Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
socos25 said:
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
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Click to collapse
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
All good points, and I would have to say I agree with you, especially with the shame that developers sometimes are driven away by lazy users.
mxmr said:
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
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I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
mysongranhills said:
I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
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Click to collapse
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
arikdahn said:
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
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I just recently got off heavily modded stock and flashed Super S4 and so far it is awesome. Ktoonz's Kernel is baked in and after using recommended recovery to flash I've had no problems. It isn't heavily modded (mostly other mods baked in and some init.d tweaks) but is fast and stable and is one of the very few TW roms I'd recommend.
When I was on HTC Inspire 4G, There were easily 10 Roms (ASOP and Sense) suitable for a daily driver. For the S4 I'd be hard pressed to find 3 stable usable TW roms at a time.
I think android as a platform is changing a lot philosophically, as well. Older custom roms used to be a must have and were the main reason most users wanted root. Now everything is much more framework centric. Now root is used to add functionality through Xposed framework modules,or audio mods like Viper. Previously each and every mod had to be rom specific.
Related
I received this question in a private message earlier and though I'd share the answer with everyone. This topic can be used to answer the above/below question yourselves too and hopefully others can find it helpful and respond with their own opinions too.
Please don't reply directly to another comments but purely give your own opinion on the following question. I want this topic to be without fighting or slander!
I am curious to your opinions on a "good" rom?
(note the question in the PM too me was a bit more detailed so my answer goes into quite a few different factors, its up to you how detailed your answers are)
My opinions as to what makes a good rom. Very interesting question. There are many factors. Most important personally is the person who is developing it. I like the villain team because there is a whole team behind it and they are very easily accessible to ask questions and fix bugs etc. The support on their website is stunning. That's not to say all the devs who don't have a dedicated team and website aren't as good. Raudg (or the guy who created vanilla eclair and choco eclair) was awesome. Very good support, though last I heard he fell ill and hasn't been on since, which is why his rom's are now a bit outdated and I probably wouldn't recommend them. The elelinux and Floyo rom's are also meant to be brilliant and I would expect good support from both of those too. I'm still hesitant of using the Cronos rom's due to the history behind the developer. I also found during benchmarking no noticeable difference between the Cronos rom's and any of the others. I will say no more on the issue.
One big secret that the dev's tend not too let onto is that almost all rom's (performance wise) are almost identical. The main reason I haven't continued the benchmarks recently is because after spending about 5-6 days (9am to 9pm) benchmarking well over 20 different rom's every one felt almost identical to the last. None of them lagged any more than another, and although I picked up minor bugs every now and then in different rom's there was typically very little to differentiate them. I generally found that with use you got used to each rom and the minor annoyances either made me change rom or I would just live with it until it was fixed. Having said all of this there is a significant performance difference between Sense UI and Vanilla rom's. Vanilla rom's might not necessarily benchmark better but they consistently "felt" faster to use.
On that note, I don't think i would go back to v2.1 of android. I love vanilla (with launcher pro) too much too go back, and 2.1 is no where near as good as 2.2. Especially with emulated flash in the Skyfire browser now.
I'm yet too benchmark all the 2.2 rom's against each other. Purely because of the amount of time it takes to do, and the limits of the results.
So what would I recommend:
1. Don't be afraid too try other rom's. I can't stress enough how easy it is too flash rom's. As I said I flashed over 20 rom's in less than a week and had no issues. You can always get into the recovery menu so you can always go back to a backup of an old rom.
2. Back EVERYTHING up. Another thing I can't stress enough. You never know when something might happen. I backed up apps etc with titanium backup and the rom's with nandroid built into the recovery. I then backed up my sdcard (which stores these backups) onto my computer. SO i had backups of backups. As I said - can never be safe enough!
3. Love you're dev's. Leaving ****ty messages on their topics when something doesn't work never solves anything (not that I expect this of you). If something isn't working ask about it and give as much detail as possible. Its really hard to fix an issue when someone says "gps doesn't work". Solutions always lie in the detail.
4. Pick a release that is well supported. Check the thread last post date. Check the last edited date of the first post (with the release in it). Don't bother using any release that is more than 2 months old (typically) and if there hasn't been a post in the thread for over 1 week ask yourself why! The best rom's tend to have at least 1-2 posts a day and have been updated with some sort of fix/release within the last 2 weeks.
Finally, if you really want a list of my top 3 rom's at this point in time it would probably be:
1. FloydVillain 1.5 (due to the support & community)
2. Floyo 1.1.8 (due to the awesome feedback its been getting recently)
3. elelinux's Froyo 2.2_RC1 (due too it having an experienced dev)
I'd probably say that Fusion ROM 2.2.1.9 is worth checking out too, and Tegro 2.1.2 if you like the slide interface (i'm very tempted by this one). They are my wild card rom's at this point in time.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there,...
I have to agree and say that for me personally it does boil down to..........
1... Top priority... Who the developers are, are they still actively developing fixes for any bugs there may be in their ROMS? And also how well they communicate issues/news/advances back to the community as a whole, to both end users and other devs alike.
2... Low priority... amount of users / comments from users in thread. But this is not so important in comparison to the developers as the only way to be sure is by trying them out 1st hand.
So for me, I dont think I would even bother trying a ROM from a developer whos ethos I cannot share, but I have no problem running a buggy alpha ROM If I think my feedback will benefit the dev to bring fixes.
A ROM should have Sense UI. I won't install any Froyo ROM until there is a stable and everything-working Sense UI ROM for it. It's just too geeky to use without the Sense UI. The other thing is the team behind the ROM. I definitely prefer ROMs built from teams than ROMs built from one single guy. Villain are my favorite. I think that's all.
Is there a reason why the dev community cannot get behind cyanogenmod and still get donated to? Is there some kind of politics involved that will not allow this relationship? I just think I would like to see the effort into one project that is solid, without all the themes and "personal" touches you see with everything else.
In a word it doesnt seem like much progress is being made, except for some screenshots from the dude and an alpha build from eugene. If Eugene, Som, Codeworkxs thedudesandroid, and the rest of the vibrant devs worked on a gingerbread based cyanogenmod, it would benefit everyone.
Move me, flame me, just dont one line answer me.
Yours to change and modify:
https://github.com/CyanogenMod
Ideologies differ. Work ethics differ. I think a move like this would be destined to fail.
Have you personally experienced both Macnut and Nero? Both ROMS are outstanding. I think the more fragmented the ROMS are, the more ideas, experiments, and innovation will occur. I think to push devs to a single common platform would be both stifling and detrimental to the android modding community as a whole.
Besides, all the devs have the same problem... Drivers. Until we start seeing Gingerbread leaks, all devs would have the same stumbling block anyway, whether they are working as one, or separately.
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
angryPirate12 said:
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
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Click to collapse
This makes me moist.
d33dvb said:
Is there a reason why the dev community cannot get behind cyanogenmod and still get donated to? Is there some kind of politics involved that will not allow this relationship? I just think I would like to see the effort into one project that is solid, without all the themes and "personal" touches you see with everything else.
In a word it doesnt seem like much progress is being made, except for some screenshots from the dude and an alpha build from eugene. If Eugene, Som, Codeworkxs thedudesandroid, and the rest of the vibrant devs worked on a gingerbread based cyanogenmod, it would benefit everyone.
Move me, flame me, just dont one line answer me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my question for you, is why does it have to be cyanogenmod? Youre asking all devs to collaborate to come up with one big super-ROM, yet it will still only be under the name of one developer, Cyanogen?? This doesnt make much sense.
So basically what youre asking is, since you PERSONALLY would prefer to run cyanogenmod on your phone, you want all other Vibrant devs to concede their own projects to assist your personal favorite developer with his project??
Why doesnt CM help with a new Team Whiskey ROM?? If your answer is because CM is more popular and has more development-power in the Android world, then you have answered your own question in regards to the "politics" that may be behind it.
I feel a lot of people (not necessarily the OP) just seek the "cyanogenmod" title to their ROM, without even really knowing what it is. They just hear the name thrown around all over the place and want to feel like they are in the loop; which is just mindless, in my opinion.
Its great to have several devs, with several different projects. It gives the average user (non-dev) options, and different things to choose from and try.
If you went to a car show, and every car had the same exact engine in it, what would be interesting in that??
what a communist suggestion
I, personally, love that there are many diff ROM's to choose from. I love having that variety. I prefer <tw> ROM's, just because they theme it pretty much how I would theme a ROM (and they scream), If I was even remotely capable of Dev'ing. Eugene makes an awsome ROM too, But not to my personal taste. On my G1 I always used cm ROM's, but the way they work at this point that's not possible for a Vibrant. So I guess what I'm saying is, I'm glad they're not all concentrating on one ROM because we would still be waiting... stuck with RFS !
I just want that Cyanogen bluetooth stack on a regular (sans Touchwiz) Galaxy S rom with TV out. The Bluetoouth stack is the only reason why I am using Cyanogen outside of the speedy OS.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
I get what you mean but I have to say that I love flashing different devs roms & kernels, I would hate to be slave to one idea...I could have gone iOs for that.....get it iOs 4! I kill myself sometimes...
vibrant
GingerR2JL4
TopShelf10 said:
my question for you, is why does it have to be cyanogenmod? Youre asking all devs to collaborate to come up with one big super-ROM, yet it will still only be under the name of one developer, Cyanogen?? This doesnt make much sense.
So basically what youre asking is, since you PERSONALLY would prefer to run cyanogenmod on your phone, you want all other Vibrant devs to concede their own projects to assist your personal favorite developer with his project??
Why doesnt CM help with a new Team Whiskey ROM?? If your answer is because CM is more popular and has more development-power in the Android world, then you have answered your own question in regards to the "politics" that may be behind it.
I feel a lot of people (not necessarily the OP) just seek the "cyanogenmod" title to their ROM, without even really knowing what it is. They just hear the name thrown around all over the place and want to feel like they are in the loop; which is just mindless, in my opinion.
Its great to have several devs, with several different projects. It gives the average user (non-dev) options, and different things to choose from and try.
If you went to a car show, and every car had the same exact engine in it, what would be interesting in that??
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Click to collapse
Agreed. It seems to be the "you want what you can't have" theory. It's going to be funny when there is finally a CM ROM and all these same ppl that wanted it are going to wonder why CM is so plain looking and isn't themed up. It's an endless cycle. CM offers support to multiple devices, which gets their name out there. But I can promise you if you've ran ROMs such as Nero + voodoo, even the best running CM isn't going to "blow it away" in performance, maybe some fun features, but that'll about do it.
I'm satisfied with TWs stuff. All I'm hoping for is that we can get drivers written to do our own ASOP roms, so we can one day have 2.3 and beyond.
im curious about this as well and being that i have no clue, i feel completely authorized to put in my .02 that i thought the primary reason we dont have cm for the galaxy was due to lack of aosp/drivers...
LOL, you sad bunch of folks think I have never flashed a rom on the vibrant? Sure I have, but they are all roms based off of samsuck files, with a theme pushed on top. This requires some skill and understanding, but it does not make you a "ROM D3V"
I am not in any way trying to push everyone to cyanogenmod, I am trying to get the "real devs" to work on things like GPS drivers and such as a whole, to benefit everyone, you think the tricks we learn as a group you cannot then use as an individual? You cannot say I am communist (lmao) because I want the devs to work together, I suppose that what people say about XDA is true, the users who are flaming me make it unbearable to have a real conversation. I mean just look there are several "FANBOY" posts already, and we are on post 13. No wonder the real devs ficking hate XDA. The sole reason I personally like cyan is because of the testing that it goes through, to make sure embarrassing bugs dont happen often. He has developed a rom for my G1, then both my Mytouch's and just miss running it on my vibrant, thats all. My G1 is sitting here running CM 6.1.0 and my phone still sits here on Ginger Clone, the best there is right now.
FYI when there was lack of drivers on the Dream/Magic someone re-wrote them, mmkay?
It has always seemed that the devs share fairly well. While they don't work together on one project, they share what is needed and form teams of likeminded people to push out better and better products. If you want to see what happens when you get everyone together and make them all focus on one big new release look at samsung itself. These small teams can operate with greater freedom to build and release mods and roms as they see fit. Xda is about sharing info and improving our machines. Would we really want to have gingerbread today without all the options and flavors that different dev teams put together. If you say yes, that's fine, but I like the variety and am happy to wait for what's next.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Moved of: Samsung Vibrant > Vibrant Android Development
To: Samsung Vibrant > Vibrant General
CM is not really comparable to the XDA devs' ROMs. CM is a complete ground-up build from AOSP. Nero, Macnut, etc are not; they are mods of existing unofficial Samsung ROMs. (Not to imply that Eugene/Sombionix et al's work is anything less than quality).
mindaika said:
CM is not really comparable to the XDA devs' ROMs. CM is a complete ground-up build from AOSP. Nero, Macnut, etc are not; they are mods of existing unofficial Samsung ROMs. (Not to imply that Eugene/Sombionix et al's work is anything less than quality).
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Click to collapse
Yeah, that's the thing. The skill set involved in getting AOSP (and the rest of CM) building properly is a different skill set than modifying a Samsung released ROM.
The approaches are almost entirely opposite - whereas most ROMs here take what the vendor provides and replace the junky bits with stuff that works better, the AOSP-based ROMs such as CM start from a bare bones google source repository that never had any of that junk to begin with.
Both approaches have their merits. As should be obvious by now, the former results in much more rapid progress since you can start right away with a working build from Samsung. The latter approach can take substantially longer, since you don't have a working base to start from (especially with a device like the SGS, which has hardware very different from most CM-supported devices).
Eugene had an AOSP 2.1 rom pretty well built. Needed some kinks worked out, but there didn't seem to be a lot of interest because all everyone wanted was froyo. I'm sure we're probably see at least a couple of AOSP efforts if/when froyo officially drops.
angryPirate12 said:
i'm fairly certain all CM ROMs have been halted and work has been pushed to CM7.0 Gingerbread based. With the Nexus S (NS) being the same thing with a few minor difference to all the other SGS phones and the NS source being openly available for people, we should see a true Gingerbread CM ROM for all the SGS phones once they figure out the necessary changes to make our variants work. This time it should be easier, thanks to all the Devs who came before and figured out Samsung's ass-backwards way of doing things.
Time and patience will reward with the greatest Android ROM the world has ever seen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, codeworkx and the CMSGS team have stopped worked on 6.1 and (along with Supercurio and others) are working on an AOSP Gingerbread port for SGS.
It makes sense--no point in continuing to try to build a 2.2 without source when the 2.3 source is already out.
Now, I appreciate everything that these devs have had to offer. I've tried different Custom Roms (With Core Cell 3 being the most stable I've experienced, outside of the annoying Opera Mamory bug)...Android builds...and all that great efforts you guys Put forth.
I look at all these threads and Roms and see the same thing over and over...bugs...bugs....and more bugs...
The most stable Windows Rom I've truly experience is the stock one...lol...not being a smart a$$ at all. Everything just works. Take a registry editor to it and it's provided the most stable platform with Core Cell 3 a hair away from it.
Now, with Android, I see constant bug reports. I mean, people seem to have a great appreciation for the builds and love them, but it always follows up with a major bug...or even worse...lots of little bugs.
What I don't understand is why don't all you devs get together and build the "XDA" Custom Rom or "XDA" Android build that gets undiveded attention and all resources so to make it truly BUG free? Once that has been accomplished...then we can go ahead and try these test builds and play with them...
Now, I say this with a great deal of respect, having worked with developers before I know how fragile the ego's can be
It's also my experience with those same developers that taught me complete focus of resources surfaced the best result.
I mean, an effort like that is something I would pay...eeerrrrr....donate too.
Android seems to be the future for the HD2, at least I think so...some may have a different opinion...that's cool. But as much as I actually like WinMo 6.5...and WinMO 7 showing signs of being a demo at best on the HD2, Android has a future.
I think it would be a great idea for you guys to focus on one thing at a time until it's at a state you can consider it marketable...not that I'm saying that's what you should do...sell things and all.
I would even think it would be cool to take WinMo 6.5 and change it into something completely different and better than what Microsoft settled for...I always promote making Big Brother look silly with a superior view of their own product.
My point is...no matter what platform or approach...get together on it...I bet the result would be far more productive.
I fear though that this idea...no matter how much sense it makes...will not come to fruition...WHAT THE DEUCE!
Looking forward to your thoughts.
well i came up with this idea http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=902534 and would need a thew devs to work on it,about having our own unoficiall Android Rom,Something wich we can say is our own HD2 rom not direct ports if you know were im coming from and pretty much bug free and stable and fast.i know a thew devs came together to create nand so why not do it to create a rom
Thew?
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
Hah, bug free... That's an interesting idea. The last bug free thing I saw was my Nokia 3210. Since then even my microwave ovens get bugs.
The devs do work together for the most part... different problems get solved by different devs, and they credit each other. I think its amazing what they've accomplished. You should be more than happy with how well we have a port working. I never thought it would get as good as it has, especially as quick as it has. Just look at the Raphael or blackstone... they've been working on ports for those devices for years and are nowhere close to where we are, and might never be.
The devs are doing what they can. This is their hobby... they're gonna work on what interests them. You can't expect them to all work on what you want them to... they would lose interest and we wouldn't have so much innovation. Plus a little competition can bring the best out of a person.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Well most of the bugs in Android are at the kernel level, and there is already a group of developers working on that same piece of software together.
You also have to keep in mind, as other users in this thread have already said, that no software will be without bugs.
I guess...I just know with absolute confidence this idea will work best. Nonetheless, I understand. Also, it's not what I want?...its about completing a task these forums have already put in motion...just at a more effective manor.
i want sense build base on desire hd or z
its will be lite enuf to run from RAM and boot fast
the Data.img will be backed up in the nand but will work from SD card for better performance
that's what i think is perfect to me
RAM gives boot time and less battery drain
data.img on nand and sd card is for better iops and for backuping ur info fast with CWM
u can remove anything u dont use cos it wont be in the RAM
all most important things like email / messages / people browser will run from RAM to get the speed-est performance
As has been stated, aren't most the bugs pretty common to all builds in one way or another therefore indicating that the problem is at the programming level rather than the rom developer level.
IMHO find one you're happy with and take the bugs with a pinch of salt - the HD2 is still one of the most exciting handsets about and to have the ability to experiment with all this thanks to the ROM guys and the tools developers on here is just blooming fantastic!
Stop moaning and appreciate what we have here!
Personally, I think this is a bad idea.
I'm very happy to have multiple developers all working on different projects and supplying us with different ROMs. For example, I hate HTC Sense and prefer stock Android, but lots of people disagree with that and think Sense builds are superior.
If all the devs worked on only 1 ROM then that's all we'd have. 1 ROM. My phone would be the same as yours, and yours would be the same as every other person on the forum. That would be pretty darn boring! If you ask me, more choice is better.
"If everybody looked the same, we'd get tired of looking at each other."
I never said stop working on different flavors of Roms. Just focus on an XDA Rom. Once refined, let the flavors flow...right?
You know, I approach this topic from a respective and open discussion approach with an expressed curiosity at most and the best you can do is confuse it for moaning?
It's guys like you that start all the flaming, when you have people who are simply exchanging ideas.
There's always a few out of the bunch that can't resist being abrasive aka a$$holes while others are just chatting.
AGxM said:
As has been stated, aren't most the bugs pretty common to all builds in one way or another therefore indicating that the problem is at the programming level rather than the rom developer level.
IMHO find one you're happy with and take the bugs with a pinch of salt - the HD2 is still one of the most exciting handsets about and to have the ability to experiment with all this thanks to the ROM guys and the tools developers on here is just blooming fantastic!
Stop moaning and appreciate what we have here!
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Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?
Exactly!
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
How do you not see a need for developers?
Sent From My Toro+ via White Tapatalk
It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.
The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.
The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
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CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
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Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig
I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.
The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.
Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Let's be honest to ourselves here guys, out beloved Moto X Style was officially released in September which means this phone has now been out for at least 3 months and while all the effort that has since been put in this devices by key developers and people from day 1 up till now is very much appreciated and will continue to be appreciated, the development of this device compared to most flagships has been slow motion.
I am just trying to understand what the hell went wrong with this phone that made it end up with such super slow motion development, as when I originally bought the device I was thinking this phone would be at least in the top 20 most active phones on XDA development wise.
It had so much going for it, easy root, easy unlockable bootloader, a pretty much almost complete stock version of android, kernel sources released and motorolas good track record of updating their flagship phones in a timely manner and good hardware to accompany the great bloatware free stock software and a cheap price compared to some other flagships from other companies such as Samsung and Sony
With all this in mind I thought developers would flock to this device and we would have a massive development forum with loads of options between custom roms, mods, themes and other tweaks etc
But this is far from the case and I know the Nexus 6P being released probably had something to do with it, Still this should have been at least in top 20
At first I thought when Android 6.0 MM will be released development will increase then we needed the kernel sources as that was apparently not enough, then we had kernel sources but apart from 1 or 2 roms showing up being in alpha stages nothings changed too much.
This is such a disappointment to say the least.
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?
djsynth said:
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?
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Click to collapse
I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.
When i had the one plus one there were so many roms that was a brain storm... I prefer some and reliable roms than a plethora where you get confused!!!
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
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4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
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Click to collapse
IMO you hit the nail on the head. I love this phone. I had the MXPE 2014 as well, was not a fan. Also owned the original, Loved it.
This MXPE has been great in imo, the lack of development has not been disappointing to me. The stock rom is really pretty good, there are minor tweaks that can be done but most can do these on their own.
I used to be a flash-aholic, but like @GretaLewd has stated...custom roms tend to break things. I'm more in favor of kernel development. But how many different kernels can you have? One way or another they'll be the same.
I also own a Nexus 6P, but my MXPE is my go to device.
I see users complaining about this phone constantly, I really don't think it matters what phone you put in the hands of those users...they would still find fault and complain.
Motorola and Lenovo did good by this device, I just hope they keep up with incrementals for a while.
Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Good thread. Would love to hear more thoughts
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Ordered the device today. Hope slow development doesn't disappoint me on this device, as others have stated...
I have been using this device for 2 months now. I am happy with it an didn't face a single issue. I can do a little bit tweaking myself using Xposed.
So far the slow development doesn't bother me.
Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.
chrisund123 said:
Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.
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That's a good way to approach Android phones I suppose but I believe
it's still nice to buy a phone that's great out of the box and good development wise, usually flagships tend to have good development and then the mid range and low end phones tend to get smaller developments but I guess there's an exception to everything.
patt2k said:
Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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I doubt that's the reason since 64 Bit has been the standard since Lollipop and pretty much all the flagships have a 64bit cpu since the beggining of 2015 but that doesn't stop other development forums from flourishing.
GretaLewd said:
I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your break down on your thoughts of the subject and I must admit you've mention some very valid points here especially Point 1,2 and 5 but I think out of all of these its Point 1 and 2 that are the most significant, I suppose Motorola have a really small market share explains the lack of adoption between developers when comparing to some of the more prominent manufacturers such as samsung.
and The Android Stock OS has improved significantly within the past couple of years adding some new features that previously people had to root their phones to acomplish such as full app permission controls and backing up app data which google does for you now.
You need to follow development before buying a device these days. i.e. always wait at least 1-2 months. If you follow the development forums you would get an idea if developers are interested in said device or not. I for one, bought it right after I found out that AICP (CM12) rom was being developed. I was interested in running CM13 instead of other AOSP variations. And before I got the device the first (almost daily driver) builds were already uploaded.
Once cm is solid quite a few roms will pop up. Won't be long now.
Official MM has only been out for our phone for a little over a month. give it some time it may pick up. either way it's still an awesome phone out the box... and as stated above, once CM13 is stable im sure we'll see some of the other custom ROMs that are based off it.
GretaLewd said:
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
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This is a great point, but I'd like to add that this is especially applicable to our MXPE. We're really close to stock as it is, so there's little motivation to go ROM to debloat like there is on Samsung, LG, and similar phones. On the flip side, we have a lot of really neat features (active display, approach, accelerator gestures, voice controls) that we would lose if we went ROM.
For me, these two points combine, leaving me with little motivation to ROM my phone, especially since I can could get most of the advantages of CyanogenMod with something like GravityBox, which will allow me to keep the Motorola features (I'm currently unrooted because of the warranty, but I'll be rooted in the future for sure) . Of course, these are my own personal opinions, but I suspect that they reflect at least some of the mindset of this community.
I agree with others, that custom roms are often more trouble than they're worth. The only reason to use them these days is if your device isn't going to be updated to the latest version of Android.
Ever since moto introduced 99% stock android + moto display, roms have been entirely unnecessary for me. I used to rom my phones to gain greater flexibility + customizability. Now that I have stock android + Xposed, I doubt I will ever flash another custom rom again.
I'm still waiting for custom super roms that will make this device best in the market. Why can we have a rom with 1080p display, tweak kernel with better control for heating issue for overall battery life and speed?
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
The biggest issue is that developers don't support devices they don't own. With the launch of the nexus 6 (not the 6p) most developers got it and had no need to update to a y newer devices.
Also to the comment that all flag ships are 64 bit this is not the case. If you look the most popular devices as far as developers are concerned are non 64 bit.
Also as android matures you will see less and less roms. As it will be come harder. There are very few real development teams. Most are just kitchen sink roms. A base with tons of cherry picks and a new name. Nothing even worth looking at twice. But more developers are closing up the source of their projects because of these types of roms.
To be honest most users have no point in flashing roms. Only those that like the development side of it will continue to mod roms and flash things.