I have been a pen/tablet enthusiastic for many years and have owned (and still own) loads of tablet over the years. I currently own and use 4 window based pen-tablets (2 XP, 1 Vista, and 1 Window 7), 2 iPads, 2 iPod touch, Apple Macbook Pro (2009), Apple Macbook Air 13" (2012), Samsung Galaxy Note 5.3, and then the latest Galaxy Note 10.1. I also used to own loads of Window powered PDAs, palm, casio, etc.
As you can see for the list above, I have been looking for the perfect computing experience, especially the pen/tablet experience. I bought the Note 10.1 because of my Note 5.3. IMHO, the Note 10.1 is a decent pen-tablet, and it had made vast improvement over the Ntoe 5.3 in terms of hardware. However, it is the software where I feel is limiting the Note 10.1 from being a perfect pen-tablet machine.
People have already disregard the window based PC as being a serious tablet and they are rightfully so. The XP, Vista, and Window 7 while can be used to run as a tablet, have never been designed for tablet. So my experience with them have always been frustrating. HOWEVER, it was a pleasant surprise to me when I loaded the release preview of Window 8 few weeks ago onto 3 of my old Window tablets.
I have a Samsung Q1UP (6 year old, XP, w/resistive pen, 2GB ram, 64GB SSD), a HP 2710P (4 years old, w/Wavcom pen, 1GB ram, 80GB HDD), an ACER W500 (2 year old, w/touch pen, 2GB ram, 32GB SDD), and when loaded with the Window 8, all 3 machines even though are old have given me a VERY good pen/tablet experience. All 3 tablets now run much faster and very very smooth. The surprise comes when all these tablets are now running more like an Andriod/IOS instead of a typical window os. You can smoothly scroll, zoom, etc just like an iPad or Galaxy Note. The battery life seems to have improved in all these machines, and the time from sleep to logon screen is about 2-3 seconds. Loading programs used to take forever under the old OS, but now I can load excel, word, one-note, etc from cold in about 2 seconds.
Now to the most important part, the pen use with Window 8. The handwriting recognition is much better and faster than the Note 10.1 (for all 3 devices with the resistive pen, wavcom pen, and touch pen). The S-Note in the Note 10.1 is just a tiny program, but the One-Note is a full blown application with seamless integration with Office and Sky Drive, etc.
With the new tablets coming designed specifically with Window 8 in mind, I think Microsoft has risen the par on tablet competition. As the upcoming Samsung Series 5 hybrid tablet, for example, is coming with a $650 based price, 11 hrs battery life (with the optional keyboard), 750g weight, and can run all window software. Even though I have not seen, touch or used one of these new machines, the fact that Window 8 has turned my 6 years old tablet into a brand new machine is exciting for me.
Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep. I bought it because I can carry it all day and not worry about battery, and I hardly need to run any PC applications these days when I am out. More importantly if I plan to use the PC all day, I probably need to bring the charger with me which will bring the weight up to 1kg or more. Since I carry my camera with me all day, the Note 10.1 is a better choice for me.
However, if you are looking into serious note taking and also need to run pc applications, I think the Window 8 tablets may be a good alternative. We will all know if this is true when the machines are officially announced in late Oct.
PS: I am in absolutely no way affiliated with any of the companies mentioned about, I am just giving my take on using all these devices over the years.
Good post.
What's your take on the new slate 5 vs surface pro?
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Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
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mitchellvii said:
Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
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Just to better understand your argument, are you including Windows 8 RT in your Windows 8 grouping? Because, that's the version that you want to use when comparing apples to apples (e.g., Android/Apple tablets to Windows 8 tablets), not the X86 Intel versions as you did in your post. For instance, the price point argument, as well as the Ford Focus vs. 911 analogy, will not be applicable, because the products are in different categories/segments (I can't imagine someone cross-shopping a Focus and a 911).
My point is that pound for pound, at least with the Samsung units, you will pay signficantly more for the same level of tablet, even the RT. As a matter of fact the W8 RT offering from Samsung will be slightly worse than the SGN10.1 since the screen is larger with roughly the same resolution. If you dont like the SGN10.1 screen youll hate the W8 RT screen.
For me at least, the primary benefit of Windows over Android is Office programs like Access. Word and Excel are emulated on Android just fine. I dont believe W8 RT will even run Access and if it does I believe the screen is too small to use it effectively with forms designed for a larger screen.
Again, what is the benefit to the consumer of using touch with Office? There is none. So you are trading in a big screen that you do need for touch that you dont.
Tablets are not laptop replacements and if you price them like one you are going to have a problem. They need to be priced like an accessory. Right now at least, Android does that better at the SGN10.1 price. Even $500 is close to being too high.
My conclusion is that W8 Tablets will be too much for a tablet and do too little to replace a laptop. Just my opinion. It may sell gangbusters but I dont think so. We'll have to wait and see. Nevertheless, its presence in the marketpalce will make Android products better
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mitchellvii said:
Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
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WOW!! I wished someone had warned me about troll living here and that no comments other than good Note 10.1 comments are allowed in this forum. This will be my last post in the forum, leaving you alone to harass other people.
The observation in my original post is based on actual experience. Yours seemed to be based on pure speculations and imaginations. I truly doubt you have similar experience before making your comments. I welcome you to try them first and proof me wrong, or stop making illogical fallacy.
1. I read many of the owners who bought the Note 10.1 because of the S-Pen. Some owners even suggested potential buyers to look elsewhere if they are purely looking for an Android tablet as there are better alternatives out there. At present, only the Note 10.1 and Window tablets offer pens experience, so I don’t understand why you think it is an apple to orange comparison.
2. When I composed the list of devices I own, I was hoping to give some background on the wide variety of devices/OS I have used, so that I can make my points. But you turned it into a show-off list.
3. You mentioned “…20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen”, then you went to buy the Note 10.1 and other touch devices, interesting!
4. The ACER W500 Win 7 tablet I bought 2 years ago brand new was $550 then (the Note 10.1 is about the same price range). The hardware was mediocre at the time, and it sucked with Win 7. I was amused how Window 8 has turned it into a very respectable tablet, with very fast and accurate hand writing recognition, and good note experience with One-Note, then further suggested today’s hardware could only do better. You turned it into a Ford and Porsche comparison. I bet you had never owned a Porsche before, so it is a mood point arguing with you here.
5. You must be the CFO of Samsung as you knew how much profit they are making on the SGN10.1, and can easily drop the price by another $50. BTW, Samsung also makes the upcoming Window 8 tablet with MSRP of $649 and respectable hardware (S-PEN, 11.6” , 1366 x 768, 2GB Ram, 9 hrs battery life, 750g, and 64GB SSD http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/29/samsung-announces-series-5-slate-series-7-slate/). Based on your insider knowledge, Samsung could also easily drop the price by another $50 for the Window tablet. Then there are other tablets makers that produce cheaper devices.
6. I had never once suggested Window 8 will take over Android or even compete with it, so I think you are making your comments based on illusion.
Best wishes!
Lol, i guess your definition of "troll"is anyone who disagrees with you? You come to the SGN10.1 Forum announcing that our tablet is "just ok" while the W8 tablets will be the Second Coming and you don't expect any pushback?
I made the argument that the W8 tablets will have a difficult time finding their place in a competitive market. Many pundits online agree with me. Too expensive for a tablet, too small for a laptop. You imply that I said you were bragging about all your tablets. I simply said that you were concerned more about performance than price. How did you get from that that i said you were bragging?
As far as knowing the Samsung can cut the price of the SGN10.1 and still make money that is a well established fact. Google is your friend.
Oh well, if you must leave I am sorry. Im sure there is someone in here that will miss you praising the W8 tablets and putting down the SGN10.1.
P.S. Actually I am a BMW man myself. The center console on Porsche is too wide and presses against my shin because I am tall. The Ford/Porsche comparison was an attempt to compare a tool which can do the job at a lower cost vs one that offers good things but perhaps things that cost conscious people dont need.
Touch with Office is a perfect example of this. Why does anyone need touch with Office? Id rather have a 15 inch screen.
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---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------
For those who feel, as the OP does, that I am pulling my concerns about W8 Tablets from my backside, here is a quote from PCWorld Magazine:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent..._8_tablets_have_what_it_takes_to_succeed.html
There are a number of issues that could make Windows 8 tablets dead on arrival, or at least a very tough sell. Two of the biggest will be price, and confusion over differences between Windows on ARM (WOA) tablets, and x86/x64 architecture tablets.
ARM-based devices will probably be better tablets than their x86/x64 counterparts. WOA tablets will most likely be lighter, cooler, have longer battery life, and--most importantly--be cheaper. ARM-based tablets will be more on par with the competing tablets already in the market like the iPad, Motorola Xoom, Samsung Galaxy Tab, and others.
That all sounds great, but WOA tablets also come with significant handicaps that nullify most of what makes a Windows 8 tablet appealing. For example, WOA tablets can’t run traditional Windows software--they require apps written for the Metro UI.
Wes Miller from GetWired.com and Directions on Microsoft poses the question, “For enterprises who will have to rewrite their (non-Web) applications in Metro for WOA anyway, the question comes up, "why wouldn't I rewrite it for iOS instead?", since there is no way to run non-Microsoft Win32 apps on WOA.”
The bigger issue for WOA tablets is that Microsoft has revealed they are intended for “unmanaged environments”. What that translates to is that WOA tablets will not be able to connect to Windows domains and be managed like x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets, and other Windows systems.
Amobi says that there are arguments to be made for and against WOA tablets, and it’s still too early for a final verdict. But, he stresses, “If they cant join domains--game over.”
No worries. We still have x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets to fall back on, right? True, but there are some caveats.
An x86/x64 tablet is just squeezing a notebook or desktop into a touchscreen, flat-panel form factor. That has advantages, but we also know that running Windows takes a fair amount of processing horsepower and memory. While it may be possible to run Windows 8 with less RAM, 4GB is probably the minimum for acceptable performance. That is four times what most ARM tablets use.
When you build a tablet on x86/x64 architecture, and try to beef up the RAM to deliver adequate performance, the tablet starts to face other issues. As previously mentioned, users want tablets that are thin, light, and have endurance to last all day on a single charge. It is unlikely that x86/x64 tablets can truly compete with ARM-based rivals in these areas.
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As I have stated, W8 Tablets will be stuck in the middle. RT too underpowered to run true Windows software and Pro too small to run true Windows software properly.
DOA.
Hopefully these facts have taken some of the emotion out of this argument.
What the heck OP, please respond to my original question!
New slate 5 vs surface pro. Based on your experience, should we (consumers) wait for the SP release before purchasing.
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mitchellvii, you are assuming too much and treating your "opinion" as the gospel truth.
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Just like the OP, I'm not putting down the Note 10.1; I'm actually waiting for the UPS truck to bring a 32GB version today. However, you don't have to blindly defend it when an alternative view is presented. Just embrace the fact that for every device with additional features (e.g., being able to run OneNote and a full OS on a tablet), there's a segment out there. If you are outside of that segment or find some of those features not very useful for your way of using a tablet, it's perfectly fine, as long as you realize the advantages and disadvantages of each device with an open mind.
tenderidol said:
mitchellvii, you are assuming too much and treating your "opinion" as the gospel truth.
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Just like the OP, I'm not putting down the Note 10.1; I'm actually waiting for the UPS truck to bring a 32GB version today. However, you don't have to blindly defend it when an alternative view is presented. Just embrace the fact that for every device with additional features (e.g., being able to run OneNote and a full OS on a tablet), there's a segment out there. If you are outside of that segment or find some of those features not very useful for your way of using a tablet, it's perfectly fine, as long as you realize the advantages and disadvantages of each device with an open mind.
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Click to collapse
The OP said:
"Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep."
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Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
mitchellvii said:
The OP said:
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, "just making up stuff" you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
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Click to collapse
You really must love the Note 10.1 like your significant other. Calling it a "decent machine" is an insult? As I mentioned above, keep an open mind, and you'll be able to see the strengths and the weaknesses of each device.
mitchellvii said:
The OP said:
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
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Yes you are. You posted an article filled with opinions from Mar and think that these are facts. They are not.
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mitchellvii said:
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
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So, stating someone else's opinion is a fact, now? Got it! Let me find that Verge review and link it here as the "fact" about Note 10.1.
Again... I purchased the damn thing and will be using it to its full potential. However, unlike you, I'll keep an open mind and try the Samsung Smart PC offerings (specifically the Series 5). If it performs well, it'll replace the Note 10.1 (or I may keep both, since they serve different functions); if not, I'll continue to use it happily.
tenderidol said:
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Three things are missing from this conversation to make it worthwhile.
1) Everyone uses their tablets differently. A gamer, heavy productivity user, graphic artist, reader, and someone who uses it primarily for consumption all have different needs. And someone's personal weighting of those things determine which product is "best" for them. I could easily see someone needing OneNote (and MS Office in general) jumping on W8 just for that. Same thing for a graphic artist who wants access to desktop versions of tools they typically use. How many of them there are and how well W8 tablets do more pedestrian things will determine their success, not our discussion.
2) We're comparing something that doesn't exist to something that does. Unless you all intend to go out and buy an Acer W500 with 4 hours of battery life and that weighs two pounds this is at best a theoretical conversation until actual W8 tablets are in people's hands and can be evaluated in real-world use. And don't forget the Pro tablets come with all the stuff we love about Windows: 1) driver incompatibilities, 2) control panel, and 3) multiple menus, clicks, and "enters," to launch or access something. The UI formally known as Metro doesn't hide the fact that there's a huge resource intensive hulk of an OS to be tamed running in the background. How many general-use iPad candidates do you think will find that acceptable? And they’re MS’s bogie, not the 20% of the tablet market that’s using Android.
3) Until the complete feature set is known for both RT and Pro tablets and what apps will be available to them initially you can't have a price-value conversation. I highly doubt entry-level consumer targeted RT tablets will do some of things being discussed. Similarly if a loaded Pro tablet is $1K that changes the conversation when comparing it to a $500 Android tablet.
I'll check back in with you guys once the tablets are in people's hands for a while and then we can have a legitimate conversation of the pros and cons of each.
BTW, here's an excerpt of a review of the HP TouchPad when it was first released. Just because a monolithic company launches something its success isn't guaranteed. It’s too early to say whether W8 tablets will be a Zune or an XBox 360 for MS and no one here can do anything but proffer an opinion as to which way it will go.
"You would almost think that webOS had been designed for tablets from the very beginning. It feels more native to tablets than any other software on any other tablet, despite being an almost exact translation of the phone interface (minus almost all of the bezel gestures). Multitasking on anything else feels almost stupid compared to Cards. An open app is a card. You can stack them, sort them, re-arrange them, and when you're done, close them. Juggling a bunch makes you feel like you're getting stuff done. Palm's big tablet adaptation, panes, is a straight riff on the iPad Twitter UI. So in email and other complex apps, you slide layers—inboxes, message lists, actual messages—back and forth to move between them. Notifications, which pop down from the top of the scree, let you flip through the pile, one at a time, without ever opening the app-handy if you get IMs from five different people. They're great ideas."
BarryH_GEG said:
Three things are missing from this conversation to make it worthwhile.
1) Everyone uses their tablets differently. A gamer, heavy productivity user, graphic artist, reader, and someone who uses it primarily for consumption all have different needs. And someone's personal weighting of those things determine which product is "best" for them. I could easily see someone needing OneNote (and MS Office in general) jumping on W8 just for that. Same thing for a graphic artist who wants access to desktop versions of tools they typically use. How many of them there are and how well W8 tablets do more pedestrian things will determine their success, not our discussion.
2) We're comparing something that doesn't exist to something that does. Unless you all intend to go out and buy an Acer W500 with 4 hours of battery life and that weighs two pounds this is at best a theoretical conversation until actual W8 tablets are in people's hands and can be evaluated in real-world use. And don't forget the Pro tablets come with all the stuff we love about Windows: 1) driver incompatibilities, 2) control panel, and 3) multiple menus, clicks, and "enters," to launch or access something. The UI formally known as Metro doesn't hide the fact that there's a huge resource intensive hulk of an OS to be tamed running in the background. How many general-use iPad candidates do you think will find that acceptable? And they’re MS’s bogie, not the 20% of the tablet market that’s using Android.
3) Until the complete feature set is known for both RT and Pro tablets and what apps will be available to them initially you can't have a price-value conversation. I highly doubt entry-level consumer targeted RT tablets will do some of things being discussed. Similarly if a loaded Pro tablet is $1K that changes the conversation when comparing it to a $500 Android tablet.
I'll check back in with you guys once the tablets are in people's hands for a while and then we can have a legitimate conversation of the pros and cons of each.
BTW, here's an excerpt of a review of the HP TouchPad when it was first released. Just because a monolithic company launches something its success isn't guaranteed. It’s too early to say whether W8 tablets will be a Zune or an XBox 360 for MS and no one here can do anything but proffer an opinion as to which way it will go.
"You would almost think that webOS had been designed for tablets from the very beginning. It feels more native to tablets than any other software on any other tablet, despite being an almost exact translation of the phone interface (minus almost all of the bezel gestures). Multitasking on anything else feels almost stupid compared to Cards. An open app is a card. You can stack them, sort them, re-arrange them, and when you're done, close them. Juggling a bunch makes you feel like you're getting stuff done. Palm's big tablet adaptation, panes, is a straight riff on the iPad Twitter UI. So in email and other complex apps, you slide layers—inboxes, message lists, actual messages—back and forth to move between them. Notifications, which pop down from the top of the scree, let you flip through the pile, one at a time, without ever opening the app-handy if you get IMs from five different people. They're great ideas."
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With the exception of one person, we are all on the same page here. Below is an excerpt from the OP. To me, it overlaps very well with your points and my argument. Somehow, this was turned into "How dare you put down Note10.1? Windows 8 tablets are DOA!" bickery.
With the new tablets coming designed specifically with Window 8 in mind, I think Microsoft has risen the par on tablet competition. As the upcoming Samsung Series 5 hybrid tablet, for example, is coming with a $650 based price, 11 hrs battery life (with the optional keyboard), 750g weight, and can run all window software. Even though I have not seen, touch or used one of these new machines, the fact that Window 8 has turned my 6 years old tablet into a brand new machine is exciting for me.
Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep. I bought it because I can carry it all day and not worry about battery, and I hardly need to run any PC applications these days when I am out. More importantly if I plan to use the PC all day, I probably need to bring the charger with me which will bring the weight up to 1kg or more. Since I carry my camera with me all day, the Note 10.1 is a better choice for me.
However, if you are looking into serious note taking and also need to run pc applications, I think the Window 8 tablets may be a good alternative. We will all know if this is true when the machines are officially announced in late Oct.
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[email protected] said:
WOW!! I wished someone had warned me about troll living here and that no comments other than good Note 10.1 comments are allowed in this forum. This will be my last post in the forum, leaving you alone to harass other people.
Best wishes!
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[email protected], welcome. Sorry about the resident W8 Hater. I recommend to just ignore him.
Thank you for sharing your experience with your Note(s) and your tablets with Windows 8! My experience with my Note 10.1 is pretty much the same as yours. I am really looking forward to trying out a Surface Pro or one of the other new W8 tablets that are coming out. Your post has just seriously reinforced that!
When you use One Note on a tablet, does it give you inking features for drawing pictures and hand writing notes similar to what S-Note does? I have W8 and One Note, but no Ink-enabled device to put them on to play with it myself.
tenderidol said:
With the exception of one person, we are all on the same page here.
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Who are "we?" I have no idea what everyone here's needs are. I also have no idea what the "cons" are going to be that will without doubt go along with the rosy PR blurb “pros” being thrown out. I'm in marketing so perhaps I'm less susceptible to spin than some of you guys because I create it. MS lost their way and have a bunch of simultaneous "Hail Mary's" launching concurrently (Cloud, W8 the OS, and W8 the tablet). I wish them nothing but the best. But I'd like to see some traction gained before drinking their Kool-Aid and declaring their success. And that will take months to realize. I'm a heavy productivity user and use OneNote, MS Office, and SharePoint so therefore a candidate for a W8 tablet. Only I'm not as eager to throw out my fairly evolved Android device to experience V1 of the h/w and s/w of an alternative. Months from now I may own a W8 tablet. Based on my personal needs and usage there's absolutely no rush. You guys can go first and if the world's not flat I'll follow you.
BarryH_GEG said:
Who are "we?" I have no idea what everyone here's needs are. I also have no idea what the "cons" are going to be that will without doubt go along with the rosy PR blurb “pros” being thrown out. I'm in marketing so perhaps I'm less susceptible to spin than some of you guys because I create it. MS lost their way and have a bunch of simultaneous "Hail Mary's" launching concurrently (Cloud, W8 the OS, and W8 the tablet). I wish them nothing but the best. But I'd like to see some traction gained before drinking their Kool-Aid and declaring their success. And that will take months to realize. I'm a heavy productivity user and use OneNote, MS Office, and SharePoint so therefore a candidate for a W8 tablet. Only I'm not as eager to throw out my fairly evolved Android device to experience V1 of the h/w and s/w of an alternative. Months from now I may own a W8 tablet. Based on my personal needs and usage there's absolutely no rush. You guys can go first and if the world's not flat I'll follow you.
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"We" as in "people who currently own the Note 10.1 and wanted to try and see the potential of upcoming Windows 8 tablets without forming any assumptions based on others' opinions". As you can see, nobody is saying that this will be a huge success, it's going to be "superior" or will definitely trump other tablets, etc. Let's see if the potential of the device is met by the hardware and the software first. As I stated, I have my reservations for the Atom-based CPU and 2 GB RAM in the Series 5. If it can't handle the load, I won't be moving over to the Series 7, because it's too heavy and pricey for me. I thought this was the original discussion.
tenderidol said:
see the potential
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Promise and potential are very different from practice and reality. And sometimes when they collide it isn’t pretty. Since this entire conversation is theoretical there can never be a decisive conclusion. I really don't have an opinion and won't until I can personally play with a W8 tablet and see how well it does the things I need it to do. Even then, my conclusion will only apply to me and my individual needs.
Think about this. Here's the iPad demographic.
iPad ownership is skewed toward young customers, with 27% of owners between 25 and 34. The average iPad owner is affluent, with a median income of $85,000 a year. Most importantly, they are much more likely to be buying things.
Don't you think that audience is using MS Office and OneNote professionally to earn the higher median income they do? Apple's sold 100MM iPads with no native access to MS Office. Taking a broader view I don't think it's the "killer app" many of you believe it will be. Especially if it comes at the price of a less refined h/w and s/w experience. There's also a certain cache that comes from owning an iPad. Android tablet owners tend to be classified as rugged individualists and technology enthusiasts. What will W8 tablet owners be? People that need access to MS apps? Pretty low on the "cool" scale, no? There’s more to a product’s success than just functionality.
Just food for thought while we're discussing the potential mass-market (in other words, not us) success of W8 tablets.
BarryH_GEG said:
Just food for thought while we're discussing the potential mass-market (in other words, not us) success of W8 tablets.
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Which we weren't until some folks hijacked the thread and went totally OT from the OP...
Related
I posted this in another forum, thought I will re-post it here.
I had Ipad2 for 2 weeks and returned it. Once you use android tablet for a week, you can't go back to Ipad 2.
There are lot of reasons to choose android over ipad. Couple of examples:
=> Google maps kicks ass in android. IPad also has google maps, but its crippled - there are no reviews, no 3D view, no rotating using multi-touch, etc..
=> Widgets make a big difference in the 10" screen. You get the see emails, weather, calendar in the main screen, esp. with re-sizable widgets. Switch on the tablet, look at important stuff, move on with your life. In Ipad, you need to search for the three apps in the sea of icons, open one, close, look for next app and so on. There's a sea of difference in usability.
=> Android task bar has short cuts to change lot of settings like brightness and is available without the need to close the app that you are on. Say, you are reading a webpage that has a link to youtube. For reading you may like low brightness, but video with dark background requires more brightness. Steps to change screen brightness in IPad: you need to close the current app, search for settings icon in the sea of app icons, open settings, look for 'screen' settings, open the settings, look for brightness control, change brightness, double tap the hardware button to see the previous app, click it to open where you were. In honeycomb, you just click the task bar icon, change brightness, done. Now, that's usability.
=> Ipad is 4:3, pretty useless for viewing videos/movies. Watching 16:9 movies in Ipad is painful. Netflix works in Ipad (in the works for android, not out yet), but I honestly couldn't use it in Ipad because of the 4:3 screen. It's like watching movie on the old CRT screen.
=> IPad has no flash.
=> IPad has no back button. Every app implements 'back' functionality in their own way. You need to search for the 'back' button in every app. It gets frustrating very fast. Android has a beautiful back button that's available always and behaves exactly the same way in every app. It's magical. Really.
This is just the tip of iceberg. The list goes on and on.
If you are not big on games, then the several thousand apps in the app store means nothing. Because every useful app has a counterpart in honeycomb.
I know this is a android/gtab 10.1 forum so we'll be obviously biased, but what do you think of ipad?
I agree with everything you have said - not to mention the specs are under that of the 10.1, and if the rumors are true around the place there will be an updated model either at the time of the release of the 4G (unlikely), or within a few months after...
I am crossing my fingers and waiting for the rumors to be confirmed because if an updated model with wqxga (retina display competitor) 300+ dpi, plus microSD (if it's not released with the coming model), and possible quad core cpu (although it might just be the exynos 1.2Ghz), comes out within that sort of time frame then bugger me you are already beating the released 'possible' specs of the 2012/2013 release of iPad3!
lol - I am seriously excited about the 10.1. I have no doubt it is going to rock the crap out of the iPad2 for all the reasons you have stated and many more.
I have no concerns about possible build issues with the device as I have an Omnia 2 which is the same high grade plastics they are using in the 10.1 and i have dropped it many many many times - the phone has no issues, no cracking no warping etc it is just like the day i bought it (with some minor scratches of course).
Also people say customer service is crap for Samsung - well that depends on the country you are in and your expectations but let me tell you here in the philippines where customer service for the majority of companies is unheard of, I have had my screen replaced on the Omnia 2 when i had some white dots appear (probably due to me dropping it down some stairs on to concrete), no questions asked, within 3 to 5 days. and that was with a cooked rom that came up with a naughty boot message.
So yeah I don't blame you for trading in your iPad2
I started writing out this long response on all the positive points I see with the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Not because I think the iPad 2 is better. Just wanted to point out some of the iPad's strengths because I do think the device is pretty good.
But I like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more, got worried I might come off wrong and get riped apart like a rabbit before a pack of wolves. Haha.
So instead of the long post, I'll just give a brief short list of what I consider some pros for the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1... and I emphasis I still like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more and am waiting to buy one.
* Over 50,000 tablet optimized apps. Original iPad came out over a year and has been massively successful. Apple has a huge head start. I think the Android optimized apps still count in the low hundreds right now. And I often see lesser quality with the Android versions. It'll improve, but it's going to take time.
* iOS is more stable. 3.1 has helped, Android Market doesn't bug out on me as much. But there are still stability issues with Honeycomb. I'm a little fearful to install too many apps on my Android tablets because I've had some apps have a negative impact on the entire tablet's performance. Even Motorola's CEO commented recently on this being a concern. iOS on the other hand I have no fear installing everything I see (had over 120 apps on my iPad 1) without fear of performance issues.
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
Still. An exciting thing about Android is this is it's first tablet OS, I think things are moving fast for Android, and we get to be along for the ride. It's only going to keep getting better. And we are already blessed with amazing freedom, flexibility, and customization options. This is what I love about Android.
And I had seriously thought about getting an iPad 2. There are some apps I know I like much more on iOS than Android. But I feel like I'm just giving up way too much control for that. And I think the apps will get better here.
Ravynmagi said:
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
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Yeah, this is weird. Samsung has a bigger battery, but 2 1/2 hours less runtime on the Anandtech review.
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
Ravynmagi said:
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
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I'm not sure about the "more polishness", but its more stable than honeycomb. I think honeycomb is more polished than ios, but it's less stable right now due to the FCs.
About battery life - honeycomb tablets don't have bad battery life. 8-10 hours battery life is not bad. Apple does have couple of more hours of battery life and better standby battery life, but then we are now in the bragging rights territory. If you charge every day and not going on international trips, the extra hour of battery life is not going to matter to most of the tablet buyers.
Same goes for app store. You said you have 120 apps installed in your ipad, average person has 5 to 20. Honeycomb had every app *I* wanted. The quality of third party apps was similar between Ipad and Honeycomb. But YMMV. If a person needs a specialized app that's not available in HC, then they need to stick with Ipad. OTOH, google apps are vastly superior to the ones in Ipad. That was the deciding factor for me.
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
With that said, while there are not many Honeycomb-specific apps, at least most pre-3.0 apps play nice with HC (upscaling for screen size).
I had a brief time (about 3 hours) where I thought the iPad2 would be a better option for me than the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Luckily, I was talked off the ledge. The only thing that had me leaning towards the Pad is tablet-specific apps, but in the end most of my tablet usage is through the browser.
What sealed the deal in my getting the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was the deep integration of Google services. Until iOS5 comes out, there is definitely nothing on the iPad that holds a candles to Google's Android-account management system (not that I'm aware of, but I an ignorant on this subject).
mightymouse2045 said:
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
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umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
ralexand said:
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
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It's true. iPhone apps run on iPad /w the same resolution (occupy a tiny area in the middle of the tablet) or 2x the resolution (occupy most of the tablet screen, but /w blurry text, etc.). Either way, I found it unusable.
OTOH, many, but not all, phone apps run well in HC. They scale nicely and you would hardly know that they are not designed for HC. Case in point, engadget app or many of the news apps.
smaskell said:
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
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lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
mightymouse2045 said:
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
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Yes, of course. I couldn't agree more. Just thought it was a bit of an odd way of putting it haha.
We have had a number of people coming into our Forum praising the upcoming Windows 8 tablets and putting down our beloved SGN10.1. Before any SGN10.1 owners fall for their hyperbole, please consider the following from PCWorld Magazine:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent..._8_tablets_have_what_it_takes_to_succeed.html
Potential Stumbling Blocks
There are a number of issues that could make Windows 8 tablets dead on arrival, or at least a very tough sell. Two of the biggest will be price, and confusion over differences between Windows on ARM (WOA) tablets, and x86/x64 architecture tablets.
ARM-based devices will probably be better tablets than their x86/x64 counterparts. WOA tablets will most likely be lighter, cooler, have longer battery life, and--most importantly--be cheaper. ARM-based tablets will be more on par with the competing tablets already in the market like the iPad, Motorola Xoom, Samsung Galaxy Tab, and others.
That all sounds great, but WOA tablets also come with significant handicaps that nullify most of what makes a Windows 8 tablet appealing. For example, WOA tablets can’t run traditional Windows software--they require apps written for the Metro UI.
Wes Miller from GetWired.com and Directions on Microsoft poses the question, “For enterprises who will have to rewrite their (non-Web) applications in Metro for WOA anyway, the question comes up, "why wouldn't I rewrite it for iOS instead?", since there is no way to run non-Microsoft Win32 apps on WOA.”
The bigger issue for WOA tablets is that Microsoft has revealed they are intended for “unmanaged environments”. What that translates to is that WOA tablets will not be able to connect to Windows domains and be managed like x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets, and other Windows systems.
Amobi says that there are arguments to be made for and against WOA tablets, and it’s still too early for a final verdict. But, he stresses, “If they cant join domains--game over.”
No worries. We still have x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets to fall back on, right? True, but there are some caveats.
An x86/x64 tablet is just squeezing a notebook or desktop into a touchscreen, flat-panel form factor. That has advantages, but we also know that running Windows takes a fair amount of processing horsepower and memory. While it may be possible to run Windows 8 with less RAM, 4GB is probably the minimum for acceptable performance. That is four times what most ARM tablets use.
When you build a tablet on x86/x64 architecture, and try to beef up the RAM to deliver adequate performance, the tablet starts to face other issues. As previously mentioned, users want tablets that are thin, light, and have endurance to last all day on a single charge. It is unlikely that x86/x64 tablets can truly compete with ARM-based rivals in these areas.
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As I have stated, W8 Tablets will be stuck in the middle. RT too underpowered to run true Windows software and Pro too small to run true Windows software properly.
DOA.
Hopefully these facts have taken some of the emotion out of this argument.
The SGN10.1 is and will be the most bang for your buck you can get in a pen based tablet for quite a while. If we get the Note 2 software, that will be even more true than it is now. No need for buyer's remorse. You made the right call.
Good thing most reviews are **** or we wouldn't have got the Note 10.1 based on reviews, amiright?
Quit white knighting the Note. It's a good tablet but there will come along better ones.
Every review of every tablet has a slant. There are no unbiased professional reviews. Or amateur reviews for that matter.
Nefariouss said:
Good thing most reviews are **** or we wouldn't have got the Note 10.1 based on reviews, amiright?
Quit white knighting the Note. It's a good tablet but there will come along better ones.
Every review of every tablet has a slant. There are no unbiased professional reviews. Or amateur reviews for that matter.
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So you are claiming this review is innacurate? Please point out what you specifically find to be false? Those are not opinions but just facts about how Windows 8 will work in a tablet environment. The reviewer is not discussing the merits or inadequacies of any particular tablet.
If you can debunk any of those claims now is your chance.
As far as "white knighting" the SGN10.1, this IS the SGN10.1 forum is it not? Maybe you got lost? The better question would be why are Windows 8 fanboys coming to our forum to disparage our device? I have drawn two conclusions regarding our visiting Windows 8 protagonists thus far. They are very enthusiastic and they are very thin skinned. Can you imagine someone coming to OUR forum to tell us the SGN10.1 is inadequate and then calling ME a troll when I dare disagree?
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I can't believe you rose to the bait in [email protected]'s original thread. He's comparing old-school Windows tablets that he upgraded to W8 and declaring victory for the platform going forward. People have been posting screen-on times for the Note of over 10 hours. An earlier Windows tablet would be lucky to clear 4 and weigh easily twice as much to do it. Like the rest of you I made a substantial investment in the Note knowing W8 tablets were around the corner. The reason I did it is that every new platform that's launched goes through start-up issues, suffers from lack of refinement, and has a dearth of apps in the beginning. If I jump on the W8 tablet band wagon it’ll be months after their launched and I feel no urgency to dump the Note which will without doubt continue to be a better consumption device for the foreseeable future. If your use of a tablet is 75+% complex inking and MS Office apps maybe you should jump on W8 Pro faster than me and join [email protected]
The challenge with W8 is that you can't make a generalized comparison to Android. The RT tablets are going to be low-feature consumer versions and the Pro versions higher-end (and priced) productivity devices. It's too early to say but I doubt a $300 RT tablet will deliver the stellar Wacom-driven inking experience [email protected] is hoping for. Similarly the starting price for a Pro tablet is probably for a pretty barren model. By the time you upgrade the various h/w components I can see them easily reaching the $1K that you originally suggested for a “loaded” model.
Regardless, the fat lady won't sing for at least a couple of months until after they're in people's hands so it's way too early to get in to a discussion about "my tablet (or OS) can beat up yours.” Why [email protected] decided to come to an Android forum just to share his personal opinions of his old-school Windows hardware is beyond me.
I'm a bait-riser from way back :silly:
I just get tired of the breathless hyperbole from these W8 disciples. I wouldn't have minded if he had just talked about how well his old tablets were running on W8, but he put our tablet down as second best and I can't have that
Nefariouss said:
Good thing most reviews are **** or we wouldn't have got the Note 10.1 based on reviews, amiright?
Quit white knighting the Note. It's a good tablet but there will come along better ones.
Every review of every tablet has a slant. There are no unbiased professional reviews. Or amateur reviews for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent point! If you take a look at Verge's "professional review", you wouldn't touch the Note10.1 with a ten-foot pole. Then again, here we are talking about it happily. Note 5.4 was declared DOA by almost every "professional reviewer" and we know how that went.
Let's wait and see before moving into a cult-like behavior over a tablet.
Even on the arm tablets the windows 8 interface will be present. There will be full office 2013, OneNote, and all metro apps. Plus it seems to be really smooth and slick on the reviews.
And this without the biggest thing. In one move the windows ecosystem will be bigger than the Android ecosystem. Apps will not be the super stretched phone apps, and but rather full tablet apps (witness the xda app as on example).
Does this mean I regret buying the note? No not all. But it does mean that once the windows 8 tablets are out I will not be taking it in to work or on trips. It will become more consumption based then productivity.
Lets not pretend that windows will somehow disappear just because you think it will be doa. Even vista sold more than all android tablets combined.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
---------- Post added at 05:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 PM ----------
Without even reading the full article I know the claim about windows requiring beefy hardware is bull****. I I have run windows 8 on a touch smart tx2 with 2 gigs, and on a q6600 with 1 gig and an i7 with 16 gigs. And I am running the note right now. Even on the touch smart win8 was smoother and performed better. I sadly the ntrig drivers don't work and the thing weighs a ton, and but the Clover trail smart pc from Samsung willost likely have a better experience than the note.
Also multitasking. I real split screen for almost every app.
And the finishing blow? OneNote. Nothing compares with OneNote.
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---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------
I do not have any idea why people are ignoring the published price of the Samsung tablets. Samsung has already said that the smart pc with Clover trail will be 650 with 64gig storage. We know it won't cost significantly more than top of the line android tablets, and will have free OneNote mx, and have comparable weight and battery life (if I believe samsung) and will use the same spen.
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oh mitchellvii. Poor, poor, mitchellvii.
Owning both a Win8 tab [Asus Eee Slate] and (obviously) the GNote10, I can say that no matter how hard Samsung or Android try, Windows is the true multi-tasker. No way around it. Also, definitely more capable to do ANY task.
The GNote10 does have it's advantages. Prolly the same reasons I bought one is the same reasons y'all bought one. Battery life, weight, slim, no fan, s-pen, and I guess Android based.
Just because Windows is hands down better doesn't mean the GNote is inadequate.
Don't be mad that the GNote is second best to a Windows tablet, be mad that the GNote will always be second best to an iPad.
I have my N10.1 3G for 3 weeks now, it accompanied me to travels and never ever failed..Neither failed my wife' s N10.1 her (she is more the gaming fraction in my family )
I worked easily in the plane in plane mode with stylus having four apps open, read some kindle books, diagnosed HR X-Rays preloaded, drawed comments on them for my junior docs, prepared some drafts for lectures, in summary the time was highly productive, more than ever achievable with my Vaio Z 14 supernotebook.
Why ? Its almost impossible to decently work with a notebook on the plane, at least in eco class .......
With the N10.1 You can !
With a fair data roaming fee I read my newspapers and PC/Android mags at breakfast and dinner, follow my beloved Ida community, post, answer emails and so forth.
I could do last aactivities also with my SGS III, but I LOVE the big screen and multitasking, I can do everything I did not do with my Note, this was finally too small for me for serious work.
But why am I still curious of the Win8 Surface?
For my lectures worldwide I need a fully functional PowerPoint including the capability to play embedded vids (every third slide is a vid!) and edit every slide as a would do it on my PC. I did not find an Android app capable of THIS. And I need fully functional Word and Excel (not stripped versions)
Second: I need connectibility to standard beamers with the good old VGA-D-sub connector
All this my beloved N10.1 can't give me.
If Surface Win8 provides these features I will buy it and be happy working with it, but my N10.1 will always be Nr. 1 (until Note 10.1 / 2 arrives :angel:)
mitchellvii said:
I'm a bait-riser from way back :silly:
I just get tired of the breathless hyperbole from these W8 disciples. I wouldn't have minded if he had just talked about how well his old tablets were running on W8, but he put our tablet down as second best and I can't have that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one is providing breathless hyperbole, everyone I have seen here is cautiously optimistic at best about Windows 8 tablets. If you think that's fanboyism then perhaps you need to take a good hard look in the mirror. No one here, including [email protected], has bashed the Note 10.1 in any way. You need to separate praising another OS from praising a specific device, and both of those from bashing our device. I love my Note 10.1 but there are obviously things it can't do, and to deny that is stupid. I do agree with you overall that Windows 8 tablets appear to be stuck on two extremes with Pro and RT and not able to meet the middle ground that the Note 10.1 reaches, but I think with time and competition they will be at least competitive with Android tablets on at least 2 or 3 out of functionality, battery life, and form factor, and value.
Personally I don't think I need my tablet to be a full Windows PC and do full multitasking with floating windows and the like, but that's because I've got plenty of beefy systems for real work and my tablet is a great supplement to them. Also I use Linux primarily and Windows only for gaming but that's a separate point. For those that want or need to have one device that does everything, a Windows 8 Pro tablet may be that device. You'll compromise on battery life and weight but gain a lot of extra functionality. And you keep ignoring the possibility of Atom powered Windows 8 Pro tablets that could be competitive on battery life and weight too (not equal to ARM, but at least in the same ballpark) in addition to cost.
Honestly, I think everything that can be speculated about W8 at this point as been said and we should have a moratorium on further discussion here until the first devices are actually out.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
My "other" portable device next to the OG G-Tab in its BT keyboard case. It weighs the same as the Note, runs W7 Ultimate (for now), has all the MS Office apps including Access, packs a 256GB Samsung SSD, has a 1600x768 display, GPS, and a built in VZW card. The Android tablet's a better consumption device and the VAIO's a better productivity device. They both are adequate in reverse. Which I travel with depends on what I'll be doing. If I had to pick one I'd pick the Note because it's more versatile and can "fake" productivity better than the VAIO can "fake" consumption. Who knows? Maybe a W8 tablet will end up being the perfect blend.
mitchellvii said:
We have had a number of people coming into our Forum praising the upcoming Windows 8 tablets and putting down our beloved SGN10.1. Before any SGN10.1 owners fall for their hyperbole, please consider the following from PCWorld Magazine:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason you are getting such a cross-comparison is because the SGN 10.1 is marketed as an alternative to Windows tablets. People buy the SGN 10.1 to do things that an IPad can't with handwriting functions. People want to know if the 10.1 really fills the gap between the IPad and Windows devices.
I think the general consensus is that for light note taking and sketching it does and for hardcore professionals (like lawyers) it doesn't.
I loved the Note 10.1... but I returned it as I'm in the latter category. I need seemless cloud and app integration.
FWIW, I went ahead and put the IPad 3 screen up against the Note. It really would be difficult for me to accept a lower resolution than the Note 10.1 provides. The new Slate 5 is going to have a worse PPI than the Note. I don't think I'll be purchasing that device.
crazeco said:
the SGN 10.1 is marketed as an alternative to Windows tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually marketed as a creativity and consumption device.
“Our goal with the Samsung GALAXY Note 10.1 was simple – redefine the tablet experience,” said Tim Baxter, President, Samsung Electronics America. “The S Pen offers both active content creation as well as passive content consumption, while the Multiscreen capability finally enables true multitasking. For the user, the resulting experience is completely new and quite unexpected.”
http://www.samsung.com/us/news/20228
But you raise an interesting question. How will companies like Samsung, Asus, Acer, and Lenovo market and position their W8 tablets, especially RT, when they all offer similarly priced and featured Android tablets? The only one that can/will go balls out and say W8 is better than Android is MS. Maybe that's what they were afraid and what caused them to build the Surface on their own.
BarryH_GEG said:
It's actually marketed as a creativity and consumption device.
“Our goal with the Samsung GALAXY Note 10.1 was simple – redefine the tablet experience,” said Tim Baxter, President, Samsung Electronics America. “The S Pen offers both active content creation as well as passive content consumption, while the Multiscreen capability finally enables true multitasking. For the user, the resulting experience is completely new and quite unexpected.”
http://www.samsung.com/us/news/20228
But you raise an interesting question. How will companies like Samsung, Asus, Acer, and Lenovo market and position their W8 tablets, especially RT, when they all offer similarly priced and featured Android tablets? The only one that can/will go balls out and say W8 is better than Android is MS. Maybe that's what they were afraid and what caused them to build the Surface on their own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand by my statement that the SGN 10.1 is marketed as an alternative to the W8 tablets like the Surface because this is the (earlier) Microsoft press release:
"Surface is designed to seamlessly transition between consumption and creation, without compromise."
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2012/jun12/06-18announce.aspx
crazeco said:
I stand by my statement that the SGN 10.1 is marketed as an alternative to the W8 tablets like the Surface because this is the (earlier) Microsoft press release:
"Surface is designed to seamlessly transition between consumption and creation, without compromise."
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2012/jun12/06-18announce.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you mean that you see the Note 10.1 as an alternative to W8 tablets? Because from what I read, the statements from Samsung don't really say that at all. You're using a statement from Microsoft (who, last I checked does not make nor market the Note 10.1) as the basis for how Samsung is marketing its device.
Uh, forgive me, but that makes no sense. How Samsung attempts to sell its device is how it is marketed, not how people and other companies respond to it. I think the point you're actually making is that the Note 10.1, competitively speaking, is seen as an alternative device to a W8 tablet, but that's not the same thing as saying that's how it's being marketed. Samsung hasn't said flat out that they want it to be an alternative to W8. They're aiming it at students and businesspeople for creative tasks, general multi-tasking, and note-taking. Somehow I think a W8 tablet should be able to do far more than that, productivity-wise.
Just my two cents, though...
wingzero2085 said:
How Samsung attempts to sell its device is how it is marketed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To add to your post, PR's crafted months in advance. The words Samsung chose were with clear knowledge of the imminent announcement of the Ativ(s). It'll be interesting to see how competing Android and Windows tablets are marketed and positioned by the different OEM's. Kind of like a single dealership selling Honda's and Toyota's in the same showroom.
wingzero2085 said:
Don't you mean that you see the Note 10.1 as an alternative to W8 tablets? Because from what I read, the statements from Samsung don't really say that at all. You're using a statement from Microsoft (who, last I checked does not make nor market the Note 10.1) as the basis for how Samsung is marketing its device.
Uh, forgive me, but that makes no sense. How Samsung attempts to sell its device is how it is marketed, not how people and other companies respond to it. I think the point you're actually making is that the Note 10.1, competitively speaking, is seen as an alternative device to a W8 tablet, but that's not the same thing as saying that's how it's being marketed. Samsung hasn't said flat out that they want it to be an alternative to W8. They're aiming it at students and businesspeople for creative tasks, general multi-tasking, and note-taking. Somehow I think a W8 tablet should be able to do far more than that, productivity-wise.
Just my two cents, though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft's PR came first. Samsung responded by mirroring Microsoft's PR.
Microsoft on June 18, 2012: "Surface is designed to seamlessly transition between consumption and creation, without compromise."
Samsung on August 15, 2012: “Our goal with the Samsung GALAXY Note 10.1 was simple – redefine the tablet experience,” said Tim Baxter, President, Samsung Electronics America. “The S Pen offers both active content creation as well as passive content consumption..."
I'm happy to have a debate with you regarding which device will better achieve "consumption" and "creation" - but I'm not going to debate facts. It's a fact that Samsung is marketing this device to the same type of consumer that Microsoft is marketing a pen supported Surface tablet. That's why threads like this exist in the Samsung Note 10.1 forum, because the SGN 10.1 is an alternative to the forthcoming Windows 8 tablet.
My personal config will be:
Win8 Surface Pro to run full "Office" and special medical apps not available for android (CAT-Scan-Viewer etc.) + connect to beamers for lectures (since it has Miniport-Display plug)
+
Beloved SGN 10.1 on the go and during lectures remote control Win8 surface Pro :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Makes 1,6 kg to carry around ..........................
troed said:
My personal config will be:
Win8 Surface Pro to run full "Office" and special medical apps not available for android (CAT-Scan-Viewer etc.) + connect to beamers for lectures (since it has Miniport-Display plug)
+
Beloved SGN 10.1 on the go and during lectures remote control Win8 surface Pro :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Makes 1,6 kg to carry around ..........................
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny... I have the same plan for very similar reasons.
tenderidol said:
Funny... I have the same plan for very similar reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly I don't see why you would want something other than the Surface Pro in that situation. Its going to have similar battery life, better pen support and will not weight a lot more. Not to mention higher res screen.
Personally I'll be getting the Ativ Smart PC (the atom one with the low res screen) to replace the note. I have a student I can gift the note 10.1 to if he does a good job with an upcoming conference. SmartPC will probably be my go to laptop/tablet hybrid device.
I would sell a right leg for a kindle paperwhite with an active digitizer and direct export to OneNote.
After realizing that I dont need a powerful Core i3, i5, or i7 laptop for my daily use, but do need long battery life similar to the tf700 in a sleek chassis that's preferably fanless, I've been trying to find a good looking, Clover Trail Atom 11"-13" Windows 8 generation laptop/netbook, but it seems that everything is a hybrid I got excited when I saw the Lenovo IdeaPad 11", but to my dismay, it's running RT via ARM. Such a missed opportunity. Recalling my time with the Asus Transformer Infinifty TF700, and how that was a great piece of hardware (minus the flimsy dock + Asus' bugs) I've decided to fold and get a hybrid + a large DropBox account. After looking through the Googles, and YouTubes, it seems that my best bet would be the TF810. Only issue I'm having is I live in the states. Another issue is it's price. It's waaaay too close to a Acer S7 11" variant which was what I originally planned on buying, if that's what I'd have to pay then I'd pay it. From what I've seen and read, the new Atom processors
run Windows 8 relatively flawlessly. I do not plan on playing games on it at all.
My purposes for a laptop are:
YouTube, Netflix, Hulu+, HBOgo
Light Image editing via GIMP
Google Docs and Office Suit for on the go doc editing
(hence the need for long battery)
RSS reading when not using my iPad mini
Google Chrome + extensions
LTE would be a plus, but I can tether.
What are your suggestions for me?
Thanks for your time.
Your needs and observations are similar to my ones.
I have question though, and how is you being in USA an issue in all this?
From what I know at least you will get better price on your device than we in Europe
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Have you considered the Acer W510? From what I understand from your post, it should fit right in your pocket
Now one thing the build quality isn't on pair with say an ipad or a surface tablet, but then again its quite cheap, and personally I really like it
//M
W510 would be okay if you just wanted a tablet without a keyboard. The keyboard doesn't seem that good, and keyboards on a 10 inch tablet are too cramped. And if I was just getting a tablet, the upcoming ASUS ME400 looks a lot better.
I like the Samsung 500T, it's what I have. It's downside is the glossy plastic back is a bit slippery and no secondary battery. It's upsides is a full sized USB port on the tablet, front facing speakers (which are a kinda weak at times though), and a pen with a convenient storage slot. Also Samsung seems to be doing pretty well so far with driver updates.
Another possibility I like is the Lenovo Lynx. This huge downside to this one seems to be the 32GB limit on the micro SD slot (I'm kind of hoping this is a mistake in the specs, seems odd to not support SDXC), also has no pen. The upside is the quality looks really nice and Lenovo usually has great keyboards.
m.klinge said:
Have you considered the Acer W510? From what I understand from your post, it should fit right in your pocket
Now one thing the build quality isn't on pair with say an ipad or a surface tablet, but then again its quite cheap, and personally I really like it
//M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did. 10" is just not enough for work. 11-12" seems to be the best compromise between fun/mobility/tablet itself usability and work mode in laptop look (I don't know if what I just said makes any sense).
Since I want to use this device for watching films I am glad they are limited to 1366x768 res.
Netflix, Hulu+, HBO Go and 720 p mkv dont look that good on Full HD screen.
Also Atom would struggle even more with higher res and battery life would be shorter.
My takeaway from CES 2013 reports is that the second wave of Win8 toys will be better than the first (2012) wave in every way: availability/functionality/performance/price. These should start dribbling out in spring, and pricing will come down for back-to-school in Aug, perhaps sooner. I would not consider a 1st-gen Win8 device at this point, not unless there's a substantial discount--that includes the Surface Pro. Of course, it depends on whether you can wait.
My second takeaway from CES is that RT is on life support. Virtually all of the CES roll-out was about x86. Big vendors like Samsung and HP won't have RT models. Whether RT dies or not will depend on MS' handling of it, which has been spectacularly incompetent thus far. I think it will live on, if only because MS will need ARM to compete against Android at the $200-300 price points. But as of now, RT has no value proposition to speak of.
It's not only the hardware that is v1.0. Win8 is a v1.0 as well, and will take time to get over the teething issues. I fully expect a point upgrade (or SP) by summer at latest, in time for back-to-school. I think it'll be a point upgrade, as Windows 8 has a stigma attached in the eyes of the public, and a 8.1 or 8.5 is the simplest PR method to convey improvements.
Succinctly, Win8 RTM (and associated hardware) in 2012 was basically a second public beta. The real launch will be by Q3 and Q4 2013. Whatever you buy today will be substantially outmoded by year-end, so I would stay away from anything too expensive. Think stopgap.
e.mote said:
My takeaway from CES 2013 reports is that the second wave of Win8 toys will be better than the first (2012) wave in every way: availability/functionality/performance/price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't it the usually way with everything in IT/electronic world?
I can also bet that 3rd generation will be better than the 2nd and in some cases we might see it by the end of this year...?
I don't mind W8 issues and hardware that will be "old" in few months as long as it will do what I need it to do.
I also would not be so harsh with Windows 8. Either they run out of time or inconsistency between Modern Ui and Destkop mode was not that visible for those who created system as they worked with it every single day + they are advanced user not "Mr Joe Public".
They need small SP (mostly for essential programs like Mail or IE) so that they can work "as one" in both modes - sort of like Chrome today.
Second thing is inconsistency between operations in two modes. Right click on the mouse should show more similar functions (like lack of properties in modern ui).
Anyway - for me question is - which hybrid with screen of 11" will be/is the best and will last longest.
As much as I am scared of Asus Warranty service in Poland it look like TF810 is the best choice.
I just bought 128GB SSD for W8 in my desktop (old C2Q machine) and the only thing that bothers me is size of "HD" (64GB) in those devices... seems to me that W8 Pro truly needs 120/128GB + sd extension for nice, long-haul relation ship.
I agree with e.mote.
First generations tend to be the most rough. It's called the bleeding edge of technology for a good reason. Your second to third generation they usually have the design issues mostly figured out, the drivers issues resolved, and it's mostly about performance. But this first generation, there are lots of mistakes being made, lessons to be learned, and problems yet to be fixed. The first generation is the beta test for the die hards willing to pay for it.
I don't mind - just want to get the best device out of those bad ones
I need it for almost everyday work - I write a lot an I need something like that - at the same time ultrabooks are to big, laptop blow hot air... so... hybrid with atom looks like a best choice...
And will allow me to keep ipad "evening comfort"
>Isn't it the usually way with everything in IT/electronic world?
It's the old chestnut: Buy whenever you want, because tech will always get cheaper/better. But as savvy shoppers know, product releases are seasonal, and certain times are better than others to buy things. As well, veteran users of Microsoft products know that MS v1.0 is not where you want to be.
>I can also bet that 3rd generation will be better than the 2nd and in some cases we might see it by the end of this year...?
That's an interesting remark, as the usual PC cycle is annual, but recently we've seen multiple product intros within the same year, eg the iPad 3 & 4 last year. That's due to the quickened pace of competition n a wide-open market. Then, all the more reason not to buy into a v1.0 if possible, because a v2.0 is only a few months off. That's where the biggest functionality jump lies. 2.0->3.0 is usually more incremental.
>Anyway - for me question is - which hybrid with screen of 11" will be/is the best and will last longest.
Your selection will be broader come spring/summer, as opposed to the handful available at this point. This is the worst time of the year to buy new PC gear. As said, it depends on whether you can wait.
There is also the larger question of whether hybrid as a category will fly, or will it suffer from the neither-fish-nor-fowl syndrome. There haven't been enough models out yet to judge, but we'll find out this year. Surface Pro will be a bellwether.
For now I will wait since the only device in Polish shops is (are, as there are two) Ativ Tabs.
I will wait until I can compare them (touch them) in the shops and than decide.
I definitely have get device before summer as I will not be able to work away from home
Since I do not think 2nd gen will be out till summer I may get one now.
If W8 will be slow and if 1st gen hybrids with W8 will be slow I don't think manufacturers will rush with 2nd gen.
Atom hybrids are supposed to replace netbooks but not with this price level, especially that we have the likes of Asus X202 (small laptop with touch screen) that are much cheaper.
I guess we will see some premiers in autumn, lots of marketing talk, shows, etc... but it will take some time before they will actually get to the shops. Few manufacturers will make it in time for X-mass but again it will be worth to wait until all of them are in the shops.
This way I would never buy anything as 3rd gen would be "right behind the corner" .
If it will have nice screen, keyboard to write and will play movies + no fan and log battery life I can have it now.
It will be way better than Android Transformers
just wondering if the release of Microsoft surface Windows 8 pro will render all the Android tablets outdated...
what would be the fate of g note 10.1, when the surface hits the shelf Feb 9th? Will you dish your note?
let's talk about its pro and cons
Will it be the finished article is the usual MS new release question .
jje
First of all, windows 8 sucks.
Ring out, Galaxy Note 10.1 is still the winner. Dont see anything useful in the surface pro and win8. too complicated for me as a win7 user, and the surface pro is too expensive. I still dont regret that I have bought the note 10.1
There's nothing to discuss about.
I don't like Windows 8 at all. This is the first Windows OS that I haven't updated my home systems to as soon as they are available. And it's not a matter of cost since I have access to 10 licenses at no cost. I installed it on my laptop and tried to use it for a few weeks and went back to 7.
While I think it's an OS that's more suitable for a tablet or phone than a desktop, I still think it's awful. I just think MS made a huge mistake with this thing.
IOW, my Note isn't going anywhere in the near future. And when it goes, it won't be for a Surface anything.
Yes. The gnote wasn't that good of a tablet anyways and the only thing appealing about it was the wacom digitizer, in which case the Surface Pro has it outclassed because you can run full fledged applications such as photoshop on it. ARM tablets are toys compared to x86 tablets but it in the future you'll still see low cost tablets from the Nexus series being popular.
Really even atom tablets today does tremendously more than what $500 android tablets are capable off and they often cost only $50 to a $100 more. And with incoming Haswell it'll address any negatives such as battery life. But with that being said atom tablets are already well within 10 to 11 hours of battery life while i5 variants are ranging around 5 to 7. Unless manufactures see this as a method of profit and start to include smaller and smaller batteries, (or razor thin ones) x86 tablets in the future will be comparable if not better in battery life while offering substantially more power.
simple answer.
NO.
Lol
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
In before stupid gNote zealots attack and flame any attempt to have a honest conversation about the Pros & Cons of the gNote.
Just like before http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1869148
Because the gNote has no Cons and does no wrongs.
BBlax said:
Yes. The gnote wasn't that good of a tablet anyways and the only thing appealing about it was the wacom digitizer, in which case the Surface Pro has it outclassed because you can run full fledged applications such as photoshop on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surely using a stylus on ps touch, is 10x better than using your finger on a surface pro. Outclassed :laugh:
BBlax said:
... But with that being said atom tablets are already well within 10 to 11 hours of battery life while i5 variants are ranging around 5 to 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which i5 tablets get 5 - 7 of actual use? As a previous owner of one who just ditched it for the note I am very curious. My biggest problem was by far sub par battery life.
I think surface pro is the future of the Windows branch of "PC" for the masses....even though it will take a couple of years before they are palatable. But unfortunately I also think that the market is much larger for casual users (those who initially only want web and email). IPad, Asus, Samsung tablets are going to become even more prevalent. 20 years ago only ultrageeks used computers, today grandma has a Facebook acct. There are so many people that mobile computing is being used by now.
People who want to run Photoshop and other real warez will be fulfilled by the new surface pro types that I think eventually will become laptop and desktop replacements as well. At the same time the Apple and Android apps are slowly closing the gap. There is much more complex software available for mobile platforms than there was just a few years ago. This is where many new developers have emerged and it is a market where traditional softwares are dying to get into.
Microsoft is wayyyyy to late to the game, and they will never capture the casual users. I think they will hold a smaller market of business and previous PC users who haven't yet completely jumped ship. Apple and Android are here to stay as the majority, and Microsoft unfortunately as the minority.
That being said I still use my custom built Intel Z77/i5 3570K-based PC with 32GB RAM and Samsung 830 SSDs for RAW photo editing in Lightroom and Photoshop, using MATLAB, Visual Studio, Mathematica, Sony Vegas, Handbrake, Acrobat, etc, etc, as well as an occasional game of BF3. I use my phone and tablet for everything else.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I love my note 10.1 I look at all info on tablets cause of curiosity but so far I want for nothing my note does all I want it to be able to do
Sent from my GT-N8000 using Tapatalk HD
I think my desktop is enough for windows . I dont need windows tablet . My note 10.1 enough for me outside my house
just like others have said a big NO, i'm sure you have heard recently android is growing fast in terms of market share, microsoft dropped everything and tried to catch up with windows 8, too little, too late, microsoft are not only alienating thier pc gamer userbase with such a horrofic UI in windows 8 but most gaming card drivers don't work on 8 so why should they upgrade and loose features?
lets see if anyone will take something like that outside to work and be a laughing stock, the app store is nothing compared to ios and android, microsoft will never compare to either of them, not even a child can use windows 8 properly check out youtube and see for yourself, windows 8 is overcomplicated sqeezing tablet features into a desktop is the dumbest idea i have heard in my life, what the were they thinking?
Been Waiting on Microsoft Surface Pro for Work
Well, I own a Galaxy Nexus and N7 and have owned an iPad4. I am anxiously awaiting the MS SPro because I am hoping that the stylus integration will truly eliminate the use of pen/pad of my note taking. I also look forward to the integrate of the stylus with One Note.
The MS SPro stopped me from buying a Google Nexus 10 (no pen); Galaxy Note 10.1 (pen but less than ideal integration with Google Drive - i.e., no editing of slide presentations in the Drive).
If the writing experience is good; if I can access my PowerPoint presentations within the SkyDrive and edit them with the stylus, or touch screen, or keyboard and if the integration with One Note is good, particularly using the pen .... the MS SPro may become the preferred business tablet ...
with Google Tablets occupying the purely consumption space.
VERY Good point about annotating Power Points.
So far it's been basically impossible to do on Android.
No one wants to have to convert to PDF all the time.
Until SoftMaker remakes their Office Suite to the same level of functionality as their Windows Mobile 6 version (which basically WAS MS Office) Android can never be a serious productivity tool.
So far lots of Office Suites miss a majority of functions and even LOSE document data you originally had put in the document from the official MS Office, if you save.
With the gazillions MS spent on advertising Surface RT and even opening pop-up stores in malls to sell it they sold fewer than 1MM over the holidays. Samsung canceled plans to bring to bring the Ativ RT to the U.S. because of lack of consumer interest. Surface Pro is nothing more than Surface RT with the ability to run legacy Windows apps. The devices are twice as thick, twice as heavy, and battery life is unknown. The real change in personal computing is the addition of touch screen interaction and you'll see most new ultrabooks and notebooks including it. When that happens it's really just a choice of picking the Windows device that best suits people's needs - a small light ultrabook with a touchscreen with better battery life or a heavy Surface Pro with limitations and a removable display. Legacy Windows with all of its viruses and maintenance chores really isn't a competitor to consumption devices like iPad and Android tablets. And unless something changes Surface RT is already a fail. Samsung canceling the Ativ RT and releasing updated G-Tab's next month is a pretty good that Android will be around for awhile.
well, February 9th is just around the corner.... let's wait and see if Microsoft will surprise us.
I actually have a surface rt as well. It's inferior to the Note in almost all ways, but it definitely has two advantages.
1 the type keyboard is extremely nice to use and convenient
2 native ms office support is great when you need to work with word, ppt docs, and etc
Sent from my GT-N8010 using xda app-developers app
padesy said:
well, February 9th is just around the corner.... let's wait and see if Microsoft will surprise us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no surprise, here's the specs from their site. In the 64GB version, because the OS and installed apps are huge, there's only 23GB left for the user. And it's already confirmed to get half the battery life of Surface RT.
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/surface-with-windows-8-pro/specifications
So...
$999 - 128GB Surface Pro (23GB is way too little available storage)
$250 - Office 2013 license (it's not included in Surface Pro)
$130 - "Type" cover (the "touch" cover included would drive productivity users nuts)
$1,379
I don't see people lining up for it.
Here's an interesting article comparing the RT to Pro...
http://www.zdnet.com/why-im-not-trading-my-surface-rt-for-a-surface-pro-7000010132/
dhd1802 said:
Surely using a stylus on ps touch, is 10x better than using your finger on a surface pro. Outclassed :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except the Surface Pro has a full sized pen power by a Wacom digitizer.
Full HD too. No 800p crap.
299792458 said:
Which i5 tablets get 5 - 7 of actual use? As a previous owner of one who just ditched it for the note I am very curious. My biggest problem was by far sub par battery life.
I think surface pro is the future of the Windows branch of "PC" for the masses....even though it will take a couple of years before they are palatable. But unfortunately I also think that the market is much larger for casual users (those who initially only want web and email). IPad, Asus, Samsung tablets are going to become even more prevalent. 20 years ago only ultrageeks used computers, today grandma has a Facebook acct. There are so many people that mobile computing is being used by now.
People who want to run Photoshop and other real warez will be fulfilled by the new surface pro types that I think eventually will become laptop and desktop replacements as well. At the same time the Apple and Android apps are slowly closing the gap. There is much more complex software available for mobile platforms than there was just a few years ago. This is where many new developers have emerged and it is a market where traditional softwares are dying to get into.
Microsoft is wayyyyy to late to the game, and they will never capture the casual users. I think they will hold a smaller market of business and previous PC users who haven't yet completely jumped ship. Apple and Android are here to stay as the majority, and Microsoft unfortunately as the minority.
That being said I still use my custom built Intel Z77/i5 3570K-based PC with 32GB RAM and Samsung 830 SSDs for RAW photo editing in Lightroom and Photoshop, using MATLAB, Visual Studio, Mathematica, Sony Vegas, Handbrake, Acrobat, etc, etc, as well as an occasional game of BF3. I use my phone and tablet for everything else.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Acer W700. It has a 1000mah larger battery than the Surface Pro.
I absolutely love the new super long battery life of the Atom Z2760. By reading reviews of the Tablets I am finding out that all day battery life is absolutely no problem. Especially with the battery upgrade you can do with Dell on the Latitude 10 optional “60 WHR 4-Cell Battery”. People are getting like days of battery life.
I was really torn between the Microsoft Surface Pro which seems like a beast with all the loves and kisses of an amazing tablet but the battery life is horrid. I am currently going back to college and am looking for a note taking power house that will absolutely last all day, let’s say 8 hours. I know the Microsoft Surface Pro will be fast and the perfect size but will not last all day maybe 4 to 5 hours.
So battery life is my absolutely main objective. Even though I would love to have the Surface I prefer battery life. Other people might only need 4 hours of battery life and the Surface will be fine for them.
So back to my main question about the famous Haswell chip. I really want to pull the trigger on the Dell Latitude 10 because of the upgraded battery but I am reading about the Haswell chip and it seems to be everything tablets are not right now. I know you will always be in a 6 month loop with technology with something always better around the corner but this is something different. They say this is revolutionary and will increase performance and battery life by leaps and bounds. They are building the chip and tablet from the ground up with the Haswell.
What do I do? I mean will the Haswell actually be the amazing new Tablet revolution that everyone is talking about or is it just a bunch of hype? I mean how much more battery life can you pour into a Tablet over the Clovertrial.
I really do not need the performance upgrades of Haswell so much because I will be mainly using the tablet for note taking. I do not care about gaming, but same price and better performace is always nice in case you ever need it.
Please give me your thoughts or similar experiences. Will you be buying a Tablet now or waiting? Do you think it’s worth it to wait or just buy now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I only want a full blown windows 8 experience as well, not RT, Android, or anything else.
Best,
Needspractice
needspractice said:
I absolutely love the new super long battery life of the Atom Z2760. By reading reviews of the Tablets I am finding out that all day battery life is absolutely no problem. Especially with the battery upgrade you can do with Dell on the Latitude 10 optional “60 WHR 4-Cell Battery”. People are getting like days of battery life.
I was really torn between the Microsoft Surface Pro which seems like a beast with all the loves and kisses of an amazing tablet but the battery life is horrid. I am currently going back to college and am looking for a note taking power house that will absolutely last all day, let’s say 8 hours. I know the Microsoft Surface Pro will be fast and the perfect size but will not last all day maybe 4 to 5 hours.
So battery life is my absolutely main objective. Even though I would love to have the Surface I prefer battery life. Other people might only need 4 hours of battery life and the Surface will be fine for them.
So back to my main question about the famous Haswell chip. I really want to pull the trigger on the Dell Latitude 10 because of the upgraded battery but I am reading about the Haswell chip and it seems to be everything tablets are not right now. I know you will always be in a 6 month loop with technology with something always better around the corner but this is something different. They say this is revolutionary and will increase performance and battery life by leaps and bounds. They are building the chip and tablet from the ground up with the Haswell.
What do I do? I mean will the Haswell actually be the amazing new Tablet revolution that everyone is talking about or is it just a bunch of hype? I mean how much more battery life can you pour into a Tablet over the Clovertrial.
I really do not need the performance upgrades of Haswell so much because I will be mainly using the tablet for note taking. I do not care about gaming, but same price and better performace is always nice in case you ever need it.
Please give me your thoughts or similar experiences. Will you be buying a Tablet now or waiting? Do you think it’s worth it to wait or just buy now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I only want a full blown windows 8 experience as well, not RT, Android, or anything else.
Best,
Needspractice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm like you and was stuck and didn't know what to do. After researching online it seems Haswell tablets wont be out until the end of this year, but I needed a tablet now. I went with the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2. It's faster than my SurfaceRT was and I absolutely love the digitizer. I use the pen mainly as a mouse when in the full desktop. It makes a huge difference having the pen to use as a mouse. If they refresh the Thinkpad2, I plan to sell my current one to acquire the haswell version. You always have that choice if you don't mind ebay/craigslist.
I absolutely love the new super long battery life of the Atom Z2760. By reading reviews of the Tablets I am finding out that all day battery life is absolutely no problem. Especially with the battery upgrade you can do with Dell on the Latitude 10 optional “60 WHR 4-Cell Battery”. People are getting like days of battery life.
I was really torn between the Microsoft Surface Pro which seems like a beast with all the loves and kisses of an amazing tablet but the battery life is horrid. I am currently going back to college and am looking for a note taking power house that will absolutely last all day, let’s say 8 hours. I know the Microsoft Surface Pro will be fast and the perfect size but will not last all day maybe 4 to 5 hours.
So battery life is my absolutely main objective. Even though I would love to have the Surface I prefer battery life. Other people might only need 4 hours of battery life and the Surface will be fine for them.
So back to my main question about the famous Haswell chip. I really want to pull the trigger on the Dell Latitude 10 because of the upgraded battery but I am reading about the Haswell chip and it seems to be everything tablets are not right now. I know you will always be in a 6 month loop with technology with something always better around the corner but this is something different. They say this is revolutionary and will increase performance and battery life by leaps and bounds. They are building the chip and tablet from the ground up with the Haswell.
What do I do? I mean will the Haswell actually be the amazing new Tablet revolution that everyone is talking about or is it just a bunch of hype? I mean how much more battery life can you pour into a Tablet over the Clovertrial.
I really do not need the performance upgrades of Haswell so much because I will be mainly using the tablet for note taking. I do not care about gaming, but same price and better performace is always nice in case you ever need it.
Please give me your thoughts or similar experiences. Will you be buying a Tablet now or waiting? Do you think it’s worth it to wait or just buy now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I only want a full blown windows 8 experience as well, not RT, Android, or anything else.
Best,
Needspractice
me too.
customise 128GB SSD.
on dual booting 7 and 8:good:
too use separated.
I would definitely consider an iPad for educational use. They're excellent for note taking and reading textbooks. No, I'm not kidding.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
But he wants Win 8.
veeman said:
I would definitely consider an iPad for educational use. They're excellent for note taking and reading textbooks. No, I'm not kidding.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, let's pay more than a Win8 tablet to get a fourth of the usability (and I'm being generous with the iPad's usefulness)
I am in the same boat. I want a windows 8 tablet sooooooo much. I want to trade my laptop which weighs 7lbs for a nice, light tablet and I want to build a cheap pc for home gaming. However I don't want the Atoms. Not enough performance. And I wouldn't mind paying 600-700 bucks for an i3/i5 tablet right now, but I would hate myself if the Haswells came out with almost double the battery life and more performance for the same price.
So I've decided to be patient and work through this school year using my laptop. All the while saving up for my upgrade. Then at the end of next summer the Haswells should be on sale or cheaper. Or if they weren't as much of an improvement as we expected I can get the current tablets for dirt cheap. Next summer the surface pro will probably be around $500 at some places.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Censura_Umbra said:
Yeah, let's pay more than a Win8 tablet to get a fourth of the usability (and I'm being generous with the iPad's usefulness)
I am in the same boat. I want a windows 8 tablet sooooooo much. I want to trade my laptop which weighs 7lbs for a nice, light tablet and I want to build a cheap pc for home gaming. However I don't want the Atoms. Not enough performance. And I wouldn't mind paying 600-700 bucks for an i3/i5 tablet right now, but I would hate myself if the Haswells came out with almost double the battery life and more performance for the same price.
So I've decided to be patient and work through this school year using my laptop. All the while saving up for my upgrade. Then at the end of next summer the Haswells should be on sale or cheaper. Or if they weren't as much of an improvement as we expected I can get the current tablets for dirt cheap. Next summer the surface pro will probably be around $500 at some places.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A fourth of the usability of a Windows RT tablet? Heck no. The iPad has way more stable, useful apps.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
veeman said:
A fourth of the usability of a Windows RT tablet? Heck no. The iPad has way more stable, useful apps.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shows how much attention you've been paying.
Educational use, the RT has a full blown office suite, printing and usb storage, all useful and unavailable on an iPad. Well, office suites there are some but none even nearly match Microsoft office. Printing on RT is no different from a normal PC, no specialised printers required (my old school would have had to spend £40000 on printers if they were to replace with an iPad compatible model, the RT tablet a classmate bought in worked fine already). Usb storage, hah, you don't even get a usable file system let alone mass storage.
But we aren't using RT. We're talking windows 8, you know, that OS on your laptop or desktop. Intel atom, ivy bridge and haswell tablets as discussed here are all full blown x86 tablets and will run your full PC software which I would love to see you do on your iPad. That and many have active digitiser pens which are even better for nite taking than a capacitive screen which has no way to palm block (and I cannot contort my hand in such a way to write with a stylus on a capacitive screen without wearing gloves as a palm blocker).
So, cheaper and more useful for productivity which seems to be what was desired.
veeman said:
A fourth of the usability of a Windows RT tablet? Heck no. The iPad has way more stable, useful apps.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahaha more useful apps than every single "app" I use on my PC everyday? Like gimp and Photoshop? Sony Vegas? Real games like DmC and Call of Duty? Wow. What are you even doing in this part of the forum?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Censura_Umbra said:
Hahahaha more useful apps than every single "app" I use on my PC everyday? Like gimp and Photoshop? Sony Vegas? Real games like DmC and Call of Duty? Wow. What are you even doing in this part of the forum?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You aren't going to be able to run any of those apps on Windows RT tablet. And if you do go up to the x86 windows 8 tablet, unless you're willing to spend $1000+, you won't get a tablet that runs Photoshop or Call of Duty well.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------
SixSixSevenSeven said:
shows how much attention you've been paying.
Educational use, the RT has a full blown office suite, printing and usb storage, all useful and unavailable on an iPad. Well, office suites there are some but none even nearly match Microsoft office. Printing on RT is no different from a normal PC, no specialised printers required (my old school would have had to spend £40000 on printers if they were to replace with an iPad compatible model, the RT tablet a classmate bought in worked fine already). Usb storage, hah, you don't even get a usable file system let alone mass storage.
But we aren't using RT. We're talking windows 8, you know, that OS on your laptop or desktop. Intel atom, ivy bridge and haswell tablets as discussed here are all full blown x86 tablets and will run your full PC software which I would love to see you do on your iPad. That and many have active digitiser pens which are even better for nite taking than a capacitive screen which has no way to palm block (and I cannot contort my hand in such a way to write with a stylus on a capacitive screen without wearing gloves as a palm blocker).
So, cheaper and more useful for productivity which seems to be what was desired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Apple has a very good Office Suite for iPads
2. Most universities will have printers that are compatible with wireless printing.
3. You seem to be misinformed as you can connect USB mass storage devices to iPads. (Though it does require jailbreak)
4. You said it's cheaper but for a tablet to have all the features you listed, the price point is close to $1000 or more.
5. Many medical fields write their software specifically for iPads. I know the hospital my mom works at does.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
veeman said:
You aren't going to be able to run any of those apps on Windows RT tablet. And if you do go up to the x86 windows 8 tablet, unless you're willing to spend $1000+, you won't get a tablet that runs Photoshop or Call of Duty well.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------
1. Apple has a very good Office Suite for iPads
2. Most universities will have printers that are compatible with wireless printing.
3. You seem to be misinformed as you can connect USB mass storage devices to iPads. (Though it does require jailbreak)
4. You said it's cheaper but for a tablet to have all the features you listed, the price point is close to $1000 or more.
5. Many medical fields write their software specifically for iPads. I know the hospital my mom works at does.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did I say university anywhere? I'm not there until september. And besides, wireless printing does not mean an iPad will print to it, has to support some stupid apple protocol which although many do, most don't. And besides, in my old school the printing was not inherently wireless. The entire school was covered with a local network (a very large network which is also a rather convenient example of mixed topology within a network for computer science lessons), all printers were normal network printers. If you found a wireless access point then any windows device had no problem printing, if you had an ethernet connection then you could print fine from any normal computer too, a few of the printers in the school were even recognised by some android devices (although that was hit and miss), windows RT was able to print to them fine, iPads insisted that there was no printer present, even for the wireless one over in A11. There were only 2 iPad compatible printers in the building, 1 in the head masters office and one in my computer science room which my tutor bought himself.
The only office suites for iPads (pages is probably best and I presume the one you mean) are all far inferior to MS Office in terms of available functionality. Credit where credit is due, pages does work rather nicely as a basic office suite but leaves alot to be desired for things like .DOC support etc. Openoffice was able to open my 130 page coursework fine, MS Office was fine, Pages loaded a few pages, then gave up. The demo surface RT in john lewis, loaded it into MS office fine, no lag, nothing broken. Then on top of that, all RT tablets have office pre installed already, iPad its a seperate purchase. Same for windows 8 admittedly, but at least on windows 8 there are incredibly good free alternatives which are all fully fledged yet run fine on the atom processors of the CHEAPER tablets.
USB mass storage even on jailbroken iPads is buggy, its a native feature in Windows (for storage one can assume RT and 8 to be the same thing, as they do use the same feature set on this front). Windows supports more file systems, try using an NTFS drive on your iPad, or even on OSX for that matter, OSX has read only support, iPad apparently is hit and miss for that. You have to jailbreak which most users appear incompetent enough to not be able to do. Windows you get support for various forms of network storage too. Windows 8 you get FTP etc, with jailbreaks that is available on RT although not everyone wants to jailbreak (although those that need FTP are probably capable of jailbreaking). You get a normal file system presented on desktop, with apps in Start too, a proper file system, excellent, even android has that.
You will find that most establishments (including medical and educational, I know people from both backgrounds) who are migrating to iPads from existing windows solutions already have software for windows devices. Well, newsflash, a full windows 8 tablet will run these systems no porting required. But this is a hugely irrelevant point as we are not discussing the medical profession. In most cases these businesses are having to write their new shiny iPad apps from scratch, well if they are writing new software anyway they can just as easily write it for android or windows Start, so that further nullifies your point.
And no, a Asus vivotab smart costs less than an iPad. And does what needs to be done. Photoshop, devil may cry and call of duty were not on the criteria list, he said note taking and that he specifically is not gaming. Another newsflash, photoshop actually runs on the atom surprisingly well, sure your not going to be editing 500 megapixel images and applying 42 filters to it and having them done in 1 second, but quickly touching up the contrast on a 5mp phone photo is well within its abilities, more than that is but thats another null point as thats not a criteria so it doesnt matter.
I understand you want to defend your over-priced purchase but if your going to slate a windows tablet, use actual or relevant facts.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Did I say university anywhere? I'm not there until september. And besides, wireless printing does not mean an iPad will print to it, has to support some stupid apple protocol which although many do, most don't. And besides, in my old school the printing was not inherently wireless. The entire school was covered with a local network (a very large network which is also a rather convenient example of mixed topology within a network for computer science lessons), all printers were normal network printers. If you found a wireless access point then any windows device had no problem printing, if you had an ethernet connection then you could print fine from any normal computer too, a few of the printers in the school were even recognised by some android devices (although that was hit and miss), windows RT was able to print to them fine, iPads insisted that there was no printer present, even for the wireless one over in A11. There were only 2 iPad compatible printers in the building, 1 in the head masters office and one in my computer science room which my tutor bought himself.
The only office suites for iPads (pages is probably best and I presume the one you mean) are all far inferior to MS Office in terms of available functionality. Credit where credit is due, pages does work rather nicely as a basic office suite but leaves alot to be desired for things like .DOC support etc. Openoffice was able to open my 130 page coursework fine, MS Office was fine, Pages loaded a few pages, then gave up. The demo surface RT in john lewis, loaded it into MS office fine, no lag, nothing broken. Then on top of that, all RT tablets have office pre installed already, iPad its a seperate purchase. Same for windows 8 admittedly, but at least on windows 8 there are incredibly good free alternatives which are all fully fledged yet run fine on the atom processors of the CHEAPER tablets.
USB mass storage even on jailbroken iPads is buggy, its a native feature in Windows (for storage one can assume RT and 8 to be the same thing, as they do use the same feature set on this front). Windows supports more file systems, try using an NTFS drive on your iPad, or even on OSX for that matter, OSX has read only support, iPad apparently is hit and miss for that. You have to jailbreak which most users appear incompetent enough to not be able to do. Windows you get support for various forms of network storage too. Windows 8 you get FTP etc, with jailbreaks that is available on RT although not everyone wants to jailbreak (although those that need FTP are probably capable of jailbreaking). You get a normal file system presented on desktop, with apps in Start too, a proper file system, excellent, even android has that.
You will find that most establishments (including medical and educational, I know people from both backgrounds) who are migrating to iPads from existing windows solutions already have software for windows devices. Well, newsflash, a full windows 8 tablet will run these systems no porting required. But this is a hugely irrelevant point as we are not discussing the medical profession. In most cases these businesses are having to write their new shiny iPad apps from scratch, well if they are writing new software anyway they can just as easily write it for android or windows Start, so that further nullifies your point.
And no, a Asus vivotab smart costs less than an iPad. And does what needs to be done. Photoshop, devil may cry and call of duty were not on the criteria list, he said note taking and that he specifically is not gaming. Another newsflash, photoshop actually runs on the atom surprisingly well, sure your not going to be editing 500 megapixel images and applying 42 filters to it and having them done in 1 second, but quickly touching up the contrast on a 5mp phone photo is well within its abilities, more than that is but thats another null point as thats not a criteria so it doesnt matter.
I understand you want to defend your over-priced purchase but if your going to slate a windows tablet, use actual or relevant facts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually don't have an iPad. My mom, however does have an iPad that was given to her by her work.
The Asus vivopad does not have a digitizer (which you were saying is a big plus on Win8 tabs) And according to a review I just read, it lags once a few apps are open so I doubt a resource hungry application like Photoshop will even run on it. I believe the comment about gaming and Photoshop were in response to someone else.
But the problem is that the medical companies aren't moving to Android because of security issues, build quality, and reliability.
USB mass storage works fine on the iPad. My mom uses it to type her papers. (A lot of which are well over 130 pages) Also I was not talking about you when I mentioned university. I assumed that the person I originally asked to consider an iPad was moving on to higher education. There are printing apps that allow you to print to almost every printer as well as accessories for USB only printers.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
So going back to the original question and ignoring iPads...
I would say that you should wait for Haswell. It's literally right around the corner and you will get much better performance than Atom currently offers with the same, if not better, battery life. Also keep in mind that Intel just announced that Atom will be released with the newest architecture AFTER Haswell, meaning that the current generation is already very obsolete.
needspractice said:
I was wondering if anyone knew of the latest or best phone that has the greatest ROM rooting following at the moment greater than the Galaxy Nexus?
I have a Galaxy Nexus right now and its great but I am just bored with it. I would like to upgrade. The only problem is that I use [GNEX TOOLKIT V11.1.0] Drivers, Backup, Unlock, Root, Recovery, Flash + MORE [SPRINT] which is the best tool around.
I was wondering if there are tools like this or better for other newer phones that I may upgrade to or should I just stay with my Nexus for while?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm wondering: WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ASKING IN THIS THREAD.