temping from a hardware perspective, but LG's lack of update support and a locked bootloader are a real put off. Will probably just end up grabbing an sgs3 because it will have the most rom support of any at&t phone.
I would prefer a nexus...but I just can't afford to spend $350+ on a phone.
My family plan on AT&T is breaking up. I've decided to go T mobile prepaid with the new Nexus, my dad, getting a job at US Cellular, will get a free plan there along with a $200 discount (he chose the S2) and my mom is sticking with AT&T for the iphone 5
Well good riddance, I had no service in various parts of school and at the local mall
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
jhotmann said:
AT&T Atrix 4g user here...having a tough time deciding what to upgrade to as well. I've toyed with the idea of the One X and the SGS3 but neither excites me too much. Optimus G is very temping from a hardware perspective, but LG's lack of update support and a locked bootloader are a real put off. Will probably just end up grabbing an sgs3 because it will have the most rom support of any at&t phone.
I would prefer a nexus...but I just can't afford to spend $350+ on a phone.
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I would wait for a little while at least and see if the Optimus G gets an unlocked bootloader.. it would be godmode then. But, I have to wait till Dec 1st anyway.
gagdude said:
My family plan on AT&T is breaking up. I've decided to go T mobile prepaid with the new Nexus, my dad, getting a job at US Cellular, will get a free plan there along with a $200 discount (he chose the S2) and my mom is sticking with AT&T for the iphone 5
Well good riddance, I had no service in various parts of school and at the local mall
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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Not entirely a bad thing.. Tmo has great selection of phones and AFAIK is a little more open with bootloaders and stuff.
I'm only getting the Nexus 4 because my current phone is pretty beaten and battered by now. (not to mention 2 years old)
.
Hi people,
My wife and i both have notes. I'm rooted and have been running JB ever since the first leak.
My wife's is totally stock, running ics.
She's fed up of waiting for it, and before you all start flaming, she is a typical user who doesn't want to root her device to get the latest os that people in Trinidad and Tobago or some other back end country are enjoying (her words not mine)
Now whether its all crapsungs fault or her carriers I don't know, but at this rate her contract upgrade will be upon her before she even gets jelly bean (due In august!!!) and I doubt she'll stay with android.
Personally I'm beginning to loose faith in Android and the fragmentation of its OS
The most used version is GB still!!!
Apps are becoming ridiculously large and people with older devices who are not fortunate enough to get the latest shiny device are really being left behind, through no fault of their own.
Google really needs to rethink the speed at which it releases its newest os, because they are leaving the majority of its users behind because of its feature race/war with apple.
People who I talked into buying android devices are ditching them at the earliest opportunity for an iPhone.
Wake up Google or you will lose a lot of users
Rant over
why dont you stick to google nexus phones just like apple fans stuck with iphone^_-
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Kisses99 said:
why dont you stick to google nexus phones just like apple fans stuck with iphone^_-
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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This answer might be considered standard from now on to every thread, question and rambling comparation of iPhone (6device company) and Android (+1000device not-a-single-company). Full stop.
Flashing a ROM in Odin does not need root :|
My thoughts
The most used version is GB still!!!
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Your Point? Nokia 1110 is the most used mobile phone. How many have you seen using that nowadays?
Apps are becoming ridiculously large and people with older devices who are not fortunate enough to get the latest shiny device are really being left behind, through no fault of their own.
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Click to collapse
It's nobody's fault.
Google really needs to rethink the speed at which it releases its newest os, because they are leaving the majority of its users behind because of its feature race/war with apple.
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Click to collapse
I AGREE 110% WITH YOU ON THIS.
People who I talked into buying android devices are ditching them at the earliest opportunity for an iPhone.
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It took 2 years from Single Core to Dual, but less than 6 months from proper Quad Cores to First Octa Core unveiled.
I used to think investing this many on a mobile phone keep me not in Enthusiast but in mainstream category for atleast 2-3 years. Not 8 months after purchase, it already feel cheap.
At least with iPhone, you have the peace of mind that if you got screwed, so are others, and pain won't resurface until a year or so.
But with Android, its like, you invest 500 Bucks on a phone and 30 minutes later, a new phone twice as powerful for 550 is unveiled set to release 2 months later.
Wake up Google or you will lose a lot of users
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Sadly, Stockholm Syndrome is a little wider than you think.
lol stockholm syndrome. Never heard of it that way with devices/product lock-in. Gave me quite a laugh, cause it could be true. Bit drastic but whatever.
Good thing Apple did push the envelope rushing android and other mobile manufacturers into better areas. Since they lost momentum I hope the Androids momentum continues.
On topic, there is another factor slowing multicountry roll outs, thats the countries themselves, so its not necessary Sammies fault one country is faster then others, go blame your countries for unable to keep up with Trini-Bego
Basically, you have just one problem and that is, updates are not fast enough? That isn't Google's fault at all. OEM's get the source code for the new OS earlier it is made publicly accessible (usually 1-2 weeks after announcement). It is the OEMs which insist of adding more 'features' and bugs and then taking time to release it. If you're using a carrier-subsidised phone, add another six months to it.
In short, get a nexus.
Namanarusia said:
I AGREE 110% WITH YOU ON THIS.
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I don't. The current speed is good. I really don't care if people get upset they are "left behind" (they're really not, as long as you have at least ICS app compatibility is very very good). If you want the latest and the greatest of Android, get a Nexus or a device that's well supported by the community or manufacturer. Samsung also seems to keep their high end devices updated very well these days. Our Notes have been taken all the way from GB to JB and the delay of updates keeps getting smaller.
As said before, you don't need root to flash stock updates. Carriers delay the updates a lot, so just do it yourself. There are plenty of guides out there and it's not hard unless you are computerphobic or something.
Well i kind of agree with you but if a person is too hungry for updates. There always are the custom roms. I am a tw fan and i keep my phone stock but when i get bore or anything i try the custom and use it for a week or two.
So android basically is not locked up. U always have ways out. Good thibg about android is that u always get what google has to offer and plus the OEM update is a bonus.
I like to stay with samsung because of this fact.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
iPhone = One manufacturer, one OS, each iPhone (3g, s, 4s, 5) will run the same official shyt apple gives them
Android = Several manufacturers, several options, several price groups, several specs
Apple = MoFo autocrat
Android = Democracy
------
Google really needs to rethink the speed at which it releases its newest os, because they are leaving the majority of its users behind because of its feature race/war with apple.
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Click to collapse
Android users would take it as a compliment. Android is evolving faster - open source - :thumbup:
kingears said:
she is a typical user who doesn't want to root her device to get the latest os that people in Trinidad and Tobago or some other back end country are enjoying
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Since when you need root to flash official XXLSZ for Germany via Odin? You don't even loose warranty...
kingears said:
Now whether its all crapsungs fault or her carriers I don't know
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Then why you're whining when you have no idea what you're talking about?
kingears said:
The most used version is GB still!!!
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So? many people still use old phones and they don't want to change them
kingears said:
Wake up Google or you will lose a lot of users
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Yes, because it's Google's not OEMs' fault that they can't keep up with updates
kingears said:
Apps are becoming ridiculously large and people with older devices who are not fortunate enough to get the latest shiny device are really being left behind, through no fault of their own
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Click to collapse
A moment of realisation, why the hell am I responding to a troll?
I'm saying that most android users no nothing about Odin or rooting, that's my point, they are completely reliant upon kies or ota updates being pushed out by the carrier once they've finished adding bloat.
Obviously having an opinion that is different to yours makes me a troll lol, what has this site come too :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Blaming Google and Android that developers make more sophisticated apps requiring better phones and saying it's bad because people can't run them on their old phones isn't an opinion - it's a sign of incredible ignorance or trolling, I assumed you are trolling (or you rant for ranting) but so be it, you're an ignorant, now please go back to using Windows 98, many people still use less than 1 GHz processor PCs so making Windows 8 is stupid, eh?
redundant ..as this reply
Gambolputty said:
Blaming Google and Android that developers make more sophisticated apps requiring better phones and saying it's bad because people can't run them on their old phones isn't an opinion - it's a sign of incredible ignorance or trolling, I assumed you are trolling (or you rant for ranting) but so be it, you're an ignorant, now please go back to using Windows 98, many people still use less than 1 GHz processor PCs so making Windows 8 is stupid, eh?
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And you don't think that this will alienate people from android? If you look in the play store most comments for apps are about the size of them.
As the thread title says, these are my observations after using android for 5 years, I'm entitled to my opinion, as are you, but coming in here and personally attacking me is unacceptable.
Kisses99 said:
why dont you stick to google nexus phones just like apple fans stuck with iphone^_-
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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Because a phone with a battery that cannot be removed is unacceptable, to me anyway.
What happens when the battery is knackered? The phone is redundant.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
warfareonly said:
Basically, you have just one problem and that is, updates are not fast enough? That isn't Google's fault at all. OEM's get the source code for the new OS earlier it is made publicly accessible (usually 1-2 weeks after announcement). It is the OEMs which insist of adding more 'features' and bugs and then taking time to release it. If you're using a carrier-subsidised phone, add another six months to it.
In short, get a nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As above
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
pboesboes said:
I don't. The current speed is good. I really don't care if people get upset they are "left behind" (they're really not, as long as you have at least ICS app compatibility is very very good). If you want the latest and the greatest of Android, get a Nexus or a device that's well supported by the community or manufacturer. Samsung also seems to keep their high end devices updated very well these days. Our Notes have been taken all the way from GB to JB and the delay of updates keeps getting smaller.
As said before, you don't need root to flash stock updates. Carriers delay the updates a lot, so just do it yourself. There are plenty of guides out there and it's not hard unless you are computerphobic or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been rooting android devices for 5 yrs, I am merely trying to make a point from the point of view of a normal user. People who root and put custom roms on their device are in the minority, in the grand scheme of things.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
kingears said:
As above
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
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You can't have everything, mate. Somewhere, you have to make compromises. Where you make compromises is your decision.
Also, inbuilt non-removable batteries can be replaced. Only difference is, the service centre will be doing the replacement instead of you.
warfareonly said:
You can't have everything, mate. Somewhere, you have to make compromises. Where you make compromises is your decision.
Also, inbuilt non-removable batteries can be replaced. Only difference is, the service centre will be doing the replacement instead of you.
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Oh I totally agree I can't have everything, life is a compromise.
I just think Google is risking losing out on a lot of 'regular' customers because of its business model.
I stand corrected on the in-built batteries, but then your left with no device whilst its replaced, or not i don't know how long it takes.
Plus I don't think we have service centres in the UK???
Easier to just go to a shop and get a replacement battery there and then.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app