Related
By way of encouraging discussion -- The HTC X7500/7501 is the closest current HTC product to the emerging class of computers being dubbed UMPC (ultra-mobile PC) that seems to be catching fire. Of course the appeal of the UMPC is its reliance on currently popular PC OS -- WinXP or Vista, as well as its small size (most have screen sizes between 4.5 and 8 in). The Athena's 5 in VGA screen, relatively powerful cpu, 8GB HDD, and form factor with the easy-to-use keyboard makes it very close IMHO to the appealing features of the UMPC's, although it's not officially classified as such because it uses the WinMobile OS rather than XP or Vista. I'm personally torn between my x7500 (with WM6) and one of these UMPC -- have tried the Sony Vaio UX390N but sold it because I found its limitations (unreadable screen, reliance on mouse vs. touchscreen, slow processing with vista) too great. But there are a number of newer UMPC versions coming out that seem worth trying (but who can afford them?).... the OQO Model 02 is only slightly larger than the Athena but offers Vista (at twice the Athena price).... the Raon Everun due out shortly is also only slightly larger than the Athena but not as powerful as the OQO but seems like a "hot" seller.
As a longtime proponent of pocketpc/pdaphones and similar pocketable devices, I'm intrigued -- what thoughts do others in this forum have regarding the emerging UMPC compared to our Athena/Advantage devices?
brucewilsonpa said:
By way of encouraging discussion -- The HTC X7500/7501 is the closest current HTC product to the emerging class of computers being dubbed UMPC (ultra-mobile PC) that seems to be catching fire. Of course the appeal of the UMPC is its reliance on currently popular PC OS -- WinXP or Vista, as well as its small size (most have screen sizes between 4.5 and 8 in). The Athena's 5 in VGA screen, relatively powerful cpu, 8GB HDD, and form factor with the easy-to-use keyboard makes it very close IMHO to the appealing features of the UMPC's, although it's not officially classified as such because it uses the WinMobile OS rather than XP or Vista. I'm personally torn between my x7500 (with WM6) and one of these UMPC -- have tried the Sony Vaio UX390N but sold it because I found its limitations (unreadable screen, reliance on mouse vs. touchscreen, slow processing with vista) too great. But there are a number of newer UMPC versions coming out that seem worth trying (but who can afford them?).... the OQO Model 02 is only slightly larger than the Athena but offers Vista (at twice the Athena price).... the Raon Everun due out shortly is also only slightly larger than the Athena but not as powerful as the OQO but seems like a "hot" seller.
As a longtime proponent of pocketpc/pdaphones and similar pocketable devices, I'm intrigued -- what thoughts do others in this forum have regarding the emerging UMPC compared to our Athena/Advantage devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery life is what separates the men (athena) from the boys (umpc). Even the ulv editions don't have that much staying power I have tried the Sony umpc TZ...., and now have the Stylistic ST5112 (not real umpc cos of larger screen) which claims 10hrs battery life, but not really getting that much.
personally i like zippy performance...
and the thing with vista is... with a 1.2ghz chip as these current umpcs are offerning these days...
i dont feel its well worth it for laggy performance...
and it really depends on what your use for the said device is.. ?
is it going to be primarily a workhorse type eqiupment ?
or is it going to be a simple phone that is powerful ?
i prefer to go for something like an athena... for quick work on the go...
but if im going to be doing any REAL work that requires a computer as in web design / various other apps ... i dont see myself successfully utilizing a umpc...
i prefer the large displays at home for webdesign and coding etc.
and there are many of small notebooks you can buy these days for a good price ... in the range of something like 10" notebooks
this is no bigger than a 8.5 x 11 notebook great for note takign etc.
i was thinking of getting one for college work...
boinger66 said:
personally i like zippy performance...
and it really depends on what your use for the said device is.. ?
is it going to be primarily a workhorse type eqiupment ?
or is it going to be a simple phone that is powerful ? ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is the key point -- and one which is acknowledged by some of those doing reviews of UMPC -- right now the UMPC's available, while pretty cool in lots of ways, still have a lot of limitations so they can't even match what our WinMobile devices can do. OTOH.... I keep asking myself if I really use all that power of my "primary" computer (core2duo laptop with lots of cpu power, ram and large HDD)..... maybe my challenge is to decide just what I really need??????
I am curious. Has anyone used the Advantage to drive a PPT presentation on a projector? How limited is P-PPT?
That would really drive my behaviour.
jab said:
I am curious. Has anyone used the Advantage to drive a PPT presentation on a projector? How limited is P-PPT?
That would really drive my behaviour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use PocketSlides from Conduits. http://www.conduits.com/products/slides/
While you do have to go through a "convert" step, I have found that it faithfully reproduces all features and layout, including most animations. Also allows editing on PPC, which for me is the downside to PocketPPT and why I have never given it a try.
I have projected presentations and videos with no problems using the VGA cable. (Other than troubles finding a video player that handles MPEG-2, which 90% of my stuff is encoded in.)
wgary said:
I use PocketSlides from Conduits. http://www.conduits.com/products/slides/
While you do have to go through a "convert" step, I have found that it faithfully reproduces all features and layout, including most animations. Also allows editing on PPC, which for me is the downside to PocketPPT and why I have never given it a try.
I have projected presentations and videos with no problems using the VGA cable. (Other than troubles finding a video player that handles MPEG-2, which 90% of my stuff is encoded in.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have you tried TCPMP ?
I personally think it boils down to cpu, I would love to have the ameo running vista, xp, but it would take ages to do anything. I was looking at umpc's today, "was really looking for a bluetooth mouse, no joy as usuall, thanks pcworld." and thinking, nice, but the cpu isnt that much better than my ameo, plus running vista, which is cpu hungry, I just think no, I would like one, but since I got my ameo I don't turn on my pc as much, unless im video converting or doing somthing, which a umpc would be to slow. dual core and a 64 bit operating system, I like speed.
with wm6, or 5, I can do pretty much what I need to do. and lets face it I can remote desk top if I really wanted to do somthing else while I was killing time at work.
its a nice idea, but I think after contiplating one for this lenght of time, I think WM6 is enough for what your average Joe does with it. Be it presentations, excell in my case or sending emails.
Anyway, thats my drunken opinion, and im off to bed.
boinger66 said:
have you tried TCPMP ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
honestly, I tried it once a while back and it really gummed things up. I do use CorePlayer, but no mpeg-2 support yet. guess I need to give tcpmp another go...
wgary said:
honestly, I tried it once a while back and it really gummed things up. I do use CorePlayer, but no mpeg-2 support yet. guess I need to give tcpmp another go...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
download the tcpmp file that mackaby posted it has all the codecs in it
boinger66 said:
download the tcpmp file that mackaby posted it has all the codecs in it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it have WMA support? I could not play a film with that format on tcpmp
victoradjei said:
Does it have WMA support? I could not play a film with that format on tcpmp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i didnt know there were wma films...
i thought it was windows media audio .. implying audio only ?
boinger66 said:
i didnt know there were wma films...
i thought it was windows media audio .. implying audio only ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WMV, sorry. My question still hold
victoradjei said:
WMV, sorry. My question still hold
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it has support, but is very poor. Corecodec are aware of this and will improve on the new Coreplayer over time, but for now, the best solution for WMV is to stick to WMP.
Personally, I detest playing vids in WMV.
jab said:
I am curious. Has anyone used the Advantage to drive a PPT presentation on a projector? How limited is P-PPT?
That would really drive my behaviour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works fine, I have just loaded a 20MB PPS file to the Hard Drive in the Ameo and it runs great via the 4in1 output cable to the projector, no video embeded, just text and photos, not quite as fast as the laptop but it certainly works well - the time lag is only apparant on certain slides with a number of pictures embeded in them - Mike
so talk about getting off topic...
but anyways to get back on...
i am actually considering the htc shift... but it will really depend on its price point... as i find it would be good for me to use at school... ofcourse the athena would still be my main device
Hi to All,
since we are all waiting for our Touch HD rolleyes - rolling our fingers without having ever seen a real one - i was wondering about a true comparison with the Trinity. We all know that the touch HD is obviously the successor of the Trinity...but wait a second eek: why not viceversa?
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=533&id2=1469
the differences cool:
the trinity is 3.6 grams LIGHTER than the Blackstone
the trinity battery has a 11% more capacity than the...
the trinity has an IrDa port while the Blackstone...
the trinity has a real D-pad while the...
the trinity has 10 real buttons while...
the trinity has EVEN a scrollwheel!
...do you agree D)? of course, this is a temporary comparison up to the infamous delivery date, when i will probably change my mind...but my Trinity will forever rest in peace nearby my glorious Wizard!
More differences:
HD screen and resolution: 3.8 " (97 millimetres)
Display Resolution: 480 x 800
Trinty screen and res: 2.8 " (72 millimetres)
Display Resolution: 240 x 320
HD Processor: 32 bit Qualcomm MSM7201A
CPU Clock: 528 MHz
Trinty Processor: 32 bit Samsung SC32442
CPU Clock: 400 MHz
...apart from jokes...
...and you forgot another important improvement: 288 Mb of RAM are a HUGE improvement with respect to the 64K (48K usable) of the trinity...i hope that this memory is not all eaten up by the video ram....
LOL
Maybe that is going to happen mate, the more memory devices have, the more memory new programs demand, that is called consumism...
I always thought that the Diamond was the spiritual successor to the Trinity:
next in line using the product name: P3600 -> P3700
same form factor, but lighter and thinner
upgraded camera
upgraded screen
GPS as well
etc
Heh, with the advances in finger friendly apps and FTouchFloSL etc. all my hardware buttons have become redundant except the on/off and hang up buttons
Bring on a larger screen!!
At the first price drop it's mine
i would say trinity > elf (touch) > polaris (touch cruise) > diamond > touch hd
pzucchel said:
...and you forgot another important improvement: 288 Mb of RAM are a HUGE improvement with respect to the 64K (48K usable) of the trinity...i hope that this memory is not all eaten up by the video ram....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am tempted by the Touch HD, but it still lacks the UMTS coverage for international travel.
Trinity has triband UMTS
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850, UMTS1900, UMTS2100
Touch HD is only dual band
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS900, UMTS2100
Beyond the UMTS issue, I use my Trinity to read/surf with the D'Pad. It is handy when in bed or just relaxing in the park. I don't like the idea of using 2 hands all the time. The computing power and RAM of the HD is of course superior. Why not make thinner lighter Trinity with more horsepower, I'd buy that!
On a Diamond with SmartTouch I really do all the reading and browsing with a single finger, without using the d-pad.
TouchHD any day
I threw my trinity at the wall today (but thanks to its hard perspex shell. it lived without so much as a scratch). It is so utterly slow in everything it does and always bumping itself into full silent mode without telling me. by the time I dish it out of my pocket I've missed 12 important calls - rendering my PHONE (it's main purpose) about as useful as facial hair on a woman.
So lets see.... HTC Touch HD....
* more than 10x free RAM...
* more than 4x the number of pixels and a 84% increase in screen real estate (if you did your maths properly. it's NOT a 36% increase)...
* its thinner than an iphone yet does a billion times more things thanks to the xda-dev community...
* and its got a way faster cpu!
It's more than twice the phone that the Trinity will ever be, in any respect!
.. seriously man.. if I was GOD.. and I'm being asked to improve on the Touch HD?.. only thing I can think of is jamming a dual core Intel U7700 into that thing *drooool*....Until technology can afford to do that, this phone is no less than perfect for me. I'm buying it. Period.
nin2thevoid said:
On a Diamond with SmartTouch I really do all the reading and browsing with a single finger, without using the d-pad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you holding the phone in one hand and using a single finger?
the perfect phone is here!!!
...decided: I'll order the touch HD, but I will keep my trinity!
advantages: 6x more pixels, 3 times more screen surface, many buttons, memory, twice the battery lifetime, twice the cpu power, good xda roms available right now, umts coverage, fault tolerant, swappable microsd card...even double gps coverage if i get lost in the desert!
...this is the telephone of my dreams, i am going to order the other accessory (the HD) since i already have the trinity!!!
Matterhorn said:
Are you holding the phone in one hand and using a single finger?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah, but you use the FINGER? i always used my TOE...
pzucchel said:
ah, but you use the FINGER? i always used my TOE...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha Ha, "monkey see monkey do"
I have to say that this HD has my attention. The $1,000 price tag is a bit much to swallow when my trinity still works fine. Maybe Swisscom will have it available on a contract.
Cheers,
price
I ordered it for 909 CHF from www.digitec.ch. It is very good distributor, i already built my PC buying components from them, they are #1 in switzerland (check for example www.toppreise.ch). It is supposed to arrive first week of november.
pzucchel said:
I ordered it for 909 CHF from www.digitec.ch. It is very good distributor, i already built my PC buying components from them, they are #1 in switzerland (check for example www.toppreise.ch). It is supposed to arrive first week of november.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a very tempting price when you compare it to a Touch Pro which costs 20 francs more than the HD.
pzucchel: I sent you a PM.
lonertic said:
I threw my trinity at the wall today (but thanks to its hard perspex shell. it lived without so much as a scratch). It is so utterly slow in everything it does and always bumping itself into full silent mode without telling me. by the time I dish it out of my pocket I've missed 12 important calls - rendering my PHONE (it's main purpose) about as useful as facial hair on a woman.
So lets see.... HTC Touch HD....
* more than 10x free RAM...
* more than 4x the number of pixels and a 84% increase in screen real estate (if you did your maths properly. it's NOT a 36% increase)...
* its thinner than an iphone yet does a billion times more things thanks to the xda-dev community...
* and its got a way faster cpu!
It's more than twice the phone that the Trinity will ever be, in any respect!
.. seriously man.. if I was GOD.. and I'm being asked to improve on the Touch HD?.. only thing I can think of is jamming a dual core Intel U7700 into that thing *drooool*....Until technology can afford to do that, this phone is no less than perfect for me. I'm buying it. Period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
uhm, we are all so happy with this DREAM HTC that....i remember i was also very happy with my DREAM Trinity (before release!)...
By the way, how do we know it is so fast? it cannot be faster than the touch pro - which has the same ram and the same processor but less pixels...
pzucchel said:
...decided: I'll order the touch HD, but I will keep my trinity!
advantages: 6x more pixels, 3 times more screen surface, many buttons, memory, twice the battery lifetime, twice the cpu power, good xda roms available right now, umts coverage, fault tolerant, swappable microsd card...even double gps coverage if i get lost in the desert!
...this is the telephone of my dreams, i am going to order the other accessory (the HD) since i already have the trinity!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congrats for your desicion! and welcome to the: HD waiting to recieve club!
I will also keep my Uni, so many years serving me so great!
One thing that I'm wondering about with the Touch HD is the presence and usability of graphics acceleration. The Trinity has an ATI graphics chip inside and although in the beginning there weren't many apps that could tap into it, the new CorePlayer takes advantage of it. In fact video playback is quite good now with the acceleration working. YouTube playing through the CorePlayer is PERFECT on the Trinity with acceleration activated.
I've read that the Diamond and the TouchPro suffer from terrible video playback performance. I'm wondering if the Touch HD will also be handicapped when it comes to video playback. That would be a pity and a waste of that big beautiful screen.
Also...I have to brag that my Slingbox is streaming video to my Trinity over wifi hotspots with great resolution and fluidity and I wouldn't want to give that up.
Does anyone know how the graphics acceleration is performing on the HD?
Matterhorn said:
One thing that I'm wondering about with the Touch HD is the presence and usability of graphics acceleration. The Trinity has an ATI graphics chip inside and although in the beginning there weren't many apps that could tap into it, the new CorePlayer takes advantage of it. In fact video playback is quite good now with the acceleration working. YouTube playing through the CorePlayer is PERFECT on the Trinity with acceleration activated.
I've read that the Diamond and the TouchPro suffer from terrible video playback performance. I'm wondering if the Touch HD will also be handicapped when it comes to video playback. That would be a pity and a waste of that big beautiful screen.
Also...I have to brag that my Slingbox is streaming video to my Trinity over wifi hotspots with great resolution and fluidity and I wouldn't want to give that up.
Does anyone know how the graphics acceleration is performing on the HD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I can see in the numerous videos about HD, graphics acelaration looks pretty cool in performance!
Just google HD and see the videos
Hi!
First of all, I buy 2 days ago a Touch HD (im getting this week), but all the more I read, my thinks are that HD is not a great device finally.
Pros
- Big screen
Cons
- GPS Lag (ultra important)
- Video doesnt play smooth (80 90%) on coreplayer and have lag
- Camera lag and bad quality photos.
- No [email protected] videos
- Lot of devices with dead pixels
So, why buy this device instead staying on a Diamond/pro or buying a X1? If I stay, I only lose a bigger screen that not cost 600€ for me (usb from the diamond have adapters to 3.5 minijack), and if you buy a X1, only lose the big screen but wins all of the cons of HTC devices plus more ram and better battery.
So, what are your reason to buy the Touch HD? Im thinking on cancel my order on monday.
yes, cancel your order and buy an iphone , this solve all probs about camera , recording , gps lag etcetc
kersh said:
Hi!
First of all, I buy 2 days ago a Touch HD (im getting this week), but all the more I read, my thinks are that HD is not a great device finally.
Pros
- Big screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt this ... because:
I am not sure that this big screen is effective enough. For watching movie and video, yes it is. However, for browsing the internet, without a doubt, you can see more content compare to 2.8" screen ... but is it directly readable without zooming? I dont think so ... Still nice though.
kersh said:
Cons
- GPS Lag (ultra important)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think so, the first 2 owners from The Netherlands confirmed that the GPS Lag does not exist in this device.
But, again, no more report from other owner ...
kersh said:
- Video doesnt play smooth (80 90%) on coreplayer and have lag
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I saw couple of examples from YouTube, I think it plays quite well. I dont see lag nor delay.
Oh yeah, it does not play 720p nor 1080p
kersh said:
- Camera lag and bad quality photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree, I think the camera still sux ... or worse (more shutter-lag because of the 5 MP?)
kersh said:
- No [email protected] videos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which Windows Mobile phone can do that?
For sure, iPhone cant do that.
kersh said:
- Lot of devices with dead pixels
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is bad ... probably we need to start counting how many percent have dead pixel. Poll anyone?
kersh said:
So, why buy this device instead staying on a Diamond/pro or buying a X1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touch Diamond + Pro ---> GPS Lag
X1 ---> Slow performance???
kersh said:
If I stay, I only lose a bigger screen that not cost 600€ for me (usb from the diamond have adapters to 3.5 minijack), and if you buy a X1, only lose the big screen but wins all of the cons of HTC devices plus more ram and better battery.
So, what are your reason to buy the Touch HD? Im thinking on cancel my order on monday.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reason? I dont know ... probably I will stick with my Kaiser ... and wait the next 3.8" WinMo ...
Or probably wait WinMo 6.5? Probably this can add some more functionalities.
Well right now i want a WinMo device and i want it with a 3.5mm audio jack, so that leaves me with two options:
X1 and Touch HD
Since X1 doesnt have an acclerometer (which WinMo7 is going to use heavily), has a recessed screen and TouchFlo doesnt play nice with it yet and since i can't use the keyboard fully in my language, i'd rather go with Touch HD's bigger screen.
GPS and camera aren't so crucial for me (for 3 years on my old nokia, i've used the camera ~10 times, haven't had a GPS and don't imagine i'll need it much (though its nice to have)).
Devices with dead pixels are covered by warranty, so that shouldnt be a problem.
And the only other argument you have is video doesnt play smooth, which isnt that good, since i plan on using it a lot, but when i asked here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443245 the guy says that non-AC3 movies from the net play ok and on one review, the reviewer was playing an ep of House on it and it looked OK to me, so i guess it'll do for me.
I am not sure that this big screen is effective enough. For watching movie and video, yes it is. However, for browsing the internet, without a doubt, you can see more content compare to 2.8" screen ... but is it directly readable without zooming? I dont think so ... Still nice though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it is. Played for 30 mins with one at a shop the other day and zoomed out everything was perfectly readable for me (though i'm young and don't use glasses, don't know about old folks (a lady at the Xperia forum returned it for that very reason)) the only thing that bugged me is that you can't click links directly from a zoomed out standpoint, first you have to zoom in, but that's Opera's fault, not Touch HD's. The guys at Opera should fix it
Which Windows Mobile phone can do that?
For sure, iPhone cant do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
X1 can and it haa pretty much the same specs as Touch HD, except for the camera, maybe that's the problem.
Also Nokia N95
iPhone might as well not have a camera
its a nice phone but not the killer device it was hyped up to be, but i hope it will improve god willing when the developers have a go at it.
...Frankly speaking, you should have waited if you had been disappointed by the HTC devices in general. If you don't like to fiddle with your telephone, suffer for improvements, contribute to it and refresh your OS every week - then an HTC is probably not the better choice, many other companies make good telephones and similar sexy toys. The touch HD is, in my opinion, the most innovative personal platform which has appeared in the last years - it just misses Linux which will arrive soon...
i think that HTC telephones are a technology platform to have fun, like PCs 20 years ago.
If you were expecting an "out of the box" apple performances and finished ergonomics there is no need of investigating: i would suggest to cancel your order and buy an I***** (...oops, i cannot even write it....maybe an allergy? )
BTW, i have a touch HD already and i have been driving at least two hours with it and i continously hear about the GPS lag: WHICH GPS lag? If it is a 20 m lag, at which speed you drive?
Since there is a lot of speculation, shouldn't everybody clarify if they heard/read about a problem from internet, or they had/saw the problem themselves?
pzucchel said:
BTW, i have a touch HD already and i have been driving at least two hours with it and i continously hear about the GPS lag: WHICH GPS lag? If it is a 20 m lag, at which speed you drive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What speeds do you drive at?
For the ones that say that I need and i****, I am not gonna buy and apple device in my life, but is frustrating seeing the same errors on every new device of HTC.
playbacks issues, gps lag, bad sound quality, etc etc
And the touch hd who can be the perfect model if they fix this, now is the same with a bigger screen, thats the problem, they sell the same again and again.
And the gps lag is not only 20 metters it is maybe more than 40 50 in some situations and the gps lag of the diamond have made me to skip a lot of detours and streets, it is a BIG issue.
gogol said:
I dont think so, the first 2 owners from The Netherlands confirmed that the GPS Lag does not exist in this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Others confirming that big gps lag exists, reviews included.
gogol said:
I saw couple of examples from YouTube, I think it plays quite well. I dont see lag nor delay.
Oh yeah, it does not play 720p nor 1080p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In youtube you cant see much, you need to use coreplayer benchmark or so and that have about 80%, that it is 20fps instead 25 on videos, so not smooth video playing
gogol said:
Which Windows Mobile phone can do that?
For sure, iPhone cant do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
X1 can do and really great
gogol said:
Touch Diamond + Pro ---> GPS Lag
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, same **** that hd touch, very important issue on latest htc's
gogol said:
X1 ---> Slow performance???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x1 slow performance? It have better performance, more ram, no video issues.
compared with the touch pro, the touch hd is a big improvment. Battery life seems increadable - with the same use the touvch pro would have died hours ago and i still have 50 % left!1 Gps sensitivity is as good as my old kaiser - the touch pro could never get a lock indoors.
Not sure what htc have done, but its all good.
Coreplayer says 80% so the video playback is bad?
...
lol
Ok.
TonyPlayer says 100.5%.
All these reports of crappy video playback are starting to worry me, that's one of the main reasons why i'm buying it...
Why do you use CorePlayer when WM6.1 comes with Windows Media Player ?
kersh said:
For the ones that say that I need and i****, I am not gonna buy and apple device in my life, but is frustrating seeing the same errors on every new device of HTC.
playbacks issues, gps lag, bad sound quality, etc etc
And the touch hd who can be the perfect model if they fix this, now is the same with a bigger screen, thats the problem, they sell the same again and again.
And the gps lag is not only 20 metters it is maybe more than 40 50 in some situations and the gps lag of the diamond have made me to skip a lot of detours and streets, it is a BIG issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dear Kersh,
i don't understand what is real and what is speculation: which sound quality? which lag? which playback issues? which etc.etc.?
I have been driving with it on highways, city and walking my dog. I couldn't see any lag. If the diamond had a lag (i don't know) you should not extrapolate that the touch HD behaves in the same way. Please let me know of a conclusive and quantitative test you'd like to see and I'll try it out.
I have one and i am very happy. At the same time, software improvements on such a machine can make it improve even further and extend the satisfaction of owners for years. In my opinion, this device offers the best performances which are available on the market today.
My old trinity improved a lot with time - thanks to the people here trying hard to improve these devices!
By the way, I don't believe that Iphones are bad at all - simply they are like Apple PC: good for my mother and my wife - but i want to be at the frontline and contribute to it.
All the Best,
Let's make it clear iGO v8.3.1.57021 corrects the lag ! and many more improvments
pzucchel said:
Dear Kersh,
i don't understand what is real and what is speculation: which sound quality? which lag? which playback issues? which etc.etc.?
I have been driving with it on highways, city and walking my dog. I couldn't see any lag. If the diamond had a lag (i don't know) you should not extrapolate that the touch HD behaves in the same way. Please let me know of a conclusive and quantitative test you'd like to see and I'll try it out.
I have one and i am very happy. At the same time, software improvements on such a machine can make it improve even further and extend the satisfaction of owners for years. In my opinion, this device offers the best performances which are available on the market today.
My old trinity improved a lot with time - thanks to the people here trying hard to improve these devices!
By the way, I don't believe that Iphones are bad at all - simply they are like Apple PC: good for my mother and my wife - but i want to be at the frontline and contribute to it.
All the Best,
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Dear pzucchel,
as u mentioned in the second paragraph,would u be kind enough to do some simple test for the gps lag issue.can u drive at a speed of 80 to 100 km/h,when you physically reach a junction or an interchange ,where is the current location(i.e car icon or triangle) of your device showing? if its exactly parallel to the junction or interchange,than there is no lag..the difference between your physical location and your device location is the actual lag.Another simple test is when your car has physically turn into a junction,how long would the device take to show you are now driving on a new road and direction.and if you could be kind enough to specify what navigation program you used for the test..that will be wonderful.
Thanks in advance for your help
I've been looking forward to the touch hd for a bit now, and I still plan to get it. If there is anything i have learnt from these forums is how a lot of problems is software based.
Anyway, one main reason i'm getting it is that chance to have android on it when it gets ported on.
kersh said:
Others confirming that big gps lag exists, reviews included.
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It depends on the software you use.
I have tried Garmin XT and iGO 8.3.1 on my HTC Trinity.
The Garmin was always a little bit behind, where iGO was always on spot!
And guess what:
I have tried both on my Touch HD, and have exactly the same findings!
I too like Android OS on the cell phone. I have been trying to tolerate the Sammy i760 I am now using, but the HD and the Omnia 16gb both look good. I also am thinking of the Invidia Tegra 600 series as it WILL play at 30fps. Would this be the "one" to wait for? or is it in something and I don't know due to all the Dr's I have to see and travel too? Thanks, JASTECH
NVIDIA Tegra 650 also features:
• All-day media processing, for 130 hours audio, 30 hours HD video playback
• HD image processing for advanced digital still camera and HD camcorder functions
• Optimized hardware support for Web 2.0 applications for a true desktop-class internet
experience
• Display support for 1080p HDMI, WSXGA+ LCD and CRT, and NTSC/PAL TV-Out
• Direct support for WiFi, disk drives, keyboard, mouse, and other peripherals
Tegra 650
* Processor and Memory Subsystem
o ARM11 MPCore @ 800 MHz
o 16/32-bit LP-DDR
o NAND Flash support
* HD AVP (High Definition Audio Video Processor)
o 1080p H.264 decode
o 720p H.264 encode
o Supports multi-standard audio formats, including AAC, AMR, WMA, and MP3
o JPEG encode and decode acceleration
* ULP GeForce
o OpenGL ES 2.0
o Programmable pixel shader
o Programmable vertex and lighting
o Advanced 3D/2D graphics
* Imaging
o Up to 12 megapixel camera sensor support
o Integrated ISP
o Advanced imaging features
* Display Subsystem
o True dual-display support
o Maximum display resolutions supported:
+ 1080p (1920x1080) HDMI 1.3
+ WSXGA+ (1680x1050) LCD
+ SXGA (1280x1024) CRT
+ NTSC/PAL TV output
i sure hope these get fixed in the coming months by our devs and cooks
i just got a chance to play with an old ATOM EXEC (64mb,qvga,520mhz.no 3g...etc). i was amazed on how much faster and snappier the device. i know that the screen has one fifth the pixels, but not everything is depending on graphics. here are some things i noticed ive grouped them into 5 differnt "benchmark classes
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
2-opening the windows directory takes about 1.5 seconds vs 4-5 seconds on my itje's 3.5rc1(one of the fastest roms i have tested. cold booting takes about half the time but thats to be expected due to the smaller windows folder.
3-opening demo PocketArtist is 6 seconds vs 8 on x1.
4-youtube videos using the application @normal quality setting does not lag at all. on my x1 it does sometimes when it is viewing while its finishing the download over wifi. m2d was not as good looking as tf3d but its so much smoother
5-navigating various parts of the OS (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) was just noticeably snappier on the EXEC. switching to landscape was faster on the X1 though
while the experience of the x1 is clearly better due to the screen,resolution,other phone features and all, i just cant but feel extremely disappointed with how things currently are especially the first observation.
I'm really interested in our cooks opinion on how performance may end up being improved in a major way in the coming few months in any of the above situations. I'm obviously interested in the first point as its very easy to notice compared to the other points. can we expect something worthwhile in terms of performance in wm6.5
btw i also tested a cooked dutty v4 htc diamond and i dont think the diamond was much better than the x1 in the performance.
I don't know if your x1 is customised or what, but so far my take is the X1 is the fastest winmo phones I ever own in the last few years, considering those I have owned include both smartphone and professional, wm5 and wm6 (touch pro, samsung i780, omnia, treo 500v, moto q9h, etc)
that reply was more fanboish than i would like it to be . i think the X1 (despite some problems) is the best htc phone made. but current generation QC-based phones (x1,tpro,hd and diamond) seem to be suffering from a performance problem and im not sure whats at blame.
are you noticing better performance than me?????? im using itje 3.5rc1
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
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na....im totalli with you that ATOM EXEC is way faster than X1. no doubt. my frnd got an atom. but u hav 2 consider this
1. x1 resoution is 5times more as you said. thats like going from 800x600 resolution to 1920x1250. dats a HUGE jump and just imagine if just a ram and cpu upgrade is enogh to handle that kind of load.
2. also, i noticed that you r running tf3d. now installing that copies bout 1400 files into your windows folder. dat will take time.
3 .i don agree with apps running faster. youtube or PocketArtist, both run lot faster on x1.
4. navigation (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) is faster because, there are more things installed in you x1 than in your atom. also dont forget the fact that atom runs on lower resolution. a QVGA app that takes 200KB of RAM might take upto 2MB of ram when converted to WVGA.
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
THE GRIZZ said:
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
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well first thing as mention your running TF3d and that take up alot of the speed on your x1 i did reinstall of my phone to the newest orginal rom from se without any kind of tf3d and gotta say my phone was twice as fast when it had tf3d on it..also most of todays apps are not optimized for the newest phones out on the marked second try some real test with some games (eks Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 - Call of Duty 2 -) (convert some mp3s or videos on the phone) Test with some emulators like fpsece - pocketsnes - picodrive then you will hopefully see what your x1 is good for
i noticed when i have lot of apps open ..the phone becomes slow..and simple functions such as opening Menu's takes more than 1 second.
so when this happens.,..i use the 'FreeRam' of SKTools...and clear up everything.
then it becomes fast as before.
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
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One of the major problems here is windows mobile. It's just a mess.
Another is the resolution. Even on 2d, it makes a hell lot of difference. There's like ... 500% more pixels, with only 50% more performance.
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
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If you did look around in XDA, you should know that Qualcomm's CPU is well known for it poor performance (especially for 2D/3D). X1/HD is already the best you can get compare to Kaiser but still far left behind PDA w/ Intel Xscale CPU. See for yourself for Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYimU-VHM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6JyfmuPU&feature=related
Since it's bascially a hardware issue, there is not much we can do on it performance side. But X1 still my best one I can get base on it's overall features (3.5mm audio, USB 2.0, WVGA, UTMS w/ US's 850/1900), build quality, form factor, and of course it's look.
iPhone? It does have PowerVR chipset for graphic acceleration. And it's simply a joke for this date if I have to give up multi-tasking (for all 3rd party apps) for it's smooth and cool factor. My X1 is a workhorse and I want it to run IGo8 w/ Coreplayer player over A2DP/AVRCP concurrently.
Resolution does indeed play a big role. When I launch a program that needs WGAFIXv3 running, i notice how the framerate is practically doubled....
Hopefully Windows Mobile 6.5 will do justice just as Windows 7 is doing TREMENDOUS justice in terms of speed/performance. I finally appreciate the direction Microsoft is taking. It seems that ever since the introduction of Windows Media Player 7 (all versions up to 6 loaded in a SNAP and then 7 and up started taking forever to open unless you upgrade to the latest/fastest PC), back in the day, Microsoft's norm was to build more and more bulkier mega-code-loading software and this rubbed off on the mobile side of things too. Even SQL Server Express 2005 takes sooooooo long to load on PC's. Everything of theirs needed soooo much disk access to open up until Windows 7 came along.
So yeah I'm hoping a slimlined approach on the mobile platform will redeem the Windows Mobile brand
Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYi...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6J...eature=related
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these things in the video are very CPU intensive stuff. the stuff im complaining about is far simpler stuff
i am talking about simple none 2d graphics intensive image scrolling and simple dialog boxes movements. surly this stuff is not that hard to handle. decoding mpeg4 video at full screen is surly FAAAAAR more work and yet the x1 does an OK job hadling it. choking at something like displaying dialog boxes, schrolling screen full of text, handling menu selections...etc fingermenu,ucweb, miniflow, album, s2v are hardly graphics intensive stuff
question: is anyone noticing much better results then mine on a lite or even naked ROM
anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
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I have replied to your post on the Turbo X1 thread, there are some answers, but maybe not the magic bullet you and I have been both looking for.
after messing around to get speedbooster to work. i managed assign higher priority to some of the apps that are suffering. its giving some worthwhile enhancements nothing major though.
im begening to think that the only way we can get get improved performance and iphone-like "experiance" is for all the software need to be re-written to use the graphics hardware of the QC chipset. that does not look very likely even on future software since the majority of the avalable phones dont have it. writing software for wm requires it to be written for the lowest common denomiator hardware.
software for LCD hardware will continue to make WM software a bit ugly for a very long time indeed
I am quite mystified by threads such as these but I put it down to two things... 1, I am not such an intense nor knowledgable user as the OP of the thread and 2, I dont use my phone in the same way or do not expect it to be used as I would my laptop or have the same level of software as the OP of the thread...
TBH I have been amazed by the capability of this phone and am pleasantly surprised time and again by its speed, functionality and performance... most of my programs are up and running in incredibly short order, I can access menus and the like almost instantaneously and even the windows folder (previously the worst folder to access using file explorer time wise) is much faster now when I open it... (I have upgraded to the R2A ROM and its much much better)... I find that videos are very watchable and play with no lag and the audio/video in sync... overall its exactly what it says on the tin in my ever so humble experience... although in my own admission I am not very savvy when it comes to these things so perhaps I am misunderstanding the fact that it is supposed to be as fast and capable as my laptop...
even the new generation htc phones (diamond2, touchpro2 )are using the same QC msm7200a present in all common WM w/vga phones http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchdiamond2/specification.html .
i think its about time software development should focused on creeating two versions of the same software
-qvga for compatibility with any phohe (including non graphics accelerated vga phones)
-w/vga version with hardware acceleration since all htcphones released since the kiaser use it
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
THE GRIZZ said:
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
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The Grizz,
I believe it's similar to the whole issue of being able to notice "ghosting" on LCD screens. I personally know what it is, but yet I don't care enough to want to bother about it. For others, some people may not know what ghosting is until you show it to them and once you have "opened their eyes", they irrevocably develop the habit of constantly taking note as it happens on their screens.
And I believe this is ultimately the same issue with the issues you describe. Some people are just really content and amazed with the fact that such a small little bugger can still pack a punch. Sure, it'll slip up once or there, but for the most part, people are happy with what they've spent on the phone.
My 3 cents,
Cheers.
THE GRIZZ said:
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory
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Maybe the SD card tuneup could help you speeding up the off-board flash memory goving you more speed from SDHC then internal flash...
THE GRIZZ said:
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
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One of the basic science rules is: if you gain on one thing you have to give in on other things.
Higher speed means higher power consumption. In time a higher speed will be possible with the same power consumption because the cpu size becomes smaller. But for that you will have to wait.
So what do you want? A speedy phone with unacceptable power consumption or do you want to timetravel to get the newest technology before we can imagine how it should look like ?
Sorry guys for posting this here but I'm pretty sure a LOT of you are waiting for news on the 1 GHz Toshiba TG01. Yes, I've played with it, yes, I've benchmarked it in H.264 video playback and yes, it excelled. See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3339526 for more info.
WOW, have just benchmarked the referenced file on my stock touch HD and it came up with 46% as supposed to TG01's 148%
HTC better put out the proper drivers so we don't fall back too hard, but i doubt they will.
Anyways the Tg01 seems like a great device but the screen IMO is too big. In the world when big things are great, when it comes to phones, it just becomes uncomfortable. It looks like it has the same width as my Nokia E61 and that was one of the most uncomfortable phones.
Pass.. next phone please.
billu said:
WOW, have just benchmarked the referenced file on my stock touch HD and it came up with 46% as supposed to TG01's 148%
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Ouch!! That hurts!
There is talk that HTC's venture into the 1GHz club should be later this year and I think the Blackstone replacement known as "Whitestone" will be one of the first ones with the snapdragon 1GHz processor.
billu said:
There is talk that HTC's venture into the 1GHz club should be later this year and I think the Blackstone replacement known as "Whitestone" will be one of the first ones with the snapdragon 1GHz processor.
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What about Tegra phones?
A Tegra Android device w/ all the bells and whistles (thin, great camera with flash, big sharp transreflective colorful screen, wimax etc...) will just blow everything else so far out of the water that it won't even matter.
I agree, this device is far too large. Not just big. Far too large, 4.1 inch screen MIGHT be ok but...look at the bezel on that thing. No way. I have to admit that the HD is pushing it for me sometimes.
(Even tho it looks like 6.5 is going to be more CRAP from MS, it is a tiny improvement, and stack that w/ HTC's software improvements w/ manilla and the like...I think that the newest tf3d on top of 6.5 w/ a tegra w/ such bells and whistles could still also be very good)
Insaneboy said:
What about Tegra phones?
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A Tegra Android device w/ all the bells and whistles (thin, great camera with flash, big sharp transreflective colorful screen, wimax etc...) will just blow everything else so far out of the water that it won't even matter.
I agree, this device is far too large. Not just big. Far too large, 4.1 inch screen MIGHT be ok but...look at the bezel on that thing. No way. I have to admit that the HD is pushing it for me sometimes.
(Even tho it looks like 6.5 is going to be more CRAP from MS, it is a tiny improvement, and stack that w/ HTC's software improvements w/ manilla and the like...I think that the newest tf3d on top of 6.5 w/ a tegra w/ such bells and whistles could still also be very good).
And I have to admit I am a big speed freak (obviously w/ the wrong company), but as I said...Tegras will blow them all away in more ways than one.
I'm ready for a very powerful device! Size doesn't matter...in fact I like large screens for the internet, gps, & movies. Unless someone else steps up to the plate, I'll get the kick butt TG01!
WoW! Someone got the files for the technology demo? that robot game look amazing and I think we can run it too (perhaps a little slower)