Hello guys,
I'm glad to write the first post in this section.
We've all seen the Microsoft Windows Phone Summit this morning (evening) and had to notice, that they've focused on an "Complete Security Platform". Due to their "Enterprise Ready - Fundamentals", they implemented a Secure Boot and Bitlocker Encryption.
This will be very good for all of you, who are depending on a phone, that doesen't share all it's data if it's getting stolen etc.. But those of you, who built application for customization or any further experience, will get stuck.
I'd really like to discuss these news with you.
(Is the microSD support a hint for a sideloading possibility?)
It has already been hard from an interop to a full unlock for the existing devices. The Lumia 900 is up to now unaccessible...
Will this be a disadvantage in comparison to the Android strategy?
All comments are welcome!!!
Titus
This is still all brand new, so I imagine later that someone will be provided with a prototype of some sort and may be able to answer those questions? I think we should start a donation for the pioneers of homebrew on WP so we can get something good done =)
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Some pages state that there will be sideloading capabilities. I don't see those happen unless Microsoft is pretty sure that those can't be used to deploy Warez. Also companies will be able to deploy their own software so there has to be an alternate way to deploy software aside from the Marketplace.
But an official side load option would amount to pretty much the same as a current Developer unlock and deeper going functionality as what is provided by Interop/Full-Unlocks won't be available that way.
It is going to be interesting to get around those as the NT Kernel is likely to be a harder nut to crack than whatever Microsoft threw together on top of CE6 for WP7.
StevieBallz said:
Some pages state that there will be sideloading capabilities. I don't see those happen unless Microsoft is pretty sure that those can't be used to deploy Warez. Also companies will be able to deploy their own software so there has to be an alternate way to deploy software aside from the Marketplace.
But an official side load option would amount to pretty much the same as a current Developer unlock and deeper going functionality as what is provided by Interop/Full-Unlocks won't be available that way.
It is going to be interesting to get around those as the NT Kernel is likely to be a harder nut to crack than whatever Microsoft threw together on top of CE6 for WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. It will be difficult to break and it may take some time, but good thing we have some awesome people that are devoted to making it happen
hack is possible
I think were looking at this from the wrong perspective. The App developers for Windows 8 Metro will be key in the implementation of hacking the Windows 8 phone. As Microsoft stated, this phone 8 will work harmoniously with 8 metro.
Windows 8 Metro is comprised of at least 80% HTML5 coded APPS. HTML5 has huge advantages that have been exploited before in the past.
So, If Windows phone 8 is comprised of similar HTML5 code. I'm sure developers will be able to comprise a boot hack to enable sideloading.
:good:
Shaggykjb said:
I think were looking at this from the wrong perspective. The App developers for Windows 8 Metro will be key in the implementation of hacking the Windows 8 phone. As Microsoft stated, this phone 8 will work harmoniously with 8 metro.
Windows 8 Metro is comprised of at least 80% HTML5 coded APPS. HTML5 has huge advantages that have been exploited before in the past.
So, If Windows phone 8 is comprised of similar HTML5 code. I'm sure developers will be able to comprise a boot hack to enable sideloading.
:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't say a boot hack could be seen anytime soon due to bitlocker and secure boot.
Have you seen any exploits on the current Windows 8 through HTML5? Since Microsoft's implementations of ANYTHING are always different (Even when they say it is compliant), I would imagine that the HTML5 on W8 won't have the same exploits. I'm thinking it will be quite difficult, but I wouldn't say impossible. That's why I think we need the current WP7 hackers or even the Android hackers in on this... The ones that know and understand the low-level aspects of x86 and ARM to be able to know what is going on behind the scenes and try to get around it. Given that a good bit of the second gen windows phones still aren't able to be interop-unlocked and sideloaded, I am sure Microsoft has patched the ways those backdoors in w8 and wp8.
As so much Malware was installed through IE previously Microsoft did a great deal of work to harden it against Exploits. But furthermore it would only be the first step to find a vulnerability in the browser or an HTML5-App.
IE itself is run in it's own OS compartment which runs below regular user rights. So if code gets run in the Browser context it effectively can't do very much. This is one of the reasons why desktop exploits started to rely more heavily on Flash and Adobe Reader Bugs (those plugins ran on user privileges).
The HTML5-Apps are most likely to execute in the least priviledged chamber separated from each other very much alike to the way WP7s Silverlight Apps are isolated from each other.
Given that I guess it will need people who understand the system architecture pretty well to crack it open. The easiest vector for getting Homebrew Apps on most likely is the LOB (Line of Business)-App support.
Even if you were to find an exploit, it's highly doubtful that it will give you anything. WP8 is with UEFI Secure Boot something entirely new in that aspect, in that it's likely to see a full bottom-up chain of trust. You'd likely need to break UEFI itself to get any binaries persistently with elevated privileges. If the UEFI firmware is not upgradable on the device (for instanced burned on the chip) the protection is unlike for current phones theoretically perfect.
Of course, it remains to be seen in what extend WP8 will validate signatures, but if say any elevated code needs signing, then a permanent full/root unlock is very unlikely to achieve.
Hard SPL unlocks as they're seen with the Titan and Radar will also be a matter of the past with WP8.
TitusO said:
Hello guys,
I'm glad to write the first post in this section.
We've all seen the Microsoft Windows Phone Summit this morning (evening) and had to notice, that they've focused on an "Complete Security Platform". Due to their "Enterprise Ready - Fundamentals", they implemented a Secure Boot and Bitlocker Encryption.
This will be very good for all of you, who are depending on a phone, that doesen't share all it's data if it's getting stolen etc.. But those of you, who built application for customization or any further experience, will get stuck.
I'd really like to discuss these news with you.
(Is the microSD support a hint for a sideloading possibility?)
It has already been hard from an interop to a full unlock for the existing devices. The Lumia 900 is up to now unaccessible...
Will this be a disadvantage in comparison to the Android strategy?
All comments are welcome!!!
Titus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think if memory card access and file access as in symbian and android is available in windows 8 then we can sideload apps if not its impossible as inh lumia 900
vickylance said:
i think if memory card access and file access as in symbian and android is available in windows 8 then we can sideload apps if not its impossible as inh lumia 900
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have removable SD card support and can install applications to it. However, Microsoft stated that sideloading is only available for enterprises for a (nominal) fee. Meaning, it's highly likely that the phone will check signatures on all applications, including those on the SD card and you won't be able to run them otherwise. (actually WP7 does this already - if your devel unlock expires and the phone relocks, all unsigned apps will not run anymore)
ZetaZynK said:
However, Microsoft stated that sideloading is only available for enterprises for a (nominal) fee.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you got any source for Microsoft anouncing a fee per device to allow this. To my knowledge not much is yet announced in that regard. We know that there will be a cloud based solution for Management/Deployment (most likely inTune) and an on premise one.
According to CNet Asia a Microsoft Employee during Technet told them that SD-Card installation meant installation from SD-Card instead of App-Installation to the SD-Card (see here: http://asia.cnet.com/apps-cannot-be-installed-to-microsd-cards-on-wp8-62217133.htm)
The latest rumor is that WP8 will include TPM chips on all handsets. Thus will drive added hardware security to the firmware. I am feeling very skeptical that WP8 will be rootable as a result. I have a TPM system in my Win 8 laptop and it is damned secure.
Sent from my Kindle Fire running ICS
StevieBallz said:
Have you got any source for Microsoft anouncing a fee per device to allow this. To my knowledge not much is yet announced in that regard. We know that there will be a cloud based solution for Management/Deployment (most likely inTune) and an on premise one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm, I believed I had read this, but seems you're correct. Not sure where I believed to have done so right now.
kenikh said:
The latest rumor is that WP8 will include TPM chips on all handsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TPM is not the problem here - secure boot is. Considering Microsoft announced secure boot as part of the WP8 announcement, it's kind of likely that all devices will ship it.
Secure boot and a TPM both can deliver a trusted boot path, but with significant differences in the execution. With a TPM you store a key and Platform Context Registers (PCRs) on the module - if the PCRs mismatch then some part of the configuration was altered which is likely indicating a breach of trust in the boot path. With Secure Boot, one or more vendor generated keys (and not a self-generated one, like on a TPM)are stored in the system's firmware. If the boot loader is not signed by one of those keys, the device refuses to boot. This means that you can't replace the boot loader with custom code (as you do with for instance a HSPL). In a TPM-based scenario, the user can re-assign TPM ownership, Secure Boot has no such concept.
Note: x86 PCs will come with Secure Boot too, soon. However, MSFT requires ARM devices to have these keys assigned by the OEM and requires the manufacturer to allow changing the keys or disabling Secure Boot - for x86, they require the opposite, a PC without an option to add your own keys or to disable secure boot would fail the Windows 8 hardware certification.
If you come across the information again please let us know. There seems to be some confusion on the SD card topic (WinSuperSite reported differently).
As for secure boot and the TPM: if Microsoft decides to make CustomROMs hard the best course of action seems to emulate the "Enterprise Marketplace" given the assumption that those won't user Microsoft certificates but instead company certificates (which could be installed by the user similarily to the Exchange server certificates today). But we'll have to wait and see how that gets implemented in the end.
PS: Just found the following on Microsofts Windows Phone Developer Blog
LOB app deployment – Many enterprises understandably want to keep their line-of-business (LOB) apps in-house, controlling how they get published and deployed. In Windows Phone 8, we support several new channels for deploying LOB apps to enterprise devices, including installing from a website, SharePoint, or email.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds pretty much like sideloading might be a lot easier then we think it is.
Here is the problem with this... We're going to see DRM to the max. This has a chance of ruining the experience, just look at Apple recently. Also side-loading could be bad for the OS as look at Google with the possible Botnet + Trojans.
More importantly as a Dev, I fear more than anything, my code will be stolen, even if I Obfuscate the XAP. I rather my App be taken than my coding be compromised.
lseidman said:
Here is the problem with this... We're going to see DRM to the max. This has a chance of ruining the experience, just look at Apple recently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft ruins the experience for WP7s even more imho. There's really a lot of essential stuff that unlocked WP7s can do, but that stock WP7 is unable to do.
lseidman said:
Also side-loading could be bad for the OS as look at Google with the possible Botnet + Trojans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This can be easily worked around: If they just made developer unlocks free (keeping the same deployment system as is), that would make it near to impossible for malware to spread.
lseidman said:
More importantly as a Dev, I fear more than anything, my code will be stolen, even if I Obfuscate the XAP. I rather my App be taken than my coding be compromised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...and this is why I believe WP8 will have security measures against abuse of that private app deployment feature. Also, XAPs are not even badly protected right now.
Just for fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSnkWzZ7ZAA
He uses WP7 on 1:50
THE most informative thread on the WP8 section hands down....all u guys...BIG thanx for all the info...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.
This information is kind of making me question whether I really want to switch from Android to WP8. Anyone having used both android and WP8 want to share their thoughts? I know WP7/8 is closed similar to iOS but I think I'd like to atleast be able to sideload apps.
devize said:
This information is kind of making me question whether I really want to switch from Android to WP8. Anyone having used both android and WP8 want to share their thoughts? I know WP7/8 is closed similar to iOS but I think I'd like to atleast be able to sideload apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stick with Android. Windows phone will not be developer friendly. This is my biggest problem with windows phone. The whole works out of the box experience really doesn't work when the software is young and lacking basic functionality . There is barely anything you can do with wp7 right now and winp8 is supposed to be even more locked down
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Related
I don't want this to become a discussion of which OS is better, but does anyone think there will be a windows 8 install available for the A500? I read that windows 8 will support arm. Just curious.
Sent from my A501 using Tapatalk
No, the drivers aren't there for it, but they may release an upgrade for the w500 which was acers windows version of out tablet. It had different hardware specs than the a500.
Tegra 3 tablets will supposedly run Windows 8 (ARM Edition).
youtube.com/watch?v=HWOOefm_rwo
Tegra 3 tablets designed for windows will run windows 8, tegra 3 tablets designed for android won't. That is the same as the tegra 2 tablets, if you bought a Acer W500 it came with windows and you can't upgrade it to android because the driver support isn't there. The tablets came with different parts inside. Without the drivers your out of luck.
cruise350 said:
Tegra 3 tablets designed for windows will run windows 8, tegra 3 tablets designed for android won't. That is the same as the tegra 2 tablets, if you bought a Acer W500 it came with windows and you can't upgrade it to android because the driver support isn't there. The tablets came with different parts inside. Without the drivers your out of luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cannot compare to W500: W500 isn't a Tegra 2 tablet.
Windows 8 ARM (WHERE ARE YOU)
This question has been asked and talked about over and over again...
I do think it all depends on the windows 8 arm version.. myself because of the way linux is partitioned. The way our device is partitioned Size of boot / system partitions and OF course the protected boot loader.. IT will take some very extreme hacks to just get it installed .then there is the whole drive thing people are talking about.Thou many tegra devices shares alot of hardware. and there is a huge chance that this device could have the same hardware as in camera bluetooth gps and so on as the w500. im almost Positive its the same with the camera and bluetooth . as i have a acer and a gateway notebook that share these same common hardware chip type devices the chinon (i think is proper spelling) for cam . the iconia has this cam chip as well .
if you factor all of this together.. Someone would really have to want it VERY BAD.. or microsoft will have to do alot of testing with ACER .
the short answer is .. FLIP A COIN WILL Bring just as good answeres until its out in beta..
An answer from Acer technical support
I ask gently to the technical support if Windows 8 Will be ported to the Iconia Tab A501 and the answer was really short ...
NO
So, if some people work on it to build one for us, we will have it. Other else, too bad
ArtSooby said:
I ask gently to the technical support if Windows 8 Will be ported to the Iconia Tab A501 and the answer was really short ...
NO
So, if some people work on it to build one for us, we will have it. Other else, too bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, isn't that what we said already? Why is it that hard to believe?
Win8ARM will not be sold separately, it can only come preinstalled. Secondly, Microsoft is only allowing it on fully locked-down devices; no open bootloaders for you. Thirdly it'll be very hard to even get admin access because Win8ARM doesn't allow sideloading; all and every single application must come from the Windows Store. No, you cannot run or install stuff from USB or Flash or network shares. All these things considering it'll be a wonder if someone can even copy the ROM successfully, let alone make it run on a device which doesn't have Secure Boot.
Short answer: NO, A500 WILL NOT GET WIN8.
A slight taste of the Near future .
WereCatf said:
Yes, isn't that what we said already? Why is it that hard to believe?
Win8ARM will not be sold separately, it can only come preinstalled. Secondly, Microsoft is only allowing it on fully locked-down devices; no open bootloaders for you. Thirdly it'll be very hard to even get admin access because Win8ARM doesn't allow sideloading; all and every single application must come from the Windows Store. No, you cannot run or install stuff from USB or Flash or network shares. All these things considering it'll be a wonder if someone can even copy the ROM successfully, let alone make it run on a device which doesn't have Secure Boot.
Short answer: NO, A500 WILL NOT GET WIN8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OVER The past 10 years i have been saying. been protesting. that eventually that if this locked device and embedded software is not stopped with laws .All electronic devices will end up with a very short end of life from manufacturers. Well folks its here. If Microsoft does the above. Well even they will push minor but much needed updates like security fixes on old devices devices and make them OBSOLETE much sooner by not supporting new much needed technology to keep devices viable..
This by the way Microsoft has been two faced from MS . there statement is ( THe manufacture has a choice rather to lock a device or not but they believe the end use should have a right to choose what os to run on there device. They say in this statement they are confident everyone will choose ms software ) This statement i disagree with . the only way to protect our right to have unlocked devices is to take it to the COURTS. But with all the recent activity about piracy this is a fight that will Be very hard and a long battle. EMBEDED SYSTEMS IS THE FUTURE AND WILL COST CUTTING EDGE CONSUMERS BILLIONS. Someone very good with web development start a TRUE WEBSITE TO PROTEST THIS.. many will join in and make this fight start now before its to late..
YES The above sounds like a conspiracy just do some research then post your opinion . Sorry op of this is off topic but its kinda related..
erica_renee said:
there statement is ( THe manufacture has a choice rather to lock a device or not but they believe the end use should have a right to choose what os to run on there device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, you're slightly incorrect there; Microsoft says that only about PCs, ie. PCs must have Secure Boot enabled, but the manufacturer can decide whether or not to allow end-users to disable that. But on ARM devices Secure Boot MUST be enabled and there must be absolutely no way for end-users to disable that or the manufacturer won't be allowed to sell Windows 8.
WereCatf said:
Actually, you're slightly incorrect there; Microsoft says that only about PCs, ie. PCs must have Secure Boot enabled, but the manufacturer can decide whether or not to allow end-users to disable that. But on ARM devices Secure Boot MUST be enabled and there must be absolutely no way for end-users to disable that or the manufacturer won't be allowed to sell Windows 8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YES you are Totally correct. Sorry .. . either way Its bad news for the consumer.Giving manufactures this ability
Microsoft had Windows 7 working on ARM tablets 2 years ago. They are obviously looking at this potential market.
WereCatf said:
Yes, isn't that what we said already? Why is it that hard to believe?
Win8ARM will not be sold separately, it can only come preinstalled. Secondly, Microsoft is only allowing it on fully locked-down devices; no open bootloaders for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while I don't doubt the A50x will not see Win8, I do have to say... What Microsoft WANTS and what we the users DO seldom go hand in hand
Nope
I can't understand why people even think that this could be possible? the ONLY chance you'd see WinRT running on A500 is that m$ used it as a development platform...like HTC HD2 got wp7. Also, you need someone inside to leak the test OS....
Porting an ARM OS it's all about proper drivers, considering the ARM version and SOC design are somehow on the same gen. Nobody is insane enough to try and port a CLOSED OS. Even if it wasn't closed tight, porting and tweaking drivers is a hell of a job...just look at Android ( a Linux based, open source OS), how hard is to get rid of bugs because manufacturers like to keep the drivers closed source.
Also, it is imperative for MS,in order to get a chance in tablet market, to have a close-to- flawless OS,just like IoS, where the bugs are scarce. getting this job done requires at least two big choices to be made. You can only do that by completely opening the whole OS and hardware, therefore rely on a full pool of devs< nobody's choice> or you can do it by having clearly drawn/ restricted hardware devices, like WP7 phones and IOS devices.
I don't believe in locked down BLs, but I see no way that an Android native device will ever run WinRT.
It will of course happen, but it will take tremendous work to do. This always happens to an allegedly locked down OS... case in point- Hackintoshs where people install OSX onto a PC. People were even putting Android onto old WinMo handsets.
But you inevitably end up with a device that doesn't work as well as the original. Drivers were mentioned, plus there's being off the update/patch path, and plain & simple bugs that always crop up.
tl;dr: Yes, expect it. No, it won't work well.
Good news! Not only did Microsoft officially announce windows 8.1, but they also announced the public preview will be coming on June 26! :laugh: Even better news, the preview is for not only Windows 8, but also windows RT! This sounds like an opportunity to make Windows RT able to run recompiled desktop apps without a jailbreak... Will they?
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/14/windows-keeps-getting-better.aspx
C-Lang said:
Good news! Not only did Microsoft officially announce windows 8.1, but they also announced the public preview will be coming on June 26! :laugh: Even better news, the preview is for not only Windows 8, but also windows RT! This sounds like an opportunity to make Windows RT able to run recompiled desktop apps without a jailbreak... Will they?
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/14/windows-keeps-getting-better.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also to add to this, it will be free for all people on windows 8
@C-Lang: We can definitely hope... but it could also be when they finally get around to patching the years-old kernel vulnerability that the "jailbreak" relies on. Microsoft spat in the faces of WP7 users multiple times over multiple causes, but homebrew in particular they tried hard to shut down. The Windows Client (desktop and now RT) and Windows Phone teams are different, to be sure, but the old WinMo teams were fine with homebrew so they may have been driven by a higher-up at the company. Let's face it, Microsoft has already been pretty hostile towards people who want to control their own hardware, or they would have provided a way to disable Secure Boot on RT (hey, we already paid for the OS!) or at least not locked out Testsigning and Debug boot modes...
I don't usually attack MS, and I hope dearly that you're more right than I am, but history is against it. WP7.0 was immature and rushed, but it was also reasonably hackable and rapidly developed an active homebrew community who added some features that the base OS lacked (and sorely needed). Then we watched as the first major WP7 update (Mango) delivered a major slap in the face to the whole homebrew community, knocking our progress back by months while implementing almost none of the features that homebrew had provided. Once Mango and its interop-lock were firmly in place, Microsoft finally permitted the ChevronWP7 Labs unlocker that had been promised so long ago - only to, surprise, kill it merely a few months later. I do not trust Microsoft to not try and revert Windows RT into a mere web-browsing-and-crappy-email-client OS (plus Skype) in a misguided effort to try and milk some more money out of forcing people to use the decidedly sub-optimal "Windows Store apps" for things that a desktop app can do so, so much better (or that a Metro app can't do at all)...
Time will tell, though. They have reversed really stupid decisions before, like the mandatory Flash whitelist.
Honestly, I think that if MS was going to patch the jailbreak then they would've done it by now. This would be a prime time for them to do it, though.
Time will tell, just over a month left. There've been leaked betas, though, right? We should check if the exploit is still present in those.
GoodDayToDie said:
@C-Lang: We can definitely hope... but it could also be when they finally get around to patching the years-old kernel vulnerability that the "jailbreak" relies on. Microsoft spat in the faces of WP7 users multiple times over multiple causes, but homebrew in particular they tried hard to shut down. The Windows Client (desktop and now RT) and Windows Phone teams are different, to be sure, but the old WinMo teams were fine with homebrew so they may have been driven by a higher-up at the company. Let's face it, Microsoft has already been pretty hostile towards people who want to control their own hardware, or they would have provided a way to disable Secure Boot on RT (hey, we already paid for the OS!) or at least not locked out Testsigning and Debug boot modes...
I don't usually attack MS, and I hope dearly that you're more right than I am, but history is against it. WP7.0 was immature and rushed, but it was also reasonably hackable and rapidly developed an active homebrew community who added some features that the base OS lacked (and sorely needed). Then we watched as the first major WP7 update (Mango) delivered a major slap in the face to the whole homebrew community, knocking our progress back by months while implementing almost none of the features that homebrew had provided. Once Mango and its interop-lock were firmly in place, Microsoft finally permitted the ChevronWP7 Labs unlocker that had been promised so long ago - only to, surprise, kill it merely a few months later. I do not trust Microsoft to not try and revert Windows RT into a mere web-browsing-and-crappy-email-client OS (plus Skype) in a misguided effort to try and milk some more money out of forcing people to use the decidedly sub-optimal "Windows Store apps" for things that a desktop app can do so, so much better (or that a Metro app can't do at all)...
Time will tell, though. They have reversed really stupid decisions before, like the mandatory Flash whitelist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting... I've only had my Windows Phone (currently running 7.8) for a little while. We can only hope!
netham45 said:
Honestly, I think that if MS was going to patch the jailbreak then they would've done it by now. This would be a prime time for them to do it, though.
Time will tell, just over a month left. There've been leaked betas, though, right? We should check if the exploit is still present in those.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sort of... the x86 has leaked, but we don't have RT yet. I guess we'll see in a little more than a month!
I just hope that fix the driver for my TP Link receiver... I had to switch to Windows 7 because of that
Sent from my LT22i using Tapatalk 2
C-Lang said:
This sounds like an opportunity to make Windows RT able to run recompiled desktop apps without a jailbreak... Will they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dream on buddy
The Automatic Desktop Display Scaling is one of the more important changes I think..
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/blue-automatic-desktop-display-scaling
Hi all.
Haven't seen this topic yet so I thought I'd introduce it. Has a petition ever been sent directly to Microsoft to allow jailbreaking and development of apps in a Cydia like store. I'm positive this would increase the popularity of wp8. There are are so many little things like decreasing the interval for updating live tile, and creating playlists on the phone itself. Widgets would also be nice. I just got a 920 and like it a lot. I was using launcher8 on my gn2 before and that launcher allowed widgets on tiles, more rectangular tile options etc.
Are you really think that Microsoft or somebody else care about these petitions?
Useless guy said:
Are you really think that Microsoft or somebody else care about these petitions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if enough people sign, then yes I do. I'm convinced that many iOS and android users would try a windows phone. There would be far more developers making apps also.
Jailbreaking will never be allowed on windows phone becuase Microsoft wants to win over the business sector. One of the reason the secure boot was implemented was because of businesses complaining about security on WP7.
Besides, there aren't really BIG things to get from jailbreaking, other than useless things some individuals care about. the vast majority of WP8 users are happy with their phones, plus most of the things you are asking (like adding playlists on the phone), will be supported eventually.
Lowering the interval for live tiles is a really bad idea btw.
If microsoft ever allows access to the file system, there will be no need for anything else: developers will pick it up from there and do their thing.
Ain't ever going to happen. Ms is bent over backwards by OEMS and carriers
Sent from my Arc using xda app-developers app
we need to start a kickstarter or offer a bounty on xda
I am sure if we started a bounty or kickstarter and rightfully paid one of the hackers to jailbreak wp8 they could get the job done a lot sooner
so how shall we go about this?
I am ready to offer my contribution
noelito said:
I am sure if we started a bounty or kickstarter and rightfully paid one of the hackers to jailbreak wp8 they could get the job done a lot sooner
so how shall we go about this?
I am ready to offer my contribution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still won't happen dude. I don't know but there seems to be some sort of aversion to WP by all the devs. The iPhone/iPad community has a number of devs piling over eachother to bring out the "next best way to JB". Android, I don't even need to get started. Other OSs too will fall in place soon. But what keeps the devs away from WP is a bit of a mystery to me.
BTW, I hope you know what happened to the kids that jailbroke the first Gen WP devices. They got hired by MS and were given a T shirt, if my memory is good.
So... that's that.
It's hilarious how you people believe that is easy to exploit WP8, Devices that use it have Secure Boot and Bitlocker so exploiting the boot process is practically impossible, exploiting on app-level is also hard as all apps run over a sandbox and the user has no administrator privileges so you can't use the sandbox exploitation available for Windows RT.
Plus there's overall no appeal for hacking it other than it runs over NT.
I think we should do it, there is nothing to loose, but it shouldn't be for jail breaking but for allowing file system access similar to Windows RT
Everybody can try to found a exploit.
If somebody will have luck, he will be the man....
But like people here say...
Its very very hard!
Sent from my GT-I8750 using Board Express
It's better for Microsoft (in the long run) that the OS will not be jailbroken: Jailbroken devices can install pirated applications, and pirated applications makes application developers angry.
Currently, app devs have no choice but to develop their applications to the 2 major OSs out there (iOS and Android), and know that in some point it is quite likely that people who jailbreak their devices can install pirated copies of their applications.
In the long run, as WP would start gaining major market share, application developers would be more keen to focus their development for WP as they'd know their property could not be pirated (if, supposedly, WP will remain unhacked).
This is of course only hypothetical - there's no protection which is made by men and cannot be hacked by men, and I'm more than sure that the more user-base and interest WP gains, the more likely is that someone would find a loophole in the OS and it'd be jailbroken...
And maybe not
Thread moved to General
I am as well very certain that Microsoft will not allow for Jailbreaking of the devices. They have some programs that will get you a free dev account to develop on top of the Plattform but they don't Support changes to the Plattform itself. If you want to make your Point about giving Devs certain APIs go to wpdev.uservoice.com and Support them with your votes.
As for jailbreaking WP: I'm sure it can be done because in the end: techniques exist to exploit basically everything but as was already said: Microsoft isn't making it easy.
StevieBallz said:
I am as well very certain that Microsoft will not allow for Jailbreaking of the devices. They have some programs that will get you a free dev account to develop on top of the Plattform but they don't Support changes to the Plattform itself. If you want to make your Point about giving Devs certain APIs go to wpdev.uservoice.com and Support them with your votes.
As for jailbreaking WP: I'm sure it can be done because in the end: techniques exist to exploit basically everything but as was already said: Microsoft isn't making it easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may be possible, but as for now they have closed damn near every hole we could think of. I'd say the only way we can hope for SOME progress is if we can exploit the root certificate and policies somehow. I know GoodDayToDie had a few good potential ideas. It's not that the device NEEDS to be jailbroken, we need to be given more trust. I feel as if Microsoft automatically feels like we will screw everything up so it's being our overprotective mother instead. We all know what happens when you are too overprotective to those you care about.....
With that said, if we can just be given a LITTLE more freedom.. That's all I ask for. I don't think we would have to worry about any type of malware since the App Hub process is smart enough to give me the red X if I'm trying to call MessageBox.Show() from a background task.
/endrant.
What if we paid you the bounty?
Sent from my SGH-T899M using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
iOS is certified afaik for government use, so the business security issue is specious. Not everybody will hack their device anyway.
There are different levels of security certifications, similarily to Mil-Spec Standards that exist for a lot of different criteria. Allowing people to do more with their devices isn't really at the core of Microsoft's concerns here. They don't try to push it though as they want applications in the Store and not on the web. Piracy is likely to play a role here too.
As for a bounty to make a JailBreak happen - it might be an incentive for certain developers to start looking into it. With WP7 the way most of the time was to hack the Bootloader and then flash a custom ROM to allow for additional access. With WP8 people might need to look into other ways in given that Secure Boot is likely to be a very hard nut to crack. Given that the original Jailbreak for WP7 relied on custom certificates it's likely that Microsoft invested there to close this off better but it's of course still worth investigating.
The more important part in the end would be to get Microsoft to make more available through the official APIs. They are extending those and this has made more functionality available every time they did a major update to the OS (Mango, Apollo).
Another point to note is that native interop is now part of the regular SDK. It's therefore likely that native APIs will be better protected against accesses from unauthorized Apps than they have been in WP7 (where the problem was getting native code to run at all).
RCranium666 said:
if enough people sign, then yes I do. I'm convinced that many iOS and android users would try a windows phone. There would be far more developers making apps also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying to be negative but I don't think the would care. On their won suggestion site (http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions/suggestions/2281201-custom-sounds-for-sms-mms-email-notifications-e) the haven't even responded to the 40,000 + petitions that people have been voting for 2 years for custom MMS\SMS; something that is so easy to do.
Thanks for everyone's responses. I just went back to my gn2. I found too many compromises in wp8. The funny thing is, I use a wp8 launcher on android and it's much more versatile than wp8 itself. The l920 was also a disappointment. I'm no stranger to phone cameras and I was rarely able to take a good picture with it. I like the l920's design better than the gn2, but not much else.
Hi guys,
Is it somehow possible to install an app that is exclusively available for 1GB devices on a Low-End Windows Phone with 512MB?
I really want to know why many apps are not available for Low-End devices and fear that this is just a strategy of Microsoft for selling more High-End Windows Phones. So I thought about buying a Huawei Ascend W1 to test this, but I'm not sure how and if it is possible.
First there is the easiest possibility with downloading the XAP from the store and installing it manually from the SD card. Does this work? This would be way to easy so I think it doesn't.
Lately I heard something about "cracking" Windows Phone 8 apps? Is this possible and does someone know how? There are many sites providing these XAPs on the internet. Would it work then? Is there any certificate that Microsoft provides with every downloaded app?
Second possibility would be using the Developer Tools from the SDK. This is the way how I used to install Skype on the Lumia 610. (and it worked perfectly!)
Is this still possible with a normale or "cracked" XAP-file?
Third idea: a Chinese hacker called reker recently accomplished to jailbreak a Huawei Ascend W1. Do you know if this allows us to install 1GB apps on it?
This is really not for piracy and I will/have bought/buy every app that I am going to test. According to the law in the country I live in, I am allowed to use applications on any other device as long as I legally bought any kind of license for it.
So basically I would be allowed play Halo Spartan Assault on the Xbox if I found a possibility to run it.
I just don't trust Microsoft anymore after I have seen that only apps by famous developer-studios publish apps exclusively for 1GB devices.
Thank's in advance.
papalakaka said:
Hi guys,
Is it somehow possible to install an app that is exclusively available for 1GB devices on a Low-End Windows Phone with 512MB?
I really want to know why many apps are not available for Low-End devices and fear that this is just a strategy of Microsoft for selling more High-End Windows Phones. So I thought about buying a Huawei Ascend W1 to test this, but I'm not sure how and if it is possible.
First there is the easiest possibility with downloading the XAP from the store and installing it manually from the SD card. Does this work? This would be way to easy so I think it doesn't.
Lately I heard something about "cracking" Windows Phone 8 apps? Is this possible and does someone know how? There are many sites providing these XAPs on the internet. Would it work then? Is there any certificate that Microsoft provides with every downloaded app?
Second possibility would be using the Developer Tools from the SDK. This is the way how I used to install Skype on the Lumia 610. (and it worked perfectly!)
Is this still possible with a normale or "cracked" XAP-file?
Third idea: a Chinese hacker called reker recently accomplished to jailbreak a Huawei Ascend W1. Do you know if this allows us to install 1GB apps on it?
This is really not for piracy and I will/have bought/buy every app that I am going to test. According to the law in the country I live in, I am allowed to use applications on any other device as long as I legally bought any kind of license for it.
So basically I would be allowed play Halo Spartan Assault on the Xbox if I found a possibility to run it.
I just don't trust Microsoft anymore after I have seen that only apps by famous developer-studios publish apps exclusively for 1GB devices.
Thank's in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These apps that come for 1 GB memory devices only are typically apps that are ported from other platforms and are improperly optimized for the current system.
Most apps, if coded correctly, shouldn't use more than 180 MB, which is what 512 MB devices allow for app consumption.
Theoretically, the limitation is put in place by some property in the WMAappManifest file for the application. If removed, the app should work properly on 512 MB devices, but you risk getting memory related crashes.
Most of the time, apps come in 1GB-only version and then are "ported" to support 512 MB as well, since the large majority of WP8 are 512 MB.
Then there's also the problem of screen resolution: high res devices will use more RAM to render stuff, which is why they all have 1 GB, or in the case of lumia 1020, 2GB.
thank's for your reply.
I have already talked to a developer who told me nearly the exact thing. He explained that these developers who are working for studios are under pressure, because these apps have to be published at time. also they want to keep the code as near to the source as possible. Therefore they don't optimize the apps properly. Still these apps should be able to run, because the RAM is mostly used for the cache of levels before starting. This means when less objects are cached, the processor has to work more, which leads to a higher power combustion.
Do you know if this WMAppManifest is saved in the XAP-file? Can I manipulate it somehow?
I have read something about it on MSDN, but I don't know where it is saved.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop/jj681682(v=vs.105).aspx
I plan to buy a Low-End device and if it is bricked or somehow destroyed by overheating while trying this, I know, that Microsoft said the truth. The W1 isn't expensive and this is really worth testing.
papalakaka said:
thank's for your reply.
I have already talked to a developer who told me nearly the exact thing. He explained that these developers who are working for studios are under pressure, because these apps have to be published at time. also they want to keep the code as near to the source as possible. Therefore they don't optimize the apps properly. Still these apps should be able to run, because the RAM is mostly used for the cache of levels before starting. This means when less objects are cached, the processor has to work more, which leads to a higher power combustion.
Do you know if this WMAppManifest is saved in the XAP-file? Can I manipulate it somehow?
I have read something about it on MSDN, but I don't know where it is saved.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop/jj681682(v=vs.105).aspx
I plan to buy a Low-End device and if it is bricked or somehow destroyed by overheating while trying this, I know, that Microsoft said the truth. The W1 isn't expensive and this is really worth testing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the WMAappManifest is indeed located in the XAP, but you can not edit the XAP because they are encrypted by the marketplace.
If you wanna be safe and still get a high-endish phone, I suggest the lumia 820: has 1 GB of RAM and priced quite well.
The problem i see with 512 MB devices is that at some point microsoft will be forced to abandon them. I wouldn't be surprised if Windows Phone 9 will be unavailable for WP8 512 MB devices.
actually I have the Lumia 920 and I just want to test this if it works. I think it is worth trying, but I need to know how it is possible.
Maybe by jailbreaking the Huawei? There was a thread here on XDA.
So this means, manipulating isn't the way to do it. Any other ideas? What happens if I try to install it via SD card?
Is it somehow possible to "crack" the app without affecting this encryption?
papalakaka said:
actually I have the Lumia 920 and I just want to test this if it works. I think it is worth trying, but I need to know how it is possible.
Maybe by jailbreaking the Huawei? There was a thread here on XDA.
So this means, manipulating isn't the way to do it. Any other ideas? What happens if I try to install it via SD card?
Is it somehow possible to "crack" the app without affecting this encryption?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as we know, the XAP is uncrackable at the moment, because it is compiled to native binaries. You will need decompile the thing back to MSIL, which isn't trivial. In the case of directx games (which represent the majority of 1GB-only apps) this gets even harder, even if you try installing via SD. But we have very skilled hackers working on it.
For a long time we thought WP8 was uncrackable, until the W1 jailbreak. The jailbreak will happen, sooner or latter, remember, WP8 doesn't even have one year in the wild.
I am not 100% sure how that guy who jailbroke the W1 manage to fool the XAP and marketplace checking.
You can try this: http://www.windowsmania.pl/poradnik...1gb-na-telefonach-z-512mb-nowy-poradnik-4504/
This is Polish site, but you can use google translator
mcosmin222 said:
As far as we know, the XAP is uncrackable at the moment, because it is compiled to native binaries. You will need decompile the thing back to MSIL, which isn't trivial. In the case of directx games (which represent the majority of 1GB-only apps) this gets even harder, even if you try installing via SD. But we have very skilled hackers working on it.
For a long time we thought WP8 was uncrackable, until the W1 jailbreak. The jailbreak will happen, sooner or latter, remember, WP8 doesn't even have one year in the wild.
I am not 100% sure how that guy who jailbroke the W1 manage to fool the XAP and marketplace checking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your explanation.
That is why I consider buying the W1, but I haven't understood yet how the jailbreak works at all. But I must say that I haven't had much time to read the thread completely.
I will try what I can and I really believe in the hackers at XDA. They are really talented and making impossible things easy for every user.
Maybe he sideloaded the app somehow?
Budniu said:
You can try this: http://www.windowsmania.pl/poradnik...1gb-na-telefonach-z-512mb-nowy-poradnik-4504/
This is Polish site, but you can use google translator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, I will try this as soon as I have the device. Does this really work for sure?
I don't know because I don't need that, but people wrote that is working good.
Hey Everyone!
I normally don't really like to do these type of threads but I'm genuinely curious what everyone thinks will happen to the WP hacking scene once Windows 10 hit and Windows Phone and "Big Windows" becomes one. We've had some pretty good success with Windows Phone 8 and 8.1, I'm looking foreword to see what happens post Windows 10.
Happy Hacking!
TheInterframe said:
Hey Everyone!
I normally don't really like to do these type of threads but I'm genuinely curious what everyone thinks will happen to the WP hacking scene once Windows 10 hit and Windows Phone and "Big Windows" becomes one. We've had some pretty good success with Windows Phone 8 and 8.1, I'm looking foreword to see what happens post Windows 10.
Happy Hacking!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who knows. I never seen new WP10 build XD
It is interesting that there was no leak of phone version ;D
If someone want there is some xaps from me of nokia apps (like extras+info, screen control, audio control etc., everything unpacked )
Sorry for speed of download
and faster OneDrive:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=60A67CB739CC5A8!147787
Well I like my low end lumia 635 and the several hundred app's that I got deployed on it. So I for one will not take the plunge and update until I can do the same thing with win 10. I do however want to update but why if it's going to kill my enjoyment. And Then theres the big question will we be able to hack or mod this new os?.
I am pretty sure that hacking the Windows 10 Core will be way more interesting than hacking Windows Phones. Why? Because there is one unified core for Windows, Windows "Mobile" (RT / Phone), possibly the xbox and the IoT.
In most meaningful ways, that's already the case. There are significant differences between the version of NT on the phone and the one that powers a desktop PC, but most of them come down to making the phone's hardware requirements lower and not having any traditional full-trust user software. For example, it's already theoretically possible to use most Win8 exploits on WP8, but they usually aren't very practical because the exploit expects higher privileges than a WP8 can get, or aren't very effective because the level of privilege you gain is much lower than an equivalent action on a Windows PC would get you.
As for the hacking scene in general, a lot of it is going to come down to how locked down WP10 is. If Microsoft continues its recent trend of being aggressively anti-hacker even when that also means being anti-user (see, for example, the whole Windows RT fiasco) then WP10 could simply fail to garner much interest from the hacker crowd - we love a challenge, but at some point we lose interest in commercially supporting such a platform. On the other hand, if they continue making pro-user changes that also positively benefit hackers, such as allowing apps to be installed to the SD card, then WP10 could end up very interesting indeed! WP8.0 was a less-interesting hacking target than WP7.5, and 7.5 was less interesting than 7.0, but WP8.1 is arguably more interesting than 8.0; what we lost in the ability to do capability unlocks, we probably gained (and more) in the various SD card tricks.
Honestly speaking, I don't see WP becoming anywhere near as interesting as Android unless Microsoft AT LEAST allows sideloading without requiring a dev license.
The status quo means that ALL of the more interesting apps (that is, interesting to a power user) will never run on the platform, because Microsoft would never allow them to exist.
I likewise believe that Windows will continue to be a lackluster mobile platform. The problem is it will never garner decent word of mouth sales. A lot of people these days make their buying choices based on what their geek friend might tell them, and most geeks aren't going to be interested in a platform that is so rigid that you can't do a whole lot with it unless Microsoft had already thought of it and explicitly permitted it.
If they put a fee behind it, any fee at all, then they're permanently going to be relegated to being no more popular than having a BREW license was back in the feature phone days.