Database Users

A few notes about the camera (it isn't bad)

Lots of people are unhappy with the camera on the Z. I'm into photography and I thought I'd have a play with it to see what I could find out. I thought I'd post this as it may help people get more out of the camera and understand why they are getting bad results. I was initially very unhappy with low light shots, especially compared with my old Xperia Arc. I am now getting vastly better results.
1. "Superior Auto Mode" SUCKS. Really, really sucks.
Why?
First, it applies some sort of hyper-aggressive noise reduction/sharpening to most images. This means that even if you get a good capture, this mode then does its best to ruin it for you by artificially stuffing up details and actually adding noise (via over-aggressive processing).
Second, it does really stupid things with ISO. You may notice that on manual settings, ISO only goes up to 1600 (which is still way too high for this sensor). However, in auto, the camera will go up to at least ISO 2500 (confirmed by checking exif data). This is extremely bad for image quality and introduces huge amounts of colour noise which simply cannot be overcome by post processing. In addition, in auto mode the camera is very "high ISO happy", so it will bump up the ISO very quickly even in moderately good conditions.
What's more, while you can't use the (dubious) image stabilisation at manual ISO settings, you can you HDR. So you can get good night or dusk shots by using HDR and (say) ISO 400 in normal mode, which I deal with below.
Overall, I would avoid this mode unless you are in bright conditions or just need to get a basic shot without caring about quality.
2. HDR mode is real, but the images it takes are not taken simultaneously.
I'm sure I read Sony claiming that the sensor was in some way three layered and therefore that it could take HDR shots instantly. The reality is that while HDR mode works (weakly), it actually takes three separate shots over the space of maybe half a second.
The problem with this is that if things are moving in your image, they will either blur or have ghosts of themselves in the photo.
I verified this by taking an HDR shot of traffic at an intersection. I was able to see very dark and very light 'ghost' images of moving cars, even though the rest of the image was sharp and clear.
From this I am guessing that Sony has implemented an edge-matching algorithm to process the three exposures into one. This can cope with some camera shake, but cannot cope with actual fast moving objects. This theory is supported by the fact that the image size drops by one megapixel for HDR, i.e., the camera is giving itself a "border" to allow for shake.
It is also apparent that the level of HDR processing is very weak compared to what is possible with a proper camera and proper software. The exposure range and the amount of weight given to the high and low range exposures is very weak (confirmed by the level of saturation of the "ghost" cars in my test image, which were fairly faint).
Others have reported that the video quality suffers with HDR on. This is consistent with the HDR having to take triple the exposures then process them on the fly.
3. Image stabilisation is a gimmick
In manual mode, you can turn on image stabilisation. However, when you do this, you can't set a manual ISO level and can't use HDR. This strongly suggests that all that "image stabilisation" is really doing is messing with your ISO settings (as per "superior auto mode") to increase shutter speed in difficult conditions by ramping up ISO. This, of course, destroys quality.
4. You can use normal mode to control the ISO and get much better results, including at night
If you choose "normal" shooting mode, and then go to settings and scroll down, you will find an option to set the ISO of the camera manually.
Playing with this, I have been able to get much, much better results from the camera than are achievable either in "superior auto" mode or in any mode where ISO is set to "auto".
Specifically, I would say that the camera produces fair to excellent results (for a phone camera) at any ISO below 400, and acceptable results at 800 in some conditions. However, 1600 produces very noisy images and should be avoided if you are after image quality (as should 800, to be safe). That is consistent with the size of the camera and sensor. Even fairly good consumer DSLRs struggle at or above 1600, so it is not surprising that a tiny phone camera struggles at or above 800.
Using the camera at ISO 400 I have been able to take shots in very dark conditions which look great and show relatively little noise.
The lens is f/2.4 at its fastest, which is not ultra fast, but fast enough to capture a decent amount of light at ISO 400 or 800. You are better off sticking to these ISO levels and trying to physically stabilise your camera (i.e., balance it on something solid) than killing you image quality with higher ISO settings.
A comparison suggests that "normal" mode doesn't apply the stupid levels of sharpening and noise reduction (so called) that superior auto mode does. Shots seem to retain most of the natural sharpness and detail that the camera is clearly capable of producing.
5. The flash is bad but better than most
Direct flash generally sucks, and mobile phone flashes generally suck. Combine them for a lot of suckiness.
However, Sony has done a solid job with this flash, given the baseline difficulties with any direct flash. It doesn't seem to blast its subject and it seems to be at a low enough level to let ambient light fill in the background. I was able to get acceptable results in normal mode at ISO 400.
6. Metering
The metering on the camera is quite aggressive in its centre-weighted variation. If you are finding that photos of a light or dark object are causing the rest of the scene to blow out or go too dark, try the full averaged metering mode (which is slightly dark, but does a decent job).
7. My suggested settings
A. Daytime: Normal mode; ISO 100; HDR off (to avoid ghosts on moving objects); flash off.
B. Nightime: Normal mode; ISO 400; HDR off unless taking pics of buildings and holding camera v steady; metering full scene; flash off.
C. I want to produce horrible photos then complain: Superior Auto Mode.
I hope this helps someone! Using setting A above this camera produces some stunning pictures in good light. Using setting B it produces very good night pictures for a camera phone, particularly if you shoot at the highest resolution then resize later.

One other thing - what I would like to see Sony do to improve the camera so that users get the most out of it...
1. Dramatically reduce the default image processing in auto mode
2. Add a smart ISO setting, where the user can control the maximum ISO that the camera will select on "auto ISO". E.g. allow the user to set ISO800 as a cap, but have the camera use a lower setting if suitable for the conditions.
3. Add advanced options to allow the user to contol noise reduction and sharpening.
4. (In fantasy land) add a full manual mode.

What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?

JPWOA said:
What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that's focus mode (which I don't have strong views about - I prefer single point for more control, personally). I.e., the way in which the camera picks the subject which will be in focus.
I'm talking about exposure, i.e., how the camera works out how bright or dark the scene is. In "normal" mode, if you go to settings, then scroll down, you will see a metering option. The choices are centre, average or spot.
I'm suggesting that at night "average" will be most useful as "centre" or "spot" take a limited part of the image and base exposure on that. At night a limited part of the image is likely to be extremely dark or light, which will make the exposure go nuts.
During the day "centre" works ok for specific subjects, and average is good for evenly lit scenes.

Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?

caitsith01 said:
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Agreed on pretty much most of what you say, in addition other camera apps that allow you to save 100% jpg quality or save as png also help.
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
Apart from that some good information shared.
---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------
juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no, because Sony are still processing the image to create the jpg files, and not saving at 100%. Think of RAW, I always shoot in RAW because then I am in control of the processing on the image WB,Sharpness,Brightness... not my camera.
Burst mode is great, because the Sony algorithms don't have time to apply all the settings to all the photos before they are written, so just pretty much write the file (like jpg in raw jpg). So a combo of all these things will significantly help further. To better this even further there are other camera apps that allow you to save at 100% jpg or even png for RAW like capture to a lesser extent

danw_oz said:
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.

juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen that thread - in my opinion the burst pics look similar to those I have been able to achieve in normal mode, i.e., nice clean edges, not a lot of detail loss, not a lot of noise added by over-sharpening.
I imagine the reason is that the camera isn't fast enough to ruin... er... process pictures when shooting in burst mode. Burst mode has some resolution limitations, though, plus who wants 10 copies of every photo?
To be honest many of the daytime shots I've taken look pretty close to what you would expect from an enthusiast compact, like one of the Leica-Panasonic or Canon G-series cameras. Not quite there, but close (and obviously lacking optical zoom).

Well i don't know but i took some samples for a quick compare. Though even the BURST Mode pics are a bit smaller in size, they give you still the most detail and Pictures overall look much better. That's at least my impression.
1- Burst Mode
2- Snap Camera (PlayStore)
3- Supperior Auto
4- Normal Mode ISO 100
5- HDR Kamera (PlayStore)
Decide for yourself.

caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am talk serious gear, not cheap 50mm lenses. And I didn't ask you if you could find cheap lenses, I asked you how many lenses you have faster than f2.4.
For solid low light performance, I would not be using a smart phone, nor would most others I am sure. Most people are using phones for snap shots nothing serious, or to capture that once off shot because you didn't have a better camera on hand.
Not any phones that I am aware of below f2.0

caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again

Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
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totally agree, most of all on superior auto...
normal mode, same photo,auto is 400 iso...manual iso 200 (just a little darker) superior auto 800/1600 iso
superior auto can be good only on daylight (difference between 40 and 100 is really small)

sacredsoul said:
Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!

fartlec said:
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that you can resolve those nameplates better in the burst mode picture, even though I think it might be slightly lower resolution (?). The "normal" mode shot looks softer, but looks to me like it still has less aggressive noise reduction/sharpening than the "superior auto" shot. I would like to know what ISO these were at - unfortunately the EXIF data has been stripped out.
Another area where the three pictures are noticeably different is the curtains in the lowest row of windows. The burst mode output is noticeably sharper. Normal mode is a bit more smudged and has the characteristic "painted" look of over-aggressive noise reduction, and superior auto mode is even worse in this regard (as well as the colour being completely different).
I obviously don't know exactly what's happening inside the camera, my original post is just what I've tried to work out from playing around with different settings.
I can say for sure that there was a drastic difference in noise for me taking the same dark night scene using superior auto and then manually dialling down the ISO. Using superior auto the noise in darker areas was so bad that the image was unusable, even for social media etc, whereas at ISO 400 it was acceptable and could have come from a reasonable quality compact camera. It may be that the ISO level is the primary problem, and that the aggressive denoise/sharpen algorithms make the problem worse (because running these on a super-noisy picture will produce messy results). So it might be running the same level of denoise etc in both modes, but because superior auto produces such messy base images the filters then make the pictures look shocking.
It really needs a "raw" mode, either producing real RAW images or producing "straight out of camera" JPEGS with minimal filtering.

caitsith01 said:
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah thank you. So for indoor pictures, if I wanted to see the preview, I don't have a choice but to increase ISO? That sucks really

I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP

sillypilot said:
I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exemples ?

I also use the 4.2 camera. For me it's faster and the photos it makes are on par with the ones made using burst.
I've patched the 4.2 camera to support all of the resolutions Z/ZL support (9, 13, etc).
I'm uploading it now.
Update: here's the link

A few shots from yesterday.
At the car
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20Burstmode.JPG
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20iAuto.jpg
At my parkingspace
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20iAuto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Burst.JPG
Normal, 100ISO, HDR On
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Normal%20100ISO%20HDR%20On.jpg
Window shot
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Auto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Burst.JPG
So what do you think? There are some differences between the pictures indeed.

[PHOTOS] Post your Z2 shots here - My review is up!

This is the Sony Xperia Z2 user and reviewer camera thread
Xperia Z2 camera specifications
1/2,3"m 20.7MP Sony Exmor RS BSI sensor
5248x3936 pixel resolution at full size, 3840x2160 in Superior Auto Mode
F2.0 G-lens, 27mm wide angle
BiONZ image signal processor
HDR photo and video
4k video recording, [email protected]
My quick camera review
All my shots are available on my flickr page, full size with EXIF info here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/
Sony mobile sensors are a hit nowadays, from iPhones to LG, Oppo, OnePlus or last year's Samsung flagships, Sony's backside-illuminated (BSI) camera tech is wildly popular for it's excellent per pixel sharpness, good dynamic range and small physical size. Sony struggled however in the past to make it's Exmors work for their own Xperia smartphones, the Z had quite soft images and the Z1, while upped sensor size to 1/2.3" and megapixel count to 20, suffered from over-processing and minor lens inconsistencies. Have Sony got rid of these issues to give it's excellent sensor justice? The answer is a definitive yes, the Xperia Z2 offers fine amount of details with toned back software sharpening and snappier performance, I also didn't experience lens soft spots or distortions.
There's one interesting thing Sony introduced last year: while the large 1/2.3" sensor offers 20MPs, it's new automatic mode, Superior Auto only shoots in 8MP at 16:9 aspect ratio, and even in manual mode HDR or scenes can only be activated at 8MP (either at 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio). Why have a 20MP sensor then if 8 is where you get the most options, good question, but at least the 20 comes handy when zooming, otherwise 8 is good enough for print quality images and processing is faster at that resolution. Speaking of speed, Sony also uses two image signal processors (ISP), so camera speed definitely improved over it's predecessors.
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This is the viewfinder you see when opening an app, and by default the 3840x2160 resolution Superior Auto runs which will choose the preferred camera mode (incl. HDR or night mode), adding some saturation and sharpening after downsampling. Tap to focus, flash settings, timer, burst, and smile shutter are available here. The camera records 1080p videos in this mode.
Moving on to Manual mode, you may choose the maximum 20MPs here (5248x3936) and set up flash, ISO, WB, focus metering, timer and stabilizer, or shoot at 8MP and able to choose HDR, Soft skin, Soft snap, Landscape, Night portrait, High sensitivity, Anti-motion blur, Blacklight HDR, Hand-held twilight, Gourmet, Pet, Beach, Snow, Party, Sports, Document or Fireworks scene modes. You may choose 1080p at 60FPS or 720p at 120FPS in Manual Mode.
The other modes are 4k video recording at 3840x2160, play around slow motion in Timeshift video, blur defocused areas in Background defocus, add 3D objects to the picture like dinosaurs in AR effect, add artistic filters in Creative effect, shoot a 6-second stylish video for Vine, choose best photo out of a burst in Timeshift mode or shoot a 2D Panorama by sweeping the camera. A couple of mode examples:
Image quality in good lights is stellar, details are fine even at 20MPs but especially at 8 which I recommend to use in Manual mode to be able to use HDR and scenes. Focus, white balance and exposure are quite consistent, although under certain conditions like facing directly into lights these can be a little troubled. Overall, images are natural on the slightly cooler side, and Manual mode is less saturated than Superior Auto. Dynamic range is good, and HDR helps in high contrast situations. There are no HDR inconsistencies, though the effect could be stronger. Tap to focus is fast as well as tap-to-snap speeds, and if you need to capture really fast movement you can go for high ISO or choose Sports mode. Overall, you'll shoot many quality images in daylight.
Normal vs. HDR:
Macro and closeups are very good too, there's no need for special modes just move close to the target and either let the camera shoot or tap to focus - the latter does not always hold for the shot, sometimes the camera refocuses before shooting even though you set it up perfectly. Depth of field is good in these situations, and if you prefer softer backgrounds, you can always choose Background defocus.
Low light and night shooting, as always, is where things get tough for small mobile sensors, the Z2 is no exception. The strengths of the new Xperia is dealing with higher ISO with tolerable loss of details and having a strong LED flash to light up small dark areas, so you'll be able to shoot at least usable, but with some tweaks some pretty decent low light shots. What's lacking is of course optical image stabilization, which makes avoiding handshake blur harder, especially at 1/7s exposure, which is the slowest shutter speed I saw. White balance suffers more inconsistencies during the night, there's a slight yellowish tinting, but nothing too bad. High ISO (manually available to choose up to ISO3200, the phone can go up to ISO6400 automatically) can brighten up some really dark places, Night scene and Night portrait scene modes - which requires a longer hold to operate - can also bring out dark details at a heavy loss of details, but you really need to be really steady here. HDR works in low light too. Overall, the Z2 does a decent job in low light.
ISO100 vs. ISO 3200
ISO100 vs. ISO800 + HDR
Video quality is top notch with clean, artifact-free and highly detailed, especially at 4k, and audio is nice and crisp. Steady shot can compensate some of the handshake with surprisingly good results, though OIS would be even better. Tap-to-focus and shooting a photo while recording are both available, as well as using the LED flash as torch light. While moving or with movement in the background sometimes causes refocusing, more visibly during the night - night videos are cool BTW just not as fully detailed as day ones, with some yellowish tinting. 4k is so good that you can choose to print single frames, I uploaded some at full 8MP res., while 60FPS at 1080p gives smoother motion, also uploaded 2 samples. Just note that a single minute of 4k video will take up about 400MB at 56MBit/s + 158kb/s audio, and camera shuts down after a few minutes due to overheating. No such issues at any 1080p mode, and you can shoot in HDR at that resolution.
(any artifact you see on these videos are due to YouTube recompressing)
60FPS video sample #1 (download)
60FPS video sample #2 (download)
4k frame captures via VLC Media Player:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2915/14095570711_b063d9da46_o.png
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2931/14095565711_dd1e27d982_o.png
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7396/13912143277_ac4e88ddbf_o.png
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7405/14095685952_b126b09fb5_o.png
About that overheating issue... one of the negative surprises I had with the Z2 was the phone overheating and shutting down when I really stressed the camera under the sunlight. Many face the 4k overheating problem which is understandable, it needs exceptional resources and other rivals limit this capture to 5 minutes, but under the warm Spring sun I had camera crashes when taking photos too. We're not yet know how wide-spread this issue is, but I suspect that with ISP and SoC working hard and the sun's heat and 100% screen brightness giving extra heat, things get a bit too hot and the phone chooses safety shutdown. Since the Z2 never got too hot while shutdown, I suspect that Sony set the camera app heat policy a little too conservative, so SW update could get rid of this, or maybe you'll never face this at all.
Overall the Z2's camera is an important step forward for Sony. Faster operation with more details and less post-processing results in higher rate of quality images, and short 4k clips give stellar videos as well let is be 4k, 60FPS or HDR. Low light performance could be improved with white balance and OIS, and some autofocus inconsistencies is video need to be addressed too, but I didn't find any of this too distracting. I would prefer to use all 20MPs for all manual settings and scenes, and video zooming should use the megapixels too and not just zoom into the 1080p or 4k image. But let's be clear: the Z2 produces some of the finest images and videos on mobile and the modes and settings give a lot of options to play with. And if Sony isolates and gets rid of the heat problems, which only come out in special situations, the Z2 and it's camera definitely comes recommended for some serious mobile snapping.
I'd like to thank XXLGSM for the test device, hope you enjoyed my short bit, please look up all my photos here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/

Thankyou, excellent find :good:
The translated version of the page makes interesting reading , this bodes well for the Xperia Z2 especially as this is a test version and there is still room for improvement from Sony engineers to make even more improvements
Here's the translated version of the page:-
http://translate.google.com/transla...8&u=http://www.ringhk.com/report2.php?id=8273

Those night pictures look pretty bad :crying: my nexus with HDR+ on takes better night photos

Chad_Petree said:
Those night pictures look pretty bad :crying: my nexus with HDR+ on takes better night photos
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They look pretty good to me - if your shots are this good, you can post them for comparison so we can look at the 100% crops.

Some indoors from the same Hong Kong article
http://www.ringhk.com/report2.php?id=8273

Xperia Z1 vs. Z2 at night from Eprice.com.hk
Source, full size: http://www.eprice.com.hk/mobile/talk/4551/170008/1/rv/sony-xperia-z2-review/
First shot Z1 manual mode, 2nd shot Z2 manual mode, 3rd shot Z2 Superior Auto Mode. The Z1 shot is slightly darker but more detailed with heavy sharpening artifacts (white dots). The Z2 while a bit softer on detail has no over-processing artifacts, though white balance is a bit on the red side. WB is fair on the 3rd shot, Z2 superior auto. Click on images for full resolution.

The 3rd shot is just amazing!

Some MWC shots from two Asian sites
Sources, full size: http://www.sogi.com.tw/mobile/articles/6225507-攝錄、功能再進化！索尼Xperia+Z2實測【MWC+2014】
http://www.ringhk.com/news2.php?id=8238

z1 vs z2 pics
other pics here :
z1 vs z2
http://www.ringhk.com/news2.php?id=8285

testnumero said:
other pics here :
z1 vs z2
http://www.ringhk.com/news2.php?id=8285
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
z1 pics are a lot sharper

more z2, and z1 vs z2 pics :
http://www.eprice.com.hk/mobile/talk/4551/170031/1/rv/sony-xperia-z2-review/

progosu said:
z1 pics are a lot sharper
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe the z2 has a stronger algorithm to smooth out/blur the noise, although noise shouldn't be a problem at low iso as seen in the first image.
still the photos are on the newer f200 fimware which has great noise performance at higher isos so that shouldn't be the issue.
just looked at the night shots and the z2 has a 1/13s exp at iso1250 vs 1/16s exp at iso1000, wonder if this slight difference would make such a big difference in 2 photos. Regardless it seems the white balance is better on the z2 at night vs the z1.
For the 3rd night photo, it seems superior auto has opted for the night scene, since it is 0.77s and iso200, the noise level is quite low vs what I am used to on my z1 using night scene.

progosu said:
z1 pics are a lot sharper
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes the Z1 does have sharper pictures, but mostly due to the severe overprocessing leaving a lot of artifacts. In the end, neither system can have true 20 million pixels of detail, so it's a bit pointless to pack so many MPs in.

95% same pic z2 in macro semms more details

Hmm..
So What Sony did with the Bionz is, pull the image from sensor, send to Bionz for image processing with sharpening and noise reduction.
Seems quite evident that Sony over sharpen with the algorithm and hence the black crisscross artifact -|-|-| with the Z1 camera which mistaken as noise. The Z2 has less sharpening effect hence the blur at pixel peeping level. I might be wrong though.

We'll see good results in first few firmwares then after that it will be a disaster and a disappointment just like the Z1.
Both phones have the same camera module and I hope they fix this issue.

I just don't think 20MP is justified at such a sensor size, either the lens or the sensor pixel size is causing noise and softness that needs to be processed and it's just more work for the ISP. A 12MP sensor would be more adequate. Anyways, here's a Z1 vs. Z2 comparison, both a bit yellowish in WB, any my edit of what a Lumia would produce. I notice that some of the previous indoors shots are a bit tight on color depth too.

chesterr said:
We'll see good results in first few firmwares then after that it will be a disaster and a disappointment just like the Z1.
Both phones have the same camera module and I hope they fix this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bone I would like u to conclude what do u think of z2 camera when compared to other ANDROID cameras
Sent from my ST18i using xda app-developers app

faraaz3 said:
Bone I would like u to conclude what do u think of z2 camera when compared to other ANDROID cameras
Sent from my ST18i using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No conclusion until extensive reviews, or if and when I can test it myself.
Whoever gets the Z2 early, should kindly test speed and reliability of autofocus, white balance and exposure (like how many shots come out good out of 10 snaps). Posting superior auto, full 20MP manual and HDR samples should also give us a clue about overall picture quality, level of post-processing, lens issues if there's any, SW preference of shutter speed and ISO, picture-to-picture performance and so on. Right now we must wait patiently, and share whatever we find online.

A few more from Eprice
Source, full resolution: http://www.eprice.com.hk/mobile/talk/4551/170031/

GSMArena does a blind survey of cameras

http://www.gsmarena.com/iphone_6s_galaxy_s6_xperia_z5-review-1329p2.php
Xperia Z5 took top honors, and the ranking look more like the Dxomark ranking

I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?

@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.

schecter7 said:
@joe_dude, SA has received some interesting changes - it's too shy to use high ISO now lol
Check out these two, not my best efforts as I had to shoot with both hands
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22325128049/in/album-72157659529471088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889222884/in/album-72157659529471088/
Now that it's too shy to go for high ISO, let's take a took at these three. One of my goals was to capture that logo (please excuse the mess) that no other phone could do it for me so far
Z3+ detected this as low-light, shot at ISO 4000 & got its job done without breaking any sweat.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21889541194/in/album-72157659529471088/
So I pulled out Z5, SA detected some motion & selected 'night scene' & gave me this!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22324812888/in/datetaken/
By then SA figured out things have stabilized, a tripod sign showed up right below the 'night scene' icon & I got this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22499088172/in/datetaken/
Finally, I realized that the sucker was set to 20mp (I'd never use that for indoor/evening/night or even day shots). Anyways, Z5's key strength is color & you can't rush in SA mode. Stabilize your hands & wait for that tripod to show up & then shoot if you want to use that night scene selected by SA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! After looking at your pics, I also went back to Tim's 20 MP vs. 8 MP comparison pics.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/22126137922/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/21515893794/in/photostream/
If you look at the EXIF info, they both used the same shutter speed, but the 8 MP used a higher ISO. Better exposure and less noise, so 8 MP mode is better for low light, as Tim has shown. Tim also waited for the tripod symbol for his 20 MP night shots.
So my question is this: Does the tripod symbol show up for non-night scenes? Like in moderate to bright light? It seems to me the Z5 has two AF modes - fast vs. slow AF. Fast AF is super fast, but only good for capturing a specific subject (and tends to blur the background). Slow AF does full scene analysis and takes longer. It would explain why people are getting such wildly varying results with the Z5.
Anyone wanna test and see? Please?

I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.

schecter7 said:
I don't remember seeing tripod symbol in any non-night mode. Tim's 20mp was done in tripod night mode? The ISO seems a bit high though (ET also seems smaller). It looks more like a regular night mode. But I could be wrong. Tripod mode basically drops ISO, increases ET even more (the max I have seen so far is 1/1 s) compared to 'regular' night scene as you could see from my last two EXIFs . I'd have to do a 20mp vs 8mp comparison soon. Z5's SA is quite different than the SA we had on previous Xperias!
Edit: I forgot about the brightness slider in new SA mode. It lets you control the ISO - well, indirectly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?

joe_dude said:
Sorry, you're right. There's is only one pic in Tim's collection that activated tripod mode (in 8 MP SA) I believe, and it had an exposure time of 0.8 sec. From the various pics I've seen, it seems the limit for SA is 1/8 sec without the tripod icon. I hope Tim's reading this. Something new to play with! :victory:
Still not sure why some pics from various reviews have AF problems in moderate to good lighting. Are there any extra icons that pop up after a short time when it gets a solid "lock" on a scene?
Edit: Wait a minute... is there a landscape icon that pops up in SA during scenery shots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol

schecter7 said:
Only extra icon beside the tripod (mutually exclusive) is a runner icon. It basically means SA is 'busy' trying to find out a suitable scene mode. So if it's not there, I think we got the 'lock' lol
SA Landscape mode has some icon (same as the one you'd get from manual -> scene -> landscape) , but it rarely shows up lol Actually I haven't seen any icon at all
while taking most of the daylight shots. I think SA doesn't want to tell you much proly because it feels confident in those cases lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:

joe_dude said:
Hmmm... those are the same icons as on my Z Ultra. The runner means it detects movement, I believe. It takes a few seconds to go into night mode, and tripod icon needs something to brace against to appear. So how quickly/easily does the night mode and tripod icon appear?
:silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe

schecter7 said:
Man, ZU & Camera. It's my favorite Xperia though. It was also the phone that forced me explore manual mode
I think there is another runner icon (without two white bars) that appears during the mode selection. I think it means 'busy' ? On Z2, I mostly get 'only tripod' SA mode. The one I was talking about is NS + tripod (or low-light + tripod). I don't think you'll get it right after opening the camera (proly because of the mandatory initial movement). It's not that hard to get it right before the next shot though - around 1 second or less. I do apply mild downward force from both index fingers & upward one from left thumb. My hands are not super steady, so I think anyone can do it after few trials. But remember the longer ET, so I think tripod may backfire at times hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I think the ZU was the best phone of all time (when it came out). On light use, I've gotten 4 to 5 days out of it on a single charge. And Kitkat 4.4 and Lollipop 5.1.1 have been rock solid. If there were a Z5 Ultra (or Z6 Ultra), I'd get it in a heartbeat.
Anyway, I should be able to do some testing with the Z5 and a G4 shortly (yea!), but I don't have a lot of free time, so I'm gonna try to grab a bunch of shots and analyze them later. Oh well, RL comes first.

Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161

chesterr said:
Hope to see the update which will bring proper software to the table, Specially low light performances. Cause sensor is really good yet the software, specially SA doesn't do a great job.
P.S: I really hope one of these great Dev come up with an idea to use the camera beyond Sony could expect it so they can hire him or just use that software.
Like this one. Never tested but thought of giving it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/crossdevice-dev/sony-themes-apps/mod-xperia-camera-unlocked-t3071161
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, a fully unlocked camera would be really cool. Well, for us geeks anyway. I think Sony's simplified manual modes are still not simple enough for the average consumer. But that's a problem with the average consumer, not the phone. xD
As for low light performance, let's see how it does in comparisons using the default 8 MP SA. Even if the tests don't adjust for its 24mm lens, I think it'll do a lot better than in 23 MP mode.

If things go well I might have my Z5 next week.
And do some proper testing with Z5 and Z2 which I know really well since I have it for over 1,5 years.
I should do a proper comparison. All the questions will be answered.

joe_dude said:
I honestly dunno how the Z5 managed to win. The whole contest was stacked against it. I didn't have to look at the pics to know that it wasn't gonna do well using the 23 MP mode in low light (gah!).
But the worst part was the flower pic on the balcony. The Z5's FOV was so large, it detected it as a low light outdoor scene, rather than a photo of flowers. How can they run a "blind" test when the pics are so different that one camera will detect it as a different scene?!?
Based on the GSMArena and Android Authority (not-so-)blind tests, I still don't have a clear understanding when SA will act flaky. I don't believe it's a lack of OIS because if it were, the 6S would have suffer from the same problem. Bad focusing algorithm under certain conditions? Not correctly detecting landscape scenes with close objects?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.

TheEndHK said:
Please read the whole review clearly. The flower test was going to test the flash system not other things, S6 LED flash is very well designed confirmed by all other reviews. In reality, 99% of smartphone users are using Auto so they just let all shot with Auto which is a reasonable testing method though I understand it is unbelievable to some xda members here.
There's no review against Sony I've seen on net regarding the question of fov because we are testing the whole camera module now, not solely the sensor raw performance, or else we'll also need to take out the OIS on S6 bcoz it's unfair to Z5. The fov on Z5 is wider but it also got many more pixel counts while S6 got a smaller fov with 16MP and the same happened on 6S as well, it is a fair race.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.

EQ2000 said:
There is lots of incompentence in reviews regarding the camera. He is right regarding FOV as that affects how the camera measures what is in focus. Due to the wider FOV of the Z5 it put focus on the background which took up more sensor space than the flowers. This resulted in upping ISO to combat dark environment. Also becouse the Z5 has wider FOV the photos has to be taken a bit closer else they need to zoom in the Z5 photo (disadvantage for Z5) and something several tests do and it is not professional.
Look at this, this is photos from a comparision at Phonearena which provided unmodified full resolution photos of all cameras. I have downscaled the 23MP Z5 image to 16MP to be same as G4 and S6 and also changed the aspect ratio. You can clearly se the concept of how wider FOV provides unfair advantage to competition but with same aspect and same MP size you can see the Z5 races well against the G4 and S6 unlike what the OP of this thread showed which was the zoomed in Z5 vs the competitions non zoomed in view. That's why most reviews and comparisions with the Z1+ range phones gives the competition an unfair advantage which doesn't translate to real world detail as you downscale the image for given media you use or just as is.
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.

TheEndHK said:
I gonna repeat it again. The S6 flash system is excellent so it is actually the S6 flashed the object beautifully(6S also performed correctly just not as nice as S6). On the other hand, though I don't deny the wider fov might be a bit affected to the detecting of environment but from the flash lighting it spreading out, it is clearly the flash system on Z5 doesn't come close to S6.
Though the Z5 got wider fov but it also got more pixels plus bigger sensor size to fullfill the wider scene so you can't just said that they are all not fair to Sony. If you put it in this way, it would be unfair to Samsung or Apple turned out this time.
Reviewers(and customers) are only interested to test the whole camera module because it is a final product. They are not engineers to test individual parts and theirs raw performance.
http://www.sammobile.com/2015/11/02/samsung-in-talks-with-sony-for-new-galaxy-s7-camera-sensor/
It is funny how Samsung is now trying to deal with Sony to put the Z5 sensor(IMX300) on the upcoming S7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
In any case, the Z5's flash is rated better by DXOMark than the S6. So it was obvious that the GSMArena's flowers flash test had some kind of problem. I mean just look at the pic - the Z5's pic was mostly of the night sky, while the S6 and 6S were mainly on the flowers. Because they didn't consider the FOV and framed the shot incorrectly, the Z5 detected it as a night scenery pic with flash fill, not a flash pic of flowers. There are examples from other reviews that show the Z5's flash working well and as expected.
Reviewers are expected to understand and be knowledgeable about the product they are reviewing. Would you ever buy a car magazine where the reviewers don't know what kind of engine is in the car, or how much gas it uses? Reviews that give false, misleading and/or incomplete information are bad for everyone.
---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------
EQ2000 said:
First photo is Z5 (1/64 ISO 80), second S6 (1/33 ISO 80) and third G4 (1/30 ISO 100). I wonder though why the Z5 didn't choose shutter speed of around 1/30 to get a more lit up capture.. Guess they need to iron that out with updates or some kind of anti shaking mechanism kicked in making shutter faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:

joe_dude said:
The ISO part, I can answer, since I've tested it. SA uses face detection (or moving objects) to prevent motion blur. Whenever the "people" icon appears on screen, the ISO and/or shutter speed goes up. I dunno if Sony really needs to do that, but I guess sometimes a usable shot is better than a blurred shot...? SA constantly fiddles with the exposure time, depending on the objects/movements it detects. So far, I haven't gotten pics with bad lighting though. Maybe it was fixed in the latest firmware?
:silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.

joe_dude said:
Yeah, I just read that too. It'll be interesting to see if Sony gives Samsung the new sensor, and what Samsung can do with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to buy Z5c today(not sure, but most probably, if I could find a cheaper one for sales) and let me see how well the camera. Actually, I think it is worthless to discuss the camera before any big updates.

EQ2000 said:
Ah that explains it and no I dont believe they need to as it seems way to aggressive. Also this would mean the photo was taken in SA 23MP mode. In such conditions manual would be far better.
Have you gotten around testing the FV-5 app? I get 'Night Mode' equivalent with it at 21MP which makes for great low light 'high detail' photos. Works great and it handles the shutter speed and ISO in a good balanced way. This sample is 21MP, 0,77, ISO 250 at night on the Z1 with FV-5 "Long" mode holding it fairly stable with my hands and elbows on the table.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I'm still playing with SA. As much as I want to fiddle with the camera, I'm gonna have to cut the experimenting short to get back to other RL things. Sigh. But thanks for the suggestion... I'll keep in mind!
FYI, I did more analysis on the IFA photo you had posted. Believe it or not, I think the Z5 was correct with the exposure. Look closely at the pics - in the other two pics, the model was over-exposed. In the Z5 pic, she had a nicely balanced colour and brightness. The other phones did not do face detection, so measured the exposure based on the entire frame, and not on the model. Since the pic was primarily of the model, the Z5 took the picture as it had been intended.
This is part of the problem - we assume if the Z5's pic looks different, it is "incorrect". I'm starting to understand SA tries to do a lot, although sometimes it will guess incorrectly. But I think Sony needs to tweak SA to work better/more consistently.

So the S7 camera performs better than the Z5/Z5P ? I can't stop laughing...

Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?

It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk

Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.

Well money talks. S7 just cant match Z1+ line. Take a look at original S7 full resolution photos. Photo IQ is awfull on the S7. Over-sharpening that creates awfull halos and contrast, to much texture detail, texture extraction that gives a gritty look and to much noise reduction that makes for a blurry image with lost detail and plastic look. S7 has borderline the bad CRT chromatic aberration look and reminds me of old cheap digital cameras.
I'll quote one of my other posts wher one can see that even in an unfair comparision that favors the S7 my Z1 just performs much better. Much better and if making things more even by choosing 2048x1536 for my Z1 photos and same or similar for S7 my Z1 just walks all over the S7. Z5 does no worse unless in SA or the NR goes wonky.
When I look at S7 photos in good and low light it just reminds me of the bad CRT "chromatic aberration" look. Great artistic value but the persons S7 destroys IQ beyond reparation. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/
I mean even the Z1 blows it out and Z5 even more. Look at this comparision which favors the S7 as the images are shown at 100% size which means my Z1 is showing a far bigger image aswell as in worse lighting conditions with far less photons in the ambient to capture (see shutter speed difference) yet it performs better. Would I scale it down to same size as the S7 it would be a brutal comparision leaving the S7 in the dust. One can choose 2048 pixel width to see this in the links.
Stock original photos, default camera apps.
S7 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25743187832/sizes/o/
Z1 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25516883060/sizes/o/
S7 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
Z1 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25019022984/sizes/o/
Might take some time some day with the Z5c and capture photos in same locations once the sun is about same (wild weather over here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And here are more S7 samples.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25208922064/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25404249180/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25021532094/sizes/o/
And here is low light.
Will check files once released here and compare CRC to see if they changed algorithms. As for the S7 I agree, it does moderately good but far worse than Sonys Xperia Z1+ line. The biggest issue on the S7 besides tending to go overboard with sharpening and noise reduction which smoothes out to much and gives a bad fake plastic look (often easily visible around fine-grain detail like branches and leaves) is that it also when post-processing brightens up the image by tweaking curves. Most software does this but should be catiously used to extract detail from low contrast areas. Samsung goes overboard often giving it the 'fake ISO' look where black turns grey. Xperia Z1+ phones give quite a bit better low light photos same ISO for ISO and shutter speed while not even having to resort to major curve tweaking just minor or barely any and it does it selectively in a often excellent way. I assume the BIONZ is really a power beast for such dedicated tasks but sensors in Sonys phones are just better even though older and they are coupled with great optics.
It's just now that Samsung is starting use similar tech that Sony already employed in their mobiles years ago. I think Iphone 6s also got a bit of it but it relies mostly on multi-frame photo composition to create higher ISO like the Nexus 6p HDR+ does. Xperia Z1+ also does this but only when doing ISO 6400 (atleast the Z1) else not. Problem is you need to keep scene static else you get ghosting and bluriness. Haven't checked it fully out for the Z5c though but it should do better.
I guess you could say the S6 gives more detail and less blur but it also has way to much curve tweaking as the S7 but just much worse for same low light situations. S6 just turns to a mess at ISO 1000+ and low light while S7 does better. Both S6 and S7 also automatically (atleast in auto mode) if stable does multi-frame capture in low light to create improved noise reduction. Why some S6/S7 photos at say ISO 1000 looks bad and others much cleaner. Scene has to be static though and mobile firm. Same concept you can find in ProCapture camera app and their noise reduction mode.
Photo example of the S7 post-processing and curves.
Without HDR enabled.
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With HDR enabled.
Sony avoids this in most cases and dont go overboard like that keeping blacks deep and rich aswell as colors punchy and representation of captured scene is far better.
And a Z1 sample from manual mode 8MP, 1/8 ISO 3200. Little and smart use of brightening via the changing curves despite high ISO of 3200 keeping the blacks quite well, global contrast and colors punchy despite heavy tungsten lighting!
Manual mode, 1/8 ISO 1600 of same scene two days apart around same time.
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Click to collapse

The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?

Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?[/QUOTE]
Let me answer :
Are you able to drive faster in a Bentley than in a Renault even if you are a bad driver ?
Yes !!!
Same with photos quality (not photo skills)
I agree that the human factor is there but can not excuse all Sony conservative attitude plus Sony do not want to let 3rd party improve their lack of dev.
But still happy with my Z5 result... It is a phone and we do not have to expect the same quality as a Reflex

NJ72 said:
The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.

Xeon said:
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.

NJ72 said:
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well to be honest, SONY only brags about their camera performance in their devices.... This time in September they mentioned nothing but the 4K screen and the IMX300. No major change to the device design, software is close to stock android and the IP68 has been there for ages.
http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-z5/
See ? They are so proud of their camera that this is the only marketing card in their hands for now. As for lack of expertise, I really doubt but I can nothing but believe that they thought they nailed it when in fact it's still horrible in low light conditions.

The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi

FYLin21 said:
The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
One thing I noticed is that even Whatsapp camera looks awful. I understand that the pic is compressed and the post processing is non existent but on my Xperia Z the difference wasn't noticeable that much.

gm007 said:
Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but I tend to disagree. I dont think OEM release need google assistance. In fact SONY is very conservative when it comes to camera software. I bet they know how to unlock raw mode and compatibility yet they don't want to.
It's obvious that the post processing has been inconsistent across the Xperia line. A bit of trial and error if you want my opinion....
What you say about bad software is correct however unjustified. I can't accept it from an industry leader such as SONY.
OK the camera is almost perfect in manual mode if you want to go hardcore and adjust every possible value and mode for a snapshot but I don't want to spend 2 minutes for that :
Look at the difference between iPhone 6S and Z5 camera.... this lack of details is what makes me go nuts.

Xeon said:
This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has been zoomed a bit using "clear image zoom" which just oversharpens things. It could be fine if they just use something that rounds off the edges for up sampling, but you see a lot of jagged circular blobs throughout the edges. I had taken a few pictures of this bird standing there but the camera kept overexposing the scene. Then I brought the exposure down and tried taking a photo - the bird a still standing there the moment I pressed the shutter.
The only thing to get around no burst mode is using 4K video. You can capture 8MP stills while you film but sometimes it causes the video to stutter and it takes a long time to save them. The stills also look worse than the video itself - the contrast is lower with washed out colours. It's better to grab frames after filming but you'l need another app to do this and I'm not sure which one as I do it on my computer using Media Player Classic. You can also crop to 1080p which is better than using the digital zoom in the app - unfortunately the bitrate of 4K video is a bit low so you can see some artifacts when cropped to 1080p ...
Is the shutter lag due to software or hardware? it's hard to say. Low resolution photos from Facebook messenger can be taken instantaneously, but all the third party apps I've tried exhibit shutter lag - I think even worse than the stock camera app... and don't forget only 8MP works with third party apps.
If the images were downscaled to 8MP or something, they would be good compared to some other cameras but that defeats the purpose of having 20/23MP.
Imagine seeing the loch ness monster and you took a photo but the shutter lag means your photo doesn't show it because it dove into the water

I will give you a small example why sony is bad software wise,
In lollipop we had fingerprint scanner test in the diagnostic menu and the test was not working.
So instead to fix it in marshmallow they removed the test completely lol.

Xeon said:
Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?
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Click to collapse
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.

danw_oz said:
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ironically their sales and marketing strategy is flawed to death and it's chaotic but they wanna do marketing they do it the wrong way.
Seriously they should start recruiting...

hawker_gb said:
It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say

Barthlon said:
post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.

EQ2000 said:
They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
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Click to collapse

Xeon said:
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kinda hard to make out what you are reffering to but "disaster"? Z5 series applies to aggressive area based NR in low contrast areas, as for the rest the photo is quite good and natural looking. Certainly better than most S7 photos you can find of similar ISO, shutter speed and scenery type. Atleast the NR can be countered partially with texture detail and clarity filters to bring out contrast in smudged areas. S7 you cant do nothing to repair photos as they are beyond reparation.
Click on images to view them in Flickr default display size. Atrocious and beyond reparation. The Z5 IQ despite smudgy NR in low contrast areas is head and shoulders above the S7 IQ. Z5 looks to the DSLR side while S7 looks to the cheap old digital camera side.
S7. Atrocious, the borderline bad CRT chromatic aberration look. Like relief filter applied shifting pixels due to horrible post-processing and subpar sensor.
Z5. The area based NR problem is clearly visible yet it looks much more natural and better despite being taken in much worse lighting conditions as evident by shutter speed and postition of sun and shadows.
As for the highlights you made that is pretty much what I already noted though the left side is from lens problem, that unit has decentered lenses thus blurred sides, right and/or left. You can see that in S7 to depeding on unit. Such a unit should be replaced. And all cameras have to do some detail extraction in low contrast areas (shadowed/non directly lit areas) and thus wont be as detailed as lit areas.
Take a look at S7 photo with shadowed areas, see? Noisy, smudgy with blotches and horrible even though ISO is low. Atleast the Z5 smoothes it out mostly OK. (left and right side)
One more time! You see? (right side trees and bushes)
You still cant see it!? Well some more then!
To the right!
To the left!
To the left!
And all around! :laugh:

Using Manual Mode (Camera) for much (much!) better photography.

I think we can all agree that the camera's auto mode can be a little weak on low light, fast moving objects, and focus.
However, I have gotten ridiculously amazing results using manual settings. To the point where I wish (if anyone from oneplus is seeing this, please please implement it) I could set up various quick-access custom manual mode presets. It would be a very good feature (does anyone know an app that has that btw?).
With a little tweaking, you can find a super sweet spot for a picture on certain conditions.
The following are examples on a very low light scenario with no image movement and minimal hand movement (exact same environment conditions on all):
- Normal mode
- Normal mode with HDR
- Normal mode with HQ
- Manual mode with ISO at 400, and shutter speed at 4s. Then touch and raise finger on screen to place exposure point, and then touch same spot and drag to place focus point.
I was shocked to see that this camera could actually capture something like that last shot in my home's corridor at 2am, when the normal modes barely gave me anything visible.
That setting is working very well for me on multiple very low light situations. Really wish we had some quick-access presets.
There are also settings which can capture images with fast moving targets (with low shutter speeds and a little higher ISOs), and usually I don't get blurry shots with focus on infinite or when selecting focus point.
Things to avoid are super high ISO's like 6400 which for some reason the normal mode is very fond of using even though on manual we can only get up to 3200.

Not sure why you would prefer blurry 4s shot over noisy high ISO shot? Yes auto mode isn't as good as the one compared to LG or Samsung flagships but even manual mode has its limitations. 1/8s is pretty much the limit of what you can shoot with OIS and that is only if you have super steady hands. Most phones with OIS can give quite good results at 1/16s and ISO 100 onwards depending on the lighting. Anything else like 1s or longer exposure and you'll need a tripod . By the way max ISO is only 3200 so you can't go higher.
Oneplus 3T noise reduction algorithm is quite bad and even at 100 ISO which should be super clean in daylight is probably one of the worst in the class.

gedas5 said:
Not sure why you would prefer blurry 4s shot over noisy high ISO shot? Yes auto mode isn't as good as the one compared to LG or Samsung flagships but even manual mode has its limitations. 1/8s is pretty much the limit of what you can shoot with OIS and that is only if you have super steady hands. Most phones with OIS can give quite good results at 1/16s and ISO 100 onwards depending on the lighting. Anything else like 1s or longer exposure and you'll need a tripod . By the way max ISO is only 3200 so you can't go higher.
Oneplus 3T noise reduction algorithm is quite bad and even at 100 ISO which should be super clean in daylight is probably one of the worst in the class.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe RAW is a solution here?

I have been trying Open Camera for the last couple of days. Seems to take much better low light photos. Not as good as my 6p but at least the photos dont look over processed and washed out.