We are going to introduce several important members of Flyme. And the first issue of this series would be----- face to face Q&A with the System Development Manager --- Pony Chou.
Introduction:
Pony Chou, joined Meizu in 2007, is one of the key developers of Flyme. After several years of hardworking and brilliant performance, he became the Technical Director of Flyme in 2013. And this year, after a major department structure adjustment inside Flyme, he is appointed as the general manager of Flyme System Development.
(FF would be Flyme Forum)
FF: Hi Pony, thank you for your time to do this interview. I think most of our forum users are not that familiar with your work, can you briefly describe your work so that they can know a little more?
Pony: OK. Greetings to all Flyme Forum users. As you can see now I am the general manager of Flyme System Development, which means my main job is to make Flyme a better system, to lead the team --- actually we have several teams for different system modules --- to build a system that is more smooth, stable and power-saving.
FF: That sounds an incredibly complicated job. What part did you work on, when you first join Meizu?
Pony: Well, like everybody else, I started with the very basic work, coding, solving bugs... When I joined the project of Flyme, I was in charge of the multi-media part, like music, video, etc. And after 2 years I was shifted to do the system frameworks and apps, and after that I was appointed to supervise this whole Flyme project.
FF: As Flyme's technical director?
Pony: Yes.
FF: So, I got a few questions about Flyme that are concerned by our forum users. The first one would be when Flyme 5 is going to rollout Android 6?
Pony: The new models which will be released in 2016 will all built on Androd 6.
FF: And what about those models before 2016? Will Flyme provide an update?
Pony: I think for previous models, the main task for Flyme is to keep the firmware as stable and smooth as possible. Android 6 has not much modifications or highlights in functions. Some functions sucn as permission control, fingerprint, fast charge, etc are actually already acheived on Flyme 5. If we cannot upgrade to Android 6, we'll do our best to add more features to Flyme to compensate that.
FF: That's really exciting. Then when would Flyme 5 be available for models other than MX5 and PRO 5?
Pony: We actually have done it in Chinese mainland, but for global version, we need to do more testing for compatibility and performance. So please feel assured because Flyme 5 WILL be available for every device after MX4.
FF: So MX4 and MX4 Pro are also getting Flyme 5?
Pony: Yes. It might take longer time, but it will be available for these two models.
FF: As long as we are here, I think many users would have the same confusion as mine: why global version is always way too behind the Chinese version?
Pony: Flyme was not that internationalized before, but as we are getting more and more users around the globe, we have to consider more about users outside China. Thus for every version that is going to be released, we have to test the compatibility first. We got many feedbacks that some apps are not working properly on Flyme, that's the issue we're going to fix here. And also, we need time to translate the system languages.
FF: So will it still be several months gap between A and G versions?
Pony: There will be, but much closer. This year we're trying to release G version only 1 month later than A version.
FF: That's great. Our users will be delighted.
FF: There is another issue related to upgrading. What is the updating cycle for every device model?
Pony: You mean Flyme monthly or weekly firmware upgrading?
FF: No I mean after a model is released, how long will Flyme provide upgrade for each model?
Pony: Well, it is safe to say that we guarantee the updating for each model will at least last 24 months.
FF: So the models get upgrades in at least 2 years. What about the open source issue of Flyme? A lot of users were asking about that, will Flyme be open-sourced?
Pony: The kernel code will be released, but the Flyme part will not be open-sourced. We are an OS with system-level customization, it's not likely to open the source code.
FF: Flyme did adaptations for other brands, will we be doing that in the future?
Pony: Yes, on some popular devices such as Samsung, OnePlus, Mi or other brands.
FF: About the Flyme versions, what's the differences between A and G version, or IN version?
Pony: The system features are basically the same. What's different is the content provided in each version. Right now we have few multi-media content in G or IN version, but we are now contacting international content providers, try to bring more services to our users.
FF: Then compare to other smartphone operating systems, what do you think is the highlight of Flyme?
Pony: The first impression of most users is that Flyme is very light colored, and the visual design is nicer than most of the other operating systems. And for the perfomance, Flyme, especially Flyme 5 is really smooth and some users joked that it's so smooth it does not resemble any previous Meizu or Flyme product. And the features are easy to grasp, users can learn it instantly because the interactions are also very simple but effective.
FF: Thanks for your patient answers, one more, we know that Meizu will be having a launch event in India around April, will we be expecting your attendance?
Pony: I might. Maybe I can be a mysterious guest among all the fans.
FF: Great! Can you say something to our forum users?
Pony: Thanks for continually contributing to this forum and to Flyme. We'll listen to you, and cherish every feedback and suggestion. Flyme will be better! Thank you.
FF: Thank you, Pony.
Source: FlymeOS Forum
Are you a member of FlymeOS Forum or a member of meizu company?
From the interview I understand that all the devices before 2016 will not have Marshmallow!
Here in this forum we discussed a lot about the Android upgrade issue and the facts, that we don't get the source codes. I thought it's Xiaomi's fault, other say it's Mediatek's fault. I still don't know. I just know that I want to get a new phone instead of that crappy device. So I checked for alternatives and discovered the Umi Z.
It looked interesting and not too expensive but when I read a review there was a point saying something about Android Updates. The Umi Z has MM and on their social media or website they announced, that the Umi Z will get an update to Nougat, but the problem is, that Mediatek didn't release the source codes yet to allow them to update their Android.
So that sounds very familiar and weird. Is Mediatek really so obsessed with their source codes and why do they do that? I mean, what do they lose? This kind of behaviour would rather make people stay away from Mediatek devices. But I guess there are enough people just happy without custom roms, updates and source codes.
Can it be, that Umi just said that to blame someone else for lack of updates? The difference between Umi and Xiaomi is that Umi has a normal Android surface and not an own like Miui. But at least they keep their customers up-to-date, inform them and show interest in updating. And they announced, that they plan an update for April. I don't know how they can be confident but I wouldn't wonder if they won't get their update in April, May or June.
So in conclusion, I think it's the fault of both, Xiaomi and Mediatek and I want to stay away from both in future. I'm thinking about getting a Sony, or if I get a chinese brand again then a Snapdragon and for sure no Xiaomi!
The answer to this is we are dealing with "fabless" companies i.e. they do not actually make anything themselves but outsource to companies that do.
It is the miriad of screens, sensors etc, that cause the problems with Android upgrades, not the use of MTK or Qualcomm SoC. MTK does release source code (occassionally) - users are disappointed when they find that it is almost useless because it does not include vendor blobs for their specific hardware platform - that is the fault of the vendor - not MTK. We have had MTK source for MT6795 for a long time now.
At least some China phone brands like UMI (but definitely excluding Xiaomi) have truth in their advertising and go to lengths to point out what brand and model of ancillary parts go into making the whole
My concerns about ROMs are exacerbated by the outcome of this attempt to host an official UMI ROM and also this attempt. If the report is true, one might presume that perhaps UMI have a good reason to seek to prevent people from hosting their official ROMs, but it still makes me wary ...
To all those who want to know more about Project Treble please use this thread to discuss about it.
What is Project Treble?
Ans. Treble is the most significant low-level change to the Android platform to date. To simplify heavily, it separates the vendor implementation from the Android framework in an effort to avoid lengthy waits for updates. . Let’s break things down a bit more:
The full update process to bring a new Android version to devices is a long and complex topic.
The “vendor” usually refers to silicon-manufacturers such as Qualcomm, but can also refer to the maker of any other proprietary hardware found in a device. The “device maker” or “OEM” usually needs to wait for the vendor to update their code so the proprietary hardware works with the Android OS framework in a newer version of Android.
However, what is happening with Project Treble is that Google is requiring that any vendor-specific code be separated from the Android OS framework and instead live in its own vendor implementation. Usually this means that there is now a separate /vendor partition on Treble-enabled smartphones that contains a bunch of HALs (Hardware Abstraction Layers).
Furthermore, vendors must implement code that lets the Android OS framework communicate with HALs in a standardized way. This is done via HIDL (HAL Interface Definition Language). With this in place, an OEM can work on an Android update without having to wait on vendors to update their HALs. Theoretically, this should speed up the entire Android update process as vendors can update their code at any time through the Play Store.
For indepth information check out this pagehttps://www.androidauthority.com/project-treble-818225/
Devices with Treble support:
- Essential PH-1
- Google Pixel
- Google Pixel XL
- HTC U11 Plus
- Huawei Honor 8 Pro
- Huawei Mate 9
- Huawei Mate 10 Pro
- Sony Xperia XZ1
- Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact
- Asus Zenfone 4 (ZE554KL)
- Honor V10
- Huawei P10/ P10 Plus
Devices which will ship with Android 8.0 Oreo will be Treble compatible by default.
Older devices will become treble compatible if the OEM creates a vendor partition via OTA update, like the Honor 8 Pro.
Custom Roms:
As of now @phhusson is working hard to make his AOSP rom boot as a fully functional rom on all the Treble supported devices, go check out the rom thread here https://forum.xda-developers.com/pr...evelopment/experimental-phh-treble-t3709659"]
Check Treble Compability
Open a terminal app on your device and simply type the following command:
getprop ro.treble.enabled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it returns a boolean value true, your device supports Treble and if false it doesn’t.
[NOTE: New devices with Treble support are launching so its not possible for me to update the supported device list, so they'll not make their name on my list, but you can surely ask about your device on the discussion thread]
My understanding of Treble is, from the *big picture* anyway, that the responsibility for hardware access shifts from Google to the individual device mfgs.
The hope for us is that new versions of Android can be distributed much more rapidly, because testing of new hardware (or changes to existing hdw) won't have to wait for the new OS to be done, and that the interface to the hdw will be separate from the OS.
Another hope would be that a devices 'life span' would increase? (or at least stay current longer).
AsItLies said:
My understanding of Treble is, from the *big picture* anyway, that the responsibility for hardware access shifts from Google to the individual device mfgs.
The hope for us is that new versions of Android can be distributed much more rapidly, because testing of new hardware (or changes to existing hdw) won't have to wait for the new OS to be done, and that the interface to the hdw will be separate from the OS.
Another hope would be that a devices 'life span' would increase? (or at least stay current longer).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Treble means separating the vendor source from the software source, the treble devices will have a separate vendor partition, in which the vendor source will be. Now the manufacturers will only require to make the Software bug free so that the user dosent face any problems in day to day usage. From @phhussons AOSP treble rom we can get a clear picture that by separating the vendor source, the Treble based AOSP roms will run on any Treble compatible device regardless of the SOC/hardware configuration.
venom928 said:
Treble means separating the vendor source from the software source, the treble devices will have a separate vendor partition, in which the vendor source will be. <snip>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah yes that makes sense, it's not only the hardware source (vendor specific), it's also the vendors software (their mods and bloatware) that will be in the separate partition.
It really does sound as though this should speed up the time it takes for users to get updates of all kinds. It also seems pretty certain, non-Treble enabled devices will fall by the wayside. Doesn't seem there's any way around that?
AsItLies said:
Ah yes that makes sense, it's not only the hardware source (vendor specific), it's also the vendors software (their mods and bloatware) that will be in the separate partition.
It really does sound as though this should speed up the time it takes for users to get updates of all kinds. It also seems pretty certain, non-Treble enabled devices will fall by the wayside. Doesn't seem there's any way around that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For non-treble devices the only way is that the OEMs must release an OTA update which will create a separate Vendor partition, but OEMs won't do(except some recent flagships) that bcz they want sales of newer devices with Treble support. As far as time is concerned, suppose it takes 2-3months for an OEM to build a fully bug free update, but it will require 3-4weeks for the OEM to build that same update
venom928 said:
For non-treble devices the only way is that the OEMs must release an OTA update which will create a separate Vendor partition
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it seems the consensus is that mfg's won't risk bricking the phones by doing that kind of an OTA update? We'll see fairly soon what they'll do with the older devices.
It's good that google is calling the shots with this and is insisting new Oreo devices have it. It's bad though that devices just a few months old that cost mucho bucks may go without it.
AsItLies said:
Yes, it seems the consensus is that mfg's won't risk bricking the phones by doing that kind of an OTA update? We'll see fairly soon what they'll do with the older devices.
It's good that google is calling the shots with this and is insisting new Oreo devices have it. It's bad though that devices just a few months old that cost mucho bucks may go without it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The honor 8 pro got Treble via OTA because it was one of the best selling device, but some OEMs will prefer not to do that so that customers will shift to newer devices. Like OnePlus could have easily added Treble to atleast 5/5T but they thought of not doing it, just depends upon the OEM
venom928 said:
The honor 8 pro got Treble via OTA because it was one of the best selling device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I did not know that, thanks. I better read more of the Treble threads to keep up to date
AsItLies said:
Wow, I did not know that, thanks. I better read more of the Treble threads to keep up to date
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep surely
Mate 9 as well
AsItLies said:
Wow, I did not know that, thanks. I better read more of the Treble threads to keep up to date
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate 9 got treble as well with the Oreo update, major repartitioning as well.
revjamescarver said:
Mate 9 got treble as well with the Oreo update, major repartitioning as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate 9 is in the list bro, check OP
revjamescarver said:
Mate 9 got treble as well with the Oreo update, major repartitioning as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Neighbor. Huawei is rapidly moving to the top of my list of phone mfg to buy. It doesn't look like the kirin processors have much los support, but with treble... well, it seems previous prerequisites are being turned upside down.
For sure, when one evaluates (buying) a phone, many factors are relevant. But for most (if not all) of us, how long the phone will stay up to date is probably at the top of that list.
Hope the other mfg's follow Huawei's lead here, else we'll have a lot of recently mfg phones with outdated sftwr soon.
AsItLies said:
Thanks Neighbor. Huawei is rapidly moving to the top of my list of phone mfg to buy. It doesn't look like the kirin processors have much los support, but with treble... well, it seems previous prerequisites are being turned upside down.
For sure, when one evaluates (buying) a phone, many factors are relevant. But for most (if not all) of us, how long the phone will stay up to date is probably at the top of that list.
Hope the other mfg's follow Huawei's lead here, else we'll have a lot of recently mfg phones with outdated sftwr soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huawei is the 3rd most fastest growing OEM after Apple and Samsung. What stops me from buying a Honor Device is the Kirin SOC and apps like Google Camera port dosent work on the devices except devices with Snapdragon SOC, so will wait for a device with the specs like the Mi A1 and a 18:9 display
venom928 said:
Huawei is the 3rd most fastest growing OEM after Apple and Samsung. What stops me from buying a Honor Device is the Kirin SOC and apps like Google Camera port dosent work on the devices except devices with Snapdragon SOC, so will wait for a device with the specs like the Mi A1 and a 18:9 display
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good point. So even with Treble, which SOC (the phone has) will still be relevant in some respects. I have a G6 and think a wide angle lens is da bomb, but could easily do without all the glass 'bling'.
Kirin SoC
venom928 said:
Huawei is the 3rd most fastest growing OEM after Apple and Samsung. What stops me from buying a Honor Device is the Kirin SOC and apps like Google Camera port dosent work on the devices except devices with Snapdragon SOC, so will wait for a device with the specs like the Mi A1 and a 18:9 display
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing at all wrong with the Kirin SoC, performance is on par with the Qualcomm SoC, only real downfall is that Huawei doesn't sell the Kirin to other oems, otherwise it would be more widespread. The Kirin 970 with its built in NPU and and gigabit LTE modem is going to give the Qualcomm 835/845 a run for their money. Of course the port of the new Google camera app is not going to give you more than the basic functionality as it was written specifically for Google pixel devices (it doesn't give you all the features on older Google or snapdragon devices either), I installed the port on my mate 9 and it was acceptable for basic camera functions but no matter what you do you're never going to get a port of something written for another device to have the same features or performance as the stock app written for your device.
revjamescarver said:
Nothing at all wrong with the Kirin SoC, performance is on par with the Qualcomm SoC, only real downfall is that Huawei doesn't sell the Kirin to other oems, otherwise it would be more widespread. The Kirin 970 with its built in NPU and and gigabit LTE modem is going to give the Qualcomm 835/845 a run for their money. Of course the port of the new Google camera app is not going to give you more than the basic functionality as it was written specifically for Google pixel devices (it doesn't give you all the features on older Google or snapdragon devices either), I installed the port on my mate 9 and it was acceptable for basic camera functions but no matter what you do you're never going to get a port of something written for another device to have the same features or performance as the stock app written for your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that the Kirin Processors are good, and the reason is Kirin is Huawei's home made processor so the pairing between Hardware and Software is perfectly optimisez for better performance and as far as Better Processing is concerned, after Apple Qualcomm holds the 2nd position no doubt, yeah in near future Kirin might surpass Qualcomm interms of performance no idea.
As far as the ported app is concerned I prefer stock android/custom roms over stock roms(MIUI/EMUI) and if someone ports the stock huawei camera for Los/RR running on Huawei devices itself, I'll surely go with a Kirin device but right now thats not available so after installing a custom rom I'll prefer Google camera app, if not the ported one, I'll go with the one available in Apkmirror, though this is my own preference as I'm addicted to using stock android and google apps suite, lets see how much development the Honor 7X gets, if it gets Treble support via OTA I'll go with it else the Mi A1 as of now is my 1st choice
I'm wondering, and the answer may be 'We don't know yet', but...
Many of us have used custom ROM's to avoid using an OEM's UI, bloatware, etc. Because Treble enabled phones will have a 'Vendor' partition (which will include these UI's etc), will that then mean the mfg's specific stuff can't really be (completely) removed the way an after market ROM does?
Of course, there's always ways of disabling mfg stuff, but Roms like Los just do it all in one fell swoop (much easier).
Do we know at this point how this will work with Treble?
Cheers and Happy New Year
AsItLies said:
I'm wondering, and the answer may be 'We don't know yet', but...
Many of us have used custom ROM's to avoid using an OEM's UI, bloatware, etc. Because Treble enabled phones will have a 'Vendor' partition (which will include these UI's etc), will that then mean the mfg's specific stuff can't really be (completely) removed the way an after market ROM does?
Of course, there's always ways of disabling mfg stuff, but Roms like Los just do it all in one fell swoop (much easier).
Do we know at this point how this will work with Treble?
Cheers and Happy New Year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SOC source code will reside in the vendor partition, for example The Pixel XL has SD835 so the source code of the SOC will be there in itz Vendor partition. So if you are using a Treble enabled device such as the Huawei Mate 9 which has its own custom UI, if u flash a custom rom on it, the stock OS will get completely removed and the run ROM will run on it.
The Mgf's UI is a part of the system nd not of the vendor partition.
I am planning to buy Honor 7x, I found a thread on 7X forum which has Mount points and partition layout details for 7x. In the details, i can see below line, does this mean that phone supports Treble once updated to Oreo?
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Dec 24 10:46 vendor -> /dev/block/mmcblk0p47
Orignal thread link
https://forum.xda-developers.com/honor-7x/development/mount-partition-layout-profile-xml-t3727990
Thanks:good: in advance!!
indigo110 said:
I am planning to buy Honor 7x, I found a thread on 7X forum which has Mount points and partition layout details for 7x. In the details, i can see below line, does this mean that phone supports Treble once updated to Oreo?
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Dec 24 10:46 vendor -> /dev/block/mmcblk0p47
Orignal thread link
https://forum.xda-developers.com/honor-7x/development/mount-partition-layout-profile-xml-t3727990
Thanks:good: in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is evident from past experiences that the Honor 7X might get Treble via OTA update as the case was with Honor 8 Pro. The Honor 7X's source code got released a few weeks ago and I got some info that the Open Kirin team will also support the 7X so I guess the Open Kirin team will also release a Treble supported rom
I guess we are done for security updates. It has been right at 2 years. Sad thing is, this is still a great little phone. I am not in the mood to root and tinker with issues. I wished there was a stable ROM out there to use. I wished that LineageOS would pick this little jewel up. Oh, well. It has been a good 2 years of a small, but very informative community of X Compact users.
I am still searching for a small phone replacement since Sony does not make small phones anymore. Post here if you have any recommendations.
Cheers!
del
I feel you. I think I've said it before on this forum, but I really don't get why there isn't a lineageos build for this phone. Lots of sony xperia phones have official lineageos builds and there even is an unofficial build for this device (so it's not exactly impossible to build).
That being said, I generally prefer omnirom and luckily they are supporting this device. I've been on omnirom 8.1 for ages and haven't encountered a bug yet, so imho it can definitely be considered stable. Right now I'm using a self-built omnirom 9.0 (security patch level 5 november 2018) as a daily driver and for a pre-official build it is already pretty stable. Sony's 'Pie' software binaries (which thankfully they still provide) are still in beta, so coupled with the omnirom team efforts the stability will only increase.
Bottom line for smartphone manufacturers: Just provide what is needed for the open source community to flourish, it'll cost you next to nothing and will pay you back in goodwill many times over.
Next upcoming problem is the lack of support for the Project Treble in Xperia X series devices which at least may cause significant delay in releasing ROMs based the newer Android versions or in the worst case might result in stopping their development as the successor - XZ1 series - supports it. I hope developers will follow the Z5 series path as there already is LineageOS for these. And hopefully some Xiaomi devices path as there are devices which now have unofficial support of the Project Treble.
BTW, we should also thank to the Google for an unwise cycle of releasing new Android version every year which accelerates fragmentation significantly as its main reason seems to be to persuade people to buy newer devices with latest version of Andoid OS on board.
harryharryharry said:
Lots of sony xperia phones have official lineageos builds and there even is an unofficial build for this device (so it's not exactly impossible to build).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose more recent Sony smartphones have been sold in significantly lower quantities than older ones (I read many times about Sony's smartphones poor sales numbers) and it might be the reason of a smaller community gathered around those newer devices.
Software security updates stopped?
If Sony stops providing software updates after 2y, it means those of us with a Sony Xperia X Compact (F5321) are unable to add Work e-mail accounts as the Microsoft Intune app requires an Android software update dated May 2019.
This silly policy by Sony is preventing me from adding my work O365 account to the device and means I am very unlikely to buy another Sony mobile phone ever again as its usable life is 2 years max. I am actually quite raging because I like the phone -this is beyond stupid from Sony.
RTV_1974 said:
If Sony stops providing software updates after 2y, it means those of us with a Sony Xperia X Compact (F5321) are unable to add Work e-mail accounts as the Microsoft Intune app requires an Android software update dated May 2019.
This silly policy by Sony is preventing me from adding my work O365 account to the device and means I am very unlikely to buy another Sony mobile phone ever again as its usable life is 2 years max. I am actually quite raging because I like the phone -this is beyond stupid from Sony.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
use browser.
intune sucks anyway.
RTV_1974 said:
If Sony stops providing software updates after 2y, it means those of us with a Sony Xperia X Compact (F5321) are unable to add Work e-mail accounts as the Microsoft Intune app requires an Android software update dated May 2019.
This silly policy by Sony is preventing me from adding my work O365 account to the device and means I am very unlikely to buy another Sony mobile phone ever again as its usable life is 2 years max. I am actually quite raging because I like the phone -this is beyond stupid from Sony.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This device has pretty lackluster support even in the dev community as well. All it's really got going for it atm but fortunately we have Lineage 17.1 and Project Treble. I recommend flashing a new rom if you don't want to switch phones.