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Lots of people are unhappy with the camera on the Z. I'm into photography and I thought I'd have a play with it to see what I could find out. I thought I'd post this as it may help people get more out of the camera and understand why they are getting bad results. I was initially very unhappy with low light shots, especially compared with my old Xperia Arc. I am now getting vastly better results.
1. "Superior Auto Mode" SUCKS. Really, really sucks.
Why?
First, it applies some sort of hyper-aggressive noise reduction/sharpening to most images. This means that even if you get a good capture, this mode then does its best to ruin it for you by artificially stuffing up details and actually adding noise (via over-aggressive processing).
Second, it does really stupid things with ISO. You may notice that on manual settings, ISO only goes up to 1600 (which is still way too high for this sensor). However, in auto, the camera will go up to at least ISO 2500 (confirmed by checking exif data). This is extremely bad for image quality and introduces huge amounts of colour noise which simply cannot be overcome by post processing. In addition, in auto mode the camera is very "high ISO happy", so it will bump up the ISO very quickly even in moderately good conditions.
What's more, while you can't use the (dubious) image stabilisation at manual ISO settings, you can you HDR. So you can get good night or dusk shots by using HDR and (say) ISO 400 in normal mode, which I deal with below.
Overall, I would avoid this mode unless you are in bright conditions or just need to get a basic shot without caring about quality.
2. HDR mode is real, but the images it takes are not taken simultaneously.
I'm sure I read Sony claiming that the sensor was in some way three layered and therefore that it could take HDR shots instantly. The reality is that while HDR mode works (weakly), it actually takes three separate shots over the space of maybe half a second.
The problem with this is that if things are moving in your image, they will either blur or have ghosts of themselves in the photo.
I verified this by taking an HDR shot of traffic at an intersection. I was able to see very dark and very light 'ghost' images of moving cars, even though the rest of the image was sharp and clear.
From this I am guessing that Sony has implemented an edge-matching algorithm to process the three exposures into one. This can cope with some camera shake, but cannot cope with actual fast moving objects. This theory is supported by the fact that the image size drops by one megapixel for HDR, i.e., the camera is giving itself a "border" to allow for shake.
It is also apparent that the level of HDR processing is very weak compared to what is possible with a proper camera and proper software. The exposure range and the amount of weight given to the high and low range exposures is very weak (confirmed by the level of saturation of the "ghost" cars in my test image, which were fairly faint).
Others have reported that the video quality suffers with HDR on. This is consistent with the HDR having to take triple the exposures then process them on the fly.
3. Image stabilisation is a gimmick
In manual mode, you can turn on image stabilisation. However, when you do this, you can't set a manual ISO level and can't use HDR. This strongly suggests that all that "image stabilisation" is really doing is messing with your ISO settings (as per "superior auto mode") to increase shutter speed in difficult conditions by ramping up ISO. This, of course, destroys quality.
4. You can use normal mode to control the ISO and get much better results, including at night
If you choose "normal" shooting mode, and then go to settings and scroll down, you will find an option to set the ISO of the camera manually.
Playing with this, I have been able to get much, much better results from the camera than are achievable either in "superior auto" mode or in any mode where ISO is set to "auto".
Specifically, I would say that the camera produces fair to excellent results (for a phone camera) at any ISO below 400, and acceptable results at 800 in some conditions. However, 1600 produces very noisy images and should be avoided if you are after image quality (as should 800, to be safe). That is consistent with the size of the camera and sensor. Even fairly good consumer DSLRs struggle at or above 1600, so it is not surprising that a tiny phone camera struggles at or above 800.
Using the camera at ISO 400 I have been able to take shots in very dark conditions which look great and show relatively little noise.
The lens is f/2.4 at its fastest, which is not ultra fast, but fast enough to capture a decent amount of light at ISO 400 or 800. You are better off sticking to these ISO levels and trying to physically stabilise your camera (i.e., balance it on something solid) than killing you image quality with higher ISO settings.
A comparison suggests that "normal" mode doesn't apply the stupid levels of sharpening and noise reduction (so called) that superior auto mode does. Shots seem to retain most of the natural sharpness and detail that the camera is clearly capable of producing.
5. The flash is bad but better than most
Direct flash generally sucks, and mobile phone flashes generally suck. Combine them for a lot of suckiness.
However, Sony has done a solid job with this flash, given the baseline difficulties with any direct flash. It doesn't seem to blast its subject and it seems to be at a low enough level to let ambient light fill in the background. I was able to get acceptable results in normal mode at ISO 400.
6. Metering
The metering on the camera is quite aggressive in its centre-weighted variation. If you are finding that photos of a light or dark object are causing the rest of the scene to blow out or go too dark, try the full averaged metering mode (which is slightly dark, but does a decent job).
7. My suggested settings
A. Daytime: Normal mode; ISO 100; HDR off (to avoid ghosts on moving objects); flash off.
B. Nightime: Normal mode; ISO 400; HDR off unless taking pics of buildings and holding camera v steady; metering full scene; flash off.
C. I want to produce horrible photos then complain: Superior Auto Mode.
I hope this helps someone! Using setting A above this camera produces some stunning pictures in good light. Using setting B it produces very good night pictures for a camera phone, particularly if you shoot at the highest resolution then resize later.
One other thing - what I would like to see Sony do to improve the camera so that users get the most out of it...
1. Dramatically reduce the default image processing in auto mode
2. Add a smart ISO setting, where the user can control the maximum ISO that the camera will select on "auto ISO". E.g. allow the user to set ISO800 as a cap, but have the camera use a lower setting if suitable for the conditions.
3. Add advanced options to allow the user to contol noise reduction and sharpening.
4. (In fantasy land) add a full manual mode.
What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?
JPWOA said:
What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?
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Click to collapse
No, that's focus mode (which I don't have strong views about - I prefer single point for more control, personally). I.e., the way in which the camera picks the subject which will be in focus.
I'm talking about exposure, i.e., how the camera works out how bright or dark the scene is. In "normal" mode, if you go to settings, then scroll down, you will see a metering option. The choices are centre, average or spot.
I'm suggesting that at night "average" will be most useful as "centre" or "spot" take a limited part of the image and base exposure on that. At night a limited part of the image is likely to be extremely dark or light, which will make the exposure go nuts.
During the day "centre" works ok for specific subjects, and average is good for evenly lit scenes.
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
caitsith01 said:
...
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Click to collapse
Agreed on pretty much most of what you say, in addition other camera apps that allow you to save 100% jpg quality or save as png also help.
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
Apart from that some good information shared.
---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------
juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no, because Sony are still processing the image to create the jpg files, and not saving at 100%. Think of RAW, I always shoot in RAW because then I am in control of the processing on the image WB,Sharpness,Brightness... not my camera.
Burst mode is great, because the Sony algorithms don't have time to apply all the settings to all the photos before they are written, so just pretty much write the file (like jpg in raw jpg). So a combo of all these things will significantly help further. To better this even further there are other camera apps that allow you to save at 100% jpg or even png for RAW like capture to a lesser extent
danw_oz said:
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen that thread - in my opinion the burst pics look similar to those I have been able to achieve in normal mode, i.e., nice clean edges, not a lot of detail loss, not a lot of noise added by over-sharpening.
I imagine the reason is that the camera isn't fast enough to ruin... er... process pictures when shooting in burst mode. Burst mode has some resolution limitations, though, plus who wants 10 copies of every photo?
To be honest many of the daytime shots I've taken look pretty close to what you would expect from an enthusiast compact, like one of the Leica-Panasonic or Canon G-series cameras. Not quite there, but close (and obviously lacking optical zoom).
Well i don't know but i took some samples for a quick compare. Though even the BURST Mode pics are a bit smaller in size, they give you still the most detail and Pictures overall look much better. That's at least my impression.
1- Burst Mode
2- Snap Camera (PlayStore)
3- Supperior Auto
4- Normal Mode ISO 100
5- HDR Kamera (PlayStore)
Decide for yourself.
caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am talk serious gear, not cheap 50mm lenses. And I didn't ask you if you could find cheap lenses, I asked you how many lenses you have faster than f2.4.
For solid low light performance, I would not be using a smart phone, nor would most others I am sure. Most people are using phones for snap shots nothing serious, or to capture that once off shot because you didn't have a better camera on hand.
Not any phones that I am aware of below f2.0
caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again
Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
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totally agree, most of all on superior auto...
normal mode, same photo,auto is 400 iso...manual iso 200 (just a little darker) superior auto 800/1600 iso
superior auto can be good only on daylight (difference between 40 and 100 is really small)
sacredsoul said:
Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!
fartlec said:
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that you can resolve those nameplates better in the burst mode picture, even though I think it might be slightly lower resolution (?). The "normal" mode shot looks softer, but looks to me like it still has less aggressive noise reduction/sharpening than the "superior auto" shot. I would like to know what ISO these were at - unfortunately the EXIF data has been stripped out.
Another area where the three pictures are noticeably different is the curtains in the lowest row of windows. The burst mode output is noticeably sharper. Normal mode is a bit more smudged and has the characteristic "painted" look of over-aggressive noise reduction, and superior auto mode is even worse in this regard (as well as the colour being completely different).
I obviously don't know exactly what's happening inside the camera, my original post is just what I've tried to work out from playing around with different settings.
I can say for sure that there was a drastic difference in noise for me taking the same dark night scene using superior auto and then manually dialling down the ISO. Using superior auto the noise in darker areas was so bad that the image was unusable, even for social media etc, whereas at ISO 400 it was acceptable and could have come from a reasonable quality compact camera. It may be that the ISO level is the primary problem, and that the aggressive denoise/sharpen algorithms make the problem worse (because running these on a super-noisy picture will produce messy results). So it might be running the same level of denoise etc in both modes, but because superior auto produces such messy base images the filters then make the pictures look shocking.
It really needs a "raw" mode, either producing real RAW images or producing "straight out of camera" JPEGS with minimal filtering.
caitsith01 said:
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah thank you. So for indoor pictures, if I wanted to see the preview, I don't have a choice but to increase ISO? That sucks really
I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP
sillypilot said:
I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exemples ?
I also use the 4.2 camera. For me it's faster and the photos it makes are on par with the ones made using burst.
I've patched the 4.2 camera to support all of the resolutions Z/ZL support (9, 13, etc).
I'm uploading it now.
Update: here's the link
A few shots from yesterday.
At the car
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20Burstmode.JPG
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20iAuto.jpg
At my parkingspace
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20iAuto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Burst.JPG
Normal, 100ISO, HDR On
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Normal%20100ISO%20HDR%20On.jpg
Window shot
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Auto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Burst.JPG
So what do you think? There are some differences between the pictures indeed.
My S4 takes really terrible pictures indoors. It takes decent pictures outdoors but man is it terrible indoors. It does compensate for the light which is great, but it plaster the entire screen with a white mesh film that makes it look grainy and just plain terrible.
Is this a feature of the S4? Or a defect? Has anyone been able to fiddle with the settings to find the most optimal picture for indoors or in general?
Sepharite said:
My S4 takes really terrible pictures indoors. It takes decent pictures outdoors but man is it terrible indoors. It does compensate for the light which is great, but it plaster the entire screen with a white mesh film that makes it look grainy and just plain terrible.
Is this a feature of the S4? Or a defect? Has anyone been able to fiddle with the settings to find the most optimal picture for indoors or in general?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Galaxy S4's F2.2 lens is not the fastest in the business (both the HTC One and Nokia Lumia 920/925) feature F2.0 lenses) but, in combination with relatively slow shutter speeds, it's fast enough to allow for shooting at low ISO settings even when taking pictures indoors.
In low light the S4 will use shutter speeds as slow as 1/15 sec which, given an equivalent focal length of 31mm, can lead to some camera shake. In low light it's therefore advisable to, whenever possible, take two or three shots of a scene to increase the chances of capturing at least one sharp image. You can also activate digital image stabilization which simply increases the minimum shutter speed to 1/30 sec, but this is very slow for moving subjects. In those situations your best option is to manually select higher ISO settings, but given that neither ISO or shutter speed are displayed on the live view screen, this can feel a little like flying in the dark. In this respect the Samsung is no different to its main competitors though.
Once the camera does climb up the ISO ladder, image grain and noise reduction show their ugly faces pretty quickly. That said, while at a pixel level the blurring and softening effects of noise reduction become visible pretty quickly, chroma noise is very well under control and the S4 images are usable at smaller viewing sizes up to the maximum ISO setting. The S4's high pixel count also means that at equalized viewing sizes image noise is less prominent than on some lower resolution competitors. Overall the Galaxy S4's low light performance is decent in Auto mode but when photographing people or other moving subjects it can be useful to interfere manually for best results.
Good response. Very informative.
Would you say the Nexus 5 has a better camera?
Sepharite said:
Good response. Very informative.
Would you say the Nexus 5 has a better camera?
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Click to collapse
no
Had a little bit of free-time so decided to do a simple test. What differences does the different camera modes provide in Low-Light?
Here is the album for the pictures: https://goo.gl/photos/iFc9Keoh9um1beks5
All shots were handheld, 8MP 16:9, landscape orientation. Unfortunately, I don't really have a DSLR sample for comparison but you can take my word that there wasn't much light (among the shots, SA and Handheld Twilight are closest to how dark the scene actually was but in reality, it was still a bit darker). On to the analysis:
Superior Auto - Night-Scene detected, NO tripod icon Even though it selected Night-Scene, it still seemed to select a rather high-ISO in this case, making it quite useless. How do you get the Tripod icon to appear when handheld? Do you have any tips for that or how long I have to wait for it to appear?
Manual Mode (ISO Auto, Metering Multi, Single Auto-Focus) - based on many observations, ISO in Manual mode generally is 1/2 of the ISO that is selected for Superior Auto. Most of the time I shoot stuff in this setting. Curiously, did anybody notice that the "Image Stabilizer" option disappeared?
Night Portrait - based on observations, seems to select a balance of the lowest ISO it could get with the slowest shutter-speed it can have to have a balanced exposure of the scene WITHOUT motion blur. This in contrast to the Night Scene mode.
Night Scene - based on observations, seems to prioritize getting the lowest ISO it can and slowest shutter-speed to get the best exposure BUT the main difference with Night Portrait is it does not care about motion blur! And yes, the shutter speed it selected was almost 1 sec but I have to be honest, it really took me quite a few tries to get that clear a shot without motion blur. You might also notice some wonky focus on the right-side.
Handheld Twilight - not really sure what this does but to me seems to perform like HDR? Takes a couple of pics then stitches them together to preserve detail? If you compare to the Superior Auto shot, it seems to have more detail in comparison (e.g. the frame with etched words).
Is there a best scene for shooting? I think it would depend on what you want to prioritize. For me, I would probably leave it in Manual / Night Portrait for general shooting and put it in Night-Scene mode for landscape shots. Lack of OIS is sad but not a deal-breaker for me, just have to be more patient and practice having steady hands to get that good shot.
Hope this have helped you and please feel free to add any information as needed!
Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.
Timaustin2000 said:
Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.
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Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish I could tell you, lol. Tuck your elbows in against your ribs - that helps. If you can, lean your elbows on a arm rest or lean against a wall. You just need to be as steady as possible but it's tricky to do.
One tip; half pressing the camera key re-sets Superior Auto when released. If you do this a few times, it means that the mode is more active in looking for changes in exposure and behaviour and may help it come up quicker.
Once it does come up, half press and hold it and it should lock the mode so that you can find your focal point and take the shot.
Hope this helps.
I would add from myself the best results especially in detail are available throght Maual Mode 8mpx.
The autofocus is fast, low manual ISO and the usage of white balance gives really detailed pics even in low light.
It's also good to use tap-to-focus and consciously use light metering.
---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
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Click to collapse
Tripod appears actually only when the phone is set on a completely stable surface/stand.
Otherwise the phone detects any movement. Which is logical.
Thanks both for the helpful tips! Can't wait to try out and do my best to practice my 'tripod mode' Btw, what metering do you leave your phone at?
I've found to get tripod to appear reliably, shoot either while sitting or leaning/braced on something. I found it was the body swaying, and not the hands, that was causing most of the movement for me. If the tripod icon does not at first appear, take an initial shot in SA (without tripod icon), and it should then appear for the next shot.
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
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Wow didn't know that before. Might be interesting to have a play around with those settings when I get the chance!
EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
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Interesting,.. but I've never once managed to get it to produce usable results.
i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp
Barthlon said:
i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp
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I am totally for Manual 8mpx.
Just because in real low light it's more crisp than 23mpx.
Other than that Manual 23mpx is great.
I can bring up the tripod quite consistently after the first shot (it keeps showing all those running, walking icons first time due to almost unavoidable initial motions).. Thanks to some helpful tips here, I'll have to try to get it up before the first shot.
One off-topic tip that could be pretty convenient. I'm pretty sure most of the Xperia shooters already know this. I leave the camera in my fav. manual mode (basically favorite ISO/res. & everything else set to auto or you could just pick a scene mode). I launch the camera using the awesome shutter button to get to auto mode directly. I tap the icon to launch the camera only when I need to get directly to my favorite manual 'preset'.
If we lock the iso as 200 in manual mode, I guess it is like a tripod mode, because the camera will adjust the shutter speed to match the iso , and it takes good pics in most circumstances.
Would people care to post tips about what are best settings to use in:
low light photos
fast subjects
etc,
Don't have this phone, but I can share some common knowledge.
There's a term often called "exposure triangle". Proper exposure is achieved by combining three variables - ISO, aperture, shutter speed. High ISO, wide aperture (low f-number) and low shutter speed give you more light. Depending on what you're shooting, you'd want to sacrifice one or the other. High ISO gives you more light at the expense of image quality. Wide aperture gives you more light at the expense of lower depth of field (which is not necessarily bad - e.g. may be intentionally desired). Low shutter speed gives you more light at the expense of not being able to give you a sharp image of something that's moving. Generally you can vary one to compensate for the other two. With most phones, the aperture is fixed, so you're left with only shutter speed and ISO.
For low light, you'd want to drop the shutter speed to something like 1/10 or 1/5 - if the subject is still and your hands are steady, you can have a sharp photo this way. The lower you drop the shutter speed, the lower ISO you will need to ensure proper exposure - and the lower the ISO, the cleaner the image given the exposure is proper - but don't try to keep the ISO low if it would result in an underexposed shot. Experiment with what is the lowest speed at which you can manage a sharp shot.
For fast subjects, it depends - sometimes 1/100 is enough, sometimes 1/500 is not enough - very much depends on what you're shooting (primarily how fast it is moving). Again, try it yourself.
killchain said:
Don't have this phone, but I can share some common knowledge.
There's a term often called "exposure triangle". Proper exposure is achieved by combining three variables - ISO, aperture, shutter speed. High ISO, wide aperture (low f-number) and low shutter speed give you more light. Depending on what you're shooting, you'd want to sacrifice one or the other. High ISO gives you more light at the expense of image quality. Wide aperture gives you more light at the expense of lower depth of field (which is not necessarily bad - e.g. may be intentionally desired). Low shutter speed gives you more light at the expense of not being able to give you a sharp image of something that's moving. Generally you can vary one to compensate for the other two. With most phones, the aperture is fixed, so you're left with only shutter speed and ISO.
For low light, you'd want to drop the shutter speed to something like 1/10 or 1/5 - if the subject is still and your hands are steady, you can have a sharp photo this way. The lower you drop the shutter speed, the lower ISO you will need to ensure proper exposure - and the lower the ISO, the cleaner the image given the exposure is proper - but don't try to keep the ISO low if it would result in an underexposed shot. Experiment with what is the lowest speed at which you can manage a sharp shot.
For fast subjects, it depends - sometimes 1/100 is enough, sometimes 1/500 is not enough - very much depends on what you're shooting (primarily how fast it is moving). Again, try it yourself.
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Exactly as mentioned above pretty much, I will add a little more.
Normal cameras you can change the aperture which in turn will also affect the required shutter speed for the correct exposure in the given shot. Your phone does not have this, only a fixed aperture, how you phone regulates this is through shutter speed and adjusting your ISO. Manual with all cameras is recommend for best results, as your camera can make bad decisions for these exposures.
Perfect example I can give you is the other night I was trying to photograph christmas lights, the camera was trying to illuminate the entire scene over exposing all the lights, I had to compensate this by underexposing by one stop what the camera was trying to expose.
If you have ever photographed scenes with lots of black and or lots of white, with black your phone overexposes and you black becomes greyish the rest of the shot is bright white. With white your phone underexposes, the white has lots of details but the background is very dark of completely black. it each of these situations if you don't take control you will not get the best out of the scene.
Thank you contributors. I found out that by changing the exposure my screen darkens quite a lot but when I take the photo comes out a lot lighter. What is that about? Is it not wysiwig?
mihaid said:
Thank you contributors. I found out that by changing the exposure my screen darkens quite a lot but when I take the photo comes out a lot lighter. What is that about? Is it not wysiwig?
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The camera is trying to show you a real time image, so in low light it has to keep the shutter faster to keep up with you moving the camera, if they didn't do this and it was showing you real time in low light you would have to wait the exposure time, this would get really annoying as you have to wait for each frame to refresh
So in summary they have a minimum shutter they show in the screen preview (not sure what this is) maybe 1/15 sec so it can keep up with you panning/moving the camera
The Sony display tries to improve the look of photos, you have noticed when you view a photo that it changes while you are looking at it.
If you want a less post-processing you can use "Landscape" mode. You will get visible color noise in low light situations but also more detail in dark areas. A bit like what G4/V10 does and depeding on scene it can be passable. In good lighting it brings out the details better than other modes. It does though like to up the ISO but it can be countered with the EV.
Does people even have the phone to make comments, the only settings in manual mode is change iso value that's it, there is no shutter speed at least not in Sony stock camera app
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
You can change most of the settings mentioned above using the Fv-5 app, try it
babarmaqbool said:
good
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Stop with the good spam in each thread please.
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
Vcaddy said:
You can change most of the settings mentioned above using the Fv-5 app, try it
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It is not free (lite version is horrible) and can only shoot long exposure in 2.1 MP.
I bet it doesn't even shoot a real long exposure, I think it just shoots a video into a picture.
BTW, normal photos can only be taken in 8mp max.
This phone needs a real manual mode like the G4 because the phone really does not deal with low light well due to lack of control in the app. FV-5 is useless really as it's only 8mp and doesn't really do any better than stock on this phone or the G4
Jonathan-H said:
This phone needs a real manual mode like the G4 because the phone really does not deal with low light well due to lack of control in the app. FV-5 is useless really as it's only 8mp and doesn't really do any better than stock on this phone or the G4
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Agreed.
Long exposure in vf-5 app is only 2.1mp btw.
At the club, at the bar, or just in your mom's basement, nighttime is when you come out to play. Rate this thread to express how the Huawei P40 Pro's camera performs when no or low light is present. A higher rating indicates that the camera sensor "sees" lots of light in dim conditions, and that the resulting photos have minimal noise. A higher rating also indicates that when the flash fires, the resulting photo is evenly-lit without any bright spots.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
Any experience regarding blur when capturing moving objects (pets, kids, people) indoor?
For me p40 pro doing night photos like a beast.
For low light shots, using normal "photo" mode seems better than using night mode. Example in attachments. First shot is night mode, second is photo mode.
I think night mode is better when you have a tripod. Although I havent tried that.
EDIT: After further testing, I think it really depends on the situation. In some situations, night mode will produce better shots. In others, it will produce worse shots than normal photo mode. So, just in case, always take at least two photos. One in photo mode, one in night mode.
Just a small low light comparison with Huawei Mate 20 Pro. Night mode used on both devices. As you can see on the photo taken with the Mate 20 Pro, the text "co engineered with Leica" isn't as clear as on the pic taken with P40 Pro. Huawei keeps improving their night mode, it's actually very impressive. ?
UXELLR said:
Any experience regarding blur when capturing moving objects (pets, kids, people) indoor?
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I do. A lot of pictures failed due do this. I expected a bit more from this phone on this point.
regarding low light, i had a few reviewers taking pictures in pitch darkness, yet the image comes out well. Just a point and shoot. is that in an update or its just fake? cause i have tried it, does not work
UXELLR said:
Any experience regarding blur when capturing moving objects (pets, kids, people) indoor?
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Michael69300 said:
I do. A lot of pictures failed due do this. I expected a bit more from this phone on this point.
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In that case, you need to expect a bit more from the fundamental laws of physics and optics.
Three approaches to low-light photos with a fixed aperture:
1) High ISO and short exposure - grainy pictures. The higher the ISO, the uglier the photo. Same with digital zoom, a real pestilence of modern times and death sentence of just any photo.
2) Low ISO and long exposure - in-motion unsharpness.
3) Multiple pictures taken with different ISO and exposure settings, "stacking".
That's it, eat or die. :/
Same with all digital cameras. There's no workaround to defy the laws of physics.
There's only one approach to taking low-light photos with a short exposure, thus being able to avoid in-motion unsharpness: High ISO, thus grainy pictures.
Taking high quality photos under bad lighting conditions always requires long exposures. And long exposures naturally cannot catch quick motions.
Okay, there's algorithms. But the worse the picture, the more the algorithms need to "guess". And guessing means "not knowing". Thus it's a kind of lottery if your low-light pictures showing moving objects turn out acceptable or bad.
If they're acceptable, be happy.
If they're bad, blame it on physics.
You are right about physics. Still there are difference between cameras/phones regarding blur. Pixel phones generally seem to capture movement better than, say galaxy phones. There has to be an acceptable weighting to faster shutter speeds, even if you end up with some grain. Its easier to fix grain afterwards than a light-trail-resembling face.
UXELLR said:
You are right about physics. Still there are difference between cameras/phones regarding blur. Pixel phones generally seem to capture movement better than, say galaxy phones. There has to be an acceptable weighting to faster shutter speeds, even if you end up with some grain. Its easier to fix grain afterwards than a light-trail-resembling face.
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You've got four options:
1) Use the Night mode, which will take several pictures with different ISOs and exposures, will then stack the pictures taken to achieve a kind of HDR picture for low-light purposes. Drawback: Not suitable for motion.
2) Use the regular Photo mode, which will try to get a sound balance of ISO and exposure, then use proprietary algorithms for making the best out of the mess taken.
3) Try the Pro mode, which allows you to set ISO, exposure and exposure value compensation ("EV", for brighening/darkening the photo a bit further) with less algorithms wreaking havoc on the picture. That way, you can experiment with the effects of different parameters like ISO and exposure time.
4) Use the Pro mode, but save the picture as a RAW file. It will look horrible without all the manipulations of the software algorithms. - Then grab a good PC tool for "developing" and postprocessing the RAW image. That way, you might be able to achieve better results because you bring in the "human factor", yourself, taking care of the things you prefer, not the software.
If you're heavily into catching quick movements, you need to force your P40 Pro into using short exposure times, then play with the other parameters to achieve a sound balance.
Two great PC tools for picture postprocessing:
1) "Luminar 4" by Skylum - this is your choice if you're new to image processing, don't wish to spend months with learning. That software gives you almost instant success with creating pleasant pictures.
2) "Affinity Photo" by Serif - that's your choice if you are an old-stager of image processing, and/or willing to spend weeks or months with the real steep learning curve of that software. It's the "swiss army knife" of everything out there. Utmost capable, can do just everything. But as said: Takes ages to master.
Both tools are massively supported by YouTube videos and tutorials, there's no evil subscription bondage as with Adobe, just give it a try.
I can almost guarantee you won't regret spending a few bucks - as postprocessing is one of the key factors for creating stunning images.
But I need to repeat: If you're new to this matter, go for Luminar, not for Affinity.
Additional note on that: As Huawei doesn't use the standard Bayer sensor matrix, RYYB instead of the "classic" RGGB, you might need to wait for the developers to implement some special algorithms/camera profiles dealing with that to achive real outstanding results. I did not try, yet, maybe it's okay already.
Each phone and camera and camera software has it's benefits and drawbacks. Some work great in a specific situation, less great in others. Plus, there's the "moment momentum": Exactly the same scene might result in a great or an ugly picture, slightest changes of lighting, field of view (affecting exposure metering and more) or temperature (sensor temperature is a common source of picture noise) might cause a mighty difference. It's just a bit unpredictable, no hardware/software combination is able to deal with each and every challenge, for each benefit you usually pay with a drawback.
Just like with everything in live.
Great post, thanks is given?Yes, one can achieve good results, even with less expencive mobile camera phones, if you are willing to invest time and work. The lack of HDR in pro mode, for instance is a big handicap when developing pictures yourself. Blown out highligts, as an example, cant be brought back if the data is not there. But again, great tips and workarounds for getting the best out of what you have!
jericho246 said:
For low light shots, using normal "photo" mode seems better than using night mode. Example in attachments. First shot is night mode, second is photo mode.
I think night mode is better when you have a tripod. Although I havent tried that.
EDIT: After further testing, I think it really depends on the situation. In some situations, night mode will produce better shots. In others, it will produce worse shots than normal photo mode. So, just in case, always take at least two photos. One in photo mode, one in night mode.
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i´m agree with you, the normal photo mode es better than the night mode
Normal night mode without settings vs 100 iso (normal night mode)..
Ricardo_G said:
i´m agree with you, the normal photo mode es better than the night mode
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I don't agree fully.
Both modes work a totally different way - normal mode taking just one picture, night mode taking several pictures and combining ("stacking") them into one.
Thus both modes have their own usage scenarios, with the normal mode suitable for taking pictures in "medium" low light, night mode being able to take picture in almost completely dark environments.
You can also "abuse" the night mode for taking pictures of computer screens without that nagging moiré effect.
So both modes are specialists in their field, allowing you to choose the one best suited for different situations, with both of them having their own benefits and drawbacks.