Related
Sure the camera doesn't have much of a lens, and the zoom is really interpolated; but I really have my doubts that the camera is actually a 3.0MP.
Have there been any in depth tests to prove the camera's resolution???
How big a file should it be with the 3.0M super fine photos?
I take photos at the highest resolution and there is still pixel 'blocking'. I know HTC is new to this, but it is a let down. My old Sony 2.0MP takes better photos.
Clearly u have mistaken abt the relationship between MP and picture quality.
Higher MP does not necessarily mean better images taken.
If u compare a logitech quickcam IM's photo to that of the microsoft 2MP one. u will realise that althought the IM only supports VGA but
picture quality is much better......
The 4 most important factors in photography: Skill, Lens quality, lens quality, lens quality.
And you did realize that when you use the 3 MP mode, there is no zoom available?
A typical 3 MP "Super fine" image will be around 900-1400 KB depending on colors and detail of the object/situation you photograph. A "Fine" photo will land around 450-750 KB.
There is no noticeable difference between "Fine" and "Super fine" modes except in close up, high contrast photos.
I have attached 2 photos for your comparison. Yes, the camera is of poor quality as seen by these 2 images.
http://bayimg.com/DAEKGaABO
http://bayimg.com/DaEkHAABO
Oh, and to double check the resolution, just take a picture, save it to your PC and open it up with any image editing program and see for yourself.
keithwwalker said:
Sure the camera doesn't have much of a lens, and the zoom is really interpolated; but I really have my doubts that the camera is actually a 3.0MP.
Have there been any in depth tests to prove the camera's resolution???
How big a file should it be with the 3.0M super fine photos?
I take photos at the highest resolution and there is still pixel 'blocking'. I know HTC is new to this, but it is a let down. My old Sony 2.0MP takes better photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you really expect super great pictures on the data centric device? Sure SE Phones do a better job of this, but what else can they do?
If you want a high quality camera or anything else techy, always buy a dedicated device for the job. Simple.
Personally speaking I find the camera quality more than acceptable for a PPC/Phone, as a matter of fact I would go as far to say that it is the best in class out of all PPC Phones. Just MHO though.
mackaby007 said:
Personally speaking I find the camera quality more than acceptable for a PPC/Phone, as a matter of fact I would go as far to say that it is the best in class out of all PPC Phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got the same impression about the cam,
at least compared to my old HTC Magician
Camera
The quality of the camera is probably the only reason why I have not let the X7501 fully replace my N95 as a phone!
thetruth1983 said:
The quality of the camera is probably the only reason why I have not let the X7501 fully replace my N95 as a phone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lmao, scnr
mojo2000 said:
lmao, scnr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got an N95 and its camera isn't much better in my opinion, though it copes with moving subjects slightly better and video is VASTLY superior. I prefer B&W shots on the Ameo though. The flash on the Ameo is much brighter too - I still don't understand why HTC don't provide an automated flash function though - very annoying!
Sorry if I gave the impression that I was expecting a first rate camera with the 7501.
I purchased this for the following reasons, ranking in importance:
PDA
Phone
GPS
Media Player
Camera
With that said, there is another component to a good photo beside: Skill, Lens quality.
That is the software that puts all the image together.
My old Sony 2.0MP had a Carl Zeiss lens and the end product was still crap compared to the Canon's of the day. The internal software was the let down. So too the HTC.
keithwwalker said:
Sure the camera doesn't have much of a lens, and the zoom is really interpolated; but I really have my doubts that the camera is actually a 3.0MP.
Have there been any in depth tests to prove the camera's resolution???
How big a file should it be with the 3.0M super fine photos?
I take photos at the highest resolution and there is still pixel 'blocking'. I know HTC is new to this, but it is a let down. My old Sony 2.0MP takes better photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calavaro said:
The 4 most important factors in photography: Skill, Lens quality, lens quality, lens quality.
And you did realize that when you use the 3 MP mode, there is no zoom available?
A typical 3 MP "Super fine" image will be around 900-1400 KB depending on colors and detail of the object/situation you photograph. A "Fine" photo will land around 450-750 KB.
There is no noticeable difference between "Fine" and "Super fine" modes except in close up, high contrast photos.
I have attached 2 photos for your comparison. Yes, the camera is of poor quality as seen by these 2 images.
http://bayimg.com/DAEKGaABO
http://bayimg.com/DaEkHAABO
Oh, and to double check the resolution, just take a picture, save it to your PC and open it up with any image editing program and see for yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, when was the last time you really cleaned?
another big factor of picture quality is the sensor size...
most people down know this but the bigger teh sensor the better the picture quality...
that is why a dslr with a big sensor though it may have a 3 MP pixel size will alwasy be better than a point and shoot thats 8 MP
this gets into photography .. but basicly craming more pixels into a same sized sensor will seldom yield better results ... just maybe allow you to blow up the picture a bit more thats it...
having said that i think the camera on the athena is excellent compared to other phones of the nature
I disagree with the fact that len quality is the most important factor.... Len is very important but tt is when you r using something with a gd sensor.... the image processor and sensor.... b it cmos or ccd will
b the one that makes the most difference when it comes to image quality.......
Calavaro said:
The 4 most important factors in photography: Skill, Lens quality, lens quality, lens quality.
And you did realize that when you use the 3 MP mode, there is no zoom available?
A typical 3 MP "Super fine" image will be around 900-1400 KB depending on colors and detail of the object/situation you photograph. A "Fine" photo will land around 450-750 KB.
There is no noticeable difference between "Fine" and "Super fine" modes except in close up, high contrast photos.
I have attached 2 photos for your comparison. Yes, the camera is of poor quality as seen by these 2 images.
http://bayimg.com/DAEKGaABO
http://bayimg.com/DaEkHAABO
Oh, and to double check the resolution, just take a picture, save it to your PC and open it up with any image editing program and see for yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bLiTz^ said:
I disagree with the fact that len quality is the most important factor.... Len is very important but tt is when you r using something with a gd sensor.... the image processor and sensor.... b it cmos or ccd will
b the one that makes the most difference when it comes to image quality.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sensor is imp ... but like i said its sensor size...
and being how most cell phones are small... you cant fit a big sensor in it... so image quality willbe sub par always...
you made me laugh out loud with that comment....you're right!!
for gods sake calavaro if you dont want to dust, just blow that dust away.......sneeze or something!!
of course you wanted it there for effect!?!?
in keeping w/ the thread though, i have a trion w/ a 2 mp and it is the best i've had in all my pda/phones...how does the advantage compare to that camera? anyone??
dan
[email protected] said:
you made me laugh out loud with that comment....you're right!!
for gods sake calavaro if you dont want to dust, just blow that dust away.......sneeze or something!!
of course you wanted it there for effect!?!?
in keeping w/ the thread though, i have a trion w/ a 2 mp and it is the best i've had in all my pda/phones...how does the advantage compare to that camera? anyone??
dan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't remember if the Trion is the same as the Hermes?! If it is, I had a Hermes and loved the camera...for a PPC, but I rate the Athena camera slightly ahead in every way.
i do find the athena camera superior to every other camera phone i have seen...
i especially like the focus... it definately makes the picture quite al ot sharper
any other camera with a fixed focal length produces far inferior results...
the reason is because it is fixed at infinity ... so it doesnt have to focus necessarily ...
basicly becaused of a fixed focal length at infinity you get a much softer picture...
and it is a common known fact among photographers the infinity focal length produces sub par results ...
for example they dont use the infinity focal length to take landscape pictures... it really depends per lens but they use a dif formula to calculate the best length...
the long and the short a variable focal lens will top a fixed focal length always...
in short if you cant focus ur lens like most pda phones athenas is better...
Haha. I do dust. I live in a 3rd world country with massive traffic in the center of a big-ass city. I even have maids helping out. That's the best that can be done on a day to day basis. So how about, you know, focus on the issue at hand?
No matter how you look at it, a camera on a phone will never be as good as even the simplest point-and-shoot camera. Yes, quality has improved, but it's still way behind.
So what's up with those red lines at the top left corner? about half the pictures I take has this "effect". Seems to happen mostly in high light conditions.
leoni1980 said:
I've got an N95 and its camera isn't much better in my opinion, though it copes with moving subjects slightly better and video is VASTLY superior. I prefer B&W shots on the Ameo though. The flash on the Ameo is much brighter too - I still don't understand why HTC don't provide an automated flash function though - very annoying!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The N95 indeed has a poor quality STILL capture, however the VIDEO capability is amazing.
Calavaro said:
Haha. I do dust. I live in a 3rd world country with massive traffic in the center of a big-ass city. I even have maids helping out. That's the best that can be done on a day to day basis. So how about, you know, focus on the issue at hand?
No matter how you look at it, a camera on a phone will never be as good as even the simplest point-and-shoot camera. Yes, quality has improved, but it's still way behind.
So what's up with those red lines at the top left corner? about half the pictures I take has this "effect". Seems to happen mostly in high light conditions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is becaues of teh sensor size i mentioned before ..
its just not possible unless you want to carry a huge phone... (thickness)
and though the athena is big its really not that thick...
i really don't get it. most of the comments posted praise the Athena camera. Personally i think the camera is pretty good and sharp and the fact it can produce a 3mp photo is excellent.. BUT.. after using it for 2 months.. it is only great for outdoor and scenery shots (or if your subject does not move too much). in a NORMAL (and i say normal as in if you are in doors and the lighting condition is considered very good) indoor situation, if your subject just moves a little.. the whole picture becomes blur.. try this.. take a shot outdoor while u shake ur camera.. (result.. decent picture)... go indoor and move your camera.. (result.. sucks)..
i for one bought the phone to also take pictures of my kid especially when we go out shopping.. but the camera feature simply cannot make it..
question: when indoors.. the camera is like perpetually in night mode (i mean everything is like in slow motion.. jerky..) weird?!?!? even if i am using my old xda ii, it does not do this.. why oh why?
i do understand what most of u guys are saying about a weak sensor.. but i for one is a disappointed customer.. a phone with such a powerful cpu yet the picture and video quality is terrible.. sigh...
Hey guys.
There's a new competitor in town. SE is definitely looking to gain some market share with the Idou scheduled launch Q2 '09. some specs listed are :
Sony Ericsson Idou
GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
HSDPA 900 / 2100
Coming soon. Exp. release 2009, Q3
TFT touchscreen, 16M colors
360 x 640 pixels, 3.5 inches
Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g, DLNA
Symbian OS
12.1 MP, 4256 x 2832 pixels, autofocus, xenon flash, video, video LED flash, secondary VGA videocall camera
- Built-in GPS
- aGPS function
- Camera images geo-tagging, face and smile detection
- Google maps
- FM radio with RDS
- MP3/AAC/MPEG4 player
- Organiser
- Built-in handsfree
- Voice memo/dial
- Java MIDP 2.0
Some links:
Engadget
Phonedog
Some other video
What are your thoughts on this new model.
The SE Idou has a smaller screen, lower resolution, not WinMo, no North American 3G (Telstra model has 850).
The only positive that jumps out is the camera, but that's not enough to overcome the above negatives for me. Sorry, not interested.
I bet the Idou-NOT camera will still be shooting 3gp video in 320*240 resolution
My 3 and a half year old Universal has a bigger, higher resolution screen than the Idou. If that's progress I'm not impressed.
That phone was epic back in the day! Still has some decent specs now!
really cant stand all those nonstandard resolution.
heck, enough's enough already with vga wvga q and square stuff!
crashDebug said:
really cant stand all those nonstandard resolution.
heck, enough's enough already with vga wvga q and square stuff!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well get used to it - it's the same resolution that all the new touchscreen Symbian handsets are coming out with such as the Nokia 5800 and the Samsung OmniaHD.
The reason they've gone for it is that it's a 16:9 aspect ratio.
There's no point trying to compare the Touch HD to the Idou as one of those handsets isn't even available yet.
In fact, going on SE's recent form, I'd be very surprised if they get it into shops this year. And I'd even go so far as to say that someone like Samsung or LG will have released a different 12mp handset before Idou is available.
Also, why on earth does anyone think that 12mp on a phone is going to be a good thing?
Think about how poor the camera on the HD can be, do you really think cramming in an extra 7 million pixels will make things better?
Too low res for me - 800*480 is simply a sweet spot, it's the major thing HTC got right.
I bet the 12mp camera takes shockingly bad pictures too. That's more than almost all aps-c DSLRs out there (and the few that tried 14/15mpixel didn't sell, because they took worse pictures than the 10/11 models).
Idou would be a good phone. If this (or N97) is out now, I would not have bought the HD. Don't get me wrong. I am very satisfied with HD (with all the tweaks and cooked roms). Coming from a S60 N95/82 and after using HD for the last 3 months I have to honestly say somehow WM is still not as good an OS compared to Symbian. Symbian is still more robust, nimble and more efficient.
not impressed with it's spec's compared to some of the 2009 htc devices on the horizen...like the Firestone, etc.
I don't know for sure, but normally cameras with these resolution ain't better than any 5 MP camera. Its not the resolution that limits the capacities, but its the lens.
mib1800 said:
Coming from a S60 N95/82 and after using HD for the last 3 months I have to honestly say somehow WM is still not as good an OS compared to Symbian. Symbian is still more robust, nimble and more efficient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everyone has their own preferences.
Until the Nokia 5800 was released, I'd never used a Symbian phone that I liked. I just don't feel the way the menus are laid out works all that well.
johnpatcher said:
I don't know for sure, but normally cameras with these resolution ain't better than any 5 MP camera. Its not the resolution that limits the capacities, but its the lens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's both.
Yes the lens makes a big difference but so do the number of pixels.
By cramming more pixels onto the same size of sensor, each pixel is smaller and consequently less light hits it.
Because less light hits it, the picture will appear duller unless you increase the amplification of the signal from each pixel. But if you do that, you also increase the amount of noise, which is detrimental to the picture quality.
Even with premium components it's impossible to amplify a signal without having noise appear but there's no way that a phone is going to be fitted with premium components, so the noise will be much worse than it would be on a digital camera of the same quality, not to mention that proper digital cameras would also tend to have a physically larger sensor anyway, so they wouldn't have to crank the amplification up so much.
Even the C905 (which is, according to GSMArena the best 8mp camera-phone on the market from a camera perspective) already has serious issues with noise and, at best, Idou will have a sensor of the same physical size but with more pixels.
However I've already read rumours that the sensor will, in fact, be smaller than the C905's which will make it all even worse.
Step666 said:
It's both.
Yes the lens makes a big difference but so do the number of pixels.
By cramming more pixels onto the same size of sensor, each pixel is smaller and consequently less light hits it.
Because less light hits it, the picture will appear duller unless you increase the amplification of the signal from each pixel. But if you do that, you also increase the amount of noise, which is detrimental to the picture quality.
Even with premium components it's impossible to amplify a signal without having noise appear but there's no way that a phone is going to be fitted with premium components, so the noise will be much worse than it would be on a digital camera of the same quality, not to mention that proper digital cameras would also tend to have a physically larger sensor anyway, so they wouldn't have to crank the amplification up so much.
Even the C905 (which is, according to GSMArena the best 8mp camera-phone on the market from a camera perspective) already has serious issues with noise and, at best, Idou will have a sensor of the same physical size but with more pixels.
However I've already read rumours that the sensor will, in fact, be smaller than the C905's which will make it all even worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with everything you said, and being a photographer I'm very familiar with issues you described.
However, Sony is leading the market in compact digital cameras, and as such, it would not surprise me that these 12 megapixels turn out to produce "decent quality" photos.
Decent for average Joe Snapshooter, of course. Because, although for last 5 or so years I have been listening to "OMG, they're putting EVEN more pixels onto that tiny sensor", somehow the manufacturers are still running the megapixel race, and image quality has had a small but steady quality improvement. First time I heard this sentence was when first big megapixel jump happened: from 1 megapixel to 2.
So, let's just wait and see before bashing the new Sony, at least camera-wise.
I'm not waiting, I hold out zero hope for Idou or any other 12mp handset.
I've seen both 100% crops and A3 printouts from the C905 and as I said before, noise is a huge problem.
I just don't see how adding extra pixels is going to do anything but make matters worse.
Also, since when have Sony been leading the market for compact cameras?
I must admit I'm not as au fait with everything since the pixel numbers went through the roof but last time I checked, Nikon and Canon were sharing the spoils.
Rozenthal said:
Decent for average Joe Snapshooter, of course. Because, although for last 5 or so years I have been listening to "OMG, they're putting EVEN more pixels onto that tiny sensor", somehow the manufacturers are still running the megapixel race, and image quality has had a small but steady quality improvement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There have been tests recently that showed the best compact ever made was the Fuji f30, a 4 year old 6 megapixel model (people pay a ton of money for them on ebay). Even with improvements in tech since, they've not been able to counteract the quality decrease that cramming more megapixels in causes. Fuji themselves tried to reign back the megapixel race, hold at 8 max for quality reasons, but marketing trumps all and they've had to give it up.
I had a 15mpixel Canon pocket camera recently, the quality was awful.
arfster said:
There have been tests recently that showed the best compact ever made was the Fuji f30, a 4 year old 6 megapixel model (people pay a ton of money for them on ebay).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't suppose you have a link?
I tried my fair share of Fuji cameras in the past and was never hugely impressed by them, so I'm a little surprised at that.
Also, for them to try and position themselves as the voice of reason in the megapixel war is rather hypocritical since they were the manufacturer who traditionally always aimed for more, staying on with interpolation long after most other manufacturers had given up on it.
I love my Nexus One, but like everything, as time goes by and new things come along, there are things I wish were different.
If you had 'three wishes' and could change only three things about the N1, what would it be?
Here's my list
1. By far my first wish would be for more application flash memory. Even with App2SD, there is just not enough space for all the apps I want to install. I'd love to see a minimum of 4GB of app memory.
2. Front Camera. Now that real video conferencing apps and reasonably fast 3G is available, this is a big deal.
3. Screen. We all know how terrible the touch screen is. I get real tired of locking and unlocking to 'reset' the digitizer once it's lost it's mind. While we're replacing the screen, going up to a 4" SuperAMOLED at a little higher res wouldn't hurt. Maybe 960x512 ?
Things I wouldn't change
- The dual, noise canceling mics. This works great.
- The titanium alloy case. Light, sturdy, cool.
- AMOLED. I'll never go back to LCD.
- multiple radio bands. Take it anywhere.
- Bare Android. Keep your UI's and overlays.
***Update***
Now that I've been playing with Darktremor's a2sd script on CM6.1.1, I have to revise my list. Google should really release a code update that allows users to (optionally) do just what DarkTremor's a2sd app does. Truly move the apps and Dalvik cache to the SD card. This really does remove the app memory limitation on the Nexus One. In fact I now have 145 apps installed totaling 256MB !
Note that this does require partitioning your SD card and creating an ext(2/3/4) partition and the whole process is not noob friendly, but if you take your time and do a little research first it's WELL WORTH IT!!
This will make you love your Nexus One again.
Now, about my list.
My new wish to replace the app memory item is:
- USB host mode and additional microUSB host port.
How cool would it be to be able to hook up keyboards, mice, external HD's, even monitors? We already know it can be done, but it would have been nice from the factory.
Actually, I wouldn't care about app space too much, since proper old-fashioned Apps2EXT allows installing as much as I can possibly imagine.
I also wouldn't change the screen size. Absolutely no need to go any larger. And that includes resolution - the only visible resolution artifacts are the result of PenTile AMOLED, and not lack of resolution. No need to make the GPU work much harder.
Things I would change:
1) Digitizer (touchscreen), for obvious reasons.
2) CPU - rebase on 7x30, to get the same CPU with twice faster GPU.
3) Better photo camera.
1. More geebees! Seriously, 4-8GB internal memory should be sufficient until Unreal Engine and id games get ported.
2. Dual-core NVIDIA Tegra 2 processor. Need I say more?
3. Hardware keyboard! I've had my N1 for over 6 months now and still can't get used to virtual keyboards. Swype is nice, but it's not multi-lingual.
Bonus round: Screen size bump to 4 inches would be nice. I find that the optimal size. At the very least an upgrade to a Super AMOLED.
In no particular order:
Better digitizer
More memory
Better speakerphone
Better screen - a cross between the retina display and a super amoled would do me, and with much improved touch screen performance.
Better gpu, coming from a galaxy s that is one thing I miss.
Better camera.
Alreet headphone socket which is actually flush. I really don't want to be buying headphones again to find the phone goes mental when I plug them in (apparently some headphones don't fit in the none flush jack and so the phone gets confused as to whether it's headphones or a headset). Found this out the hard way recently.
More internal app memory, though this isn't such a big deal any more.
3 wishes? i would pay for this...
1. new and BIGGER SCREEN. my eyes are hurting after using a hd2 (thats why im still on the hd2..) atleast 4" would be nice.. but i dont want to leave the 4.3"
2. QSD8x72.
3. erm.. hard to say, the two wishes there are everything i really want.. but probably we need a bit a better battery when if we had QSD8x72
best things on this device are obvious:
- like OP said, the second mic for noise canceling is awsome
- AMOLED is cool, even if the screen is too small
- THE ****IN TRACKBALL, GODDAMN I LOVE IT
- the whole design of the device is awsome
EDIT: oooh i forgot.. 3.5 audio jack on the bottom plz.. at the top just sucks. and get the power key to the other side where the jack now is...
I still have trouble with my wifi connection temporarily dropping after I wake the phone, but I am not sure if that is a hardware or software issue.
I wouldn't mind a line-out jack for audio. Even better would be an HDMI out jack for video capability.
The antenna could be redesigned so the signal wouldn't be affected by hand placement. It's not as bad as some but it could be better.
Overall, though, in terms of design and performance the N1 still rocks for being 11 months old. That is normally eons in terms of the product cycle in this market. I'm so glad I bought two for my wife and I.
-More memory
-Better speakers
-Best digitizer
-SD card slot on outside
My list...
4.3" SAMOLED2 display
Tegra 2 Dual-Core CPU/GPU
Front facing camera
HDMI Out
Printing support (wifi/network)
Desktop Chrome browser....will also need a faster CPU.
1. better speaker
2. Better battery life without changing the size
3. Maybe better camera. Like 12Mp so it can record 1080p.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
x986123 said:
My list...
4.3" SAMOLED2 display
Tegra 2 Dual-Core CPU/GPU
Front facing camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Niceee
10chars
Battery life
Better power button. I'm on my second and it too is buggy.
Better external speaker.
Better digitizer is a. Close 4th.
Digitizer. It felt really disappointing to learn that the sensor could only handle two inputs, and crappily at that. I wish it had shipped with one that didn't spaz out whenever the battery was charging.
Camera Button. I'm not a huge photogeek but this would have been a slick feature. Tapping the screen always shakes the camera noticably, and my photos come out blurred. I think a camera button could have limited that.
Front Facing Camera. I think this really would have helped to future-proof the N1; now, if (hopefully when) a video chat protocol is standardized for the Android platform, I'll have to upgrade if I want to be able to utilize it.
I also still have conflict with the capacitive buttons. I like them because they're sleek and sit flush with the screen. However, I dislike them because they don't work when the phone is locked (in case I want to remap the buttons to, say, skip songs).
1. better digitizer (touchscreen)
2. hdmi out
i think the intention of this post was more towards what you would change and not what phone would you rather buy today.. super amoled and tegra are new technologies and weren't available when the nexus was created
what others have been saying:
ffc: i can live without a front facing cam because i can still video call people, the only reason i would ever use video is to show someone something not just so that i can talk face to face
gpu: it's not that bad, it's not the best but it is almost a year old now
camera: decent enough, do you really need 1080p?
battery: that's not really much to do with the phone, all batteries suck
This is tough, I had to cross a few things out:
1) 4" screen without all the current problems
(love the size and weight, but a tiny bit more screen would be nice. and we all know the other problems)
2) Better battery life
(currently have to charge it 2-3 times a day)
3) Better voice recognition
(I'm from Texas but VR hardly understands me. And the more I repeat a phrase, the more it misunderstands the words.)
Cool
I'm impressed, There are actually a lot of good ideas here.
I'm already cobbling them together into my "perfect phone" list.
So far it looks like:
- Vanilla Android 2.2.1+
- Unlocked
- Multiple Radio bands (like the N1)
- Minimum of HSDPA support, HSDPA+ or LTE pref.
- Minimum of 4GB app storage
- MicroSD slot that's accessible without removing battery.
- Front camera
- 5 MP rear camera (I don't care what anyone says, any more than 5MP in a camera with an aperture that small is a bad idea and only done for marketing reasons. It's all about light gathering, not resolution. Think the opposite of DPI as it's used in screens and printers. The lower the camera pixels per inch, the better)
- 720p video at 30fps
- SuperAMOLED screen. LCD is the past, forget it.
- dual core CPU with GFX acceleration
- HDMI output
- FM radio
- Micro USB with host mode option.
Note that these are in addition to all the standard Nexus One features like a titanium allow case, dual microphones, etc.
Megapixel Myth
william tanaya said:
1. better speaker
2. Better battery life without changing the size
3. Maybe better camera. Like 12Mp so it can record 1080p.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding #3, you've fallen into the megapixel myth. Megapixels don't mean much of anything for most consumer devices. Sure, if you are a pro photographer taking pictures for magazines or billboards, then yes. maybe you need a high MP camera. For everyone else, it's nonsense.
For example, you wished for 12MP to handle 1080p video. but the fact is that full HD, 1920x1080 is only 2MP!
On a cell phone with a tiny camera chip, the less MP, the better. Why? Because this means that each pixel element is larger and therefore can capture more light. This results in better saturation, faster ISO ratings, and better low light capability.
Anything over 5MP in a cell phone is a waste and counter-productive.
Personally I also think 8MP is the limit of diminishing returns on consumer digital cameras, and 12MP for DSLRs.
If you follow digital camera news, you'll find that the biggest push is to put larger image sensors in cameras.
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Tachyon_1 said:
Regarding #3, you've fallen into the megapixel myth. Megapixels don't mean much of anything for most consumer devices. Sure, if you are a pro photographer taking pictures for magazines or billboards, then yes. maybe you need a high MP camera. For everyone else, it's nonsense.
For example, you wished for 12MP to handle 1080p video. but the fact is that full HD, 1920x1080 is only 2MP!
On a cell phone with a tiny camera chip, the less MP, the better. Why? Because this means that each pixel element is larger and therefore can capture more light. This results in better saturation, faster ISO ratings, and better low light capability.
Anything over 5MP in a cell phone is a waste and counter-productive.
Personally I also think 8MP is the limit of diminishing returns on consumer digital cameras, and 12MP for DSLRs.
If you follow digital camera news, you'll find that the biggest push is to put larger image sensors in cameras.
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nice to know that, sounds logic..
ty..^^
Having used XZ's camera for some hundred pictures in various conditions, I have to comment on the very smart automatic mode. It does produce excellent results in identifying conditions and exposure and colour rendition are trully very good. However, photograhic quality is just not there. Detail suffers a lot from either noise or too much post processing. In some cases when viewing at 1:1 zoom, it reminds me the results of applying some of photoshop's artistic filters in a subtle yet identifiable way.
Sony must have had a reason to incorporate such heavy post processing. The Exmor RS module was originally designed to handle RGBW coding (white plus the traditional RGB). Apparently somewhere along the way, Sony changed their minds as they could not make it work to their "image quality standards" and reverted back to traditional RGB (1), (2). One can only make assumptions, but perhaps the rather heavy noise processing of the image and compression may have its roots to decisions taken to correct other issues, ie. degraded light performance and consequent noise through higher ISOs.
It would be interesting to see how the sensor performs in other phones. One example is the Oppo Find 5. Unfortunately the results are pretty much the same, ie. plenty of noise which brings down detail. (3), (4) Which can only mean that the root of the problem is either any firmware handling the signal of the actual image sensor or that the design itself is flawed.
It is rumoured that the same sensor will also be used in the new SGS4 (we will know soon enough) and the revised iPhone 5S. So let's wait and see what they can make of it. It would be disappointing to see two highly anticipated phones featuring worse cameras than the models they are replacing.
In photographic terms, the way to get better pictures is larger aperture and image stabilization. Letting more light in is the secret and there are two ways of doing it: larger aperture or longer exposure times. The latter results in shaky pictures which is counteracted to some extent though image stabilization. The former usually requires a longer camera+lens module. (in DSLRs larger aperture also means small DOF but this is not an issue for phone cameras where the sensor is so small). That's why incorporating a F/2.0 or F/2.2 aperture usually means thicker phone or a lump at the back. Sony also makes a F/2.2 module which is 5.5mm thick vs 4.2mm for the F/2.4 which was selected for the XZ, probably to keep its thickness to an impressive 7.9mm. (5) The larger aperture could also an excuse for the thickness of the Nokia Lumia 920 which its F/2.0 aperture lens. (6) However, Lumia 920 does pull it off and the result of a good sensor, the F/2.0 aperture and optical image stabilization is great photographic quality. Another approach is having less pixels, something HTC implemented in the One, which again features a F/2.0 aperture @ 9.3mm thickness. However this also has obvious disadvantages in losing detail and the ability to crop a photograph.
Higher pixel count, 13MP vs 8MP, also means that to get the same exposure with the same speed, aperture and ISO rating you need MORE light. (7) Thus, when 8MP is pretty good resolution for every day photography, increasing the pixel count just for the sake of it is the wrong way to go. I do not need to use my Canon 550D at more than 8MP, even when on holidays, even though it supports 18MP resolution.
What has the future in store for us? Well, Sony has made a large investment in the new assembly line and tools to produce the Exmor RS series and they want to see it through. So, I would expect to see revised editions of the module with significant improvements.
Many thanks for reading.
Sources
(1) engadget.com/2012/09/21/sony-exmor-rs-stacked-phone-camera-sensors-detuned-over-quality/
(2) droiddog.com/android-blog/2012/09/sonys-exmor-rs-sensors-downgraded-due-to-quality-concerns/
(3) gizmochina.com/2012/12/15/oppo-find-5-using-sony-cmos-exmor-rs-sensor-camera-component/
(4) gsmarena.com/oppo_find_5-review-880p8.php
(5) imaging-resource.com/news/2012/08/20/sony-exmor-rs-sensors-to-allow-slimmer-better-camera-phones
(6) nokia.com/global/products/phone/lumia920/specifications/[/url]
(7) wpcentral.com/thoughts-and-impressions-nokia-lumia-920s-pureview-camera
so XZ camera issue is due to a software?
For the Mp count, u mean that a DSLR like nikon D800 is not only useless but pointless DSLR.
Photographer use extra MP to take pics at RAW format then convert them the way the Photographer want.
Only the engineers at Sony know if the issue can be corrected with revised algorithms or indeed the sensor can't give anything more. My view is that if this was possible they would not have resorted to so much post processing in the first place. If anything Sony knows photography photography much more than Apple or Samsung.
Of course I am not suggesting that dSLRs have the same function as a camera phone. My personal view is that as a casual photographer I don't need more than 8MPs. Of course there have been instances were I choose to shoot in RAW but I doubt that in such a situation a 13MP camera sensor will bail me out anyway. A dSLR is another beast. My message was about finding the best balance for a camera phone.
Thank you
8MP on dslr is not the same 8MP on a phone.
The sensor in dslr is way bigger than the one i a phone.
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Hopefully this is not the result of the Sony camera division trying to hold back on their phones. It happened before with Sony Music trying to stop them from releasing a MP3 player, thats why they were stuck with the mini disk atrac bs for a long time and enter very later into the mp3 market. Too often things like this happened in the company where we see the left hand is trying to fight the right hand making the company so far behind the competitors. Makes no sense that their phone camera is still very mediocre where they make some of the best camera out there.
comparing to my Xperia X10i i get the feeling the color is to much yellow in iAutomatic!
https://picasaweb.google.com/114460...&authkey=Gv1sRgCOO5m9yRrqu1Vw&feat=directlink
btw: Your Opinion on this Topic ?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6777/understanding-camera-optics-smartphone-camera-trends
Is there anyway to make taken images stay at the size they are suposed to be? I mean i want to stop the compression of the image like I had on Xperia S and quality was much better (not better than on xperia Z tho )
Alright, so it's known that the sensor used in the N6P is the Sony IMX377. However, does anyone know if this sensor is native 16:9? 12.3mp is already pretty damn low for a "flagship" phone now-a-days, so it would kind of suck to have to go down to 9.6mp to shoot in a 16:9 aspect ratio.
I quickly googled the sensor and there are a couple of datasheets, I am no camera lens technical expert but it looks like 12.3MP is 4:3.
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/IS/sensor2/products/imx377.html
__NBH__ said:
I quickly googled the sensor and there are a couple of datasheets, I am no camera lens technical expert but it looks like 12.3MP is 4:3.
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/IS/sensor2/products/imx377.html
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Damn. I have to say, that's disappointing...
Yeah, it's 9.6mp in 16:9.
I like 4:3 MUCH better for photos, anyway.
Same, 4:3 is better
Me too...
4:3 crop sensors are fsr more common than full frame 16:9 ones. I like the 4:3 shots better anyway
I agree it is very disappointing. I don't like 4:3 photos at all and I'm use to DSLRs with 16:9 photos.
Slash8915 said:
Alright, so it's known that the sensor used in the N6P is the Sony IMX377. However, does anyone know if this sensor is native 16:9? 12.3mp is already pretty damn low for a "flagship" phone now-a-days, so it would kind of suck to have to go down to 9.6mp to shoot in a 16:9 aspect ratio.
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Are you sure you need all that resolution? Even at 9.6 MP that's more information than could be displayed on a 4K television screen.
Keep in mind that although the IMX377 is not as high resolution sensor as some of the 16 MP and 20 MP sensors seen these days, it is a very large 1/2.3 sensor (large for a phone). So it is actually physically the largest sensor that's been put in any flagship, except the Xperia Zx phones and the great Nokia phones (like the 808, 1020, N8 that have sensors which remain years beyond anyone, even though they are no longer new phones).
So the reason the 6P has "only" 12.3 MP is not because it is a "low" or "small" sensor. It's a very large sensor (again, for a phone). But instead of using the extra size for more pixels, which is a waste for almost all purposes, they use the extra size for larger pixels. This means the images should have better color accuracy (lack of reviews of the phone proving this, notwithstanding), because the larger pixels can catch more light. The overall larger sensor also improves low light performance and noise.
Even the Z5, the only other phone with a 1/2.3 sensors, doesn't use it's full 23 MP to create unnecessarily enormous photos with details no one needs. Instead its default setting to to produce 8 MP images. The extra pixels are used to oversample, using many pixels to composite into one effectively larger pixel, for the advantages of color accuracy and lower noise. This is the "Pureview" technique pioneered by Nokia with the 808 and its huge 1/1.2 sensor, that's actually 41 MP, but defaults to "only" 5 MP final images.
So unless you have a very specialized need for more detail than the already massive amoung of detail of 9.6 MP or 12.3 MP (and assuming you even have a screen capable of displaying more than the 8 MP it takes to fll a 4K screen), the benefits of smaller images, with larger pixels, and a larger 1/2.3 sensor far outweigh pointless extra pixels that people get obsessed with but serves no purpose for most people. Remember, the megapixel race in phones and consumer cameras has always been a mistake, that produces a level of detail people don't need and can't see, that produces unnecessarily large file sizes, and that actually creates problems like reduced color accuracy and increased noise. Physical sensor size matters a lot, megapixels, beyond about 5 MP or 8 MP serve no purpose (unless you're creating billboards or printing wall sized photos).
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One side note, if your current phone is the LG G4, as your signature suggests, I would not expect to get better images out of the 6P. The G4 has arguably the best camera in a current smartphone. It already has a pretty large 1/2.6 sensor. Even though it's pretty high resolution at 16 MP, apparently they've done something to really reduce the amount of noise you'd normally expect from a 16 MP sensor. And it has one very large advantage over the 6P, which is OIS (optical image stabilization). I'd really wait for reviews that compare the G4 camera to the 6P, if this is important to you. At best, I'd expect the 6P to be as good as the G4 (and it may not be), but I'd be surprised if it surpassed the G4 for still images. And without OIS, there's no way videos will be as stable on the 6P, whatever other merits it may have.
The Z5 have a pretty stable camera, one of the best in the market right now and it doesnt have OIS. So lets hope google will arrive with a better algorithm