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I posted this in another forum, thought I will re-post it here.
I had Ipad2 for 2 weeks and returned it. Once you use android tablet for a week, you can't go back to Ipad 2.
There are lot of reasons to choose android over ipad. Couple of examples:
=> Google maps kicks ass in android. IPad also has google maps, but its crippled - there are no reviews, no 3D view, no rotating using multi-touch, etc..
=> Widgets make a big difference in the 10" screen. You get the see emails, weather, calendar in the main screen, esp. with re-sizable widgets. Switch on the tablet, look at important stuff, move on with your life. In Ipad, you need to search for the three apps in the sea of icons, open one, close, look for next app and so on. There's a sea of difference in usability.
=> Android task bar has short cuts to change lot of settings like brightness and is available without the need to close the app that you are on. Say, you are reading a webpage that has a link to youtube. For reading you may like low brightness, but video with dark background requires more brightness. Steps to change screen brightness in IPad: you need to close the current app, search for settings icon in the sea of app icons, open settings, look for 'screen' settings, open the settings, look for brightness control, change brightness, double tap the hardware button to see the previous app, click it to open where you were. In honeycomb, you just click the task bar icon, change brightness, done. Now, that's usability.
=> Ipad is 4:3, pretty useless for viewing videos/movies. Watching 16:9 movies in Ipad is painful. Netflix works in Ipad (in the works for android, not out yet), but I honestly couldn't use it in Ipad because of the 4:3 screen. It's like watching movie on the old CRT screen.
=> IPad has no flash.
=> IPad has no back button. Every app implements 'back' functionality in their own way. You need to search for the 'back' button in every app. It gets frustrating very fast. Android has a beautiful back button that's available always and behaves exactly the same way in every app. It's magical. Really.
This is just the tip of iceberg. The list goes on and on.
If you are not big on games, then the several thousand apps in the app store means nothing. Because every useful app has a counterpart in honeycomb.
I know this is a android/gtab 10.1 forum so we'll be obviously biased, but what do you think of ipad?
I agree with everything you have said - not to mention the specs are under that of the 10.1, and if the rumors are true around the place there will be an updated model either at the time of the release of the 4G (unlikely), or within a few months after...
I am crossing my fingers and waiting for the rumors to be confirmed because if an updated model with wqxga (retina display competitor) 300+ dpi, plus microSD (if it's not released with the coming model), and possible quad core cpu (although it might just be the exynos 1.2Ghz), comes out within that sort of time frame then bugger me you are already beating the released 'possible' specs of the 2012/2013 release of iPad3!
lol - I am seriously excited about the 10.1. I have no doubt it is going to rock the crap out of the iPad2 for all the reasons you have stated and many more.
I have no concerns about possible build issues with the device as I have an Omnia 2 which is the same high grade plastics they are using in the 10.1 and i have dropped it many many many times - the phone has no issues, no cracking no warping etc it is just like the day i bought it (with some minor scratches of course).
Also people say customer service is crap for Samsung - well that depends on the country you are in and your expectations but let me tell you here in the philippines where customer service for the majority of companies is unheard of, I have had my screen replaced on the Omnia 2 when i had some white dots appear (probably due to me dropping it down some stairs on to concrete), no questions asked, within 3 to 5 days. and that was with a cooked rom that came up with a naughty boot message.
So yeah I don't blame you for trading in your iPad2
I started writing out this long response on all the positive points I see with the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Not because I think the iPad 2 is better. Just wanted to point out some of the iPad's strengths because I do think the device is pretty good.
But I like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more, got worried I might come off wrong and get riped apart like a rabbit before a pack of wolves. Haha.
So instead of the long post, I'll just give a brief short list of what I consider some pros for the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1... and I emphasis I still like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more and am waiting to buy one.
* Over 50,000 tablet optimized apps. Original iPad came out over a year and has been massively successful. Apple has a huge head start. I think the Android optimized apps still count in the low hundreds right now. And I often see lesser quality with the Android versions. It'll improve, but it's going to take time.
* iOS is more stable. 3.1 has helped, Android Market doesn't bug out on me as much. But there are still stability issues with Honeycomb. I'm a little fearful to install too many apps on my Android tablets because I've had some apps have a negative impact on the entire tablet's performance. Even Motorola's CEO commented recently on this being a concern. iOS on the other hand I have no fear installing everything I see (had over 120 apps on my iPad 1) without fear of performance issues.
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
Still. An exciting thing about Android is this is it's first tablet OS, I think things are moving fast for Android, and we get to be along for the ride. It's only going to keep getting better. And we are already blessed with amazing freedom, flexibility, and customization options. This is what I love about Android.
And I had seriously thought about getting an iPad 2. There are some apps I know I like much more on iOS than Android. But I feel like I'm just giving up way too much control for that. And I think the apps will get better here.
Ravynmagi said:
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
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Yeah, this is weird. Samsung has a bigger battery, but 2 1/2 hours less runtime on the Anandtech review.
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
Ravynmagi said:
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
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I'm not sure about the "more polishness", but its more stable than honeycomb. I think honeycomb is more polished than ios, but it's less stable right now due to the FCs.
About battery life - honeycomb tablets don't have bad battery life. 8-10 hours battery life is not bad. Apple does have couple of more hours of battery life and better standby battery life, but then we are now in the bragging rights territory. If you charge every day and not going on international trips, the extra hour of battery life is not going to matter to most of the tablet buyers.
Same goes for app store. You said you have 120 apps installed in your ipad, average person has 5 to 20. Honeycomb had every app *I* wanted. The quality of third party apps was similar between Ipad and Honeycomb. But YMMV. If a person needs a specialized app that's not available in HC, then they need to stick with Ipad. OTOH, google apps are vastly superior to the ones in Ipad. That was the deciding factor for me.
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
With that said, while there are not many Honeycomb-specific apps, at least most pre-3.0 apps play nice with HC (upscaling for screen size).
I had a brief time (about 3 hours) where I thought the iPad2 would be a better option for me than the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Luckily, I was talked off the ledge. The only thing that had me leaning towards the Pad is tablet-specific apps, but in the end most of my tablet usage is through the browser.
What sealed the deal in my getting the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was the deep integration of Google services. Until iOS5 comes out, there is definitely nothing on the iPad that holds a candles to Google's Android-account management system (not that I'm aware of, but I an ignorant on this subject).
mightymouse2045 said:
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
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umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
ralexand said:
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
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Click to collapse
It's true. iPhone apps run on iPad /w the same resolution (occupy a tiny area in the middle of the tablet) or 2x the resolution (occupy most of the tablet screen, but /w blurry text, etc.). Either way, I found it unusable.
OTOH, many, but not all, phone apps run well in HC. They scale nicely and you would hardly know that they are not designed for HC. Case in point, engadget app or many of the news apps.
smaskell said:
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
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lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
mightymouse2045 said:
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
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Click to collapse
Yes, of course. I couldn't agree more. Just thought it was a bit of an odd way of putting it haha.
I wan't to buy a Transformer, but I can't find a way to justify the six hundred bucks for the whole package, keyboard and all. What sets an android tablet apart from my Samsung Captivate? This isn't bashing on it at all, I just don't want to buy another android phone with a bigger screen sans the talking functionality. What I would reaaaaally love is to have an android tablet capable of running fully both windows and android. I would be waiting fairly far down the line to get this tablet as I'm currently saving up for a car. If I could get an alternate operating system to make the tablet into a laptop of sorts that would absolutely make the purchase, even though I'll be getting a second and infinitely better laptop for a graduation present the coming year.
tl;dr : I want a transformer but can't justify buying a phone with a bigger screen minus talking capabilities, convince me.
Looks like you don't really need convincing. If you did your research and it's not for you so be it...
If you have more specific questions to figure out if a good fit for your needs don't hesitate to ask!
Joel.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Running Windows 7 on it? Not possible.
What you're asking for, the ability to run dual operating systems on a tablet like this and at this price range is nigh impossible. The only one I know of is the Viewsonic tablet and that was incredibly poor in terms of implementation.
You might as well save your money and get a really good laptop if you're going to get another laptop anyway and demand dual booting.
Maybe you shouldn't try justifying a cost of $600.00 and instead, buy the tablet only at $400.00. This would be your lightweight mobile media consumption device but then again the "mobile" part is almost a misnomer due to the lack of 3g or 4g. Maybe ten years later when the U.S. is covered in public high speed wireless.
At least you can watch your movies, listen to your songs, use the GPS, lounge around on your couch and do other nifty things. This would fill a role you still wouldn't with a humongous Core i5 laptop or something. The point being, spend less on the tablet, spend more on the laptop later and you'll have two devices each with its own role.
Hmm. After doing half a second more research I realize that ubuntu is running on the transformer, That rather makes my day to be honest, and most likely made a sale. If they can get that running anywhere near 100% I'll have a tablet thats easily converted into an ultraportable. However I have concerns about word processing, doing basic things that can translate into using this laptop in relatively simple school situations.
How expandable is the storage?
Is Honeycomb all it's cracked up to be? It looks absolutely awesome to be honest, almost like a PC operating system on a small scale.
How's battery life with the keyboard dock? and does it vary from unit to unit? Serial numbers seem to be an issue.
If i were to buy one what serial number grouping would I want? (if I have a choice)
LIght leaks, how common are they, and is it viable to return for such a problem? Estimate of how many units per... say every 20 units would have light leak issues?
will edit with more ?'s as i can
its a matter of preference, either you really want to get a new gadget and play wit a touch screen or perfectly fine with a netbook/laptop...cant really go wrong either way especially 500 is a nice chunk of money
x3phyr said:
Hmm. After doing half a second more research I realize that ubuntu is running on the transformer, That rather makes my day to be honest, and most likely made a sale. If they can get that running anywhere near 100% I'll have a tablet thats easily converted into an ultraportable. However I have concerns about word processing, doing basic things that can translate into using this laptop in relatively simple school situations.
How expandable is the storage?
Is Honeycomb all it's cracked up to be? It looks absolutely awesome to be honest, almost like a PC operating system on a small scale.
How's battery life with the keyboard dock? and does it vary from unit to unit? Serial numbers seem to be an issue.
If i were to buy one what serial number grouping would I want? (if I have a choice)
LIght leaks, how common are they, and is it viable to return for such a problem? Estimate of how many units per... say every 20 units would have light leak issues?
will edit with more ?'s as i can
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's a big mistake trying to replace a laptop with a tablet. Even a tablet with a keyboard, it's still a 10 inch screen and a tiny keyboard. Word processing just won't be fun. Tablets won't replace laptops. Save that $150 and put it towards a laptop if you don't have one yet.
It supports micro SD cards up to 32GB. You can expand the storage infinitely if you don't mind swapping the micro SD cards.
I'm not a fan of Honeycomb. I think it has quite a few performance and stability issues. I've returned my Honeycomb tablets and am currently waiting on Android 4 coming this fall.
I've had 3 Transformers, all had some backlight bleeding. Though with them all, it was never bad enough that I'd really notice it if I wasn't in a dark room looking at a dark screen.
Transformer is a cool tablet for $400. I'd skip the keyboard.
But if you aren't in a big hurry, I think Android 4.0 this fall should be worth the wait. Honeycomb is Google's rush job to get a tablet OS out to compete against Apple. And it's not that pretty. This fall, besides a new Android, we should also have tablets with better processors. The Tegra 2 in the current tablets doesn't impress me much either.
However if do want something now, and I couldn't blame you for not wanting to wait 3 months... the Transformer is a really good deal.
x3phyr said:
I wan't to buy a Transformer, but I can't find a way to justify the six hundred bucks for the whole package, keyboard and all. What sets an android tablet apart from my Samsung Captivate? This isn't bashing on it at all, I just don't want to buy another android phone with a bigger screen sans the talking functionality. What I would reaaaaally love is to have an android tablet capable of running fully both windows and android. I would be waiting fairly far down the line to get this tablet as I'm currently saving up for a car. If I could get an alternate operating system to make the tablet into a laptop of sorts that would absolutely make the purchase, even though I'll be getting a second and infinitely better laptop for a graduation present the coming year.
tl;dr : I want a transformer but can't justify buying a phone with a bigger screen minus talking capabilities, convince me.
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Click to collapse
In short get a Windows 8 Tablet, if you're so against the TF which is amazing. Also you don't have to buy the keyboard dock right away so then it's only $400 dollars.
I do not and have not ever owned a computer. I do love Windows Phone. So tempted am I after looking at god knows how many YT videos of the CP of 8. So. Tempted. What tablet do you guys recommend? What laptop? This is my first computer and I, quite frankly, expect it to last for a good while.
I know it's buggy. I know it's a beta. But damn does it look sexy.
If you want to get a tablet that can run Windows 8, is well-built, and modern-looking, and you want it before the proper Windows 8 tablets come out in the second half of the year... then the Samsung Series 7 Slate would be my recommendation.
Lumenii said:
If you want to get a tablet that can run Windows 8, is well-built, and modern-looking, and you want it before the proper Windows 8 tablets come out in the second half of the year... then the Samsung Series 7 Slate would be my recommendation.
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Quite a hefty price tag on that. Every YT review mentions that the viewing angles are subpar. Your assessment as well? Otherwise, sexy specs, indeed. Added to the list, thanks.
Wait for windows 8 to launch and get a quality laptop with a touch screen. They will be flooding the market then and $750 will probably be enough for decent model. You may also want to avoid a tablet for windows 8 since software support for the ARM architecture is going to take a little time. A laptop with touch screen will allow you to fully enjoy the touch features metro brings while also being able to run everyday software and not just the simple metro apps.
I am running Windows 8 CP on a JooJoo (Intel Atom N270 and Nvidia ION), and it's running well. But I am jealous when I watch other people with Samsung Series 7 Slate running same tasks 3-4 times faster. So I would say that Samsung Slate deserves its money if you want power. But if you are looking for something affordable take a look at Winpad P100 with dual-core N570 and Hi-Definition 1366*768 screen. It will cost you around 450$. From what I read it is quite good compared to other Tablet PCs.
Cheers!
I owned a Samsung Slate for a week and I wouldn't recommend it.
cristidotro said:
I am running Windows 8 CP on a JooJoo (Intel Atom N270 and Nvidia ION), and it's running well. But I am jealous when I watch other people with Samsung Series 7 Slate running same tasks 3-4 times faster. So I would say that Samsung Slate deserves its money if you want power. But if you are looking for something affordable take a look at Winpad P100 with dual-core N570 and Hi-Definition 1366*768 screen. It will cost you around 450$. From what I read it is quite good compared to other Tablet PCs.
Cheers!
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Click to collapse
This thing looks pretty good and when I googled it I found a website that it selling it for $349 (single core) and add $50 for the Dual Core so its only $400 bucks...
Acer Iconia Tab W500
I think one of the challenges you are going to run into right now is that no hardware manufacturer is really making a true Win8-optimized Laptop. Buying anything at the moment is kind of a crap-shoot as a result.
If you are truly looking owning something that needs to last a few years you may be better waiting until the product goes gold and Dell, HP, Lenovo (and even Nokia if rumors are to be believed) begin coming out with product that will take advantage of the touch-enabled interface. I know I'm not making any expensive personal decisions until then as I expect to see a lot of interesting stuff at that point.
For testing purposes I've been using an Acer Iconia Tab W500 since the DP release that was boosted with an 80GB SSD. Total cost was about $600.00 (Tablet plus SSD bought off eBay) and as a Tablet PC for testing it is a great deal for the money.
Wait until fully win8 compliant hardware available
To be able to use a Win8 tablet like any of the other modern tablets, it needs to be able to allow Metro apps (like mail, feeds, weather) to update themselves while the device is asleep.
To do this, the hardware has to support the Connected Standby (CS) state.
The CS presenter at the BUILD conference stated that the tablet handed out there (same as Samsung Slate XE700T) did NOT support CS.
That is why I stopped being interested in the Slate.
I would suggest waiting until devices running the full finished Win8 come out as they would most likely support all the designed-in Win8 functionality.
To those who think that a laptop with touch will do, I say that the Samsung Slate has shown that a dual core i5 64bit tablet is easily capable of replacing almost all current laptops, but in a more flexible and convenient format. I predict that tablets with keyboards will replace laptops almost completely (come the next replacement opportunity).
my recomendation...
If you absolutely can't wait, I have an Acer Iconia Tab W500.
10.1 Inches, AMD Fusion C-60 (yes, not C-50) dual core @1.0Ghz with Radeon HD6290 graphics, 2Gb of memory and a 32 Gb SSD for storage.
I got it with the Keyboard dock which ads a Lan and makes it an awesome choice.
Better by far than any atom out there.
MasterTB said:
If you absolutely can't wait, I have an Acer Iconia Tab W500.
10.1 Inches, AMD Fusion C-60 (yes, not C-50) dual core @1.0Ghz with Radeon HD6290 graphics, 2Gb of memory and a 32 Gb SSD for storage.
I got it with the Keyboard dock which ads a Lan and makes it an awesome choice.
Better by far than any atom out there.
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I second this. The W500 is so awesome. I have the version with C-50 and even this one does most games and programmes amazingly fast!
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I got the Samsung Slate. My reasoning is on my blog at gadgets dot itwriting dot com - I have too few posts here to give the link unfortunately. Search for Samsung.
Frankly, the device is not that well designed. The keyboard (optional extra) is particularly annoying, because it has no real on/off button. Very hard to pack a keyboard in such a way that keys do not get pressed accidentally. Consequently, if you pack keyboard + slate in your bag, with the slate on sleep, the keyboard wakes it up and bad things happen. Ended up removing batteries from keyboard when not in use, and they rattle around at the bottom of the bag.
Of course you don't need to get the keyboard; and with Windows 8 it works better than with 7 although I have not got the rotation sensor working yet. The Windows button doesn't work quite right, especially after it has been on for a while, but no great loss. Performance is great, and I don't regret the purchase given that I really need to use Windows 8 NOW.
If you can hold off though, I would definitely wait for devices that are designed for Windows 8.
Tim
^^ the Series 7 Slate keyboard has an off switch. Its the same button you click to put it in pairing mode.
dtboos said:
^^ the Series 7 Slate keyboard has an off switch. Its the same button you click to put it in pairing mode.
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I have found it works OK as an "on" switch but not as an "off" switch!
Tim
Hardware wise what's coming in the next few months?
bmstrong said:
Hardware wise what's coming in the next few months?
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Probably nothing. You won't see new devices until Win8 is ready to be released.
dtboos said:
Probably nothing. You won't see new devices until Win8 is ready to be released.
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Click to collapse
Well, nuts. I convinced my brother to drop it onto his laptop. Absolutely fantastic for me, as a long time Windows user he was horrified. A lot, I think comes down to a fear of change and the misconception that you can't really do anything with the MetroTop. As a WP lover I couldn't be happier and wished they didn't even include the desktop side.
I'll look around at a couple suggestions, perhaps with the fever surrounding the iPad 3 I can snatch something cheap.
I have been a pen/tablet enthusiastic for many years and have owned (and still own) loads of tablet over the years. I currently own and use 4 window based pen-tablets (2 XP, 1 Vista, and 1 Window 7), 2 iPads, 2 iPod touch, Apple Macbook Pro (2009), Apple Macbook Air 13" (2012), Samsung Galaxy Note 5.3, and then the latest Galaxy Note 10.1. I also used to own loads of Window powered PDAs, palm, casio, etc.
As you can see for the list above, I have been looking for the perfect computing experience, especially the pen/tablet experience. I bought the Note 10.1 because of my Note 5.3. IMHO, the Note 10.1 is a decent pen-tablet, and it had made vast improvement over the Ntoe 5.3 in terms of hardware. However, it is the software where I feel is limiting the Note 10.1 from being a perfect pen-tablet machine.
People have already disregard the window based PC as being a serious tablet and they are rightfully so. The XP, Vista, and Window 7 while can be used to run as a tablet, have never been designed for tablet. So my experience with them have always been frustrating. HOWEVER, it was a pleasant surprise to me when I loaded the release preview of Window 8 few weeks ago onto 3 of my old Window tablets.
I have a Samsung Q1UP (6 year old, XP, w/resistive pen, 2GB ram, 64GB SSD), a HP 2710P (4 years old, w/Wavcom pen, 1GB ram, 80GB HDD), an ACER W500 (2 year old, w/touch pen, 2GB ram, 32GB SDD), and when loaded with the Window 8, all 3 machines even though are old have given me a VERY good pen/tablet experience. All 3 tablets now run much faster and very very smooth. The surprise comes when all these tablets are now running more like an Andriod/IOS instead of a typical window os. You can smoothly scroll, zoom, etc just like an iPad or Galaxy Note. The battery life seems to have improved in all these machines, and the time from sleep to logon screen is about 2-3 seconds. Loading programs used to take forever under the old OS, but now I can load excel, word, one-note, etc from cold in about 2 seconds.
Now to the most important part, the pen use with Window 8. The handwriting recognition is much better and faster than the Note 10.1 (for all 3 devices with the resistive pen, wavcom pen, and touch pen). The S-Note in the Note 10.1 is just a tiny program, but the One-Note is a full blown application with seamless integration with Office and Sky Drive, etc.
With the new tablets coming designed specifically with Window 8 in mind, I think Microsoft has risen the par on tablet competition. As the upcoming Samsung Series 5 hybrid tablet, for example, is coming with a $650 based price, 11 hrs battery life (with the optional keyboard), 750g weight, and can run all window software. Even though I have not seen, touch or used one of these new machines, the fact that Window 8 has turned my 6 years old tablet into a brand new machine is exciting for me.
Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep. I bought it because I can carry it all day and not worry about battery, and I hardly need to run any PC applications these days when I am out. More importantly if I plan to use the PC all day, I probably need to bring the charger with me which will bring the weight up to 1kg or more. Since I carry my camera with me all day, the Note 10.1 is a better choice for me.
However, if you are looking into serious note taking and also need to run pc applications, I think the Window 8 tablets may be a good alternative. We will all know if this is true when the machines are officially announced in late Oct.
PS: I am in absolutely no way affiliated with any of the companies mentioned about, I am just giving my take on using all these devices over the years.
Good post.
What's your take on the new slate 5 vs surface pro?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
mitchellvii said:
Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
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Just to better understand your argument, are you including Windows 8 RT in your Windows 8 grouping? Because, that's the version that you want to use when comparing apples to apples (e.g., Android/Apple tablets to Windows 8 tablets), not the X86 Intel versions as you did in your post. For instance, the price point argument, as well as the Ford Focus vs. 911 analogy, will not be applicable, because the products are in different categories/segments (I can't imagine someone cross-shopping a Focus and a 911).
My point is that pound for pound, at least with the Samsung units, you will pay signficantly more for the same level of tablet, even the RT. As a matter of fact the W8 RT offering from Samsung will be slightly worse than the SGN10.1 since the screen is larger with roughly the same resolution. If you dont like the SGN10.1 screen youll hate the W8 RT screen.
For me at least, the primary benefit of Windows over Android is Office programs like Access. Word and Excel are emulated on Android just fine. I dont believe W8 RT will even run Access and if it does I believe the screen is too small to use it effectively with forms designed for a larger screen.
Again, what is the benefit to the consumer of using touch with Office? There is none. So you are trading in a big screen that you do need for touch that you dont.
Tablets are not laptop replacements and if you price them like one you are going to have a problem. They need to be priced like an accessory. Right now at least, Android does that better at the SGN10.1 price. Even $500 is close to being too high.
My conclusion is that W8 Tablets will be too much for a tablet and do too little to replace a laptop. Just my opinion. It may sell gangbusters but I dont think so. We'll have to wait and see. Nevertheless, its presence in the marketpalce will make Android products better
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
mitchellvii said:
Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
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WOW!! I wished someone had warned me about troll living here and that no comments other than good Note 10.1 comments are allowed in this forum. This will be my last post in the forum, leaving you alone to harass other people.
The observation in my original post is based on actual experience. Yours seemed to be based on pure speculations and imaginations. I truly doubt you have similar experience before making your comments. I welcome you to try them first and proof me wrong, or stop making illogical fallacy.
1. I read many of the owners who bought the Note 10.1 because of the S-Pen. Some owners even suggested potential buyers to look elsewhere if they are purely looking for an Android tablet as there are better alternatives out there. At present, only the Note 10.1 and Window tablets offer pens experience, so I don’t understand why you think it is an apple to orange comparison.
2. When I composed the list of devices I own, I was hoping to give some background on the wide variety of devices/OS I have used, so that I can make my points. But you turned it into a show-off list.
3. You mentioned “…20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen”, then you went to buy the Note 10.1 and other touch devices, interesting!
4. The ACER W500 Win 7 tablet I bought 2 years ago brand new was $550 then (the Note 10.1 is about the same price range). The hardware was mediocre at the time, and it sucked with Win 7. I was amused how Window 8 has turned it into a very respectable tablet, with very fast and accurate hand writing recognition, and good note experience with One-Note, then further suggested today’s hardware could only do better. You turned it into a Ford and Porsche comparison. I bet you had never owned a Porsche before, so it is a mood point arguing with you here.
5. You must be the CFO of Samsung as you knew how much profit they are making on the SGN10.1, and can easily drop the price by another $50. BTW, Samsung also makes the upcoming Window 8 tablet with MSRP of $649 and respectable hardware (S-PEN, 11.6” , 1366 x 768, 2GB Ram, 9 hrs battery life, 750g, and 64GB SSD http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/29/samsung-announces-series-5-slate-series-7-slate/). Based on your insider knowledge, Samsung could also easily drop the price by another $50 for the Window tablet. Then there are other tablets makers that produce cheaper devices.
6. I had never once suggested Window 8 will take over Android or even compete with it, so I think you are making your comments based on illusion.
Best wishes!
Lol, i guess your definition of "troll"is anyone who disagrees with you? You come to the SGN10.1 Forum announcing that our tablet is "just ok" while the W8 tablets will be the Second Coming and you don't expect any pushback?
I made the argument that the W8 tablets will have a difficult time finding their place in a competitive market. Many pundits online agree with me. Too expensive for a tablet, too small for a laptop. You imply that I said you were bragging about all your tablets. I simply said that you were concerned more about performance than price. How did you get from that that i said you were bragging?
As far as knowing the Samsung can cut the price of the SGN10.1 and still make money that is a well established fact. Google is your friend.
Oh well, if you must leave I am sorry. Im sure there is someone in here that will miss you praising the W8 tablets and putting down the SGN10.1.
P.S. Actually I am a BMW man myself. The center console on Porsche is too wide and presses against my shin because I am tall. The Ford/Porsche comparison was an attempt to compare a tool which can do the job at a lower cost vs one that offers good things but perhaps things that cost conscious people dont need.
Touch with Office is a perfect example of this. Why does anyone need touch with Office? Id rather have a 15 inch screen.
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---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------
For those who feel, as the OP does, that I am pulling my concerns about W8 Tablets from my backside, here is a quote from PCWorld Magazine:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent..._8_tablets_have_what_it_takes_to_succeed.html
There are a number of issues that could make Windows 8 tablets dead on arrival, or at least a very tough sell. Two of the biggest will be price, and confusion over differences between Windows on ARM (WOA) tablets, and x86/x64 architecture tablets.
ARM-based devices will probably be better tablets than their x86/x64 counterparts. WOA tablets will most likely be lighter, cooler, have longer battery life, and--most importantly--be cheaper. ARM-based tablets will be more on par with the competing tablets already in the market like the iPad, Motorola Xoom, Samsung Galaxy Tab, and others.
That all sounds great, but WOA tablets also come with significant handicaps that nullify most of what makes a Windows 8 tablet appealing. For example, WOA tablets can’t run traditional Windows software--they require apps written for the Metro UI.
Wes Miller from GetWired.com and Directions on Microsoft poses the question, “For enterprises who will have to rewrite their (non-Web) applications in Metro for WOA anyway, the question comes up, "why wouldn't I rewrite it for iOS instead?", since there is no way to run non-Microsoft Win32 apps on WOA.”
The bigger issue for WOA tablets is that Microsoft has revealed they are intended for “unmanaged environments”. What that translates to is that WOA tablets will not be able to connect to Windows domains and be managed like x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets, and other Windows systems.
Amobi says that there are arguments to be made for and against WOA tablets, and it’s still too early for a final verdict. But, he stresses, “If they cant join domains--game over.”
No worries. We still have x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets to fall back on, right? True, but there are some caveats.
An x86/x64 tablet is just squeezing a notebook or desktop into a touchscreen, flat-panel form factor. That has advantages, but we also know that running Windows takes a fair amount of processing horsepower and memory. While it may be possible to run Windows 8 with less RAM, 4GB is probably the minimum for acceptable performance. That is four times what most ARM tablets use.
When you build a tablet on x86/x64 architecture, and try to beef up the RAM to deliver adequate performance, the tablet starts to face other issues. As previously mentioned, users want tablets that are thin, light, and have endurance to last all day on a single charge. It is unlikely that x86/x64 tablets can truly compete with ARM-based rivals in these areas.
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As I have stated, W8 Tablets will be stuck in the middle. RT too underpowered to run true Windows software and Pro too small to run true Windows software properly.
DOA.
Hopefully these facts have taken some of the emotion out of this argument.
What the heck OP, please respond to my original question!
New slate 5 vs surface pro. Based on your experience, should we (consumers) wait for the SP release before purchasing.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
mitchellvii, you are assuming too much and treating your "opinion" as the gospel truth.
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Just like the OP, I'm not putting down the Note 10.1; I'm actually waiting for the UPS truck to bring a 32GB version today. However, you don't have to blindly defend it when an alternative view is presented. Just embrace the fact that for every device with additional features (e.g., being able to run OneNote and a full OS on a tablet), there's a segment out there. If you are outside of that segment or find some of those features not very useful for your way of using a tablet, it's perfectly fine, as long as you realize the advantages and disadvantages of each device with an open mind.
tenderidol said:
mitchellvii, you are assuming too much and treating your "opinion" as the gospel truth.
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Just like the OP, I'm not putting down the Note 10.1; I'm actually waiting for the UPS truck to bring a 32GB version today. However, you don't have to blindly defend it when an alternative view is presented. Just embrace the fact that for every device with additional features (e.g., being able to run OneNote and a full OS on a tablet), there's a segment out there. If you are outside of that segment or find some of those features not very useful for your way of using a tablet, it's perfectly fine, as long as you realize the advantages and disadvantages of each device with an open mind.
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The OP said:
"Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep."
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Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
mitchellvii said:
The OP said:
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, "just making up stuff" you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
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Click to collapse
You really must love the Note 10.1 like your significant other. Calling it a "decent machine" is an insult? As I mentioned above, keep an open mind, and you'll be able to see the strengths and the weaknesses of each device.
mitchellvii said:
The OP said:
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
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Yes you are. You posted an article filled with opinions from Mar and think that these are facts. They are not.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
mitchellvii said:
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
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So, stating someone else's opinion is a fact, now? Got it! Let me find that Verge review and link it here as the "fact" about Note 10.1.
Again... I purchased the damn thing and will be using it to its full potential. However, unlike you, I'll keep an open mind and try the Samsung Smart PC offerings (specifically the Series 5). If it performs well, it'll replace the Note 10.1 (or I may keep both, since they serve different functions); if not, I'll continue to use it happily.
tenderidol said:
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Three things are missing from this conversation to make it worthwhile.
1) Everyone uses their tablets differently. A gamer, heavy productivity user, graphic artist, reader, and someone who uses it primarily for consumption all have different needs. And someone's personal weighting of those things determine which product is "best" for them. I could easily see someone needing OneNote (and MS Office in general) jumping on W8 just for that. Same thing for a graphic artist who wants access to desktop versions of tools they typically use. How many of them there are and how well W8 tablets do more pedestrian things will determine their success, not our discussion.
2) We're comparing something that doesn't exist to something that does. Unless you all intend to go out and buy an Acer W500 with 4 hours of battery life and that weighs two pounds this is at best a theoretical conversation until actual W8 tablets are in people's hands and can be evaluated in real-world use. And don't forget the Pro tablets come with all the stuff we love about Windows: 1) driver incompatibilities, 2) control panel, and 3) multiple menus, clicks, and "enters," to launch or access something. The UI formally known as Metro doesn't hide the fact that there's a huge resource intensive hulk of an OS to be tamed running in the background. How many general-use iPad candidates do you think will find that acceptable? And they’re MS’s bogie, not the 20% of the tablet market that’s using Android.
3) Until the complete feature set is known for both RT and Pro tablets and what apps will be available to them initially you can't have a price-value conversation. I highly doubt entry-level consumer targeted RT tablets will do some of things being discussed. Similarly if a loaded Pro tablet is $1K that changes the conversation when comparing it to a $500 Android tablet.
I'll check back in with you guys once the tablets are in people's hands for a while and then we can have a legitimate conversation of the pros and cons of each.
BTW, here's an excerpt of a review of the HP TouchPad when it was first released. Just because a monolithic company launches something its success isn't guaranteed. It’s too early to say whether W8 tablets will be a Zune or an XBox 360 for MS and no one here can do anything but proffer an opinion as to which way it will go.
"You would almost think that webOS had been designed for tablets from the very beginning. It feels more native to tablets than any other software on any other tablet, despite being an almost exact translation of the phone interface (minus almost all of the bezel gestures). Multitasking on anything else feels almost stupid compared to Cards. An open app is a card. You can stack them, sort them, re-arrange them, and when you're done, close them. Juggling a bunch makes you feel like you're getting stuff done. Palm's big tablet adaptation, panes, is a straight riff on the iPad Twitter UI. So in email and other complex apps, you slide layers—inboxes, message lists, actual messages—back and forth to move between them. Notifications, which pop down from the top of the scree, let you flip through the pile, one at a time, without ever opening the app-handy if you get IMs from five different people. They're great ideas."
BarryH_GEG said:
Three things are missing from this conversation to make it worthwhile.
1) Everyone uses their tablets differently. A gamer, heavy productivity user, graphic artist, reader, and someone who uses it primarily for consumption all have different needs. And someone's personal weighting of those things determine which product is "best" for them. I could easily see someone needing OneNote (and MS Office in general) jumping on W8 just for that. Same thing for a graphic artist who wants access to desktop versions of tools they typically use. How many of them there are and how well W8 tablets do more pedestrian things will determine their success, not our discussion.
2) We're comparing something that doesn't exist to something that does. Unless you all intend to go out and buy an Acer W500 with 4 hours of battery life and that weighs two pounds this is at best a theoretical conversation until actual W8 tablets are in people's hands and can be evaluated in real-world use. And don't forget the Pro tablets come with all the stuff we love about Windows: 1) driver incompatibilities, 2) control panel, and 3) multiple menus, clicks, and "enters," to launch or access something. The UI formally known as Metro doesn't hide the fact that there's a huge resource intensive hulk of an OS to be tamed running in the background. How many general-use iPad candidates do you think will find that acceptable? And they’re MS’s bogie, not the 20% of the tablet market that’s using Android.
3) Until the complete feature set is known for both RT and Pro tablets and what apps will be available to them initially you can't have a price-value conversation. I highly doubt entry-level consumer targeted RT tablets will do some of things being discussed. Similarly if a loaded Pro tablet is $1K that changes the conversation when comparing it to a $500 Android tablet.
I'll check back in with you guys once the tablets are in people's hands for a while and then we can have a legitimate conversation of the pros and cons of each.
BTW, here's an excerpt of a review of the HP TouchPad when it was first released. Just because a monolithic company launches something its success isn't guaranteed. It’s too early to say whether W8 tablets will be a Zune or an XBox 360 for MS and no one here can do anything but proffer an opinion as to which way it will go.
"You would almost think that webOS had been designed for tablets from the very beginning. It feels more native to tablets than any other software on any other tablet, despite being an almost exact translation of the phone interface (minus almost all of the bezel gestures). Multitasking on anything else feels almost stupid compared to Cards. An open app is a card. You can stack them, sort them, re-arrange them, and when you're done, close them. Juggling a bunch makes you feel like you're getting stuff done. Palm's big tablet adaptation, panes, is a straight riff on the iPad Twitter UI. So in email and other complex apps, you slide layers—inboxes, message lists, actual messages—back and forth to move between them. Notifications, which pop down from the top of the scree, let you flip through the pile, one at a time, without ever opening the app-handy if you get IMs from five different people. They're great ideas."
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With the exception of one person, we are all on the same page here. Below is an excerpt from the OP. To me, it overlaps very well with your points and my argument. Somehow, this was turned into "How dare you put down Note10.1? Windows 8 tablets are DOA!" bickery.
With the new tablets coming designed specifically with Window 8 in mind, I think Microsoft has risen the par on tablet competition. As the upcoming Samsung Series 5 hybrid tablet, for example, is coming with a $650 based price, 11 hrs battery life (with the optional keyboard), 750g weight, and can run all window software. Even though I have not seen, touch or used one of these new machines, the fact that Window 8 has turned my 6 years old tablet into a brand new machine is exciting for me.
Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep. I bought it because I can carry it all day and not worry about battery, and I hardly need to run any PC applications these days when I am out. More importantly if I plan to use the PC all day, I probably need to bring the charger with me which will bring the weight up to 1kg or more. Since I carry my camera with me all day, the Note 10.1 is a better choice for me.
However, if you are looking into serious note taking and also need to run pc applications, I think the Window 8 tablets may be a good alternative. We will all know if this is true when the machines are officially announced in late Oct.
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[email protected] said:
WOW!! I wished someone had warned me about troll living here and that no comments other than good Note 10.1 comments are allowed in this forum. This will be my last post in the forum, leaving you alone to harass other people.
Best wishes!
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[email protected], welcome. Sorry about the resident W8 Hater. I recommend to just ignore him.
Thank you for sharing your experience with your Note(s) and your tablets with Windows 8! My experience with my Note 10.1 is pretty much the same as yours. I am really looking forward to trying out a Surface Pro or one of the other new W8 tablets that are coming out. Your post has just seriously reinforced that!
When you use One Note on a tablet, does it give you inking features for drawing pictures and hand writing notes similar to what S-Note does? I have W8 and One Note, but no Ink-enabled device to put them on to play with it myself.
tenderidol said:
With the exception of one person, we are all on the same page here.
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Who are "we?" I have no idea what everyone here's needs are. I also have no idea what the "cons" are going to be that will without doubt go along with the rosy PR blurb “pros” being thrown out. I'm in marketing so perhaps I'm less susceptible to spin than some of you guys because I create it. MS lost their way and have a bunch of simultaneous "Hail Mary's" launching concurrently (Cloud, W8 the OS, and W8 the tablet). I wish them nothing but the best. But I'd like to see some traction gained before drinking their Kool-Aid and declaring their success. And that will take months to realize. I'm a heavy productivity user and use OneNote, MS Office, and SharePoint so therefore a candidate for a W8 tablet. Only I'm not as eager to throw out my fairly evolved Android device to experience V1 of the h/w and s/w of an alternative. Months from now I may own a W8 tablet. Based on my personal needs and usage there's absolutely no rush. You guys can go first and if the world's not flat I'll follow you.
BarryH_GEG said:
Who are "we?" I have no idea what everyone here's needs are. I also have no idea what the "cons" are going to be that will without doubt go along with the rosy PR blurb “pros” being thrown out. I'm in marketing so perhaps I'm less susceptible to spin than some of you guys because I create it. MS lost their way and have a bunch of simultaneous "Hail Mary's" launching concurrently (Cloud, W8 the OS, and W8 the tablet). I wish them nothing but the best. But I'd like to see some traction gained before drinking their Kool-Aid and declaring their success. And that will take months to realize. I'm a heavy productivity user and use OneNote, MS Office, and SharePoint so therefore a candidate for a W8 tablet. Only I'm not as eager to throw out my fairly evolved Android device to experience V1 of the h/w and s/w of an alternative. Months from now I may own a W8 tablet. Based on my personal needs and usage there's absolutely no rush. You guys can go first and if the world's not flat I'll follow you.
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"We" as in "people who currently own the Note 10.1 and wanted to try and see the potential of upcoming Windows 8 tablets without forming any assumptions based on others' opinions". As you can see, nobody is saying that this will be a huge success, it's going to be "superior" or will definitely trump other tablets, etc. Let's see if the potential of the device is met by the hardware and the software first. As I stated, I have my reservations for the Atom-based CPU and 2 GB RAM in the Series 5. If it can't handle the load, I won't be moving over to the Series 7, because it's too heavy and pricey for me. I thought this was the original discussion.
tenderidol said:
see the potential
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Promise and potential are very different from practice and reality. And sometimes when they collide it isn’t pretty. Since this entire conversation is theoretical there can never be a decisive conclusion. I really don't have an opinion and won't until I can personally play with a W8 tablet and see how well it does the things I need it to do. Even then, my conclusion will only apply to me and my individual needs.
Think about this. Here's the iPad demographic.
iPad ownership is skewed toward young customers, with 27% of owners between 25 and 34. The average iPad owner is affluent, with a median income of $85,000 a year. Most importantly, they are much more likely to be buying things.
Don't you think that audience is using MS Office and OneNote professionally to earn the higher median income they do? Apple's sold 100MM iPads with no native access to MS Office. Taking a broader view I don't think it's the "killer app" many of you believe it will be. Especially if it comes at the price of a less refined h/w and s/w experience. There's also a certain cache that comes from owning an iPad. Android tablet owners tend to be classified as rugged individualists and technology enthusiasts. What will W8 tablet owners be? People that need access to MS apps? Pretty low on the "cool" scale, no? There’s more to a product’s success than just functionality.
Just food for thought while we're discussing the potential mass-market (in other words, not us) success of W8 tablets.
BarryH_GEG said:
Just food for thought while we're discussing the potential mass-market (in other words, not us) success of W8 tablets.
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Which we weren't until some folks hijacked the thread and went totally OT from the OP...
hello all,
my university gives a 400 pounds credit to buy from studentstore.uk i was planning to get a windows 8 tab but they dont stock sony,asus or dell products .i was planning to get a baytrail tablet like dell venue pro 11.with a maximum budget of 600 pounds(400+200).
so my only option is to get an acer w700 with i3,4gb ram 64 gb memory available for 570 pounds.or wait till samsung,lenovo and acer brings in 10-11 inch baytrail tablet.
so do you think its a good idea to get w700 or just wait till others comes with baytrail tablets(any idea when on earth they will launch it ).?
At this late date, what you see (in the MS store) are what'll be available for this Q4.
My suggestion is to ignore the one-device-fits-all PR hype and get two devices: a 12"-13" laptop for productivity, and a separate tablet for portable use. The meat-and-potato work box comes first, obviously. For my college days, I used a 12" IBM Thinkpad X series, which I lugged everywhere. It wasn't light, but it was built like a tank. The bottom line for me wasn't about best speed or battery life, but good old reliability.
rkoforever90 said:
hello all,
my university gives a 400 pounds credit to buy from studentstore.uk i was planning to get a windows 8 tab but they dont stock sony,asus or dell products .i was planning to get a baytrail tablet like dell venue pro 11.with a maximum budget of 600 pounds(400+200).
so my only option is to get an acer w700 with i3,4gb ram 64 gb memory available for 570 pounds.or wait till samsung,lenovo and acer brings in 10-11 inch baytrail tablet.
so do you think its a good idea to get w700 or just wait till others comes with baytrail tablets(any idea when on earth they will launch it ).?
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Your choice definitely depends on what you plan to do with it. Do you want something that will serve as a PC as well as a tablet, or just a portable typing device, or just for entertainment? I've also heard that those who do computer science/programming degrees, you'll want something a lot more powerful. However, for humanities subjects, i'm sure an i3 will be just fine.
If you ask me, you should never get anything Acer made.
SammiSaysHello said:
Your choice definitely depends on what you plan to do with it. Do you want something that will serve as a PC as well as a tablet, or just a portable typing device, or just for entertainment? I've also heard that those who do computer science/programming degrees, you'll want something a lot more powerful. However, for humanities subjects, i'm sure an i3 will be just fine.
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i dont want an ultra book or laptop since i already have a laptop.i want a windows 8 tablet which is thin light and with good battery backup.
Deusdies said:
If you ask me, you should never get anything Acer made.
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i had acer desktop (in 2005) then an acer laptop (bought in 2009) and then another one in 2011(which iam still using) my brother has an acer s3 ultrabook.
i never had any problem with acer till now, also one of my relative works at acer service centre.
rkoforever90 said:
i had acer desktop (in 2005) then an acer laptop (bought in 2009) and then another one in 2011(which iam still using) my brother has an acer s3 ultrabook.
i never had any problem with acer till now, also one of my relative works at acer service centre.
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My experience with the acer repair service isn't great, just got my w700 back and it has gained a load of scratches (came back quite dirty as well) and the rubber section on the back which they clearly removed to open it up hasn't been stuck down properly and now comes away from the case.
Also OP you should be aware that Acer support in general is awful, they delete posts on the forums they don't like (mainly people complaining about the terrible support) and there is a throttling issue with the i5 version which they refuse to fix, you should check out the 52 page thread on their forums which has been going on for over a year.
twisted89 said:
My experience with the acer repair service isn't great, just got my w700 back and it has gained a load of scratches (came back quite dirty as well) and the rubber section on the back which they clearly removed to open it up hasn't been stuck down properly and now comes away from the case.
Also OP you should be aware that Acer support in general is awful, they delete posts on the forums they don't like (mainly people complaining about the terrible support) and there is a throttling issue with the i5 version which they refuse to fix, you should check out the 52 page thread on their forums which has been going on for over a year.
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the problem is i dont have an option to purchase other than student store u.k and they dont have much options either.
you can have a look and suggest if anything better is there for the price.
http://www.studentstore.co.uk/getech/all-manufacturers/Tablets/for-students.aspx
What subject are you studying at university/what is the tablet required for?
SixSixSevenSeven said:
What subject are you studying at university/what is the tablet required for?
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iam doing mechanical engineering.mostly i need it for entertainment purpose, taking notes , power point presentations etc. but i have a laptop also .
rkoforever90 said:
iam doing mechanical engineering.mostly i need it for entertainment purpose, taking notes , power point presentations etc. but i have a laptop also .
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That should be fine. You don't need something very powerful for that. Actually, I only had an Android tablet (Xperia Tablet S) to do that and it handled those kind of tasks fine for me.
PowerPoint you can install on the device anyway so your fine on that front (uni may offer it for free too). Entertainment is up to you. Note taking should be fine, depends on if you are OK with touch keyboards/small keyboards or not, or using a touchscreen to write with (to my knowledge there is no wacom or synaptics stylus, only the bog standard touch screen).
SixSixSevenSeven said:
PowerPoint you can install on the device anyway so your fine on that front (uni may offer it for free too). Entertainment is up to you. Note taking should be fine, depends on if you are OK with touch keyboards/small keyboards or not, or using a touchscreen to write with (to my knowledge there is no wacom or synaptics stylus, only the bog standard touch screen).
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so which model of acer w700 you own?.how is the overall experience and battery backup?
rkoforever90 said:
so which model of acer w700 you own?.how is the overall experience and battery backup?
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I dont
Since I have an Acer W700 tablet, I would let you know something about the W700. I will compare it mostly with the Surface Pro because its a gold standard for Intel Core tablets
First thing first, W700 lacks the active digitizer. Don't expect writing and drawing to feel like the Surface Pro or Galaxy Note. Its far from it. I use Adonit Jot stylus, it helps a lot compared to other styli or finger input, but still nowhere as good as the Surface Pro.
Second, the battery last like Haswell tablets. This tablet is insane in term of battery life. I mostly get 6-7 hours for my usage. I use this tablets mostly for browsing, downloading, playing casual games, taking notes (OneNote FTW!), watching videos/movies and listening to music. If you look for an Ivy Bridge tablet that last like Haswell tablets, this is the only one.
Third, since I mentioned videos, movies, and music, I would say this tablet has great screen and speaker. The speaker is great for a tablet. If you enable the Dolby enhancement, the speaker will get louder (with some distortion), on par with cheaper multimedia laptops. Definitely better than the Surface Pro. The screen is also better than any tablet screen Ive ever used.
Fourth, it has no great keyboard solution. Unlike the Surface Pro which has options like the Type and Touch cover, the W700 relies on a Bluetooth keyboard or a case with integrated Bluetooth keyboard. Consult the seller first on which version you get. I would recommend the former since the latter is not comfortable (very, very thin), it is nice though. If you are a bit unlucky like me, youll get neither of them. I got a Perixx 804 Bluetooth keyboard for €25, and it works reliably over Bluetooth. This keyboard feels like a keyboard from Acer V5 or most Sony VAIOs (a bit harder than MacBooks)
Fifth, it has WiFi issue. This issue plagues mostly early generation of this tablet, but you might get this as well. On my W700, I have no problem with the disconnection. However, the signal is not as good as other devices. Usually, when the other devices still get 1 bar of signal, the W700 has lost connection.
Sixth, its graphic performance is not as great as how a HD4000 should be. The GPU suffers from bad throttling, making the performance only comparable to HD3000 GPU on most laptops (I tried with i5-2410M)
Overall, this tablet is geared towards entertainment (great screen and speaker) than business/work (no active digitizer and no keyboard solution). This device is great if you want to use one device rather than two (tablet+laptop), but don't expect too much. Since Haswell tablets are just behind the corner, I would suggest you to wait for some affordable Haswell tablets. However, if you cant wait, I would recommend this device over any Atom tablets unless you need an active digitizer.
My W700 is the i5-3317U model with 64 GB of storage. I wish I had the 128 GB model.
patrick_spd4u said:
My W700 is the i5-3317U model with 64 GB of storage. I wish I had the 128 GB model.
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Thermal throttling on the i5 model seems very common, yet rare on the i3 model
patrick_spd4u said:
Since I have an Acer W700 tablet, I would let you know something about the W700. I will compare it mostly with the Surface Pro because its a gold standard for Intel Core tablets
First thing first, W700 lacks the active digitizer. Don't expect writing and drawing to feel like the Surface Pro or Galaxy Note. Its far from it. I use Adonit Jot stylus, it helps a lot compared to other styli or finger input, but still nowhere as good as the Surface Pro.
Second, the battery last like Haswell tablets. This tablet is insane in term of battery life. I mostly get 6-7 hours for my usage. I use this tablets mostly for browsing, downloading, playing casual games, taking notes (OneNote FTW!), watching videos/movies and listening to music. If you look for an Ivy Bridge tablet that last like Haswell tablets, this is the only one.
Third, since I mentioned videos, movies, and music, I would say this tablet has great screen and speaker. The speaker is great for a tablet. If you enable the Dolby enhancement, the speaker will get louder (with some distortion), on par with cheaper multimedia laptops. Definitely better than the Surface Pro. The screen is also better than any tablet screen Ive ever used.
Fourth, it has no great keyboard solution. Unlike the Surface Pro which has options like the Type and Touch cover, the W700 relies on a Bluetooth keyboard or a case with integrated Bluetooth keyboard. Consult the seller first on which version you get. I would recommend the former since the latter is not comfortable (very, very thin), it is nice though. If you are a bit unlucky like me, youll get neither of them. I got a Perixx 804 Bluetooth keyboard for €25, and it works reliably over Bluetooth. This keyboard feels like a keyboard from Acer V5 or most Sony VAIOs (a bit harder than MacBooks)
Fifth, it has WiFi issue. This issue plagues mostly early generation of this tablet, but you might get this as well. On my W700, I have no problem with the disconnection. However, the signal is not as good as other devices. Usually, when the other devices still get 1 bar of signal, the W700 has lost connection.
Sixth, its graphic performance is not as great as how a HD4000 should be. The GPU suffers from bad throttling, making the performance only comparable to HD3000 GPU on most laptops (I tried with i5-2410M)
Overall, this tablet is geared towards entertainment (great screen and speaker) than business/work (no active digitizer and no keyboard solution). This device is great if you want to use one device rather than two (tablet+laptop), but don't expect too much. Since Haswell tablets are just behind the corner, I would suggest you to wait for some affordable Haswell tablets. However, if you cant wait, I would recommend this device over any Atom tablets unless you need an active digitizer.
My W700 is the i5-3317U model with 64 GB of storage. I wish I had the 128 GB model.
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Thanks a lot , and sorry for the late reply. iam getting a 450 pounds voucher of student store u.k from my uni and i asked them about the keyboard they told that it comes with the dock & keyboard + the case cover with keyboard out of box so i dont need to buy it seperately . also student store u.k dont have much options to choose from so either i need to wait till lenovo and acer comes out with baytrail or haswell 10+ inch tablets as the studentstore dont stock Asus, HP or Dell .
Also another thing i need to know is that whether the weight and thickness of w700 is an issue to use it as a tablet .
I'd wait to purchase a dell. Acer was terrible when I had it. Dell seems more reliable.
I have the i5 version that came with the dock and the keyboard case. Despite being labelled as having an i5-3317 processor on the box, mine says it has a i5-3337 inside. A patch has fixed the throttling issue for me. The tablet is relatively heavy, it gets uncomfortable to hold and use rather quickly. The thickness isn't a problem; it's actually pretty thin. It's fine to use with the keyboard case on the lap though.
I don't mind the keyboard case. It has full width keys, seems sturdy and keeps the whole setup light. The keys don't press down far due to the thinness of it though. I have to say I like keyboard docks more after using the Asus Transformer TF101, but that would mean adding weight to balance the tablet.
Changing the SSD inside is a bit challenging, but it's possible. It uses a standard mSATA interface according to those who've replaced it. The omission of a SD/microSD slot is a bit strange, but I'd say it has enough storage for most people.
I haven't had any issues with the Wi-Fi, although it seems many others are having trouble with it.
The recovery is on a couple of DVDs. If anything goes awry, you may need to get an external DVD drive. Windows 8 does have the refresh option, which makes things easier if Windows is the problem.
The cameras on the device work alright. Pictures taken look rather poor quality, but I find these things tend to be that way. I really don't know why they put a back facing camera on this thing; I think people using their iPads to take pictures is bad enough. I haven't used it for video chatting yet. Some have reported that the microphone isn't great. The mic is on the bottom edge, which might have something to do with it, but I haven't used it yet.
I enjoy having this tablet. It's as powerful as a laptop and it's fast.