Consumer Product Liability Law quote
"Products that malfunction or cause harm due to design flaws, manufacturing errors or inadequate warnings or directions are considered defective."
How much more time should we, consumers, give Samsung before asking Feds to help us? I personally would like to believe that consumers have rights, a concept that Samsung is not willing to accept.
For the curious ones, this post has to do with Samsung recalling the broken phones for the purpose of fixing them. For the ignorant ones, pat yourself on the back for accomplishing nothing again.
I suppose the other thread with people whining was not adequate?
You didnt even address what you are upset about? I assume GPS.... which is funny since the VAST MAJORITY on here have absolutely no issues.
Lawsuits and such
Krzysiek_CK said:
Consumer Product Liability Law quote "Products that malfunction or cause harm due to design flaws, manufacturing errors or inadequate warnings or directions are considered defective." How much more time should we, consumers, give Samsung before asking Feds to help us? I personally would like to believe that consumers have rights, a concept that Samsung is not willing to accept.
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Click to collapse
I'm assuming based on your other postings that this relates to GPS issues. I'll try to address your questions with as little drama as possible:
How much more time should we, consumers, give Samsung...
- After you have exhausted all other remedies. In some cases, never. Were you aware of the issue in the time window when the product could still be returned or exchanged?
...before asking Feds to help us?
- There is no "Asking Feds" to help. You can file complaints with the FTC or maybe another federal organization, or with your state attorney general. As you probably know, your likely success in this area will be close to zero.
I personally would like to believe that consumers have rights, a concept that Samsung is not willing to accept
- you do have rights, but from a civil law perspective, what are your damages? Do you think a reasonable person on a jury would find Samsung liable for anything, when 98% of the phone functionality works just fine, and as for GPS, it works fine for some significant percentage of the consumers? You should be asking yourself what is your personal responsibility in this... did you keep the phone past the initial return period in hopes of a fix coming out? Did Samsung do due diligence and provide a fix eventually, that appears to have work for the vast majority of users? (Yes).
I know it frustrating, my device is the second one I had, the first one was crap, and this one the GPS works but is occasionally flaky. I'll get over it, and I have not relied on any assertions of Samsungs that caused irreparable harm. Generally, you cannot sue for grief (and while we as a country seem to have drifted that way, thank god that's still basically true). You will have this phone 1 to 3 years of what is hopefully a 80+ year life. You will make better buying decisions in the future, and do more due diligence when buying a phone. And this assumes you just don't sell this one on e-bay and buy another one.
So my long ramble is summarized, and aiming at all the other class action ninnies, into this one short sentence: "Get a life".
Mike (Who obviously has to much time on his hands today)
I'm confused by all of the people who complain about the GPS. Mine has always worked fine from stock through the latest ROM I am on. It seems like there are dozens of ways to fix the issue that have worked for many people. Are there still people out there who have exhausted every lead and STILL cannot get it to work? Whenever I read a complaint about GPS, people don't specify what they have tried and what has failed.
s15274n said:
I suppose the other thread with people whining was not adequate?
You didnt even address what you are upset about? I assume GPS.... which is funny since the VAST MAJORITY on here have absolutely no issues.
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Click to collapse
I am seriously tired of seeing this response to people who are suffering with GPS issues to no avail. I don't really care about how the"vast majority" isn't having issues. I care about my phones issues. Obviously there are phones out there with a non functioning GPS. I am one of them, so is my wife. Even if 70%-80% of the phones had a functioning GPS that still leaves 20%-30% SOL.
Did I notice the GPS issue when I bought the device? Yes. Did I notice that a good number of others had the same problems? Yes. We were advised by tmobile to wait for a patch. The patch came well past the return date.
tl;dl
If your GPS is working that's great, that doesn't mean that everyone's is working. There are people that still have major GPS issues. If you don't like the complaints don't click on the thread.
I have tried all of the fixes btw. My wife and I still have extremely inconsistent performance and locking issues.
velocd said:
I am seriously tired of seeing this response to people who are suffering with GPS issues to no avail. I don't really care about how the"vast majority" isn't having issues. I care about my phones issues. Obviously there are phones out there with a non functioning GPS. I am one of them, so is my wife. Even if 70%-80% of the phones had a functioning GPS that still leaves 20%-30% SOL.
Did I notice the GPS issue when I bought the device? Yes. Did I notice that a good number of others had the same problems? Yes. We were advised by tmobile to wait for a patch. The patch came well past the return date.
tl;dl
If your GPS is working that's great, that doesn't mean that everyone's is working. There are people that still have major GPS issues. If you don't like the complaints don't click on the thread.
I have tried all of the fixes btw. My wife and I still have extremely inconsistent performance and locking issues.
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you should try AXURA if you havent, my GPS never worked until then, its a few feet off, but i dont mind that.
@OP, why is the only reason that you people think vibrants suck is the GPS?
WOOPTIDOO! a gps doesn't work.
Think of it this way, would you take a IPhone from which your calls would drop, and wouldn't be able to call anyone half the time? or not be able to use your dang brain to read the street names and figure out where your going.
...................
So basically the op didn't do his research before buying a product and now wants to cry foul. I bought my Vibrant in August, bought two, after researching it for a good two weeks. I compared it to most of the other offerings from all carriers with the exception of iPhone. I was fully aware of the gps issue before hand, very well documented. I even went so far as to have the work around sitting on my computer when I brought the thing home. One of the first things I did was apply the work around.
All that said maybe you should take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself who really needs to be blamed for you owning a product that doesn't work to the abilities that you think it should.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
And I'm REALLY tired of people coming to a development forum making posts about class action lawsuits.... Heaven forbid they use an existing thread (there was one on the very same page when the op created this thread).
There is nothing wrong with the vast majority, this can't be denied. There are a ton of ways to try and correct the problem.
H,eck send me your phone and I'll create a video of YOUR phone navigating me to the local bar so I can celebrate one less annoying "let's sue... For something" thread.
bigragu said:
I'm confused by all of the people who complain about the GPS. Mine has always worked fine from stock through the latest ROM I am on. It seems like there are dozens of ways to fix the issue that have worked for many people. Are there still people out there who have exhausted every lead and STILL cannot get it to work? Whenever I read a complaint about GPS, people don't specify what they have tried and what has failed.
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While the OP is kind of a tool (yeah, the Feds are going to leap in and fix your phone...), these "My GPS works great!" posts are almost as ridiculous.
It isn't as if a bunch of us got together and pretended to have insurmountable GPS problems.
In my case, the GPS has become usable after the second Eclair update. My wife's still doesn't work but she doesn't use it, so she doesn't care. The other two in the house now work normally. So just in my house, we pretty much cover the range.
Just because it isn't affecting you doesn't mean the rest of us are merely delusional.
And since you asked, yeah, I have tried pretty much eveything that was suggested here on XDA, short of some of the more recent ROMS (which I don't want for a variety of other reasons).
xriderx66 said:
you should try AXURA if you havent, my GPS never worked until then, its a few feet off, but i dont mind that.
@OP, why is the only reason that you people think vibrants suck is the GPS?
WOOPTIDOO! a gps doesn't work.
Think of it this way, would you take a IPhone from which your calls would drop, and wouldn't be able to call anyone half the time? or not be able to use your dang brain to read the street names and figure out where your going.
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Click to collapse
So you recommend medication for a person with hardware problems. That says more about your condition than that of the person you're replying to.
Maybe people are upset because the Vibrant was advertised as having a GPS, and a GPS is a huge part of Android's functionality? Just because your GPS works, or because you don't use it, doesn't excuse you coming in here and acting like a jerk.
Col.Kernel said:
So you recommend medication for a person with hardware problems. That says more about your condition than that of the person you're replying to.
Maybe people are upset because the Vibrant was advertised as having a GPS, and a GPS is a huge part of Android's functionality? Just because your GPS works, or because you don't use it, doesn't excuse you coming in here and acting like a jerk.
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No. My GPS never worked until I found the Axura rom it worked on all 3 of my vibrants.
Try the rom if you want the GPS so dang much. Is all I'm saying.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
This is not legal advice, but:
As far as a lawsuit goes, the best argument would be that product was "not fit for the particular purpose for which it was sold." Most jurisdictions have some form of breach of warranty laws that could provide the basis for a suit if the product was advertised or represented as having working gps. However, Samsung/T-Mobile would have the defense that when you purchased the phone, the gps didn't work but you kept it anyways (past the 14 or 30 day buyer's remorse period). In other words, by not returning it, you accepted the non-conforming goods.
As for the "Feds" stepping in, I wouldn't count on it. Your best bet would be to find an attorney that would take on a class action suit in hopes of a big fee award. Usually if there is any merit to a claim like this, attorneys are jumping at the chance to sue, b/c at the end of the day the settlement is usually something like pennies for the consumer, a promise by the company to play fair in the future and a big award of attorneys fees.
All that being said, I would think that if you sent Samsung/T-Mobile a well drafted demand letter under your jurisdiction's consumer protection laws, they would make an offer of a return or exchange of the phone to avoid the hassle. Better yet if you had an attorney friend that would do it for you.
Well, as someone with GPS issues, I'll say that something like a class action is largely useless.
I also think that "oh, just try another ROM", while valid in some cases, is also completely ridiculous. One shouldn't have to modify their phone and void a warranty in order to have functional hardware (note I've done both ).
I know it's frustrating. For me, no update or work around worked. I had to crack open my phone and bend up the contact on my GPS Antenna (which plenty of us are trying here) and now it works great. Is my SNR the strongest? No, it doesn't really go above 40. But I get 10-14 satellites to lock and it holds a signal even inside the house.
Yeah, it's insane to have a problem with something so basic on a smart phone these days. But the reality is that the vast majority of smart phone users never even turn on GPS. Out of the ones that do, a small percentage have issues. That means that there's only a small fraction of SGS users experiencing GPS issues and the people that tend to be the loudest are the ones that have problems. Samsung doesn't care. Neither would HTC or Motorola.
They also know that the average length of time the average user keeps a phone is 20 months. That number decreases with smart phones AND with people that are tinkerers. I'd imagine it would be a rarity for a lot of people here to keep a phone longer than 16-18 months. All of these manufacturers know that you'll move on to the next device long before you get a class action lawsuit going.
I may be an exception, but my time is worth more money than a class action over a device that is 97% functional.
"Plaintiff asserts that Defendant's product is 'laggy', as such term is commonly understood within the North American phone nerd community; and even the use of third-party measures such as 'Ryan's OCLF' did not transform the product into the 'buttery-smooth beast' that Plaintiff had intended to purchase..."
If you have tried the workarounds and have got all the current updates and your GPS is not working, walk into a T-Mobile store or call customer service and complain. Every day people are getting replacement phones and if they tell you that you are out of your return window, explain that you kept getting told to wait by your local rep.
This is a basic customer service issue, no need to get all bent out of shape. If yours doesn't work, ***** up a storm with T-Mobile for a replacement.
xriderx66 said:
No. My GPS never worked until I found the Axura rom it worked on all 3 of my vibrants.
Try the rom if you want the GPS so dang much. Is all I'm saying.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I couldn't agree more and that was the point of my earlier post. I understand there are people who have issues that others don't. (I had the hardware lock issue). It just seems that there ARE ROMs out there that have fixed the problem. If you need GPS that bad (and I do), try them until you find one that works.
I jusy don't get peaple...Just call Tmobile and tell them your issue like some other user and they will replace your phone...
Related
Taken from the official Sprint thread here:
http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/43883?start=540&tstart=0&reqsorting=dec
"Good news - an update will be released tomorrow 9/30. It will be rolled out over a 4 day period so not everyone will get it on day 1.
I will have the standard MR information (fixes included, rollout schedule, etc) available tomorrow morning and will post it in a new featured thread."
AWESOME!
yea, the day after the 30 days is up for people that bought on the first day, so not really that awesome, lets just pray it fixes the problem. I'm not really optomistic to be honest. Just to convenient to hold off like this.
Second update since release. I do have to admit, it's kind of nice to see Samsung actually supporting a phone for once.
This is great news! And we are getting Cyanogen Mod 6! I couldn't be happier. :-D
robl45 said:
yea, the day after the 30 days is up for people that bought on the first day, so not really that awesome, lets just pray it fixes the problem. I'm not really optomistic to be honest. Just to convenient to hold off like this.
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Click to collapse
While I understand where you're coming from, I agree with styckx that it's just good to see them doing something about it. I do wish they'd acted on this more quickly, but better to roll out a fix now than wait months to release one or not release one at all.
It's crazy to hear people complain about updates from Samsung from my perspective. I'm a Touch pro 1 owner that basically received no updates from Sprint/HTC. And previous to that was the Mogul that went months without an advertised feature (Rev A/GPS). I'm way more wary about HTC than Samsung.
Epic ordered finally here. Was waiting for 10/1.
fooo1 said:
It's crazy to hear people complain about updates from Samsung from my perspective. I'm a Touch pro 1 owner that basically received no updates from Sprint/HTC. And previous to that was the Mogul that went months without an advertised feature (Rev A/GPS). I'm way more wary about HTC than Samsung.
Epic ordered finally here. Was waiting for 10/1.
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Click to collapse
It stems from Samsung's history, mainly with the T-Mobile Behold 2. They advertised that it would be getting Android 2.x then never delivered on their promise and stranded users with 1.6. While HTC has probably been the best manufacturer in terms of supporting their Android phones.
I had a launch day Hero, and I don't think support was the fastest for that either. Most everything I did through XDA and androidforums.<---alot faster than waiting for the manufacturer/carrier to roll out and update.
Just my thoughts...
Chris
cswee1932 said:
I had a launch day Hero, and I don't think support was the fastest for that either. Most everything I did through XDA and androidforums.<---alot faster than waiting for the manufacturer/carrier to roll out and update.
Just my thoughts...
Chris
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I've read a lot about Samsung after purchasing my Samsung Moment. I found they had a nice history of let downs and lack of support. Then the Moment went on and on without a mention of a fix, or patch, or anything. That was a complete lemon of a phone (data lock ups and unfixable GPS) that Samsung all but abandoned less than a year after launch and still to this day the Moment forums are mainly filled with people trying to fix data lock ups and the GPS. It's ashame really.
Epic was going to be my last run with Samsung, and despite some bumps in the road I've been pleased so far as they are at least taking initiative with this phone it seems. I personally think they have no choice. It's one thing to piss off 1 carriers customers, and another to piss off multiple carriers customers by not supporting a phone.
Hope the support continues.
so you guys are excited that they put out an update that fixed nothing and screwed up the phone? thats great, all it meant is I had to go and uninstall the mediahub crap so my battery life didn't suffer, the gps issue remains, the upload issue will likely remain after this update as well. so that really equates to them doing nothing in my eyes.
I've never experienced a upload cap on my phone. Does anyone know if this update includes other fixes other than just the 3g upload cap?
crajee16 said:
I've never experienced a upload cap on my phone. Does anyone know if this update includes other fixes other than just the 3g upload cap?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you ran the Speed Test app on 3G? I've yet to see anyone get over a stable 150kbps (sure it bounces upwards towards 200 on occasion but then levels out). From working in hosting it shows exact throttling behavior, as it uploads it jumps past the 150 mark to around 170-180 and then down to a stable 150 almost immediately. It's hard to believe this to be some sort of coincidence since it's able to be replicated in many different 3G markets across the country.
punzada said:
Have you ran the Speed Test app on 3G? I've yet to see anyone get over a stable 150kbps (sure it bounces upwards towards 200 on occasion but then levels out). From working in hosting it shows exact throttling behavior, as it uploads it jumps past the 150 mark to around 170-180 and then down to a stable 150 almost immediately. It's hard to believe this to be some sort of coincidence since it's able to be replicated in many different 3G markets across the country.
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Click to collapse
Lol, mine actually goes to like 6000+ for a little while, then dips down to under 50 kbps. Yes, under 50! I have some SpeedTest results that have come in under 20 kbps upload!
Even my 3G speed is horrible. Never over 500 download. I'm looking forward to this. Luckily I am usually either in a WiFi zone or a 4G zone.
punzada said:
From working in hosting it shows exact throttling behavior, as it uploads it jumps past the 150 mark to around 170-180 and then down to a stable 150 almost immediately.
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Click to collapse
It may seem to be throttling behavior. Ultimately though, those of us aware of how a data radio and associated software *actually works* know full well that it's because the dwarf hamsters spinning in their wheels are, in fact, unionized. Because of the upload tragedy of 2009, in which millions of poor hamsters perished on the Touch Pro 2 because of faulty speed governors installed in the cages, strict regulations were put in place for the Epic, dictating that no hamster may run unsupervised in their wheels, and that they must trade off shifts every 128kB with their spotting partners. It's this switching that causes the fluctuations you observe during the speedtest runs. You may have noticed a bit more heft in the Epic vs say, the Captivate. You might mistakenly believe it's the keyboard, when in fact it is the added weight of the supervisory hamsters.
Another shortfall in communications speed arises because Samsung, to save weight from the added hamsters, decided to use smoke signals as a databus between the CPU and the baseband processor. This was chosen over the "flashing mirrors" approach due to cost and weight issues. This compounds the upload cap problem because as the phone rests in your pocket, it accumulates moisture. The soot particles from the smoke then seed rainclouds, which can interrupt the dataflow between baseband and CPU as the receiver operators duck for cover at a nearby tavern.
So, you see, this is clearly a compound problem. Obviously, this week's update will include a staff of more hamsters, more wheels, and dehumidifiers, all so your phone can shuttle data more efficiently. This is a brilliant feat of engineering, I might add. So, expect your phone to weigh more by the end of the week, though how much more, nobody knows. And please, do post the truth about how the phone's internals really work, punzada... anything else would be a blatant disservice to the hard-working bit-crunchers in your phone.
^^ wat
Also from that thread:
Desi,
I'm on the phone right now with tier 2 support to try to find out what's in the update because this is my last day if I'm going to return the phone and I'm being told that they don't see anything about the battery life, GPS, or this data upload issue in this release.
I know you said that you're putting that information up tomorrow, but I have to make a decision today.
The tech is saying there is NO FIX FOR THE CAP ISSUE FROM SAMSUNG yet or anything to improve the battery.
Click to expand...
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Desi's (admin) reply:
Joe,
The 3G upload issue is definitely in the release.
I doubt the GPS issue is since I just forwarded input from this forum over to engineering for further analysis.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess we will have to see if it actually fixes anything. But it seems like tier 2 is at least finally aware of (or admitting to) the problem with the upload. Doesn't sound like there will be anything for the battery or GPS though.
GlassGorilla said:
I guess we will have to see if it actually fixes anything. But it seems like tier 2 is at least finally aware of (or admitting to) the problem with the upload. Doesn't sound like there will be anything for the battery or GPS though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery and GPS are (for me, anyway) easy workarounds. 3G upload cap is what it is; there's no getting around it other than using wi-fi or 4G (which I can also usually do, but not everyone can).
I'll be happy to have that upload cap fixed if for no other reason than people will quit using it as an excuse to post "should I return my Epic for an Evo?" threads here and elsewhere.
My feeling is the amount of pressure on Sprint had an affect on how hard they pushed samsung.
That and the fact that until a few days ago users were being told for weeks running that no one but they were reporting the problem exacerbated the problem.
So it s a cause for celebration that they are pushing out a fix, but I don't think it is at all established that this would have occurred so soon if it where not for all the noise.
As far as GPS, not only are there problems, but the "advice" given by Sprint: use the unrelated "wireless networking" is an absolute laughable and patronizing dodge.
As others have noted, working around with cold starts or manual resets does fix the main issue.
I have been in contact with the moderator of eh Sprint forum privately some time ago, and he put me in with ADP (ADP, not ADS) on this issue. They are diagnosing it, and have not come to any conclusion other than they have seen the issue themselves.
aero1 said:
My feeling is the amount of pressure on Sprint had an affect on how hard they pushed samsung.
So it s a cause for celebration that they are pushing out a fix, but I don't think it is at all established that this would have occurred so soon if it where not for all the noise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well. Apparently we have a voice, which is a good thing.
I'm hopeful, but I am not holding my breath. I think it is likely the vast majority of Epics were pre-ordered or bought on launch, 08/31. 30 days would be 09/30. The announcement could be an attempt to get people who bought on launch that were going to return it on the last day to keep their phones, and then when the update doesn't "may increase" or "possibly enhance" or whatever the legal gymnastics statement said, those people can't return the phone any more and Sprint isn't really under any obligation to fix it.
Whether it's an angleshoot or a genuine attempt to fix it, I am anxiously awaiting the first reports tomorrow.
GlassGorilla said:
I think it is likely the vast majority of Epics were pre-ordered or bought on launch, 08/31. 30 days would be 09/30. The announcement could be an attempt to get people who bought on launch that were going to return it on the last day to keep their phones, and then when the update doesn't "may increase" or "possibly enhance" or whatever the legal gymnastics statement said, those people can't return the phone any more and Sprint isn't really under any obligation to fix it. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sprint is serious exposed to class action liberality, which involves not just awards, but legal costs, and more importantly really bad press.
I have a written note from ecare from last week saying no one has reported this issue. Hundreds of users seem to have been told the same thing. Not that the speeds are normal, but that they were low speeds but unique to the customer. That presents a legal liability for Sprint right here.
I think we will all know in a few days.
You guys should probably take a chill pill on the conspiracy theories already. I'm sure it would cost Sprint much less money and hassle just to fix this software issue rather than go out of their way to "conveniently" tell you that there's a "fix" that doesn't really exist but they used their "legal gymnastics" to trick you into holding onto your phone past the 30 day mark. They are a company that wishes to exist more than 2 more years, why would they go out of their way to screw you and guarantee you leave in two years when a couple of patches could save them and Samsung a ton of customers?
Its not like fixing this issue requires the recall and replacement of every phone, and them fixing this problem is not an incredibly inconvenient issue. You know why they're telling you the day before your 30 days that the update is coming? Because telling you after you return the phone wouldn't do anyone much good. Why didn't they tell you sooner? Because these things, while not impossible or some ludicrous endeavor, do take time.
I'm not even meaning to take their side really. Sure, they should have caught the issue before launch, and they should have addressed the issue in public... but if you're only gonna sign onto networks willing to do either of those things then you're not going to be purchasing a cell phone in America. I mean, Steve Job's stance on Antennagate is still "Shut up whiny babies, this issue doesn't exist, but I'll give you a free case if you shush and go back to fellating me..."
For those of you moaning and throwing you toys out their prams with regard to the delay in Samsung releasing Froyo and threatening to sell your SGS, I have some good news for you.
Rather than post you rants in other threads that are useful, use this one to act like children.
Those of us who like the SGS don't care about you in the slightest.
There are far more people here giving the phone their support that you the minority.
The only thing I ask is that when you buy your next Android phone, can you please let us know that you are selling it because you are once again throwing your toys out of the pram?
Believe me, I an many others will not be in the slightest bit surprised, however, you could buy and Iphone or better still, give up on the idea of smartphone for now and pray that the likes of Nokia can pull something out of the bag.
This forum would be a hell of a lot cleaner if people could engage their mental ignore more often (and yes, I realise posting just to say this is hypocritical in the extreme). Instead of creating a thread especially for people "to act like children" (which is childish in itself, IMO), why not just ignore them? They'll get the message eventually if people stop responding...
That would NORMALLY work Voleo. But...
Firstly, the Mods aren't closing those threads.. They should because they are dupes anyway, and angry rants aren't relevent to XDA. We now have many copies of the same thread..
Secondly, people who are leaving often feel the need to "threaten" Samsung and whine in every thread for a few weeks about the same problems. Then slowly, some of them seem to switch to blatant lying/deception to spark a mutiny (ie. "the GPS/lag IS a HARDWARE problem" which can't be fixed). Finally then, they sell their phone, post in a few existing threads that they got fed up and sold their phone. Some also start their own thread. Those who are considering doing the same give them a pat on the back and given words of advice off the other trolls considering leaving, for eg "it's healthy to rant". Which continues the chain going. Since they have issues (with the phone and otherwise), they want to make Samsung suffer.
The big problem however, is that doing so, their BS/exaggerations accumulates and if nobody responds, we have a forum filled with rubbish like "33% of the time my phone is laggy". So, in part, we need to tell them to prove their claims, or STFU, because otherwise, they enforce each other, reduce morale here, and cause other people to exaggerate minor problems in their mind, and on the forum.
Oh here we go, yet another thread to ***** around Thought we had enough of them?
If you are not happy with your "product" sell it move on and enjoy the life. Simple. As you definitely wont be loosing money on SGS.
Have always worked for me.
Cheers
Vlad
Now is a good time for Luecke's laws...
Luecke's first law
Those who are dissatisfied will always strive to exaggerate minor device problems in technical forums.
Luecke's second law
When making technical comparisons between devices in arguments, dissatisfied users will compare to devices based on company reputation alone, and will totally ignore fixed problems with that device.
dovla_sa said:
Oh here we go, yet another thread to ***** around Thought we had enough of them?
If you are not happy with your "product" sell it move on and enjoy the life. Simple. As you definitely wont be loosing money on SGS.
Have always worked for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said once again, not everyone can just "sell on", and I disagree you "definitely wont lose money"... how not?
The 8Gb SGS was £450 on launch here, if I were to sell now I probably wouldn't even get £300 for it - that's depreciation whichever way you wrap it up - unless of course you bought it second hand to begin with.
I agree in some ways that there are some childish rants in here. I have myself been criticial of the SGS, but my "rants" were detailed and constructive. In some ways, some of the replies I got which were defending the SGS were actually more childish than my constructive criticism, so its not the one sided affair that threads like this portray.
Incidentally, I get the impression that some people simply don't like hearing any criticism of their beloved phone. This is "fanboy" behaviour. Most level headed people would admit that the phone has some relatively major problems, and to say otherwise is burying your head in the sand. I've said it before, it comes down to how heavily you use the phone, and what your past experiences / expectations are.
I'll be honest, I've come close at times to selling the SGS. By xmas there will be a number of phones I would swap with quite happily for one reason or another, but its the phone I've got, and the idea of losing a load of money selling it does not sit easy with me no matter how many faults it might have.
To be fair, thanks to this forum I've actually managed to tweak the phone and get it to a standard which is pretty much more than acceptable, but it has taken me lots of time, and it has taken developers on here lots of time to produce fixes for some of the problems. If it time is money, then the SGS has been by far the most expensive mobile phone I've yet owned!
Wow, the OP is pure hypocrisy.
But I've seen one thing. Most of us hate apple fan boys, but it looks like xda is full of SGS fan boys too.
The point is, the SGS does have problems because of buggy software. No one knows when official fixes are coming out. So for some people, its better to sell, make Samsung look like idiots, and walk. Samsung do deserve to look like fools. Their QA dept. is just royally screwed. Its just sad how great HW is killed by crap SW.
If people wanna rant, then let them. Most of the time the rants are true, but maybe quantitatively exaggerated, example 50% of the time lagging. It nevertheless brings to light real problems of the SGS's SW.
Many people do rant over and over again in every tread. It kind of boring to read same thing over and over again from same people. If they stayed in this tread it would be 30-40% less post in every tread and it would be nice and more correct.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
asicman said:
Wow, the OP is pure hypocrisy.
But I've seen one thing. Most of us hate apple fan boys, but it looks like xda is full of SGS fan boys too.
The point is, the SGS does have problems because of buggy software. No one knows when official fixes are coming out. So for some people, its better to sell, make Samsung look like idiots, and walk. Samsung do deserve to look like fools. Their QA dept. is just royally screwed. Its just sad how great HW is killed by crap SW.
If people wanna rant, then let them. Most of the time the rants are true, but maybe quantitatively exaggerated, example 50% of the time lagging. It nevertheless brings to light real problems of the SGS's SW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome post! Thank you. The SGS fanboys are just as annoying as the Apple ones.
Chill, it's just a phone.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
While I've been using Linux as my main OS since 1997, not all my friends have. I've fixed the lag issue. I wouldn't trust my friends to realize the root cause of the lag problem and then find a fix. They would think the product is bad. And it is. What the hell kind of product has to be jailbroken to correct bad engineering? I'm not talking of too-restrictive-engineering (like App Store), but straight-out bad engineering. After a few days of use and few tens of applications (which is well within normal and encouraged use of a flagship product, non?), lagging becomes terrible. Applying a lag fix results in a roughly ten-fold increase in effective IOPS.
Anyhow, I cannot fix the GPS issue. It has to be done in firmware. I got this phone in JU-FREAKIN'-LY and Samsung STILL haven't fixed this issue. And I ain't complaining about lack of Froyo.
I'M COMPLAINING ABOUT A LACK OF BASIC BUGFIXES!
Oh, and that the slow, overengineered, proprietary Kies application crashes whenever I try to install whatever firmware update they just posted. They were three months late in posting fixes. And now their update procedure doesn't work. Adding insult to injury is not a good idea. What the hell kinda management will let such products out the door - both the 2.1 firmware for the SGS and the now-broken Kies?
Sorry I had to yell at you. I hope you misunderstood because you've listened to too much awesome rock'n'roll music and that has fried your ears.
My phone got faster after lagfix on 2.1 and 2.2, but i never had any big lag that the wieners here have.
I also have an iphone and can compare them. Iphone do lag sometimes to. Sometimes it just freezing. Sometimes it crash. I can say the sgs is better on everything.
The gps is much better.
Better screen.
.....
....
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
For me, who had a htc diamond and then an iphone 3g... GPS is amazing in the SGS lol
Fanboyism is never good.
Samsung shouldnt have made promise
that they can't keep. Thats not professional.
However, apple fanboys are the worst.
Steve Jobs has become like a religion.
I have used the SGS for 2 months and I am on stock firmware with voodoo lagfix. I don't know why people are complaining about buggy firmware. The firmware is NOT buggy. I never have crashes or major issues with core software components. The only issue is the lag but this can be fixed (i am using voodoo and this fix has eliminates most lag).
As for GPS, I did not encountered any issues with it with most navigation software. Some times accuracy may not be perfectly accurate but is still within tolerance.
Froyo may bring more goodies, but even as it is now, the Galaxy is near perfect. I think this phone will still come out on top in any pro-con list with other phones.
whats is the big deal.. every phone has bugs.. I had an I phone3g and once it was loaded with apps it would hang up from time to time and lag.. the same with the blackberry bold 2nd gen that I had it would lag all over once it had alot of apps... HTC's phones are the same way.. This is what can happens once the OS's on smart phones becomes complex.. its not just the Samsung S..
I'm running JPK with no lag fix.. (no need for it with JPK) and alot of people I have showed the phone too can't get over how fast it is.. these are people with Iphones and Blackberrys.
TriC_101 said:
whats is the big deal.. every phone has bugs.........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The big deal is Samsungs ignorance or incompetence to make a bug fix. I bought my SGS late june, and still no GPS fix from Samsung.
I can live with a laggy and erratic GPS, but I can not live with a GPS who sometimes are running in the parallel streets and tries to guide me back to the street I am actually driving for the moment.
Edit:
My SGS is in for service for 3. time now. If the GPS is not working when it returns, it will be "3 Strikes Out" and my money back and Samsung's ignorance or incompetence has saved me my money.
TriC_101 said:
whats is the big deal.. every phone has bugs..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, because every phone has bugs we have to shut down the mouth and say nothing?
If an iPhone 4 has bugs we have to say that, if an HTC has bugs we have to say that.
Nobody is saying don't say anything.. But what is getting annoying:
People posting dedicated threads containing the bugs which annoy them, instead of posting to the threads already discussing the separate bugs. Strangely, they aren't marked as dupes...
The constant exaggerations and lies. Rather than have an honest debate, many are choosing to heavily exaggerate/lie about their problems. Rather than have an honest debate, many people are also trying to close debate with BS such as "the gps problems ARE HARDWARE, end of story!", or use fake statistics such as "this phone is unusable 66% of the time it's so laggy". The other side isn't perfect either though, and some are saying "the GPS is perfect, but they wont post tracks".
The lack of proof. People are getting away with inventing claims too easily. ON BOTH SIDES. People are accepting "it's detailed in another thread" as evidence, whilst in many cases, it isn't actually PROVEN in any other thread, or the "proof" has flaws .
People are getting called fanboy's when they question a claim. This shouldn't happen
People who are dissatisfied need to patting their fellow whingers on the back for creating threads and venting.
We need more people to question what is said, and just because something IS said, to not allow them to be called a fanboy. That's the problem. There's a lot of BS on both sides, and not enough questioning.
No external linking is allowed?! How am I going to prove this? Let's be manaul:
My endomondo account 225326 has workouts using both a Nokia n82 (before July) and Samsung Galaxy S (starting in july). The Nokia workouts rarely had GPS issues aside from inaccuracy when running close to larger buildings. I do all the time with my Samsung Galaxy S, it will only have sporadic locks. It is useless for tracking workouts, it only works as a glorified stopwatch. Google Maps is close to unusable, especially when outside urban areas where there's enough base stations to triangulate with fair accuracy.
If you turn off the radio assist thing, you'll experience exactly how reliable the GPS is. I dare you to try!
this post aint about "where is froyo" but instead im wondering if anyone have filed claims against samsung/verizon for false advertising.
Now despite how good the phone is, it is still fact that they falsely advertised the product stating that it will be updated to 2.2 "shortly" after release.
I am interested in the process and result of the claims if anyone have done it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
attitudes1 said:
this post aint about "where is froyo" but instead im wondering if anyone have filed claims against samsung/verizon for false advertising.
Now despite how good the phone is, it is still fact that they falsely advertised the product stating that it will be updated to 2.2 "shortly" after release.
I am interested in the process and result of the claims if anyone have done it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't know. Try it yourself and let us know.
good luck with that.
attitudes1 said:
this post aint about "where is froyo" but instead im wondering if anyone have filed claims against samsung/verizon for false advertising.
Now despite how good the phone is, it is still fact that they falsely advertised the product stating that it will be updated to 2.2 "shortly" after release.
I am interested in the process and result of the claims if anyone have done it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon never used that point in their advertising for the phone. Also, "shortly" is an ambiguous term that has no specific time frame.
J Shed said:
Verizon never used that point in their advertising for the phone. Also, "shortly" is an ambiguous term that has no specific time frame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are reasonable expectations of "shortly" though, and depending on when you bought the phone, 6 months isn't shortly, and in court, I'm going to say they'd agree with you on that.
J Shed said:
Verizon never used that point in their advertising for the phone. Also, "shortly" is an ambiguous term that has no specific time frame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although Verizon is selling docks that require 2.2 for full functionality.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Yea maybe someone with a lawyer uncle or something start up a class action and maybe all fascinate owners will end up with $10 off their $400 monthly bill in 2020.
Guys at androidcentral talked about a class action lawsuit filed against samsung in their latest podcast.
Here is the deal that they said. First if you start the suit by the time is actually get heard in front on the judge froyo will have been out. Secondly there have been no "confirmed" ETA of froyo. Granted it would be hard to prove that your lack of froyo had cost you in some form or another.
Class action lawsuit is often filed when there is a defect which causes failure to a product, not because of a lack of system upgrades.
So in all I don't believe you have a case, and even if you think you do (trust me I have a fascinate as well) you will find it hard to get into the courts. Let alone you have no proof whos fault it is, Samsung or Verizon, which leads to an even larger issue of taking on two lawsuits when you have no clue who is to blame.
So my suggestion sit back, let the developers do their work, and soon enough we will have a working gingerbread rom for our pleasure. BTW you can disagree with my understanding of class action lawsuits. I am not a lawyer, nor have any experience with lawsuits. It's simply My Opinion.
The Fascinate is an amazing phone, I just need to sync two google calendars and flash then I will be happy...
Bing search defines soon as:
soon [ soon ]
after short time: within or after a short time
quickly: quickly or without much delay
early: before a reasonable or the desired length of time has elapsed
A lawsuit will be possible only if they EOL the Fascinate with no plans to release froyo.
SlyHusky said:
Guys at androidcentral talked about a class action lawsuit filed against samsung in their latest podcast.
Here is the deal that they said. First if you start the suit by the time is actually get heard in front on the judge froyo will have been out. Secondly there have been no "confirmed" ETA of froyo. Granted it would be hard to prove that your lack of froyo had cost you in some form or another.
Class action lawsuit is often filed when there is a defect which causes failure to a product, not because of a lack of system upgrades.
So in all I don't believe you have a case, and even if you think you do (trust me I have a fascinate as well) you will find it hard to get into the courts. Let alone you have no proof whos fault it is, Samsung or Verizon, which leads to an even larger issue of taking on two lawsuits when you have no clue who is to blame.
So my suggestion sit back, let the developers do their work, and soon enough we will have a working gingerbread rom for our pleasure. BTW you can disagree with my understanding of class action lawsuits. I am not a lawyer, nor have any experience with lawsuits. It's simply My Opinion.
The Fascinate is an amazing phone, I just need to sync two google calendars and flash then I will be happy...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if there is no case, the bad PR will cost people money and cause them to do something.
adrynalyne said:
A lawsuit will be possible only if they EOL the Fascinate with no plans to release froyo.
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Click to collapse
This. The definition of "soon" becomes irrelevant at that point, and the argument is whether they led people (pre-purchase) to believe that it would be upgraded.
Groundhound said:
This. The definition of "soon" becomes irrelevant at that point, and the argument is whether they led people (pre-purchase) to believe that it would be upgraded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By selling accessories that say "2.2 required", that would lead people to believe it was to be upgraded.
I'm a lawyer and a fascinate user and I would be delighted to take on the case if you'll take care of the filing fees and costs of process. To substantiate the claim, it will be necessary to subpoena documents from at least 3 vzw divisions, samsung US and samsung global. That alone is already in the range of 4 to 10 thousand dollars assuming you can convince me to work without being paid. If enough users join the class, it's not too bad but to get anything beyond an initial filing, you need to allege harm. How have you been harmed by not having the latest os version? In the legal world, harm = money lost. While not having 2.2 is frustrating, I highly doubt you can demonstrate to a judge (who likely doesn't even know what an sms is) how not being able to use flash enabled web sites has materially affected your life.
In all honesty, you could do way more for your cause by complaining in ways that push samsung fascinate problems to the top of google search results. Register samsung sucks domains and write bad reviews on every web site you can find, esp retailers. Bring the amazon or cnet user ratings below 3 stars and you'll make a difference. Complaining on xda is probably the least effective way of causing samsung to care, since prospective purchasers aren't going here for info on whether to get a fascinate or droid x.
I think buying an official dock that you don't get to fully use because it REQUIRES 2.2 should count for something...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
But this is all based on the idea that we will not get updated to 2.2, which we will.
adrynalyne said:
Even if there is no case, the bad PR will cost people money and cause them to do something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed...I have been flooding the galaxyssupport twitter page and verizonwireless twitter page, I know it is very minimal but Hootsuit has allowed me to accomplish this task very easily, and it's the least I can do. Atleast someone is working over at samsung and verizon cleaning out their twitter pages, wish they would get to the software stuff though..
theraptscallion said:
I'm a lawyer and a fascinate user and I would be delighted to take on the case if you'll take care of the filing fees and costs of process. To substantiate the claim, it will be necessary to subpoena documents from at least 3 vzw divisions, samsung US and samsung global. That alone is already in the range of 4 to 10 thousand dollars assuming you can convince me to work without being paid. If enough users join the class, it's not too bad but to get anything beyond an initial filing, you need to allege harm. How have you been harmed by not having the latest os version? In the legal world, harm = money lost. While not having 2.2 is frustrating, I highly doubt you can demonstrate to a judge (who likely doesn't even know what an sms is) how not being able to use flash enabled web sites has materially affected your life.
In all honesty, you could do way more for your cause by complaining in ways that push samsung fascinate problems to the top of google search results. Register samsung sucks domains and write bad reviews on every web site you can find, esp retailers. Bring the amazon or cnet user ratings below 3 stars and you'll make a difference. Complaining on xda is probably the least effective way of causing samsung to care, since prospective purchasers aren't going here for info on whether to get a fascinate or droid x.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about complaining to BBB for example?
And now I feel like lack 2.2 is not the only issue. I'm on stock and had a couple of unpleasant moments using GPS, which allegedly was "Fixed". Sometimes seeing marker of your car moving like 60 feet off road and constantly giving contradicting directions is not fun. Inability to quickly restore GPS coming out of tunnel is a bit of problem too... Especially if you have car full of people and are moving in unknown city. And It's getting on the nerves more and more!
This was posted by p3droid on mydroidworld - many of us know him, or have at least heard of him. He knows what hes talking about, and this info is somewhat disturbing. This is just a copy/paste of his OP.
Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Background
I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Motorola[/FONT][/FONT] working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Google[/FONT][/FONT] through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]HTC [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]devices[/FONT][/FONT])
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.I think I posted my first angry message and [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]tweet[/FONT][/FONT] about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]program[/FONT][/FONT] that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.The Rubber Meets the Road
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]applications[/FONT][/FONT] can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers. "
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Just thought of a potential solution. We could have someone develop a program which accepts these apps and finds whatever sort of signature the carriers are checking for. It can keep it on our phone and ping back to the carriers when queried.
Just a rough idea. But I know there are people far more intelligent than me that can get this done. Or perhaps something more ingenious. I have faith. It will be a nuisance but if we support our strongest devs we will get through this until the carriers piss the **** off.
Isn't Google throwing out the baby with the bathwater here? If the main objective of the carriers is to prevent unauthorized tethering, isn't there a way to do that without blocking root access?
bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my gut reaction as well. However...... Having spoken with a friend and engineer in the industry (I cannot say her name so take this quote with as much salt as needed) it was explained to me like this.
" Most cell carrier's infastructure are having a tough time dealing with the current customer load as it is. In fact, if you look at events where the influx of people can shut down networks such as AT&T ( the South by South West music fest in Austin TX for example) the cell carries are currently not too worried about losing, what they believe to be, a few customers.
Especially when you figure in the fact that you modding your phone and placing it on thier network is looked upon as you violating their contract. And as it was YOU who violated the contract in thier eyes, the cell carrier can continue charging you for your contract as well as making you purchase an "approved replacement handset"
I am not sure if this is truly the outlook of the carriers or simply the way one employee understands the situation to be......but it wouldnt surprise me if this was exactly how the dev community was viewed by them.
BUT, being around and playing with my phones for a few years now has taught me one thing. There are people on these forums with everybit the brains and know-how as the engineers the carriers employ. And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
cegna09 said:
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
Okay tracking rooted users is new to me. but I thought the rest was normal procedure?
...Root exploit>carrier update (patches root)>new root exploit>new carrier update (patches new root)>newest root exploit...
How is the op any different than current procedure.? Is it just the addition of carriers tracking rooted users that makes this post notable? Because it seems like scaremongering to me. Should I really be that concerned? I already knew att doesn't like me to tether without a plan, and will do what it can to stop me. I dont have any more reason to believe att will stop service to my phone now than before I read this post.
Basically what started all this guys, was theft of services (free tethering) Everyone who has used the free tethering 'hacks' are largely responsible for this movement. Had everyone modded their phones responsibly, and not stolen services from the carriers because they thought they 'had that right' then this would probably not be happening to the extent that it is. I, for one, do not nor have i ever used a free tethering hack. I have unlimited data and use that freely on my phone. I use my pc for web browsing when i have a lot to do online. Below is a quote from a friend of mine on the Atrixforums.com site that is a very good view and quite accurate interpretation of whats happening.
das8nt said:
Yeah, I always knew something like this was going to come down the pipe... it was only a matter of time.
The third part, The Rubber Meets the Road, has been added. I've had some more time to think about this, and I've come to realize a few things. The following is my opinion on the whole subject. It might not be a very popular one, and posting it is not meant to start a large debate or anything, I just wanted to express my feeling on the matter. Please do not take offense to any of the points I'm trying to make; hopefully some of you know me well enough so far to know that I don't mean offense to anyone.
Opinion starts here...
They're right. The manufacturers, the carriers... they're right. We may not like it, but in the end they both have the full say in what happens. I'll give a few examples in a moment as to why I see it this way, but first I need to let you know where I'm coming from. I have a rooted phone; it's not my first rooted phone. I have tethered; though not often or very much at all, but I have tethered without a tethering plan on my account. I have installed ROMs, custom kernels, MODs, hacks... you name it, I've done it. I enjoy it if only because I can. Did I do it because it was needed? In some circumstances, I might argue, "yes;" in others, not in the slightest... it was just fun. The point to this being is that I have done most of everything that is being discussed in the Food For Thought post; and I've done it because I wanted to.
That brings me to a first example. You buy a car; a $20k car at that. Say you pay cash for it; it's yours. You don't even have to have full coverage insurance on it if you don't want to (some states.) You bought it as you daily driver, but you want to make some mods to it: aftermarket exhaust, lowering kit, cool-air intake.... and nitrous. You can do all of those things.; there's no one stopping you. What you can't do though, is maintain a factory warranty on your new car if you install those mods. When you alter the build of the car you are losing your right to claim that that car was manufactured improperly since it's no longer in the same state in which it was delivered to you. No big deal, right? Nothing ever goes wrong until the warranty expires anyway, we all know that. So, you take it to a drag track to see what it can do; how fast can it go? How quick can it hit the quarter mile line? You want to be know as the fastest, so you don't hold back... you kick in the nitrous.... but there's a problem. You didn't realize that the car was not meant to take that kind of load the way it was built. You blow your engine. Is the dealership or manufacturer going to warranty that engine? Would you really expect them to?
Second example. The same car you purchased, before you ever take it to the track, you want to drive it.... I mean really drive it; feel the true power and handling on the road. You take it out on the Interstate because that has the highest speed limits. You quickly get it up to to 70 mph, but that's not enough. You need more. You start to push it a little farther; no big deal... law enforcement doesn't usually care if you're only going a few mph over the limit, right? Well, you haven't been caught yet, so why not push it a little more? Before you know it you're at 95 mph and you see blue lights coming up quick behind you. Is that office going to let you off the hook because you own the car, have it modded and you feel you can do what you want with it? Would you expect them to?
Yes, we buy the phones. Yes, we own them. Yes, we can mod them how ever we can. What we can't do, though, is agree to a service contract and expect the provider of that contract to allow us to ignore their rules and exploit their services to the point that it costs them money. They are a business. They are not in the business for giving away free service, or replace products because the end user did not use them as intended; if they were they would not be in business very long. The carrier has the right to charge what they do, whether we like it or not. We, as users, have the right to find service elsewhere (most of us) or do with out. We agree to their terms when we allow them to provide us service. You do not have to sign a contract to agree to their terms; activating your phone on their network makes the agreement for you. Manufacturers have the right to lock their phones down, after all, they manufacture them. They are not in business to provide two or three phones for the price of one just because we broke the first couple trying to make them do things they were not intended to do. Again, if they were then they wouldn't be in business very long. If we do not like their practices we can buy from others.
I guess what it all boils down to in my mind is that if modding and hacking had been used the right way, we, the modding community and it's followers, might not have this situation coming down on us. If we did it just to customize our phones the way we want them, I'm sure they would have allowed that and worked with us. Since the opposite has been true for the most part, it surprises me in no way that this is about to happen. Users have been 'jailbreaking' and 'rooting' their phones for years, with a vast majority of them being used to circumvent the rules. So, the rules are about to change... like it or not.
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bongd said:
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
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The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
cegna09 said:
The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
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I'm sure there are a slew of celebrity lawyers on speed dial, and I know that the Apple jailbreaking case will be strongly referenced if there is a class action lawsuit.
I also recognize and appreciate the circumstances regarding closing and finding exploits. It's always a game of cat and mouse. And it sucks having to find exploits and holes. Sometimes it's easy but sometimes it's extremely tough. I'm hoping it's not the latter.
In any event, I'm going to hold out. I know that there'll be a work around or at least a ton of backlash. You bring up a good point that it's a very small percentage of users who root. But that small percentage is virtually all made up of power users. While we're small in numbers, we're more intelligent than the tweenies who just get Androids for texting and Facebook.
I know that petitions and things like that normally don't get done (I never bothered with the bootloader petition for example) but I know that more constructive and intelligent users will chime in with glorious ideas to keep this **** at bay. I sincerely hope it was a late April fools day joke or something. I don't mind Google data mining and harvesting all my consumer logistics as long as they don't clamp down on my phone. Win win situation. I don't mind their parasitic or insidious intentions at all.
kdspiv said:
And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
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Except Motorola's bootloaders.
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
RacecarBMW said:
Except Motorola's bootloaders.
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It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
Kueller said:
It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
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If only someone was willing to risk their job
phobos512 said:
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
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If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
ok i can sorta understand them wanting to stop free tethering, but why root in general, some people like adding custome roms, or tweaking themes to make their phone that THEY purchased look the way they want it to. I really don't use tether, but locking down root, that's just ridiculous...smh
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
jgc121 said:
If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
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Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
phobos512 said:
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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I too have been modding vehicles for nearly 15 yrs now, I am an ASE certified technician with EPA certifications, and an Associates Degree in Business Management as well. (Feel free to pm me for proof) I am well aware of this act and the laws. You are missing the point of the previous posts.
A manufacturers warranty would never cover a blown engine due to N20 use.... it just wont. Its intended to cover the engine as it was from the factory. Any changes to the factory setup (within certain limits) are ok. Something like N20 - thats a deal breaker.
As i said before - the previous posts are not MY opinions.... just information i was passing along.
Not sure about that whole Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act..... didn't feel like reading up on it.... but in regards to the whole thing with AT&T and potentially other carriers shutting off all form of cell service to a person with a rooted/jailbroken phone by way of discovery with a special code in the software.... it won't happen unless they're using it in an illegal way (as in using a free tethering workaround, and abusing it to the point that it's easily distinguished that something fishy is going on).... plain and simple. As i mentioned in the other thread with the exact same article linked to in the Atrix forums (one of the other recent threads), the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was ammended in July 2010, and one of those ammendments was that jailbreaking/rooting a mobile phone to install unauthorized or unapproved applications on the phone is legal.
So.... in regards to the earlier comment someone made laughing at the idea of a "revolt"..... if AT&T starts shutting off service to people who rooted/jailbroke their phone for the sole purpose of either installing a modified ROM or allowing further customisation of the OS than the non-rooted/jailbroke device will allow, then yes, there WOULD be a revolt. That revolt would take the form of... what i believe would fall under a class-action lawsuit. If they can't prove that the person who's service they cut off was using their rooted/jailbroken device in a way that was hindering their service.... which would mostly be the free tethering workarounds and some of those morons downloading quite a few gigabytes of data in a month..... then they would technically be breaking federal law by doing so.
Hi,
I just received my new SGSII phone today, charged it to 100% and started using it.
Went through some settings and started downloading new apps from market, after 30minutes of use, and downloaded about 10apps, the last app that was downloading and installing was: Skype.
The screen started flimmering, and would not respond, also the screen went on a lower brightness.
I held in the power button to turn it off, now it wont turn on anymore.
Ive tried taking out and in the battery, theres no "charge" battery when i charge it, its just plain and simple.. Dead..
Anyone else experienced something with this? Is there anything i can try, or do i have to send it back..? Kinda irritating been waiting for this phone for 7months..
Thanks in advance for tips & help!
i suggest you return it promptly and get a replacement..when i first got the gs2 i tried all kind of apps and tests on it including lcd test etc etc..and nil issues at all untill the bettery totally drained..than only i connected the charger and rested the phone.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Yeah i guess its my only choice, talked to them earlier i can get a fix from 3-6days, most likely 6days because of the incoming weekend, i get the returnbag in my mail tomorrow.
Tried to browse for some answers, tried 20+ different combinations of charger+battery+power no hope so far, ill keep it updated if i find some random fix!
Initial thought would be a dead battery as those are the symptoms .
But if it will not recharge with phone off its a bit of the hardware blown i guess .
jje
Does this phone just suck or these are common Samsung Issues?
Why are so many people complaining of a device dying on them after a day or 2. I could imagine some idiot dropping it, or sitting on it. But to see a device die from installing application is plain stupid.
Seriously considering looking at alternate options.
dhruvmalik said:
Does this phone just suck or these are common Samsung Issues?
Why are so many people complaining of a device dying on them after a day or 2. I could imagine some idiot dropping it, or sitting on it. But to see a device die from installing application is plain stupid.
Seriously considering looking at alternate options.
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I reckon you're just seeing a small proportion of vocal people complaining about their phone. I've had my phone for two days so far and have had no hardware issues to speak of.
When you do large volume releases, faults are inevitable. I doubt if you bought a new release iphone (eg. iphone 5... when it comes out) that you wouldn't have people whining about issues with their phone either.
I certainly do see people whining about iPhones as well, but not in a broad range. Meaning, software issues, application issues, battery issues, screen issues.
In either case, this phone is great and I will most likely get it anyway, BUT it seems that the complaints are more wide spread where anyone can have an issue in any department at any given time. SO EVEN if you have your device in perfect condition at the time of purchase, 2 days later and issue can arise while trying to UPDATE a FW to cause a device to die.
A good percentage of my job is customer service(Any retail/service manager knows) and with that we have to make people happy. Generally we give surveys to the customers and hopefully they call/email to corporate to get our numbers up to standards.
What we and my coworkers learned long ago, most people who actually call to do surveys are usually complainers or people with issues. People who complain voices are louder.
If I make a thread saying how great my 3 week old samsung galaxy s2 is, it would probably get 20-30 post tops with maybe a 100 views.
If I make a complaint thread after owning a day, also threatening other sgs2 user with devices like sensation, iphone etc, that thread would get 100-200 post and 1000 views.
Believe me, theres more people with positive feedback then there is negative. I have none of the issues mentioned.
dhruvmalik said:
I certainly do see people whining ab
out iPhones as well, but not in a broad range. Meaning, software issues, application issues, battery issues, screen issues.
In either case, this phone is great and I will most likely get it anyway, BUT it seems that the complaints are more wide spread where anyone can have an issue in any department at any given time. SO EVEN if you have your device in perfect condition at the time of purchase, 2 days later and issue can arise while trying to UPDATE a FW to cause a device to die.
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dhruvmalik said:
Seriously considering looking at alternate options.
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This is like the tenth post from someone who doesn't have the phone bashing it and then ending with passive-aggressive statements like: "I'm going to cancel my order," "I'm keeping my (insert phone here)," or "seriously considering looking at alternate options." Then a bunch of people leap to the defense of the phone and try to convince them to get it. Without offense, to you and the other nine people, I don't care what phone you get. And I don't know you well enough to invest my time trying to convincing you one way or the other. There are probably a hundred thousand of these phones out in the wild. There are probably 100 user complaints on this board (not counting the same 100 people making the same complaint ten times). You do the math. If you want perfect, don't by anything electronic when its first released. Go read the G2X/O2X boards, you'll feel better about the SGS2.
Its funny because most threads created are only 2-3max users thats having a problem. Nothings wide spread. Also havent seen any credible people making complaints. Its all new users and people that have been around long enough should know better.
BarryH_GEG said:
This is like the tenth post from someone who doesn't have the phone bashing it and then ending with passive-aggressive statements like: "I'm going to cancel my order," "I'm keeping my (insert phone here)," or "seriously considering looking at alternate options." Then a bunch of people leap to the defense of the phone and try to convince them to get it. Without offense, to you and the other nine people, I don't care what phone you get. And I don't know you well enough to invest my time trying to convincing you one way or the other. There are probably a hundred thousand of these phones out in the wild. There are probably 100 user complaints on this board (not counting the same 100 people making the same complaint ten times). You do the math. If you want perfect, don't by anything electronic when its first released. Go read the G2X/O2X boards, you'll feel better about the SGS2.
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Click to collapse
intruda119 said:
A good percentage of my job is customer service(Any retail/service manager knows) and with that we have to make people happy. Generally we give surveys to the customers and hopefully they call/email to corporate to get our numbers up to standards.
What we and my coworkers learned long ago, most people who actually call to do surveys are usually complainers or people with issues. People who complain voices are louder.
If I make a thread saying how great my 3 week old samsung galaxy s2 is, it would probably get 20-30 post tops with maybe a 100 views.
If I make a complaint thread after owning a day, also threatening other sgs2 user with devices like sensation, iphone etc, that thread would get 100-200 post and 1000 views.
Believe me, theres more people with positive feedback then there is negative. I have none of the issues mentioned.
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Click to collapse
While I agree with you that most people will not post their excellent experience in a thread, some do, and this certainly gives a positive response to the device. But when you visit a forum and continuously see new threads occurring with issues, it gives off the wrong impression. At this point, there is no other device that can live up to what Samsung is offering, even if you argue HTC or Motorola do, they lack in some ways or the other.
Thanks for your input.
BarryH_GEG said:
This is like the tenth post from someone who doesn't have the phone bashing it and then ending with passive-aggressive statements like: "I'm going to cancel my order," "I'm keeping my (insert phone here)," or "seriously considering looking at alternate options." Then a bunch of people leap to the defense of the phone and try to convince them to get it. Without offense, to you and the other nine people, I don't care what phone you get. And I don't know you well enough to invest my time trying to convincing you one way or the other. There are probably a hundred thousand of these phones out in the wild. There are probably 100 user complaints on this board (not counting the same 100 people making the same complaint ten times). You do the math. If you want perfect, don't by anything electronic when its first released. Go read the G2X/O2X boards, you'll feel better about the SGS2.
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Click to collapse
Correct, I dont have the device hence I am on a forum trying to gather as much information before I make the purchase. If you feel like expressing that people are only here complaining about this device lacking a great build quality, consider how many other people here are mentioning a similar point of an issue.
This is a forum and people can express their opinions, if you do not like what people have to say, just move on to the next topic and let this one go on without you.
But to not be a hypocrite, I will also gladly accept your suggestions and move on to the next topic.
Hopefully the device that ends up in my hands is issue free, unfortunately in India, you have to try to deal with a service agency who only has you to blame for a manufacture's defect. "Guilty until proven innocent" and not vice versa. This is why people are a bit more concerned, its easier for me to get a swap when I am back in the U.S, but not here buddy.
Thought it might be a circuit board problem or so, but after having the battery out all night, guess what.. it turns on again?
After 15minutes use, same thing, screen goes darken with a flimmering. I press some buttons, alot of white stripes appear, and after that blue lines appear and i shut it down, starts up, gets to the pin-code and it locks up, twice, and now it wont start up again.
So im not sure what the problem might be, but im gonna have the battery out for a few hours and try a hard reset, anyone know the buttons for that? (Reset factory settings)
If that does not work, its going in to the workshops later today
Even with these errors, i still think the phone is great though Got a 3590 quadrant score out of box!
*Edit, had the battery out for 1hour 30minutes, tried holding volume up + home + power, no reaction, tried just the power button, no reaction.
Guess ill try to have the battery out for even longer and see, should probably give a note to the serviceguys that it might work for a few minutes before it breaks so they dont think its OK and send it back lol.