Database Users

Windows 8 on the Iconia

I don't want this to become a discussion of which OS is better, but does anyone think there will be a windows 8 install available for the A500? I read that windows 8 will support arm. Just curious.
Sent from my A501 using Tapatalk

No, the drivers aren't there for it, but they may release an upgrade for the w500 which was acers windows version of out tablet. It had different hardware specs than the a500.

Tegra 3 tablets will supposedly run Windows 8 (ARM Edition).
youtube.com/watch?v=HWOOefm_rwo

Tegra 3 tablets designed for windows will run windows 8, tegra 3 tablets designed for android won't. That is the same as the tegra 2 tablets, if you bought a Acer W500 it came with windows and you can't upgrade it to android because the driver support isn't there. The tablets came with different parts inside. Without the drivers your out of luck.

cruise350 said:
Tegra 3 tablets designed for windows will run windows 8, tegra 3 tablets designed for android won't. That is the same as the tegra 2 tablets, if you bought a Acer W500 it came with windows and you can't upgrade it to android because the driver support isn't there. The tablets came with different parts inside. Without the drivers your out of luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cannot compare to W500: W500 isn't a Tegra 2 tablet.

Windows 8 ARM (WHERE ARE YOU)
This question has been asked and talked about over and over again...
I do think it all depends on the windows 8 arm version.. myself because of the way linux is partitioned. The way our device is partitioned Size of boot / system partitions and OF course the protected boot loader.. IT will take some very extreme hacks to just get it installed .then there is the whole drive thing people are talking about.Thou many tegra devices shares alot of hardware. and there is a huge chance that this device could have the same hardware as in camera bluetooth gps and so on as the w500. im almost Positive its the same with the camera and bluetooth . as i have a acer and a gateway notebook that share these same common hardware chip type devices the chinon (i think is proper spelling) for cam . the iconia has this cam chip as well .
if you factor all of this together.. Someone would really have to want it VERY BAD.. or microsoft will have to do alot of testing with ACER .
the short answer is .. FLIP A COIN WILL Bring just as good answeres until its out in beta..

An answer from Acer technical support
I ask gently to the technical support if Windows 8 Will be ported to the Iconia Tab A501 and the answer was really short ...
NO
So, if some people work on it to build one for us, we will have it. Other else, too bad

ArtSooby said:
I ask gently to the technical support if Windows 8 Will be ported to the Iconia Tab A501 and the answer was really short ...
NO
So, if some people work on it to build one for us, we will have it. Other else, too bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, isn't that what we said already? Why is it that hard to believe?
Win8ARM will not be sold separately, it can only come preinstalled. Secondly, Microsoft is only allowing it on fully locked-down devices; no open bootloaders for you. Thirdly it'll be very hard to even get admin access because Win8ARM doesn't allow sideloading; all and every single application must come from the Windows Store. No, you cannot run or install stuff from USB or Flash or network shares. All these things considering it'll be a wonder if someone can even copy the ROM successfully, let alone make it run on a device which doesn't have Secure Boot.
Short answer: NO, A500 WILL NOT GET WIN8.

A slight taste of the Near future .
WereCatf said:
Yes, isn't that what we said already? Why is it that hard to believe?
Win8ARM will not be sold separately, it can only come preinstalled. Secondly, Microsoft is only allowing it on fully locked-down devices; no open bootloaders for you. Thirdly it'll be very hard to even get admin access because Win8ARM doesn't allow sideloading; all and every single application must come from the Windows Store. No, you cannot run or install stuff from USB or Flash or network shares. All these things considering it'll be a wonder if someone can even copy the ROM successfully, let alone make it run on a device which doesn't have Secure Boot.
Short answer: NO, A500 WILL NOT GET WIN8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OVER The past 10 years i have been saying. been protesting. that eventually that if this locked device and embedded software is not stopped with laws .All electronic devices will end up with a very short end of life from manufacturers. Well folks its here. If Microsoft does the above. Well even they will push minor but much needed updates like security fixes on old devices devices and make them OBSOLETE much sooner by not supporting new much needed technology to keep devices viable..
This by the way Microsoft has been two faced from MS . there statement is ( THe manufacture has a choice rather to lock a device or not but they believe the end use should have a right to choose what os to run on there device. They say in this statement they are confident everyone will choose ms software ) This statement i disagree with . the only way to protect our right to have unlocked devices is to take it to the COURTS. But with all the recent activity about piracy this is a fight that will Be very hard and a long battle. EMBEDED SYSTEMS IS THE FUTURE AND WILL COST CUTTING EDGE CONSUMERS BILLIONS. Someone very good with web development start a TRUE WEBSITE TO PROTEST THIS.. many will join in and make this fight start now before its to late..
YES The above sounds like a conspiracy just do some research then post your opinion . Sorry op of this is off topic but its kinda related..

erica_renee said:
there statement is ( THe manufacture has a choice rather to lock a device or not but they believe the end use should have a right to choose what os to run on there device.
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Actually, you're slightly incorrect there; Microsoft says that only about PCs, ie. PCs must have Secure Boot enabled, but the manufacturer can decide whether or not to allow end-users to disable that. But on ARM devices Secure Boot MUST be enabled and there must be absolutely no way for end-users to disable that or the manufacturer won't be allowed to sell Windows 8.

WereCatf said:
Actually, you're slightly incorrect there; Microsoft says that only about PCs, ie. PCs must have Secure Boot enabled, but the manufacturer can decide whether or not to allow end-users to disable that. But on ARM devices Secure Boot MUST be enabled and there must be absolutely no way for end-users to disable that or the manufacturer won't be allowed to sell Windows 8.
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YES you are Totally correct. Sorry .. . either way Its bad news for the consumer.Giving manufactures this ability

Microsoft had Windows 7 working on ARM tablets 2 years ago. They are obviously looking at this potential market.

WereCatf said:
Yes, isn't that what we said already? Why is it that hard to believe?
Win8ARM will not be sold separately, it can only come preinstalled. Secondly, Microsoft is only allowing it on fully locked-down devices; no open bootloaders for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while I don't doubt the A50x will not see Win8, I do have to say... What Microsoft WANTS and what we the users DO seldom go hand in hand

Nope
I can't understand why people even think that this could be possible? the ONLY chance you'd see WinRT running on A500 is that m$ used it as a development platform...like HTC HD2 got wp7. Also, you need someone inside to leak the test OS....
Porting an ARM OS it's all about proper drivers, considering the ARM version and SOC design are somehow on the same gen. Nobody is insane enough to try and port a CLOSED OS. Even if it wasn't closed tight, porting and tweaking drivers is a hell of a job...just look at Android ( a Linux based, open source OS), how hard is to get rid of bugs because manufacturers like to keep the drivers closed source.
Also, it is imperative for MS,in order to get a chance in tablet market, to have a close-to- flawless OS,just like IoS, where the bugs are scarce. getting this job done requires at least two big choices to be made. You can only do that by completely opening the whole OS and hardware, therefore rely on a full pool of devs< nobody's choice> or you can do it by having clearly drawn/ restricted hardware devices, like WP7 phones and IOS devices.
I don't believe in locked down BLs, but I see no way that an Android native device will ever run WinRT.

It will of course happen, but it will take tremendous work to do. This always happens to an allegedly locked down OS... case in point- Hackintoshs where people install OSX onto a PC. People were even putting Android onto old WinMo handsets.
But you inevitably end up with a device that doesn't work as well as the original. Drivers were mentioned, plus there's being off the update/patch path, and plain & simple bugs that always crop up.
tl;dr: Yes, expect it. No, it won't work well.

Sideloading Apps on WP8

Hello guys,
I'm glad to write the first post in this section.
We've all seen the Microsoft Windows Phone Summit this morning (evening) and had to notice, that they've focused on an "Complete Security Platform". Due to their "Enterprise Ready - Fundamentals", they implemented a Secure Boot and Bitlocker Encryption.
This will be very good for all of you, who are depending on a phone, that doesen't share all it's data if it's getting stolen etc.. But those of you, who built application for customization or any further experience, will get stuck.
I'd really like to discuss these news with you.
(Is the microSD support a hint for a sideloading possibility?)
It has already been hard from an interop to a full unlock for the existing devices. The Lumia 900 is up to now unaccessible...
Will this be a disadvantage in comparison to the Android strategy?
All comments are welcome!!!
Titus

This is still all brand new, so I imagine later that someone will be provided with a prototype of some sort and may be able to answer those questions? I think we should start a donation for the pioneers of homebrew on WP so we can get something good done =)
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Some pages state that there will be sideloading capabilities. I don't see those happen unless Microsoft is pretty sure that those can't be used to deploy Warez. Also companies will be able to deploy their own software so there has to be an alternate way to deploy software aside from the Marketplace.
But an official side load option would amount to pretty much the same as a current Developer unlock and deeper going functionality as what is provided by Interop/Full-Unlocks won't be available that way.
It is going to be interesting to get around those as the NT Kernel is likely to be a harder nut to crack than whatever Microsoft threw together on top of CE6 for WP7.

StevieBallz said:
Some pages state that there will be sideloading capabilities. I don't see those happen unless Microsoft is pretty sure that those can't be used to deploy Warez. Also companies will be able to deploy their own software so there has to be an alternate way to deploy software aside from the Marketplace.
But an official side load option would amount to pretty much the same as a current Developer unlock and deeper going functionality as what is provided by Interop/Full-Unlocks won't be available that way.
It is going to be interesting to get around those as the NT Kernel is likely to be a harder nut to crack than whatever Microsoft threw together on top of CE6 for WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. It will be difficult to break and it may take some time, but good thing we have some awesome people that are devoted to making it happen

hack is possible
I think were looking at this from the wrong perspective. The App developers for Windows 8 Metro will be key in the implementation of hacking the Windows 8 phone. As Microsoft stated, this phone 8 will work harmoniously with 8 metro.
Windows 8 Metro is comprised of at least 80% HTML5 coded APPS. HTML5 has huge advantages that have been exploited before in the past.
So, If Windows phone 8 is comprised of similar HTML5 code. I'm sure developers will be able to comprise a boot hack to enable sideloading.
:good:

Shaggykjb said:
I think were looking at this from the wrong perspective. The App developers for Windows 8 Metro will be key in the implementation of hacking the Windows 8 phone. As Microsoft stated, this phone 8 will work harmoniously with 8 metro.
Windows 8 Metro is comprised of at least 80% HTML5 coded APPS. HTML5 has huge advantages that have been exploited before in the past.
So, If Windows phone 8 is comprised of similar HTML5 code. I'm sure developers will be able to comprise a boot hack to enable sideloading.
:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't say a boot hack could be seen anytime soon due to bitlocker and secure boot.
Have you seen any exploits on the current Windows 8 through HTML5? Since Microsoft's implementations of ANYTHING are always different (Even when they say it is compliant), I would imagine that the HTML5 on W8 won't have the same exploits. I'm thinking it will be quite difficult, but I wouldn't say impossible. That's why I think we need the current WP7 hackers or even the Android hackers in on this... The ones that know and understand the low-level aspects of x86 and ARM to be able to know what is going on behind the scenes and try to get around it. Given that a good bit of the second gen windows phones still aren't able to be interop-unlocked and sideloaded, I am sure Microsoft has patched the ways those backdoors in w8 and wp8.

As so much Malware was installed through IE previously Microsoft did a great deal of work to harden it against Exploits. But furthermore it would only be the first step to find a vulnerability in the browser or an HTML5-App.
IE itself is run in it's own OS compartment which runs below regular user rights. So if code gets run in the Browser context it effectively can't do very much. This is one of the reasons why desktop exploits started to rely more heavily on Flash and Adobe Reader Bugs (those plugins ran on user privileges).
The HTML5-Apps are most likely to execute in the least priviledged chamber separated from each other very much alike to the way WP7s Silverlight Apps are isolated from each other.
Given that I guess it will need people who understand the system architecture pretty well to crack it open. The easiest vector for getting Homebrew Apps on most likely is the LOB (Line of Business)-App support.

Even if you were to find an exploit, it's highly doubtful that it will give you anything. WP8 is with UEFI Secure Boot something entirely new in that aspect, in that it's likely to see a full bottom-up chain of trust. You'd likely need to break UEFI itself to get any binaries persistently with elevated privileges. If the UEFI firmware is not upgradable on the device (for instanced burned on the chip) the protection is unlike for current phones theoretically perfect.
Of course, it remains to be seen in what extend WP8 will validate signatures, but if say any elevated code needs signing, then a permanent full/root unlock is very unlikely to achieve.
Hard SPL unlocks as they're seen with the Titan and Radar will also be a matter of the past with WP8.

TitusO said:
Hello guys,
I'm glad to write the first post in this section.
We've all seen the Microsoft Windows Phone Summit this morning (evening) and had to notice, that they've focused on an "Complete Security Platform". Due to their "Enterprise Ready - Fundamentals", they implemented a Secure Boot and Bitlocker Encryption.
This will be very good for all of you, who are depending on a phone, that doesen't share all it's data if it's getting stolen etc.. But those of you, who built application for customization or any further experience, will get stuck.
I'd really like to discuss these news with you.
(Is the microSD support a hint for a sideloading possibility?)
It has already been hard from an interop to a full unlock for the existing devices. The Lumia 900 is up to now unaccessible...
Will this be a disadvantage in comparison to the Android strategy?
All comments are welcome!!!
Titus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think if memory card access and file access as in symbian and android is available in windows 8 then we can sideload apps if not its impossible as inh lumia 900

vickylance said:
i think if memory card access and file access as in symbian and android is available in windows 8 then we can sideload apps if not its impossible as inh lumia 900
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have removable SD card support and can install applications to it. However, Microsoft stated that sideloading is only available for enterprises for a (nominal) fee. Meaning, it's highly likely that the phone will check signatures on all applications, including those on the SD card and you won't be able to run them otherwise. (actually WP7 does this already - if your devel unlock expires and the phone relocks, all unsigned apps will not run anymore)

ZetaZynK said:
However, Microsoft stated that sideloading is only available for enterprises for a (nominal) fee.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you got any source for Microsoft anouncing a fee per device to allow this. To my knowledge not much is yet announced in that regard. We know that there will be a cloud based solution for Management/Deployment (most likely inTune) and an on premise one.
According to CNet Asia a Microsoft Employee during Technet told them that SD-Card installation meant installation from SD-Card instead of App-Installation to the SD-Card (see here: http://asia.cnet.com/apps-cannot-be-installed-to-microsd-cards-on-wp8-62217133.htm)

The latest rumor is that WP8 will include TPM chips on all handsets. Thus will drive added hardware security to the firmware. I am feeling very skeptical that WP8 will be rootable as a result. I have a TPM system in my Win 8 laptop and it is damned secure.
Sent from my Kindle Fire running ICS

StevieBallz said:
Have you got any source for Microsoft anouncing a fee per device to allow this. To my knowledge not much is yet announced in that regard. We know that there will be a cloud based solution for Management/Deployment (most likely inTune) and an on premise one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm, I believed I had read this, but seems you're correct. Not sure where I believed to have done so right now.
kenikh said:
The latest rumor is that WP8 will include TPM chips on all handsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TPM is not the problem here - secure boot is. Considering Microsoft announced secure boot as part of the WP8 announcement, it's kind of likely that all devices will ship it.
Secure boot and a TPM both can deliver a trusted boot path, but with significant differences in the execution. With a TPM you store a key and Platform Context Registers (PCRs) on the module - if the PCRs mismatch then some part of the configuration was altered which is likely indicating a breach of trust in the boot path. With Secure Boot, one or more vendor generated keys (and not a self-generated one, like on a TPM)are stored in the system's firmware. If the boot loader is not signed by one of those keys, the device refuses to boot. This means that you can't replace the boot loader with custom code (as you do with for instance a HSPL). In a TPM-based scenario, the user can re-assign TPM ownership, Secure Boot has no such concept.
Note: x86 PCs will come with Secure Boot too, soon. However, MSFT requires ARM devices to have these keys assigned by the OEM and requires the manufacturer to allow changing the keys or disabling Secure Boot - for x86, they require the opposite, a PC without an option to add your own keys or to disable secure boot would fail the Windows 8 hardware certification.

If you come across the information again please let us know. There seems to be some confusion on the SD card topic (WinSuperSite reported differently).
As for secure boot and the TPM: if Microsoft decides to make CustomROMs hard the best course of action seems to emulate the "Enterprise Marketplace" given the assumption that those won't user Microsoft certificates but instead company certificates (which could be installed by the user similarily to the Exchange server certificates today). But we'll have to wait and see how that gets implemented in the end.
PS: Just found the following on Microsofts Windows Phone Developer Blog
LOB app deployment – Many enterprises understandably want to keep their line-of-business (LOB) apps in-house, controlling how they get published and deployed. In Windows Phone 8, we support several new channels for deploying LOB apps to enterprise devices, including installing from a website, SharePoint, or email.
Click to expand...
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Sounds pretty much like sideloading might be a lot easier then we think it is.

Here is the problem with this... We're going to see DRM to the max. This has a chance of ruining the experience, just look at Apple recently. Also side-loading could be bad for the OS as look at Google with the possible Botnet + Trojans.
More importantly as a Dev, I fear more than anything, my code will be stolen, even if I Obfuscate the XAP. I rather my App be taken than my coding be compromised.

lseidman said:
Here is the problem with this... We're going to see DRM to the max. This has a chance of ruining the experience, just look at Apple recently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft ruins the experience for WP7s even more imho. There's really a lot of essential stuff that unlocked WP7s can do, but that stock WP7 is unable to do.
lseidman said:
Also side-loading could be bad for the OS as look at Google with the possible Botnet + Trojans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This can be easily worked around: If they just made developer unlocks free (keeping the same deployment system as is), that would make it near to impossible for malware to spread.
lseidman said:
More importantly as a Dev, I fear more than anything, my code will be stolen, even if I Obfuscate the XAP. I rather my App be taken than my coding be compromised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...and this is why I believe WP8 will have security measures against abuse of that private app deployment feature. Also, XAPs are not even badly protected right now.

Just for fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSnkWzZ7ZAA
He uses WP7 on 1:50

THE most informative thread on the WP8 section hands down....all u guys...BIG thanx for all the info...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

This information is kind of making me question whether I really want to switch from Android to WP8. Anyone having used both android and WP8 want to share their thoughts? I know WP7/8 is closed similar to iOS but I think I'd like to atleast be able to sideload apps.

devize said:
This information is kind of making me question whether I really want to switch from Android to WP8. Anyone having used both android and WP8 want to share their thoughts? I know WP7/8 is closed similar to iOS but I think I'd like to atleast be able to sideload apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stick with Android. Windows phone will not be developer friendly. This is my biggest problem with windows phone. The whole works out of the box experience really doesn't work when the software is young and lacking basic functionality . There is barely anything you can do with wp7 right now and winp8 is supposed to be even more locked down
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Petition to Microsoft to allow jailbreaking

Hi all.
Haven't seen this topic yet so I thought I'd introduce it. Has a petition ever been sent directly to Microsoft to allow jailbreaking and development of apps in a Cydia like store. I'm positive this would increase the popularity of wp8. There are are so many little things like decreasing the interval for updating live tile, and creating playlists on the phone itself. Widgets would also be nice. I just got a 920 and like it a lot. I was using launcher8 on my gn2 before and that launcher allowed widgets on tiles, more rectangular tile options etc.

Are you really think that Microsoft or somebody else care about these petitions?

Useless guy said:
Are you really think that Microsoft or somebody else care about these petitions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if enough people sign, then yes I do. I'm convinced that many iOS and android users would try a windows phone. There would be far more developers making apps also.

Jailbreaking will never be allowed on windows phone becuase Microsoft wants to win over the business sector. One of the reason the secure boot was implemented was because of businesses complaining about security on WP7.
Besides, there aren't really BIG things to get from jailbreaking, other than useless things some individuals care about. the vast majority of WP8 users are happy with their phones, plus most of the things you are asking (like adding playlists on the phone), will be supported eventually.
Lowering the interval for live tiles is a really bad idea btw.
If microsoft ever allows access to the file system, there will be no need for anything else: developers will pick it up from there and do their thing.

Ain't ever going to happen. Ms is bent over backwards by OEMS and carriers
Sent from my Arc using xda app-developers app

we need to start a kickstarter or offer a bounty on xda
I am sure if we started a bounty or kickstarter and rightfully paid one of the hackers to jailbreak wp8 they could get the job done a lot sooner
so how shall we go about this?
I am ready to offer my contribution

noelito said:
I am sure if we started a bounty or kickstarter and rightfully paid one of the hackers to jailbreak wp8 they could get the job done a lot sooner
so how shall we go about this?
I am ready to offer my contribution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still won't happen dude. I don't know but there seems to be some sort of aversion to WP by all the devs. The iPhone/iPad community has a number of devs piling over eachother to bring out the "next best way to JB". Android, I don't even need to get started. Other OSs too will fall in place soon. But what keeps the devs away from WP is a bit of a mystery to me.
BTW, I hope you know what happened to the kids that jailbroke the first Gen WP devices. They got hired by MS and were given a T shirt, if my memory is good.
So... that's that.

It's hilarious how you people believe that is easy to exploit WP8, Devices that use it have Secure Boot and Bitlocker so exploiting the boot process is practically impossible, exploiting on app-level is also hard as all apps run over a sandbox and the user has no administrator privileges so you can't use the sandbox exploitation available for Windows RT.
Plus there's overall no appeal for hacking it other than it runs over NT.

I think we should do it, there is nothing to loose, but it shouldn't be for jail breaking but for allowing file system access similar to Windows RT

Everybody can try to found a exploit.
If somebody will have luck, he will be the man....
But like people here say...
Its very very hard!
Sent from my GT-I8750 using Board Express

It's better for Microsoft (in the long run) that the OS will not be jailbroken: Jailbroken devices can install pirated applications, and pirated applications makes application developers angry.
Currently, app devs have no choice but to develop their applications to the 2 major OSs out there (iOS and Android), and know that in some point it is quite likely that people who jailbreak their devices can install pirated copies of their applications.
In the long run, as WP would start gaining major market share, application developers would be more keen to focus their development for WP as they'd know their property could not be pirated (if, supposedly, WP will remain unhacked).
This is of course only hypothetical - there's no protection which is made by men and cannot be hacked by men, and I'm more than sure that the more user-base and interest WP gains, the more likely is that someone would find a loophole in the OS and it'd be jailbroken...
And maybe not

Thread moved to General

I am as well very certain that Microsoft will not allow for Jailbreaking of the devices. They have some programs that will get you a free dev account to develop on top of the Plattform but they don't Support changes to the Plattform itself. If you want to make your Point about giving Devs certain APIs go to wpdev.uservoice.com and Support them with your votes.
As for jailbreaking WP: I'm sure it can be done because in the end: techniques exist to exploit basically everything but as was already said: Microsoft isn't making it easy.

StevieBallz said:
I am as well very certain that Microsoft will not allow for Jailbreaking of the devices. They have some programs that will get you a free dev account to develop on top of the Plattform but they don't Support changes to the Plattform itself. If you want to make your Point about giving Devs certain APIs go to wpdev.uservoice.com and Support them with your votes.
As for jailbreaking WP: I'm sure it can be done because in the end: techniques exist to exploit basically everything but as was already said: Microsoft isn't making it easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may be possible, but as for now they have closed damn near every hole we could think of. I'd say the only way we can hope for SOME progress is if we can exploit the root certificate and policies somehow. I know GoodDayToDie had a few good potential ideas. It's not that the device NEEDS to be jailbroken, we need to be given more trust. I feel as if Microsoft automatically feels like we will screw everything up so it's being our overprotective mother instead. We all know what happens when you are too overprotective to those you care about.....
With that said, if we can just be given a LITTLE more freedom.. That's all I ask for. I don't think we would have to worry about any type of malware since the App Hub process is smart enough to give me the red X if I'm trying to call MessageBox.Show() from a background task.
/endrant.

What if we paid you the bounty?
Sent from my SGH-T899M using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

iOS is certified afaik for government use, so the business security issue is specious. Not everybody will hack their device anyway.

There are different levels of security certifications, similarily to Mil-Spec Standards that exist for a lot of different criteria. Allowing people to do more with their devices isn't really at the core of Microsoft's concerns here. They don't try to push it though as they want applications in the Store and not on the web. Piracy is likely to play a role here too.
As for a bounty to make a JailBreak happen - it might be an incentive for certain developers to start looking into it. With WP7 the way most of the time was to hack the Bootloader and then flash a custom ROM to allow for additional access. With WP8 people might need to look into other ways in given that Secure Boot is likely to be a very hard nut to crack. Given that the original Jailbreak for WP7 relied on custom certificates it's likely that Microsoft invested there to close this off better but it's of course still worth investigating.
The more important part in the end would be to get Microsoft to make more available through the official APIs. They are extending those and this has made more functionality available every time they did a major update to the OS (Mango, Apollo).
Another point to note is that native interop is now part of the regular SDK. It's therefore likely that native APIs will be better protected against accesses from unauthorized Apps than they have been in WP7 (where the problem was getting native code to run at all).

RCranium666 said:
if enough people sign, then yes I do. I'm convinced that many iOS and android users would try a windows phone. There would be far more developers making apps also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying to be negative but I don't think the would care. On their won suggestion site (http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions/suggestions/2281201-custom-sounds-for-sms-mms-email-notifications-e) the haven't even responded to the 40,000 + petitions that people have been voting for 2 years for custom MMS\SMS; something that is so easy to do.

Thanks for everyone's responses. I just went back to my gn2. I found too many compromises in wp8. The funny thing is, I use a wp8 launcher on android and it's much more versatile than wp8 itself. The l920 was also a disappointment. I'm no stranger to phone cameras and I was rarely able to take a good picture with it. I like the l920's design better than the gn2, but not much else.

Thoughts: The WP hacking scene after W10?

Hey Everyone!
I normally don't really like to do these type of threads but I'm genuinely curious what everyone thinks will happen to the WP hacking scene once Windows 10 hit and Windows Phone and "Big Windows" becomes one. We've had some pretty good success with Windows Phone 8 and 8.1, I'm looking foreword to see what happens post Windows 10.
Happy Hacking!

TheInterframe said:
Hey Everyone!
I normally don't really like to do these type of threads but I'm genuinely curious what everyone thinks will happen to the WP hacking scene once Windows 10 hit and Windows Phone and "Big Windows" becomes one. We've had some pretty good success with Windows Phone 8 and 8.1, I'm looking foreword to see what happens post Windows 10.
Happy Hacking!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who knows. I never seen new WP10 build XD

It is interesting that there was no leak of phone version ;D
If someone want there is some xaps from me of nokia apps (like extras+info, screen control, audio control etc., everything unpacked )
Sorry for speed of download
and faster OneDrive:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=60A67CB739CC5A8!147787

Well I like my low end lumia 635 and the several hundred app's that I got deployed on it. So I for one will not take the plunge and update until I can do the same thing with win 10. I do however want to update but why if it's going to kill my enjoyment. And Then theres the big question will we be able to hack or mod this new os?.

I am pretty sure that hacking the Windows 10 Core will be way more interesting than hacking Windows Phones. Why? Because there is one unified core for Windows, Windows "Mobile" (RT / Phone), possibly the xbox and the IoT.

In most meaningful ways, that's already the case. There are significant differences between the version of NT on the phone and the one that powers a desktop PC, but most of them come down to making the phone's hardware requirements lower and not having any traditional full-trust user software. For example, it's already theoretically possible to use most Win8 exploits on WP8, but they usually aren't very practical because the exploit expects higher privileges than a WP8 can get, or aren't very effective because the level of privilege you gain is much lower than an equivalent action on a Windows PC would get you.
As for the hacking scene in general, a lot of it is going to come down to how locked down WP10 is. If Microsoft continues its recent trend of being aggressively anti-hacker even when that also means being anti-user (see, for example, the whole Windows RT fiasco) then WP10 could simply fail to garner much interest from the hacker crowd - we love a challenge, but at some point we lose interest in commercially supporting such a platform. On the other hand, if they continue making pro-user changes that also positively benefit hackers, such as allowing apps to be installed to the SD card, then WP10 could end up very interesting indeed! WP8.0 was a less-interesting hacking target than WP7.5, and 7.5 was less interesting than 7.0, but WP8.1 is arguably more interesting than 8.0; what we lost in the ability to do capability unlocks, we probably gained (and more) in the various SD card tricks.

Honestly speaking, I don't see WP becoming anywhere near as interesting as Android unless Microsoft AT LEAST allows sideloading without requiring a dev license.
The status quo means that ALL of the more interesting apps (that is, interesting to a power user) will never run on the platform, because Microsoft would never allow them to exist.
I likewise believe that Windows will continue to be a lackluster mobile platform. The problem is it will never garner decent word of mouth sales. A lot of people these days make their buying choices based on what their geek friend might tell them, and most geeks aren't going to be interested in a platform that is so rigid that you can't do a whole lot with it unless Microsoft had already thought of it and explicitly permitted it.
If they put a fee behind it, any fee at all, then they're permanently going to be relegated to being no more popular than having a BREW license was back in the feature phone days.

Coming from Android (possibly)

I'm looking at the 950XL as it seems to have all the specs of the Nexus 6P but also includes USB 3.1, which is very important to me (I currently have a Note 3 which needs upgrading).
Project Astoria quite interests me; can you use any Android App with this, or just certain ones?
One thing I like about Android is the ability to flash ROMs; I don't think there's anything like this with Windows is there?
(Slightly dodgy topic to talk about) On Android I can just search for an app adding the word 'apk' on Google and download it for free. Is there anyway to do this on Windows?
I used to run Windows Mobile and before that Windows CE, before switching to Android

I just saw your question. Here is some of what I know. As of right now there is an app called 'bluestack' that allows you to run apks as if on android with google services this is a win 8 app though.
There are plus' and minus' here.
1. The feature that makes what you that interested in are win universal apps. That announced by MS is supposed to be repackaged Android apks and converted to universal apps. They then would use Windows services. (a minus or a plus depending on preferences)
2. Blue stack (and its alternatives)may need to be updated to a win 10 universal app. The biggest upside to the 950/xl are that dual booting maybe possible. And a full emulation is possible almost like having 2 phones in one. I say that because of how windows runs or promises to run. With win10 it should be a hackers/tinkerers/dev dream. Leading to more of the apps you may want to port over.
3. Porting maybe possible with the tools MS provide. You maybe able to repackage apks on your own into win10 universal apps.
4.this is the last thing. You maybe able to enjoy 3rd party win10 apps. There are alternatives to twitter for example on windows but no actual Twitter app which some say are better than Twitter's actual app. Also some reporters have said that microsoft are offer to build apps(official) for companies like Twitter and then hand it over to them and they then take over maintenance. But that hasn't worked so far.
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

Many thanks for your reply. I've been reading a lot, trying to get my head around the new Windows Phone experience. It seems vastly different from what I used to have on my HTC HD2, which was my last Windows Phone.
One app I use a lot and I find useful is Truecaller, it tells you who's calling, even if you don't have their number in your phone. I presume this needs some sort of integration with the OS. I wonder if Project Astoria offers this level of integration.

My last windows phone was also the HD2 and I've used android ever since. I recently bought a lumia so I could try windows 10 preview. There are a couple of things I miss:
- the ability to transfer files to/from my NAS through WiFi without having to go through a pc
- swipe keyboard doesn't work in some places, eg works in messaging but not in browser
- android .nomedia facility
- banking - my bank is HSBC and they don't have a windows app
If the 950x windows 10 version fixes the first two of these then that will be my next phone.

My banking app also isnt on WP10.
I also like to use DOSbox to play old games on my phone.
Also Torque for hooking up to cars ECU via a bluetooth OBD2 reader.
No Starbucks app
I also use my LG Gwatch to receive notification on my wrist at work. As Im not allowed to get my phone, this is a very very handy feature for me.
I think I'm too invested in Android right now. I am a real Windows 10 Phone wannabe though. I wish I could afford both the Nexus 6P and Lumia 950XL.

Windows Lumia 950xl check every check in the box for what i want in a smartphone on the hardware side... But my issues is that i know that you can port apps over but how many official apps from ios and android made it to the windows store. Once they have app they will have me as a new consumer

https://youtu.be/P2wKJK5cr3M
https://youtu.be/Eu3EMS4dvv8
Look at these vids, they can give you an idea of what to expect with w10 mobile
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

Hey folks,
I figured this thread would be a good place to ask since it already existed. A little background. I'm a heavily entrenched Android user since the Evo 4G days and have service with several telecoms and own several phones as well. I saw the new presentation and I was really impressed, however, I need some help to see if the switch is right for me.
1) I use Google Voice to manage all of my numbers and phones. I heard that Skype doesn't allow number Port In, however, does allow forwarding. Does anyone know if this is true? Why don't they allow number Port In? Is it coming in the future? Any creative solutions around this?
2) I don't own a P.C., so Continuum really intrigues me. I've always owned PlayStation and loved being able to stream my PlayStation to my Sony phones and play remotely. Would I be able to stream XBoxOne to my phone and use Continuum to play on a monitor? What about streaming to a T.V. for Netflix or other apps like that?
3) I'm really interested in turning my home "smart". I know that Android has a big IoT platform and it'll be great with NEST and the other things they have coming down the pipeline. What about Windows? Is there a platform available? What products support it? Can it all be phone controlled and do apps exist for them?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I'm sure there are others in my boat who might have similar questions.

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2015/09/18/elephone-vowney-dual-boots-android-and-windows-10-for-299/
Guys i thought this may also be useful to keep in mind. There maybe a US compatible version at some point.
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 02:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------
UserDemos said:
Hey folks,
I figured this thread would be a good place to ask since it already existed. A little background. I'm a heavily entrenched Android user since the Evo 4G days and have service with several telecoms and own several phones as well. I saw the new presentation and I was really impressed, however, I need some help to see if the switch is right for me.
1) I use Google Voice to manage all of my numbers and phones. I heard that Skype doesn't allow number Port In, however, does allow forwarding. Does anyone know if this is true? Why don't they allow number Port In? Is it coming in the future? Any creative solutions around this?
2) I don't own a P.C., so Continuum really intrigues me. I've always owned PlayStation and loved being able to stream my PlayStation to my Sony phones and play remotely. Would I be able to stream XBoxOne to my phone and use Continuum to play on a monitor? What about streaming to a T.V. for Netflix or other apps like that?
3) I'm really interested in turning my home "smart". I know that Android has a big IoT platform and it'll be great with NEST and the other things they have coming down the pipeline. What about Windows? Is there a platform available? What products support it? Can it all be phone controlled and do apps exist for them?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I'm sure there are others in my boat who might have similar questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So in theory you can do this with windows phone right now. remember one windows isn't anything new. windows 8.1 is on the xbox one. And you can use the pass through feature on any windows device. On windows 10, its all the same, even on mobile because on phone it is full windows running (just slightly different ui, right now if windows 10 on desktop is told its on an under 6inch screen it locks into mobile or atleast the apps do, per windows weekly). Even though it is mobile you could run full photo shop on the phone with a couple of hacks. The one issue is Windows doesn't run well on Arm processors snapdragon 810 and 808... Look out also for a zenfone 2 running Windows 10 mobile. Also the is some one hacking the zenfone to port windows 10.
My dream is for the test windows 10 mobile rom that was being tested on xiaomi mi4 could get ported.
Also microsoft has debated on creating a rom that's flashable to android devices. That helps them get the 1billion user goal. And also attract devs and hacking enthusiasts.
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

So this is full Windows 10? But on ARM?
Could I install and run any programs that I can install on my laptop then?
Does the phone have some kind of x86 to ARM translator?

No, it is not full Win10.
It only runs "universal" apps (the successor of the "metro" apps of windows 8/8.1/10)...

Truecaller is already available on win10 mobile. It shows info about who is calling but also can act as your call and text message spam filter, a feature I don't think they have on Android.
I broke my Icon unfortunately so can't post screenshots.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I'm in the same boat. The 950 checks all my boxes hardware wise, but I do think it'll be hard to switch.
What I am doing is getting a Lumia 640, pretty cheap from BB: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/at-t-go...lack/9231014.p?id=1219701750248&skuId=9231014
Figure that would be a good device to test everything out on and see if I can make the switch. And I could probably sell it in a few months to close to what I paid for it.

Indeed fantastic price.
If my 950 XL proves (too) good, I might get a cheapo previous model so that my wife also switches.
(and only keep my Z4 Tablet LTE - that is getting Marshmallow soon - to keep contact with Android)
I actually waited to the last minute if a really serious device comes out this year from Android and only three came "close but no cigar" (the others far behind including the Note5, a series I used to be a fan and they stupidly killed by turning to a fashion series like S series):
- LG V10. I don't like the little screen (mostly the awkward positioning and that is not AMOLED but is always on - which kind of defeats the concept) and I don't care about the two selfie cams. Also you make it tough. Why not water resistant (at least) also?
- Z5 Premium. I always liked the Z series, but they failed to really advance it and now you can even call it ugly. 4K for a non-4K ready world is just a nice selling bullet. You put a super-MP camers, with no OIS and a simple single LED flash. Goofy.
- Moto X Force. No biometrics at all? In 2015? (also I kind of fear Moto as a brand for years now)
Anyway... few more days to a month to see if we made the right choice.
Love my Windows 10 1511 update that has extras to support coexistense with Win 10 phone...
MSFT don't screw this.

I started with windows hacking until I bought a HTC evo 4g. I have had 4 nexus devices and currently on the nexus 6. When the 950xl becomes available i am ditching the 6 for windows again after several years of android. Just out grew android. It was fun buy going back to where it all started.

No, only universal apps are able to run on Arm and X86 Plattform. W10 is similar on Arm and X86 but all Apps / Programms has to do the step and create Universal Apps while also Microsoft seems to work on Phones which are based on X86 CPU.
So this is a first step into the future which will provide same stuff on Desktop, Tablet and Phones. While Android has no Desktop OS and Apple has IOS and MAC OS seperated, Microsoft did the next step to Melt all worlds together. Now it is on us to support this way and on them to work continously to improve the process.

olarf said:
No, only universal apps are able to run on Arm and X86 Plattform. W10 is similar on Arm and X86 but all Apps / Programms has to do the step and create Universal Apps while also Microsoft seems to work on Phones which are based on X86 CPU.
So this is a first step into the future which will provide same stuff on Desktop, Tablet and Phones. While Android has no Desktop OS and Apple has IOS and MAC OS seperated, Microsoft did the next step to Melt all worlds together. Now it is on us to support this way and on them to work continously to improve the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel windows mobile will make a come back.

tomzefi said:
I feel windows mobile will make a come back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree and i don't like the way Samsung is heading, no microsSD, removable battery etc.
MS is no Saint with privacy, but Google is ignoring us users more and more.
A bought a 950xl just a few days ago.
Having a Android device for years, this Lumia is fun, new etc.
Although i must say, the available / working apps is a bit....
Anyone has a working Tapatalk yet?

KeesStolk said:
Totally agree and i don't like the way Samsung is heading, no microsSD, removable battery etc.
MS is no Saint with privacy, but Google is ignoring us users more and more.
A bought a 950xl just a few days ago.
Having a Android device for years, this Lumia is fun, new etc.
Although i must say, the available / working apps is a bit....
Anyone has a working Tapatalk yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, apps, always been lacking there. I have a feeling that's gonna change. Windows phone hacking & development is coming back. I will hold on to my nexus and gonna get the 950xl

KeesStolk said:
Totally agree and i don't like the way Samsung is heading, no microsSD, removable battery etc.
MS is no Saint with privacy, but Google is ignoring us users more and more.
A bought a 950xl just a few days ago.
Having a Android device for years, this Lumia is fun, new etc.
Although i must say, the available / working apps is a bit....
Anyone has a working Tapatalk yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me, I used Sammy phones for some years now and it seems they lost the track more and more. For sure there is a need for more apps but its a bit a Chicken and Egg thing. If you ask Software companies they tell you that there are not enough Windows phones to make it worth to develop a APP and if you ask customers they tell you that there are not enough apps to make it worth buying a Windows Phone... Actually I see Windows Phones appear in more and more companies where they replace IPhones. ALso the Bridge Projects seems to be more promissing then the Astoria one. For us as WP users we must not care about as most good apps exist for IOS and ANdroid at the same time. If the porting from IOS work good, we will get a lot of apps soon. The rest is on Microsoft then, they have to motivate companies to create a lot of universal apps. Actually the 950/950XL seems to be the only phones with some inovation right now. Lets see end of 2016 where we are.
I forget to mention that there exist a Tapatalk app and it works. Not that good but it works and do the job.