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When the G1 came out it was the only Android powered device so modding it worked for everybody. And it was just one brand, HTC, so this forum was a one stop destination for modding our phone.
However, things have changed, now there are multiple phone with incompatible hardware from different manufacturers. Now a custom rom made for the G1, won't work on a DROID for example and vise versa. This complicates things quite a bit.
Right now Cyanogen mods are the best thing for our G1 and maybe the best thing for Android as a whole. I'm used to the build in tether capability and apps to SD and compcace and the other perks of a modded rom. But if I wanted to upgrade my phone, I would lose it all.
There are no Cyanogen mod for anything other than G1 and myTouch phones as far as I know and if I were to upgrade to DROID, I would lose root, lose tether, lose apps to SD, lose everything about my phone that makes it my phone.
Everything I wrote may not be facts, I don't really know what goes on at other forums, but I know that we don't have roms build to run on the DROID and we don't have them built to run on the HERO hardware, it's all for G1 and myTouch, and it seems to me that if I don't ha.ve on of those phones, I lose everything.
I do understand that this forum is for HTC devices which DROID and a few other's are not which is why I don't see homebrew for them. Is there a another website similar to this that supports all Android hardware?
These are thoughts that have been running through my head lately. If I am totally wrong here, please let me know.
I would say check out websites such as androidcommunity.com, androidandme.com, phandroid.com. The developers might not be on there but you can probably find links to where there are custom roms for the phones.
And you are right about different phones having different development oppurtunities. I thought about this today and realized that the next android phone I get not only has to be what I want but also be a popular phone that will attract developers such as cyan, maxisma, jac, manup and everyone else. My best guess and hope is that it will be a snapdragon android handset, hopefully for T-Mobile USA.
What we'll end up having to do is pick our phones based on it's community support and what kind of home brew is available for it.
The reason I love the G1 is the fact that it's rooted and has a large community. This phone is the best on the market, all things considered, because the rooted OS allows so much.
If and when the Droid is rooted, when a GSM version is released, and when it has T-Mo's 3G bands, I will move to it. But all those may not happen for another year or more. If you haven't played with a Droid yet, do so. Incredible speed and the best screen I have ever seen on a phone. Till then, G1 all the way.
The man is right, we have a problem on the dev side.
I think though, once 2.0 gets standard, we'll only need root for a few things like tethering and setting the CPU clock. Really cyanogen's only advantage is optimization, but once 2.0 and snapdragon rolls around, who cares? We'll always want to tinker, but it won't eclipse getting the phone you want.
The big problems right now are that the market isn't getting what it needs. Nothing compares to the HTC widgets, yet instead of cloning them on the market, we try and run a ROM that doesn't even work on our phones! We still don't have BT in Hero and it may just never happen.
2.0 will be what we need as a base, but the market needs our help now.
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
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Click to collapse
Thanks but this thread is not about who has the best rom.
The point is, when you get a new Android phone, your rom of choice won't be available for it. So what do you do?
alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we all get it already, YOU are dwang's biggest fan
But, to stay on topic. My G1 is the first HTC device I've ever owned and I've only discovered XDA since I've had it, and I think that because of the community involvement here and the custom roms that have come out, I will definitely lean towards another HTC phone when I look for my next upgrade, and it will definately be an android phone.
Also another thing to look at is the availability of the phones that are out to actual dev's. Unless people are donating phones, I doubt everyone can just run out and pick up all the latest devices, and network restrictions/preferences that come along with them.
I think the easiest solution is as follows:
1. Find the dev you like best.
2. Find the phone you like best.
3. Buy phone you like best.
4. Buy/Create a donate link to get said dev the same phone.
Assuming said dev doesnt turn around and craigslist the phone you bought him/her, you have (hopefully) ensured said dev will migrate and develop on your favorite hardware.
Not the best solution but probably the most reliable.
alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
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Click to collapse
Seriously dude, are you going to diss me in every thread? What do you even contribute to this community? I've not received any patches or even logs of the "problems" you claim.
cyanogen said:
Seriously dude, are you going to diss me in every thread? What do you even contribute to this community? I've not received any patches or even logs of the "problems" you claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For real.
Alec, you're like the little annoying brother that no one wants to be around.
Grow up, let your balls drop, and enjoy your phone, your life, and whatever rom you want.
But, you don't have to go around dissing well-respected devs.
The Droid hasn't been out long enough for a community to gather around it. Many of the Android big names are waiting to get GSM versions before tinkering.
Also, remember that the HTC Dream was in circulation well before it launched last year. The Android development phone is identical to the Dream, with the only difference being some swish art on the back cover. The hardware and software were free-flowing long before it landed in our hands. In contrast, the Droid was a much more secretive launch; we've only just got Eclair source code, and the SDK was kept under wraps by a non-disclosure agreement (probably to conceal the nuclear bomb that is Google Maps Navigation).
I find the cracking of the Droid to be inevitable. The poor thing is going to be broken just as much as our Dreams were. Just give it time.
As for ROMs being available over a span of phones, I'm not sure that's even a good idea. Android variants like XROM, cyanogenmod, The Dude's ROM, yadda yadda... they're all about maximising the capabilities of the Dream. Not the Droid, the Dream. Adding in features that the hardware can support, changing CPU frequencies, Apps2SD, all that jazz. Droid ROMs will be built around adding in core features, like Apps2SD, and whatever else the Droid has tucked away. Likewise, speed optimisations may not be portable between phones, as what gives the Dream a boost may hinder the Droid.
For me, features of a ROM are not the best part of homebrew Android builds. The best part is being able to upgrade your phone outside of the carrier's say-so. If T-mobile have no plans to push Eclair to Dreams, I will install it myself. I am not tied down by the say-so of a room full of suits three thousand miles away. If T-mobile don't include an app that I like, such as the IM app or the Amazon MP3 store (which T-mobile UK don't), I can get ROMs with them myself. If a carrier would rather I didn't tether without paying for my bandwidth twice, I can do it anyway, so long as I'm not an idiot.
You may have guessed that I have a very dim view of cell carriers.
With root, we are free to do as we like. This is the real killer feature of homebrew, and the Droid will benefit from it too.
Anyway...
dwang said:
I want to acknowledge cyanogen, daproy, cyrowski, loccy, and alla for their contributions to the android community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems dwang himself has a much higher opinion of the man than a certain other someone.
AthlonBoy said:
The Droid hasn't been out long enough for a community to gather around it. Many of the Android big names are waiting to get GSM versions before tinkering.
Also, remember that the HTC Dream was in circulation well before it launched last year. The Android development phone is identical to the Dream, with the only difference being some swish art on the back cover. The hardware and software were free-flowing long before it landed in our hands. In contrast, the Droid was a much more secretive launch; we've only just got Eclair source code, and the SDK was kept under wraps by a non-disclosure agreement (probably to conceal the nuclear bomb that is Google Maps Navigation).
I find the cracking of the Droid to be inevitable. The poor thing is going to be broken just as much as our Dreams were. Just give it time.
As for ROMs being available over a span of phones, I'm not sure that's even a good idea. Android variants like XROM, cyanogenmod, The Dude's ROM, yadda yadda... they're all about maximising the capabilities of the Dream. Not the Droid, the Dream. Adding in features that the hardware can support, changing CPU frequencies, Apps2SD, all that jazz. Droid ROMs will be built around adding in core features, like Apps2SD, and whatever else the Droid has tucked away. Likewise, speed optimisations may not be portable between phones, as what gives the Dream a boost may hinder the Droid.
For me, features of a ROM are not the best part of homebrew Android builds. The best part is being able to upgrade your phone outside of the carrier's say-so. If T-mobile have no plans to push Eclair to Dreams, I will install it myself. I am not tied down by the say-so of a room full of suits three thousand miles away. If T-mobile don't include an app that I like, such as the IM app or the Amazon MP3 store (which T-mobile UK don't), I can get ROMs with them myself. If a carrier would rather I didn't tether without paying for my bandwidth twice, I can do it anyway, so long as I'm not an idiot.
You may have guessed that I have a very dim view of cell carriers.
With root, we are free to do as we like. This is the real killer feature of homebrew, and the Droid will benefit from it too.
Anyway...
It seems dwang himself has a much higher opinion of the man than a certain other someone.
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Click to collapse
You seem to have almost got my point but not quite. Of coarse DOID doesn't need Cyanogen MOD specifically. But would you buy an Android phone if there weren't a mod that lets it do the things that we are used to and have only become available by modding? Apps to SD, tethering, themeing?
Sure DROID might get all these things though a custom rom but we won't see it on this website. The problem is that things will get too spread out and hard to find with all these new hardware options.
What would be nice is a rom that works on nearly every Android device that just adds root access to the phone and some basic universal packages like A2SD and tethering etc. That way you can buy any Android device you want and still have these basic privileges.
Do you think something like that would be possible?
Pinesal said:
You seem to have almost got my point but not quite. Of coarse DOID doesn't need Cyanogen MOD specifically. But would you buy an Android phone if there weren't a mod that lets it do the things that we are used to and have only become available by modding? Apps to SD, tethering, themeing?
Sure DROID might get all these things though a custom rom but we won't see it on this website. The problem is that things will get too spread out and hard to find with all these new hardware options.
What would be nice is a rom that works on nearly every Android device that just adds root access to the phone and some basic universal packages like A2SD and tethering etc. That way you can buy any Android device you want and still have these basic privileges.
Do you think something like that would be possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beats me, man. I'm not a developer. But I think it's unlikely.
For the DROID (and other/future android phones) is Apps2SD really necessary? The only reason why we need it on our phones is because of the pathetic amount of internal space the G1 has, the same goes for Swap Partitions etc.
As long as people buy the phone there is always going to be someone who is smart enough to work on rooting it IMO. And even without root what do you really lose? The only things I think I would really miss are Wireless Tether and Bluetooth File Transfer (Which I THINK is in 2.0 anyway).
I'm not buying a new phone until it's rooted and Cyanogen has it too.
My biggest requirement for any android phone..and any cell phone in general is the keyboard. I bought the G1 because of the keyboard and lucked out with the high number of developers available for it. I didn't find this place for several months during the time when the grandfather of the G1 mod program was still active =) JF!. I enjoyed all the modding and updating because I personally feel that the phone is, well mine. And I should be able to do what ever I want with it. I had picked up the V3C Razer because it could play MP3's. I get it home and then discover that the Verizon Nazi's completely locked down that feature so you where forced to use their service at an additional cost. Of course the motorola dev/repair/store software allowed us to get in a enable the various features that Verizon required to be locked. I also love the Aps2sd. No matter what phone you have, the internal memory will never be enough. And with the Cliq supporting 32gig sd cards, a full keyboard, and NOT verizon was enough for me. I'm patient and confident it will be rooted eventually. If not, I still have my G1 and I still do Cyanogen updates and play around with it. And when my contract is up with Tmob(renewed for the Cliq), I'll see who has the next most popular rooted phone with a keyboard and switch over. I just really hate people telling me how to use a device I own. Its like going to McDonalds and having them dictate what condiments to put on my BigMac and Fries, and then telling me I can only eat it a certain way and which hand to use. If Cyanogen was down with the Cliq, or interested in it. I may be willing to ship him my phone to see what he can come up with.
As far as a universal O/S for all phones, isn't that just the core Android software with specific drivers provided by each manufacturer and custom UI? There should be a way to make 1 O/S for all android phones, then have update packs with the drivers and UI enhancements and add-ons for each android phone released? Not sure of the SPL locks though. Thats a bit beyond me. But i wouldn't think it would be to hard to run Cyanogen on the Cliq or droid provided the correct drivers and such where bundled with it. Kind of like slipstreaming a service pack into a bootleg Windows OS . Each phone eventually has to release the source code which contains the drivers for that phone. Thats how we get the Cliq's OS onto the G1, should work the other way around too. Sounds easy, but Cyanogen's Rom should run on my Cliq, provided the drivers are slipstreamed into it for the Cliq...right? Only problem is root.. :/ hehehe
and there he flames again...alec.baldwin, no one has the problems you have with cyanogen's latest. actually, lets delve into this...what exactly are your "problems" with 4.2.5? PLEASE, answer this question so cyanogen can dutifully fix the "problems" you are having.
You might check out some of the Q/A threads to first learn how to properly flash cyanogen's ROM. It is slightly different than Dwang's because Cyanogen uses the legal method. In fact, check out www.cyanogenmod.com and you might find a ton of useful info on getting cm to work on your phone.
Best of Luck,
njuncos
P.S. Cyanogen, mad props on once again reaching over a million thread views on your latest. Now you own 3 of the top 4 most viewed threads of all time in Dream Android Development!
Is there a reason why the dev community cannot get behind cyanogenmod and still get donated to? Is there some kind of politics involved that will not allow this relationship? I just think I would like to see the effort into one project that is solid, without all the themes and "personal" touches you see with everything else.
In a word it doesnt seem like much progress is being made, except for some screenshots from the dude and an alpha build from eugene. If Eugene, Som, Codeworkxs thedudesandroid, and the rest of the vibrant devs worked on a gingerbread based cyanogenmod, it would benefit everyone.
Move me, flame me, just dont one line answer me.
Yours to change and modify:
https://github.com/CyanogenMod
Ideologies differ. Work ethics differ. I think a move like this would be destined to fail.
Have you personally experienced both Macnut and Nero? Both ROMS are outstanding. I think the more fragmented the ROMS are, the more ideas, experiments, and innovation will occur. I think to push devs to a single common platform would be both stifling and detrimental to the android modding community as a whole.
Besides, all the devs have the same problem... Drivers. Until we start seeing Gingerbread leaks, all devs would have the same stumbling block anyway, whether they are working as one, or separately.
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
angryPirate12 said:
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This makes me moist.
d33dvb said:
Is there a reason why the dev community cannot get behind cyanogenmod and still get donated to? Is there some kind of politics involved that will not allow this relationship? I just think I would like to see the effort into one project that is solid, without all the themes and "personal" touches you see with everything else.
In a word it doesnt seem like much progress is being made, except for some screenshots from the dude and an alpha build from eugene. If Eugene, Som, Codeworkxs thedudesandroid, and the rest of the vibrant devs worked on a gingerbread based cyanogenmod, it would benefit everyone.
Move me, flame me, just dont one line answer me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my question for you, is why does it have to be cyanogenmod? Youre asking all devs to collaborate to come up with one big super-ROM, yet it will still only be under the name of one developer, Cyanogen?? This doesnt make much sense.
So basically what youre asking is, since you PERSONALLY would prefer to run cyanogenmod on your phone, you want all other Vibrant devs to concede their own projects to assist your personal favorite developer with his project??
Why doesnt CM help with a new Team Whiskey ROM?? If your answer is because CM is more popular and has more development-power in the Android world, then you have answered your own question in regards to the "politics" that may be behind it.
I feel a lot of people (not necessarily the OP) just seek the "cyanogenmod" title to their ROM, without even really knowing what it is. They just hear the name thrown around all over the place and want to feel like they are in the loop; which is just mindless, in my opinion.
Its great to have several devs, with several different projects. It gives the average user (non-dev) options, and different things to choose from and try.
If you went to a car show, and every car had the same exact engine in it, what would be interesting in that??
what a communist suggestion
I, personally, love that there are many diff ROM's to choose from. I love having that variety. I prefer <tw> ROM's, just because they theme it pretty much how I would theme a ROM (and they scream), If I was even remotely capable of Dev'ing. Eugene makes an awsome ROM too, But not to my personal taste. On my G1 I always used cm ROM's, but the way they work at this point that's not possible for a Vibrant. So I guess what I'm saying is, I'm glad they're not all concentrating on one ROM because we would still be waiting... stuck with RFS !
I just want that Cyanogen bluetooth stack on a regular (sans Touchwiz) Galaxy S rom with TV out. The Bluetoouth stack is the only reason why I am using Cyanogen outside of the speedy OS.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
I get what you mean but I have to say that I love flashing different devs roms & kernels, I would hate to be slave to one idea...I could have gone iOs for that.....get it iOs 4! I kill myself sometimes...
vibrant
GingerR2JL4
TopShelf10 said:
my question for you, is why does it have to be cyanogenmod? Youre asking all devs to collaborate to come up with one big super-ROM, yet it will still only be under the name of one developer, Cyanogen?? This doesnt make much sense.
So basically what youre asking is, since you PERSONALLY would prefer to run cyanogenmod on your phone, you want all other Vibrant devs to concede their own projects to assist your personal favorite developer with his project??
Why doesnt CM help with a new Team Whiskey ROM?? If your answer is because CM is more popular and has more development-power in the Android world, then you have answered your own question in regards to the "politics" that may be behind it.
I feel a lot of people (not necessarily the OP) just seek the "cyanogenmod" title to their ROM, without even really knowing what it is. They just hear the name thrown around all over the place and want to feel like they are in the loop; which is just mindless, in my opinion.
Its great to have several devs, with several different projects. It gives the average user (non-dev) options, and different things to choose from and try.
If you went to a car show, and every car had the same exact engine in it, what would be interesting in that??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. It seems to be the "you want what you can't have" theory. It's going to be funny when there is finally a CM ROM and all these same ppl that wanted it are going to wonder why CM is so plain looking and isn't themed up. It's an endless cycle. CM offers support to multiple devices, which gets their name out there. But I can promise you if you've ran ROMs such as Nero + voodoo, even the best running CM isn't going to "blow it away" in performance, maybe some fun features, but that'll about do it.
I'm satisfied with TWs stuff. All I'm hoping for is that we can get drivers written to do our own ASOP roms, so we can one day have 2.3 and beyond.
im curious about this as well and being that i have no clue, i feel completely authorized to put in my .02 that i thought the primary reason we dont have cm for the galaxy was due to lack of aosp/drivers...
LOL, you sad bunch of folks think I have never flashed a rom on the vibrant? Sure I have, but they are all roms based off of samsuck files, with a theme pushed on top. This requires some skill and understanding, but it does not make you a "ROM D3V"
I am not in any way trying to push everyone to cyanogenmod, I am trying to get the "real devs" to work on things like GPS drivers and such as a whole, to benefit everyone, you think the tricks we learn as a group you cannot then use as an individual? You cannot say I am communist (lmao) because I want the devs to work together, I suppose that what people say about XDA is true, the users who are flaming me make it unbearable to have a real conversation. I mean just look there are several "FANBOY" posts already, and we are on post 13. No wonder the real devs ficking hate XDA. The sole reason I personally like cyan is because of the testing that it goes through, to make sure embarrassing bugs dont happen often. He has developed a rom for my G1, then both my Mytouch's and just miss running it on my vibrant, thats all. My G1 is sitting here running CM 6.1.0 and my phone still sits here on Ginger Clone, the best there is right now.
FYI when there was lack of drivers on the Dream/Magic someone re-wrote them, mmkay?
It has always seemed that the devs share fairly well. While they don't work together on one project, they share what is needed and form teams of likeminded people to push out better and better products. If you want to see what happens when you get everyone together and make them all focus on one big new release look at samsung itself. These small teams can operate with greater freedom to build and release mods and roms as they see fit. Xda is about sharing info and improving our machines. Would we really want to have gingerbread today without all the options and flavors that different dev teams put together. If you say yes, that's fine, but I like the variety and am happy to wait for what's next.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Moved of: Samsung Vibrant > Vibrant Android Development
To: Samsung Vibrant > Vibrant General
CM is not really comparable to the XDA devs' ROMs. CM is a complete ground-up build from AOSP. Nero, Macnut, etc are not; they are mods of existing unofficial Samsung ROMs. (Not to imply that Eugene/Sombionix et al's work is anything less than quality).
mindaika said:
CM is not really comparable to the XDA devs' ROMs. CM is a complete ground-up build from AOSP. Nero, Macnut, etc are not; they are mods of existing unofficial Samsung ROMs. (Not to imply that Eugene/Sombionix et al's work is anything less than quality).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's the thing. The skill set involved in getting AOSP (and the rest of CM) building properly is a different skill set than modifying a Samsung released ROM.
The approaches are almost entirely opposite - whereas most ROMs here take what the vendor provides and replace the junky bits with stuff that works better, the AOSP-based ROMs such as CM start from a bare bones google source repository that never had any of that junk to begin with.
Both approaches have their merits. As should be obvious by now, the former results in much more rapid progress since you can start right away with a working build from Samsung. The latter approach can take substantially longer, since you don't have a working base to start from (especially with a device like the SGS, which has hardware very different from most CM-supported devices).
Eugene had an AOSP 2.1 rom pretty well built. Needed some kinks worked out, but there didn't seem to be a lot of interest because all everyone wanted was froyo. I'm sure we're probably see at least a couple of AOSP efforts if/when froyo officially drops.
angryPirate12 said:
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, codeworkx and the CMSGS team have stopped worked on 6.1 and (along with Supercurio and others) are working on an AOSP Gingerbread port for SGS.
It makes sense--no point in continuing to try to build a 2.2 without source when the 2.3 source is already out.
Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946
There is currently work being done by jt, birdman, and the other skew of developers trying to develop a working AOSP version of 2.2/2.3. The biggest struggle that they have encountered was the RIL (Radio Interface Layer) binaries. Samsung produced some bogus complex proprietary binaries with no properly working source code. Because this phone is CDMA and not GSM, we can't simply use galaxy s files.
Anyways, the point is that there is work being done to bring it to our phone. They have a working AOSP 2.1 that is currently in alpha stage. Jt basically built his own RIL for this phone to get it working.
If this RIL works, we may end up with 2.3 sooner than later.
eulipion2 said:
Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You obviously have not searched hard enough, as this has been discussed in many places. I would suggest you start by searching this forum (edit: or seeing the links and posts above).
I will say, however, that recent achievements by (edit: the developers mentioned above) have made your suggestion quite possible. If you want to get a taste of what is to come, see the aosp alpha sticky located in the development section. The rom still has bugs, but it is a giant step forward for the Fascinate.
Sent from my Galaxy-S Fascinate
Florynce said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946
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^^^^^
10char
I must add/point out that the work these guys are doing could easily pave the way for Cyanogenmod- and other well-featured roms to be compiled/ported and used on Fascinate as well.
I've read the above links, but they didn't really quite answer my question. I guess I'm wondering why a Linux-based OS isn't acting/being treated like a Linux-based OS.
Let's say I go out and buy a new computer today. I want to put Linux on it. I get the machine home, download my distro of choice and make an install cd. As I'm installing, I configure the installation either for my specific hardware or I can use a generic profile if my hardware isn't listed.
Now say a new version of the Linux kernel comes out. I can upgrade without having to wait for a version for my hardware. Or if I install MyDistro v1 when I get my machine, and MyDistro v2 comes out the next day, I don't have to wait for someone to develop a version to work with my hardware.
So my question is more of a why can't we upgrade our distro like other Linux variants? Is it because there's no generic replacement for the Samsung RIL? If I were to download the source and do a generic build, or even a specific one, I wouldn't be able to install it because...?
Sorry to be a pain, but I genuinely have no clue. Again, thank you for the insight!
2.2 will boot on the I500 just nothing works. If you would like to help http://opensource.samsung.com/
The source code can be found there. Please feel free to help the development along.
I suggest you read through the reply's to your question and pay special note to those bringing up the RIL as that seems to be the biggest hurdle right now.
I think maybe the answer you are looking for is that it is possible to do it, it's just extremely difficult because Samsung's open source is very shoddy and isn't based on AOS, which is what is used for most other phones.
Since the developers don't have a build that works, they have to work from the ground up with AOS and get every last feature on the fascinate working without using Samsung's code (TouchWiz, widgets, etc).
The links they gave you explain most of it but you have to sift through the posts. There is a dev named jt (amongst others) who is working on a ROM that is upgradable based on AOSP and it looks very promising.
edit: It's also worth noting that when I say "not based on AOS" I mean that it is proprietary software used by Samsung-only phones and is not coded by Google. It still, of course, is based on Android OS. It would be akin to a ROM coded by Samsung for their phones rather than generic ROMs that could be downloaded by other phones.
Perfect, thanks!
Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
For clarification.... so I can wrap my brain around this. Is this situation kinda like having bought a new computer that's running an os, but has no installed device drivers and nowhere to download them from, so they have to be written by hand?
Edit: that last post came thru while I was writing this one, I think it basically answers my question...
So what the devs on here are trying to do is develop a "generic" profile that can work on our phone (as well as others?), creating a solid base to allow users to upgrade and change at-will without having to wait for official releases?
See, that's the part I'm having a hard time with. No generic profile built into the OS to use in the absence of a hardware specific one?
LoverBoyV said:
Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
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On a sidenote, I bought a Dell netbook witih Ubuntu. Didn't waste time with Ubuntu, but I chose it because I didn't want MS to get money from a license fee. Installed Mac OS X on it the day it arrived
Ya know, I tried to do the same thing with my inspiron 1525 notebook, with snow leopard 10.6.3 since I have a spare hard drive. Spent a whole day with numerous guides, trying this n that. Got it to actually boot to the desktop once, bit as I was putting the drivers in, it went into KP and from that point on, I could never even reinstall back to the desktop again.
Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source: (Twitter, About 12pm 1/2/2011 from Samsungtweets via Cotweet - http://twitter.com/Samsungtweets/samsung-usa )
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
EDIT: gave more specific time and source of tweets. Post is meant to be objective, without definition of ASAP for this context.
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
soba49 said:
Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source (Twitter, 6 hours ago):
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
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I'm not sure if this is meant to be funny or not haha. Are those recent tweets?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
They seem to post the same things over and over, of course this is also because people constantly ask when is froyo coming, and every time they say there is no definite date. It is coming soon that that is all they will say; yelling, moaning and crying isn't gonna make it come any sooner, just sit back and it will eventually come.
Hey All,
Long time lurker and consumer of ROMs for previous phones (Most recently the Razr) and recently decided it was time for an upgrade. I did my homework and it looks like the Galaxy S5 is the best phone out there in terms of features. I have grandfathered data on big red for now and I'd kind of like to keep it. I almost switched away because of how horrid VZ is being about locking their phones down, but I came across the Dev edition and figured I'd give it a go. It should be here Friday.
I've noticed that there's a flourishing community for the naively unlockable S5's but no such luck for the VZ phones, and that seems like a gap that I might be able to fill. I have a basic background into the parts of a ROM (Kernel, Bootloader, Libs, Recoveries) and do have a solid foundation of programming knowledge, but I have never built a rom nor ported one (nor written an app), so I'm popping a big cherry here.
I'm doing my research (xda-university, developer.android.com and some threads I found ) by searching and have a lot to learn, but I wanted to get some dev's perspective on what specifically I need to learn in order to successfully get started on S5 development.
First thing I'd like to do is go through the steps of building a 'beginner' ROM (Maybe an AOSP rom? or port an existing rom to the VZ dev edition? Might even just start with a de-bloat of the stock software) Basically I'd like to start getting my hands wet and learning what it takes to cook roms.
Specific questions i'd like to pose to the chefs/devs out there are:
Do you think a port or AOSP build is the best first step? If not, what should be?
What do I need to do to get started? Any additional guides or reading would be greatly appreciated.
What tools that I need to learn about?
Anything specific to Samsung / Galaxy devices that I won't find in the "General purpose" guides that I should google?
What should I NOT do in my first forays? I'm looking to cook roms, but not looking to have a $600 doorstop!
Finally, hopefully someone with more Samsung / Dev edition experience might be able to answer my last (and to me personally, most important) question:
From what I've read, it sounds like Samsung is crap about releasing OTAs / New Android builds that are compatible with the dev editions - Will this stop those of us that have dev editions from upgrading to further versions of android? A big reason I bought such a powerhouse of a phone is to somewhat future-proof it against future versions of android inevitably becoming more resource heavy. If we're not going to be able to upgrade I'm not sure I chose the right device.
Thanks in advance!!
-McAtom
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
socos25 said:
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
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With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
All good points, and I would have to say I agree with you, especially with the shame that developers sometimes are driven away by lazy users.
mxmr said:
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
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I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
mysongranhills said:
I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
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To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
arikdahn said:
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
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I just recently got off heavily modded stock and flashed Super S4 and so far it is awesome. Ktoonz's Kernel is baked in and after using recommended recovery to flash I've had no problems. It isn't heavily modded (mostly other mods baked in and some init.d tweaks) but is fast and stable and is one of the very few TW roms I'd recommend.
When I was on HTC Inspire 4G, There were easily 10 Roms (ASOP and Sense) suitable for a daily driver. For the S4 I'd be hard pressed to find 3 stable usable TW roms at a time.
I think android as a platform is changing a lot philosophically, as well. Older custom roms used to be a must have and were the main reason most users wanted root. Now everything is much more framework centric. Now root is used to add functionality through Xposed framework modules,or audio mods like Viper. Previously each and every mod had to be rom specific.