Related
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.
almostinsane said:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.
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More beta BS. I'll sell you a car but we only completed the frame.
Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.
Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
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_RTFM_ said:
Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
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LMAO!
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i dont understand what will make it "ready" if they are planning on eventually releasing it what will keep it from being ported to phones then. If its a matter of incompleteness then what's changed since Cupcake which everyone agrees was more .8 than 1.0. Releasing it to dev's will allow for bugfixes and tweaks to get merged upstream.
It will leak eventually. It always does...
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
Yea I dont understand google some times. I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.
They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?
This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO
As much of a ROM guy as I am, I admit this makes sense from a business stand point. Google makes $ from licensing and distribution (with regards to Android). The hacker communities do not make up said market for the most part.
The worst thing companies combat these days is negative publicity.
I owned an iPhone, two iterations, the 3G and the original. Why did my mother never purchase one, nor my sister? Simply because of how locked down they are due to MY advice. Were they ever going to buy said device due to their hackability? Hell no. But because I said it was sh**** that Apple locks their stuff down so much, they declined to buy said hardware.
Releasing the software for Google could have a lot of negative effects on a BRAND NEW operating system for a BRAND NEW market for Google. If people are throwing this on phones, you search it out on the internet, and everything is Honeycomb this sucks, and honeycomb that sucks, due to people using it on phones, most people who try to do basic research, like my mother, or sister,
will only see "THIS SUCKS".
Just my 2c, but I can see their stand point. Until they can find a way to keep it off the phones, I see this as an issue for google.
~m
familiarstranger said:
They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?
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Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
Sent via EVO
thegeektern said:
I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.
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My understanding of that article is that Google doesn't feel its ready for phones. It's not that its not ready for tablets. They understand that they won't be able to stop people from using HC on phones, but trying to stave off the inevitable...
this HC thing looks like crap.... oh.. on my phone. In the end.. we are talking about a company here.. a company that needs to keep it's image.. and products.. (or software as you may call it).. as good as possible.
I don't think it's the best move Google could have made, but I think Google should do things in it's best interest to keep itself as a company in good standing. Long and short of it.. if things go south for google.. we'll all be unhappy. Just getting things out for the sake of allowing devs to play doesn't mean its the most sound decision for the company making it.
Yes, I know.. it's 'open source', but it is still a work-product. I think it's also entirely likely this is just a marketing ploy to say 'we told you so'.. and then it will get leaked and everything will go back to normal. But I still think people often forget that this is still a company that has to keep itself together to survive.
EDIT: So many things get written in the same time when you respond to a post! It seems as though I am joining the choir of.. this isn't so bad.
Sirchuk said:
This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO
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Well that hasn't stopped devs on xda porting it already - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=978939
Darn you almostinsane, I was just about to post this but you beat me to it!
Its really unfortunate that Google is doing this, whatever happened to a completely open source OS? In my honest opinion I think they should release it to the public and let the various devs have at it and see what can be improved and take those improvements into consideration for the next release of Android. If the OS was only meant for tablets who is to say that x developer can port it to a handheld flawlessly? It would be a HUGE leap ahead for us and for big ol' G.
Either way, it'll happen with or without Google releasing the source as our one dev spacemoose1 has shown us with making a near perfect port to the Samsung tab of honeycomb.
Stinks money is such an issue, Google doesn't really need anymore haha.
Done with my rant now
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Another business reason for this decision: Google may not have programmed Honeycomb well.
An obvious(?) repercussion for grimy source code going public is more bashing of Honeycomb's alleged "beta-ness". The more app developers that use the ...poisonous open-source code, the more ...poisoned apps there will be.
Or, they want to curb full-blown Honeycomb from appearing on devices other than the Xoom for just a little longer.
you're right. I just hate that its true. Your sig shows you remember the G1 days when we were all just so happy about what our phone COULD do. It's gotten a lot whinnier around here since then.
Sirchuk said:
Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
Sent via EVO
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As a ROM enthusiast; yea this sucks. Business it's understandable; but as the former it doesn't make me happy.
My NC sorely needs a aosp honeycomb, HC's tablet interface is superior to even CM7 on it.
Honestly though it's a lot of speculation here on why, but it really just sounds like an excuse (Bad one) to quiet the devs while really being a straight business decision.
How is not releasing honeycomb aosp right away not being open? Would you like all your roms without SD card support right now? Honeycomb is most likely stable enough for normal use for the average consumer and Google had to make footprint in the tablet industry before ipad2 was announced. Things were obviously rushed so i rather wait for them get everything situated. I think this unfortunate news but I'm not gonna cry foul when its something that's probably for the better. Google has proven with each iteration of android they have released source so just be patient
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
almostinsane said:
Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.
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I don't understand the logic here. What alternative are you seeking? Take it back for the Galaxy 10.1? It runs the same OS. Take it back for an iPad? It runs a closed OS.
The AOSP release is delayed ... maybe. Why would you return your Xoom because of this?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App
We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3
I'll only pay it if it's pure Google and no more than 20$. Lol
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
No reason to pay for it. Androids kernel is based off Linux. Open source!
Google should force the hardware manufacturers to give them the drivers. Ya, I would say at this point in the game, with the dominance of Android, why not start playing hard ball with manufacturers and carriers? You don't even need the phone manufacturers support, since most of the components (chips, memory, screen, etc) are from various manufacturers, and not really the phone manufacturer. Just get the drivers from component makers directly.
Anyway, if one really had to pay. I think minor updates should be free, and major OS overhauls should have a minor fee, if at all. Personally, I would pay a small fee for major OS upgrades versus free for small updates.
Id be willing to pay a small amount over waiting months.
Trigger 3.3
I think there should be one ultimate phone. You know in the android which gets the fastest updates, oh wait isn't that a nexus? :O
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You start paying for this sort of thing and then they send out the dogs. Bad idea. I can't think of any companies that have done this but I'm sure there are major ones.
And. If the main os was optimized for users by the dev team and people that haven't bought the update them can be in trouble for stealing. Yeah they might try it but the push against would be stronger. And pirating phone stuff would be HUGE. Almost as big as movie or game s are.
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helllllllll no.
Only if its straitup aosp. And if we can get the God d*mn update the day Google released it. You know like 2.3 was realeased in December and some company's *cough*HTC*cough* didn't release it till today. And without new sense... smh -_-
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GreggoryD502 said:
We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3
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To answer. I wouldn't pay a dime. A device should work satisfactorily as advertised. If it does not then I choose to take matters into my own hands, either by getting another device or indulging in a community like this one. I just don't think it's as simple as your implying.
Money is a motivator for manufacturers and carriers, but only in the sense of how it impacts meeting deadlines and release schedules. No amount of theoretical payola from end users is going to change this. End users and their perceptions do matter, even to manufacturers. But we're kidding ourselves if we think that our goals here in a place like XDA represent anything remotely close to the majority. They do not.
Android brings an entirely different sort of OS ecosystem to the table than consumers have been accustomed to, and more importantly entirely different than what carriers and manufacturers are accustomed to.
Much of what we have seen in the past few years with regards slow or nonexistent updates has been due to how manufacturers initially approached Android as simply a way to stave off significant R&D. Manufacturers are doing better in this regard as of late, because the ecosystem as a whole is maturing. The market is now lucrative and extensive, but competition is rife.
It is these competitive forces AND ONLY THESE that will improve the situation. Indeed it can be readily argued that this above all else is what has made such update issues ameliorate themselves. The most jaded among us can certainly realize things are much better now for Android as a whole than they were a year ago. Orders of magnitude so!!
Even so, realize that manufacturers will only do what they deem is in their interests when developing for their products. No matter how capable the hardware, or how "open" the infrastructure, manufacturers are in this for profit (as well they should be). Many will realize that supporting existing hardware is in their best interest, but as we've seen in similar scenarios in the PC universe, they will do this to varying degrees and for their own reasons. Some will do better than others and perhaps some of that will play out well with end users and gain them loyal customers. It's as likely that customers will simply go elsewhere because they're enticed to do so. This simply isn't as simple a problem as it was when this whole Android sleighride started anymore.
Communities like XDA have a role to play, and the developers and their efforts made here recontribute to everyone involved. But lets not kid ourselves. The performance of most devices as they ship is, to varying degrees, satisfactory. Most users are not zealots (and lets be frank, most XDA people *ARE*), and many of the concerns expressed here are not only unrealistic they are pointless. It is difficult enough to come up with a concrete list of precisely why 2.3 is better than 2.2, or 2.1 amongst ourselves as it is. To most end users perception (and thus most manufacturers) these distinctions are trivial and meaningless.
XDA is a hacker's maven. An important one, and a valuable one to those of us who participate here. But Android itself is no longer *just* a hacker's wet dream. It's a commercial juggernaut of a platform that is living and thriving quite nicely with or without us as this stage.
I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.
doug2060 said:
I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.
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... Piracy?
I LIKE IT.
I will pay for it. Not to Samsung or t-mobile. I have $20 saved for the first developer who gets gingerbread working stable on our phone.
It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!
HyprGeek said:
It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!
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You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?
I wouldn't.
pvspencer22 said:
You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?
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yeah but how many go for the paid instead of free?
how do you feel about this deal?i personally think its a good move against i**** and microcrap
Agreed.
Sent from my LT15i using XDA App
Everybody says it's all about patents.
I just hope google doesn't favor moto devices over other brands regarding software updates
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wael hawa said:
I just hope google doesn't favor moto devices over other brands regarding software updates
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i dont think so.the source code is released to all at once
wael hawa said:
I just hope google doesn't favor moto devices over other brands regarding software updates
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it wont be any different to how the nexus series is now. Motorola will get the updates first purely because they run vanilla android, all the other phone manufacturers take longer because they add their own stuff in.
diggedy said:
it wont be any different to how the nexus series is now. Motorola will get the updates first purely because they run vanilla android, all the other phone manufacturers take longer because they add their own stuff in.
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i agree man.good point
It will be good for the US market, Motorola will sell like crazy, in Europe Russia Asia etc. it will not make much difference.. you'll see..
reptile64 said:
It will be good for the US market, Motorola will sell like crazy, in Europe Russia Asia etc. it will not make much difference.. you'll see..
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yes.your point sounds right
it isn't a direct problem for other productors...but probably motorola start to realize very competitive device, more appetible for people
wael hawa said:
I just hope google doesn't favor moto devices over other brands regarding software updates
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josephnero said:
i dont think so.the source code is released to all at once
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i hope so, but i'm not sure. correct me if I'm wrong but google didn't open the code of honeycomb at the moment, maybe tomorrow will not release all the code or will release after time...
we will see
Google hasn't opened up honeycomb but ice cream sandwich is open!
Sent from my DROID X2 using XDA App
Apparently the reason google didnt open source honeycomb is that it was an ugly bodge (the code), hacked together in a hurry to get a version that would work on tablets. Guess theyre embarrassed to let people see the mess.
Ice cream is basically honeycomb done *properly*, so that it scales across all devices and is maintainable into the future.
As far as the moto thing goes:
(1) My belief is that it's primarily for patents. Hoping that google will use them to provide umbrella coverage for other manufacturers...
(2) It's a good deal for moto - IMO they were doomed without this. They seem to make great hardware but then inevitably stick crappy software on their phones (blur is only the most recent example). Also bootloader lock-down hell and crappy update schedules. Hopefully google ownership will fix their shortcomings while keeping their strengths and i might actually be able to consider buying a moto phone at some point in my lifetime.
daveybaby said:
Apparently the reason google didnt open source honeycomb is that it was an ugly bodge (the code), hacked together in a hurry to get a version that would work on tablets. Guess theyre embarrassed to let people see the mess.
Ice cream is basically honeycomb done *properly*, so that it scales across all devices and is maintainable into the future.
As far as the moto thing goes:
(1) My belief is that it's primarily for patents. Hoping that google will use them to provide umbrella coverage for other manufacturers...
(2) It's a good deal for moto - IMO they were doomed without this. They seem to make great hardware but then inevitably stick crappy software on their phones (blur is only the most recent example). Also bootloader lock-down hell and crappy update schedules. Hopefully google ownership will fix their shortcomings while keeping their strengths and i might actually be able to consider buying a moto phone at some point in my lifetime.
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couldnt state it better myself
Ok what if google can get updates out like apple does to its devices. Notice sprint does not even have ics yet for the nexus s since sprint is launching the galery nexus soon so I bet sprint just only,let a few phone get the ics update as a beta if you will as then user would not buy the newer ics phone. So if google charged a small update fee provided your phone meets the requirements. Or why does google even allow all these add ons like sense and touchwiz. Why not have the pure google non skinned version for like a few dollars and if you want the custom sense then wait for htc samsung to release it a year later.... cough cough fryo.... cough cough gingerbread....
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Well to answer your question, nope, since we got amazing devs here to satisfy our quench for updating XD
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Fire n mage said:
Well to answer your question, nope, since we got amazing devs here to satisfy our quench for updating XD
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True for people who are rooted but what about the average non xda type of user who waits for offical ota?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
samsungd700 said:
True for people who are rooted but what about the average non xda type of user who waits for offical ota?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
those average non xda people dont even know root or the latest software means it more of a phone to call and text and browse internet. they dont care if their phone has the latest and greatest updates.
mark8503 said:
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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You buy the phone from apple, and they also make the software. We buy the phone from Samsung, and Google makes the software. Big difference. You seriously wouldn't shell out like 5 dollars to get ICS like 4 months ago, fully working and smooth? Gonna call bs on that.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
mark8503 said:
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
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I don't pay Apple for anyting. Lol
/trollface
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mark8503 said:
Defiantly not, why should we? You don't pay Apple for updates.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Sure you do its called OS/X.... which is i-os is somewhat based on...
muyoso said:
You buy the phone from apple, and they also make the software. We buy the phone from Samsung, and Google makes the software. Big difference. You seriously wouldn't shell out like 5 dollars to get ICS like 4 months ago, fully working and smooth? Gonna call bs on that.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
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Well i disagree on that one as Google does also makes phones called the Nexus and the Motorola Mobility line as Google no owns Moto Mobility. And from what i understand its the stuff like touchwiz and sense that make it harder to get the updates a quickly since the carriers must test everything for like 90 days or more and if it fails then they start the process from the beginning.
I say google should only have one uniform look to android like how apple does with i-os. (i however do not like apple as too expensive for the rich people) If you want a custom launcher like go you can download it but it would not be apart of any official rom from the maker / carrier.
thomasskull666 said:
I don't pay Apple for anyting. Lol
/trollface
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Lol I don't either. Meaning we don't buy it. PERIOD!!!!
samsungd700 said:
Sure you do its called OS/X.... which is i-os is somewhat based on...
Well i disagree on that one as Google does also makes phones called the Nexus and the Motorola Mobility line as Google no owns Moto Mobility. And from what i understand its the stuff like touchwiz and sense that make it harder to get the updates a quickly since the carriers must test everything for like 90 days or more and if it fails then they start the process from the beginning.
I say google should only have one uniform look to android like how apple does with i-os. (i however do not like apple as too expensive for the rich people) If you want a custom launcher like go you can download it but it would not be apart of any official rom from the maker / carrier.
Click to expand...
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i have to say; it looks like youve just taken random sentences and thrown them together here.
austin420 said:
i have to say; it looks like youve just taken random sentences and thrown them together here.
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+1
And for real there is a Galery Nexus coming soon? I will compare it with the Galaxy Nexus to check which one is better.
And back to the thread. I won't pay, but there is people which pay to others for root their phones, so I think they will pay.
Sent from my Epic 4g with CM9
csmasn said:
+1
And for real there is a Galery Nexus coming soon? I will compare it with the Galaxy Nexus to check which one is better.
And back to the thread. I won't pay, but there is people which pay to others for root their phones, so I think they will pay.
Sent from my Epic 4g with CM9
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Click to collapse
i would pay for official updates if it means they come as soon as google releases them. perhaps google should not release any updates until all carriers and manufacturer are ready to push them to all phones that meet the requirements. Do what microsoft does and they just push them to all phones at the same time so the carriers dont have a say in the matter... sort of like windows update on the pc. just check for the update and then install... carriers and manufacturer have too much power to decide who gets what...
I'd love to have mine done in a timely manor. I hear it's nice this time of year!
NO way wouldn't pay! Plus its totally unrealistic considering the different devices and bloatware! Apple has one device line to update! But don't forget Apple owns the software! You get caught messing with it they "Kill" your phone!
MTD (EL30)
BLENDED CLEAN GB 1.12 With Various mods
SHADOW V3.0
(in the voice of lil john)
YAAAYUUUUUHH!!!!
Robalboa said:
NO way wouldn't pay! Plus its totally unrealistic considering the different devices and bloatware! Apple has one device line to update! But don't forget Apple owns the software! You get caught messing with it they "Kill" your phone!
MTD (EL30)
BLENDED CLEAN GB 1.12 With Various mods
SHADOW V3.0
(in the voice of lil john)
YAAAYUUUUUHH!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well how does microsoft do it then with windows phone 7 and with the pc's? As long as if the phones meet the minimum requirements then good to go. This would work simply because it would get rid of the custom interfaces from the makers like htc sense or samsung touchwiz. If you want those they would only be available as a download apk from the market like how go launcher and adw desktop are. Google needs to take a stand on the custom overlays and how they devalue android with lack of updates as the makers think somehow that sense or touchwiz add somesort of value to the phone when in fact it does not. android 4 is perfect interface and with android 2.x and 3.x its good enough or download some aftermarket one like go launcher. Otherwise i would pay for updates like how i do on my laptop. they can also make money off the updates as well like $25 per phone again as long as it meets the requirements. and now google owns motorola mobility so google is now just like appple. So goolge / Moto Mobility does control the hardware and software
samsungd700 said:
well how does microsoft do it then with windows phone 7 and with the pc's? As long as if the phones meet the minimum requirements then good to go. This would work simply because it would get rid of the custom interfaces from the makers like htc sense or samsung touchwiz. If you want those they would only be available as a download apk from the market like how go launcher and adw desktop are. Google needs to take a stand on the custom overlays and how they devalue android with lack of updates as the makers think somehow that sense or touchwiz add somesort of value to the phone when in fact it does not. android 4 is perfect interface and with android 2.x and 3.x its good enough or download some aftermarket one like go launcher. Otherwise i would pay for updates like how i do on my laptop. they can also make money off the updates as well like $25 per phone again as long as it meets the requirements. and now google owns motorola mobility so google is now just like appple. So goolge / Moto Mobility does control the hardware and software
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Click to collapse
who is to say that custom launchers are devaluing android? if anything, they bring more to the table. i think a lot of the people here would say that they prefer some of the asthetics and options that touchwiz includes. i cant speak to sense or motoblur as i havent used them.
No. Just like I would not pay extra for gas to have someone else come out and pump it for me. In both cases we already pay too much, for gas, for the phones, service and insurance. If all phones were free I would think about it. But you pay more for a better phone, it damn well better be updated in a reasonable timely manner.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
The manufacturer should be providing timely updates as part of buying the phone. We should expect new versions of the OS until at least the EOL and then bugfixes and security updates for another two years past that as a minimum.
Now that we're done with fantasy land, I wouldn't mind paying a nominal charge for a version update provided that they have a stable bug-free version of the current OS. IMHO Samsung never got there with the Epic.
samsungd700 said:
True for people who are rooted but what about the average non xda type of user who waits for offical ota?
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The average non-xda user wouldn't know what 'stock' android is, and frankly, they probably wouldn't be impressed with it for this reason right here
--vvv---
austin420 said:
who is to say that custom launchers are devaluing android? if anything, they bring more to the table. i think a lot of the people here would say that they prefer some of the asthetics and options that touchwiz includes. i cant speak to sense or motoblur as i havent used them.
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Click to collapse
I haven't used Sense, but from my limited experience, Blur is horrid. TW smokes it by a mile. I enjoyed some of the features of Touchwiz, no joke.
And OP, while Google may now own Motorola Mobility, it doesn't mean they own all the hardware. It just means they kind of do with Motorola. They still don't with Samsung, HTC, LG, Sony, etc etc etc.
I'm still a firm believer the biggest reason Google bought Moto was for the patents, not to try and complete with Apple by owning both hardware/software.
EDIT: For the record, I think the number one way to go about the issue is this: all android phones, stock, come with their own skin out of the box by default. However, the user has the ability to go with stock Android upon bootup or something like that. Maybe a tutorial that guides users stating what that skin brings to the table. Maybe something saying here's what you'll have with the skin vs without it, and list off apps and features associated with it.
This way, us android-heads can get any phone we want with stock android, and the average user still has the same options as today.
I wanted to put something of worth within this thread as a conversation topic, but it has become rather vexing trying to pick apart the compilation of sentences that the OP's has been using lol, though me saying I mean no offense would not help I don't think heh.
In regards to paying for an upgrade, it does occur in iOS when the next incremental upgrades come to the iPod Touch Line, for iPhone's a user is guaranteed that update due to being on a monthly plan with their device unless that device is gradually replaced in which case it goes no further upgrade wise as there is a new iteration close to it in price and internal size, if iPad's are affected in the same way being on carrier/off carrier I'm unaware, I also haven't upgraded my iPod Touch in a long while either to test the validity of that, so I'm open to correction. Though iOS has been on 5.x for a bit anyways.
In this case.
Android lacks something iOS does in this case, uniformity, which is how Apple portrays their control over their platform and why it's so popular and simple to use, they limit what can be used and what is used and set a basis forward to keep compatibility in the long run. The Nexus Line is controlled by Google and their partner in each step of the way, more by Google however because they essentially get to pick and choose what they want which works well in the whole grand scheme of things, which means timely updates are to come. They don't have control over LG, HTC, Sony, or Samsung for that matter in their other endeavors in Android and what "crap"(lack of more proper word) that's proprietary they decide to put within the platform for the sake of bragging rights, they're their own entities which for the most part have added to the overall disconnection of Android across the board. Buying out that specific aspect of Motorola was a play for patents to avoid lawsuit not a play for control.
Saying you'd pay money for an update to Android on your phone becomes problematic, in our case, ICS. If you paid $10 because you to have the update when it came out, in the following months it'd be very likely it'd have problems, and you'd be the prime benefactor of said problems. You paid $10 for an update, now what about the update to address that issue? Or the update following that update to address the following issues? Or what if you paid for an update and never got an update in the long run, just for the sake of not having one?
Would those be paid as well? I'm only throwing forth baseless scenarios, because this arrives to the entitlement aspect of things. Paying to get an update makes you entitled to said update, when a company can G.A.F less about an older piece of hardware having support when they've devices in their minds which are twice as good as last years model. I understand where you're going with this thread but, paying for your update in software wouldn't make the fact that your phone is aging any better, nor would it make Android any more uniform, it'd only make it more annoying of a platform due to it. It's not a better alternative than just waiting it out on what you're currently using until you can upgrade your line to something new. Spending more money to have your phone officially supported is rather foolish. In my opinion though.
/endrant
And essentially the Epic isn't EOL/EOS. It just happens to be on it's last legs. So whether it's last update is stable or not won't matter at that point.
Hi people,
My wife and i both have notes. I'm rooted and have been running JB ever since the first leak.
My wife's is totally stock, running ics.
She's fed up of waiting for it, and before you all start flaming, she is a typical user who doesn't want to root her device to get the latest os that people in Trinidad and Tobago or some other back end country are enjoying (her words not mine)
Now whether its all crapsungs fault or her carriers I don't know, but at this rate her contract upgrade will be upon her before she even gets jelly bean (due In august!!!) and I doubt she'll stay with android.
Personally I'm beginning to loose faith in Android and the fragmentation of its OS
The most used version is GB still!!!
Apps are becoming ridiculously large and people with older devices who are not fortunate enough to get the latest shiny device are really being left behind, through no fault of their own.
Google really needs to rethink the speed at which it releases its newest os, because they are leaving the majority of its users behind because of its feature race/war with apple.
People who I talked into buying android devices are ditching them at the earliest opportunity for an iPhone.
Wake up Google or you will lose a lot of users
Rant over
why dont you stick to google nexus phones just like apple fans stuck with iphone^_-
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Kisses99 said:
why dont you stick to google nexus phones just like apple fans stuck with iphone^_-
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This answer might be considered standard from now on to every thread, question and rambling comparation of iPhone (6device company) and Android (+1000device not-a-single-company). Full stop.
Flashing a ROM in Odin does not need root :|
My thoughts
The most used version is GB still!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your Point? Nokia 1110 is the most used mobile phone. How many have you seen using that nowadays?
Apps are becoming ridiculously large and people with older devices who are not fortunate enough to get the latest shiny device are really being left behind, through no fault of their own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's nobody's fault.
Google really needs to rethink the speed at which it releases its newest os, because they are leaving the majority of its users behind because of its feature race/war with apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I AGREE 110% WITH YOU ON THIS.
People who I talked into buying android devices are ditching them at the earliest opportunity for an iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It took 2 years from Single Core to Dual, but less than 6 months from proper Quad Cores to First Octa Core unveiled.
I used to think investing this many on a mobile phone keep me not in Enthusiast but in mainstream category for atleast 2-3 years. Not 8 months after purchase, it already feel cheap.
At least with iPhone, you have the peace of mind that if you got screwed, so are others, and pain won't resurface until a year or so.
But with Android, its like, you invest 500 Bucks on a phone and 30 minutes later, a new phone twice as powerful for 550 is unveiled set to release 2 months later.
Wake up Google or you will lose a lot of users
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly, Stockholm Syndrome is a little wider than you think.
lol stockholm syndrome. Never heard of it that way with devices/product lock-in. Gave me quite a laugh, cause it could be true. Bit drastic but whatever.
Good thing Apple did push the envelope rushing android and other mobile manufacturers into better areas. Since they lost momentum I hope the Androids momentum continues.
On topic, there is another factor slowing multicountry roll outs, thats the countries themselves, so its not necessary Sammies fault one country is faster then others, go blame your countries for unable to keep up with Trini-Bego
Basically, you have just one problem and that is, updates are not fast enough? That isn't Google's fault at all. OEM's get the source code for the new OS earlier it is made publicly accessible (usually 1-2 weeks after announcement). It is the OEMs which insist of adding more 'features' and bugs and then taking time to release it. If you're using a carrier-subsidised phone, add another six months to it.
In short, get a nexus.
Namanarusia said:
I AGREE 110% WITH YOU ON THIS.
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I don't. The current speed is good. I really don't care if people get upset they are "left behind" (they're really not, as long as you have at least ICS app compatibility is very very good). If you want the latest and the greatest of Android, get a Nexus or a device that's well supported by the community or manufacturer. Samsung also seems to keep their high end devices updated very well these days. Our Notes have been taken all the way from GB to JB and the delay of updates keeps getting smaller.
As said before, you don't need root to flash stock updates. Carriers delay the updates a lot, so just do it yourself. There are plenty of guides out there and it's not hard unless you are computerphobic or something.
Well i kind of agree with you but if a person is too hungry for updates. There always are the custom roms. I am a tw fan and i keep my phone stock but when i get bore or anything i try the custom and use it for a week or two.
So android basically is not locked up. U always have ways out. Good thibg about android is that u always get what google has to offer and plus the OEM update is a bonus.
I like to stay with samsung because of this fact.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
iPhone = One manufacturer, one OS, each iPhone (3g, s, 4s, 5) will run the same official shyt apple gives them
Android = Several manufacturers, several options, several price groups, several specs
Apple = MoFo autocrat
Android = Democracy
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Google really needs to rethink the speed at which it releases its newest os, because they are leaving the majority of its users behind because of its feature race/war with apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android users would take it as a compliment. Android is evolving faster - open source - :thumbup:
kingears said:
she is a typical user who doesn't want to root her device to get the latest os that people in Trinidad and Tobago or some other back end country are enjoying
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Since when you need root to flash official XXLSZ for Germany via Odin? You don't even loose warranty...
kingears said:
Now whether its all crapsungs fault or her carriers I don't know
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Then why you're whining when you have no idea what you're talking about?
kingears said:
The most used version is GB still!!!
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Click to collapse
So? many people still use old phones and they don't want to change them
kingears said:
Wake up Google or you will lose a lot of users
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Click to collapse
Yes, because it's Google's not OEMs' fault that they can't keep up with updates
kingears said:
Apps are becoming ridiculously large and people with older devices who are not fortunate enough to get the latest shiny device are really being left behind, through no fault of their own
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A moment of realisation, why the hell am I responding to a troll?
I'm saying that most android users no nothing about Odin or rooting, that's my point, they are completely reliant upon kies or ota updates being pushed out by the carrier once they've finished adding bloat.
Obviously having an opinion that is different to yours makes me a troll lol, what has this site come too :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:
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Blaming Google and Android that developers make more sophisticated apps requiring better phones and saying it's bad because people can't run them on their old phones isn't an opinion - it's a sign of incredible ignorance or trolling, I assumed you are trolling (or you rant for ranting) but so be it, you're an ignorant, now please go back to using Windows 98, many people still use less than 1 GHz processor PCs so making Windows 8 is stupid, eh?
redundant ..as this reply
Gambolputty said:
Blaming Google and Android that developers make more sophisticated apps requiring better phones and saying it's bad because people can't run them on their old phones isn't an opinion - it's a sign of incredible ignorance or trolling, I assumed you are trolling (or you rant for ranting) but so be it, you're an ignorant, now please go back to using Windows 98, many people still use less than 1 GHz processor PCs so making Windows 8 is stupid, eh?
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And you don't think that this will alienate people from android? If you look in the play store most comments for apps are about the size of them.
As the thread title says, these are my observations after using android for 5 years, I'm entitled to my opinion, as are you, but coming in here and personally attacking me is unacceptable.
Kisses99 said:
why dont you stick to google nexus phones just like apple fans stuck with iphone^_-
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because a phone with a battery that cannot be removed is unacceptable, to me anyway.
What happens when the battery is knackered? The phone is redundant.
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warfareonly said:
Basically, you have just one problem and that is, updates are not fast enough? That isn't Google's fault at all. OEM's get the source code for the new OS earlier it is made publicly accessible (usually 1-2 weeks after announcement). It is the OEMs which insist of adding more 'features' and bugs and then taking time to release it. If you're using a carrier-subsidised phone, add another six months to it.
In short, get a nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As above
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pboesboes said:
I don't. The current speed is good. I really don't care if people get upset they are "left behind" (they're really not, as long as you have at least ICS app compatibility is very very good). If you want the latest and the greatest of Android, get a Nexus or a device that's well supported by the community or manufacturer. Samsung also seems to keep their high end devices updated very well these days. Our Notes have been taken all the way from GB to JB and the delay of updates keeps getting smaller.
As said before, you don't need root to flash stock updates. Carriers delay the updates a lot, so just do it yourself. There are plenty of guides out there and it's not hard unless you are computerphobic or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been rooting android devices for 5 yrs, I am merely trying to make a point from the point of view of a normal user. People who root and put custom roms on their device are in the minority, in the grand scheme of things.
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kingears said:
As above
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You can't have everything, mate. Somewhere, you have to make compromises. Where you make compromises is your decision.
Also, inbuilt non-removable batteries can be replaced. Only difference is, the service centre will be doing the replacement instead of you.
warfareonly said:
You can't have everything, mate. Somewhere, you have to make compromises. Where you make compromises is your decision.
Also, inbuilt non-removable batteries can be replaced. Only difference is, the service centre will be doing the replacement instead of you.
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Click to collapse
Oh I totally agree I can't have everything, life is a compromise.
I just think Google is risking losing out on a lot of 'regular' customers because of its business model.
I stand corrected on the in-built batteries, but then your left with no device whilst its replaced, or not i don't know how long it takes.
Plus I don't think we have service centres in the UK???
Easier to just go to a shop and get a replacement battery there and then.
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