Database Users

WM Better than iPhone.....?

So many of us are ready to jump up and say WM sux. I was tempted to bin my Trinity and buy an iPhone SOOO many times it's not funny.
But you know, after thinking about it...maybe WM (and my Trinity) isn't so bad afterall. Other than the fact that it's so slow it makes you wanna get out and push.. it does everything that the iPhone doesnt!
the current iPhones (3G or otherwise) will NEVER have:
2x Cameras (front and back), Video call, Jog dial, Proper, mappable and tangible buttons to do exactly what I need it to without going through touch-menus... and oh.. a USB connector which means cables/chargers are readily available online for quite literally the price of peanuts.
And what the iPhone can potentially have, but more likely to forever lack:
A2DP, Video recording with the camera, VOIP, DivX/xVID player, Internet Sharing.. and of course... COOKED ROMS!
Then there's the stuff that the iPhones will eventually have - in like maybe a decade:
Tonnes of software, a wide community of Dev's, and the ability for people to get annoyed at it enough that they'd want to flash it with an OS other than what it came with... say... Android for example?
So all in all.. I think the only complaint anyone could really have with a HTC Trinity.. is the SPEED..or lack thereof... in other words, we should really be directing our frustration at HTC.. not microsoft?
HTC!! WAKE UP... Give us another Trinity equivalent but thinner, with a bigger screen which doesn't chew up 50% CPU as soon as you touch it, or eat up 80% CPU when you play an MP3... or only plays a DivX at 13fps!!!... I mean, the Diamond is good but it's about as big as a packet of gum! People are gunna go blind trying to read the screen!
Heck.. just shove a quad-core 2Ghz ULV Intel with a GB of RAM into the current Trinity and as long as the battery will still last at least a full day, we'd ALL be happy! And there'll be no more war in the world. No children will starve and cancer will be cured! There!

I agree. I like modifying my devices. modded xbox, modded laptop, modded computer, modded phone. I even changed the LED in my electric razor from green to blue, so it would match my bathroom. Thats how the PC crowd has been since the beginning of time. I'm hoping that you'll get your wish when the android platform launches.

haha i totally agree with you lonertic
i sometimes wonder how i've gotten from the day where i first bought the trinity, where i thought i was buying the SUPER BEST TOP PHONE avaliable to mankind. now, a year or so later, i find that the price of the trinity has dropped to nokia level, and i find myself embarassed to take out my trinity when i'm with my iphone friends
the irony huh. and to think that i was dumb enough to think that a 400mhz processor will last me a life time. after all, only a couple of years ago, i was using a celeron 366 mhz CPU and it was find for many things!!! why the hell can't the mobile cope with 400mhz
anyway... but after a satisfying day flashing a new rom, new radio, cool manila 2d, more iphone clone programs... well, i'm happy enough
now i want an omnia!

...aren't you looking for the touch hd?

pzucchel, Htc Touch 3G = next "Trinity" i think! Waiting for it!

Iphone definetely sux comparing with Trinity and HTC in general,and I'm not ebaressed at all to show my Trinity in the Iphone crew...

32GB, X7510 replacement early 2009?

Some recent unconnected bits of information on the web have got me thinking that sooner or later there will be another iteration of the Athena series, an x7520 if you will.
First, on Engadget/Engadgetmobile, there was the blog on
How would you change HTC's Advantage X7510?
http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/08/how-would-you-change-htcs-advantage-x7510/
Then there are the regular posts about new HTC projects with new code names, for instance, HTC QUAR100:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/09/08/the-htc-quar100-a-north-american-exclusive/
Then finally, even though it hasn't been announced, Samsung is now making 1.0 inch form factor SSD's, and they are not sata, but pata devices (like the 1.0 microdrives). The largest is 32gb, which trumps the x7510's 16gb:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productList.do?fmly_id=161
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=161&partnum=MCCOE32GZMPP
I'd wager that a successor will be announced around the CES show next year.
All I can say, is that it better have great video performance and the joystick back.
What do you think?

What do I think ???
I don't think there would be any replacement for the HTC Advantage. Why? It is not selling well because of their stupid decision to remove the buttons and joy stick control. Not to mention, the only thing they changed is the keyboard and flash memory. No provider wants to carry it. The only phone operator I read offering the X7510 is TMobile Germany. Even at the country of it's origin, it barely made news when released. The only thing that will save the X7510 at this point is if HTC gave it to phone operators at a very cheap price. Which I suggest they should do now rather than let it sit in their storage due to better models coming out with better specs.
I am sorry to admit this... but I think this is the end for our babies with 5 inch screens. Which I hope won't be the case. I believe a better move on their part is to update the HTC Universal.

I think you have some valid points.
Many of the comments on 'How you would change the x7510' on the Engadget thread mentioned lack of joystick and OK buttons. Major mistake on HTC's parts.
So really there are three options:
HTC abandons the format
HTC introduces one more model with 32GB SSD, joystick or not.
HTC introduces a similar form factor, but totally new design.
I believe that they will at least do the 32GB option, as they don't have to change any hardware.

I would prefer the following changes atleast.
1. More slimmer device.
2. Change the old PXA270 processor to PXA310.
3. Newer phones come with 256MB RAM and 512MB ROM.
Hopefully they will change those too in the new model.
4. Windows Mobile 7
6. Support 800*480 Resolution.
--Srini

Heres what I would improve:
1. Remove the buttons on the face, and make the screen larger (stretch in to the corners of the device. Put the removed buttons on the sides or top of the device.
2. Higher res screen 800x480 ?
3. Larger microdrive, 64GB atleast.
4. Full size SD-card lot, maybe even two.
5. Make the device slimmer.
6. Slide out keyboard (portrait).
7. Newer generation and faster CPU (800MHz ?) / GPU (NVidia ?) combo.
8. 300MB RAM (atleast)
9. 512MB ROM (atleast)
10. Better camera with atleast VGA @ 30 FPS recording.
11. Make a docking station for the device in portrait. With the headphone out and USB host in front and the rest on the back. Dont forget support to charge a second battery.
So what do you guys think ?

1. Put vibrate back in.
2. Change screen aspect ratio from 4:3 to 16:9 (would make it easier to hold like a phone and would give us full-page-width browsing, video)
3. Give us a private speaker so we don't have to carry BT all the time.
4. Put the buttons and joystick back.
5. Include chipset for WiMax.

Yeah what he said plus what I said makes it the almost perfect PDA.

there is something in the works that i know of but i dont know if u would consider this a athena successor. cant give details though.

Now why did you do that ? Common tell us something ! Just anything !

StashCompInc said:
Now why did you do that ? Common tell us something ! Just anything !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
problem is i dont know if u would consider it a athena successor. it doesnt have a microdrive and the screen isn't as big. sorry cant give more details.

Touch HD ?, or is it the Omni your talking about ? None of them are up to the task.

StashCompInc said:
Touch HD ?, or is it the Omni your talking about ? None of them are up to the task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope. not any one of those. these devices the public doesnt know about.

Well then thats something to look forward to.

Nope the magic words "screen isn't as big" and I loose all interest.
The biggest appeal to me for the Athena is the 5 inch screen.
I would however like it slimmer and a full size sd slot.
With the joystick back, a slimmer unit and a full size sd slot it would be near the perfect device for me.

I don't think HTC will simply abandon Athena form factor. For one thing it looks that MIDs (Mobile Internet Devices) will be a popular thing next year and for me Athena is a true MID and for now the best MID.
So what I'm hoping for is that HTC will come up with a new MID device sometime in 2009, that could be a successor to Athena, hopefully with WM7 (I have a silly idea that WM7 will be released together with Win7 sometime in June/July) and with 5" WVGA screen, new faster CPU and more storage...

Pawel062 said:
nope. not any one of those. these devices the public doesnt know about.
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Click to collapse
Pawel,
I know Blackstone is not quite a replacement for the 5 inch screen, but it has FM radio, and faster HSDPA speed. I'm quite keen to go for this. However, if there is something better in the pipeline, I might wait.
I like Blackstone's form factor, but was disappointed with its mere 3.8 inch screen. Of course there are also other disappointments such as the lack of joystick, tv-out, small built-in storage, but the biggest disappointment is the small size.
I hope the replacement model that you have been told retains the 5 inch screen, latest HSDPA, wimax, have embedded earpiece, and similar form factor as blackstone (ie slim and light). Am I likely to be disappointed?

eaglesteve said:
Pawel,
I know Blackstone is not quite a replacement for the 5 inch screen, but it has FM radio, and faster HSDPA speed. I'm quite keen to go for this. However, if there is something better in the pipeline, I might wait.
I like Blackstone's form factor, but was disappointed with its mere 3.8 inch screen. Of course there are also other disappointments such as the lack of joystick, tv-out, small built-in storage, but the biggest disappointment is the small size.
I hope the replacement model that you have been told retains the 5 inch screen, latest HSDPA, wimax, have embedded earpiece, and similar form factor as blackstone (ie slim and light). Am I likely to be disappointed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u enjoy the blackstone. i would go for it. the one im talking about doesnt have all the specs u wanted btw.
edit: btw i want to get the blackstone so there really is nothing too much better in the near term coming.

Pawel062 said:
if u enjoy the blackstone. i would go for it. the one im talking about doesnt have all the specs u wanted btw.
edit: btw i want to get the blackstone so there really is nothing too much better in the near term coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the HTC 8290? If the specs are correct, it's like the Touch HD, except it's got WiMax and TV-out. The lack of TV-out on the Touch HD is a big disappointment to me. I would have bought the HD instantaneously had it had this feature. If the 8290 does have it, and has both WiMax and HSPA, it seems very attractive to me.
Regarding the Advantage, I believe they will keep the form factor because as stated above, MIDs are coming and the Advantage really is pocketable and light enough compared to many other MID offerings. If I were HTC I'd wait for WM 7, and probably use the Tegra APX2500 processor.

Pawel062 said:
if u enjoy the blackstone. i would go for it. the one im talking about doesnt have all the specs u wanted btw.
edit: btw i want to get the blackstone so there really is nothing too much better in the near term coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pawel,
Thanks for your info. I guess I would go for Blackstone as an interim device while waiting for the ultimate Athena replacement. I thought I could live with a 4 inch (and 3.8 inch is close to that) screen, but after making up a prototype and played with it, I don't think the screen is big enough yet. May be 4.5 at the very minimum. I had played with the iPhone and just don't like the small screen. Too much zooming in and out when surfing the net and that drives me nut after a while.
Sigh... May be Athena as it is now is still the best, even when compared to Blackstone.

eaglesteve said:
Pawel,
Thanks for your info. I guess I would go for Blackstone as an interim device while waiting for the ultimate Athena replacement. I thought I could live with a 4 inch (and 3.8 inch is close to that) screen, but after making up a prototype and played with it, I don't think the screen is big enough yet. May be 4.5 at the very minimum. I had played with the iPhone and just don't like the small screen. Too much zooming in and out when surfing the net and that drives me nut after a while.
Sigh... May be Athena as it is now is still the best, even when compared to Blackstone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea, i dont mind the 3.8in screen. i have the iphone 3g and have gotten used to the zooming bc of the multitouch. afaik, there isnt anything with a screen bigger than that of the blackstones coming out anytime soon unless theres something in the works that i dont know about.

Browsing experience....

My biggest concern, having followed the video performance thread here, is with the Opera experience. I've been using Opera 9.5 on my trusty Loox N560 (with a WM6 ROM) for a while.
The results on the VGA of this 4(+?) year old device are passable but the lag between a page loading and the screen rendering is quite painful as the page resolves from a series of grey boxes over about 10 seconds.
I want to present web work to clients on the HD and if the Opera experience still suffers like this it could be a problem for me.
Anyone with device in hand care to comment.
Many thanks!

There is still a lag on some large webpages with the grey squares. This does like i said depend on the size of the webpage and also the speed of your connection.
However i find the browsing experience a real treat on the HD.

Mark One said:
My biggest concern, having followed the video performance thread here, is with the Opera experience. I've been using Opera 9.5 on my trusty Loox N560 (with a WM6 ROM) for a while.
The results on the VGA of this 4(+?) year old device are passable but the lag between a page loading and the screen rendering is quite painful as the page resolves from a series of grey boxes over about 10 seconds.
I want to present web work to clients on the HD and if the Opera experience still suffers like this it could be a problem for me.
Anyone with device in hand care to comment.
Many thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, can't answer your request but:-
Ahhh the Loox N560.... what a lovely machine.
If you used to frequent FirstLoox you would have known my Father, he was one of the Mods.
Beards

Ahh - yes - beautiful 3.5 inch 640x480 screen, 624Mhz xscale processor, 193MB on board with wifi, BT & GPS. And a 3.5mm jack.
No phone of course, but the specs don't look bad even today. Which is why I've kept it going for so long.
Until the HD - which I thought was the answer to my dreams.
However, yet again it seems HTC have gone and shot a beautiful concept in the foot - I can't believe the video driver is an issue again - time to revive that class action suit?
If it's anywhere as bad as my polaris it's a deal breaker for me.

It's certianly a little laggy, especially with complex or rich websites. No deal breaker as long as you set your expectations.
Remember the HD has a bigger res and a slower CPU than your current phone.

A slower processor than a 3 year old PDA? That's not so great now is it...

Mark One said:
A slower processor than a 3 year old PDA? That's not so great now is it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've still got my Pocket Loox 720 (over 3yrs old) and it still works like a dream.
520 MHz CPU
VGA 640 x 480 pixel resolution
Both CF & SC card slots
3.5" speaker
Wifi
Bluetooth
Surfstar III Compactflash GPS
Excellent for playing movies (especially over my home network in the garden).
These older machines can still fly along and play games like Virtual Pool without even a stutter.
The only thing missing from it is being a phone.
Beards

I guess I should manage my expectations for the HD then. I was expecting it to fly compared to my old loox.
What happened - processors are still roughly on the Moore's Law curve right - so why is HTC going backwards?

Mark One said:
I guess I should manage my expectations for the HD then. I was expecting it to fly compared to my old loox.
What happened - processors are still roughly on the Moore's Law curve right - so why is HTC going backwards?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because HTC is using Qualcomm, and your old device has Intel. Qualcomm is newer and more advanced in that it has more things onboard, while with Intel you have to have a few more separate chips. This (and probably some good deal HTC got) should explain why HTC didn't opt for the faster (and less energy consuming) Intel platform, I guess.

What can come after this "phone"?????

anyone can tell me what will arrive after this phone..?because i want to buy it but i'm worried about possible innovations from other trades(like iphone2)..

Thats technology for you. There will always be a better device just round the corner. All you can do is get the best currently available and with phones get the shortest contract you can so you can upgrade or trade in.

LOL - it's never the right time to buy!
6 months ago, I started looking for a new phone.
Easy - Tocco
Then iPhone 3g came out - hmmmm. Nice, but can't get them anywhere anyway. So wait a bit.
Then I saw the Omnia - hmmm again. Not as good as the iPhone, but I've got an iPod anyway, so maybe...
Then the X1 was being talked about - now that looked tasty! And my contract was nearly up.
So yes. That's it then - Omnia. I mean X1. Errr...
or maybe the G1...
Contract ended 3 weeks ago - time to start looking in earnest!
So.
Omina - still a possible.
iPhone - yep, still in there.
X1 - looks like the favourite...
But hang on - BlackBerry Storm! Where did that come from!?
(eventualy dropped that - no wifi)
LG Renoir - oh heck.
Samsung Pixia thingy - blimey, head hurts now!
Aha! HTC HD
Sorted, took the plunge, awaiting arrival
What'll be out tomorrow (or more likely, just after Christmas)?
Probably something which will make me regret splashing out on the HD LOL
But if you hang on forever, waiting for whatever has just been announced, you end up using a phone (or PC / Laptop / whatever else electrical) that is 10 years old.
Pick a date, go for the best at the time, and don't worry about it.
Whenever you buy, you'll wish you'd waited an extra week!

All you have to do i buy a phone that you think will last. I still have my year old N95 8GB, its still better than 95% of phones out there. If you have a smartphone (as in a phone with a proper OS), you cant go to far wrong if it covers all the basics at launch.
In terms of the Touch HD and windows mobiles nothing major can be improved in the short term. If you need a phone in the next few months the HD is the way to go. Maybe a better camera, enabled GPU video and other minor tweaks, but nothing to worry about. Not for 6 months or more anyway.
What Apple will do only Apple knows, but im really not worried about Apple.
Nokias touch screen Symbians maybe more worrying, but they are a fair way off.

What's coming?
What we could be missing?
OLED Screens
Wi-Max
LTE
Capacitive Multitouch screens on:
WinMo 6.5
Returned TV-Out
Stereo (or Surround ) Sound
Faster CPU's with
Better video/3D- Acceleration
Well, that's what you might miss, among other unknown things of course, like fuel cells, Li-Polymer batteries from HTC, DVB-H support, or Galileo..
Just consider what you actually need, and look for that. The HD is probably already a whole lot more than that!

Nvidia Tegra is going ot be here soon...
720p encoding and decoding
Xperia like panels in 3D that actually do the thing, while you're browsing the others.
Just youtube Nvidia Tegra...

flash for the camera
TV out for presentation or simply watching on a big screen.
higher resolution camera 8MP
better video recorder - higher fps.
built-in television like the korean omnia.
AM radio
D-pad or gesture pad.
4.5 inch screen, or even larger flexible and foldable screen.
Built quality using same material as iphone, where paint coating will not come off.
wm7
Video driver
Stereo speakers similar to that in Athena.

Insaneboy said:
Nvidia Tegra is going ot be here soon...
720p encoding and decoding
Xperia like panels in 3D that actually do the thing, while you're browsing the others.
Just youtube Nvidia Tegra...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tegra Products to be announced Spring 2009, in your hand mid-2009
If everything goes along well of course.
It's certainly a chip, or SoC, we should keep an eye out for. It's the upgrade for the HD, especially if full QTV support is not enough to get all videos running smoothly.

Touch HD vs Toshiba TG01

this is a proper contender for the touch hd. it uses the latest snapdragon processor. tell me what you think guys. is the hd better than this Toshiba TG01

The Toshiba TG01 is not even out yet, so how could anyone know? Only thing I could say about it is that the screen seems a little bit too big to carry it around in your pocket.

i tell you what, this year is WM6.5/WM7 device year, how could you buy a still-a-wm6.1 device 2009? after a half year, WM7 device will come out, so TG01 is just born in a wrong time.

Winmo 7 won't be out untill end of 2009 and will probably be avaible on devices well after to 2010. I don't even consider 6.5 a major make over either as I was not very impressed by it, most probably 6.5 going to be a free upgrade anyway, so why not. Only thing I don't like about the tg01 is that it is rather large, HD is just about manageable to me, but the tg01 adds another centimeter to it.

The Tosh looks like the bezel is a bit too substantial. Given that 4.1" is already a bit chunky, it's a bit too big for my liking.

arfster said:
The Tosh looks like the bezel is a bit too substantial. Given that 4.1" is already a bit chunky, it's a bit too big for my liking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree that it will be too big with a 4.1" screen, especially as there is a lot of "surround" above and below the screen. The pics that compare it with the Iphone (similar size to HD) makes it look huge.

I will wait and see.
But, I had a Toshiba G900 which was rubbish !! I forget all the problems but I remember the screen was very poor quality - impossible to read in bright interior lights (let alone day light !!) and the operating system was really badly unstable. I suspect they have fixed the OS by now.
Let's hope they bring out that big screen in a super clear and readable way !

the hd has hit the limit in size for me
that fone shares more with a tabletpc than a pdaphone, well size wise anyways

I've had nokia tablet n810 which has the screen size 4.13" which is almost the same as the new toshiba. I got a tell you, I can't image using it as a phone.
HD feels just right..

From a technical side, it looks really nice.
However, I think Toshiba just stepped out of the boundaries of what most people consider to be acceptable in terms of size. Yes, the phone is a bit thinner then HD, but so much bigger in all other directions. One of the key features of HD when it was discussed in media was that it had the same size as iPhone but much better feature set and much better screen.
I would always choose a thicker device with smaller pocket footprint then other way around. I hope the build quality will be able to hold pressure of everyday use.
On a side note, my first thought when reading the specifications was "what kind of battery will be able to cope with 1 gHz power-hungry processor".
Other obvious minuses are small-resolution camera, with no flash. Can't understand why they left it out on Touch HD, and now Toshiba lowers the resolution and leaves the flash out. Someone in Toshiba development should really start paying attention to what people want.

Don't get me wrong.... I love my HD but the TG01 looks hot to me. I'm not put off by the slightly bigger device because it is so thin and with my older eyes the 4.1" will make a difference. As far as the tech specs... the neat thing about the snapdragon is its ability to slow its clock down for better battery life automatically... so you get the 1Gz goodness when you want it without paying the "gas" bill on the battery when you don't. Don't forget the awesome graphics co-processor loaded on this bad boy as well... more powerful than a PSP and able to leap tall building in a single bound! (How did that slip in? - but I digress)... The best news for me is that it is a WIMO machine when means I get all the flexibilty of WIMO and all the warts (good for us software developers... gives us jobs )
It also looks like an interesting scroll bar control on the front... not quite a DPAD but better than what my HD has.

Hmmmm - wait and see, but looking at this baby in pocketpcthoughts and msmobile I think it exceed the comfortable size limits for me.
The new CPU sounds great but I'm concerned about the battery pack. Anyone seen specs on that - I think we need a pack double the capacity of the HD to make me confident of getting at least a day out of this Toshiba.
Now, an HD that is 3 mm thick - that sounds more like it !!

OK
Having now viewed the vid at http://www.engadget.com on this I'm fairly convinced it is just too big for a pocket/belt/shirt device.
The new interface looks like fun but I suspect it has the same flaws as TF3D - really very pretty but lacking in functions.
I'm waiting for "whitestone" ...

device looks awesome, am sure it will be snappier and will likely resolve the endless graphic rendering problems we have on our htc's.. but without a 3.5 mm jack this thing is useless as a multimedia device

For me even HD is little too big, which is why I still use my Diamond pretty often (I have multisim so same number on 2 SIM cards).
I believe it will be nice looking and powerfull but I see few faults:
1st. large 4.1" RESISTIVE screen == very weak
2nd. no 3.5mm audio output
3rd. Lower MP camera and no flash
4th. Cant be large capacity battery because of it is so thin. (Could be Li-Pol) but still it must be very thin.

TG01 ? oh no... I prefer th Touch HD for the moment...
TG01 has bad resolution camera (3.15 MP) and no video call capabilities !
tunppi said:
For me even HD is little too big, which is why I still use my Diamond pretty often (I have multisim so same number on 2 SIM cards).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But for me my Diamond is little too small, which is why I still use my Touch HD pretty often

I agree the TG01 is too big.
I reckon it's too big to wrap you hand around comfortably for one handed thumb operation. Imagine having to operate this phone with two hands all the time.
Maybe too big to fit some pockets.
THD / iPhone is about the largest L x W I'm willing to go.
Also no support from XDA. The biggest

Rozenthal said:
Other obvious minuses are small-resolution camera, with no flash. Can't understand why they left it out on Touch HD, and now Toshiba lowers the resolution and leaves the flash out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lowering the resolution is a good thing, it'll take better pictures at this sensor size due to less noise problems. That's why they've done it.
5 megapixels is way too many for a phone, and thus the HD's camera is rubbish.

agreed.. 5 megapixels is ridiculous for a sensor of that size and the proof is in the poor quality of the pictures taken by the hd. i think you'd find that the pictures would look better on the toshiba (if they do the job properly.. pictures taken on se's and samsungs certainly do). it's the size of the phone that's the issue for me..

also agree that 3 megapixels is way better than 5 megapixels on these devices! as for the size this toshiba is way to big for one hand operation...