Database Users

[REF] Secrets of the S-AMOLED+ revealed - black crush / battery compromise

While we really like the AMOLED+ display for its deep blacks, it also has major flaws:
- Severe black crush (loss of shadow details in dark scenes) when power saving is disengaged (which is the only way to obtain decent brightness)
- Greenish white, which becomes bluish after a few weeks of operation
- Oversaturated greens
- Loss of brightness after a few weeks of use
- Yellowish areas on the screen produced by the deterioration of AMOLED cells through heat, particularly prominent for gamers and overclockers
I wanted to run a few measurements to better understand what could be done at the software level to alleviate those issues. I am listing my findings below, following which I make a few recommendations to Samung, developers and users of the SGSII.
Findings
1. The maximum light outout with "Auto Adjust Screen Power" is limited
Note that the "Auto Adjust Screen Power" option is different to the automatic "auto-brightness" option. All measurements were made with auto-brightness deactivated and maximum brightness.
After measurements the results are as follows:
- Film Mode: 147cd/m²
- Standard Mode:149cd/m²
- Dynamic Mode: 147cd/m²
The lower value in film mode is due to the limitation of green and blue in film mode, which typically produce more luminance.
The lower value in dynamic mode is due to the picture becoming bright too fast above 50% brightness, there is actually white crush happening, as the Power Saving mode is trying to cap power consumption. This is similar to what is observed on a plasma, where Power Consumption is throttled
2. Disengaring the "Auto Adjust Screen Power" option (this is different to the Auto-Brightness option) significantly increases the brightness output
Not many people suspect the impact that "Auto Adjust Screen Power" option has. Engaging that option provides for much higher bighthness (at the expense of battery life):
- Film Mode: 276 cd/m²
- Standard Mode:285 cd/m²
- Dynamic Mode: 283 cd/m²
This is of course is at the expense of battery life but is still useful when trying to read in the sun. Unfortunately, as we will see later, this has a negative impact on shadow details and is not recommended for film viewing.
3. Light output diminishes though intensive use
The measurements after 3 weeks of use consistently show a deterioration of the maximum brightness over time.
Power Saving Engaged:
- Film Mode: 145 cd/m² (-1.4%)
- Standard Mode:147 cd/m² (-1.4%)
- Dynamic Mode: 145 cd/m² (-1.4%)
Power Saving Disabled:
- Film Mode: 270 cd/m² (-2.2%)
- Standard Mode:278 cd/m² (-2.5%)
- Dynamic Mode: 276 cd/m² (-2.5%)
I will continue to monitor this and post updated results in a few weeks.
4. The white balance exhibits a green push, which progressively becomes more bluish over time
I remember finding the whites greenish when I first got the phone. After 3 weeks, I wasn't bothered that much, they looked more neutral to me. I decided to test again after 3 weeks of use. The results confirmed by observations:
- Color temperature shifted after 3 weeks of use, with the proportion of blue increasing at the expense of green
- The color space after 3 weeks displays less saturated green
White balance at unboxing (green push)
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White balance 3 weeks later (blue push)
3. Standard and Dynamic mode have the same color space. Film mode exhibits less green oversaturation
Dynamic/Standard Color Space:
Film Color Space:
4. Film Mode with engaged Power Saving has the best gamma
The dynamic mode has got a skewed gama with a white crush
Film Mode offers better gamma
Disengaging power saving creates black crush
When power saving mode is disabled, the loss of shadow details in dark video sequences becomes even more prominent:
As an example, I am including the gamma curve for the least faulty Film Mode with Power Saving disengaged. The much increased light output we saw earlier is at the expense of shadow details:
Recommendations to Samsung
The display clearly has a lot of potential:
-True blacks
- Large color space
- Very good maximum light output
- Standard Mode gamma is pretty linear
[/LIST]
Unfortunately, these qualities are poorly exploited:
- Gamma is overall too high at lower stimulas. Black crush is happening in any mode, thought at various degree
- White balance is biased toward green and blue, which leads to very high color temperatue. Whites are greenish on first year, evolving toward bluish with increased use.
- The color space could be toned down further. Even in film mode, the greens are too saturated
What Samsung could easily do:
- Further reduce light output in film mode by removing blue and green - this would allow for a color temperature of 65K
- Correct the gamma issues: a simple gamma control under the screen settings allowing to shift gamma incrementally across the whole bightness spectrum would allow very decent results indeed
- Although this has less of a priority in my book, allow a color space with further reduced green saturation.
Recommendations to Android Developers
Develop an app allowing to control:
- Bightness
- Contrast
- Gamma
- If possible for each individual color channel
Such an app would be beneficial to all smartphones on the market!
Recommendations to users
- Use the film mode when watching videos in order to avoid black crush, oversaturation and high color temperature. It is still far from the film standard, but will yield the best viewing experience
- Do not disable power saving mode or you will experience significant black crush. Only do so when viewing in bright environments where contrast is more important than accurate gamma.
Closing thoughts
It is obvious when looking at the numbers, that Samsung have struggled to throttle power consumption on the Galaxy devices while still maintaining brightness comparable to the iPhone 4:
When users reclaim more brightness by deactivating power saving, they indeed get nice peak brightness, but this is at the expense of the darker areas, which lose shadow details in order to limit power consumption.
Many users would be happy with an inbetween solution, with brighness around 180cd/m² but more accurate gamma

thanks for the post, but what secrets were revealed? Quite possible I am too tired (2 in the morning my time), but I only see thorough measurements here
How do you explain color space change and brightness decrease in the weeks you had the phone? Is this how quick the OLED light output degrades?

kreoXDA said:
thanks for the post, but what secrets were revealed? Quite possible I am too tired (2 in the morning my time), but I only see thorough measurements here
How do you explain color space change and brightness decrease in the weeks you had the phone? Is this how quick the OLED light output degrades?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You ask what secrets were revealed, but then you ask about one of the interesting findings. OLED displays in general are known to degrade over time, as OLED are especially vulnerable to heat.
The degradation you observe is typically more important in the first few weeks of operation, so there is no need to panic. I will continue to monitor this over time and post updated findings.
Why is green most affected? Green is responsible for most of the light output in any display, because it has a high luminance. This is why Samsung's AMOLED exhibits a green push in the white balance, which no other type screen exhibits. Green oversaturation is very hard to compensate with red, and it would likely reduce battery life. You could see green as an economical way of producing more light output at the lowest power consumtion possible.
Balanced greyscale is only achievable if one is prepared to live with a lower maximum brightness on AMOLED's...or insane battery consumption.
I guess, this is the undisclosed truth that Samsung of course will not publicly admit to, but this is what the measurements reveal when you are used to calibrating displays. Basically, Samsung have had to make compromises in terms of white balance and black crush in order to squeeze some extra brightness out of the battery!

I really have no clue what you just wrote in your OP but you seem to know a lot about displays and color. What I do know about the SGS2 is that is shows color banding in gradients maybe you could explain why that happens, is it a characteristic of the display or a software problem?
eg see these threads:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102766
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1075364
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1121840

godutch said:
I really have no clue what you just wrote in your OP but you seem to know a lot about displays and color. What I do know about the SGS2 is that is shows color banding in gradients maybe you could explain why that happens, is it a characteristic of the display or a software problem?
eg see these threads:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102766
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1075364
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1121840
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This probably needs to be solved at the driver level, just like the color gamma and white balance issues. This is related and is something that Chainfire could have a look at. That's his domain of expertise after all...
I only calibrate displays. I am totally unskilled as a developer.

Cool so the display is capable of 24 bits color at least?

maybe u can forward this to supercurio. He has some interest as well as experience developing voodoo color for the last gen samsung phones.

MiG123 said:
maybe u can forward this to supercurio. He has some interest as well as experience developing voodoo color for the last gen samsung phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea. I posted to Chainfire already, but Supercurio may actually be an even more natural choice.

This has me worried "Greenish white, which becomes bluish after a few weeks of operation"
Is there a bedding in period for oled when they are new, like a plasma tv , that they say to keep the brightness low and avoid frozen images and logos for the first 100hrs until the phosphor settles down.
Hopefully the degradation of the colours will slow down.
EDIT : Also any owners of previous generation oled mobiles, how much degradation of the colours and brightness do they show after a few months/years.
EDIT 2 : It looks like the "Samsung W2400 Special Edition" from 2007 is one of the first oled cell phones , I wonder how it`s display is holding up.

puremind said:
Great idea. I posted to Chainfire already, but Supercurio may actually be an even more natural choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is indeed a Supercurio thing

What worries me the most is the left side yellow tint ... and samsung says noting.
I went for S2 because of the SAMOLED+ screen and now I get yellow tint for 600€

Thanks for taking the time to do the testing. I'm used to a calibrated environment (I'm a photographer) and I have to say that I really don't like looking at non-calibrated displays of any kind (usually over saturated, too bright and very obvious colour shifts). If anyone can come up with a way of making proper adjustments to the S2, I would be soooo happy

Nice info. Another dirty secret I'm on the fence about is how power hungry white screens actually ate on amoled screens. Look at the test results I did and how power usage spikes to -900 mA just loading a white web page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=998544

RogerPodacter said:
Nice info. Another dirty secret I'm on the fence about is how power hungry white screens actually ate on amoled screens. Look at the test results I did and how power usage spikes to -900 mA just loading a white web page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=998544
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not surprised. This confirms my theory that Samsung indeed hat to fiddle a lot to contain power consumption within acceptable levels, hence the lack of reds across the greyscale, the black crush we observe without screen power auto adjust and the limited brightness output with it engaged...!
Still, I wouldn't mind having a power hungry but accurate color profile that I can engage only as needed! The screen definitely has the potential. The only question is: at what brightness level is a balanced greyscale achievable. I am betting at around 110cd/m². Considering the true blacks this is very acceptable in dark environments (similar to the best plasma screens), but will not be satisfying under day light conditions, which is most of the time...
Still, I wouldn't mind attempting such a calibration providing the right tool is developed.

Tinderbox (UK) said:
This has me worried "Greenish white, which becomes bluish after a few weeks of operation"
Is there a bedding in period for oled when they are new, like a plasma tv , that they say to keep the brightness low and avoid frozen images and logos for the first 100hrs until the phosphor settles down.
Hopefully the degradation of the colours will slow down.
EDIT : Also any owners of previous generation oled mobiles, how much degradation of the colours and brightness do they show after a few months/years.
EDIT 2 : It looks like the "Samsung W2400 Special Edition" from 2007 is one of the first oled cell phones , I wonder how it`s display is holding up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the degradation is visible after a month-two, we just do not want to believe our eyes.
I think when I first unboxed my phone, it looked so much brighter!
And this is how Samsung is selling us these HyperSuperAMOLED+++ "upgrades" - whenever we look at a new version it is by design looking better than our old previous generation AMOLED

Which firmware did you have in the first test and any firmware changes prior to the last test?

jvidia said:
I went for S2 because of the SAMOLED+ screen and now I get yellow tint for 600€
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% same here. Nah, seriously I should've gone for the S-LCD displays. S-AMOLED + is still an unfinished product, under development, unless it comes to the stage of a finished and ready for market product we should avoid it. Thanks to OP for doing some good measurements.
Regards.

kreoXDA said:
I believe the degradation is visible after a month-two, we just do not want to believe our eyes.
I think when I first unboxed my phone, it looked so much brighter!
And this is how Samsung is selling us these HyperSuperAMOLED+++ "upgrades" - whenever we look at a new version it is by design looking better than our old previous generation AMOLED
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard for me to judge if i had any screen degradations on my captivate since i had it flashed to a new rom quite often and i never had the screen on high brightness (never felt the need to do so)

kreoXDA said:
I believe the degradation is visible after a month-two, we just do not want to believe our eyes.
I think when I first unboxed my phone, it looked so much brighter!
And this is how Samsung is selling us these HyperSuperAMOLED+++ "upgrades" - whenever we look at a new version it is by design looking better than our old previous generation AMOLED
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that not all of the degradation is negative. The alleviates the oversaturated greens, and a bluish greyscale is arguably better than a greenish one.
Also, the brightness is still more than enough and bighter than many laptops even after a few weeks of operation.
I will keep monitoring to see how things develop.

ithehappy said:
100% same here. Nah, seriously I should've gone for the S-LCD displays. S-AMOLED + is still an unfinished product, under development, unless it comes to the stage of a finished and ready for market product we should avoid it. Thanks to OP for doing some good measurements.
Regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that the limitation seems to be the battery rather than the display itself. Also the software is responsible for the presets and lack of controls. When Supercurio comes up with Voodoo for the SGSII, we should be able to rectify most of the issues.
The screen is still excellent for films watched in a dark environment if you keep screen power auto adjust activated.
Bightness can be as bright as on a retina display, yes, but at a high power consumption cost.

Small review on the camera on the Note 2 vs iPhone 4

I have decided to do a little comparison test with the Galaxy note 2 and my old iPhone 4. I have only recently come aboard the good ship Android, so I am still finding my way around. Although I fully understand that the camera does not make or break the phone, for me it is one of the features that I rely on now and again.
I love taking a picture with my SLR but there are times when you cannot use the SLR, or times when you do not want to take it out so for me the camera is something I use. If it had been my sole requirement i would have probably chosen the Nokia 808 Pureview, but Nokia decided to cripple their phones using their chosen software - but that's is another debate.
I didn’t want to do a tremendous amount of testing so I decided to use the stock apps on both phones. I have paid a little more detail to the Note 2 with looking at the normal picture setting and the low light function. I may use another application on the note as the standard camera app is not the best.
I placed a book, a battery and a sound card in my photo booth. The reason for these items was to get something with a plain colour (the book) something that is small but has a little bit of detail (battery) and something that has a lot of detail (sound card). All tests were conducted indoors, nothing outdoors as of yet.
iPhone image:
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Note 2 Image:
From both images you can see there is a definite difference. The iPhones image has a little more ‘viberance’ to it. Overall the colour on the iPhone looks better overall whereas the note 2 image looks a little washed out, however this is purely subjective and I like my photos to have a little more saturation. When viewing photos on the AMOLED screen they do look incredibly vibrant, however, on a normal monitor they do not. What is quite interesting is that the file size of the iPhone 4 image is actually larger than that of the 8 mega pixel file form the Note 2. This could be for a number of reasons; one could be the amount of sharpening applied in the processing, another could be the amount of saturation the software adds to give it a little more ‘zing’.
When testing the sharpness and detail of a camera most magazines tend to do 100% crops showing how much detail can be resolved. The comparisons have been done below.
iPhone first, then Note 2.
Crop with low light mode enabled
From this quick demo you can see that there is a slight difference between the iPhone and the Samsung photos. Personally I don’t think its hardware related, I’m pretty sure that it is software related. I am going on the browse for some add free, free camera software and take a few photos with that.
Once again I would like to stress that this is just an indoor shot, and I have simply not had time to do any outdoor shots. Maybe I will try some on the weekend and report back then.
What do you lot think?

Like yourself it seems, photography is a big hobby of mine and whilst I use a DSLR normally too, I'm more than happy to have my Note 2 with me for quick snaps.
Looking at your test shots, I'd say overall there's not much between them.
iPhone is definitely more vibrant, but the Note 2 shots look more natural. Looking at the uncropped shots, the Note 2 seems to give a clearer image but when viewed at 100% the iPhone seems to have captured slightly more detail. I'd say the Note 2 controls noise better, especially with low light mode. Even without low light mode the Note 2 seems to use more noise control than the iPhone. The downside to this is that more noise control can lead to softer shots, which is why the iPhone shots looks a touch sharper, if a little grainy.
Could all just be my eyes though
Random fact... the Note 2 was originally meant to ship with a 13MP Sony sensor, but Sony couldn't produce enough in time to meet Samsung's deadline so instead it shipped with an 8MP sensor. As you probably know, more MP doesn't always mean a better image as cramming more pixels on a small sensor means each pixel can capture less light, but it would have been interesting to see what the images would have been like had it got the 13MP sensor.

I really wish nokia would have licensed their Pureview tech to Samsung. Would make it a little better.

Though the GS2 and the GN2 both have an 8MP camera, I find the GN2's camera far superior. I suspect this may have something to do with the faster CPU, but not sure. I have used both extensively.

Dylanlewis2000 said:
I really wish nokia would have licensed their Pureview tech to Samsung. Would make it a little better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really wish Nokia would produce android devices as well...
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app

The iPhone clearly takes sharper images in this comparison, at the expense of noise. Contrast appears to be much better with the iPhone as well, the GN2 photos look a little 'washed out'. Colours are more vibrant with the iPhone as well but perhaps too much?

A semi pro photographer here, hobby too. I never liked any cell phone's camera to be honest. But when I had my C905, things were little better. It had an impressive camera, almost replaced my Ixus for now and then, here and there shots. Then I got the Satio. Another good one. Then don't know what happened, I stepped into Samsung! My first Sammy was a i8910, it had a good camera. So I thought let's continue with Samsung. Next was Wave S8500, I didn't buy it for camera anyway. Then I got the infamous SII. Well after using it for more than year, I can say I was 'fairly' happy with it. Now, Note 2, I don't know, right from the first shot, till now, I DO NOT like this camera, how the photos are appearing, are below average in my eyes.
It's always about 'post software processing' in a mobile camera. A tiny sensor can never produce great photos. So it all matters how the photo is being processed after taking it via the camera firmware provided. That's where a brand plays it tricks. Most of them have Sony's sensor, so talking about hardware is meaningless. Now, here in Note 2, the post processing seems either to be not full or poorly done. Optimizing a photo is bad! An average user, who really would care about the 'background' processes, all they will see the ultimate photo, and there Note 2 fails. Photos turn out grainy, with noise. The biggest letdown is the led flash. At night, in parties, when it's dark, and you don't have your SLR or it's not the place for it, of course you'll need flash. The flash is terribly weak, and badly spread.
Anyway, writing too much, I'm short, after owning 7 or 8 high end cell phones, with their average camera, this Note 2 camera is the most disappointing in my eyes.
However, I don't give a damn, I always (you know what I mean) carry my 350 or D90 (yeah, I know, they are average DSLR), so I'd not bother much about this, BUT not everyone is like me or like OP, for them a 700$ mobile phone should provide 'fairly good' output, where this device, F A I L S.
Now, one thing you see, I really won't bother by some fanboys quoting my comment and say otherwise, knowing I've spent my hard time and money, for more than a decade behind photography. So thanks to them in advance anyway
Sent from my GT-N7100

The main issue comes down to the camera using iso 800 on auto mode in many scenes, i.e indoors, which is just bizarre. Set it to a lower value manually and the graininess gets a lot better.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

If you want more vibrant colours in the settings select SCN/Panorama.

Confusing reviews

Hi guys. I rang my local store here today and got a price of €420 euro for the z3 without contract which seems pretty good given that the samsung alpha here is €570. Also the z3 compact is priced at being £430 in the uk so not quiet sure why its cheaper here in Ireland as usually we pay more for products then anywhere else ha
Anyways iam tempted to pull the trigger but for some confusing reviews i have read! Most reviews claim the resolution is poor and the screen is not as sharp as the competition, images look washed out and the camera is not as good as you would expect from a 20.7mp camera , color accuracy is way off and images look washed out etc and one review claimed the battery life was ok but not as good as sony claimed!
However i have also seen two reviews that say the opposite and claim the display is the best 720p they have ever seen, the camera is among the best out there and that battery life is incredible!
Can anyone that owns the device give they're impressions?
Currently own a htc one m7 which has been good to me . I often change phones regularly but have kept this for almost 2 years and it works flawlessly and is still as snappy as ever to this day so iam slightly worried about the z3 compact not being a significant upgrade! Ill miss the htc sense widgets and although iam not fan of the sony home screen and lock screen look , Iam loving the specs and the fact i can use the phone comfortable in one hand! Would have got the z3 but see it as being a little too big

Blaalad12 said:
Hi guys. I rang my local store here today and got a price of €420 euro for the z3 without contract which seems pretty good given that the samsung alpha here is €570. Also the z3 compact is priced at being £430 in the uk so not quiet sure why its cheaper here in Ireland as usually we pay more for products then anywhere else ha
Anyways iam tempted to pull the trigger but for some confusing reviews i have read! Most reviews claim the resolution is poor and the screen is not as sharp as the competition, images look washed out and the camera is not as good as you would expect from a 20.7mp camera , color accuracy is way off and images look washed out etc and one review claimed the battery life was ok but not as good as sony claimed!
However i have also seen two reviews that say the opposite and claim the display is the best 720p they have ever seen, the camera is among the best out there and that battery life is incredible!
Can anyone that owns the device give they're impressions?
Currently own a htc one m7 which has been good to me . I often change phones regularly but have kept this for almost 2 years and it works flawlessly and is still as snappy as ever to this day so iam slightly worried about the z3 compact not being a significant upgrade! Ill miss the htc sense widgets and although iam not fan of the sony home screen and lock screen look , Iam loving the specs and the fact i can use the phone comfortable in one hand! Would have got the z3 but see it as being a little too big
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll soon be buying this phone as well. About the resolution, my current phone has the same resolution on a slightly smaller display of 4.3", with a pixel density of 342 ppi and the image is so sharp that I cannot distinguish pixels with the naked eye no matter how hard I try. The Z3 Compact has 319 ppi on its 4.6" display, which really isn't much lower at all. I can imagine the pixels will still be too small to distinguish with the naked eye. Okay, maybe if, for some reason, you use the phone under a magnifying glass or if you hold it flat against your face, it won't look very sharp (duh). But if you just use your phone like normal, I'm sure the display on the Z3C will appear perfectly sharp.
About the colour: ExpertReviews, for example, claims that the whites are white enough (they describe it as "ice white"). They mention the white balance option on the device, but said that they felt no need to adjust the white balance.

With regard to camera quality, most reviews had it in Superior Auto Mode that saves the file about 8MP. Those who own one are saying the Manual Mode is where you can see the pic quality excel. I trust DXO mark more than others. Here's how they rank the phones based on IQ. This is the older generation Z2 that is using very similar lens albeit there is slight improvement on the Z3. Just not sure if the improvement is in the hardware or software. Full review can be found here:
http://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Sony-Xperia-Z2-overview-Revised-model-takes-first-place-in-Mobile-rankings
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I just got my Z3c today; I've had a M8 until today and a M7 before that. I honestly can't tell that the screen is 720 instead of 1080, and everything, from pictures to videos to text, looks very sharp. I don't see any color accuracy issues, and I'd say color reproduction is the same (as far as I can tell) as on the M8 and M7. I love the size of the device, and it's a great feeling to be able to use my phone with 1 hand lol. I'd say go for it!

LastQuark said:
With regard to camera quality, most reviews had it in Superior Auto Mode that saves the file about 8MP. Those who own one are saying the Manual Mode is where you can see the pic quality excel. I trust DXO mark more than others. Here's how they rank the phones based on IQ. This is the older generation Z2 that is using very similar lens albeit there is slight improvement on the Z3. Just not sure if the improvement is in the hardware or software. Full review can be found here:
http://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Sony-Xperia-Z2-overview-Revised-model-takes-first-place-in-Mobile-rankings
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhh they have the Nokia 1020 under the Iphone 5 and s4... that can't be right

First off, 720/1080p means nothing. Pixel density is what actually matters, and 720p at 4.6" is more than high enough to be a non-issue unless you hold the phone up to your eyeballs.
Likewise, megapixel count doesn't mean as much as people think. The sensor size matters more, and at 1/3" it's larger than most. It's not the best smartphone camera on the market, but it's still quite good.
The colors are poorly calibrated out of the box, and it does look bad, but it's trivial to fix in the color settings, so that's not really a big deal.
Battery life is never as good as the manufacturer claims, but it's still pretty good so far. I haven't had it long enough to really tell you for sure though.

Blaalad12 said:
Hi guys. I rang my local store here today and got a price of €420 euro for the z3 without contract which seems pretty good given that the samsung alpha here is €570. Also the z3 compact is priced at being £430 in the uk so not quiet sure why its cheaper here in Ireland as usually we pay more for products then anywhere else ha
Anyways iam tempted to pull the trigger but for some confusing reviews i have read! Most reviews claim the resolution is poor and the screen is not as sharp as the competition, images look washed out and the camera is not as good as you would expect from a 20.7mp camera , color accuracy is way off and images look washed out etc and one review claimed the battery life was ok but not as good as sony claimed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- I'm sorry but any review that complains about the resolution not being sharp enough you can just ignore, because that reviewer clearly has no idea what he/she is talking about...
- Color calibration in terms of the screen can be changed to your liking, most/many people don't like the default color scheme so they did some adjustments.
- Camera really isn't as bad as they say... in some situations it's not as good as the rest, but it's NOT BAD (That's mostly in low light situations)
My tip for you:
Don't get your phone based on other people reviews, because they seem to affect you A LOT! There are more positive reviews than bad ones, but yet you seem to have picked out the bad ones.
Get the phone in your hands (in a shop), play with it and then decide.

The display for me is the single most important aspect of any mobile, and I've not bought any of the Z Series because of it (although the Z2 display did look good). For that reason I was extremely judgemental when first using the Z3C.
I don't think you have anything to worry about in terms of quality or sharpness. The contrast is great and the default calibration does indeed produce icy whites (which I personally prefer to warmer whites).
I haven't used the camera yet, but other things that have impressed me are the build quality - especially the finish of the plastic sides, the bezels, which looks smaller in person than the promo photos suggest, and the sheer speed of the device. It's incredibly snappy!
I'm more impressed than I thought I'd be
Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

@stormbeta, it's a 1/2.3 sensor

Cronis said:
Uhh they have the Nokia 1020 under the Iphone 5 and s4... that can't be right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with the 1020 is it's great at certain things, awful at others. It's a really inconsistent camera. DxO's ratings reward consistency - a camera that's pretty good at everything trumps one that's really good at some things. That's why the last few iPhones have scored so high - they do a decent job of most things.
In their element, the 1020 and 808 are unbeaten. Unfortunately they aren't that great as day-to-day snappers.

I'm very impressed by this device so far coming from a galaxy s3. The display is absolutely fine. Everyone that says otherwise is just a spec whore (xcuse my language). And you can even tweak the colors yourself!
And the best part: 720p with high end hardware means silky smooth operation in every situation. I have never held an android device this fast. Even turning the screen on is just instant. No lag whatsoever. I'd say this is even faster than iPhone.
Camera? I have no idea about quality but the dedicated button is more important for my use than quality. If I want to make quality pictures I don't use my smartphone anyway..
If you want a high end smartphone in a smaller form factor this is the best device out there. No doubt about it.

Camera produces cold photos - very disappointed! Can it be fixed? White balance?

I just bought this phone, and I'm extremely disappointed in the camera. My wife has a note4 which takes great photos, which I've been using pretty much every day as we recently had a child (our first). My main reason for buying a new phone was to always have a good camera on hand for taking photos of our son. I hate big phones though, hence why I didn't buy the note4.
Anyway, after buying the z3c, it turns out that I hate the photos it takes They are all completely lifeless and cold. When I take a photo with the note4, what I see on the screen is pretty much exactly what I see in real life. With the z3c I can clearly see the difference right away (and it's not just the phone screen). I've tried experimenting with settings in manual mode as well, but I'm not having much luck. Granted I'm not claiming to know much about these things. I don't care if it's not the highest resolution or the sharpest details (or not at this stage at least), I just want some colors that looks like what I'm seeing with my eyes. I've gone back to using the camera from my wifes phone again despite my own phone only being a week old, which is a bit sad.
Is there anything I can do about this? I feel like there should be a simple adjustment somewhere, but I can't find it. The colors on the screen were horrid as well, but I've adjusted those by using the "white balance" settings (where I significantly increased red and green while leaving blue at 0). Is there a similar setting for the camera or is there a different app I can download where I can make this adjustment?
I just want to be able to use my camera...
Here is an example. I took two photos, one after the other, using the z3c and the note4. He moved a little bit so they are not identical, but zoom in on his face and you'll see what I mean. One of the photos has got some color and in the other he looks pale and lifeless. The color in the first photo seem to match what I am seeing in real life (he is half asian, so somewhat yellow skin tone) It's a bit hard to show, but you'll just have to trust me that the photo which has more yellow in it is significantly more accurate. This is not even the worst photo either, this one is probably passable if looked at in isolation, but just one example I quickly snapped just now. They are all like this (or often worse) and it has led me to not wanting to use my camera at all.
EDIT: as a new user I was not able to add a link, but as this is just to dropbox, I hope it's OK that I present it like this. You will have to piece it together if you want to view it:
www dropbox com/sh/vb68vqquykxj13m/AAArXwsdSZHKdJCzz25Tu3Qxa?dl=0
Any suggestions on how I can fix this without having to manually post process the photos are much appreciated. I should note that I really love the phone in all other aspects so far, but the main reason I bought it was for the camera as mentioned.
EDIT: sorry, maybe this belongs in the questions forum. If so I apologize and feel free to move it.
EDIT: to clarify, I found what looks like a white balance setting, but it's only 4 preset modes. But maybe that is all we've got. I'll try and experiment with them and see if any produces better result than wb auto.
EDIT: those settings above seems to seriously mess with the colors, at least in current low light room I'm in. Despite loving the phone, I'm considering cutting my losses while it's still current and try to sell it In which case i would probably pick up a Samsung galaxy s6 instead, which should have an equivalent camera to the note 4. It's much bigger than I prefer though, and inflated price due to hype and being a new model as well

The s6 has a better camera in most conditions. That said the difference isnt that bad. On my screen both photos look very similar.
Anyway the usual thing, try in manual mode 8mp, slightly lower expo, multi, and adda tiny bit of clarity in google photos - seems to give best results on average

bilboa1 said:
The s6 has a better camera in most conditions. That said the difference isnt that bad. On my screen both photos look very similar.
Anyway the usual thing, try in manual mode 8mp, slightly lower expo, multi, and adda tiny bit of clarity in google photos - seems to give best results on average
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the best example, you probably have to zoom in on face to see the difference. I might try and take a better example photo, but basically I lose all yellow in his skin tone and all I get is white and red.
I'll try your suggestions as well. Thanks.

You'll see from my camera thread and others that the Z3 is simply a poor performing camera indoors. There's little you can do to fix it.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

PuffDaddy_d said:
You'll see from my camera thread and others that the Z3 is simply a poor performing camera indoors. There's little you can do to fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read your thread now, and it doesn't paint a very positive picture. I still don't understand why it's so bad though, especially since the hardware seems good. From my point of view, I would be OK if pictures are not sharp enough or not capturing as much details as they could, but the poor color replication is a deal breaker.
Do you know if there is any sign that they are working on improving the software? Maybe with the release of z4/z3+ they might release a software update applicable to z3 as well? I know I'm grasping at straws, but still. You'd think they'd try and fix it. If nothing else, it's embarrassing that all competitors are significantly better despite using sonys sensor. This should be their absolute strongest point, their ace card, and instead they are getting destroyed.

White balance is the key for my photos... Auto WB always produces unatractive photos. Cloudy, and sunny settings add some warmth to the photo.

tompab said:
I've read your thread now, and it doesn't paint a very positive picture. I still don't understand why it's so bad though, especially since the hardware seems good. From my point of view, I would be OK if pictures are not sharp enough or not capturing as much details as they could, but the poor color replication is a deal breaker.
Do you know if there is any sign that they are working on improving the software? Maybe with the release of z4/z3+ they might release a software update applicable to z3 as well? I know I'm grasping at straws, but still. You'd think they'd try and fix it. If nothing else, it's embarrassing that all competitors are significantly better despite using sonys sensor. This should be their absolute strongest point, their ace card, and instead they are getting destroyed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with you more. I read an article where someone managed to compare the display of the Z3 vs the Z3+ and noticed that the plus has a warmer tone. Probably still to early to know is the camera software has improved any though. Sadly, I've started to use filters on the shots that look too cold to help earn them up a bit... More of a workaround than a solution.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

tompab said:
I just bought this phone, and I'm extremely disappointed in the camera. My wife has a note4 which takes great photos, which I've been using pretty much every day as we recently had a child (our first). My main reason for buying a new phone was to always have a good camera on hand for taking photos of our son. I hate big phones though, hence why I didn't buy the note4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got a Z1c(not Z3c) and S6 but I think I can share you some ideas here. Sony tends to like cold WB while S6 produces warm WB. Indeed, they both got pros and cons in my experiences bcoz Samsung is also easy to produce over-warm coast and sometimes not real good, it is just too warm, though in your case I admit this time warm WB got real better result.
If you want a smaller phone, you can consider the upcoming S6 mini(SM-G9198) with 4.6" 720P, s808, 2GB ram, 16GB rom, NFC, 16MP rear camera, 5MP front camera. Sony focus is just all bad(actually the image quality isn't bad though you can't compete it with Note4/S6) and Samsung is like 10 times better when you talking about the speed and focus part.

TheEndHK said:
I've got a Z1c(not Z3c) and S6 but I think I can share you some ideas here. Sony tends to like cold WB while S6 produces warm WB. Indeed, they both got pros and cons in my experiences bcoz Samsung is also easy to produce over-warm coast and sometimes not real good, it is just too warm, though in your case I admit this time warm WB got real better result.
If you want a smaller phone, you can consider the upcoming S6 mini(SM-G9198) with 4.6" 720P, s808, 2GB ram, 16GB rom, NFC, 16MP rear camera, 5MP front camera. Sony focus is just all bad(actually the image quality isn't bad though you can't compete it with Note4/S6) and Samsung is like 10 times better when you talking about the speed and focus part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be very interested to see how that 16mp cam performs, if its anything like the S5 or S6 I may very well convert. Especially if they get the nicer build of the S6 in too, Just please no glass back.

S6 build also means glass back. I have no problems with glass. I'm not too fond of the diplay, Pentile matrix means less subpixels (=less sharpness) and effective resolution similar to qHD. It's clearly visible (rubbih harpness/dottiness) and just bad for the money.
PuffDaddy_d said:
I couldn't agree with you more. I read an article where someone managed to compare the display of the Z3 vs the Z3+ and noticed that the plus has a warmer tone. Probably still to early to know is the camera software has improved any though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Z3+ takes warmer pictures indeed but there's even more digital noise reduction:
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majaczos said:
S6 build also means glass back. I have no problems with glass. I'm not too fond of the diplay, Pentile matrix means less subpixels (=less sharpness) and effective resolution similar to qHD. It's clearly visible (rubbih harpness/dottiness) and just bad for the money.
Z3+ takes warmer pictures indeed but there's even more digital noise reduction:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, I can't even see the difference in color tone between these photos. At most, I see that the plus didn't focus properly in this shot.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

PuffDaddy_d said:
Honestly, I can't even see the difference in color tone between these photos. At most, I see that the plus didn't focus properly in this shot.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here... its splitting hairs to say there is any difference in color tone. That could easily be randomness with the Z3 being warm in the next shot.

Look at the concrete. It's much warmer. Another pictures (from gsmarena):
Z3:
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z3/camera/gsmarena_015.jpg
Z3+:
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z3plus/camera/gsmarena_102.jpg

majaczos said:
Look at the concrete. It's much warmer. Another pictures (from gsmarena):
Z3:
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z3/camera/gsmarena_015.jpg
Z3+:
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z3plus/camera/gsmarena_102.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, yeah, the concrete does look warmer with the plus, but these are very obvious. Though, I question why it appears that so much time passed between shots. The sky is clear in one photo but is cloudy in the next. Overcast conditions will affect the white balance as well. Still a bit too soon for me to judge.
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

Cronis said:
I will be very interested to see how that 16mp cam performs, if its anything like the S5 or S6 I may very well convert. Especially if they get the nicer build of the S6 in too, Just please no glass back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no much info yet so I can't tell about S6 Compact but we can make some safe guess here and probably quite close to the true specification.
1. Probably used the new ISOCell 16MP to save cost. We all know that S6 got two sensors which is Sony IMX240 and Samsung ISOCell. This time the ISOCell is improved and better than the one on S5, so it is a 2nd gen. It got better color during at low light while IMX240 got more details. On day time, both sensors are almost identical. Mine S6 got IMX240.
2. OIS is removed for cost.
3. Aperture down to f/2.2 or f/2.4 depending the price strategic
If Samsung willing to give it a f/2.2 then it is safe to say it is a killer for Z3c though Z3c will still own some advantages like waterproof and best battery life. Not sure about microSD card thing. Consider it got a powerful s808 so as a small flagship, very possible to own a f/2.2 aperture.
https://shopmeenova.appspot.com/st/p/mrg2.html
I use this otg to solve my storage problem on S6.

Aperture eans nothing without sensor's size. Z3 can have higher aperture because IMX220 one of the biggest sensors on the (mobile) market right now.
We know nothing about the S6 mini, SM-G9198 sounds like SM-G9098's replacement:
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/samsung-sm-g9098-1608

majaczos said:
Aperture eans nothing without sensor's size. Z3 can have higher aperture because IMX220 one of the biggest sensors on the (mobile) market right now.
We know nothing about the S6 mini, SM-G9198 sounds like SM-G9098's replacement:
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/samsung-sm-g9098-1608
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it is impossible to be the next G9098 bcoz it got only 3.7" size while G9198 is 4.6" with such powerful s808 cpu, they are in total different market segment.
Aperture is real meaningful in any size bcoz my One S(8MP 1/3.2") got f/2.0 so I know about it and Iphone 5s/6/6+ got only 8MP 1/3" f/2.2 but they are doing very well at low light too.

TheEndHK said:
I think it is impossible to be the next G9098 bcoz it got only 3.7" size while G9198 is 4.6" with such powerful s808 cpu, they are in total different market segment.
Aperture is real meaningful in any size bcoz my One S(8MP 1/3.2") got f/2.0 so I know about it and Iphone 5s/6/6+ got only 8MP 1/3" f/2.2 but they are doing very well at low light too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe they want to reduce bezels? Or make it bigger? SM-G9098 has very powerful CPU as well, actually it was the most powerful back in 2014..
They're ok in low light situations (partially thanks to decent image processing) but you can't trick physics.

majaczos said:
Maybe they want to reduce bezels? Or make it bigger? SM-G9098 has very powerful CPU as well, actually it was the most powerful back in 2014..
They're ok in low light situations (partially thanks to decent image processing) but you can't trick physics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
G9098 is 3.7" size while G9198 is 4.6", the different is big enough because there is no 4.6" size flip phone becoz when you put a 4.6" screen together with a physical keyboard, the phone will be very fat and large and customer will end up prefer to get a Note4/5 instead with similar size. But I like the good old day flip phone style, actually I want to see more coming out.

Thanks for all the help guys. Just thought I'd give an update if anyone is interested.
I still really dislike the z3c camera and was considering selling the phone and picking up a galaxy s6. I do however like the other aspects of the z3c, so I ended up buying a proper camera instead. I can use my wife's note4 for a quick snap if I don't have my camera nearby. It's a compromise, but I think it made more sense.

OPPO Find X5 Review: Part 2 - Camera, Battery

Intro​Welcome to Part 2 of my OPPO Find X5 review! In this part I will be covering the camera performance and battery of the device.
Table of contents​
Part 1: Build Quality & Design, Performance & Gaming, Display
Part 2: Camera, Battery (Currently reading)
Part 3: ColorOS Features
At the end of each part I will also include the conclusion of the part and the index for navigation.
Camera review​
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Using the Find X5’s camera has been a great time, especially with a wide array of features, Hasselblad co-development and the MariSilicon Neural Processing Unit.
Wide and ultrawide both have a 50MP sensor, while the Tele lens has 13MP. The front facing camera has a 32MP sensor.
View all of my sample photos: ​
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UmkNFFEq3G5QYY6S7
Over 100 photos!
​Selfie camera​Starting with the selfie front facing camera: built into the bionic display as a small holepunch in the top left corner.
The camera has been quite impressive with high resolution selfies that capture a lot of light and natural colours, thanks to the hasselblad tuning.
I did enjoy using portrait mode with the selfie cam a lot more than usual this time around. It has also been fun, and is pretty convincing with its bokeh effect. The corner detection did work well in my testing, even in low light, without using the night mode. What’s nice is that you can adjust the aperture, the amount of blur, directly while shooting.
If the light is too low, you can switch over to night mode, which is also available for selfies.
Main and ultrawide camera​Shooting with both wide and ultrawide has been a solid camera experience. Both lenses are sharp and allow for huge 50MP photos, when enabled. These are around 10-20Mb saved to the device and retain a lot of detail. While I wish the photos were a tad bit punchier without the AI scene detect, I do appreciate the more realistic colours, which can always be adjusted in editing later on.
Example of portrait mode:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QvsuLMrSxGjtudVw7
The main shooter also has a great amount of natural bokeh, thanks to its large sensor. This can be great for more dramatic close ups, food photography or pets. If you need more bokeh, you can switch the camera over to portrait mode and use the aperture slider to increase the blur. Getting things into focus was also always very solid, the camera generally always identified what I would have wanted in focus. There were only a very few times I had to tap a couple times to get the subject in focus.
Switching things over to the ultrawide camera, it has a 0.6x view, and what I really enjoy about the lens is that it keeps lines straight, where some cameras tend to warp the image. This allows for a quite unique ultrawide look and makes the lens much more versatile.
I did notice the colours were a bit different than the main shooter, being a bit more on the cool side but also sometimes warmer colour temperature. You can see this quite noticeable when comparing the photos I took of the same scene with the different lenses. Needless to say the photos did turn out still very good when looking at them individually.
The only downside of the camera I could find while testing some more difficult scenes such as backlit or fast moving was that the processing sometimes did encounter a sort of edge ghosting effect.
Although it only happens very rarely in some exceptional cases (I checked with the other ambassadors and they did not experience it yet) I found it still important to highlight, and hope it can be fixed in a future software update. Examples: Ghosting, Edge 1, Edge 2
Comparison against OnePlus 9 Pro:​My main phone of the last year was between the OnePlus 9 Pro and an iPhone. So I made sure to capture some comparisons between both the 9 Pro and the X5 as they both feature the hasselblad codevelopment.
What I could notice was that the OnePlus did brighten up the image more and did produce a more “punchy” looking photo. But also it generally turned out to be a bit more blurry on the OnePlus, especially when zooming in on text for example.
The X5 did a better job at retaining details, such as fabrics and text was very sharp. Especially when shooting in darker environments you could see much sharper details on text and a less grainy image but at the cost of less highlights.
The colours were a bit more natural, capturing the scene a bit better like I saw it in real life. I had a feeling the processing was toned down a bit.
Another thing that I noticed was that the X5 handled edge fringing much better than the 9 Pro, where things could easily get out of focus on the 9 Pro around the edge of subjects.
Samples (9 Pro vs. X5):
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mymu2gMureRDYt3C6
Night mode​The dedicated night mode utilises the NPU to process the image, retain highlights and reduce noise. The duration of how long a night mode photo takes to capture can vary from a second, all the way to 7s in my testing depending on the lighting situation. The results are really worth it and do speak for themselves.
What I really liked is how colours are kept, with a low noise and clear blacks. Also lights do have a good amount of brightness without being overpowering. Another favourite feature of mine is the long exposure, which takes some great shots without the need of a tripod.
Example long exposure
Video mode​Coming to the video aspect of the camera, which has always been a difficult part for most Android devices. In my opinion the main camera produces the best video footage, which is clear, has good stabilisation and only a small amount of crop factor. It allows for 4K capture up to 60fps.
If you need a large amount of stabilisation the camera app also has a mode called “Ultra-steady-mode”. This makes the video feel buttery smooth, and in some situations where you want that gimbal style footage this can be great, but does come with the downside of having quite a lot of crop factor.
Another feature is the video portrait mode, which allows for bokeh style video in 1080p. In my testing this effect has worked pretty well and has been able to track subjects well even in low light situations.
Example of portrait mode in video during low light:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/e6QoXVtJdrB3C5FBA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HzGt5dntHz8B2ARo7
Battery review​
Battery life in a day​The battery life has been very solid! After about a week of usage the battery has adapted to my usage and on average has always given me a full day of battery life lasting into the noon of the next day. The X5 also features reverse wireless charging, which can be great to top up wireless earbuds if they have a case that supports it.
After a day of photography, playing some games casually and watching youtube with general usage my screen on time resulted in 4:25h and 4% battery remaining. This is for me quite good, considering I had always enabled the full 120hz of the display and did keep it at a relatively high brightness setting.
Also thanks to the included SuperVOOC 80W charger, I never had to worry about needing to wait a long time during charges. Usually it was enough to top up my Find X5 within 15 min for an entire day if I was worried it might not last.
Charging speed​With the 80W charging speeds being insane (I never experienced a phone charge this fast other than the OnePlus 9 Pro) I went from 4% to 100% in just 30 min!
Conclusion Part 2​And with this I would like to conclude my second part of the review. Overall my camera tests have been really solid, I especially loved the colours the camera captured, and the large sensor allows for some really nice natural bokeh. Having a wide and ultra wide lens as primary sensors is a good combination, as they are super versatile. The zoom was lacking a bit, producing images that were still viewable but for my taste too blurry or processed. Battery life has been also quite solid. Especially considering I used the device always in 120Hz mode it easily did manage around 4.5h screen on time.
Continue reading​
Part 1: Build Quality & Design, Performance & Gaming, Display
Part 2: Currently reading
Part 3: ColorOS Features

Update: I have posted further photo samples for two photo-series, you can find them linked here:
Save the night: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/savethenight-night-photos-with-the-find-x5.4434553/
Stories from varied perspectives: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/stories-from-varied-perspectives-photos-with-the-find-x5.4438663/
Both series go a bit more in depth of specific camera modes, such as night mode photography or using different lenses. Hope you enjoy!

Oppo "brand ambassador"....jeez, you and 3 million others. Such neutral and unbiased reviews.

murrayalex said:
Oppo "brand ambassador"....jeez, you and 3 million others. Such neutral and unbiased reviews.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure if this is a criticism of my review or the programme, if there is anything I am more than happy to hear constructive feedback to also improve my reviews for the future. So please do let me know!
Also, I would like to mention again that this review is entirely my own opinion and with everything I have tested I am comparing it as if I purchased it as my own device. As an iPhone and OP9 Pro user, I had a very good baseline of flagships to compare to and also point out differences. Check my first part of the review for instance, especially in the speaker department.
When there are issues I am more than happy to bring them further to OPPO, as I have already done with bugs and camera issues I have encountered, to name a few.
After all the review should help you guys decide and get a better idea what the device is capable of Hope this clears things up.