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I'd like your impressions about the MIUI update system, which occurs every week instead of nightly build.
What do you think of it? Is it something that CyanogenMod should put in place ?
Personnaly : I think it is a good method for testing over time. This allows to test more thoroughly builds.
It would be one thing if each nightly was lovingly hand-constructed by a single man working tirelessly to ensure that every day we had a completely new, solid build to flash to our phones, but it's compiled and posted automatically. Commits go in, it's built, and it either works or it doesn't. There isn't any testing being done aside from install a nightly and ***** if it doesn't work.
How exactly would it change if it went to weeklies except there'd be a much larger batch of commits to sort through when something inevitably breaks? Instead of being able to narrow it down to one day's commits causing an issue, now you're looking through seven days' worth of commits to track it.
All that moving to an MIUI-like weekly schedule would do is spawn a jillion KANG threads where someone is compiling and posting the nightly builds but also throwing in future commits which will just muddy the waters when it comes to actually aiding in the development by pointing out bugs. Almost no one will stick to the official weekly builds since they don't care about stability- they just want features now- so the official thread will be graveyard. And now all the issues will be spread out among every KANG thread so you can't see them all in one place.
The only way an MIUI schedule would work is if there was actually dedicated testing on each weekly release detailing what's fixed, what's broken, and what's changed by the developers/device managers in CM since that would be the only incentive to staying on the official weekly rather than the daily KANGs. Obviously this would be a lot more work on already-busy people that currently don't have to worry about it as the process is automated. They wouldn't do it (and I wouldn't blame them).
@yojlik thanks for reply. lot of thing i hadn't think about.
yojlik said:
It would be one thing if each nightly was lovingly hand-constructed by a single man working tirelessly to ensure that every day we had a completely new, solid build to flash to our phones, but it's compiled and posted automatically. Commits go in, it's built, and it either works or it doesn't. There isn't any testing being done aside from install a nightly and ***** if it doesn't work.
How exactly would it change if it went to weeklies except there'd be a much larger batch of commits to sort through when something inevitably breaks? Instead of being able to narrow it down to one day's commits causing an issue, now you're looking through seven days' worth of commits to track it.
All that moving to an MIUI-like weekly schedule would do is spawn a jillion KANG threads where someone is compiling and posting the nightly builds but also throwing in future commits which will just muddy the waters when it comes to actually aiding in the development by pointing out bugs. Almost no one will stick to the official weekly builds since they don't care about stability- they just want features now- so the official thread will be graveyard. And now all the issues will be spread out among every KANG thread so you can't see them all in one place.
The only way an MIUI schedule would work is if there was actually dedicated testing on each weekly release detailing what's fixed, what's broken, and what's changed by the developers/device managers in CM since that would be the only incentive to staying on the official weekly rather than the daily KANGs. Obviously this would be a lot more work on already-busy people that currently don't have to worry about it as the process is automated. They wouldn't do it (and I wouldn't blame them).
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I fully agree with what you say.
Nightly builds and test build are two different things. Probably it would be usefull to have beta builds with more frequent updates than RC's but that depends only on the amount of spare time the developers have.
I could see keeping nightlies the way they are. Just an automated build for those that want to try it. But it could be a good thing to have weekly builds if you are looking to possibly have more "stable" builds (or rather, not as eratic as the nightlies) available for the long periods of time between stable releases and/or release candidates. I could also see this a good way to minimize the freakouts that happen with some people when the run the nightlies. But, and there always is a but, that also would create more work for someone, so I guess that would depend on whether or not it is worth it and/or whether someone wants to take the time for it.
But I do feel that nightlies should stay in place. They become invaluable in trying to get a solid build and to take care of regressions quickly.
bassmadrigal said:
I could see keeping nightlies the way they are. Just an automated build for those that want to try it. But it could be a good thing to have weekly builds if you are looking to possibly have more "stable" builds (or rather, not as eratic as the nightlies) available for the long periods of time between stable releases and/or release candidates. I could also see this a good way to minimize the freakouts that happen with some people when the run the nightlies. But, and there always is a but, that also would create more work for someone, so I guess that would depend on whether or not it is worth it and/or whether someone wants to take the time for it.
But I do feel that nightlies should stay in place. They become invaluable in trying to get a solid build and to take care of regressions quickly.
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To address your first point, it would be nice to have a tested build for weekly release but you rightly point out the flaw: someone's going to have to test and document it. That's simply not going to happen.
Also it's kind of mutually exclusive- you either have weeklies and don't have nightlies, or you have it the way it is. Otherwise why not just say that every Wednesday's release is the "weekly" release and all the others are nightly? The alternative to this is to say that "no, the weekly release would be a more stable branch and the nightlies would be automatic" but that's the exact system we have now with RCs and Stable/Final versions the only difference being mandating a weekly schedule and I think we know how Cyanogen feels about release schedules. What would happen in practice is that week after week the "weekly" branch would remain the same until a point release happens. Which is exactly what happens now.
The reason it works for MIUI and won't for CM is because MIUI is closed source and CM is open. With MIUI you have to wait for the weekly release, there's no alternative. That can't be the case for CM since anyone can compile it whenever, and they would do it nightly if the present nightlies were to go away.
Obviously this is all a mental exercise but the fact remains that there's no practical way to implement a weekly schedule nor any benefit over the current system for doing so.
Perhaps both?
"Bleeding Edge" nightly for those who need their fix
Plus a more "Stable" yet regular build, could be weekly, fortnightly or even monthly.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Nightlies are tiring to keep up with, and where i am at, I suffer alot having to download regularly the whole 83MB to install on my phone. Having regular semi stable releases for new features is a very important.
What i usually do, is read the nightlies thread looking for comments about any problems being faced in the latest nightly, and based on those comments I decide wether or not i download the nightly.
It's kinda the same concept since the people installing the nightlies are acting as the testing team, but not in a dedicated professional kinda way.
I do the same thing--look for changes that impact me.
I don't flash every nightly, and not even every MIUI weekly
As we all know--big changes to CM7 are not coming as fast as they use too and nightly flashing almost seems not necessary--except for the addicts--
I was one, but now reformed--
It's fine the way it is, like rugmankc said you don't have to flash every nightly but it's good to have. I use to flash every nightly to but not anymore. Only if it's worth it.
Plus if there's something wrong with a new build, a fix is usually only a nightly away as opposed to a week away.
baseballfanz said:
It's fine the way it is, like rugmankc said you don't have to flash every nightly but it's good to have. I use to flash every nightly to but not anymore. Only if it's worth it.
Plus if there's something wrong with a new build, a fix is usually only a nightly away as opposed to a week away.
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I agree totally ....
Although a monthly would be nice at least some sort of stable build for all those who don't flash nightlies with the side effect of having lots of people performing some sort of a "long time" test.
At least certain builds should could be tested a little longer than 24 hours for a some kind of quality feedback if you can say so.
As most of the others here I check the changelogs for each of my devices and decide whether to flash or not.
Kelvino9 said:
Although a monthly would be nice at least some sort of stable build for all those who don't flash nightlies with the side effect of having lots of people performing some sort of a "long time" test.
At least certain builds should could be tested a little longer than 24 hours for a some kind of quality feedback if you can say so.
As most of the others here I check the changelogs for each of my devices and decide whether to flash or not.
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Nightly builds are NOT tested at all. Individual commits are but not the build. Only RC builds are tested by respective maintainers.
temasek said:
Nightly builds are NOT tested at all. Individual commits are but not the build. Only RC builds are tested by respective maintainers.
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I'm aware of that, what I was thinking of is that there should be a more frequent RC or beta release as the gap between official releases got bigger.
The last stable release was released in May and the latest RC by the end of June.
For flashaholics like us nightlies are totally fine, but for the more casual user converting to CyanogenMod a regularly updated release would be nice.
Hello guys. First of all I'd like to say I'm a big of of the work of yours. I have PAC on every device I own.
Anyways, I'd like to ask you why don't you make stables weekly, in any amount of time with some release that you know that will not bug or cause harm.
I mean, I know you guys do your best in every single nightly, but me as a every day normal user, I feel skeptical about updating the ROM because sometimes I forgot to backup something or I ended up upgrading while I'm commuting and the nightly of the day comes full of bugs and I end losoing some important file.
I'm sorry, I guess you guys have heard this question before, but I have to suggest you that.
Thing is, there is simply no way that PAC can extensively test the rom on all 100+ devices every week to put out a "stable" build that guarantees to be bug free. One suggestion for people like you who want stable builds could be to just flash the rom once a week or once every other week. The posts on the thread for your device should give you a pretty good indicator as to any new bugs on the builds.
The release builds for the Nexus 4 for example are ony release canditates, milestones, tries and they are pretty old. I know, that it's way too much work to build weekly stables for all devices, but are there any plans to create stable release builds of PACman with Android 4.3 for any devices?
I love this Rom and your work and understand, that it's not easy to merge 3 Roms together. But the bugs appearing are a little annoying and sometimes make the device almost unusable (touchscreen doesn't respond anymore, no inputs possible, need to force shutdown and cold reboot).
I would love to get a more stable build of PACman.
Hello XDA'ers.
First let me say that this will be somewhat a post about frustration with Android devices, but it's not meant to be misconstrued as disrespect to those who contribute to the development community. I know you guys work hard at this and I do appreciate your efforts. Your ROMs have been lightyears ahead of what Samsung stock offers.
But with that said, here's my question: is there a single rom that will work properly, is stable, wont crash, etc? I have been through over a dozen different ROMs across two devices, and there's always been something small or large wrong with them. The one I'm using on my i9505 right now is by Antares One and yesterday it decided to show me three or four notifications that "Google Play Services has stopped working" per minute and today none of my SMS messages are being sent.
But it's not limited that, rather, there's always been something or other that the Android ROM didn't like, or I had to find a workaround, or had to completely reflash with something else.
Has anyone experienced this? Why can't Android just be a stable OS? I'm really thinking about switching to a Microsoft phone for my next upgrade.
DJ
Even stock roms have their problems and stability issues. If you look through the Q&A section you'll find several threads about stock rom issues.
It's not Android's fault entirely. It has to do with the phone too. Roms on my device are always stable. Yet another user running the same rom on the same device has various problems.
I am currently running AOSP Marshmallow by the JDCTeam, no problems. Bluetooth works, wifi works, mobile data works, battery is fine (I went to sleep with 70% left and when I woke up 8 hours later it still was at 70%).
the problem here is the impossible fix of many problems by developers..why? many developers are not soft engineer and maybe they dont even know how to program just know how to port and replace files and thats all..a big team for every single phone are just impossible..
so a stable rom will never come..just find the one "flawless" and keep it..
for me the stable roms are not cm..or aosp..stock rom debloated are very stable..like s6 port to s4 and debloated..is a good one
Use stock ROM for stability. Although they are not fast as AOSP but they dont exhibit strange behaviors.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
DJRepresent said:
Hello XDA'ers.
First let me say that this will be somewhat a post about frustration with Android devices, but it's not meant to be misconstrued as disrespect to those who contribute to the development community. I know you guys work hard at this and I do appreciate your efforts. Your ROMs have been lightyears ahead of what Samsung stock offers.
But with that said, here's my question: is there a single rom that will work properly, is stable, wont crash, etc? I have been through over a dozen different ROMs across two devices, and there's always been something small or large wrong with them. The one I'm using on my i9505 right now is by Antares One and yesterday it decided to show me three or four notifications that "Google Play Services has stopped working" per minute and today none of my SMS messages are being sent.
But it's not limited that, rather, there's always been something or other that the Android ROM didn't like, or I had to find a workaround, or had to completely reflash with something else.
Has anyone experienced this? Why can't Android just be a stable OS? I'm really thinking about switching to a Microsoft phone for my next upgrade.
DJ
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Like GDReaper said in his post. For us those roms run perfectly fine. Sure there are bugs, but most issues are known before you decide to flash the rom. Besides the obvious bugs that are present there is also the user. A lot of problems are caused by inexperienced users. They don't know how to set up their phone, they flash shady apps, or use modifycations of their own (Xposed for example).
Then they come to XDA and provide no usefull information at all. For example:
"The one I'm using on my i9505 right now is by Antares One and yesterday it decided to show me three or four notifications that "Google Play Services has stopped working" per minute and today none of my SMS messages are being sent."
- For example you say you use a rom by Antares One. This gives us no information at all. He has made like 4 roms for the I9505. What build? What android version?
- Google Play Services has stopped working. What gapps package did you use?
- Have you made modifications of your own?
- Are you running an up to date modem and bootloader?
Also keep in mind that if you use for example a MM build that it's a work in progress. It has to be coded from scratch. So surely there will be some bugs, but you will get the latest Android version in return with all the latest security patches.
This post is not intended to flame you in any way. I think most of your frustration comes from the expectations that you have. You cannot expect that a CM based rom will work flawlessly out of the box. It's a work in progress.
This is a very good observation. I was thinking to write this kind of post in december.
A lot of Roms are abandoned or never pass nightly and you have to flash and flash again. Then suddenly all people jump to MM as if the world is ending tomorow. It is hard to find a good rom starting with Lollipop. I see a lot of people crying after KK stability and downgrading.
People are in a hurry, devs too, to flash the newest rom.
I prefer stability. A phone is not a camera, nor a battle field for flashing.. My 2C opinion.
I like custom roms, but sadly i need stability before customisation or performance. The only rom that delivers in this is Stock TW 4.4.2. If you want to go back to Kitkat use the latest firmware for your region.
It's very hard to deliver stability with a custom rom as stability is achieved through manpower, time and resources, which can't be provided through just donations.
Roms are abandoned because people move to other devices at some point.
And you can't stay on the same android version. Most of the roms are built from other sources. Like Resurrection Remix. The developer is wescrip, and he owns an LG device. The version for our S4 is built from his sources by TJSteveMX. If wescrip switched to Marshmallow it's pretty much impossible to for TJ to keep it Lollipop.
DJRepresent said:
(...)Why can't Android just be a stable OS? I'm really thinking about switching to a Microsoft phone for my next upgrade.DJ
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This is a more general answer:
In the Android world there is a huge diversity of devices (--> hardware) and Android versions. The next thing, you have to keep in mind: A lot of vendors and telecommunications companies include their modifications into the ROMs.
I think that due to the availability of new devices each year and all these modifications, which also include the full stop in official updates after 6 months after the release of the device, will lead to unstable (official) ROMs.
The community then tries to update the devices in their spare time to the newest versions. But they have to figure out some special settings and modifications per device. And this is a long way as it seems.
In my opinion, you should not blame the community and the developers. I think, it is more Google or the vendors that can´t agree on a good way to distribute newer Android versions (e.g. a new API layer between OS and Hardware).
Ok so cyanogenmod.org got all moto devices listed and they said moto g series getting cyanogen 14.1 but moto g4 plus not anywhere in cyanogenmod.org list:crying:
I hate unofficial buggy ROMs
mayank.bhola1 said:
Ok so cyanogenmod.org got all moto devices listed and they said moto g series getting cyanogen 14.1 but moto g4 plus not anywhere in cyanogenmod.org list:crying:
I hate unofficial buggy ROMs
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Official roms are buggy too if you ever tried nightlies or snapshots. And we will see, maybe official will come until cm statet it comes not
They didn't say all G family, they post this list:
falcon, peregrine, titan, thea, osprey
They are 1st 2nd and 3rd Gen.
FlaminisRex said:
They didn't say all G family, they post this list:
falcon, peregrine, titan, thea, osprey
They are 1st 2nd and 3rd Gen.
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If it's not in the list, it will be added, thats possible.
@mayank.bhola1:
No need to scared and say it will never come. If you didn't have a proof, don't open such scaring threads "no official cyanogen 14.1" that's really annoying to others, because some people trust it and won't buy the device maybe(just an opinion)
I avoid anything cm based. Always worse on battery life.
trsix said:
I avoid anything cm based. Always worse on battery life.
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That's not true that all cm based has "always" worse battery life. On my galaxy's I got more battery compared to Samsung roms(official or mod) and also on my other devices cm gives me more battery life then stock, even to aosp! Maybe you encountered bad experiences, but it totally depends on the device tree, drivers, modem, source, etc etc... And the knowledge of the dev :angel:
My experience with CM was that a lot of the features added where useless to me and they just added battery drain and new bugs. And when a bug was fixed in a nightly, there was a good chance that another two bugs would pop up.
Not cool if you really need to use your phone as a phone. Maybe OK if you don't have a job or you stay at home all the time.
SoNic67 said:
My experience with CM was that a lot of the features added where useless to me and they just added battery drain and new bugs. And when a bug was fixed in a nightly, there was a good chance that another two bugs would pop up.
Not cool if you really need to use your phone as a phone. Maybe OK if you don't have a job or you stay at home all the time.
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So you concluding that we must stick to stock ROMs ??
Depends of what you do for living... and if need a reliable phone line for that.
SoNic67 said:
Depends of what you do for living... and if need a reliable phone line for that.
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I knew a device which stock cos rom is the hell on earth(random reboots, bugs, freezes) compared to cm and nearly all people saying wow after flashing cm instead of staying on stock. CM is widely available for devices and always a chance to get more out of your device when the manufacturer gives up the development after launching the device or won't fix bugs in acceptable time.
Not the case here. Moto firmware is stable and not bloated.
CM is best after OEM leaves device support. I had Asus Zenfone 5 earlier but no official CM so developers made unofficial one but Asus had serious issues with bootloader unlock as no developer was able to resolve screen freeze issues. So running custom ROMs on that device was hell bad.
If you think making cm and make it official is easy then do it urself, we really want to see. Things are not same as 1st,2nd &3rd. The chipset are way different than the previous gen. So stop posting useless things. Dont open thread for you own satisfaction.
Just my $0.02 : The premise behind getting a custom ROM is that it's for those who have an above average idea about OS, customizations, working on a system level and such.
The whole argument about stability, and what one does for their living is a bit too far fetched in context of using a device that is dependable. Stock ROMs are made by OEMs keeping a novice end-user in view, who may or may not have sufficient time, knowledge or inclination of going beyond what the device came shipped with.
Custom ROMs and development is undertaken almost completely as a voluntary exercise by the devs, mostly on cost of their own resources and go far as to offer their work off forum threads which they'd personally support. Those flashing and modding devices are ones testing the work undertaken by devs, and even after a ROM gets official status, work on development continues with feedback from users and updating security, porting features from other devices, expanding customization et al.
Battery use, smoothness of UI, connectivity, stability, obviously are essential to one's experience of using their phone, but are highly dependent on how well one's put to use the abilities of their custom ROM, apart from what applications or settings one's gotten on, and that would come about only with experimenting, learning and keeping oneself updated with their device's software.
Stock ROMs, barring the few odd ones which run stock Android are almost always crammed with bloatware, uncustomizable UI/features and locked in to a mesh of regulatory compliances, OEM/vendor/third party interests and above all marketing the device as a product - which means you're good to go for just about as long as the OEM cares, and that isn't usually long enough given they'd obviously be focused on selling newer products.
So, it's just that mileage may vary but if you're willing to stick around to learn and experiment, customizing is the only way to truly own your phone.
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using XDA Labs
Frances91 said:
...
Stock ROMs, barring the few odd ones which run stock Android are almost always crammed with bloatware, uncustomizable UI/features and locked in to a mesh of regulatory compliances, OEM/vendor/third party interests and above all marketing the device as a product - which means you're good to go for just about as long as the OEM cares, and that isn't usually long enough given they'd obviously be focused on selling newer products.
So, it's just that mileage may vary but if you're willing to stick around to learn and experiment, customizing is the only way to truly own your phone.
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using XDA Labs
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I think the G4 is close to AOSP. Using Xposed you can get many fancy features found in custom roms. GravityBox gives you much of what CM offers.
Security features make it much more difficult to customize a phone. Pay by phone, i.e. "Wallet" will become important.
Custom roms are used more now for keeping old phones current. Not that much happening with new phones. Look at CyanogenMod https://download.cyanogenmod.org/ to view this.
king200 said:
I think the G4 is close to AOSP. Using Xposed you can get many fancy features found in custom roms. GravityBox gives you much of what CM offers.
Security features make it much more difficult to customize a phone. Pay by phone, i.e. "Wallet" will become important.
Custom roms are used more now for keeping old phones current. Not that much happening with new phones. Look at CyanogenMod https://download.cyanogenmod.org/ to view this.
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If you're considering using Xposed for the 'fancy features' and use wallet, and yet vouch for stock Roms I'm not sure what you're on to. You'd need for more mods running on a stock ROM which would anyways take months or even years to get updated to run latest Android versions. Some times you'd just stick around with frequent updates which are still two SDK versions behind the current official release, basically cycling through bloat, partner apps and constant rooting, modding to just keep your phone worth it's use.
As for new phones, it takes a fair amount of time, effort and understanding to access available sources and build a device tree from which custom ROMs are built.
Besides, not many users, unless they've specifically bought the new device to work on development, adopt customization till about several months after their purchase. As for CyanogenMod site they list the official ROMs, which are painstakingly built after months of testing. What you see on there are mostly devices which are either usually a year old or are stock Android - both being fitting scenarios for system level modifications to drive both performance and customization. You'd be hard pressed to find Android OEMs updating devices or even offering security patches for long.
Also, do remember MIUI, Oxygen and several other OEM ROMs that run across some of the most successful phones evolved from the custom ROMs community development.
And yeah, there's the custom kernels as well which almost always need a custom ROM.
Unless you've hit upon a groundbreaking counter claim to all the benefit of custom ROMs you would be among a tiny minority of informed users who ascribe to that idea. I would really like to benefit from what you can share about it, I am sure I can hit up the devs in my subscribed threads and help them make better decision with their time and efforts.
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using XDA Labs
I'd love to get some totally un-biased views here, including pros and cons. This will probably also help others given the current circumstances and wading through old threads containing up to 4000 posts is a real PIA. Current info condensed into one new thread would be great and not introduce clutter in the ROM threads.
Given that even if we get Oreo, there will most likely be no further official updates, just wondering, from all of you who have used many ROMs, what is an honest view of which ROMs are nearly bug free? Are any bug free? For me stuff like call and camera issues are a total deal breaker. I use my phone for personal and work, including interstate and minor overseas travel. Not going to even install any ROM that is compromised in some way.
I put OmniROM MM on my Oppo Find 7 and that was fantastic. It even got updated to Nougat and I think still has updates so I reset it to a non rooted, stock (Omni) state and passed it on to my eldest daughter. It's being enjoyed and well used still.
I'd really like to get that kind of service life from my Axon 7 as it is a very good phone still.
I reccomend Oreo AEX,although i heard that dualsim is not currently working
Just like asking "what are the best headphones?", or "what are the best speakers?", the only real way to tell how well a certain ROM will work for YOU on YOUR PHONE is to try it. Even between phones of the exact same model, there will always be different experiences across users. Backup, wipe, flash & see if the features/performance you find are what work for you.
Well that won't be happening. I use it for work. Can't be flashing it all the time. Just needs to work and leave it alone.
RobboW said:
Well that won't be happening. I use it for work. Can't be flashing it all the time. Just needs to work and leave it alone.
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I'd use raystef's stock based roms then, check them out.
Most are nougat, one is oreo beta, pick your poison.
I've had really good experiences with Official lineageOS. It has been a seamless process without any hitches. I'm personally waiting for the official release of lineageOS 15.1 (if and when it comes out). I've installed lineage on various devices and have been super happy with all of them. My Moto G Titan feels like a new phone after I've installed it.
Victor13f said:
I've had really good experiences with Official lineageOS. It has been a seamless process without any hitches. I'm personally waiting for the official release of lineageOS 15.1 (if and when it comes out). I've installed lineage on various devices and have been super happy with all of them. My Moto G Titan feels like a new phone after I've installed it.
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It's very device specific though. Sometimes a custom ROM (such as LOS, OMNI etc) will work well on one type of phone and be buggy on a different one. Not all phones work the same on them and I think the Axon 7 is one of those that ends up with buggy ROMs. The camera and DAC are complications that can be hard to get running well, also dual SIM can be an issue and I use it all.
If it's a choice between custom with bugs or stay on stock Nougat I would stay stock.
RobboW said:
If it's a choice between custom with bugs or stay on stock Nougat I would stay stock.
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The feedback on LOS doesn't seem to be too bad and I do understand that since I am also still stock but the problem is that the stock ROM is filled with bugs aswell. The screen brightness bug I get sometimes, the call bug, my Google play store crashes often, my GPS doesn't work properly etc etc. Those are all bugs the stock ROM itself has.