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Hello everyone,
This is my first posting on XDA developers thought i've been following the community for quite some time as its helped me with a lot of my other phones in the past.
Eclair is probably going to be the last major release for the Experia 10 family. Froyo was originally being considered to be released in August but unfortunately change of management that occurred several times last year and this year kept changing, ending and starting new project all over the place at SE.
Eclair has been ready for some time to be released and the past few months has been a constant battle to get people to agree to release Froyo instead of Eclair.
Long story short, Froyo is a no go and Eclair is what is being released. It is currently being pushed out to the various operators for branding.
Furthermore, future Android releases will be customized for future phones and not the X10i, X10 mini/pro
these days it is so easy to say something with out proof!!
If you believe it or not that is your own choice. I'm not making claims that SE will release anything any time soon. Rather im saying that they wont!
Which is the major difference here. The fact that I posted on here today is because I got fed up of everything that is going on in the office.
Its not that 2.2 cant be released its that they just simply wont release it.
do you work at se?
yeah like you say. it's your first post. and you speak like a se spokesperson or something lol
unless you are an insider, i don't know how you'd be able to say what you said with 100% certainty.
but we are not waiting for SE to release an update!!
we are waiting for our dev!!
yes... and yes...
Bull**** in my ass. SE will relese 2.2 in end of Q4 2010 or Q1 2011. Got it from SE in Sweden.
Sent from my X10i
HAHA...great, now we have 2 unsubstantiated claims about Froyo.
Skepticism aside, the argument as presented here makes sense. Hopefully it's a mistake or troll but anyone who's seen corporate politics up close will be all too familiar with events like these.
So if true: Thanks for the information. If it's not: Eff off you trolling low-life.
If things turn out this way it's an even bigger reason to crack the bootloader or for SE to release a warranty-voiding unlocked loader.
Well,
Seeing as I work at SE on the SE DEV team in Sweden I would like to think that the information I have is fresh off the press so to say.
The information you have with regards to 2.2 being released in Q4 maybe Q1 was the original plan yes.
But you enjoy that update when it comes out FreeKill.
Thanks ddewbofh,
I didn't expect people to be so offensive in their response when information is being given and not about an amazing even rather about an upsetting set of news.
I have more confidence in Cyanogenmod will be available to x10i rather than an official Froyo release.
In principle, you should be able to flash Froyo that is provided by google directly. There are 2 major things stopping you from doing that.
1. The phones that the public has are flagged as "Red" for retail phones and the dev phones are flagged as brown... please don't ask why those colors.
This means that even if I were to get a phone from one of the stores take it back into the office and try to flash it with our own tools then it wont work.
2. The modem software that is provided by the general release from Google does not work on the x10i phones.
However, once the bootloader is cracked you can always grab the modem package from a dump and included to the general release.
so, do you have a access to engineering bootloader?
Well, needless to say if you were to leak a copy of your tools we could get it working given a little time
Just out of interest you say "flagged" is that a software or hardware flag?
So since its already ready so to speak...
Im sure a copy leaked underground wont hurt anyone ...
edit:
I know about the colours... dont you have a tool to change the certificates from retail to dev?
Also there must be a modem tool out there that you know of that could possible work...
Well, it's going to be SE's choice.
If their corporate bull**** is going to screw their customers, they will move on. Hell, I know at least 5 persons who sold their X10 for a shiny new SGS, even when the X10's hardware is far superior than the SGS (Not talking about actual performance, but overall hardware obviously)
It would be a pitty, really. For the people like me who live in a country where your only option is to use an unlocked phone, because our carriers do not have a different kind of option, the X10 is the best Android handset in the market for the right price.
Sure, the SGS has better hardware performance, but it also cost almost twice as much as the X10 around here... and the other HTC stuff can't compete with the X10 as a whole package (Camera, picture quality, LCD, media player, sound quality)
I don't know why is so hard for SE to excel. To let their customers, and the other manufacturers know that the brand is best of the best. That they are going to give their product the best it can handle, until it can't handle it anymore (Like Gingerbread, for example) like HTC does. Shame that I don't like HTC handsets, the build quality is crap, the camera and sound quality are even worse... they only work as a cell phone, not as a whole multimedia package, like the X10.
If this is real, then the X10 will be my last SE phone. I stopped using them after ALL their phones became crap after the glorious w810i. This is my first SE phone in 4 years after having SE phones only, and would be my last if they let me down again.
I agree. You're potentially lost you're job anyway.
You might aswell hand over the goods. You, as a dev, woulda understand that Android is meant to be open source; Therefor you should have no quams in providing a more positive outlook on a product you have worked hard on.
Or just throw it all into that other ugly phone. Just sayin'
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
EDIT: Just out of curiosity, you say you have been watching this forum did a while. What was the general consensus when you informed your team the X10 was rooted? I'm merely curious as to your stand point on locking the phone down so much.
SELeak, if this information is true and our only hope for Froyo/Gingerbread is through cracking the bootloader, how about some more "insider information" on how we could get this done? If you really wanna help the community, help us get through Sony's "let's protect everything because we're paranoid" bootloader.
first of, big thanks to SELeak for sharing his info
i think if you were to share more in-depth info about the bootloader etc, you should contact the team that made the root for x10 possible, if you are willing, contact me on PM, i will give you the info how to get in direct contact with somebody from the team, if they have't contacted you already
best regards
Your title might also be taken as misleading, as Froyo is not a "major release" per say. Version 2.1 to 2.2 is a minor release in my book.
SELeak said:
Hello everyone,
This is my first posting on XDA developers thought i've been following the community for quite some time as its helped me with a lot of my other phones in the past.
Eclair is probably going to be the last major release for the Experia 10 family. Froyo was originally being considered to be released in August but unfortunately change of management that occurred several times last year and this year kept changing, ending and starting new project all over the place at SE.
Eclair has been ready for some time to be released and the past few months has been a constant battle to get people to agree to release Froyo instead of Eclair.
Long story short, Froyo is a no go and Eclair is what is being released. It is currently being pushed out to the various operators for branding.
Furthermore, future Android releases will be customized for future phones and not the X10i, X10 mini/pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
karendar said:
SELeak, if this information is true and our only hope for Froyo/Gingerbread is through cracking the bootloader, how about some more "insider information" on how we could get this done? If you really wanna help the community, help us get through Sony's "let's protect everything because we're paranoid" bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+10
SELeak, if you do in fact work for SE development, the community here would very much appreciate any assistance you could give in helping to crack the bootloader.
However, as it stands this thread really doesn't belong in the Android Development forum, as it isn't directly contributing to Android development on the X10.
I'm a big SE fan, but this somehow makes me smile....
www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-0...e-world-s-largest-android-phone-supplier.html
Haha Darn! you beat me by a minute!
It'll be the Japanese market.. the X10 is more popular than air over there..!!!!
More like Android 1.6's largest handset maker
yeah and i want to become worlds greatest dictator
I wouldn't dismiss the idea that quickly. Here in Sweden SE is a very popular brand and by the looks of it they're popular in Japan as well. If they decide to go with Android on all their future phones and start marketing them more aggressively in the US they have a chance. They have the production capacity for it, they're well known and even if all models aren't fantastic there's no denying the build quality of their devices. Even though I've passed up SE phones because of their crappy software I've always been impressed by how well built and solid their phones feel.
With good marketing and if they get better at working on Android their chances are pretty good. They have the infrastructure to reach that goal, that goes a long way.
Yes, but you must agree that their android software department need to be improved in order to reach that goal...
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
mezo9090 said:
Yes, but you must agree that their android software department need to be improved in order to reach that goal...
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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Agreed, but keep in mind that the X10 series is the first time SE has used it. I'd be more worried or surprised if there weren't any bumps in the road.
Just looking at the updates we've had so far they've improved a lot. Fixing the battery issue, improving the built-in software and so on.
ddewbofh said:
Agreed, but keep in mind that the X10 series is the first time SE has used it. I'd be more worried or surprised if there weren't any bumps in the road.
Just looking at the updates we've had so far they've improved a lot. Fixing the battery issue, improving the built-in software and so on.
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dude its not about flaws in their software ... its about how they handle it ...
the incall volume is so ****ed up for a lot of people - when you talk to the customer support they tell you something like this "for me its okay - if you dont like it you can send your phone in" their official support form is full with topics about it ... same goes for the standby time ... it says 17 days on their homepage ... i asked customer support about it and he told me my phone must be damaged - i can send it in ... (he also said he gets 3 days of standy - i am pretty sure it doesnt even last 17 days when you turn it completely off^^)
i knew the support would suck ... but the hardware is quite good (besides from the lack of multitouch) - i just bought it coz i have faith in the community that they ll release custom roms soon
SE has released only one(3 version of same) android phone in the market in past 2 years when HTC has released atleast 4 or 5 and plus they are upto 2.2 on most of their phones. I don't think SE can catch to them any time soon just based ads showing Timescape
SE ship twie the number of phones as compared to HTC having come down from a stage where they shipped 6x more phones. So they are pretty capable as we all know. Now with Sony into the mix, SE phones would have PS3 compatibility, remote play, access to Sonys own online store, access to more Sony brands like VAIO, BRAVIA, etc. Well..
Sony has been associated with Ericsson for ages (from an IT time perspective) so one would think they'd at least be nipping at Nokia's heels by now. But who knows? Maybe Android will be the push they need to pump some much needed energy in to the brand? Time will tell, as long as they don't ditch Android I'll stay satisfied.
xGary said:
More like Android 1.6's largest handset maker
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right 100%
Yeah that'll only happen if the secret owner of Sony Ericsson is Chuck Norris... cause only Chuck Norris can make that happen..! lol
They sure have the hardware capacity to get it done, but they are just so stupid and arrogant that I do not think it'll ever happen.
If they're serious, I'd swap in the current software department for some new blood.
It's really crazy how companies nowadays can't even get simple things done right.
As the old saying goes... "too many chiefs and not enough indians".
Until SE gets their act together and stops all the internal bickering and movement within the ranks, this will never be a realistic goal for them to achieve.
I think it's time we eased up on slamming SE. Since we don't actually know how the process works internally it's unpossible to tell if they're just lazy, they're still getting used to a new product line or any other unforeseen problem for that sake.
I intentionally refrain from calling them incompetent simply because my experiences with their products in the past has been great and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
ddewbofh said:
I think it's time we eased up on slamming SE. Since we don't actually know how the process works internally it's unpossible to tell if they're just lazy, they're still getting used to a new product line or any other unforeseen problem for that sake.
I intentionally refrain from calling them incompetent simply because my experiences with their products in the past has been great and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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Click to collapse
I agree with your statement. We don't really know the reason. I read it in some post somewhere else that it's ready, but they want to test it thoroughly before releasing to the general public...
Whoever is responsible for being so slow to update, I somehow doubt that it's their developers. They are just doing what they are told by management. If Sonys developers are anything like other software devs I know they are not too happy with releasing their product with 1.6 instead of 2.1 or 2.2...
ddewbofh said:
...unpossible...
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Impossimpable! (Hope someone gets it - HIMYM).
jk btw don't take badly
we have been through a very harsh process of finally getting the 2.1 update on our phones, SE said to have another update on the UIX by december and now I have seen the multi touch working officialy by Rikard on the SE Blog, said by him to have it enabled by the next year Q1 with another update.
This looks like the guys over SE likes to keep their users kind of frustrated with future hopes of getting the phone better with updates, I'm starting to think that they see this like a game
ellokomen said:
we have been through a very harsh process of finally getting the 2.1 update on our phones, SE said to have another update on the UIX by december and now I have seen the multi touch working officialy by Rikard on the SE Blog, said by him to have it enabled by the next year Q1 with another update.
This looks like the guys over SE likes to keep their users kind of frustrated with future hopes of getting the phone better with updates, I'm starting to think that they see this like a game
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Click to collapse
If they are updating the OS frequently it only shows how they care for their device and want it to be better in my opinion.
Why does it bother you if they are working on an update?
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Versus the non-update game SE typically does?
I'm fine with them improving our phones. Bring it on SE!
Btw there isn't an update in December....that was pushed to "early 2011" and my guess is that multitouch will be included in that update
pngface said:
that was pushed to "early 2011"
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I think the update comming out to SEUS 31/03-11 (The day before the 4. Quarter)
Maybe Sony Ericsson dont have lots os programmers, and they are not good enough to do the things before the others, the Android 1.6 are ver good costumized by SE, but there are things that needs to be programmed, like:
- Multitouch (driver)
- 16M colors (driver)
- Audio (actual driver is very bad)
- Android 2.2 (costumize and optimize to X10)
I would rather say that they have very good cryptographic team, because that is from what I can see, the best they have on their hardware.
The update in December is delayed to Q1, its the same as the one Rikard mentioned. However this will be another big update, not just enabling partial MT. Though the FW is set to launch in early January, so we should see alot of these new FW stuff at CES which I'll also be there
unknown13x said:
The update in December is delayed to Q1, its the same as the one Rikard mentioned. However this will be another big update, not just enabling partial MT. Though the FW is set to launch in early January, so we should see alot of these new FW stuff at CES which I'll also be there
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Cool! Its been a while since we've heard from you
Any idea what the other features are? (*hint* - froyo ? )
Update game or not, im personally fine with it and I think it only shows SE cares about us and the device. They weren't going to implement multi touch but I think they chose to do so because of us the users. If you ask me I say bravo to SE and this might restore some faith into the SE bashers.....it could be a possible sign for froyo.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
I can't help but laugh at all the haters who already sold their phones after reading this, i knew about the update but not that it would bring MT.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Tjotte said:
I can't help but laugh at all the haters who already sold their phones after reading this, i knew about the update but not that it would bring MT.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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The X10 was, up to just recently, an incredibly crippled phone. Officially running 1.6 into the tenth month of 2010 is an embarrassment. I wouldn't laugh at anyone who decided to cut their losses and look for a better alternative.
The devs on XDA deserve a lot of credit for their perseverance. It is them that made this phone relevant again. Not SE's "brilliant engineers".
jayluke said:
The X10 was, up to just recently, an incredibly crippled phone. Officially running 1.6 into the tenth month of 2010 is an embarrassment. I wouldn't laugh at anyone who decided to cut their losses and look for a better alternative.
The devs on XDA deserve a lot of credit for their perseverance. It is them that made this phone relevant again. Not SE's "brilliant engineers".
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Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more about both points.
Personally I'm still very resentful towards SE and will not buy nor recommend any of their products for a least a couple years. The whole talking up THEIR "brilliant engineers" is just more bull**** and pisses me off, is that supposed to be a slap in the face to all the devs out there working to fix their mistakes? Why not tell us the truth about the hardware all along? Why cripple your phone with outdated buggy software and program it not to have multi-touch? What is the incentive there?
At least they're finally listening to all the negative feedback they've been getting, but still...a big part of me wanted to see the devs accomplish multi-touch and Froyo before SE.
Mr Patchy Patch said:
Update game or not, im personally fine with it and I think it only shows SE cares about us and the device. They weren't going to implement multi touch but I think they chose to do so because of us the users. If you ask me I say bravo to SE and this might restore some faith into the SE bashers.....it could be a possible sign for froyo.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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Click to collapse
They LIED about the MT since the beginning man. They said the screen was resistive and not capacitive and now they say "oh...we didn't realize it was capacitive. sorry!" Right they didn't...they do not know their own hardware they are developing for?
They do not care...they launched a phone with an outdated OS when 2.1 was already out and it took them 6 months to skin it and add in their branded goods. Now the X12 is going to be launched with 2.1 when 3.0 will be out upon its launch...see a trend here? I personally do not think they care and will never buy another SE phone. Pretty sure many feel the same...see the value of the X10's on eBay now? Dirt and yet the Nexus, older, is selling for $500+ still with the vanilla OS on it. What does that tell you? Function over fashion. Bring on the 2.2 ROM from Jerpelea & Z That will be the saving grace for me and allow me to keep this phone a bit longer. Pretty much every other newer Android phone out there has MT so this phone getting MT after almost a year really is not something to be excited over. Especially when it will only be enabled for surfing and Google maps!?
Udonitron said:
They LIED about the MT since the beginning man. They said the screen was resistive and not capacitive and now they say "oh...we didn't realize it was capacitive. sorry!" Right they didn't...they do not know their own hardware they are developing for?
They do not care...they launched a phone with an outdated OS when 2.1 was already out and it took them 6 months to skin it and add in their branded goods. Now the X12 is going to be launched with 2.1 when 3.0 will be out upon its launch...see a trend here? I personally do not think they care and will never buy another SE phone. Pretty sure many feel the same...see the value of the X10's on eBay now? Dirt and yet the Nexus, older, is selling for $500+ still with the vanilla OS on it. What does that tell you? Function over fashion. Bring on the 2.2 ROM from Jerpelea & Z That will be the saving grace for me and allow me to keep this phone a bit longer. Pretty much every other newer Android phone out there has MT so this phone getting MT after almost a year really is not something to be excited over. Especially when it will only be enabled for surfing and Google maps!?
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Click to collapse
There's a lot of hate for SE, but as long as they try to improve the SE experience for those with SE phones, I'm happy. Could they be doing better? Just enabling MT for the X10 is so much more than what they have done in the past. Maybe it's because I had a Nokia as my last phone that I'm happy with any substantial improvement in the OS, haha.
I forgot where I read it, but the turnaround time from new OS to handset is roughly 4 months (it used to be nearly 12 months). Froyo (2.2) came out in May and it's only been in the last couple months where handsets have been getting 2.2. The exception is the N1, but then again, that was sold as a phone for enthusiasts (and pretty much what they're using to test it on). When Gingerbread (2.3) comes out, you can expect at least another 4 months before it gets pushed OTA (besides the N1 and the NS). As they learn Android, I'm sure they'll be faster in issuing updates. Motorola was (and sometimes is) pretty slow in pushing updates for their phones but now they're cranking it out.
In regards to multi-touch... Did they ever say resistive? They were up front when they said it wasn't going to have MT. Yeah, but I agree they should have had it on the X10 in the first place. The N1 didn't have MT at first and they were quick to add it. Nexus One's MT is the same as the future X10 MT. They both are designed for pinch to zoom applications, its a limitation found in the hardware. Games will work but it will have the same multi-touch limitations as the N1. And of course - phones that have just come out have better multitouch... they're newer phones based on newer chipsets which use newer technologies.
I dont get the big idea about MT, its not a big thing, hardly use it on my wildfire.
In regards to the x10 launched with 1.6 for me it was running better than any other device with 2.1 on there. Touch wood but ive never had any problems apart from the in ear volume. So what if the value has dropped. Its the sentimental value that counts.
I praise the devs for their hardwork. Also SE...however i will say Rikard and SE need to get off their fat arses and stop delaying everything.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using XDA App
rvictorg said:
Couldn't agree more about both points.
Personally I'm still very resentful towards SE and will not buy nor recommend any of their products for a least a couple years. The whole talking up THEIR "brilliant engineers" is just more bull**** and pisses me off, is that supposed to be a slap in the face to all the devs out there working to fix their mistakes? Why not tell us the truth about the hardware all along? Why cripple your phone with outdated buggy software and program it not to have multi-touch? What is the incentive there?
At least they're finally listening to all the negative feedback they've been getting, but still...a big part of me wanted to see the devs accomplish multi-touch and Froyo before SE.
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i think ur taking it too far man...personally i think 1.6 was pretty good and after i updated to 2.1 i was very pleased. the updating was easy and i easily restored my contacts using the default backup and restore app
the battery life on the x10 is incredible, consitently get about 2 full days of regular usage(surfing net before classes, a little talking, some txting and listening to 1-2 hrs of music everyday). while my friend with the iphone 4 complains about terrible battery and dropped calls(he has a case too!)
the phone looks very nice and feels solid, the software isn't "buggy" i haven't had any problems with it at all(no root or anything btw). and the 2.1 version is soo smooth and looks very nice compared to say a stock android 2.1. people complain about mediascape and timescape, but personally i love them timescape doesn't use too much cpu if u disable the services (like txt, email, fb, etc) and mediascape is miles ahead of android in media playing ability.
and just to remind you, those engineers are working very hard, remember they have to develop the software for the phone from scratch and optimize every bit of it, and yes the developers here do a lot of work, but they just have to fix what the engineers messed up or modify some files, and with thousands of lines of code, its easy to mess up somewhere. im a chemical engineering major right now, and i dont know anything about computers, but in general engineers are very bright people and probably know what they are doing better than what we do.
though im not a se fanboy (this is my first se product and might be my last) some people need to tone it down. stop ranting against se like theyre the antichrist. this is my first android phone so i was still amazed with my phone even with 1.6. (android 1.6 is waaaaay better than ios 3.0) and after flashing to 2.1 my phone is enough to make my friends agree that my x10 is better than one of our friend's iphone 4 (i wouldnt be so sure of that but when they see me multitasking with widgets, live wallpaper, H connection what evr the hell that is, and removeable parts like batteries, memory, sim, etc. its hard to disagree) i will admit the x10 is nerfed by se but if you wanted a phone that focused more on android rather than custom software you should have done your research. i knew from the begining that my phone was an "android" but with se's "timescape and mediascape" ontop of "1.6" which is outdated. i also read that mt wasnt available and most likely wouldnt be. these are the things that piss people off yet these are the things you always see in online reviews, the research isnt hard. i knew what i was reading before i even knew what the terms fully meant. luckily we have devs to help fix these problems, but as i said earlier once i can upgrade i doubt ill get a se phone again (unless that psphone turns out to be real and stable, that thing looks sweet)
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
one think we should thank to the updates is that the price of the device that had dropped very down, maybe getting up right now.
so we have:
android 2.1,
1ghz,
4 inches
and
MT coming soon.
Try to catch a phone with those features with less than 360 bucks on ebay, only the X10.
I was thinking to getting the droid 2 GSM when it comes out, but now I really like my phone with those new things.
And the upcoming android 2.2 will be very welcome among us
SE works hard to make their devices with a pleasant experience, just like apple do with their iphones that have the best out-of-the-box experience among smartphone. even if Sony doesn't have the best state of the art technology on the world of android, we cannot deny that the UI has been carefully finished.
and btw, the x10 with 2.1 is among the best battery life GSM android phones right now, just ask someone who owns a Evo 4G about battery life and you will get it
Note: the H up there means HSDPA, which is commonly known as 3.5G for internet access, sometimes it will go to 3G again because of low signal or very congested network
I love the update game and hope it continues since it feels like I have a new phone every time a big update comes out. I find it incredible that people complain about SE keeping the promise they made to support the phone for 2 years.
** This is a debate thread, I'm not talking of lawsuit... yet **
Guys, I'm thinking about something since SE officially said the current XPERIA phones will be abandonned.
Let's figure this :
1. Sony Ericsson is officially abandonning us ;
2. We have here (and on other fora) a strong community of users, and capable developers in every domain (kernel, graphics, etc etc). Each of us can help in any domain related (programming, graphics, bug report, help for newbies, etc etc etc)
Regarding these, we should try to make together kind of "class action", to force SE to give us what we need for further development.
It can become a "real" class-action, it can be a petition, etc etc, all ideas are welcome.
The request must include, and for ALL current abandonned XPERIA phones (X10, x10 mini, x10 mini pro, x8) :
- Kernel source code (we almost got it)
- Bootloader source-code with no encryption or generic unencrypted bootloader
- All source code drivers
- All source code for the preinstalled apps in the last realease (2.1)
- All original graphics
- All source code for SE upcoming "patches" (as multitouch-like one).
- Anything else needed for future support I may forget here (please tell).
This will allow us to continue development on our XPERIAs. And we'll need these, because if we don't get them, even our community won't be able to do great things... If we got such things, we'd be able to run our phones on 2.2 and now 2.3 with no problem -- and look how it is today : we can, but very buggy because we start from nothing.
So I ask everybody to join our strengh and do something to get all we need to keep our XPERIAs alive !!!
Our phones are not even 1 year old, so please don't let all of us alone. I also strongly encourage to tell everyone who is concerned about this (we need as many people as we can to force Sony-Ericsson) : other fora, people you know, blogs, etc etc... If we don't do anything, our phones are good for trash.
THANKS IN ADVANCE !
Sorry, but this is positively silly.
They will not give you *anything* that they're not legally entitled to (which I think is only the code for the OS, which they already do).
And do you mean class-action as a lawsuit? If so, it's a positively worthlesss endeavor. All that will happen is that some lawyers will get rich and you'll get a 5$ off coupon the next Sony-Ericsson.
Bootloader is proprietary. They're probably using this same bootloader for the upcoming phones and the generations after. They're not going to hand over the keys.
Drivers are also proprietary. A lot of times, code for the drivers are licensed by the manufacturer, so even if SE wanted to 'give it away', they couldn't. Look at the openmoko phone and their driver issues since their inception (2004?).
Source code for preinstalled apps? Like moxier and creatatouch? First, they probably license these apps either from other developers or an in-house studio. Why would anyone want any of these softwares in the first place?
Graphics? I think the community can come up with better and isn't it pretty easy to rip the graphics?
All upcoming patches? Seriously? Why do any work at all at this point? the multitouch 'patch' is actually an updated driver.
Petitions and the like aren't going to do anything. If you're upset, then write a letter to SE. Not e-mail, but letters. Don't buy future SE phones and dissuade others from doing so. Learn cryptography and do a fault based attack on the RSA encryption scheme used to unlock the bootloader. Hell, get a job for SE and steal everything, lol (that last one is a joke... very big crime). SE knows people are pissed but they don't see it as financially beneficial to do any future major updates (major as in kernel change or substantial usability change). Let them ignore the long term outlook by pissing off their current users.
Seriously, these stupid threads have got to stop.
totalundone said:
Sorry, but this is positively silly.
They will not give you *anything* that they're not legally entitled to (which I think is only the code for the OS, which they already do).
And do you mean class-action as a lawsuit? If so, it's a positively worthlesss endeavor. All that will happen is that some lawyers will get rich and you'll get a 5$ off coupon the next Sony-Ericsson.
Bootloader is proprietary. They're probably using this same bootloader for the upcoming phones and the generations after. They're not going to hand over the keys.
Drivers are also proprietary. A lot of times, code for the drivers are licensed by the manufacturer, so even if SE wanted to 'give it away', they couldn't. Look at the openmoko phone and their driver issues since their inception (2004?).
Source code for preinstalled apps? Like moxier and creatatouch? First, they probably license these apps either from other developers or an in-house studio. Why would anyone want any of these softwares in the first place?
Graphics? I think the community can come up with better and isn't it pretty easy to rip the graphics?
All upcoming patches? Seriously? Why do any work at all at this point? the multitouch 'patch' is actually an updated driver.
Petitions and the like aren't going to do anything. If you're upset, then write a letter to SE. Not e-mail, but letters. Don't buy future SE phones and dissuade others from doing so. Learn cryptography and do a fault based attack on the RSA encryption scheme used to unlock the bootloader. Hell, get a job for SE and steal everything, lol (that last one is a joke... very big crime). SE knows people are pissed but they don't see it as financially beneficial to do any future major updates (major as in kernel change or substantial usability change). Let them ignore the long term outlook by pissing off their current users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree on this,
SE is not abandoning any customers, but they look at things in terms of financial benefit, they will not obey to any demands from anyone.
so there is no point of starting threads like since it will not change anything.
i have still not seen anything official from sony that they are abandoning the x10 series....
FYI, they've release 4 updates in less than a month's time. this is typically not actions of a company abondoning a product line.
Facebook 10 hours ago -
Hi Harman and Jenthe,
We have recently decided to not step up to Android 2.2 or 2.3 for Xperia X10. Our software developers have made this decision based on their opinion saying that a step-up would not enhance the overall user experience. Xperia X10 operates at it's best on Android 2.1.
I'm sorry if you feel this way Jenthe. It's not our intent to make our users unhappy of course.
We will however not abandon this phone. We will keep developing on 2.1 and multi touch / pinch zoom is planned to be released in a coming update for Xperia X10.
You can read more about this in this post,
http://blogs.sonyericsson.com/products/2010/11/17/work-ongoing-on-pinch-zoom-for-xperia-x10/
-Markus
Sony Ericsson Answers Team
--i feel an official annoucement is close---
uh, you seriously trust something something posted by someone on "the answer team"?
you do realize that these people are basically the same as call center workers, right?
x10 official support forum
Hello Everyone,
My message here is purely one of acknowledgement. We understand your anger, we see your obvious frustration, and we are certainly saddened by your new impressions of our company and products.
I won't repeat any of the comments from my colleagues on our Blog, Facebook, or Twitter. You've seen it all before.
We are here, we are listening, we are working hard to make sure we can impress you in the future if you chose us again.
-Martha
Sony Ericsson Answers Team
it evens sounds like there backtracking the 2 year support too with ...
Hi,
Really quick: We have stated we typically support devices for UP TO 2 years after launch.
This obviously applies to the date of first launch in whatever country it's available in first.
The key here is "up to", if I remember correctly, you mentioned Nokia does the same thing
http://talk.sonyericsson.com/message/45612#45612
and
It did at one point states we would support phones for "up to 2 years after launch" at www.sonyericsson.com/update. This was changed some time ago
http://talk.sonyericsson.com/message/45612#45612
i really hope your right and these customer service advisers aint got the foggiest but the message is getting out there by facebook, twitter, and the support forums.
Sony wouldnt even give permission to the World of Spectrum site to release old ZX Spectrum games and the Spectrum was abandoned nearly 20 years ago. No hope im afraid.
I am as p*ssed as the next guy, but this is getting silly.
Petitions are one thing, it expresses our annoyance, but this?!?!?!?
A step too far.
I won't even bother explaining why as I can't be arsed to be honest.
Sod SE, let our devs do it instead, they obviously have the skills lacking by SE.
..............
I see that someone can actually read others posts, as I was the one who originally posted about a 'class action', and that was only to get Android 2.2 on our phones, as SE in Turkey had previously released an Email saying they were working on, and would release 2.2! I'm sure you know that SE released another email soon after, saying that SE Turkey had made a mistake and 2.2 would not be released on the X10.
Thread post can be read here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10527595#post10527595 post 163
Just because they are not updating the x10 to 2.2 doesn't mean they have abandoned us. Just like the multi-touch update, there will probably be more enhancements to 2.1
Lee1972 said:
Sony wouldnt even give permission to the World of Spectrum site to release old ZX Spectrum games and the Spectrum was abandoned nearly 20 years ago. No hope im afraid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats because they're selling these games at PlayStation Store for PS3 now...
Buisness is buisness as they say.
Nothing we can do about it OP
Erofich said:
thats because they're selling these games at PlayStation Store for PS3 now...
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Click to collapse
The actual Spectrum games or remakes? Theres around 8 Spectrum games Sony refused WOS to free distribution, the originals would look crap on a phone let alone PS3!
All x10 users should get upgrades to an arc for no more than 100 dollars as soon as its available for being delt such a lacking smartphone. Haha
Meaning SE should do this for us to make things up to us.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
mrljlamon said:
All x10 users should get upgrades to an arc for no more than 100 dollars as soon as its available for being delt such a lacking smartphone. Haha
Meaning SE should do this for us to make things up to us.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Realistically, SE doesn't really owe us anything, and I promise that they are not going to give you anything either.
Even if a bunch of you swore off SE phones, they would still be alright, and it would cost them more to give us all rebates than it would to just try for a new customer base.
Good luck with that though,
Also this thread is ridiculous. No one is getting anything
Guys, please note I didn't talk of class-action, I'm talking about a "class-action" move : what I mean is not to do something penal (but it can be), but it is to join all users and see together what we can do.
Because of course Sony won't listen if there are only 1, 10 or 10 000 people complaining a bit, and much more users are shocked by what SE is doing, and if we don't complain enough, we are just SE sheeps...
Guys, sorry, I'm coming from iPhone branch of Apple, and I do know now how we get f***ed simply to promote new models - by "deleting" old ones. You really think SE will keep its 2 year maintenance ? I'd love to think so, but it's very usual to prepare one or two coming updates to make you feel you're not left over, but once your angriness is away, they abandon. Remember some sites note EOL will probably be announced starting from march...
Remember also Android 2.1 is not the last release and with upcoming 3.0 (anyone can say it's compatible or not, another debate) our OS is going older and older with no hardware reason -- we're currently just missing things like Flash, App2SD, but it will become soon a major problem as more and more apps/functionnalities won't be compatible.
So the idea is to ask SE for sources as their "perfect 2.1" is a dead-end for our phones -- and we all know they can operate very fine with -at least- 2.3.
I'm maybe silly but I've spent three months for buying my x10i and I won't let SE do what Apple is doing...
Visspui said:
Realistically, SE doesn't really owe us anything, and I promise that they are not going to give you anything either.
Even if a bunch of you swore off SE phones, they would still be alright, and it would cost them more to give us all rebates than it would to just try for a new customer base.
Good luck with that though,
Also this thread is ridiculous. No one is getting anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't see the reason why they should do such thing, especially since they have done nothing wrong...
as you said, they owe us nothing
and true, this thread is ridiculous
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
think of it..
they build great hype for a product months before the launch by strong advertising (probably spending more on ads than R&D itself) , promising a revolutionary interface with ground breaking custom interfaces....X panels for X1 (remember?) and timescape/mediascape (biggest garbage) for X10 ..both over-ambitious
just so they can differentiate from other companies..
ya they have great product design.. which initially attracts impulse buyers...they build anticipation...so we cant wait to get our hands on their phone!
and then they finally launch the product which will NEVER have the latest updates because their entire focus was on marketing the product i.e bringing it to market before competition and capturing market share.
they never really focussed on industry shaking R&D like Apple..c'mon without Apple, touchscreen was a dead market.
and without Android...Apple had a monopoly.
This is revolution....not timescape or mediascape..which are my least favourite apps...battery sucking with extremely slow response rates.
then they ll keep launching small small updates over couple of months...more like over a year...adding little features..so we dont change brand loyalty....giving the wounded customers a faint vision of hope...
finally they release a small update and the entire community goes 'wow' with excitement...like a virgin getting his first blowjob.
by that time..the phone has suffered scratches, has started showing signs of wear..which means very low re-sale value.
and meanwhile announcement for newer model is made...slimmer, sexier with more bugs which will be fixed via update over the next upcoming year.
good strategy for a short-term profit making....but they are losing brand loyalty.
i am not gonna buy SE Xperia Arc...ya its the sexiest phone on the market.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
/rant
its like they keep us jumping over small small updates like a cat does to a string which the master will never let it catch.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
epic comment
well it's true and from your perspective which one is better?
i know getting a big income is the main focus of any company but hey customers loyalty also counts. it's something i hate from sony in general, they keep pushing new tech every year and let the customer to feel outdated
Epic thread.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Couldn't have said it better myself, spot on mate!
Swyped from my ZDZ Froyo X10i
bang on, while i am happy with my x10 as it was my first droid comming from a long **** list of wm devices, i am also not going to be sticking with se, already contemplating the droid 2 global, yes se makes sexy phones but, im looking for something a little more with my next device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Funny thread
so what do you think about HTC's strategy with Desire ( Desire/HD/Z )
Just because they released a better handset after a year of the previous handset's release it doesn't mean that they do not care about brand loyalty...
so what? you want them to stick with the X10 for two years while other competitors advance with technology????
believe it or not, many will buy the ARC, even more that who bought the X10...
Next time, go buy an HTC or Motorola
and by the way, Samsung is locking their bootloader so do not buy a Samsung android so you won't end up whining like many here about unlocking it, unless you like samsung
but despite all that, I would like to thank you for the effort made by you to explain what many of us are not aware of.. it's a good practice for your uni
good luck mate with your studies
Nocturnal310 said:
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
iead1 said:
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
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Click to collapse
Grammar and syntax of the English language is not the point of XDA in MHO...
Very well written, kudos to you Nocturnal310...
@Nocturnal310:
Of course you're right. But as someone said before, you could say this about any company producing technical stuff and you would be right as well. (I expect some very negative comments on what I'm about to say...). I understand your point, but I just don't think that SE is somehow different in their approach from any other company producing consumer goods (is that right? stuff which are bought in great numbers just to be replaced by newer models...you know, we have to watch out for our English, right iead1? ). Thats quite important because we just can't expect infinite support for our product, because sooner or later (the former is more probable) it will get replaced with brand new model with brand new stuff inside making it lot more attractive. The only thing we can complain about is, that the support may have last longer... thats true. But despite all of that, I'm still not changing the brand loyalty as I just dont know what else should I buy next time. I dont like Apple and their iStuff, also don't like HTCs because of how they look. Samsung is an option, but if I should choose between Samsung and SE just by looking at the phones, SE would definitely win (and with Samsung locking their bootloaders as well, I wouldn't help myself much by buying it). You may call me a hardcore fan of SE who doesn't think about what he's buying, but thats not me. I just think that X10 was an unfortunate mistake (which I personally still love!) of SE and I really hope they will learn from it for the reasons mentioned above.
Thats my opinion and I do not force anyone to share it, but I wanted to say it, because I just don't uderstand all that poeople saying how betrayed they feel by SE.
i think SE`s problem is that they don`t really know what they do,at least so far.
they use UIQ for a while then they leave it.
they use win mo,but after x1 and x2 they desided to go for android.
but now Android is very good platform and they should find their way.i hope so.
their main mistake is that they don`t care about customers and the weak points of their products.
I must add my mustard ...
There was a time long ago, Sony Ericsson created really nice phones with a solid build quality. My x10 is 3 weeks old and is making crazy noises when twisted a bit. The whole frame is not stiff enough.
If I saw it right on arc video presentations at youtube, the crappy timescape is now a widget and it is still choppy. This uggly blue is still there. Why blue? SE colors are Green and Orange. What a bunch of stupid designers ... I think w'll have a lot of alternatives out there with lesser crappy UI-Mods.
Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's remember: they're not ceasing support, they're launching a new model and planningto lock x10 customers in outdated Android. Motorola intended to do that too, but customers did such a big buzz that they changed their minds. The bull**** about low performance on Android 2.2 is already discarded, we can see that on all the unofficially built ROMs available at xda-forums. I risk to say that even Google has his part on this entire drama. Obviously, Sony Ericsson and their UXP loaded with much more processing hunger than x10 can support is the one we should blame, because we chose to buy SE, not Google devices (which are HTC, actually ). The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
I truly hope no one takes my comments personally, since I'm just expressing my opinion as a SE consumer. I still like them, but not how they use my money.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
robbyf66 said:
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say a lot. Saying and doing are not the same.
moacyrfilho said:
The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
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Click to collapse
I think they removed the mediascape app because it was so hard to new people to find the music player and photo gallery.
just think about it:
you have a new phone, and you would like to play some music, you first go to the music player but you can't find it because there is no music icon on the menu
Grab a samsung phone and try to play some music, the player is called "Music", the video player is "Videos" and the gallery is "Gallery"
robbyf66 said:
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are comparing with 2 companies with different calibers.
Apple - every designer/ad agency/design house/design school in this world purchase their 'godly' machines for work purposes. And these macs don't come cheap, mind you. With that amount of revenue, they can afford to create an iPhone, using their 'lagless' (yeah, right) macintosh reputations to breed a colony of iZombies to support their cause.
With the iZombies having the need to own a iAmagodlyproduct, with such supporters pumping money into their pockets, they can afford to offset any losses by being nice to
Update old iPhones even if new models are out, cos they know iZombies are already impressed with them playing the nice card and that they are confident that with their good reputation and a better new phone out, A majority of iZombies who have too much money to spare will still buy it. They are just giving an aww-I understand-you-can't-afford-a-new-phone-yet-so-I-will-update-you-periodically-so-that-you-will-come-back-to-me-when-you-have-money message to the poorer parties.
Now for Sony Ericsson (or just insert any other brand names). Let me ask you. Though they are an established brand, but let me ask you, how many people will own 1 of those expensive TVs or VAIOS? Comparing with Apple, no competition.
They don't have that much extra revenue to play nice. They can only strategize and try to earn as such as possible before their products become obsolete.
It's just like people like Donald Trump, who has so much money to play with, he can just give away to some random person on the street if he wants to. But if you try doing up a business yourself, would you give away your money to charity organizations, knowing that you cannot afford to spend the money that way? Most probably not. Unless you don't mind closing down your business due to losses.
All these threads are getting sooooooo repetitive!!! There should be one big sticky for anyone who wants to ***** and complain in any way shape and form about SE. That way this form isn't flooded with every thread turning into a SE bashing thread. It really is getting tiring logging on to see what's new and the first 50 threads are people *****in about SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Lonelee - agree with much of what you say.. but it is also true that there are many many many people who go back time and time again to buy the next apple product BECAUSE they know that Apple will not leave the OS lagging behind on the old device when a new one comes out.. it's spectacularly good brand loyalty. SE (and many other) are taking a very short term view, and a missing a great opportunity to get us all on the hook for the next product..
In the UK for example, many phones bought on contract are free with a 2 yr contract tie in.. so if I know that they will look after me for 2 years, then I'll go back for more.. my contract's not due until Feb 2012.. so I'm eagerly awaiting to see their behaviour over the next 12 months!
well I m back on XDA after exiting from blackberry platform...blackberry provided me a stable messaging device for a while but as needs changed, it was very poor for browsing and getting work with attachments done.
i was at a party few weeks ago and my friend took out his Xperia Z claiming this is the best camera phone.
to his disappointment, it was the darkest blurriest pic i have seen whereas my lumia 920 took a pic with DSLR-like clarity and image characteristics.
i am not sure how much sony has improved but seems like they are still a market follower and using marketing dollars to brag about their phones that do not perform as advertised.
after having wasted my student savings on 2 of their phones, I regret and wish I had bought a better phone for my first android experience.
product lifecycle
Hi,
I am not sure if I should blame any company for moving to newer (and maybe better) products. In the android phone market we have the nearly unique situation to be able to get our hands and minds at the software which is driving the product, at least partly.
This is quite different from cars or coffeemakers.
What I would like to from Sony is that when they decide to abandon a product (eg X10), they open up the sources of drivers etc, so that interested people can maintain their products for themselves.
I can understand that they wont open up the sources for current products.
A.