Related
Anansky, with your experties and knowledge please look into the possibilities to run win2k5 on the magician. I am sure everyone here is willing to help in any way possible. YOU ARE OUR LAST HOPE!
Re: Once more, windows 2k5 ANANSKY HELP US!!!
andrew_sh said:
Anansky, with your experties and knowledge please look into the possibilities to run win2k5 on the magician. I am sure everyone here is willing to help in any way possible. YOU ARE OUR LAST HOPE!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it's worth to put a price on such desires I would have been happy to pay HTC for $$$ for an upgrade, but they appear to foolishly expect me to buy a new device (not happening, almost sold my unit on ebay but canceled the auction as it's still a good device). I'd personally pay someone 50 bucks if they got it up and working to an acceptable level. I'll pass the collection tray...
Yes, thats how we all feel. I'm sure our device is capable of running WM2k5 and that is what i can't understand. By the way, has anyone seen anansky recently?
andrew_sh said:
Yes, thats how we all feel. I'm sure our device is capable of running WM2k5 and that is what i can't understand. By the way, has anyone seen anansky recently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, and the Magician would have only just passed it's 6th month aniversary when it was announced it wasn't gettin WM2K5. Talk about planned obsolescence. And before anyone says it's only got 64MB ROM, HP announced that their model that has 64MB ROM *is* getting WM2K5 so it's clear that HTC just want to milk our wallets some more.
Sure, I wouldn't mind so much if the existing OS got a few things fixed and tidied up a bit but fat chance of that, the cash cow has already moved in. I'm not purchasing any more Pocket PC related heardware/software until this situation is sorted out (anyway, I've bought all the 3rd party apps I need now). I feel like any additional dollar I put into this market will only serve to support it's current structure and I have more principle than that. Of course, like I said, I am more than happy to pay for an upgrade, but I find it incredibly extravagent to fork out another small fortune for a new device. I'm not going to play ball, roll over, set, beg and pay at HTC's mercy Toshiba really alienated it's users over lack of upgrades before and it's interesting seeing companies continuing that trend because us geeks just keep on buying no matter what :roll:
Anyway, what is it exactly that everyone feels is needed that WM2K5 provides? For me it is a better dialing interface, I'm not particularly fussed about the non-volatile storage as the Magician has a good enough battery life to make charging a non-issue for me. Perhaps we should all start up various open source projects to improve WM2K3 to get ourselves better returns on our investments (hey, I guess that's what's been going on here for ages now anyway, hehe)? I've personally been eyeing off the dialer interface in WM2K5 and think it looks a lot more logically laid out for single handed operation.... Hmmmm.... nice project... :lol:
I just bought a magician to replace my XDA2 and i'm happy enough with WM2003SE (which i only just flashed to my XDA2) as it's stable and does everything I need. Bar some interface improvements WM2005 only seems to add NV storage to the arguement to upgrade and Sprite takes care of that problem for me now..
I think we will see WM2005 for the magician eventually anyway (unofficially) and i'm quite happy to keep my current (magician) device for 12 months until my contract runs out..
Correct me if i'm wrong but i've downloaded microsoft platform builder which supposingly creates a custom platform for a device. I'm trying to see all of its features but it seems pretty straight-forward. It allows you to add the components you like, the drivers you want. I think we could be able to use our current drivers. It then builds a .nk file that you upload to your device. I think this is the correct direction. If someone likes to help, download the platform builder (trial from microsoft) and post any comments here.
andrew_sh said:
Correct me if i'm wrong but i've downloaded microsoft platform builder which supposingly creates a custom platform for a device. I'm trying to see all of its features but it seems pretty straight-forward. It allows you to add the components you like, the drivers you want. I think we could be able to use our current drivers. It then builds a .nk file that you upload to your device. I think this is the correct direction. If someone likes to help, download the platform builder (trial from microsoft) and post any comments here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that will allow you to only build the CE 5.0 kernel. WM2k5 is a layer on top of that. Also, device drivers would be another issue entirely. I think it might be a bit job, but wait in hope that somebody can prove me wrong :lol:
If i experiment flashing different files to the magician. is there a possibility to destroy the bootloader? Are there any safeguards? How can somebody destroy the bootloader?
Hi all, I'm new to the Shift scene. After having read the whole 'Shift>Shift' subforum I can see that activity has petered off somewhat since this time last year. One page of threads used to last about half a month, now one page of threads gets us well over a month (I hope you can understand what I' trying to explain there). I plan on bringing together all the ROMs, Radios, Guides, etc into one thread that can hopefully be stickied like in the Xperia X1 forum (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=477801), because at the moment there doesnt seem to be anything like that here.
1)So out of the original members of the Shift project+others (names below):
a) Who still has their shift.
b) Who is still actively looking in to ways to improve it. I.E. at least once a week.
Looking on http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=375898 at post #18, it looks like the core members were:
ltxda
Olipro
Cmonex
PK
And some good contributors:
Thaihugo
Pawel062
Saiweb
2)Who were actually the official members of the Shift project?
3)Who else was involved in the Shift project?
4)What were the original goals and how many of the goals have been 'scored'? See below
5)Whats are the outstanding goals, i.e. full screen and SD Card in WM ?
6)With regards to 'full screen and SD Card in WM' how far did you get, and what ultimately stumped you?
7)How many Shifts did you buy with the donated money and whose got them now?
If there is anybody with a Shift purchased with the donation money who is not using it anymore, perhaps you could donate it too me so I can continue to try and unlock any more secrets this device holds.
I am now going to start reading the whole 'Shift>Shift upgrading etc.' sub forum starting at page 15 and working to today.
If anyone wants to help me correlate all the ROMs, Radios, Guides etc, any links would be helpful.
8)Does anybody know how many different ROMs and radios there are for the Shift?
Like I say im going to read up now but if someone already knows that would be helpful.
Coming back to question 4, I will give what I think were the goals. Please feel free to add or subtract goals :
a) Get SD card working in WM - Not done
b) Get WM fullscreen - Not done (Limit of MSM7200 is VGA)
c) Get the device HardSPL'd - Done
d) Create custom ROMs - Done
d) Get GPS working in WM side - Done
e) Get GPS working in Vista side - Done
f) See if HDD is upgradable - Done (it is)
g) See if RAM is upgradable - Done (it isnt upgradable)
h) Get mic working on WM - Done
i) Get wifi working in WM - not done
j) Get bluetooth working in WM - not done
The 'Shift Project' ground to a halt when newer, shinier toys came along.
I can't wait to see this project being active again. Right, there are hundreds of devices out there but Shift is still the only one which combines
windows (7/vista/xp) + wm + phone.
Honestly, I would try to answer something not too bitter. Let's put it mildly: The shift project is (has?) probably not working (ed?) anymore (way?) for the shift. They sure got the money, but never delivered. On the other side, any legitimate group trying to help was dead on arrival because of this. Every cluster of developer failed because the shift project was magicaly reapiring to promess a new development.
I would consider this "projects" as a request for a hardspl adaptation for a device. Anything else would have need some other efforts. I think we can be happy with the current possibilities, and move along with it.
Ahhh I see, well lets wait to see what Itxda and comnex have to say, maybe we can get this ol' baby fired up again!
It would just be nice to know where they got with thee SD card and fullscreen WM issue.
Dont give up , keep on trying to solve the sd card , bluetooth and the rest that is not done yet . U can do it . Just try n try again , u know u can do it , concentrate ...
thaihugo said:
Honestly, I would try to answer something not too bitter. Let's put it mildly: The shift project is (has?) probably not working (ed?) anymore (way?) for the shift. They sure got the money, but never delivered. On the other side, any legitimate group trying to help was dead on arrival because of this. Every cluster of developer failed because the shift project was magicaly reapiring to promess a new development.
I would consider this "projects" as a request for a hardspl adaptation for a device. Anything else would have need some other efforts. I think we can be happy with the current possibilities, and move along with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. money was spent on getting device, so it's not like we used it for our living or whatever
2. I don't understand some words, maybe typos? "reapiring", "promess"? please can you rephrase? thanks a lot.
2b. as for not delivering, I would disagree. we got a lot done, even if some of it was leaked by certain members before our group's release also, I can't vouch for what others said, but I never promised that BT or wifi even has a good chance for working.
3. anything else than the hardspl/radio/phone stuff is more work for sure. for example the WVGA mode enabling in ARM part works only half so far.
vinokirk said:
1)So out of the original members of the Shift project+others (names below):
a) Who still has their shift.
b) Who is still actively looking in to ways to improve it. I.E. at least once a week.
Looking on http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=375898 at post #18, it looks like the core members were:
ltxda
Olipro
Cmonex
PK
And some good contributors:
Thaihugo
Pawel062
Saiweb
2)Who were actually the official members of the Shift project?
3)Who else was involved in the Shift project?
4)What were the original goals and how many of the goals have been 'scored'? See below
5)Whats are the outstanding goals, i.e. full screen and SD Card in WM ?
6)With regards to 'full screen and SD Card in WM' how far did you get, and what ultimately stumped you?
7)How many Shifts did you buy with the donated money and whose got them now?
If there is anybody with a Shift purchased with the donation money who is not using it anymore, perhaps you could donate it too me so I can continue to try and unlock any more secrets this device holds.
I am now going to start reading the whole 'Shift>Shift upgrading etc.' sub forum starting at page 15 and working to today.
If anyone wants to help me correlate all the ROMs, Radios, Guides etc, any links would be helpful.
8)Does anybody know how many different ROMs and radios there are for the Shift?
Like I say im going to read up now but if someone already knows that would be helpful.
Coming back to question 4, I will give what I think were the goals. Please feel free to add or subtract goals :
a) Get SD card working in WM - Not done
b) Get WM fullscreen - Not done (Limit of MSM7200 is VGA)
c) Get the device HardSPL'd - Done
d) Create custom ROMs - Done
d) Get GPS working in WM side - Done
e) Get GPS working in Vista side - Done
f) See if HDD is upgradable - Done (it is)
g) See if RAM is upgradable - Done (it isnt upgradable)
h) Get mic working on WM - Done
i) Get wifi working in WM - not done
j) Get bluetooth working in WM - not done
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got your PM so I'm replying here now
1)
a) I have mine. love it! as for the others, see below
b) well, not once a week currently... :S
c) PK is pawel062. but he left windows mobile scene for iphone :cries: (he never got a shift, tho)
2) you got the "official" members right other than that
3) you got that right too
4) see project thread, but a quick sumup, HardSPL, radio unlocking, phone funct. unlocking, GPS, cooked ROMs, and the low level/hw hacks (WVGA, SD... the others only if possible). I guess other than hw hacks that's been done for the most part
5) yes, those two
6) WVGA half works, I can enable it, picture no good yet. I found SD was disabled in the bootloader where I saw evidence for use of it, no further news right now
7) Shifts: I have one from the project, Olipro too, ltxda got one, which he wanted to send to PK to cook for it but he left the project. I do not know what happened to that shift, as ltxda got distracted by the death of a family member. I'll ask him what's up with that. there is no other money left in the Shift account.
7b) as for sending it to you (ltxda's device), I'd like to know what sort of experience you got, what sort of goals you'd like to try and achieve
by experience I mean: coding experience (and what languages), low level driver experience, reverse engineering experience, etc... but then, I'd like to first know what goals you have in mind as well
8) I have a few radios, ROMs, if you mean stock ones, then not terribly many.
cmonex said:
I got your PM so I'm replying here now
6) WVGA half works, I can enable it, picture no good yet. I found SD was disabled in the bootloader where I saw evidence for use of it, no further news right now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cmonex
what about BT and WiFi? I was able to check the virtual COM ports for them and tried to enable them and noticed something was blocking it. Were they too disabled at the bootloader?
Thanks
--Ram--
Vinokirk sweet thnx for stirring up this part of the community.
Our Shift is a 1 off. Keep it, caress it, nurish it.
After the Chinese debacle (Someone having a too large ego and hoaxing about SD) nothing much happened above the surface.
My idea would be that everyone start sharing his findings for making SD , headset mike, and BT work (in respective order)
Like CMonex staed that the WM bootloader disables SD it seems. This seems new info and might spur others to action.
Shift project has delivered beyond expectation in the early days.
cmonex said:
I got your PM so I'm replying here now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cmonex! Many many thanks for your reply; your information is very valuable to me!
Yes I was devastated reading about Itxdas story, it was truly a tragedy and my heart goes out to him.
Personally my goals (in order) are:
1) SD card
2)'Personal calling' over BT or wired headset.
3) WVGA screen in WinMo
4) Cooking everything into a ROM
But I am very much a community person. If anyone has an idea they would like to see developed, I would try my darndest to make their wish come true!
I have some basic grounding in C++, Pascal (he he he), and Java. I have a friend and brother-in-law who are AMAZING programmers in many languages, so they will be my 'goto guys'.
I have in the past re-written a couple of drivers in windows, but that was a while ago and they weren't low level drivers.
I haven't officially reverse engineered something before, but I have taken loads of things apart to fix, so in a way I have been taking say a phone apart to find out what the problem is.
I have A-levels in Maths and Electronics (they are the UKs 16-18 yr old exams), but nothing at degree level.
I do however have experience with cooking. I have made a couple of my own ROMs for my Xperia X1.
But the main thing is, I have a passion for things like this, as you can see im asking a lot of questions, and posting in a few threads!! So with your guidance I'm sure I could deliver at least something! This would be a great first step into your world and I am really looking forward to getting the opportunity to do so
cmonex said:
2b. as for not delivering, I would disagree. we got a lot done, even if some of it was leaked by certain members before our group's release
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know, olipro and you weren't part of the shift project first, and they called you to the rescue. So again, I thing the shift project AFAIK, never released a think. They "rebranded" you as shift project because they didn't have a think to provide.
Also, I don't see the leaks you're talking about. Was the group about to release something? Do you mean your radio? Has it anything modified from a 1.27 radio? because otherwse, I think we are all doing the same job here, taking existing roms, modifyng files and releasing them. The trick is to find the right files, and I don't see where any work here is stealing or below somebody elses work. I don't think anybody took a rom from the shift project, modified it and claimed it as it's own.
lucid said:
Vinokirk sweet thnx for stirring up this part of the community.
Our Shift is a 1 off. Keep it, caress it, nurish it.
After the Chinese debacle (Someone having a too large ego and hoaxing about SD) nothing much happened above the surface.
My idea would be that everyone start sharing his findings for making SD , headset mike, and BT work (in respective order)
Like CMonex staed that the WM bootloader disables SD it seems. This seems new info and might spur others to action.
Shift project has delivered beyond expectation in the early days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) uh yeah I'm afraid it is going to be a one-off from HTC :'( and where is Thoth?? (Athena2) gee HTC really needs to get back on track for making the best usable devices
2) wish those chinese guys had shown more. this way it does seem a hoax.
vinokirk said:
cmonex! Many many thanks for your reply; your information is very valuable to me!
Yes I was devastated reading about Itxdas story, it was truly a tragedy and my heart goes out to him.
Personally my goals (in order) are:
1) SD card
2)'Personal calling' over BT or wired headset.
3) WVGA screen in WinMo
4) Cooking everything into a ROM
But I am very much a community person. If anyone has an idea they would like to see developed, I would try my darndest to make their wish come true!
I have some basic grounding in C++, Pascal (he he he), and Java. I have a friend and brother-in-law who are AMAZING programmers in many languages, so they will be my 'goto guys'.
I have in the past re-written a couple of drivers in windows, but that was a while ago and they weren't low level drivers.
I haven't officially reverse engineered something before, but I have taken loads of things apart to fix, so in a way I have been taking say a phone apart to find out what the problem is.
I have A-levels in Maths and Electronics (they are the UKs 16-18 yr old exams), but nothing at degree level.
I do however have experience with cooking. I have made a couple of my own ROMs for my Xperia X1.
But the main thing is, I have a passion for things like this, as you can see im asking a lot of questions, and posting in a few threads!! So with your guidance I'm sure I could deliver at least something! This would be a great first step into your world and I am really looking forward to getting the opportunity to do so
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I replied to your PM again the public part of that is, I've talked to ltxda about sending the Shift to you. he'll get back to me on that soon.
saiweb said:
cmonex
what about BT and WiFi? I was able to check the virtual COM ports for them and tried to enable them and noticed something was blocking it. Were they too disabled at the bootloader?
Thanks
--Ram--
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it needs more than virtual COM ports.
thaihugo said:
As far as I know, olipro and you weren't part of the shift project first, and they called you to the rescue. So again, I thing the shift project AFAIK, never released a think. They "rebranded" you as shift project because they didn't have a think to provide.
Also, I don't see the leaks you're talking about. Was the group about to release something? Do you mean your radio? Has it anything modified from a 1.27 radio? because otherwse, I think we are all doing the same job here, taking existing roms, modifyng files and releasing them. The trick is to find the right files, and I don't see where any work here is stealing or below somebody elses work. I don't think anybody took a rom from the shift project, modified it and claimed it as it's own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nono, of course I didn't mean anything like claiming a rom
Any progress / news ?
Not yet, I'm waiting to hear from ltxda. As soon as I get his Shift project Shift ill be able to start cooking a new ROM. And with the hep of cmonex and others, hopefully crack someof the other issues.
vinokirk said:
Not yet, I'm waiting to hear from ltxda. As soon as I get his Shift project Shift ill be able to start cooking a new ROM. And with the hep of cmonex and others, hopefully crack someof the other issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cant wait
some news???
My first post seemed kinds pushy, sorry about that.
So right now I'm looking for a few different peeps. Mostly just people who know or are in the process of learning Android, beta-testers, And somebody to update everything on the web (Twitter, The Website in a lot of areas, and maybe even youtube). If it sounds like something you'd like to do, then PM me and you're on the team or send an e-mail to [email protected] We'll probably update the current FroYo ROM then head straight to Gingerbread. Maybe in the future, a Gingerbread Sense ROM? Anyways, development will kickstart on the 20th, with or without a team.
Name: Infinimod Development
Website: http://www.infinimod.com/
Google Code: http://www.code.google.com/p/mintyfresh-roms
Thanks for reading and showing interest.
Soooo, anyways... this is the reason I havent replied to anyone who applied in a month in a half.
--------------------
Click to see original post.
Update - 1/8/11
ROM Development has been totally stopped for almost one and a half months now. This was not an intention of mine whatsoever. The reason behind everything is that my HTC Dream broke to a point where I could no longer develop on it, and being a new developer, I did not want to take any risks by releasing untested ROMs. Due to a lack of beta testers, all development was halted. The only reason I released v1.0.4 was because xillius200 kindly tested it for me and reported it stable (for the most part). So yesterday I talked with a guy I know who has a T-Mobile MyTouch 3G. The screen on his phone is entirely broken (LCD & Digitizer). He told me that he's going to be buying an iPhone off of Craigslist.com and that he'd give me the MyTouch 3G for free. So he gave me the phone and in the meantime he will be using my extra carrier unlocked Sony Ericcson w580i (lol) until he gets it. So I already ordered the parts (which cost me $60) and they'll arrive around January 17th-21st (most likely sooner) and I'll fix it and root it. So I plan on kickstarting development on the 20th. We'll (or I'll) probably update FigMint then head straight to Gingerbread. Maybe in the future, a Gingerbread Sense ROM? But I can't accomplish all of this alone, although I have the motivation. So anyone who wants to help, feel free to E-mail me at [email protected] For more info on becoming staff, check out the staff page. Also, in case you hav'nt noticed, this is now a .com domain, I'll be working on getting a few other cool things for the team, but a .com website is a good start. Anyways, until next time, cheers.
--------------------
Are you planning on making a rom like the MUIU roms? (Not exactly like that rom, but something like a complete change with the UI etc) or just a rom that is similar to CM and awsm is just added to it? (if so, might as well work with them)
I'm not trying to sound like an ass, I'm just giving you my opinion. It's hard to sense it when you read from the internet!
I really don't think this is worth it to be honest especially when you want everyone to have a G1 which is becoming really outdated. Most people with good programming knowledge have probably already moved on to newer devices. There really isn't a point in developing for a device like this anymore, (especially when you yourself don't even have the device) just my two cents. If you're doing it just to have fun, might as well work on something newer.
Well, I'm planning on buying a new G1 or MyTouch 3G this month so I have something until I get my EVO or whatevers out. The only thing broken on my G1 is the microSD reader and the screen has a crack. There is still a lot of development going on for the G1 and MyTouch allthough they are old phones. The bright side of them is that if your phone breaks you can buy a new one for really cheap. And having a G1 as a requirement (or 32b mytouch) isn't that bad, that's why it's posted in the G1 section because allmost everyone here has one. As for UI sure I'd like to change some things but that isn't until later, for now it's speed and functionallity. I see where you're coming from though.
Sent from my T-Mobile G1 using XDA App
Interesting... GTalk me, [email protected]
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk
I'm not trying to be mean here, but, this group will never really aspire with a dev rom for a device such as the G1. You are limited to so many things now and the community has pretty much seen it all by now. Many Community roms have been tried, and never really went anywhere. I just suggest you think this over before potentially wasting your time. I'm not trying to bring you down here, but I doubt this project will last very long. You can do it by all means for experience.
It might not make it anywhere, but then again, everyone has to start from somewhere. It may or may not be a very long project seeing how I'll be getting an EVO and a Google TV soon, and I have a super packed schedule and a life. But it's fun as a little side-hobby. It's not total dedication to making ROMs for the G1/Saphirre because if I spent 24/7 doing that then it would be a waste of time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that sure there's a hell of a lot of ROMs out there and sure they have Dev's who spend countless hours making changes to their ROM's, I'm not saying any names (Cyanogen ). But who cares. Why do you think people have ROM Flashing Disorder and what not, because "this ROM has this feature and one ROM has that feature" and "I like the way this one looks but it's really laggy". Why not just make a really chill dev team that has half of it consisting of people who are practically end-users, and finding out what people really want. Then relaxing and editing a ROM while drinking some coffee or eating some tacos, or even both 0_o. It's not a full-on community project unless you want it to be btw. And on the other side, it's a great learning expierience and can help aid people in the future XD.
Sent from my T-Mobile G1 using XDA App
infinimint said:
so, as the title says, i'm making a rom development team. Reason being is that: 1) i've always wanted to :d. 2) my g1 broke (i dropped it) and until i get a new phone i need some people to be my lab rats and test my (soon to be an "our") rom . 3) it's fun and it's a great learning experience.
I am located in california, us. Pst utc -8. I can only speak english. I consider myself a novice developer and i work with linux, mac, & windows. I know very little of c++ & java.
I need:
website updater: you optionally get to try the latest rom before anyone else. This is the easiest job of them all, all you have to do is update the blog, twitter, google code, and a few docs on google code. This altogether only takes 5-15 minutes to do.
novice beta testers: get to try the latest rom earlier than everyone else and give a basic what works and what doesn't. And maybe give suggestions of things that you or the end-user would like to see in new releases.
advanced beta testers: get to try the latest rom earlier than everyone else and give full detail reports on any bugs, errors, fc's, logs, etc. And possibly even list things causing other things to go wrong and possible fixes.
novice developers: get to try the latest rom earlier than everyone else and give app enhancements, ui enhancements, and fairly basic rom edits.
advanced developers: get to try the latest rom earlier than everyone else and write, edit, and troubleshoot code within the rom. You need to know at least some basic programming lanuguage, preferably java. You don't have to be cyanogen, but you need to know what you're doing if you know what i mean.
Spots left:
Website updater: 1
novice beta tester: 2
advanced beta tester: 2
novice developer: 2
advanced developer: 2
pm me with your application. You must have a htc dream (g1) unless you are a website updater, and must be able to speak english.
Application:
Name: (username)
position: (ex: Novice beta tester)
e-mail: (ex: [email protected])
time zone (location ex: Utc -8):
Instant messenger: (ex: [email protected])
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
中国用户表示毫无压力。
super bump 0_o
You still want help? I am available, currently on Neopeek-Team also with little bit (little bit..) of experience.
Hey dude, email me at [email protected], I'm a graphic designer willing to lend a hand.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App
PM sent. I'm not extremely Android savvy, but I'm willing to do the website part of things and maybe do some alpha/beta testing.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App
Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946
There is currently work being done by jt, birdman, and the other skew of developers trying to develop a working AOSP version of 2.2/2.3. The biggest struggle that they have encountered was the RIL (Radio Interface Layer) binaries. Samsung produced some bogus complex proprietary binaries with no properly working source code. Because this phone is CDMA and not GSM, we can't simply use galaxy s files.
Anyways, the point is that there is work being done to bring it to our phone. They have a working AOSP 2.1 that is currently in alpha stage. Jt basically built his own RIL for this phone to get it working.
If this RIL works, we may end up with 2.3 sooner than later.
eulipion2 said:
Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
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You obviously have not searched hard enough, as this has been discussed in many places. I would suggest you start by searching this forum (edit: or seeing the links and posts above).
I will say, however, that recent achievements by (edit: the developers mentioned above) have made your suggestion quite possible. If you want to get a taste of what is to come, see the aosp alpha sticky located in the development section. The rom still has bugs, but it is a giant step forward for the Fascinate.
Sent from my Galaxy-S Fascinate
Florynce said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946
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^^^^^
10char
I must add/point out that the work these guys are doing could easily pave the way for Cyanogenmod- and other well-featured roms to be compiled/ported and used on Fascinate as well.
I've read the above links, but they didn't really quite answer my question. I guess I'm wondering why a Linux-based OS isn't acting/being treated like a Linux-based OS.
Let's say I go out and buy a new computer today. I want to put Linux on it. I get the machine home, download my distro of choice and make an install cd. As I'm installing, I configure the installation either for my specific hardware or I can use a generic profile if my hardware isn't listed.
Now say a new version of the Linux kernel comes out. I can upgrade without having to wait for a version for my hardware. Or if I install MyDistro v1 when I get my machine, and MyDistro v2 comes out the next day, I don't have to wait for someone to develop a version to work with my hardware.
So my question is more of a why can't we upgrade our distro like other Linux variants? Is it because there's no generic replacement for the Samsung RIL? If I were to download the source and do a generic build, or even a specific one, I wouldn't be able to install it because...?
Sorry to be a pain, but I genuinely have no clue. Again, thank you for the insight!
2.2 will boot on the I500 just nothing works. If you would like to help http://opensource.samsung.com/
The source code can be found there. Please feel free to help the development along.
I suggest you read through the reply's to your question and pay special note to those bringing up the RIL as that seems to be the biggest hurdle right now.
I think maybe the answer you are looking for is that it is possible to do it, it's just extremely difficult because Samsung's open source is very shoddy and isn't based on AOS, which is what is used for most other phones.
Since the developers don't have a build that works, they have to work from the ground up with AOS and get every last feature on the fascinate working without using Samsung's code (TouchWiz, widgets, etc).
The links they gave you explain most of it but you have to sift through the posts. There is a dev named jt (amongst others) who is working on a ROM that is upgradable based on AOSP and it looks very promising.
edit: It's also worth noting that when I say "not based on AOS" I mean that it is proprietary software used by Samsung-only phones and is not coded by Google. It still, of course, is based on Android OS. It would be akin to a ROM coded by Samsung for their phones rather than generic ROMs that could be downloaded by other phones.
Perfect, thanks!
Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
For clarification.... so I can wrap my brain around this. Is this situation kinda like having bought a new computer that's running an os, but has no installed device drivers and nowhere to download them from, so they have to be written by hand?
Edit: that last post came thru while I was writing this one, I think it basically answers my question...
So what the devs on here are trying to do is develop a "generic" profile that can work on our phone (as well as others?), creating a solid base to allow users to upgrade and change at-will without having to wait for official releases?
See, that's the part I'm having a hard time with. No generic profile built into the OS to use in the absence of a hardware specific one?
LoverBoyV said:
Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
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On a sidenote, I bought a Dell netbook witih Ubuntu. Didn't waste time with Ubuntu, but I chose it because I didn't want MS to get money from a license fee. Installed Mac OS X on it the day it arrived
Ya know, I tried to do the same thing with my inspiron 1525 notebook, with snow leopard 10.6.3 since I have a spare hard drive. Spent a whole day with numerous guides, trying this n that. Got it to actually boot to the desktop once, bit as I was putting the drivers in, it went into KP and from that point on, I could never even reinstall back to the desktop again.
Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source: (Twitter, About 12pm 1/2/2011 from Samsungtweets via Cotweet - http://twitter.com/Samsungtweets/samsung-usa )
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
EDIT: gave more specific time and source of tweets. Post is meant to be objective, without definition of ASAP for this context.
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
soba49 said:
Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source (Twitter, 6 hours ago):
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
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I'm not sure if this is meant to be funny or not haha. Are those recent tweets?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
They seem to post the same things over and over, of course this is also because people constantly ask when is froyo coming, and every time they say there is no definite date. It is coming soon that that is all they will say; yelling, moaning and crying isn't gonna make it come any sooner, just sit back and it will eventually come.
Hey,
I am NOT a dev, but I would like to know what kind of work work is going to be required now that gingerbread is on the forefront?
For example, VPlayer, doesn't work... it FC... How much work is it going to take to get the program back up and running???
Im just asking because, as much as I hate to admit it, fragmentation (as everyone calls it) is going to start causing issues. I get that google wants to offer the best and the latest and greatest, but if everytime a new API get sent out, and devs' have to rewrite their work, how much time is it going to take to get the proggy back up and running??
Thanks!
Theo
theomajigga said:
I am NOT a dev,
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You should've stop right there.
You realize that at this point only 1(!) phone is running official 2.3 Gingerbread and it's Samsung Nexus S. It's a drop in a bucket comparing to all of the phones that are running official 2.x firmware.
Furthermore, if an app is properly developed against 1.x or 2.x SDK then it will work with gingerbreadas as all APIs are future-compliant. The only problem would be is if an app is developed using 2.3 APIs and you would try to use it on earlier roms or if it used undocumented/unofficial APIs that were not supposed to be used and were discontinued in future releases.
We don't know what 's causing vPlayer not to work, could be many things (kernel, unfinished rom development, missing libs) or it could be things in vPlayer that were improperly implemented.
Send a log to developer and see if he/she can help you. Given that you're not running official (or at least stable!) release, you may not get far though.
But please, don't jump on that "fragmentation" train, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
borodin1 said:
You should've stop right there.
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First off, I didn't ask for you to be a ****, if I would have posted this in the dev forum that would have prompted you to respond as such.
borodin1 said:
You realize that at this point only 1(!) phone is running official 2.3 Gingerbread and it's Samsung Nexus S. It's a drop in a bucket comparing to all of the phones that are running official 2.x firmware.
Furthermore, if an app is properly developed against 1.x or 2.x SDK then it will work with gingerbreadas as all APIs are future-compliant. The only problem would be is if an app is developed using 2.3 APIs and you would try to use it on earlier roms or if it used undocumented/unofficial APIs that were not supposed to be used and were discontinued in future releases.
We don't know what 's causing vPlayer not to work, could be many things (kernel, unfinished rom development, missing libs) or it could be things in vPlayer that were improperly implemented.
Send a log to developer and see if he/she can help you. Given that you're not running official (or at least stable!) release, you may not get far though.
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Thanks for the answer, i guess.
borodin1 said:
But please, don't jump on that "fragmentation" train, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
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Now that that is out of the way, can I ask you HOW you can honestly say that Android isn't fragmented. Seriously ask your self... I LOVE android, I really do, G1-cliq-MT3G-Nexus One-HD2(androided)-MT4G, but I can't even lie about that. There is 9 API levels!! 2.3, 2.2, 2.1, 2.0.1, 2.0, 1.6, 1.5, 1.1, 1.0.
NOW I DO UNDERSTAND THAT ALMOST 45% ARE ON 2.2 and 40% ARE ON 2.1.
Ok, so now most apps are going to be working on that 84% of phones running level 7+.
But this ALSO doesn't account for the manufacture API's that are implemented buy some of them, which I KNOW causes some problems. (skype on the Samsung Galaxy Series) just to name one very big one. Skype works on other devices with 2.1, but it doesn't on the Samsung 2.1? as a consumer, I'd ask wtf, even with their limited knowledge of android.
Fragmentation is defined as is the inability to "write once and run anywhere". Rovio complained about this. Albeit not directly, but they said that they were having issues with people on some phones, with some versions of software, and that it wasn't going to work across the board.
I hate to admit it but there are certain things that need to be done to insure that Android will not only be the "Mobile OS" but it will also be the demanded one (IMHO):
1. Cut the bull**** manufacture stuff out, make only ONE set of API's, with 0 proprietary API's. Make it stuff that you can get if you want through the Android Market (custom UI's and such).
2. Control the god-damn market, find spammers, find shady devs re-uploading their apps multiple times to get ad dollars.
3. Get everybody on board to updates, require that all devices with X specifications be updated Y months after a source is released. That will get again get everyone on the same API level, and will make all apps compatible (maybe slow).
4. For the love of all holy, USE THE BEST COMPONENTS YOU CAN FIND! AND MAKE IT A STANDARD At least for the primary functions of the phone. For example, the Nexus One (my fave so far) did NOT have a competent touch screen, 2 point, and a BAD 2 point at that, and that is considered to be the new dev phone. Well who the HELL would want to dev for a platform that can only recognize two points (barely) that doesn't always even get them right? I sure as hell wouldn't. Finally I get the MT4G, the FIRST thing i did was test the touch screen, and guess what... It still is sub-par. 4 points, where my friends Galaxy S can do 6 or something. Now you are going to ask me, who uses 6 points idiot? Some games, do, and to top **** off, if you can't recognize 2 points properly, close together, how can some of the basic multi-touch functions work? (google maps on the N1)
I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm realistic. A mobile platform can't win like this.
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~damithch/df/device-fragmentation.htm