Database Users

Is rapid Upgrades killing Android Development?

Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.

socos25 said:
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
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With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:

All good points, and I would have to say I agree with you, especially with the shame that developers sometimes are driven away by lazy users.
mxmr said:
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
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I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.

mysongranhills said:
I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
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To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.

arikdahn said:
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
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I just recently got off heavily modded stock and flashed Super S4 and so far it is awesome. Ktoonz's Kernel is baked in and after using recommended recovery to flash I've had no problems. It isn't heavily modded (mostly other mods baked in and some init.d tweaks) but is fast and stable and is one of the very few TW roms I'd recommend.
When I was on HTC Inspire 4G, There were easily 10 Roms (ASOP and Sense) suitable for a daily driver. For the S4 I'd be hard pressed to find 3 stable usable TW roms at a time.
I think android as a platform is changing a lot philosophically, as well. Older custom roms used to be a must have and were the main reason most users wanted root. Now everything is much more framework centric. Now root is used to add functionality through Xposed framework modules,or audio mods like Viper. Previously each and every mod had to be rom specific.

[Q] What Happened to this phone?

Let's be honest to ourselves here guys, out beloved Moto X Style was officially released in September which means this phone has now been out for at least 3 months and while all the effort that has since been put in this devices by key developers and people from day 1 up till now is very much appreciated and will continue to be appreciated, the development of this device compared to most flagships has been slow motion.
I am just trying to understand what the hell went wrong with this phone that made it end up with such super slow motion development, as when I originally bought the device I was thinking this phone would be at least in the top 20 most active phones on XDA development wise.
It had so much going for it, easy root, easy unlockable bootloader, a pretty much almost complete stock version of android, kernel sources released and motorolas good track record of updating their flagship phones in a timely manner and good hardware to accompany the great bloatware free stock software and a cheap price compared to some other flagships from other companies such as Samsung and Sony
With all this in mind I thought developers would flock to this device and we would have a massive development forum with loads of options between custom roms, mods, themes and other tweaks etc
But this is far from the case and I know the Nexus 6P being released probably had something to do with it, Still this should have been at least in top 20
At first I thought when Android 6.0 MM will be released development will increase then we needed the kernel sources as that was apparently not enough, then we had kernel sources but apart from 1 or 2 roms showing up being in alpha stages nothings changed too much.
This is such a disappointment to say the least.
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?

djsynth said:
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?
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I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.

When i had the one plus one there were so many roms that was a brain storm... I prefer some and reliable roms than a plethora where you get confused!!!

2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
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4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
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IMO you hit the nail on the head. I love this phone. I had the MXPE 2014 as well, was not a fan. Also owned the original, Loved it.
This MXPE has been great in imo, the lack of development has not been disappointing to me. The stock rom is really pretty good, there are minor tweaks that can be done but most can do these on their own.
I used to be a flash-aholic, but like @GretaLewd has stated...custom roms tend to break things. I'm more in favor of kernel development. But how many different kernels can you have? One way or another they'll be the same.
I also own a Nexus 6P, but my MXPE is my go to device.
I see users complaining about this phone constantly, I really don't think it matters what phone you put in the hands of those users...they would still find fault and complain.
Motorola and Lenovo did good by this device, I just hope they keep up with incrementals for a while.

Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Good thread. Would love to hear more thoughts
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Ordered the device today. Hope slow development doesn't disappoint me on this device, as others have stated...

I have been using this device for 2 months now. I am happy with it an didn't face a single issue. I can do a little bit tweaking myself using Xposed.
So far the slow development doesn't bother me.

Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.

chrisund123 said:
Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.
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That's a good way to approach Android phones I suppose but I believe
it's still nice to buy a phone that's great out of the box and good development wise, usually flagships tend to have good development and then the mid range and low end phones tend to get smaller developments but I guess there's an exception to everything.

patt2k said:
Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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I doubt that's the reason since 64 Bit has been the standard since Lollipop and pretty much all the flagships have a 64bit cpu since the beggining of 2015 but that doesn't stop other development forums from flourishing.

GretaLewd said:
I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.
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Thank you for your break down on your thoughts of the subject and I must admit you've mention some very valid points here especially Point 1,2 and 5 but I think out of all of these its Point 1 and 2 that are the most significant, I suppose Motorola have a really small market share explains the lack of adoption between developers when comparing to some of the more prominent manufacturers such as samsung.
and The Android Stock OS has improved significantly within the past couple of years adding some new features that previously people had to root their phones to acomplish such as full app permission controls and backing up app data which google does for you now.

You need to follow development before buying a device these days. i.e. always wait at least 1-2 months. If you follow the development forums you would get an idea if developers are interested in said device or not. I for one, bought it right after I found out that AICP (CM12) rom was being developed. I was interested in running CM13 instead of other AOSP variations. And before I got the device the first (almost daily driver) builds were already uploaded.

Once cm is solid quite a few roms will pop up. Won't be long now.

Official MM has only been out for our phone for a little over a month. give it some time it may pick up. either way it's still an awesome phone out the box... and as stated above, once CM13 is stable im sure we'll see some of the other custom ROMs that are based off it.

GretaLewd said:
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
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This is a great point, but I'd like to add that this is especially applicable to our MXPE. We're really close to stock as it is, so there's little motivation to go ROM to debloat like there is on Samsung, LG, and similar phones. On the flip side, we have a lot of really neat features (active display, approach, accelerator gestures, voice controls) that we would lose if we went ROM.
For me, these two points combine, leaving me with little motivation to ROM my phone, especially since I can could get most of the advantages of CyanogenMod with something like GravityBox, which will allow me to keep the Motorola features (I'm currently unrooted because of the warranty, but I'll be rooted in the future for sure) . Of course, these are my own personal opinions, but I suspect that they reflect at least some of the mindset of this community.

I agree with others, that custom roms are often more trouble than they're worth. The only reason to use them these days is if your device isn't going to be updated to the latest version of Android.

Ever since moto introduced 99% stock android + moto display, roms have been entirely unnecessary for me. I used to rom my phones to gain greater flexibility + customizability. Now that I have stock android + Xposed, I doubt I will ever flash another custom rom again.

I'm still waiting for custom super roms that will make this device best in the market. Why can we have a rom with 1080p display, tweak kernel with better control for heating issue for overall battery life and speed?
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The biggest issue is that developers don't support devices they don't own. With the launch of the nexus 6 (not the 6p) most developers got it and had no need to update to a y newer devices.
Also to the comment that all flag ships are 64 bit this is not the case. If you look the most popular devices as far as developers are concerned are non 64 bit.
Also as android matures you will see less and less roms. As it will be come harder. There are very few real development teams. Most are just kitchen sink roms. A base with tons of cherry picks and a new name. Nothing even worth looking at twice. But more developers are closing up the source of their projects because of these types of roms.
To be honest most users have no point in flashing roms. Only those that like the development side of it will continue to mod roms and flash things.

Very Less DEVS

If i knew that this phone pixel xl has a very few ROMs and MODs i wouldn't really buy it, i prefer oneplus phones... it's just disappointing

driss.sadok said:
If i knew that this phone pixel xl has a very few ROMs and MODs i wouldn't really buy it, i prefer oneplus phones... it's just disappointing
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7.x seems like it was a real challenge for developers with the a/b partitions etc. Hoping the 8 treble improvements will help that situation out. The Sony theming engine already has helped me via substratum.
Still I'm thinking the stock room hasn't given me any reason to move. In general the deviations from AOSP I like.
But yes, sure isn't a Nexus 5.

I think it's down to the price. I see no reason to buy this to Dev on over any other device Pixel just isn't value for money and nowhere near as popular as some of the other devices out there

People griping about "Very Less DEVS" certainly won't improve the situation. Thread reported to mods. If you want to complain, at least use the right forum.

I'd rather have "very less" stable quality software rather than the trash I see in some of the custom roms.

Android has matured a significant amount since the EZroot days of the Droid 1 days to the point where the OS already comes from factory with the customization that people used custom ROMs for.
That, plus the frequency of monthly updates and the need for the rom developer to keep up with the monthy updates PLUS incorporating new ways to circumvent the safetynet check has made modifying less sought after.
I'm pretty sure the majority of people people that rooted and ran ROMs were for the purpose of increasing functionality and not solely for the purpose of saying "I modified my phone".
Placebo init.d scripts and build.prop days flooded the "developer" community for some time until people caught up with it. If a company could incorporate ways to increase speed and battery life without losing functionality, wouldn't you think they would do it so they can have an edge against their competition?
So I ask, what are you looking for in a custom rom that isn't available right now?

ChongoDroid said:
I'd rather have "very less" stable quality software rather than the trash I see in some of the custom roms.
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Have to agree. I am running rooted stock and have all the mods I need with great battery life. I get the need for some people wanting to run custom roms for missing options from the stock rom, but with custom roms also comes with bugs.

Yea when I originally purchased this last year I figured the dev community would be huge. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the awesome ROMs we have just thought it would be a bigger scene. Seeing as how the phone is very expensive and if you want an unlocked bootloader you have to buy it through Google it makes sense (yes some Verizon models could be unlocked before updating). In general I still love the phone and it's by far better than anything I've had before. I don't upgrade phones often because I always wait for very good deals (Pixel for $140 new) so I'll likely have this for years.

ins5736 said:
People griping about "Very Less DEVS" certainly won't improve the situation. Thread reported to mods. If you want to complain, at least use the right forum.
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THANK U but i think this forum is the discussion too, so it's the right place to complain.. i wasn't complaining only for mods, roms too ... i think u get my point

scottjal said:
7.x seems like it was a real challenge for developers with the a/b partitions etc. Hoping the 8 treble improvements will help that situation out. The Sony theming engine already has helped me via substratum.
Still I'm thinking the stock room hasn't given me any reason to move. In general the deviations from AOSP I like.
But yes, sure isn't a Nexus 5.
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i have substratum and i am always on swiftblack, i'm getting bored so can u please link the sony one ? hahahaha i think our phone is only limited in stock system.

richii0207 said:
Android has matured a significant amount since the EZroot days of the Droid 1 days to the point where the OS already comes from factory with the customization that people used custom ROMs for.
That, plus the frequency of monthly updates and the need for the rom developer to keep up with the monthy updates PLUS incorporating new ways to circumvent the safetynet check has made modifying less sought after.
I'm pretty sure the majority of people people that rooted and ran ROMs were for the purpose of increasing functionality and not solely for the purpose of saying "I modified my phone".
Placebo init.d scripts and build.prop days flooded the "developer" community for some time until people caught up with it. If a company could incorporate ways to increase speed and battery life without losing functionality, wouldn't you think they would do it so they can have an edge against their competition?
So I ask, what are you looking for in a custom rom that isn't available right now?
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well i agree with u, and concerning your question i would say that if we can have a different room rather than the stock i would be happy, i used to have, nexus5, N6, N5x, N6P, 1+1 and 1+3.. i always look for something really different than the stock android, like miui or flyme os.. or at least a rom with plenty of features. i am just get bored to have always the same stock system as there is no other cutom oreo rom. i'm not a professional and i never tried to coock some here but i always change and flash my phone and even my family and friends phones . pixel xl is amazing especially with software updates and google things, even the camera app is the best so far and we recently have this new option of "AR STICKERS"... but i am bored that this phone doesn't really make me work on it.
i hope u get the message

aholeinthewor1d said:
Yea when I originally purchased this last year I figured the dev community would be huge. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the awesome ROMs we have just thought it would be a bigger scene. Seeing as how the phone is very expensive and if you want an unlocked bootloader you have to buy it through Google it makes sense (yes some Verizon models could be unlocked before updating). In general I still love the phone and it's by far better than anything I've had before. I don't upgrade phones often because I always wait for very good deals (Pixel for $140 new) so I'll likely have this for years.
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what u said is exactly what i meant by making this post, and honestly this phone is the best so far, i just expected more devs on it as it's a huge phone especially a google phone.

To the OP,
It's been pretty clear for some time that there aren't many rooms for the Pixel XL: are you sure that you really could not have known this before you got one?
I'm not that bothered that there isn't much development: less is more, there's less necessity than a few years ago and the pace of updates and safetynet make this a more intensive task (as mentioned by others). I have root and only use this for very specific features like adblocking.
I've had 3 OnePlus phones (2, 3 & 5) and each generation of Nexus/Pixel (bar two: GNex and N6... I had the Pixel 2 but returned it as faulty). A number of the roms/mods for 1+ are attempts to replicate Nexus/Pixel features, with the rest fairly pointless shortcuts and 'features' of little value (and often already accessible through an app). Substratum does most all you need for theming, and xposed (apparently almost ready for Oreo as the biggest jump was to Nougat) takes care of much of the other stuff.

driss.sadok said:
well i agree with u, and concerning your question i would say that if we can have a different room rather than the stock i would be happy, i used to have, nexus5, N6, N5x, N6P, 1+1 and 1+3.. i always look for something really different than the stock android, like miui or flyme os.. or at least a rom with plenty of features. i am just get bored to have always the same stock system as there is no other cutom oreo rom. i'm not a professional and i never tried to coock some here but i always change and flash my phone and even my family and friends phones . pixel xl is amazing especially with software updates and google things, even the camera app is the best so far and we recently have this new option of "AR STICKERS"... but i am bored that this phone doesn't really make me work on it.
i hope u get the message
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I think you may have bought the wrong phone if u expected that you were going to need to be replacing the ROM... IMHO, none of the custom ROMs are going to be better optimisized, and its just a fact that none will be utilisizing the latest new android features, being as they are always months behind Google's releases....
custom roms tend to be far better suited for older phones, EOL devices, etc...
you can still get a ton of customizations on the stock ROM, but it comes down to custom kernels, launchers and root apps that can modify the ROM, etc....
I'm curious, what are the compelling features that u need out of rom that u can't get on stock?

driss.sadok said:
THANK U but i think this forum is the discussion too, so it's the right place to complain.. i wasn't complaining only for mods, roms too ... i think u get my point
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The mods must agree with me, not you. Enjoy complaining in the correct forum.

kboya said:
To the OP,
It's been pretty clear for some time that there aren't many rooms for the Pixel XL: are you sure that you really could not have known this before you got one?
I'm not that bothered that there isn't much development: less is more, there's less necessity than a few years ago and the pace of updates and safetynet make this a more intensive task (as mentioned by others). I have root and only use this for very specific features like adblocking.
I've had 3 OnePlus phones (2, 3 & 5) and each generation of Nexus/Pixel (bar two: GNex and N6... I had the Pixel 2 but returned it as faulty). A number of the roms/mods for 1+ are attempts to replicate Nexus/Pixel features, with the rest fairly pointless shortcuts and 'features' of little value (and often already accessible through an app). Substratum does most all you need for theming, and xposed (apparently almost ready for Oreo as the biggest jump was to Nougat) takes care of much of the other stuff.
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I miss Xposed. So. Freaking. Much.
But not enough to to go back to nougat lol

Last Xposed report was almost ready for Oreo.. a few weeks back

Thank u guys, i know my subject is annoying, but i think i am just addicted to changing all time, and to this forum too lol. but if really Xposed comes to nougat, that would help my sickness

I have had no urge to install a custom ROM or even a kernel since I got the Pixel XL (right after release). Besides my being annoyed by Google putting the search bar on the bottom of the home launcher page and making it non-deletable or even movable, I have been totally happy with bootloader unlocked and rooted stock. My only development frustration is the moving target that the TWRP devs seem to be chasing and the SuperSU transition. I am liking Magisk so far, but I had got used to Chainfire's apps and have a hard time accepting this change LOL.

2nd hand Pixel XL's will swell the user base
liam_davenport said:
I think it's down to the price. I see no reason to buy this to Dev on over any other device Pixel just isn't value for money and nowhere near as popular as some of the other devices out there
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Cheaper 2nd hand XL's will make this phone more popular - I just got mine for £340 and am very pleased with it. (I should be as my previous phone was a Nexus 4 which I loved and nurtured for over 4 years!)
Having said that I'm on 8.1 stock unlocked but not yet rooted.
I'm waiting to see what Project Treble will bring.

What is the most bug free custom ROM for Axon 7?

I'd love to get some totally un-biased views here, including pros and cons. This will probably also help others given the current circumstances and wading through old threads containing up to 4000 posts is a real PIA. Current info condensed into one new thread would be great and not introduce clutter in the ROM threads.
Given that even if we get Oreo, there will most likely be no further official updates, just wondering, from all of you who have used many ROMs, what is an honest view of which ROMs are nearly bug free? Are any bug free? For me stuff like call and camera issues are a total deal breaker. I use my phone for personal and work, including interstate and minor overseas travel. Not going to even install any ROM that is compromised in some way.
I put OmniROM MM on my Oppo Find 7 and that was fantastic. It even got updated to Nougat and I think still has updates so I reset it to a non rooted, stock (Omni) state and passed it on to my eldest daughter. It's being enjoyed and well used still.
I'd really like to get that kind of service life from my Axon 7 as it is a very good phone still.

I reccomend Oreo AEX,although i heard that dualsim is not currently working

Just like asking "what are the best headphones?", or "what are the best speakers?", the only real way to tell how well a certain ROM will work for YOU on YOUR PHONE is to try it. Even between phones of the exact same model, there will always be different experiences across users. Backup, wipe, flash & see if the features/performance you find are what work for you.

Well that won't be happening. I use it for work. Can't be flashing it all the time. Just needs to work and leave it alone.

RobboW said:
Well that won't be happening. I use it for work. Can't be flashing it all the time. Just needs to work and leave it alone.
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I'd use raystef's stock based roms then, check them out.
Most are nougat, one is oreo beta, pick your poison.

I've had really good experiences with Official lineageOS. It has been a seamless process without any hitches. I'm personally waiting for the official release of lineageOS 15.1 (if and when it comes out). I've installed lineage on various devices and have been super happy with all of them. My Moto G Titan feels like a new phone after I've installed it.

Victor13f said:
I've had really good experiences with Official lineageOS. It has been a seamless process without any hitches. I'm personally waiting for the official release of lineageOS 15.1 (if and when it comes out). I've installed lineage on various devices and have been super happy with all of them. My Moto G Titan feels like a new phone after I've installed it.
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It's very device specific though. Sometimes a custom ROM (such as LOS, OMNI etc) will work well on one type of phone and be buggy on a different one. Not all phones work the same on them and I think the Axon 7 is one of those that ends up with buggy ROMs. The camera and DAC are complications that can be hard to get running well, also dual SIM can be an issue and I use it all.
If it's a choice between custom with bugs or stay on stock Nougat I would stay stock.

RobboW said:
If it's a choice between custom with bugs or stay on stock Nougat I would stay stock.
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The feedback on LOS doesn't seem to be too bad and I do understand that since I am also still stock but the problem is that the stock ROM is filled with bugs aswell. The screen brightness bug I get sometimes, the call bug, my Google play store crashes often, my GPS doesn't work properly etc etc. Those are all bugs the stock ROM itself has.

Just bought this phone - What can I expect?

Hi.
I picked up a 6p for £30. It needs new volume buttons so I may as well change the battery while I'm fixing the buttons.
I'm back into flashing again after a period with Huawei phones.
Is development pretty good on this device? Can you recommend any ROMs that are super stable and have GPS?
Cheers.

problems...
some of the best roms are, AICP (weekly releases, full functions) and personally I like Resurrection Remix 7.2 both are Android 9 based and can't go wrong with em imo. These come highly customizable out of the box if that's your thing, or if your more into the stock-like "pixel experience" there is Pixel Experience rom with versions based on either Android 10 or 9.

What are the problems?

I've been using the Nexus 6P since January 2016, and now it is a secondary phone for me. I love flashing ROMs and that's how I use this phone now. You shall try the Pixel experience ROM based on Android 10- https://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/development/rom-pixel-experience-t3970525, I haven't been able to register fingerprints/ nexus imprint in this ROM rest is working just fine.
Now, coming to what you should expect, in phrase- 'A lot of lag and nostalgia'. The device is very slow when compared to present generation flagship devices, and it will be evident everywhere, no matter what you're using this devices for the Snapdragon 810 won't let you do it not without a few hiccups here and there. As much as I hate the sluggish performance of this device there is a lot of nostalgia associated with this device and the amount of support this device is getting is simply amazing for which almost every bit of credit goes to the XDA developers community.
So, you're welcome have fun flashing/ or doing whatever you choose to do with your device. ✌

xosinchan said:
Now, coming to what you should expect, in phrase- 'A lot of lag and nostalgia'. The device is very slow when compared to present generation flagship devices, and it will be evident everywhere, no matter what you're using this devices for the Snapdragon 810 won't let you do it not without a few hiccups here and there. As much as I hate the sluggish performance of this device there is a lot of nostalgia associated with this device and the amount of support this device is getting is simply amazing for which almost every bit of credit goes to the XDA developers community.
So, you're welcome have fun flashing/ or doing whatever you choose to do with your device. ✌
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I disagree with you.
The 6P can without difficulties keep up with devices that have been manufactured recent.
A comparison with a OnePlus 7 or the Google Pixel 4 is relatively pointless with a view of the technological achievements in this time.
The well-known hardware issues do not apply to every device, btw.
If you look up the price for an angler or the shamu for example, with regard to the specs is the performance definitely more than legitimate in 2020.
I paid for the angler 90 Euro in tip-top condition.The shamu cost roughly the same.
Compare those with newer devices and you have to remember which possibilities come within.
In regard to dozens of restrictions which have been implemented.Xiaomi, Huawei, Samsung and surely others are a pain², mate.
The Nexus series has of all other brands/devices the most loyal and foremost diverse selection of customized roms, kernel, not to forget the variety of applicable options.
There are not many other phones with 4yrs mileage and those possibilities.
I could write much more about this topic, but everyone who is a long time Nexus user with the according interest in customization is usually well informed about this subject.
Beside the awful manta is the Nexus series still a very good choice. If you are in our scene you have to look up the specs, make yourself a picture beforehand. So the problems shouldn't be not surprising for someone who is informed.
The Nexus 5 cost used even today at least ~110 Euro.This is a good example for their value;not only for nostalgiac causes, but for a reliable device with limited specs..The release of the hammerhead was 2012, you know.Nexus 7 is or was the most ever sold tablet.
Perhaps the child manufactured iPads have reached those numbers yet, but iOS is with Microsofts attempt to break into the smartphone market, the worst OS resp piece of hardware I have witnessed, therefore are these attempts, at least for me, not of relevance.
Regards

Warren_Orange said:
Hi.
I picked up a 6p for £30. It needs new volume buttons so I may as well change the battery while I'm fixing the buttons.
I'm back into flashing again after a period with Huawei phones.
Is development pretty good on this device? Can you recommend any ROMs that are super stable and have GPS?
Cheers.
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I forgot to response yesterday..
The development is still ongoing, but personally wouldn't I recommend any kind of FBE/FDE based roms(mostly Android 9 and 10).
I use the device at the time with Aosip 8.1, which is very stable and quite good developed.
I would also recommend that you try a rom without any custom kernel for the first time(s)..
I have not best experiences with either of them.
At last would I highly recommend the Nougat roms like Uber, PureNexus..those are without doubt the most reliable.
I hope you have fun with the device.
To your question regarding GPS reliability, would I look into the Magisk repository.
They have a great module for maximizing the signal and receiver accuracy.
Welcome in the Angler Community

UsPdSr said:
I forgot to response yesterday..
The development is still ongoing, but personally wouldn't I recommend any kind of FBE/FDE based roms(mostly Android 9 and 10).
I use the device at the time with Aosip 8.1, which is very stable and quite good developed.
I would also recommend that you try a rom without any custom kernel for the first time(s)..
I have not best experiences with either of them.
At last would I highly recommend the Nougat roms like Uber, PureNexus..those are without doubt the most reliable.
I hope you have fun with the device.
To your question regarding GPS reliability, would I look into the Magisk repository.
They have a great module for maximizing the signal and receiver accuracy.
Welcome in the Angler Community
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Thanks for the reply.
For the moment I have settled on stock 8.1 rooted. I am not sure how to flash some of the newer ROM's using FBE/FDE. Plus the newer ROM's seen to have quite a few issues regarding finger print etc.
I'll wait a while and then see how these ROM's are progressing.

Warren_Orange said:
Thanks for the reply.
For the moment I have settled on stock 8.1 rooted. I am not sure how to flash some of the newer ROM's using FBE/FDE. Plus the newer ROM's seen to have quite a few issues regarding finger print etc.
I'll wait a while and then see how these ROM's are progressing.
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Alright.
Just beware of these awful bash/.bat scripts by Google for the fastboot installation.
I don't know which distribution you use..in any case should you avoid the fastboot/adb package in Debian's distro, they contain some bugs.
If you use Linux(Ubuntu, Mint, Debian..), dkwnload the sdk package(solely the fastboot part!) and set the path by hand.
If you need any advice I am happy to help out when there is an issue.
Here you will find the GPS - Magisk module, which I mentioned earlier, btw - >
https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Repo/optmizedgpsconf
PS
I don't want to diminish the work of the remaining developer here and am quite interested, but this device was not made for Pie, let alone Q.
Stick with the factory rom, altough it's very bloated.
PureNexus is the thinner brother of stock..but it is best as inform yourself far as possible and decide what you want.