i sure hope these get fixed in the coming months by our devs and cooks
i just got a chance to play with an old ATOM EXEC (64mb,qvga,520mhz.no 3g...etc). i was amazed on how much faster and snappier the device. i know that the screen has one fifth the pixels, but not everything is depending on graphics. here are some things i noticed ive grouped them into 5 differnt "benchmark classes
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
2-opening the windows directory takes about 1.5 seconds vs 4-5 seconds on my itje's 3.5rc1(one of the fastest roms i have tested. cold booting takes about half the time but thats to be expected due to the smaller windows folder.
3-opening demo PocketArtist is 6 seconds vs 8 on x1.
4-youtube videos using the application @normal quality setting does not lag at all. on my x1 it does sometimes when it is viewing while its finishing the download over wifi. m2d was not as good looking as tf3d but its so much smoother
5-navigating various parts of the OS (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) was just noticeably snappier on the EXEC. switching to landscape was faster on the X1 though
while the experience of the x1 is clearly better due to the screen,resolution,other phone features and all, i just cant but feel extremely disappointed with how things currently are especially the first observation.
I'm really interested in our cooks opinion on how performance may end up being improved in a major way in the coming few months in any of the above situations. I'm obviously interested in the first point as its very easy to notice compared to the other points. can we expect something worthwhile in terms of performance in wm6.5
btw i also tested a cooked dutty v4 htc diamond and i dont think the diamond was much better than the x1 in the performance.
I don't know if your x1 is customised or what, but so far my take is the X1 is the fastest winmo phones I ever own in the last few years, considering those I have owned include both smartphone and professional, wm5 and wm6 (touch pro, samsung i780, omnia, treo 500v, moto q9h, etc)
that reply was more fanboish than i would like it to be . i think the X1 (despite some problems) is the best htc phone made. but current generation QC-based phones (x1,tpro,hd and diamond) seem to be suffering from a performance problem and im not sure whats at blame.
are you noticing better performance than me?????? im using itje 3.5rc1
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
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Click to collapse
na....im totalli with you that ATOM EXEC is way faster than X1. no doubt. my frnd got an atom. but u hav 2 consider this
1. x1 resoution is 5times more as you said. thats like going from 800x600 resolution to 1920x1250. dats a HUGE jump and just imagine if just a ram and cpu upgrade is enogh to handle that kind of load.
2. also, i noticed that you r running tf3d. now installing that copies bout 1400 files into your windows folder. dat will take time.
3 .i don agree with apps running faster. youtube or PocketArtist, both run lot faster on x1.
4. navigation (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) is faster because, there are more things installed in you x1 than in your atom. also dont forget the fact that atom runs on lower resolution. a QVGA app that takes 200KB of RAM might take upto 2MB of ram when converted to WVGA.
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
THE GRIZZ said:
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well first thing as mention your running TF3d and that take up alot of the speed on your x1 i did reinstall of my phone to the newest orginal rom from se without any kind of tf3d and gotta say my phone was twice as fast when it had tf3d on it..also most of todays apps are not optimized for the newest phones out on the marked second try some real test with some games (eks Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 - Call of Duty 2 -) (convert some mp3s or videos on the phone) Test with some emulators like fpsece - pocketsnes - picodrive then you will hopefully see what your x1 is good for
i noticed when i have lot of apps open ..the phone becomes slow..and simple functions such as opening Menu's takes more than 1 second.
so when this happens.,..i use the 'FreeRam' of SKTools...and clear up everything.
then it becomes fast as before.
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
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Click to collapse
One of the major problems here is windows mobile. It's just a mess.
Another is the resolution. Even on 2d, it makes a hell lot of difference. There's like ... 500% more pixels, with only 50% more performance.
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you did look around in XDA, you should know that Qualcomm's CPU is well known for it poor performance (especially for 2D/3D). X1/HD is already the best you can get compare to Kaiser but still far left behind PDA w/ Intel Xscale CPU. See for yourself for Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYimU-VHM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6JyfmuPU&feature=related
Since it's bascially a hardware issue, there is not much we can do on it performance side. But X1 still my best one I can get base on it's overall features (3.5mm audio, USB 2.0, WVGA, UTMS w/ US's 850/1900), build quality, form factor, and of course it's look.
iPhone? It does have PowerVR chipset for graphic acceleration. And it's simply a joke for this date if I have to give up multi-tasking (for all 3rd party apps) for it's smooth and cool factor. My X1 is a workhorse and I want it to run IGo8 w/ Coreplayer player over A2DP/AVRCP concurrently.
Resolution does indeed play a big role. When I launch a program that needs WGAFIXv3 running, i notice how the framerate is practically doubled....
Hopefully Windows Mobile 6.5 will do justice just as Windows 7 is doing TREMENDOUS justice in terms of speed/performance. I finally appreciate the direction Microsoft is taking. It seems that ever since the introduction of Windows Media Player 7 (all versions up to 6 loaded in a SNAP and then 7 and up started taking forever to open unless you upgrade to the latest/fastest PC), back in the day, Microsoft's norm was to build more and more bulkier mega-code-loading software and this rubbed off on the mobile side of things too. Even SQL Server Express 2005 takes sooooooo long to load on PC's. Everything of theirs needed soooo much disk access to open up until Windows 7 came along.
So yeah I'm hoping a slimlined approach on the mobile platform will redeem the Windows Mobile brand
Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYi...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6J...eature=related
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Click to collapse
these things in the video are very CPU intensive stuff. the stuff im complaining about is far simpler stuff
i am talking about simple none 2d graphics intensive image scrolling and simple dialog boxes movements. surly this stuff is not that hard to handle. decoding mpeg4 video at full screen is surly FAAAAAR more work and yet the x1 does an OK job hadling it. choking at something like displaying dialog boxes, schrolling screen full of text, handling menu selections...etc fingermenu,ucweb, miniflow, album, s2v are hardly graphics intensive stuff
question: is anyone noticing much better results then mine on a lite or even naked ROM
anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
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Click to collapse
I have replied to your post on the Turbo X1 thread, there are some answers, but maybe not the magic bullet you and I have been both looking for.
after messing around to get speedbooster to work. i managed assign higher priority to some of the apps that are suffering. its giving some worthwhile enhancements nothing major though.
im begening to think that the only way we can get get improved performance and iphone-like "experiance" is for all the software need to be re-written to use the graphics hardware of the QC chipset. that does not look very likely even on future software since the majority of the avalable phones dont have it. writing software for wm requires it to be written for the lowest common denomiator hardware.
software for LCD hardware will continue to make WM software a bit ugly for a very long time indeed
I am quite mystified by threads such as these but I put it down to two things... 1, I am not such an intense nor knowledgable user as the OP of the thread and 2, I dont use my phone in the same way or do not expect it to be used as I would my laptop or have the same level of software as the OP of the thread...
TBH I have been amazed by the capability of this phone and am pleasantly surprised time and again by its speed, functionality and performance... most of my programs are up and running in incredibly short order, I can access menus and the like almost instantaneously and even the windows folder (previously the worst folder to access using file explorer time wise) is much faster now when I open it... (I have upgraded to the R2A ROM and its much much better)... I find that videos are very watchable and play with no lag and the audio/video in sync... overall its exactly what it says on the tin in my ever so humble experience... although in my own admission I am not very savvy when it comes to these things so perhaps I am misunderstanding the fact that it is supposed to be as fast and capable as my laptop...
even the new generation htc phones (diamond2, touchpro2 )are using the same QC msm7200a present in all common WM w/vga phones http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchdiamond2/specification.html .
i think its about time software development should focused on creeating two versions of the same software
-qvga for compatibility with any phohe (including non graphics accelerated vga phones)
-w/vga version with hardware acceleration since all htcphones released since the kiaser use it
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
THE GRIZZ said:
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Grizz,
I believe it's similar to the whole issue of being able to notice "ghosting" on LCD screens. I personally know what it is, but yet I don't care enough to want to bother about it. For others, some people may not know what ghosting is until you show it to them and once you have "opened their eyes", they irrevocably develop the habit of constantly taking note as it happens on their screens.
And I believe this is ultimately the same issue with the issues you describe. Some people are just really content and amazed with the fact that such a small little bugger can still pack a punch. Sure, it'll slip up once or there, but for the most part, people are happy with what they've spent on the phone.
My 3 cents,
Cheers.
THE GRIZZ said:
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the SD card tuneup could help you speeding up the off-board flash memory goving you more speed from SDHC then internal flash...
THE GRIZZ said:
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
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Click to collapse
One of the basic science rules is: if you gain on one thing you have to give in on other things.
Higher speed means higher power consumption. In time a higher speed will be possible with the same power consumption because the cpu size becomes smaller. But for that you will have to wait.
So what do you want? A speedy phone with unacceptable power consumption or do you want to timetravel to get the newest technology before we can imagine how it should look like ?
Related
My biggest concern, having followed the video performance thread here, is with the Opera experience. I've been using Opera 9.5 on my trusty Loox N560 (with a WM6 ROM) for a while.
The results on the VGA of this 4(+?) year old device are passable but the lag between a page loading and the screen rendering is quite painful as the page resolves from a series of grey boxes over about 10 seconds.
I want to present web work to clients on the HD and if the Opera experience still suffers like this it could be a problem for me.
Anyone with device in hand care to comment.
Many thanks!
There is still a lag on some large webpages with the grey squares. This does like i said depend on the size of the webpage and also the speed of your connection.
However i find the browsing experience a real treat on the HD.
Mark One said:
My biggest concern, having followed the video performance thread here, is with the Opera experience. I've been using Opera 9.5 on my trusty Loox N560 (with a WM6 ROM) for a while.
The results on the VGA of this 4(+?) year old device are passable but the lag between a page loading and the screen rendering is quite painful as the page resolves from a series of grey boxes over about 10 seconds.
I want to present web work to clients on the HD and if the Opera experience still suffers like this it could be a problem for me.
Anyone with device in hand care to comment.
Many thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, can't answer your request but:-
Ahhh the Loox N560.... what a lovely machine.
If you used to frequent FirstLoox you would have known my Father, he was one of the Mods.
Beards
Ahh - yes - beautiful 3.5 inch 640x480 screen, 624Mhz xscale processor, 193MB on board with wifi, BT & GPS. And a 3.5mm jack.
No phone of course, but the specs don't look bad even today. Which is why I've kept it going for so long.
Until the HD - which I thought was the answer to my dreams.
However, yet again it seems HTC have gone and shot a beautiful concept in the foot - I can't believe the video driver is an issue again - time to revive that class action suit?
If it's anywhere as bad as my polaris it's a deal breaker for me.
It's certianly a little laggy, especially with complex or rich websites. No deal breaker as long as you set your expectations.
Remember the HD has a bigger res and a slower CPU than your current phone.
A slower processor than a 3 year old PDA? That's not so great now is it...
Mark One said:
A slower processor than a 3 year old PDA? That's not so great now is it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've still got my Pocket Loox 720 (over 3yrs old) and it still works like a dream.
520 MHz CPU
VGA 640 x 480 pixel resolution
Both CF & SC card slots
3.5" speaker
Wifi
Bluetooth
Surfstar III Compactflash GPS
Excellent for playing movies (especially over my home network in the garden).
These older machines can still fly along and play games like Virtual Pool without even a stutter.
The only thing missing from it is being a phone.
Beards
I guess I should manage my expectations for the HD then. I was expecting it to fly compared to my old loox.
What happened - processors are still roughly on the Moore's Law curve right - so why is HTC going backwards?
Mark One said:
I guess I should manage my expectations for the HD then. I was expecting it to fly compared to my old loox.
What happened - processors are still roughly on the Moore's Law curve right - so why is HTC going backwards?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because HTC is using Qualcomm, and your old device has Intel. Qualcomm is newer and more advanced in that it has more things onboard, while with Intel you have to have a few more separate chips. This (and probably some good deal HTC got) should explain why HTC didn't opt for the faster (and less energy consuming) Intel platform, I guess.
Guys,
Never ever wanted to even bother about iPhone due to the fact that WinMo devices have almost endless custom apps available and tweaks etc.
That said...I played/fiddled with a mates iPod touch today and the speed at which animation took place and the scrolling of files was immensely smooth.
Anyone recommend any tweaks to help make the Touch HD run this smooth?
Wiggz said:
Guys,
Never ever wanted to even bother about iPhone due to the fact that WinMo devices have almost endless custom apps available and tweaks etc.
That said...I played/fiddled with a mates iPod touch today and the speed at which animation took place and the scrolling of files was immensely smooth.
Anyone recommend any tweaks to help make the Touch HD run this smooth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy an iphone 3GS!
Come on...seriously. Can the HD not perform to that level then?
You could try flashing a new ROM??
There's a huge difference between "smoothness" and "speed"!
While the iPhone's UI is VERY smooth, it's actually slower than the Touch HD (for the iPhone 3G, the 3GS is now a bit faster due to the Cortex A8 processor architecture).
The level of smoothness depends on the software. While Windows Mobile was designed for slow hardware and therefore is pretty fast on newer devices, it was not designed for finger use and therefore doesn't feature that smooth kinetic scrolling and nice animations.
Sorry, but you can't have an interface that's as "nice looking" as the iPhone's for now, though I think TouchFlo is already pretty good and leaves little to be desired.
Also, try out Miri's or Dutty's WM6.5 ROM and you'll at least get that smooth kinetic scrolling and bigger, nicer looking list items.
The iPhone's interface may look nice and smooth, but it's actually less practical for "professional" use because you don't have multitasking, you only get a bunch of icons, you've got to go back to the homescreen every time you want to switch between applications and there's no good solution for notifications (like the top bar on WM).
I agree - I'm not disputing that Touch HD is a better unit for professionals...and indeed myself...I'm just trying to get the smoothness to rival it.
Have you tried WM6.5? Microsoft has added kinetic scrolling to it.
No, I'm trying to stay with stock ROM
Then you must replace the default WM applications with "smoother" ones. I've made a package with finger friendly applications a while ago:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=473116&highlight=finger+friendly
You can use applications like ThumbCal, Kinoma Play, iContact etc. and make them the default ones via the registry.
The package is a bit outdated and I don't use it anymore because with WM6.5 and the newest TouchFlo it's not necessary.
Wiggz,
I spend the last hour doing my homework and I've found some useful tweaks that speeds up the interface a little bit.
First and foremost, read through this thread.
Having said that, I suggest you use some form of registry explorer and look for the following things.
FontCache / Glyphcache - Located at
HKLM\SYSTEM\GDI\GLYPHCACHE\
The limit should be 8192, if not, record that number and keep it somewhere so that if it doesn't turn out to be stable for you, you can revert it. Change this limit to 65536.
File System Cache - Located at
HKLM\System\StorageManager\FATFS\CacheSize
The limit should be 0 by default. Change this value to 8192. Also, in the same section, you'll see something called EnableCache. The value of that should be 1, if it's 0, change it to 1 to enable file system cache.
File System Filter Cache - Located at
HKLM\System\StorageManager\Filters\fsreplxfilt\ReplStoreCacheSize
The limit should be 0 by default as well. Change this value to 131072.
After doing these settings, do a soft reset and see what happens? Noticeable differences should be seen in Opera. If you find that you get instability as a result of these cache differences, simply reduce the numbers by dividing them by 2 (e.g., 65536 > 32768).
I hope this helps you get that iPhone fluidity that you're looking for.
Cheers.
Credits goes to this thread by vincent1 and this thread by hyphen.
if you like iphone interface ... buy an iphone for dummies ....
HD is better faster and superior ....
if you want more speed and iphone interface install Vito winterface or better mobile shell 3 the iphone UI killer
You can also buy a Samsung Omnia 2: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=5734
Looks pretty smooth, hm?
You can also buy a Samsung Omnia 2: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=5734
Looks pretty smooth, hm?
The iPhone is indeed smoother and more fluid. There is no tweak, custom Rom or other today plugin that can give you the same experience and still deliver the ease, clean looks and functionality in one package. Believe me, I've tried them all and thus got an iPhone
In theory the HD might be faster, but in practice it isn't. WinMo is fundamentaly flawed in many ways. Graphicly 6.5 is a joke, that's why every manufacturer (samsung, HTC...) are trying so hard to cover it up. And let's not forget iPhone's 3D capabilities!
The HD had potential, but HTC and microsoft failed (again) IMO.
The amount of apps shouldn't be the reason to buy the HD. Many apps don't support WVGA and the iPhone's appstore has thousands of programs and is growing fast. Some free, some not. It's nice to see a lot of iPhone apps are far more 'creative' and utilize multitouch.
While the iPhone interface seems smoother at first glance, it is actually slower because there's no multitasking and you have to close the application you're in and go back to the home screen in order to launch another application. This slows down the workflow dramatically.
When I got the iPhone 3G, at first I also was stunned by how smooth the UI was, but after some weeks of using it, I realized that the UI was actually pretty ineffective because you can only have that bunch of icons, no information on the homescreen, no multitasking and there's no good solution for notifications.
While the WM interface looks a bit "old", it's actually more effective/productive in my opinion.
You should really try out Miri's or Dutty's latest WM6.5 ROMs, the new Manila is a lot better and the kinetic scrolling makes for a huge difference imo.
I agree that with the shipped ROM or with a badly configured ROM the Touch HD seems a little "stucky" and not that smooth or fast as an iPhone (and especially the 3GS). But have you tried some good cooked ROMs? Especially the new WM 6.5 releases are VERY fast and smooth.
Almost all my collegues own an iPhone (3G). In the beginning they laughed at me (they're all Apple addicts, I am the only PC user). But with every new ROM I flashed I astonished them more and more. Now two of them even sold their iPhones
maati,
You kept saying that iPhone 3G is slower and 3GS is only slightly faster. I find this not to be the case at all. My cousins has both 3G and 3GS and we sat down few days ago and did a side by side comparison surfing some websites. We're on the same network. Both 3G and 3GS beats my HD by miles in speed. 3G still beats mine but by not much but for 3GS the difference is very noticeable.
I'm still using stock ROM, but I'm not sure if ROM makes any difference to Opera mobile's speed.
The thing is, iPhone is fast out of the box, no tweaking is needed. Whereas I'm struggling still with the randomly non-reponding screen. I still find myself having to press very hard to activate actions on my HD. Sometimes nothing happens after 5 or 6 presses, then suddenly a rapid strings of reactions comes, and it overshot what I actually wanted to do. I had the same problem with my HTC advantage with its cook ROMs. Everytime I flash a new ROM, the desktop UI is fast (though it seldom have any influence on the underlying applications) for a while but it usually quickly deteriorate once more tweaking and softwares are loaded.
Not only that, when she showed me her applications and walk though with me some of the 65,000 applications in the apple store, I was just dumbfounded. I had always ridiculed her for not using what I had always believe to be the most superior phone, which to me was window mobile phones.
So to tell the truth, I'm lately extremely tempted to jump ship myself.
I was not talking about surfing the internet. This depends on where you are and which network you are on (e.g. where I live, the Touch HD is faster than the 3G, especially on fast HSDPA networks).
I was talking about stuff like opening applications, everyday tasks. The HD does them faster than the 3G, especially when you leave the applications running in the background. And even with lots of applications running in the background, the HD's battery life is significantly better.
Maybe it's because I know how to use it (e.g. don't press more than once on a button just because it doesn't react immediately) but I've got no problem with the responsiveness of the HD. I even think it's a bit better than on the iPhone where some applications are also pretty slugish (though the resistive screen needs more force). And my iPhone crashed at least as often as my Touch HD (I think about once in 2-3 weeks with no soft reset).
(btw. I'm talking only about the iPhone 3G which I used together with the Touch HD for some weeks. I only tried the 3GS once.)
IMO...
speed = yes
smoothness and fluidy = no
(there is a difference but WinMo is just not designed to be smooth overall like the iPhone)
Wiggz said:
Guys,
Never ever wanted to even bother about iPhone due to the fact that WinMo devices have almost endless custom apps available and tweaks etc.
That said...I played/fiddled with a mates iPod touch today and the speed at which animation took place and the scrolling of files was immensely smooth.
Anyone recommend any tweaks to help make the Touch HD run this smooth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Wiggz,
if u want a UI which has speed on WM6.1 then i recommend Point UI. it is finger friendly and the kinetic scrolling speed is great. with customizing it; there are a large no. of applets which r all free from the community page on their website
try it out...ive been using it for a while now and ill never go back to touch flo 3D. If u buy PointUI pro or find a cracked one somewhere then this increases the detachment from WM UI as u have a full contact card and no longer need 2 use Wm's ugly one. if u choose to download either version a great Applet mod is the Messaging Mod which lets u read ur SMS with out going to the WM app.
Well, as I am using Sense 2.5 on a Touch Pro2, I do know that I cannot expect it to run fast, but I'm curious whether it is possible to remove some "effects", like the reflection of cover arts in the music tab, to speed the whole thing up a bit.
Any input greatly appreciated!
The only response I got when I asked that question was that we do not have the snap dragon processor....sounded like a bogus answer to me.
Why would that be a bogus answer? We're still talking about a device that's almost twice (!) as fast (only counting mhz). I can imagine that Sense2.5 compared to 2.1 asks for more processing power.
I've tried different 2.5 and 2.1 roms, and although I really love the 2.5 interface I'd rather have a snappy device. I did try to run utilities like ram cleaning/advanced config/etc to try and make the ui run faster, but it wasn't sufficient enough for me. The reason to try out some 2.5 roms was the integration of the music player, contacts tab and other nifty changes like entering an appointment. I really hope these will be available in the future as a separate cab or something.
The snapdragon processor is more than twice as fast than our old clunker msm72xx, in benchmarks and nearly in sheer mhz. Check out the benchmarks yourselves, the Snapdragon destroys our in every category. Also, chainfire has made some modifications to the snapdragon driver which in some areas has more than doubled performance.
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009/09/28/htc-leo-hd2-benchmarks/
http://pocketnow.com/thought/competitive-benchmarks-hd-vs-hd2
Overall the HD2 ousts the HD (runs a msm720x same as our TP2) by 275% overall and nearly 2000% in specific categories. Then as I said, chainfire has boosted the snapdragon abilities well beyond stock.
Seen here : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=592663
Amazing work.
There isn't a slight difference, there is a huge difference, the Snapdragon takes our msm720x to town and back again.
What I meant by that was I find it hard to believe that our current processor could not handle something as simple as making the manila graphics in both the music and pics tab snappier when going from portrait to landscape. think about it. we need a processor thats twice as fast as our to handle that? thats what I meant by bogus.
I do not understand what is in the slightest bit bogus. The software (m2.5) wasn't designed or optimized for our current hardware, how could we ever expect it to run as fast as it does for the hardware it was deisgned for? Esp when the hardware it was designed for is more than twice as fast as our current hardware...
This is like unto complaining that your old PII Dell desktop doesn't run Crysis well, I'm sorry but the argument has no grounds.
ok........
Scrtcwlvl said:
I do not understand what is in the slightest bit bogus. The software (m2.5) wasn't designed or optimized for our current hardware, how could we ever expect it to run as fast as it does for the hardware it was deisgned for? Esp when the hardware it was designed for is more than twice as fast as our current hardware...
This is like unto complaining that your old PII Dell desktop doesn't run Crysis well, I'm sorry but the argument has no grounds.
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I think you misunderstood my question in the first place ...
I'm not aiming to complain about Sense 2.5 not running as fast on a Touch Pro2 as on a HD2, I simply asked, whether it was possible (with some capabilities in editing manila files) to remove effects, like the reflection of album arts or animations or something similiar, to speed it up.
I don't want a miracle to happen, I'm just asking whether the effects can be customized to make them appropriate for our device (performance wise).
As I have seen that in the new max 2.6 beta the flip animation on the homescreen was removed due to lacking perfomance on the Touch Pro2/HD for example, I thought that this might be possible.
Hope somebody who doesn't just want to tell me the performance difference of the Pro2/HD2 might answer me ^^
First of all, thank you so much for your hard work and your noble strife to improve HTC HD2, a phone in much need of so.
Now to a more seriuos matters, I been testing out ROM´s now (around 15 different ones atm), and i get some striking matches that i want to ask about, all this on my HTC HD2.
Everybody wants to talk of Speed, 576mb, Clocked CPU, HD2 now super fast etc. And my question is the same as to HTC them selfs (boasting all this horsepower and falling so flat), why is menys and scrolling still lagging and showing .... in lack of words, Screen Tearing. Why on earth cant i in phone contacts, or file browsers, start meny, or any darn meny you like, scroll up or down and not feel like the phone is on a bumpy road? Dont know if any of you understand what i talk of, cause i havent seen any talk of it.
In some ways (Like through a non programer like me) it seems like hole darn windows is on some kind of grid, where the menys have to move through tiny bumps to move ahead. Anybody that can shine some light on this.
Im not new to phones, but im no hotshot also. So i want to make sure i made everything correct.
1. Install HSPL
2. Install ROM of liking
3. Hold your thumbs
As you may understand, i have in my own little world pretty humble visions. Fast everyday usage, ither in Windows or in Sense, does not matter. No lagg at all, pure speeeeeeeed. Is this really achivble? I must say im very dissepointed with the HD2´s performance.
Best Regards
Peder Nakazul Tjärnberg
Sweden HTC, Iphone, Motorola, Samsung User.
I understand what you mean..
Sometimes when flipping from the today in sense to view all 9 programs there is some kind of lag... the start menu also isnt that smooth..
Thats why MS started Windows Phone 7 development from Scratch! Now it will be much more fluid, smoother transistions rather than this messed up piece of code called WM6!
Tanmay® said:
Thats why MS started Windows Phone 7 development from Scratch! Now it will be much more fluid, smoother transistions rather than this messed up piece of code called WM6!
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Thats so true...
But I'm still standing here with my 3 months old HD2..
And we have to wait until next month to hear if our devices is going to get the update or not..
My guess would be that they simply purposedly limited scrolling fps to save battery.
kilrah said:
My guess would be that they simply purposedly limited scrolling fps to save battery.
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But since i must once again give you all programmers cudos, if it was a reduction by Microsoft, wouldnt you all have fixed that already?
Thnx for fast replyes btw. So its basiclly because Windows Mobile 6.5 builds on old programming then?
As you speak of screen tearing, that's also something quite common that you can get on a PC too, mostly noticeable when playing videos or games, and is due to non-synchronisation of screen refresh and image generation. The program creates a new image and sends it to the display buffer while the previous image is being sent to the display. Result is that the first half of the image that ends on the display is the previous frame, and the second half is the new one.
To prevent tearing the technique is to wait until the display finishes showing a full image before sending the new one.
A reason for the "slow" fps could simply be that the screen can't be refreshed faster due to hardware limits, which is totally possible with such a high resolution display.
Personally I don't find it "slow", of course when you put it side by side with an iphone it's definitely slower, but the iphone has a crap resolution... and I definitely prefer the HD2's screen resolution to slightly smoother srolling.
Kilrah, so you mean, basicly, if a better grahic driver could be created it could be solved? I mean do we even have any REAl graphic drivers, exept OpenGL and Chainfires 3d patch that are good, but not enough apperently?
have you toyed with the tweaks in THIS thread?
I have a noticably smoother sense sinse applying them.
Be warned thoughm, some of them will lock up the wrong phone. (I.e watch out for 576 mb tweaks on a non 576mb rom)
Maybe, maybe not. If it's hardware related, no way. Would need to know what the screen refresh frequency is, and anyhigher refresh obviously wouldn't be possible.
kilrah said:
As you speak of screen tearing, that's also something quite common that you can get on a PC too, mostly noticeable when playing videos or games, and is due to non-synchronisation of screen refresh and image generation. The program creates a new image and sends it to the display buffer while the previous image is being sent to the display. Result is that the first half of the image that ends on the display is the previous frame, and the second half is the new one.
To prevent tearing the technique is to wait until the display finishes showing a full image before sending the new one.
A reason for the "slow" fps could simply be that the screen can't be refreshed faster due to hardware limits, which is totally possible with such a high resolution display.
Personally I don't find it "slow", of course when you put it side by side with an iphone it's definitely slower, but the iphone has a crap resolution... and I definitely prefer the HD2's screen resolution to slightly smoother srolling.
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In my opinion this cant be the reason. Have you ever scrolled in p.ex. TouchTwit1.6 ? It is 100% (!) fluid. So there is some Software around that shows us that it can be different...
I've tried many 3D games, for example:
- Speed Forge 3D
- Quake 1
- Quake 2
- TinyWarz
None of them runs perfectly.
So if you want to be able some smooth 3D games, just pass HTC Hero, take a look at Motorola Milestone (powered by 600Mhz ARM Cortex) it performs way better (even if it has 2x2 larger resolution)
Some comparison videos
hero: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTDdiq21EOc
milestone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ7qbqSnLU0
Qualcomm MSM7200A 528 MHz sucks (as i've haven't already know this.. my fault). It really show it's weakness when you run several task at the same time: download someting, listen to music and try to browse the internet/navigate to menus, etc.
I load websites on the browser quite often and the experience is not snappy on complex sites. For example the scrolling in pocketnow.com is so slow..
Beside of the CPU, HTC Hero is a cool phone. Too bad that HTC chosed this poor cpu.
i dont find the phone that bad on games. websites are also fine, on the pocketnow.com site you mentioned i can shoot about the page with blistering speed and i mean drag my finger all over fast with no lag..
Have you tried a different rom?
Speed Forge 3D is fine on my Hero. mcr 3.2 b5
@anarchyuk I haven't tried any ROM. My hero had already the latest HTC firmware..
@deejay300 by fine, do you mean like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxGrjxuyEU . Compare with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ7qbqSnLU0 #0.22
You will see the difference
Much better than the hero video. I would say that that was pretty shocking in that first video. Obviously the hero isn't quite as smooth as the droid but it was pretty close.
Pretty much the same as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK_d...E2D406D9&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=19
Yeah, poor 3D and 90% of the users don't care.
If you want to play 3D game, buy a console and let people that love the agenda, contacts, GPS, mail, Internet enjoying their device.
They are as you said more strong and better devices for games! Buy them.
What I don't understand is why you even post such a topic, purely to bash the qualcomm cpu?
Reading you're sig makes it even more funny that you nag about the hero, knowing it wouldn't be able to outrun any phone with the same cpu.
So if you expected more it's you're own fault.
As you said 90% of the hero users did know about the 3d performance of the hero and don't nag. Are satisified. Those people thought before they bought.
You obviously didn't, don't come and nag to us about it...
There was a hope that the this qualcomm cpu run better in Android (and as general UI is smoother than WM).
I really don't understand why people just told the good parts of a device. The people should know that htc hero doesn't renders flash video perfectly, for example.
I like Hero, I really like the phone (even if it has many lacks, hope it will be fixed soon) but I want to tell others about its negative aspects. So people which want pure performance should pass this phone.
@profete162 let's be real. I surf a lot and the internet experience is not super great. The load time is not super good. Plus, flash experiance is far from perfect. Not to mention that on some sites the scrolling is soo laggin at least on mine (for eg: pocketnow.com). But yes, internet experience it's way better that the from my ex-WM (Touch Pro) one. I don't use the phone primary for games, but a nice 3D game from time to time it would be nice.
@deejay300 yes, still not smooth..
DSF said:
There was a hope that the this qualcomm cpu run better in Android (and as general UI is smoother than WM).
I really don't understand why people just told the good parts of a device. The people should know that htc hero doesn't renders flash video perfectly, for example.
I like Hero, I really like the phone (even if it has many lacks, hope it will be fixed soon) but I want to tell others about its negative aspects. So people which want pure performance should pass this phone.
@profete162 let's be real. I surf a lot and the internet experience is not super great. The load time is not super good. Plus, flash experiance is far from perfect. Not to mention that on some sites the scrolling is soo laggin at least on mine (for eg: pocketnow.com). But yes, internet experience it's way better that the from my ex-WM (Touch Pro) one. I don't use the phone primary for games, but a nice 3D game from time to time it would be nice.
@deejay300 yes, still not smooth..
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I think you should try a custom rom instead of the crappy stock htc one! adobe are rumoured to be releasing new versions of flash for certain handsets all the time that will work much better with web flash. So you never know you might get a better experience soon. Not so much if you go by http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/26/flash-10-1-snubbing-non-armv7-android-devices-too/ as the Qualcomm® MSM7200A is arm9!
I'm waiting the official 2.1 update from HTC, there are rumours that it will be released somewhere in march
And about the Flash 10 .. I don't know..
No, the HTC Hero will not be supported b/c it does not have the correct Android OS version and its chipset is not powerful enough. We require a device with an ARM v7 (Cortex) processor. Examples include the Qualcomm Snapdragon chipsets and TI OMAP3 series.
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http://gizmodo.com/5480985/why-most-current-android-phones-will-never-get-flash-101
DSF said:
There was a hope that the this qualcomm cpu run better in Android (and as general UI is smoother than WM).
I really don't understand why people just told the good parts of a device. The people should know that htc hero doesn't renders flash video perfectly, for example.
I like Hero, I really like the phone (even if it has many lacks, hope it will be fixed soon) but I want to tell others about its negative aspects. So people which want pure performance should pass this phone.
@profete162 let's be real. I surf a lot and the internet experience is not super great. The load time is not super good. Plus, flash experiance is far from perfect. Not to mention that on some sites the scrolling is soo laggin at least on mine (for eg: pocketnow.com). But yes, internet experience it's way better that the from my ex-WM (Touch Pro) one. I don't use the phone primary for games, but a nice 3D game from time to time it would be nice.
@deejay300 yes, still not smooth..
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I loved the HTC Hero - but the performance of its video playback was one of the reasons I quit and bought the Google Nexus One, which addresses just about all of the shortcomings. On the Nexus all my video podcasts and itunes music videos play without a glitch. Different roms were great but didn't solve some of the core performance issues. Still, the Hero was the greatest phone I had up until last year (and I had a lot!). It's great how these phones just keep getting better!
I dont see any lagging on my phone with these games.
even not with movies from torrent sites wich are mp4, doesnt matter what size, framerate or whatever they were encoded on, as long as it was mp4 or m4v it was great.
just downloaded the movies as an IPOD movie