2nd Report here 12/19/10: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9939308&postcount=43
Hi, I know many of you are considering or at least curious about the Nexus S. Admittedly one day is hardly any time to play with a phone properly, I don't even think a week is enough, but here are some things that I would like to point out.
1) Screen is beautiful. I can't even explain how good it is. I've played with a friend's fascinate before, and playing with it vs having it for a whole day are 2 different things. I've had my N1 with me the whole time and I have to say the screen is just a night and day difference.
2) I've not noticed *any* speed increase in any possible way on this phone. I use Enom's ROM on my N1 which as you know is a stock based ROM, with Launcher Pro, and nothing is faster on the NS as far as I've noticed. Going from app to app, going to home screen, swiping between home screens. Which may be moot because nothing opens "slow" on my N1 that I've ever had a problem with.
3) Browser has not improved a BIT! I was thinking with the hummingbird processor and the amazing GPU that the NS has that there would be significant improvement in browsing. None whatsoever. Pages don't load any faster than on my N1, and more disturbingly Flash content also doesn't work ANY better. On high quality flash content, it still chugs just as much as the N1 does. This is the main reason why my phone may be going back before the 30 days are up.
4) NoLed is a life saver, but it's no replacement for trackball notifications.
5) Battery life and signal strength do seem to be a bit better on the NS.
6) GPS doesn't have any problems as far as I can tell. I've used it twice today and it's obtained a lock in the same amount of time the N1 takes.
7) Tried 2 games, dot2 and angry birds. AB seems to run a little smoother on the NS, dot2 seems to run worse :S
Overall, the lack of any real performance increase (save for the app drawer, which is the ONLY place I've noticed it), I'm most likely going to return the phone to Best Buy and just get it used when it's a lot cheaper on craigslist.
I hope this information is helpful.
Man, I was really hoping the NS browser would be better. Having Flash content on Android is great, but still has its issues.
How much better is the multi-touch? Thats my main complaint with the N1. I get a lot of miss touches and double hits, especially when using the kb at times.
BTW, could you post some shots of the N1 and MS screens side by side, or maybe a video of them running the same apps where you see increased performance on one or the other?
tr.slate said:
Man, I was really hoping the NS browser would be better. Having Flash content on Android is great, but still has its issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash still has desktop issues, how would it ever get good performance on a 4" inch device. (For example, a certain Wendy's Advert makes my cursor blink in an annoying fashion until I close that page) Flash is just lucky the alternatives are not nearly developed enough.
I have a feeling Google is going to regret the Nexus S after they see the LG Optimus X2. There is just no reason to buy a Nexus S when you could have had a dual core, better GPU based phone.
I think flash being slow has mostly to do with adobes crappy flash not htc or samsung. And I find it hard to believe there is no performance increase. This is by far the fastest / best android phone to get. Not sure if it's worth the upgrade for me being a vibrant owner.
Guys... if you have done any research u should know that the GPU in the Galaxy S phones is faster than the GPU in the LG Optimus X2...
If anyone is on the fence about this or waiting for Tegra 2, Flash works amazingly on the Viewsonic gtab with Tegra 2. Despite the fact that the device is very young and unoptimised it plays every flash video I have thrown at it perfectly smooth. Even fast paced action videos like surfing and downhill mountain biking. Full screen or embedded in the webpage at any zoom level and at higher resolution than the Nexus S too (1024x600).
The same flash videos play at about 12fps on the Nexus One and Captivate. The Captivate with JPU rom is a little faster and smoother at everything else at the moment though.
The browser in Galaxy S JPU rom seems far smoother than the one on the Nexus S from all the videos I've seen. Strange they haven't ported the improvements over to it.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that the browser on the gTablet isn't any better than the N1 aside from Flash.
ksc6000 said:
Hi, I know many of you are considering or at least curious about the Nexus S. Admittedly one day is hardly any time to play with a phone properly, I don't even think a week is enough, but here are some things that I would like to point out.
1) Screen is beautiful. I can't even explain how good it is. I've played with a friend's fascinate before, and playing with it vs having it for a whole day are 2 different things. I've had my N1 with me the whole time and I have to say the screen is just a night and day difference.
2) I've not noticed *any* speed increase in any possible way on this phone. I use Enom's ROM on my N1 which as you know is a stock based ROM, with Launcher Pro, and nothing is faster on the NS as far as I've noticed. Going from app to app, going to home screen, swiping between home screens. Which may be moot because nothing opens "slow" on my N1 that I've ever had a problem with.
3) Browser has not improved a BIT! I was thinking with the hummingbird processor and the amazing GPU that the NS has that there would be significant improvement in browsing. None whatsoever. Pages don't load any faster than on my N1, and more disturbingly Flash content also doesn't work ANY better. On high quality flash content, it still chugs just as much as the N1 does. This is the main reason why my phone may be going back before the 30 days are up.
4) NoLed is a life saver, but it's no replacement for trackball notifications.
5) Battery life and signal strength do seem to be a bit better on the NS.
6) GPS doesn't have any problems as far as I can tell. I've used it twice today and it's obtained a lock in the same amount of time the N1 takes.
7) Tried 2 games, dot2 and angry birds. AB seems to run a little smoother on the NS, dot2 seems to run worse :S
Overall, the lack of any real performance increase (save for the app drawer, which is the ONLY place I've noticed it), I'm most likely going to return the phone to Best Buy and just get it used when it's a lot cheaper on craigslist.
I hope this information is helpful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should remember that not all the apps/games have had the chance to incorporate all the new APIs yet. The devs need to update their apps first.
Thanks for the hands on summary. Wouldn't blame U if deciding to take it back...
the nexus s sounds totally like something i should skip
heck ... i imagine later on xda would get most all the Ns googles into all the galaxy line up except NFC ...
Watching Amazon Video on Demand with my N1 was always choppy. Watching it on my OCed G2 is actually pretty smooth most of the time.
Here are some hard facts about NexusS performance:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4059/nexus-s-and-android-23-review-gingerbread-for-the-holidays/8
I like to skip one generation at a time. To me the nexus s didn't advance far enough for me to abandon the 1. Besides. Mine is in flawless condition (although its my 3rd)
dezshiz said:
Guys... if you have done any research u should know that the GPU in the Galaxy S phones is faster than the GPU in the LG Optimus X2...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by a slim margine but the benefits of a dual core far exceed a single core along with SD slot and should be on 4g.
tr.slate said:
Man, I was really hoping the NS browser would be better. Having Flash content on Android is great, but still has its issues.
How much better is the multi-touch? Thats my main complaint with the N1. I get a lot of miss touches and double hits, especially when using the kb at times.
BTW, could you post some shots of the N1 and MS screens side by side, or maybe a video of them running the same apps where you see increased performance on one or the other?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The multitouch is perfect. I've used the "yet another multi touch" testing app and it can notice 5-6 touch points (from what I've tried) and not have any problem distinguishing them or mixing them up during movement.
There really is no need for me to post any video of anything because like I said, except for the app drawer, I haven't noticed ANY performance increase in the phone.
draugaz said:
Here are some hard facts about NexusS performance:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4059/nexus-s-and-android-23-review-gingerbread-for-the-holidays/8
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great link, man. It's nice to see the numbers like that. I think any individual test doesn't mean a whole lot, but looking at them in total... I'm glad I didn't get the S lol.
Your results from flash are pretty disheartening.
Can you try www.engadget.com/video ? Are there really no performance differences?
Paul22000 said:
Your results from flash are pretty disheartening.
Can you try www.engadget.com/video ? Are there really no performance differences?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Paul I will try that on my N1 and my NS when I get home and am on wifi and will report back here.
ksc6000 said:
There really is no need for me to post any video of anything because like I said, except for the app drawer, I haven't noticed ANY performance increase in the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, you might not notice it, but that doesn't mean the performance increase isn't there necessarily. Perhaps it's subtle, or perhaps some apps take advantage and some don't.
Check out this new article from Anandtech:
GLBenchmark 2.0 Released - Modern SoCs Benchmarked
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4064/glbenchmark-20-released-modern-socs-benchmarked
by Brian Klug on 12/17/2010 2:08:00 AM
Posted in Smartphones , GLBenchmark , SoC
We're constantly on the lookout for new benchmarks to use for benchmarking the latest SoCs in devices. Today, Kishonti Informatics released GLBenchmark 2.0, the latest version of its popular GLBenchmark suite for measuring 3D graphics performance across a host of platforms: iOS, Android, Symbian, Windows Mobile, and Maemo. We've been testing it out for a while now and have some numbers of our own and from the community results. The end result is yet another look at how 3D performance stacks up between nearly all modern SoCs.
GLBenchmark 2.0 - as its name implies - tests OpenGL ES 2.0 performance on compatible devices. The suite includes two long benchmarking scenarios with a demanding combination of OpenGL ES 2.0 effects, and individual tests such as swap buffer speed (for determining the framerate cap), texture fill, triangle, and geometric tests. GLBenchmark 2.0 also leverages texture based and direct lighting, bump, environment, and radiance mapping, soft shadows, vertex shader based skinning, level of detail support, multi-pass deferred rendering, noise textures, and ETC1 texture compression.
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We've been testing devices for a little while now and have a decent enough spread to make for some interesting comparison. The only extra consideration is that all of these were run at the device's respective native resolution. There's no way to change resolution, and likewise numbers cannot be scaled linearly because we may be memory bandwidth limited on some devices. GLBenchmark will join our benchmark suite for devices going forward.
First are the resolutions (native) of the devices themselves:
Code:
Device Resolutions - GLBenchmark Native Resolution
Google Nexus One 800x480 WVGA
LG Optimus One 320x480 HVGA
T-Mobile myTouch 4G 800x480 WVGA
Samsung Fascinate 800x480 WVGA
Google Nexus S 800x480 WVGA
HTC EVO 4G 800x480 WVGA
Apple iPhone 4 960x640 DVGA
Apple iPad 1024x768 XGA
Motorola Droid 854x480 FWVGA
T-Mobile G2 800x480 WVGA
Nokia N900 800x480 WVGA
Apple iPhone 3GS 320x480 HVGA
Thankfully, comparison across devices running Android is easy thanks to the relatively standard WVGA resolution guidelines for high end devices.
GLBenchmark 2.0 - Egypt:
GLBenchmark 2.0 - PRO:
The first benchmark, Egypt, tests OpenGL ES 2.0 and represents the newest and most demanding benchmark. The second - GLBenchmark PRO - represents a suite that tests OpenGL ES 1.1 performance. Moving forward we will report these whenever possible on smartphone reviews.
Gallery: GLBenchmark Scenes - Egypt and PRO
It's pretty apparent right now that PowerVR SGX 540 still holds the lead, though the new 45 nm Qualcomms with Adreno 205 are a huge jump forwards from Adreno 200 performance wise. It's interesting that it looks like we're GPU or memory bandwidth bound on those new Qualcomms, as evidenced by the similar results the myTouch 4G and G2 post despite a 200 MHz CPU clock disparity.
http://www.youtube.com/v/C61xvxsUcTY?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0&hd=1
Overall, GLBenchmark is designed to showcase some of the OpenGL ES 2.0 features that developers may potentially use in future gaming titles. There are a lot more low level tests which we'll be playing around with in the future and using to test in much more detail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I am sure that there are significant performance increases in terms of graphics for games and whatnot...but I'm saying that I haven't noticed any in daily use. Opening or closing apps, swiping between homescreens IS laggy once you put a lot of icons and stuff on there (unlike Launcher Pro..more on that next). Viewing websites, typing, scrolling is a little smoother in some places and some places it's the same...
Interestingly, once I installed launcher pro, the home screen swiping is now back to being as smooth as should be, but the app drawer on Launcher Pro is MORE laggy than it is on the N1 lol. If there was a way that when u hit the app drawer, LauncherPro would open the stock app drawer which is extremely buttery smooth, that would be awesome.
Paul22000 said:
Hmm, you might not notice it, but that doesn't mean the performance increase isn't there necessarily. Perhaps it's subtle, or perhaps some apps take advantage and some don't.
Check out this new article from Anandtech:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that, Paul. When they say:
It's interesting that it looks like we're GPU or memory bandwidth bound on those new Qualcomms, as evidenced by the similar results the myTouch 4G and G2 post despite a 200 MHz CPU clock disparity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are your thoughts on this? If we're GPU-bound, dual core Snapdragon's won't help much. If it's a memory issue...is that solvable with the Adreno 205? I don't the S as a decent upgrade (despite some advantages, which I admit exist). I was leaning towards the LG Star or the new Moto dual core, but I see some advantages to sticking with HTC and the Qualcomm chip sets. (First, I've only used HTC for the last 5 years, despite purchasing other handsets for family/backup. Second, I was told the Snapdragon is held back by the GPU, and actually posts better FPU than the Hummingbird. Now that the 205s are present, I was seriously considering waiting for a dual core HTC device...)
Anyway, let me ask it this way, as this is the bottom line for a lot of us (though feel free to address any of the technical specs and reasons why): Which manufacturer do you think is better suited to kick out a killer device over the next 4 to 6 months? Is it Samsung, should they go dual core Hummingbird? (and we'll leave cheap plastic out of it, speaking only of internals and performance.) Do you feel it would be HTC with dual core Snapdragons and the 205s? LG with the Nvidia Tegra2 (unsure of their GPU and respective performance)? Moto? Someone else?
Related
i sure hope these get fixed in the coming months by our devs and cooks
i just got a chance to play with an old ATOM EXEC (64mb,qvga,520mhz.no 3g...etc). i was amazed on how much faster and snappier the device. i know that the screen has one fifth the pixels, but not everything is depending on graphics. here are some things i noticed ive grouped them into 5 differnt "benchmark classes
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
2-opening the windows directory takes about 1.5 seconds vs 4-5 seconds on my itje's 3.5rc1(one of the fastest roms i have tested. cold booting takes about half the time but thats to be expected due to the smaller windows folder.
3-opening demo PocketArtist is 6 seconds vs 8 on x1.
4-youtube videos using the application @normal quality setting does not lag at all. on my x1 it does sometimes when it is viewing while its finishing the download over wifi. m2d was not as good looking as tf3d but its so much smoother
5-navigating various parts of the OS (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) was just noticeably snappier on the EXEC. switching to landscape was faster on the X1 though
while the experience of the x1 is clearly better due to the screen,resolution,other phone features and all, i just cant but feel extremely disappointed with how things currently are especially the first observation.
I'm really interested in our cooks opinion on how performance may end up being improved in a major way in the coming few months in any of the above situations. I'm obviously interested in the first point as its very easy to notice compared to the other points. can we expect something worthwhile in terms of performance in wm6.5
btw i also tested a cooked dutty v4 htc diamond and i dont think the diamond was much better than the x1 in the performance.
I don't know if your x1 is customised or what, but so far my take is the X1 is the fastest winmo phones I ever own in the last few years, considering those I have owned include both smartphone and professional, wm5 and wm6 (touch pro, samsung i780, omnia, treo 500v, moto q9h, etc)
that reply was more fanboish than i would like it to be . i think the X1 (despite some problems) is the best htc phone made. but current generation QC-based phones (x1,tpro,hd and diamond) seem to be suffering from a performance problem and im not sure whats at blame.
are you noticing better performance than me?????? im using itje 3.5rc1
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
na....im totalli with you that ATOM EXEC is way faster than X1. no doubt. my frnd got an atom. but u hav 2 consider this
1. x1 resoution is 5times more as you said. thats like going from 800x600 resolution to 1920x1250. dats a HUGE jump and just imagine if just a ram and cpu upgrade is enogh to handle that kind of load.
2. also, i noticed that you r running tf3d. now installing that copies bout 1400 files into your windows folder. dat will take time.
3 .i don agree with apps running faster. youtube or PocketArtist, both run lot faster on x1.
4. navigation (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) is faster because, there are more things installed in you x1 than in your atom. also dont forget the fact that atom runs on lower resolution. a QVGA app that takes 200KB of RAM might take upto 2MB of ram when converted to WVGA.
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
THE GRIZZ said:
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well first thing as mention your running TF3d and that take up alot of the speed on your x1 i did reinstall of my phone to the newest orginal rom from se without any kind of tf3d and gotta say my phone was twice as fast when it had tf3d on it..also most of todays apps are not optimized for the newest phones out on the marked second try some real test with some games (eks Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 - Call of Duty 2 -) (convert some mp3s or videos on the phone) Test with some emulators like fpsece - pocketsnes - picodrive then you will hopefully see what your x1 is good for
i noticed when i have lot of apps open ..the phone becomes slow..and simple functions such as opening Menu's takes more than 1 second.
so when this happens.,..i use the 'FreeRam' of SKTools...and clear up everything.
then it becomes fast as before.
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the major problems here is windows mobile. It's just a mess.
Another is the resolution. Even on 2d, it makes a hell lot of difference. There's like ... 500% more pixels, with only 50% more performance.
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you did look around in XDA, you should know that Qualcomm's CPU is well known for it poor performance (especially for 2D/3D). X1/HD is already the best you can get compare to Kaiser but still far left behind PDA w/ Intel Xscale CPU. See for yourself for Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYimU-VHM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6JyfmuPU&feature=related
Since it's bascially a hardware issue, there is not much we can do on it performance side. But X1 still my best one I can get base on it's overall features (3.5mm audio, USB 2.0, WVGA, UTMS w/ US's 850/1900), build quality, form factor, and of course it's look.
iPhone? It does have PowerVR chipset for graphic acceleration. And it's simply a joke for this date if I have to give up multi-tasking (for all 3rd party apps) for it's smooth and cool factor. My X1 is a workhorse and I want it to run IGo8 w/ Coreplayer player over A2DP/AVRCP concurrently.
Resolution does indeed play a big role. When I launch a program that needs WGAFIXv3 running, i notice how the framerate is practically doubled....
Hopefully Windows Mobile 6.5 will do justice just as Windows 7 is doing TREMENDOUS justice in terms of speed/performance. I finally appreciate the direction Microsoft is taking. It seems that ever since the introduction of Windows Media Player 7 (all versions up to 6 loaded in a SNAP and then 7 and up started taking forever to open unless you upgrade to the latest/fastest PC), back in the day, Microsoft's norm was to build more and more bulkier mega-code-loading software and this rubbed off on the mobile side of things too. Even SQL Server Express 2005 takes sooooooo long to load on PC's. Everything of theirs needed soooo much disk access to open up until Windows 7 came along.
So yeah I'm hoping a slimlined approach on the mobile platform will redeem the Windows Mobile brand
Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYi...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6J...eature=related
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Click to collapse
these things in the video are very CPU intensive stuff. the stuff im complaining about is far simpler stuff
i am talking about simple none 2d graphics intensive image scrolling and simple dialog boxes movements. surly this stuff is not that hard to handle. decoding mpeg4 video at full screen is surly FAAAAAR more work and yet the x1 does an OK job hadling it. choking at something like displaying dialog boxes, schrolling screen full of text, handling menu selections...etc fingermenu,ucweb, miniflow, album, s2v are hardly graphics intensive stuff
question: is anyone noticing much better results then mine on a lite or even naked ROM
anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have replied to your post on the Turbo X1 thread, there are some answers, but maybe not the magic bullet you and I have been both looking for.
after messing around to get speedbooster to work. i managed assign higher priority to some of the apps that are suffering. its giving some worthwhile enhancements nothing major though.
im begening to think that the only way we can get get improved performance and iphone-like "experiance" is for all the software need to be re-written to use the graphics hardware of the QC chipset. that does not look very likely even on future software since the majority of the avalable phones dont have it. writing software for wm requires it to be written for the lowest common denomiator hardware.
software for LCD hardware will continue to make WM software a bit ugly for a very long time indeed
I am quite mystified by threads such as these but I put it down to two things... 1, I am not such an intense nor knowledgable user as the OP of the thread and 2, I dont use my phone in the same way or do not expect it to be used as I would my laptop or have the same level of software as the OP of the thread...
TBH I have been amazed by the capability of this phone and am pleasantly surprised time and again by its speed, functionality and performance... most of my programs are up and running in incredibly short order, I can access menus and the like almost instantaneously and even the windows folder (previously the worst folder to access using file explorer time wise) is much faster now when I open it... (I have upgraded to the R2A ROM and its much much better)... I find that videos are very watchable and play with no lag and the audio/video in sync... overall its exactly what it says on the tin in my ever so humble experience... although in my own admission I am not very savvy when it comes to these things so perhaps I am misunderstanding the fact that it is supposed to be as fast and capable as my laptop...
even the new generation htc phones (diamond2, touchpro2 )are using the same QC msm7200a present in all common WM w/vga phones http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchdiamond2/specification.html .
i think its about time software development should focused on creeating two versions of the same software
-qvga for compatibility with any phohe (including non graphics accelerated vga phones)
-w/vga version with hardware acceleration since all htcphones released since the kiaser use it
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
THE GRIZZ said:
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Grizz,
I believe it's similar to the whole issue of being able to notice "ghosting" on LCD screens. I personally know what it is, but yet I don't care enough to want to bother about it. For others, some people may not know what ghosting is until you show it to them and once you have "opened their eyes", they irrevocably develop the habit of constantly taking note as it happens on their screens.
And I believe this is ultimately the same issue with the issues you describe. Some people are just really content and amazed with the fact that such a small little bugger can still pack a punch. Sure, it'll slip up once or there, but for the most part, people are happy with what they've spent on the phone.
My 3 cents,
Cheers.
THE GRIZZ said:
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory
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Click to collapse
Maybe the SD card tuneup could help you speeding up the off-board flash memory goving you more speed from SDHC then internal flash...
THE GRIZZ said:
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the basic science rules is: if you gain on one thing you have to give in on other things.
Higher speed means higher power consumption. In time a higher speed will be possible with the same power consumption because the cpu size becomes smaller. But for that you will have to wait.
So what do you want? A speedy phone with unacceptable power consumption or do you want to timetravel to get the newest technology before we can imagine how it should look like ?
Hi all,
does anyone compare this phones by means of performance (CPU, graphics)? I didn't find anything in google
They have roughly similar cpu and graphics, hardware-wise. In terms of actual perceived performance, Android will probably be laggier due to the fact it is fully multitasking and apps are run through a vm. iPhone apps are compiled to run on the bare processor and for the most part are singletasking, so they will appear to run smoother.
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jashsu said:
They have roughly similar cpu and graphics, hardware-wise. In terms of actual perceived performance, Android will probably be laggier due to the fact it is fully multitasking and apps are run through a vm. iPhone apps are compiled to run on the bare processor and for the most part are singletasking, so they will appear to run smoother.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the whole vm bit affects performance much(if at all) since the G1 has hardware java acceleration.
[email protected] said:
I don't think the whole vm bit affects performance much(if at all) since the G1 has hardware java acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I recall correctly, the Jazelle technology in MSM7201 is not active since it only works on Java bytecode (dex tool converts Java bytecode into Dalvik bytecode). I could be mistaken, but i'm pretty sure it was discussed on android-discuss in passing at one time.
Edit: I will say that even though average performance seems adequate for most purposes, during the times when dvm decides to do gc, the phone does freeze up pretty badly. This has gotten better in 1.5, atleast.
I also believe some of the rendering on the iphone, such as page scrolling is going through the graphics chip whereas the g1 is doing most of the rendering via software. So the iphone is faster in that respect as well.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
jashsu said:
If I recall correctly, the Jazelle technology in MSM7201 is not active since it only works on Java bytecode (dex tool converts Java bytecode into Dalvik bytecode). I could be mistaken, but i'm pretty sure it was discussed on android-discuss in passing at one time.
Edit: I will say that even though average performance seems adequate for most purposes, during the times when dvm decides to do gc, the phone does freeze up pretty badly. This has gotten better in 1.5, atleast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dwang said:
I also believe some of the rendering on the iphone, such as page scrolling is going through the graphics chip whereas the g1 is doing most of the rendering via software. So the iphone is faster in that respect as well.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If true then this makes sense why the iphone's browser slides across the screen so easily. That was one thing that bothered me about the G1. Is the iphone just as powerful as the g1?
exile20 said:
If true then this makes sense why the iphone's browser slides across the screen so easily. That was one thing that bothered me about the G1. Is the iphone just as powerful as the g1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They both use the same arm chip with the same graphic accelerator. Both cpu's are underclocked, but the iphone is running at a higher clock speed than the g1.
I'm not sure why android is not using the graphic chip for scrolling. I'm guessing its because they have to support different multiple hardware architectures and platforms and couldn't set it up in a such way where the graphics chip can be accessed in a platform independent manner, whereas the iphone software is coded specifically for the arm platform.
dwang said:
They both use the same arm chip with the same graphic accelerator. Both cpu's are underclocked, but the iphone is running at a higher clock speed than the g1.
I'm not sure why android is not using the graphic chip for scrolling. I'm guessing its because they have to support different multiple hardware architectures and platforms and couldn't set it up in a such way where the graphics chip can be accessed in a platform independent manner, whereas the iphone software is coded specifically for the arm platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure this is right, iPhone's got a 620MHz ARM chip as seen in this artical http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/01/iphone-processor-found-620mhz-arm/
I guess it is a combination of higher specs and a better performing os. I wonder if Google can ever tweak Android to run smooth through out cause even though i have clocked my G1 at 528 running JF 1.5, It is still sluggish in some instances such as the browser and slight jitters here and there on the home screen.
exile20 said:
I am not sure this is right, iPhone's got a 620MHz ARM chip as seen in this artical http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/01/iphone-processor-found-620mhz-arm/
I guess it is a combination of higher specs and a better performing os. I wonder if Google can ever tweak Android to run smooth through out cause even though i have clocked my G1 at 528 running JF 1.5, It is still sluggish in some instances such as the browser and slight jitters here and there on the home screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone 3G is underclocked to 412 Mhz (max, speed varies during operation). On G1, the performance variation (particularly the jittering) is most likely due to inefficiencies due to vm (ever look at the garbage collection frequency in a log dump?) and unoptimized use of opengl acceleration.
Android on G1 can perform better (there was a noticeable increase in performance going from 1.1 -> 1.5) but at some point the optimizations start becoming hardware-dependent, and I think the Android Team is weary of spending much time on hardware-dependent tweaks (in particular, a JIT compilier for the vm).
Simply put, the iPhone still runs much smoother than the G1.
The little rock/iPhone picture has no bearing on the question whatsoever.
i found info about iphone here - but unfortunately there is no info on g1 - look here:
http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?benchmark=pro&D=Apple iPhone&testgroup=overall
Henchman said:
Simply put, the iPhone still runs much smoother than the G1.
The little rock/iPhone picture has no bearing on the question whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It kind of does. The iPhone purports to be a modern smartphone, however it cannot handle such basic tasks as MMS, video recording or adding additional memory, things that even modern dumbphones can handle. That's terribly crippling, and although some of it is going to be resolved with iPhone OS 3.0, its hardware simply cannot handle removable cards or video recording/videocalls.
I doubt we'll see removable cards on an iPhone anytime soon - Apple has every reason to force people to use iTunes to put media on their devices.
jordanjay29 said:
It kind of does. The iPhone purports to be a modern smartphone, however it cannot handle such basic tasks as MMS, video recording or adding additional memory, things that even modern dumbphones can handle. That's terribly crippling, and although some of it is going to be resolved with iPhone OS 3.0, its hardware simply cannot handle removable cards or video recording/videocalls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please dont turn this into an Iphone bashing thread, but i do agree and disagree with your point. The Iphone is not really a smart phone, but yet not a multimedia phone. It is somewhere in between. Not having removable disk is not a problem especially if you buy the 16gig but multitasking is very important and it does not have that fully. The G1 i would consider to be a smart phone because of it's smart phone features but it is really lacking in smart phone performance and that is what the iphone has over it. I just hope the google team can get it to a point that there is little to no lag.
exile20 said:
Please dont turn this into an Iphone bashing thread, but i do agree and disagree with your point. The Iphone is not really a smart phone, but yet not a multimedia phone. It is somewhere in between. Not having removable disk is not a problem especially if you buy the 16gig but multitasking is very important and it does not have that fully. The G1 i would consider to be a smart phone because of it's smart phone features but it is really lacking in smart phone performance and that is what the iphone has over it. I just hope the google team can get it to a point that there is little to no lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must agree on the performance part, the G1 sorry to say - isn't exactly speeding along in alot of aspects, but what irritates me the most is how f.king useless the camera really is, my 1.2mp webcam takes better pictures than this thing under worse conditions. But you can't have it all i guess
I think from an absolute perspective, the g1 has quite good performance.
If you gave the g1 to somebody who has never used an iphone, that person would not have any issues with performance. The g1 with version 1.5 runs quite snappy as a matter of fact.
However, when compared with the iphone, there are some differences in performance, but I think the g1 still holds up quite well, given the architectural differences between android and iphone.
Yes, the iphone does scroll faster than the g1, but scrolling in the g1 is still very smooth and fast for the most part.
dwang said:
I think from an absolute perspective, the g1 has quite good performance.
If you gave the g1 to somebody who has never used an iphone, that person would not have any issues with performance. The g1 with version 1.5 runs quite snappy as a matter of fact.
However, when compared with the iphone, there are some differences in performance, but I think the g1 still holds up quite well, given the architectural differences between android and iphone.
Yes, the iphone does scroll faster than the g1, but scrolling in the g1 is still very smooth and fast for the most part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So how does it put up against a HTC touch HD running WiMo for instance? I assume more snappy?
//M
m.klinge said:
So how does it put up against a HTC touch HD running WiMo for instance? I assume more snappy?
//M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've never used a winmo device so I wouldn't know.
m.klinge said:
So how does it put up against a HTC touch HD running WiMo for instance? I assume more snappy?
//M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me Winmo is quite laggy and the fact that the screen is resistive is a killer for me. I cant stand them. TouchFlo is very nice looking tho.
On the performance part of the G1, I admit it is snappy when you have a fresh install but as the apps download, the sms start to accumulate and the more contacts you have it slows down more and more but it is still quite usable. The browser is my biggest gripe with the G1. Surfing a site like www.ign.com makes scrolling come to a crawl on the G1. I never used android other than on the g1 so i am not sure if the bottleneck is the OS or the phone's hardware. That is what i would like to know.
I'm sure the Galaxy Tab will be slightly more powerful... But I can't believe by much.
The Archos Tablets are coming out late September-mid October.
There will be many different sizes... 10.1", 7", 4.3"... etc.
I see people saying the Galaxy tab will cost more than 600$. That's absurd.
All of Archos's tablets are <$300
I own a Vibrant, and believe me, I love it. But I personally will be getting an Archos 10.1 . $299 isn't asking for much.
What do you think.
http://www.archos.com/products/ta/index.html?country=us&lang=en
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Of course I am expecting some sort of hack to run the Market on the Archos... that's honestly the only down side but not necesarily a deal breaker.
I would be really hesistant to get an Archos tablet - they've been putting these out for a little while now, but their track record has not been great. Maybe this will change with their new designs - I hadn't heard or read up on the Archos 70 - but they just released the Archos Home 7 a few months ago, and it was not particularly well received.
EDIT: The Archos spec sheet says they are using an ARM A8 based processor, so it could be on par with the A8-based Hummingbird in terms of CPU power - no mention of what GPU is being used though. The GPU on the Hummingbird is an absolute (mobile) beast.
I honestly was about to buy a Z-180 til i heard of the Archos.
And yes... the GPU on the Galaxy S's are supreme...
10.1" Galaxy Tab = king. 7" is too small for me for a tablet. Tablet = halfway between smart phone and netbook. 7" tablet = halfway between smartphone and tablet. Lol
Spec wise, id say the Gtab has a great edge just because of its on board gpu. What you need to think about is how much of a difference that makes to you.
If you just want normal stuff, then no big deal. If you want to play 3d games or play true high def content then the Tab looks way better. If not then well.... The opposite.
Personally I think the archos is just for watching stuff, and the Tab is more of a daily driver.
I wouldn't think about pricing just yet, because until we get numbers from samsung, everything is bull****. Just cast it from your mind.
For me, the Tab is the right size. The appeal is that it'll fit in a coat pocket, or you can just toss out into a bag. 10 inches is huge (anyone who just smirked: shame on you!) and although the nice big screen is ok at home, to me its just impractical in public, particularly since you have to grasp it, not just let it rest in your hand.
Finally, does the archos have a phone in it? That would make.a difference to me to be honest.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Yeah it's all down to personal preference about 7" or 10"... A tablet would be more of an 'at-home' thing for me... My phone is for the go aha.
I'm sure the Archos would be able to handle some 3d games though. We'll see...
They both hop on the 1GHz. I don't know much about Archos GPU though.
andershizzle said:
Yeah it's all down to personal preference about 7" or 10"... A tablet would be more of an 'at-home' thing for me... My phone is for the go aha.
I'm sure the Archos would be able to handle some 3d games though. We'll see...
They both hop on the 1GHz. I don't know much about Archos GPU though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah, the archos should handle the games and stuff as well as an equivalently specced phone, its certainly no slouch. Just the tab is 'better'.
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I'm in the same dilemma right now too...not sure whether to go with the archos 7 inch or 10 inch....or whether to buy the galaxy tab....and a major deciding factor will be the pricing of the tab once its announced...
Yes if the Tab is any more than 400 I probably will go with the Archos... Can't beat $299
The only thing about the GPU in the Hummingbird is that there is nothing to do (yet) with all that power. It's in a league of it's own when it comes to graphics horsepower, and until we see more Android devices take up the PowerVR SGX540 GPU, I doubt we'll see anything take advantage of that power.
Hell, unless/until we start playing games at 720p on TV/Monitors via HDMI, it's not entirely clear we need that kind of graphics processing either. Take a look at the "Epic Citadel" tech demo of the Unreal 3 engine running on the iPhone 4 (which uses the less powerful PowerVR 535 I think) to see what can be accomplished with a GPU with 1/3 the power of the Hummingbird.
Comparing things like that cross platform is fairly useless.
There ate several things that can run on my iphone's old hardware and i know if it were in Android with the same hardware it would run like a dog. Look at Symbian. Very.few Symbian phones use "modern" hardware, but Symbian has no problem with lag.
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mesasone said:
The only thing about the GPU in the Hummingbird is that there is nothing to do (yet) with all that power. It's in a league of it's own when it comes to graphics horsepower, and until we see more Android devices take up the PowerVR SGX540 GPU, I doubt we'll see anything take advantage of that power.
Hell, unless/until we start playing games at 720p on TV/Monitors via HDMI, it's not entirely clear we need that kind of graphics processing either. Take a look at the "Epic Citadel" tech demo of the Unreal 3 engine running on the iPhone 4 (which uses the less powerful PowerVR 535 I think) to see what can be accomplished with a GPU with 1/3 the power of the Hummingbird.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you put it like that, then I'd say that the added GPU power adds a degree of future proofing. I suspect that what with the slew of droid based tablets arriving, people will start developing things that take advantage of the screen size. Particularly since tablets have a lot more battery so you can game for a lot longer, and thus might be interested in prettier visual.
Food for thought anyway.
The equivalent 7" archos is a great looking device tho. Although, can someone fill me in on a few things (i know nothing of the devices). Firstly, the spec just says the GPU is '3d OpenGL' but doesn't say the actual chip set. Would like to know what it is. Secondly, it says up to 250gigs, and I assumed that was a choice of internal flash-drives, but the spec sheet has 8gig flash and 250gig HD. Does that mean you connect a HD with USB or a changeable 2.5" drive or something ?
Certainly would help me understand
As long as it has decent quality and runs latest stock android.
Sent from galaxy s. JG4 + oneclick lag fix version 2.3
BigJayDogg3 said:
Comparing things like that cross platform is fairly useless.
There ate several things that can run on my iphone's old hardware and i know if it were in Android with the same hardware it would run like a dog. Look at Symbian. Very.few Symbian phones use "modern" hardware, but Symbian has no problem with lag.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, like what specifically?
Heavy gunner.
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LostAlone said:
If you put it like that, then I'd say that the added GPU power adds a degree of future proofing. I suspect that what with the slew of droid based tablets arriving, people will start developing things that take advantage of the screen size. Particularly since tablets have a lot more battery so you can game for a lot longer, and thus might be interested in prettier visual.
Food for thought anyway.
The equivalent 7" archos is a great looking device tho. Although, can someone fill me in on a few things (i know nothing of the devices). Firstly, the spec just says the GPU is '3d OpenGL' but doesn't say the actual chip set. Would like to know what it is. Secondly, it says up to 250gigs, and I assumed that was a choice of internal flash-drives, but the spec sheet has 8gig flash and 250gig HD. Does that mean you connect a HD with USB or a changeable 2.5" drive or something ?
Certainly would help me understand
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's an 8GB Flash Memory 7" tablet, expandable with Micro SD, and then there's a 7" tablet with an actual internal 250GB Hard Drive.
The 10" has a 8GB internal (micro SD expandable) for 299$ and 16GB internal (micro SD expandable) for 349$
Ah ok I get ya.
I assumed that it was one device with aftermarket add ons *facepalm* the 250gig version sounds pretty GOOD in theory at least
WARNING - LONG POST AHEAD
Anyways, I think what will make the real difference to the choice will be how much you want mobile data. There seems to be two schools of thought on how to use a tablet device here:
a) Those who would be wanting a tablet to augment their current device.
b) Those who see a small form factor tablet as a total alternative.
For those in camp A, the archos has to be a better device. Not only because of cost, but the extra capacity is definitely a head turner.
For those in camp B, the Tabs 3g radio and actual phone capabilities wins the game hands down.
Personally I am much more of a B. I would certainly be happy with an archos. However, since Im not the kind of person who would use it at home, it'd only do service as a media device on long trips. And it'd make me happy in that capacity.
However, since the Tab offers that same performance (less capacity, but I can't see why I would ever need to load up 250gigs of anything) and extras, I just see myself using it more. In my head I can see me using it to hold my notes or whatever I'm working from, and then I can just kick over to a web browser to find what I need or take calls or whatever, all in one device. Of course, I can still use my phone as a phone and my Tab the same as the archos, but I have the choice.
I think that the times I am sitting on a station waiting for a train or whatever, I would kick myself for not having the data use, and anytime where I have to scrabble through my pockets for my phone.
Am still waiting on pricing of course. If the Tab is ridiculously priced (I maintain that this isn't likely to happen) then I may well say screw it and get an archos or indeed another tablet, because much as I love the tab, I'm only willing to pay so much for what I see as the bonuses of using one. If the Tab is competitively priced against the archos, I can't see why anyone would buy the archos (unless they are comitted to carrying a silly amount of media), because even if you never use the added 3g functionality, you know its there. I figure a lot of people will be waiting on the pricing, because if the Tab is say 50-100 bucks more than the archos, its a no brainer. 100-150 more, and its a personal preference. Any more than that and its to much.
The TLDR version:
With my lifestyle, the phoneness of the Tab makes it a real winner. To others, perhaps not, but then again we all have to make our own choices as to what device/s fits for us
MOD EDIT IN BOLD.
LostAlone said:
Ah ok I get ya.
BJD3's abbv. version.
I'd like a tablet that can replace my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly the same boat im in. Id have to get one off contract since i just bought a captivate and plan on keeping it.
My thing is i just refuse to pay for two data plans, especially when i have AT&Ts grandfathered unlimited plan. And without 3G i can't justify the purchase of a tablet to myself.
So for me to even consider a tablet, it would HAVE to include a telephone. This is one reason i was so excited about the Streak, nut Dell kept dragging their feet bringing it to the US.
At this point, the Tab hits all my check marks, it just has to be priced somewhere south of 550 USD.
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I currently own and use an Archos 5IT 5" android tablet.
Hardware wise, it outperforms the T-mobile Galaxy S that my roommate uses, with a processor that is clocked at 600mhz. I do not remember the chipset information off the top of my head, but it is a TI chip that has some solid power on the graphics side, and OpenGL support is available now with the latest firmware updates.
The biggest issue with Archos 5IT is that while updates have been constant for the device, there is no plans to put Android 2.0+ on the device, it is currently running 1.6 and will continue to do so until a 3rd party is able to port over something newer.
The new Archos tablets will not have any "phone parts" included in them, that is part of the reason for the lower price.
It will also include their standard Archos Media Center addin, which is a rather nice full function media application that runs overtop Android on the 5IT. I use their built in media center application over any Android based ones due to its simple UI and built in access to network shares, and all in all its pretty solid.
Otherwise, I have had nothing but good things to say about the device, in spite of its few quirks, most of which are being addressed with the newest models.
I plan on using my Vibrant's "MobileAP" for 3g Data on Archos if ever needed. Why pay for two plans? Heh. So the phone capabilities don't mean much for me. Even then it'd be an at home kind of system.
Ill admit the Archos is a good tablet, but two things keep me from getting it.
It lacks a multitouch screen, and it doesn't have a 3G connection.
While I'd prefer a capacitive screen, but if the screen is like the one in my Fuze, i can deal with that, and as I've said, i can't justify a tablet if any size if it diesnt have a SIM card slot.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Specs and benchmark wise, we all know the Vibrant's GPU is king.
Compared to other Android phones, say a Nexus One, or a G2, where can we see the GPU shine where others can't?
Basically, what can this GPU do that others can't
Gigamaster89 said:
Specs and benchmark wise, we all know the Vibrant's GPU is king.
Compared to other Android phones, say a Nexus One, or a G2, where can we see the GPU shine where others can't?
Basically, what can this GPU do that others can't
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can do things faster. Both a Prius and Ferrari can drive 100 meters, why is the Ferrari better?
Mark271 said:
It can do things faster. Both a Prius and Ferrari can drive 100 meters, why is the Ferrari better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But Ferrari has no practice purpose for as a daily city driver. In the GPU perspective, it's like having a powerful GPU but no software to use the potential.
I believe OP is asking what software can make use of our GPU to its fullest extend.
I say it's emulators, the GPU benefits emulators more than anything.
PaiPiePia said:
But Ferrari has no practice purpose for as a daily city driver. In the GPU perspective, it's like having a powerful GPU but no software to use the potential.
I believe OP is asking what software can make use of our GPU to its fullest extend.
I say it's emulators, the GPU benefits emulators more than anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Essentially, you think the OP is asking what uses a GPU. Anything you see uses the GPU. The Vibrant does it all better. What you can tell the difference on is completely subjective to the person in a lot of ways.
PaiPiePia said:
But Ferrari has no practice purpose for as a daily city driver. In the GPU perspective, it's like having a powerful GPU but no software to use the potential.
I believe OP is asking what software can make use of our GPU to its fullest extend.
I say it's emulators, the GPU benefits emulators more than anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A Ferrari has just as much purpose as any other car?
Mark271 said:
A Ferrari has just as much purpose as any other car?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Try moving a couch (or an entire house) with one.
Seriously, get the right tool for the right job.
More to the point, if you want to demonstrate the graphical superiority of the Vibrant put some 3D games on it.
Col.Kernel said:
Really? Try moving a couch (or an entire house) with one.
Seriously, get the right tool for the right job.
More to the point, if you want to demonstrate the graphical superiority of the Vibrant put some 3D games on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The purpose of a car is to provide transportation of something faster/easier than other means(walking, bicycle, rollerblading) i.e. convenience . You could move a couch with a Ferrari anyways, I take it you have never looked under a license plate before. (it would also do a lot better job at it than most cars)
Cars were not created to move couches, sorry buddy.
XDA posters are really starting to make me question if it is worth my time to log in.
what a DA
Mark271 said:
Essentially, you think the OP is asking what uses a GPU. Anything you see uses the GPU. The Vibrant does it all better. What you can tell the difference on is completely subjective to the person in a lot of ways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not too smart or just playing dumb, but ill play along. the op is asking what best displays the power of the gpu. like i have a ferrari and i want to show how much better than a prius it is, where can i go to show its full power.
Well, the iPhone4 uses the SGX535 for its gpu. The hummingbird uses the superior SGX540. And the G2 uses the Adreno 205. They're all great GPUs, but there's not much software out there which is designed to push it to its limits yet. Most Android games out there are designed to be playable on the NexusOne and Droid, so they're not gonna push the limits just yet.
ID Software is working on a game called RAGE. let's see how well the galaxy s runs this game compared to the nexus one! the gpu is more powerful. it runs faster, pushes more polygons, and has smoother textures. you won't notice any difference until games like RAGE are released. then you'll start to see the difference in these phones. the galaxy s phones, and those running the Tegra2 chipset are going to run away with it.
Mark271 said:
The purpose of a car is to provide transportation of something faster/easier than other means(walking, bicycle, rollerblading) i.e. convenience . You could move a couch with a Ferrari anyways, I take it you have never looked under a license plate before. (it would also do a lot better job at it than most cars)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Riiiiiiight. So you're not talking about the type of vehicle that Ferrari is famous for, the little 2 seater sports cars.
I'd like to see the pic of you attempting to move a couch with one of those.
Mark271 said:
Cars were not created to move couches, sorry buddy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No kidding? That was my original point. Glad your Detect Obvious meter is working today.
Mark271 said:
XDA posters are really starting to make me question if it is worth my time to log in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now this is the first smart thing you've said the entire conversation.
I'm new here, where's the Ignore button? If I want to deal with obnoxious 12 year olds I can go to the Star Wars:TOR boards or 10 billion other places on the 'Net.
NM, found the Ignore button.
Maybe I'm way outta line here but I expect some intelligence on a board devoted to development. Or at the very least, logic.
Now quit derailing this guy's thread. I won't be replying to you.
Leave it to xda to not answer the question at hand.
Mark271 said:
It can do things faster. Both a Prius and Ferrari can drive 100 meters, why is the Ferrari better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sherlock Homes are we? No **** it can do things faster, I'm trying to see what it actually does better/where we can actually see a difference.
Besides, Ferrari > Prius is an opinion.
PaiPiePia said:
But Ferrari has no practice purpose for as a daily city driver. In the GPU perspective, it's like having a powerful GPU but no software to use the potential.
I believe OP is asking what software can make use of our GPU to its fullest extend.
I say it's emulators, the GPU benefits emulators more than anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least someone gets it.
Mark271 said:
A Ferrari has just as much purpose as any other car?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some cars can tow, some cars can go more than 10 miles without having to refuel, some cars can carry 2.5 people, some cars can hold more than a week's grocery, etc. etc. I'm not a doctor, but I am pretty sure the typical supercar can't do any of those.
Mark271 said:
The purpose of a car is to provide transportation of something faster/easier than other means(walking, bicycle, rollerblading) i.e. convenience . You could move a couch with a Ferrari anyways, I take it you have never looked under a license plate before. (it would also do a lot better job at it than most cars)
Cars were not created to move couches, sorry buddy.
XDA posters are really starting to make me question if it is worth my time to log in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The irony, it's delicious!
Col.Kernel said:
Riiiiiiight. So you're not talking about the type of vehicle that Ferrari is famous for, the little 2 seater sports cars.
I'd like to see the pic of you attempting to move a couch with one of those.
No kidding? That was my original point. Glad your Detect Obvious meter is working today.
Now this is the first smart thing you've said the entire conversation.
I'm new here, where's the Ignore button? If I want to deal with obnoxious 12 year olds I can go to the Star Wars:TOR boards or 10 billion other places on the 'Net.
NM, found the Ignore button.
Maybe I'm way outta line here but I expect some intelligence on a board devoted to development. Or at the very least, logic.
Now quit derailing this guy's thread. I won't be replying to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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I see why Samsung doesn't care about it's smart customers figuring out problems with its devices, it has all these stupid ones that will keep buying it. Any car can tow a couch, you must have never heard of Uhaul.
Back on point, IT IS A GRAPHICS PROCESSOR. Name graphics that need processed and the Vibrant does it better. Movies, video games, youtube high definition videos, ANYTHING you can see on this phone is better than any other non SGS android phone because of it's GPU. It is completely subjective which ones you can tell the difference on, some people can tell the difference between 55 and 60 fps, others cannot tell the difference between 30 and 60
Mark271 said:
I see why Samsung doesn't care about it's smart customers figuring out problems with its devices, it has all these stupid ones that will keep buying it. Any car can tow a couch, you must have never heard of Uhaul.
Back on point, IT IS A GRAPHICS PROCESSOR. Name graphics that need processed and the Vibrant does it better. Movies, video games, youtube high definition videos, ANYTHING you can see on this phone is better than any other non SGS android phone because of it's GPU. It is completely subjective which ones you can tell the difference on, some people can tell the difference between 55 and 60 fps, others cannot tell the difference between 30 and 60
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're basically asking, what can I do to see the difference between video cards or what will show it? Think about it this way, the g2 has a radeon 4800 and the vibrant has a radeon 4850. They do the same thing, one is better at it.
P.S. I just realized using analogies on the XDA forums is like explaining electromagnetic currents to a psychology major. I don't expect the previous repliers to my post to get this either.
this is like comparing the xbox360 to the xbox, or the ps3 to the ps2. or even better, a 2GHz dual core AMD anthlon cpu vs. the 3.2GHz AMD Phenon x6 multicore processor. they all have the same functions, but the faster more powerful ones do things faster, and more efficiently. we don't see a huge difference in the graphics yet, because there isn't any games that even come close to pushing the galaxy s gpu to it's limits. like i said, the first game that may actually push it, looks to be RAGE, from ID software. other 1GHz phones, such as the EVO 4g, may not be able to play this game considering it has a weaker gpu. whereas, the galaxy s should run this game smoothly. also, RAGE may also include options with the graphics. you may be able to turn on/off certain special effects/graphical features, depending what phone you have. with so many different phones, with a multitude of abilities, games may start being designed for the top of the line phones, with the most powerful cpu/gpus, but may give the ability to tone down the graphics for those with lesser phones. as for now, the gpu in the galaxy s is one of the best, if not the best gpu in today's phones. we don't see it as much as we should for the mere fact that there is nothing that is pushing it to it's limits. it may be a waste for the moment, but at least we are ready to future titles that will push the graphics to it's limits.
nemesys06 said:
this is like comparing the xbox360 to the xbox, or the ps3 to the ps2. or even better, a 2GHz dual core AMD anthlon cpu vs. the 3.2GHz AMD Phenon x6 multicore processor. they all have the same functions, but the faster more powerful ones do things faster, and more efficiently. we don't see a huge difference in the graphics yet, because there isn't any games that even come close to pushing the galaxy s gpu to it's limits. like i said, the first game that may actually push it, looks to be RAGE, from ID software. other 1GHz phones, such as the EVO 4g, may not be able to play this game considering it has a weaker gpu. whereas, the galaxy s should run this game smoothly. also, RAGE may also include options with the graphics. you may be able to turn on/off certain special effects/graphical features, depending what phone you have. with so many different phones, with a multitude of abilities, games may start being designed for the top of the line phones, with the most powerful cpu/gpus, but may give the ability to tone down the graphics for those with lesser phones. as for now, the gpu in the galaxy s is one of the best, if not the best gpu in today's phones. we don't see it as much as we should for the mere fact that there is nothing that is pushing it to it's limits. it may be a waste for the moment, but at least we are ready to future titles that will push the graphics to it's limits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ding ding, somebody gets it.
Gigamaster89 said:
Leave it to xda to not answer the question at hand.
Sherlock Homes are we? No **** it can do things faster, I'm trying to see what it actually does better/where we can actually see a difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously, man? Is it douchebag hour at home? It's a GPU. It's just ****ing faster than other GPUs. It's not going to give you a reach-around if you love it enough.
You want to see actual differences? Go get a friend with an Evo and play Asphalt side by side.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RkfWYxgfU0&p=F9C3D79BA94C26EA&playnext=1&index=18
quit arguing, it makes you all look like idiots in a tech forum...
What is it from my OP that people don't understand?
I explicitly said I know the Vibrant's GPU is better so obviously it's faster, I don't need you to tell me that.
I was asking what it can actually do better because I'm debating on picking up G2 but specs wise, people say the GPU is better. So yeah, it's better, but I would like to know where and how we can see this difference in graphical power. As far as I know, watching movies and playing a majority of the games in the market right now, there is no noticeable difference.
Is that clear enough for you guys? Or maybe the next few idiotic posters can just continue to tell me IT'S FASTER.
Gigamaster89 said:
What is it from my OP that people don't understand?
I explicitly said I know the Vibrant's GPU is better so obviously it's faster, I don't need you to tell me that.
I was asking what it can actually do better because I'm debating on picking up G2 but specs wise, people say the GPU is better. So yeah, it's better, but I would like to know where and how we can see this difference in graphical power. As far as I know, watching movies and playing a majority of the games in the market right now, there is no noticeable difference.
Is that clear enough for you guys? Or maybe the next few idiotic posters can just continue to tell me IT'S FASTER.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gonna repeat what I said few posts above, its gotta be emulators.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
First, let me tell you, I really love Google and Android. I would never buy an iDevice because - well - I don't love Apple.
After watching all YouTube videos and reading all rare tests, I was very excited about the Galaxy Tab 7.7. Nice specs, super speedy, great display, etc...
Today I got it - more or less by accident - and with full of expectations I turned it on to show it to my colleagues. In the videos I saw every device jerking and stuttering and I thought: ok, all these widgets and live wallpaper - I will remove them and then this thing will fly!
Fly? Pfff.... "Smooth" is a foreign word for this device. Even with NO widgets on the screen and only some icons on one page the old Transformer TF101 is faster and a lot smoother! Hell, even my 2 years old single core HTC Desire is a rocket compared to it! I can't believe, that Samsung is not able to get a halfway smooth experience with a dualcore, 1.4Ghz CPU!
As I told you, I don't love Apple, but they get a super smooth experience on a 600 to 800 Mhz, 4 years old device while I NEVER saw this on ANY Android device. If you are honest and compare these 2 systems, Apple has done just a better job performance wise.
I don't think the hardware is not able to render menus, zooms and lists smoothly. Google has to improve it. Samsung did its job by adding the ugly touchwiz, which brought the performance down to zero.
A guy wrote on his blog, that Android will never be smooth, because of its system. It just can't be. Never. Google has to rewrite the code to get it smooth.
It's just awkward if you present your iColleagues the "new best device" on the market just to be laughed at when everything stutters. Pfff... I really hope that Google makes performance the number 1 priority in future Android versions so no iDiots can laugh at one. That's really awkward and I'm really disappointed...
Maybe I exaggerate now, and to be honest there are more important things in life. But it's just sad, that after years Google is not able to make it smooth like Apple had it from the beginning. Apple has done nothing than taking existing things, put them together and make them smooth with an eye for the detail. This I'm missing in Android. An eye for the detail.
hudl said:
Fly? Pfff.... "Smooth" is a foreign word for this device. Even with NO widgets on the screen and only some icons on one page the old Transformer TF101 is faster and a lot smoother! Hell, even my 2 years old single core HTC Desire is a rocket compared to it! I can't believe, that Samsung is not able to get a halfway smooth experience with a dualcore, 1.4Ghz CPU!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you might have received a defective unit. I have a TF101 and the new Tab 7.7 sitting in front of me right now, and when the TF101 is set to it's stock max clock of 1ghz I can notice a slightly faster response from the Tab 7.7.
It's not a big difference, but it's there. Perhaps you were comparing your stock clocked Tab 7.7 @ 1.4GHZ to a 1.6GHZ overclocked TF101?
If you really want to wow your friends, search for 1080p in youtube (or download from Nvidia) and play the Nvidia PureVideo HD 1080p Test on multiple devices at the same time. It is mind boggling how much better the colors look/pop on the Tab 7.7's AMOLED display. (Yes, I know that the screen is only 1280x800 and therefore scaling)
Oh, and that blog post you are talking about. It's from a bygone Google intern.
I did some benchmarking:
Quadrant: 4088
Smartbench 2012: Productivity: 2692, Gaming: 1719
CF-Bench: 12622,2470,6530
Linpack: Single: ~53, Multi: ~85
So, these results are great and I don't think my Tab is defect (my TF101 was stock btw.). But what I mean is user experience. Videos are great looking and video performance is also impressive, but I rarely watch videos (I use my 12"Lenovo x201 Tablet for this) and benchmarks don't count for real world usage. I always get micro stutters and REALLY bad is the performance when adding widgets (I mean really bad!) or going into the app drawer. There is nothing to hide. I don't think that the hardware is the cause for that. It's just software.
And you are right, the blog I was talking about was from an Ex-Google guy. But if we are honest, he is right - Goolge has to improve user experience to compete with others (WP7 is also smoother with less CPU power for example). I don't mind if that means breaking things - if everyone is excited and buys devices, the devs will surely rewrite the apps. Or make a (slow) compatibility mode or something like this. For now Android grew because of its price - it would be fine, if it would grow because of user experience imho...
I hope ICS will improve it. A lot...
hudl said:
I did some benchmarking:
Quadrant: 4088
Smartbench 2012: Productivity: 2692, Gaming: 1719
CF-Bench: 12622,2470,6530
Linpack: Single: ~53, Multi: ~85
So, these results are great and I don't think my Tab is defect (my TF101 was stock btw.). But what I mean is user experience. Videos are great looking and video performance is also impressive, but I rarely watch videos (I use my 12"Lenovo x201 Tablet for this) and benchmarks don't count for real world usage. I always get micro stutters and REALLY bad is the performance when adding widgets (I mean really bad!) or going into the app drawer. There is nothing to hide. I don't think that the hardware is the cause for that. It's just software.
And you are right, the blog I was talking about was from an Ex-Google guy. But if we are honest, he is right - Goolge has to improve user experience to compete with others (WP7 is also smoother with less CPU power for example). I don't mind if that means breaking things - if everyone is excited and buys devices, the devs will surely rewrite the apps. Or make a (slow) compatibility mode or something like this. For now Android grew because of its price - it would be fine, if it would grow because of user experience imho...
I hope ICS will improve it. A lot...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried adding a widget to my screen and I did notice stuttering the first time, however every time I added a widget after that was very smooth. I haven't noticed any stuttering while going into the app drawer.
When you talk about Google competing with others like WP7, what do you mean? Android's only real competition at this point is iOS:
http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/09/ios-marketshare-up-from-26-in-q3-to-43-in-octnov-2011/
Also, your comment about Android growing because of it's price is a rather simplified view. If price were truly the reason for it's growth then why do the majority of people (in the UK at least) choose to purchase one of the most expensive variants of Android hardware?
http://www.mobileburn.com/16862/news/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-is-top-selling-android-smartphone-in-uk
I want to see Android grow just as much as you do, but I don't seem to have the same disdain that you do for its current iteration.
I would agree with you to some extent. I was slightly disappointed too when I first turned it on. I was thinking why in hell such a great hardware is so logy? I think TW and HC but specifically TW makes the whole experience awkward. So as with my other Samsung android devices, I got rid of TW and installed AWD launcher. The experience is totally different. 7.7 is now smooth and fast and just works great.
Just give me a larger font, so I can read!!
+1. I have had absolutely no worries with response time, lag, videos, hang ups, stutters, app drawer response, etc. My only problem is I can read my 5.3" Note a heck of a lot easier than my 7.7" Tab. Now if ICS fixes that, I am good to go. I am very critical, and yes, Android does need to consolidate and be sure when they release updates, etc., they function as well as the iGuys do (don't like i) I don't use TW at all, never have, beyond the first 30 minutes, currently using ADWLauncher EX, extremely fast, reliable........
Everyone has their opinion, and I respect all, just I have found the 7.7 to be everything as advertised, only if I could read the text on the bloody thing!!
Please, no suggestions to increase font, anyway or anyhow, I have tried all and if you do this, you affect that, not worthy of discussion. ICS may resolve, at least, I am hopeful.
nascar24usa said:
Everyone has their opinion, and I respect all, just I have found the 7.7 to be everything as advertised, only if I could read the text on the bloody thing!!
Please, no suggestions to increase font, anyway or anyhow, I have tried all and if you do this, you affect that, not worthy of discussion. ICS may resolve, at least, I am hopeful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, the application name font in particular is quite small. Thankfully this should be fixed in ICS.
"For improved readability, you can also increase the default font size used across the system." - http://www.android.com/about/ice-cream-sandwich/
Perfect
Thanks for the specific quote:
"For improved readability, you can also increase the default font size used across the system."
Now, when will we get ICS, so we all can standardize our experience to each of our needs.
Thanks.
I'm looking to replace my 10.1 with one of these tabs. I will say that after running CM9 on my 10.1, anyone who is annoyed with performance the stock ROM has will love the difference should someone maintain CM9 for this device.
Performance is night and day on CM9. There are couple things keeping me from buying this right now and that's the fact that 32gb+ versions aren't available and that I question CM9 support for this tab. I think CM support will come eventually, so that's not the biggest factor holding me back of the two.
I'm positive once people are free from stock they can see just how well this tab will perform.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Honestly, this is kind of tiresome. Why bother with calling people iPeople and making it some kind of battle? You didn't invent anything so why act like it's somehow your technology versus theirs? People like their iPads and that's fine.
But I think you maybe should've at least checked the performance of the video you were going to display prior to show & tell time so this embarrassing scene didn't have to happen.
I just posted up a video that is slightly in response to this topic. Have a look! And while you're at it, check out my other vids!
hudl
I'm sympathetic to what you are saying. (See earlier discussion in thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1464192; Jade Eye Wolf's long reply has been quite helpful to me.)
Couple of questions:
1. Does using a different launcher make any difference to the subjective experience? (E.g., using ADW EX or GO Launcher EX instead of Touchwiz.) My own experience is definitely much better with ADW and GO (I settled eventually on this) than with Touchwiz, widgets and all.
2. What are the properties of the video you were playing. Could it be that it was encoded at an overly high rate? How does the same video play on the Asus? Could there be some codec issue?
Jade Eyed Wolf said:
I just posted up a video that is slightly in response to this topic. Have a look! And while you're at it, check out my other vids!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those who aren't interested in the hma5000 "slimstick" bluetooth handset, here is a link to the clip of his video that talks specifically about the Tab 7.7's performance, or you can skip to 3:30 manually.
http://youtu.be/8OHZbPv1Tsc?t=3m30s
Thanks for the video Jade Eyed Wolf, adwex looks to be very very fast on this device.
---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 PM ----------
nascar24usa said:
Thanks for the specific quote:
"For improved readability, you can also increase the default font size used across the system."
Now, when will we get ICS, so we all can standardize our experience to each of our needs.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome.
hudl said:
I did some benchmarking:
Quadrant: 4088
Smartbench 2012: Productivity: 2692, Gaming: 1719
CF-Bench: 12622,2470,6530
Linpack: Single: ~53, Multi: ~85
So, these results are great and I don't think my Tab is defect (my TF101 was stock btw.). But what I mean is user experience. Videos are great looking and video performance is also impressive, but I rarely watch videos (I use my 12"Lenovo x201 Tablet for this) and benchmarks don't count for real world usage. I always get micro stutters and REALLY bad is the performance when adding widgets (I mean really bad!) or going into the app drawer. There is nothing to hide. I don't think that the hardware is the cause for that. It's just software.
And you are right, the blog I was talking about was from an Ex-Google guy. But if we are honest, he is right - Goolge has to improve user experience to compete with others (WP7 is also smoother with less CPU power for example). I don't mind if that means breaking things - if everyone is excited and buys devices, the devs will surely rewrite the apps. Or make a (slow) compatibility mode or something like this. For now Android grew because of its price - it would be fine, if it would grow because of user experience imho...
I hope ICS will improve it. A lot...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just change your launcher... Yes TW launcher sucks, whatever the HW. And yes Samsung is to blame for this
The article you mention, even though quite interesting is from an ex Google INTERN... Not exactly a top gun either... even if he may be a very smart person
Anyway I can tell you: I have an original Tab, ie rather old HW and under BOCA ROM with Launcher Pro I don't get any stutter, even with many widgets (Oh and my Quadrant score after overclock is pretty close to yours ehehe. 3900ish)
Hopefully upcoming firmwares will fix your issue. But then again just changing your launcher should do the trick
TouchWiz is THE SUCK and absolutely evil! Honestly my Nook Color with its single core CPU felt faster with its optimized CM7 build.. I have used a Prime and there is no comparison. Everything is slower on the Tab but I think changing the launcher will help.
An obvious indication of the slow response is when you press the power button to wake the Tab up from sleep, the screen doesn't come on instantaneously. I mean WTF is up with THAT?
Sent from another Galaxy (Tab 7.7 via Tapatalk)
HoneyComb + touchwiz are SLOW!!!
Tried all sort of different launchers, seems like they are working better then stock... which REALLY REALLY SUCKS!!!
Anyhow, waiting for a proper ICS release, maybe that one will have a better launcher and will work better...
Have a nice day,
SK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rha2jJXCy8M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUaurAFNrrA
It is also explained and showed on this unboxing and walk through video.. Im not really sure if its TW or Andriod causing the lag but im hoping its just TW.
EDIT:
After watching JadeEye's post its now conclusive that its just TW.
Excellent
nascar24usa said:
Thanks for the specific quote:
"For improved readability, you can also increase the default font size used across the system."
Now, when will we get ICS, so we all can standardize our experience to each of our needs.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My eyes like a slightly bigger dpi settings, I would like 380 or something.
I can read my Note fine, but for the Galaxy 7.7, which I still need to find
a dealer for, I'd like to know if higher DPI is possible..
THat is.. until we get some icream and I can just size the font
lucid said:
My eyes like a slightly bigger dpi settings, I would like 380 or something.
I can read my Note fine, but for the Galaxy 7.7, which I still need to find
a dealer for, I'd like to know if higher DPI is possible..
THat is.. until we get some icream and I can just size the font
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that would require you to either shrink the screen or increase the resolution 4 times.
none possible at the moment
I just need text to be bigger throughout the whole operating system and applications.
Up close my eyes are 80%, which I think sucks. So i always bought the biggest
screen that comes with a phone. So after enjoying the note for a month, i heared about the 7.7 and now want/need that/.