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Hello!
Some of you maybe have noticed that when the Galaxy S faces the sun, in auto-brightness mode, the color are suddenly boosted by a crazy amount in an attempt to preserve color saturation perception despite the incoming light.
Do you think this is a useful feature helping readability or does it do more harm than good ?
I can disable or tweak it very easily in Voodoo color. I have mixed feelings about this, that's why it's still on, but some people asked me to disable it.
I need your opinion and experience
Please don't vote if you don't understand what it is about and never experienced it.
Thanks !
Note: this color boost is associated only to the automatic 100% brightness level.
that is actually just brightness at 65% or higher
by default on regular operation when the brightness is set to auto it is always below 50% that's why people complain about colour being pale and such
if you set the brightness to 65% or more you can appreciate the full bloom effect of the SAMOLED screen vs AMOLED
i use a simple brightness widget to set it how i want, but it's mostly on auto, except when i want to WOW! people
@AllGamer we don't talk about the same thing.
It's not the standard brightness level, that's something that append only in the situation I described
If you are lucky enough to have a sunny day you can try it by yourself.
I didn't manage to reproduce it using artificial lights, seems that any light i have is not as bright as the sun ^^
i do use the phone outdoor almost on a daily basis, specially during lunch time when we walk to the restaurants meanwhile checking for emails, forums, weather, prices, another restaurant nearby, etc, etc.
so i've seen the screen colour/brightness changes in many different occassions.
unless there is another method to control the colour without controlling the brightness and vice versa, then i'm pretty sure i'm getting the same effects when i manually slide the brightness bar all the way to 100%, 85%, 75%, and 65%
anything less than 60% wont show the blooming colour effect
sorry @AllGamer, you don't get yet ^^
I don't know if you read the original post?
I can show you the source code in kernel if this is necessary.
This special color boost (really extreme color boost) appends:
In auto brightness mode
When it's bright enough to make the auto-brightness mode reach the 100% level (named gamma 24)
When already at auto 100% and screen facing the sun.
Well, that's not so bad, it's just a poll
Here is the link to the source
http://github.com/project-voodoo/sa...nux-2.6.29/drivers/sensor/optical/gp2a.c#L329
Code:
if(autobrightness_mode)
{
if(current_gamma_value == 24)&&(level_state == LIGHT_LEVEL4)
So far I've only experienced that once in my 3 month old SGS. I usually use it indoors.
I think you can replicate that by ticking Outdoor Visibility in the camera app.
Seen it alot of times, It does seem to help quite well, So i say keep it
DaRkMyk said:
I think you can replicate that by ticking Outdoor Visibility in the camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, that is what i call the colour blooming effect, just like in the PC blooming effect on the video cards
DaRkMyk said:
So far I've only experienced that once in my 3 month old SGS. I usually use it indoors.
I think you can replicate that by ticking Outdoor Visibility in the camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely! the Outdoor mode in Camera and Video apps are similar (but are triggered manually)
AllGamer said:
yeah, that is what i call the colour blooming effect, just like in the PC blooming effect on the video cards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
woops... just tried the Outdoor Visibility and it is not the same as what I experienced before. You really must be outside & under the bright sun. I'll try it again tomorrow.
it just does it to the entire screen but stronger, there is an widget to control screen modes and it can be toggled manually when set to 100%
supercurio said:
@AllGamer we don't talk about the same thing.
It's not the standard brightness level, that's something that append only in the situation I described
If you are lucky enough to have a sunny day you can try it by yourself.
I didn't manage to reproduce it using artificial lights, seems that any light i have is not as bright as the sun ^^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I pointed at the sensor with a 12LED flashlight (Need to be quite close for the blooming effect to activate, ~5-10cm), and it bloomed away after 3-5 seconds.
I've never been bothered by it and never really noticed it in bright light, so I would think it's a positive feature that helps readability in strong sunlight.
AllGamer said:
it just does it to the entire screen but stronger, there is an widget to control screen modes and it can be toggled manually when set to 100%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cannot reach this mode with manual controls.
It depends on data measured by the light sensor, it's in kernel.
well i guess i'll have to install your Modifications, to see if there's really a difference
but from my point of view, when the level at set to 100% looks the same as when the phone is working outdoor under bright sunlight 12 noon lunch time.
AllGamer said:
well i guess i'll have to install your Modifications, to see if there's really a difference
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's in every standard kernel!
Ok, I give up ^^
I say keep it. It seems like it would be functional. Looking forward to the warmer colors at more brightness levels, as my phone very rarely runs at 100% brightness.
What I don't like (maybe others agree?) is the sudden drop in brightness at low ambient light levels (not complete darkness).
Thanks for your work on the color issue. This is really what I look forward most to in future voodoo releases!
well it'll definitely be nice to be able to access the bloom effect under low brightness level
i like more colours
i was under the impression supercurio was coding something to do that
Anything that makes the screen better in the sun is a good thing.
Even with the SAMOLED, things can sometimes be harder to see outside, especially while web browsing.
It doesn't matter if the colors are off in the pictures when you can't even read the web page.
Is it possible to make these sort of things configurable by an app on the phone?
Or must these sort of settings be hard-coded into the kernel?
While we really like the AMOLED+ display for its deep blacks, it also has major flaws:
- Severe black crush (loss of shadow details in dark scenes) when power saving is disengaged (which is the only way to obtain decent brightness)
- Greenish white, which becomes bluish after a few weeks of operation
- Oversaturated greens
- Loss of brightness after a few weeks of use
- Yellowish areas on the screen produced by the deterioration of AMOLED cells through heat, particularly prominent for gamers and overclockers
I wanted to run a few measurements to better understand what could be done at the software level to alleviate those issues. I am listing my findings below, following which I make a few recommendations to Samung, developers and users of the SGSII.
Findings
1. The maximum light outout with "Auto Adjust Screen Power" is limited
Note that the "Auto Adjust Screen Power" option is different to the automatic "auto-brightness" option. All measurements were made with auto-brightness deactivated and maximum brightness.
After measurements the results are as follows:
- Film Mode: 147cd/m²
- Standard Mode:149cd/m²
- Dynamic Mode: 147cd/m²
The lower value in film mode is due to the limitation of green and blue in film mode, which typically produce more luminance.
The lower value in dynamic mode is due to the picture becoming bright too fast above 50% brightness, there is actually white crush happening, as the Power Saving mode is trying to cap power consumption. This is similar to what is observed on a plasma, where Power Consumption is throttled
2. Disengaring the "Auto Adjust Screen Power" option (this is different to the Auto-Brightness option) significantly increases the brightness output
Not many people suspect the impact that "Auto Adjust Screen Power" option has. Engaging that option provides for much higher bighthness (at the expense of battery life):
- Film Mode: 276 cd/m²
- Standard Mode:285 cd/m²
- Dynamic Mode: 283 cd/m²
This is of course is at the expense of battery life but is still useful when trying to read in the sun. Unfortunately, as we will see later, this has a negative impact on shadow details and is not recommended for film viewing.
3. Light output diminishes though intensive use
The measurements after 3 weeks of use consistently show a deterioration of the maximum brightness over time.
Power Saving Engaged:
- Film Mode: 145 cd/m² (-1.4%)
- Standard Mode:147 cd/m² (-1.4%)
- Dynamic Mode: 145 cd/m² (-1.4%)
Power Saving Disabled:
- Film Mode: 270 cd/m² (-2.2%)
- Standard Mode:278 cd/m² (-2.5%)
- Dynamic Mode: 276 cd/m² (-2.5%)
I will continue to monitor this and post updated results in a few weeks.
4. The white balance exhibits a green push, which progressively becomes more bluish over time
I remember finding the whites greenish when I first got the phone. After 3 weeks, I wasn't bothered that much, they looked more neutral to me. I decided to test again after 3 weeks of use. The results confirmed by observations:
- Color temperature shifted after 3 weeks of use, with the proportion of blue increasing at the expense of green
- The color space after 3 weeks displays less saturated green
White balance at unboxing (green push)
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"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
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}
White balance 3 weeks later (blue push)
3. Standard and Dynamic mode have the same color space. Film mode exhibits less green oversaturation
Dynamic/Standard Color Space:
Film Color Space:
4. Film Mode with engaged Power Saving has the best gamma
The dynamic mode has got a skewed gama with a white crush
Film Mode offers better gamma
Disengaging power saving creates black crush
When power saving mode is disabled, the loss of shadow details in dark video sequences becomes even more prominent:
As an example, I am including the gamma curve for the least faulty Film Mode with Power Saving disengaged. The much increased light output we saw earlier is at the expense of shadow details:
Recommendations to Samsung
The display clearly has a lot of potential:
-True blacks
- Large color space
- Very good maximum light output
- Standard Mode gamma is pretty linear
[/LIST]
Unfortunately, these qualities are poorly exploited:
- Gamma is overall too high at lower stimulas. Black crush is happening in any mode, thought at various degree
- White balance is biased toward green and blue, which leads to very high color temperatue. Whites are greenish on first year, evolving toward bluish with increased use.
- The color space could be toned down further. Even in film mode, the greens are too saturated
What Samsung could easily do:
- Further reduce light output in film mode by removing blue and green - this would allow for a color temperature of 65K
- Correct the gamma issues: a simple gamma control under the screen settings allowing to shift gamma incrementally across the whole bightness spectrum would allow very decent results indeed
- Although this has less of a priority in my book, allow a color space with further reduced green saturation.
Recommendations to Android Developers
Develop an app allowing to control:
- Bightness
- Contrast
- Gamma
- If possible for each individual color channel
Such an app would be beneficial to all smartphones on the market!
Recommendations to users
- Use the film mode when watching videos in order to avoid black crush, oversaturation and high color temperature. It is still far from the film standard, but will yield the best viewing experience
- Do not disable power saving mode or you will experience significant black crush. Only do so when viewing in bright environments where contrast is more important than accurate gamma.
Closing thoughts
It is obvious when looking at the numbers, that Samsung have struggled to throttle power consumption on the Galaxy devices while still maintaining brightness comparable to the iPhone 4:
When users reclaim more brightness by deactivating power saving, they indeed get nice peak brightness, but this is at the expense of the darker areas, which lose shadow details in order to limit power consumption.
Many users would be happy with an inbetween solution, with brighness around 180cd/m² but more accurate gamma
thanks for the post, but what secrets were revealed? Quite possible I am too tired (2 in the morning my time), but I only see thorough measurements here
How do you explain color space change and brightness decrease in the weeks you had the phone? Is this how quick the OLED light output degrades?
kreoXDA said:
thanks for the post, but what secrets were revealed? Quite possible I am too tired (2 in the morning my time), but I only see thorough measurements here
How do you explain color space change and brightness decrease in the weeks you had the phone? Is this how quick the OLED light output degrades?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You ask what secrets were revealed, but then you ask about one of the interesting findings. OLED displays in general are known to degrade over time, as OLED are especially vulnerable to heat.
The degradation you observe is typically more important in the first few weeks of operation, so there is no need to panic. I will continue to monitor this over time and post updated findings.
Why is green most affected? Green is responsible for most of the light output in any display, because it has a high luminance. This is why Samsung's AMOLED exhibits a green push in the white balance, which no other type screen exhibits. Green oversaturation is very hard to compensate with red, and it would likely reduce battery life. You could see green as an economical way of producing more light output at the lowest power consumtion possible.
Balanced greyscale is only achievable if one is prepared to live with a lower maximum brightness on AMOLED's...or insane battery consumption.
I guess, this is the undisclosed truth that Samsung of course will not publicly admit to, but this is what the measurements reveal when you are used to calibrating displays. Basically, Samsung have had to make compromises in terms of white balance and black crush in order to squeeze some extra brightness out of the battery!
I really have no clue what you just wrote in your OP but you seem to know a lot about displays and color. What I do know about the SGS2 is that is shows color banding in gradients maybe you could explain why that happens, is it a characteristic of the display or a software problem?
eg see these threads:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102766
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1075364
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1121840
godutch said:
I really have no clue what you just wrote in your OP but you seem to know a lot about displays and color. What I do know about the SGS2 is that is shows color banding in gradients maybe you could explain why that happens, is it a characteristic of the display or a software problem?
eg see these threads:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102766
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1075364
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1121840
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This probably needs to be solved at the driver level, just like the color gamma and white balance issues. This is related and is something that Chainfire could have a look at. That's his domain of expertise after all...
I only calibrate displays. I am totally unskilled as a developer.
Cool so the display is capable of 24 bits color at least?
maybe u can forward this to supercurio. He has some interest as well as experience developing voodoo color for the last gen samsung phones.
MiG123 said:
maybe u can forward this to supercurio. He has some interest as well as experience developing voodoo color for the last gen samsung phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea. I posted to Chainfire already, but Supercurio may actually be an even more natural choice.
This has me worried "Greenish white, which becomes bluish after a few weeks of operation"
Is there a bedding in period for oled when they are new, like a plasma tv , that they say to keep the brightness low and avoid frozen images and logos for the first 100hrs until the phosphor settles down.
Hopefully the degradation of the colours will slow down.
EDIT : Also any owners of previous generation oled mobiles, how much degradation of the colours and brightness do they show after a few months/years.
EDIT 2 : It looks like the "Samsung W2400 Special Edition" from 2007 is one of the first oled cell phones , I wonder how it`s display is holding up.
puremind said:
Great idea. I posted to Chainfire already, but Supercurio may actually be an even more natural choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is indeed a Supercurio thing
What worries me the most is the left side yellow tint ... and samsung says noting.
I went for S2 because of the SAMOLED+ screen and now I get yellow tint for 600€
Thanks for taking the time to do the testing. I'm used to a calibrated environment (I'm a photographer) and I have to say that I really don't like looking at non-calibrated displays of any kind (usually over saturated, too bright and very obvious colour shifts). If anyone can come up with a way of making proper adjustments to the S2, I would be soooo happy
Nice info. Another dirty secret I'm on the fence about is how power hungry white screens actually ate on amoled screens. Look at the test results I did and how power usage spikes to -900 mA just loading a white web page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=998544
RogerPodacter said:
Nice info. Another dirty secret I'm on the fence about is how power hungry white screens actually ate on amoled screens. Look at the test results I did and how power usage spikes to -900 mA just loading a white web page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=998544
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not surprised. This confirms my theory that Samsung indeed hat to fiddle a lot to contain power consumption within acceptable levels, hence the lack of reds across the greyscale, the black crush we observe without screen power auto adjust and the limited brightness output with it engaged...!
Still, I wouldn't mind having a power hungry but accurate color profile that I can engage only as needed! The screen definitely has the potential. The only question is: at what brightness level is a balanced greyscale achievable. I am betting at around 110cd/m². Considering the true blacks this is very acceptable in dark environments (similar to the best plasma screens), but will not be satisfying under day light conditions, which is most of the time...
Still, I wouldn't mind attempting such a calibration providing the right tool is developed.
Tinderbox (UK) said:
This has me worried "Greenish white, which becomes bluish after a few weeks of operation"
Is there a bedding in period for oled when they are new, like a plasma tv , that they say to keep the brightness low and avoid frozen images and logos for the first 100hrs until the phosphor settles down.
Hopefully the degradation of the colours will slow down.
EDIT : Also any owners of previous generation oled mobiles, how much degradation of the colours and brightness do they show after a few months/years.
EDIT 2 : It looks like the "Samsung W2400 Special Edition" from 2007 is one of the first oled cell phones , I wonder how it`s display is holding up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the degradation is visible after a month-two, we just do not want to believe our eyes.
I think when I first unboxed my phone, it looked so much brighter!
And this is how Samsung is selling us these HyperSuperAMOLED+++ "upgrades" - whenever we look at a new version it is by design looking better than our old previous generation AMOLED
Which firmware did you have in the first test and any firmware changes prior to the last test?
jvidia said:
I went for S2 because of the SAMOLED+ screen and now I get yellow tint for 600€
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% same here. Nah, seriously I should've gone for the S-LCD displays. S-AMOLED + is still an unfinished product, under development, unless it comes to the stage of a finished and ready for market product we should avoid it. Thanks to OP for doing some good measurements.
Regards.
kreoXDA said:
I believe the degradation is visible after a month-two, we just do not want to believe our eyes.
I think when I first unboxed my phone, it looked so much brighter!
And this is how Samsung is selling us these HyperSuperAMOLED+++ "upgrades" - whenever we look at a new version it is by design looking better than our old previous generation AMOLED
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's hard for me to judge if i had any screen degradations on my captivate since i had it flashed to a new rom quite often and i never had the screen on high brightness (never felt the need to do so)
kreoXDA said:
I believe the degradation is visible after a month-two, we just do not want to believe our eyes.
I think when I first unboxed my phone, it looked so much brighter!
And this is how Samsung is selling us these HyperSuperAMOLED+++ "upgrades" - whenever we look at a new version it is by design looking better than our old previous generation AMOLED
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that not all of the degradation is negative. The alleviates the oversaturated greens, and a bluish greyscale is arguably better than a greenish one.
Also, the brightness is still more than enough and bighter than many laptops even after a few weeks of operation.
I will keep monitoring to see how things develop.
ithehappy said:
100% same here. Nah, seriously I should've gone for the S-LCD displays. S-AMOLED + is still an unfinished product, under development, unless it comes to the stage of a finished and ready for market product we should avoid it. Thanks to OP for doing some good measurements.
Regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that the limitation seems to be the battery rather than the display itself. Also the software is responsible for the presets and lack of controls. When Supercurio comes up with Voodoo for the SGSII, we should be able to rectify most of the issues.
The screen is still excellent for films watched in a dark environment if you keep screen power auto adjust activated.
Bightness can be as bright as on a retina display, yes, but at a high power consumption cost.
Today,I was playing around with my Note, still worried about the black clipping and blocky videos changing ROM after ROM and didnt find any solution.
Out of curiosiry, I copied the GammaTest image to my PC, went to my display adapter settings, and cranked up the gamma from 1.0(default) to 1.5-1.9 and guess what?
http://imageupload.org/en/file/235342/gamma-normal.jpg.html
The first image shows the gammatest as it should. Here the computer's default gamma is set to 1
I increased my gamma value to 1.5-1.9 and this is the result.
http://www.imageupload.org/en/file/235344/gammahigh.jpg.html
And when setting the gamma to highier values, play all your test videos and images, there will be clipping and blocky pixellation just like you see on the Note. Try this for yourself on your PC.
This clearly shows that the clipping on the note is a software issue rather than a hardware defect and if we could somehow get to tune the gamma on the note, its the END of all the clipping and the horrible video playback.
A point to note is, when increasing gamma values, the images tend to become artificially bright and on reducing them, they tend to get darker. Maybe this explains why the Note produces the best whites as far as AMOLED displays are concerned and seems to be brighter than all the other Galaxy devices which includes, the Galaxy S, S2 and S3.
So the only and truly effective solution is to find a way to tune gamma values under the MDNIE settings and this should be implemented in a kernel. I've seen none so far which is capable of doing this. All CM9 based ROMS have Gamma control disabled under MDNIE settings. This also explains why the same problems were corrected on the Google Nexus with the LEAN Kernel.
This is definitely a GAMMA issue and definitely Software related.
I may be wrong, please do feel free to correct me if so.
Although I do agree (in my non-expert and in this regard completely worthless opinion) it is probably a software issue, this does not confirm whether our Notes' black crush is caused by software or hardware, or if it is fixable. This only means that you can make your display crappy by cranking up the gamma too high. The same result can be achieved in different ways.
I still dont understand the gamma test picture.. Which numbers should be seen? I see 4 to 21 perfectly and can barely see 3.. Should 2 and 3 be seen too?
Sry if I went off topic..
First of all, the image should be quite dark to see in a lit environment and on an ideally calibrated display, the image show a gradual fade to black. So theoritically speaking, on a good display, the left side is barely visible and is seen as a dark gray fading to black.
On the stock ICS kernels, the image is seen upto 4 and then clips to black. If you enable, Force GPU acceleration, you can see upto 1 which means more clipping. On stock GB, you can see all the way to 1. It varies from kernel to kernel.
We just need some way to access the gamma control under MDNIE settings on the Note which is at present, disabled on the CM9 kernel and is not present on any other kernels either.
When you wrote "CONFIRMED" i thought there was some quote from Samsung saying it was a software issue and they were looking into it
I had mailed GSMArena regarding this issue and even after they published it and many other blogs too, Samsung didnt give a damn about it. So I dont think they do now either. The EMMC Bug is more of a fatal issue and to date, even after announcing that they are "working" on a fix, there are none. People are literally bricking from the latest stock when all the other custom kernels have disabled the MMC_CAP_ERASE value from their kernels. So its better not to rely on Samsung for anything. They just sell their phones and thats it. The Note and everything alike are experimental phones and we are their lab rats. They basically only focus on the flagship Galaxy Phone. read GS3 and new ways to sell it.
satishp said:
We just need some way to access the gamma control under MDNIE settings on the Note which is at present, disabled on the CM9 kernel and is not present on any other kernels either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah because we have a unique display that is different from the I9100/I777 - so display tweaks for those won't work on N7000.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
problem
1) Seriously guys, we have to get to the root of this problem. If we can get to the gamma setting on this display we can solve the problem. But how hard can it be to get there?
2) On the other hand, i think that what you did, was change the gamma on an LCD display. As far as I know there are a lot of diferences between LCD and OLED, appart from the fact that we have a pentile display (2 subpixels per pixel, pixels are in RGBG formation) and the LCD uses 3 subpixels per pixel (RGB).
We should join our forces and start on a mission to solve this issue once and for all.
Regards.
It is DEFINITELY a software issue. Try this out: reboot your phone, and while it is still booting and slowish, quickly start the calculator and see the top of the screen perfect and then, for no apparent reason, it gets some kind of a half-circle color spill. Also, when you open the gallery, find a folder with a stock video clip with jelly fish, and when you open that folder, gallery turns to black, and for a half of second it is perfect and then gets sort of color rendering problem. Final test is to start the camera when the night falls, switch to camcorder (for the smoothness), and just look at the screen, it is perfect, no black clipping, and then, as soon as you take the picture, the picture spoils and you get the black clipping- the live image on the screen while observing is totally normal. So, it is 100% SW issue!
I compared my Note to my friend's SIII and the screen is much darker on S3, and images themselves. So, it IS gamma issue. When you open the front camera on the SIII, in a bit darker environment, and look at yourself, you barely see the shape of your head, since gamma is much lower and it only picks up the bright parts, such as your forehead and cheeks. Also, images appear much MUCH darker on the s3 screen than what you see in reality. That is what samsung did to solve the issue: lowered the gamma.
Hope I gave some useful info (no pressure to hit the thanks button )
Cheers
P.S. please, those of you with good screens, post images here of your good note
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1801333
shatroghistro said:
It is DEFINITELY a software issue. Try this out: reboot your phone, and while it is still booting and slowish, quickly start the calculator and see the top of the screen perfect and then, for no apparent reason, it gets some kind of a half-circle color spill. Also, when you open the gallery, find a folder with a stock video clip with jelly fish, and when you open that folder, gallery turns to black, and for a half of second it is perfect and then gets sort of color rendering problem. Final test is to start the camera when the night falls, switch to camcorder (for the smoothness), and just look at the screen, it is perfect, no black clipping, and then, as soon as you take the picture, the picture spoils and you get the black clipping- the live image on the screen while observing is totally normal. So, it is 100% SW issue!
I compared my Note to my friend's SIII and the screen is much darker on S3, and images themselves. So, it IS gamma issue. When you open the front camera on the SIII, in a bit darker environment, and look at yourself, you barely see the shape of your head, since gamma is much lower and it only picks up the bright parts, such as your forehead and cheeks. Also, images appear much MUCH darker on the s3 screen than what you see in reality. That is what samsung did to solve the issue: lowered the gamma.
Hope I gave some useful info (no pressure to hit the thanks button )
Cheers
P.S. please, those of you with good screens, post images here of your good note
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1801333
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok, it is software. good. let's solve it !
It is not that easy..supercurio worked on it for 6 months and then left us hanging... He is not obliged, though..
We need a kernel which can access the gamma control. That is the only 'real' solution for this issue. You are right about the s3 having lower gamma and hence darker images. I've seen this myself and thats why I mentioned on my post that the Note's screen looks brighter due to the heavily cranked up gamma.
Apparently, this might be an issue with pentile amoled. Lower the gamma and lose pure whites for a clipping free darker image like on the Galaxy S or S3 or crank it up and get "richer" looking colours and whiter whites at the cost of extreme clipping in darker shadows.
This is the root of the cause. Improper gamma. Now only if someone who is experienced in developing Kernels would somehow enable gamma control which is present in the MDNIE settings but strangely disabled due to unknown reasons.
I saw that Liquid Black ROM has Gamma Control but didnt try that ROM yet. I really love the Tablet Mode in the Paranoid ROMS. So I want to stick to it while getting a solution.
I tend to agree with satish, it is then a hardware issue that could be remedied partly at cost other colours. I guess I was wrong, I use to think it was only caused by lower quality images, like watching tv on old crt, then watching same on hdtv, that also looks crap lol.
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gbb14 said:
1) Seriously guys, we have to get to the root of this problem. If we can get to the gamma setting on this display we can solve the problem. But how hard can it be to get there?
2) On the other hand, i think that what you did, was change the gamma on an LCD display. As far as I know there are a lot of diferences between LCD and OLED, appart from the fact that we have a pentile display (2 subpixels per pixel, pixels are in RGBG formation) and the LCD uses 3 subpixels per pixel (RGB).
We should join our forces and start on a mission to solve this issue once and for all.
Regards.
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I wasn't comparing LCD and OLED. I just wanted to prove the point that it is indeed gamma which is set higher on the Note and it is not a hardware issue. I dont know why no kernel for the Note is able to access the gamma control settings. Maybe like Entropy said, the Note's display panel might be a unique design such that any tweak applied on the display may cause unwanted results. As you all know OLEDs have certain hidden characteristics and its more or less like DNA. Every OLED panel is different. So the manufacturer tunes it into the most optimum settings possible on the particular technology used in the panel. But here, Samsung just did it wrong.
If you have noticed, many custom ROMS offer scaling down the brightness even below the default Samsung values and thats when AMOLED's hidden weaknesses start showing up.
In the end, I feel the only solution to this is a Kernel which enables the Gamma Control or somehow enabling the Gamma Control in CM9 which is currently disabled in most CM9 based ROMS.
baz77 said:
I tend to agree with satish, it is then a hardware issue that could be remedied partly at cost other colours. I guess I was wrong, I use to think it was only caused by lower quality images, like watching tv on old crt, then watching same on hdtv, that also looks crap lol.
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Not exactly a hardware "issue" but maybe more like a hardware "limitation" of "Pentile" AMOLED. Samsung has hidden this issue in the Original Galaxy S and in the Galaxy S3 by lowering the gamma which results in darker images but "NO" or "Invisible" clipping hence satisfying consumers. Due to the lower Gamma on those phones, darker shadows seem to blend into eachother hence we dont see any clipping as darks are "Dark". And hence, when consumers dont "see" any artefacts, banding or clipping on their videos and images, they are satisfied. But this is at the cost of "dull" whites or artificial whites and lower overall perceived brightness.
As the Note has its Gamma cranked up, White looks white. I may even go forward and say that the Note produces the best whites ever seen on any AMOLED panel. Hence web browsing looks richer, colours look richer and the overall perceived brightness is again higher than other devices, But this again comes at the cost of clipping in darker shadows and hence poor looking videos and images, blocky pixellation,etc
So in the end, everyone is ready to sacrifice their "whites" for a clipping free display. Thats how it works out for consumers. As long as they dont "see" the problem, they believe its not there. So this may be a limitation of "Pentile" AMOLED and lowering the gamma may be Samsung's way of hiding the weakness.
The Galaxy S2 has an overall best screen which I've seen and thats due to the RGB AMOLED Technology. Colours look richer, the percieved brightness is higher and no clipping either. Thereby best of both worlds.
gamma
1) I saw some minor fixes on this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715416 but nothing really gets deep down to the problem. Those fixes are actually some kind of effects, they aren't so good. They talk there about some kernels that helps the black clipping issue.
2)I have found an apk that is called voodoo display filter, can you check it out? it does seem to enhance the black.
3)As i was playing around with the screen settings on cm9, i noticed that if i set the screen scenario to VT, the mode to MOVIE, and the outdoor mode to ON, i can see down to number 4 on the gamma test image (usually with the default settings i can see everything down to 1).
regards
gbb14 said:
1) I saw some minor fixes on this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715416 but nothing really gets deep down to the problem. Those fixes are actually some kind of effects, they aren't so good. They talk there about some kernels that helps the black clipping issue.
2)I have found an apk that is called voodoo display filter, can you check it out? it does seem to enhance the black.
3)As i was playing around with the screen settings on cm9, i noticed that if i set the screen scenario to VT, the mode to MOVIE, and the outdoor mode to ON, i can see down to number 4 on the gamma test image (usually with the default settings i can see everything down to 1).
regards
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You are talking about the screen adjuster app which in my opinion is neither a fix nor a workaround for the problem. It destroys the blacks and uses the screen out of specification.
I have searched everywhere but couldnt find the apk for vodoo screen tuning. So, couldnt try that.
Anyways, this issue cannot be resolved with an app but only a kernel which supports gamma control.
You can find the app on bazaar android, i think it was made by super mario super curio, or something who used to work on this issue, and had a thread of over 50 pages, until he decided to quit the work because of flamers and stupid people.
I've had some ideas:
Can the devs add some new settings under cm9>settings>advanced>screen>mode ? ooooor instead of bumping the gamma on outdoor mode, to lower it?
regards
Op please change thread title, as it is hardware.
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Bought the 10...love the way it runs but I bought it to show my photography work on (would use an ipad but I really detest the ios software).
The entire screen seems to be washed out overall with weak black levels and reds in particular are low saturation.
Sharp as a tack for sure....is it just mine? I see such conflicting reports in reviews although I am seeing more now about low saturation and contrast.
Very frustrating....unless someone out there knows some way of calibrating this display which I haven't found?
you are right
i am also a photographer (Canon 5D MkII)
i have watched some photos now(got my N10 yesterday) and as you said the screen is sharp as hell
i have never seen this amount of details with my DSLR photos.
im also doing hardware calibration and i see whats wrong right away and i have also tested it...the problem is that the gamma is to low.
The N10 has a Gamma Level around 1.4 - 1.5 where it should be 2.2!
(yeah that should make some attention hehe)
thats a fact and thats why we have washed out colors and bad contrast
but the good thing is that even at that low gamma we have a decent picture quality with good black levels!
i dont think the black levels on my device is washed out
it shouldnt be this good with this crappy gamma but it is
thats amazing and that tells that this is a quality screen above normal.
with correct gamma at 2.2 this screen will rock for sure.
so lets wait for some kernel guru to make some gamma adjustments
i have said i before that im willing to pay that person that makes gamma adjustment possible for the N10s.
You are correct...gamma is definitely too low.
As far as washed out reds go, I suppose I could process specifically for display on this tablet but that's a pain in the butt.
I wish the darned ipad wasn't such a restrictive ecosystem for the software. The colors rock on the ipad unfortunately but it's just too darned restrictive.
jfenton57 said:
You are correct...gamma is definitely too low.
As far as washed out reds go, I suppose I could process specifically for display on this tablet but that's a pain in the butt.
I wish the darned ipad wasn't such a restrictive ecosystem for the software. The colors rock on the ipad unfortunately but it's just too darned restrictive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im waiting for a i1 Display Pro colormeter
when i get it i will do a hardware calibration.
but i have checked some stuff already and i think that the colors is right for its low gamma.
also the brightness for the colors seems the same for Red/Green/Blue and thats a good thing
also the contrast and black level is reference.
i also think the color temp is close to 6500k
that means that the grayscale is correct.
so the only thing that messes up this display is the low gamma.
(or wrong gamma curve/line)
you have some tests here that you can do without a colormeter,if you want to check it out
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
also you can download the AVSHD 709 Patterns here.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration
just copy the mp4 files to your N10 and run them.
one note that i can see is that it seems that the gamma is higher at the lower shades
it seems to be around 1.8 there
that could explain why we dont have completely washed out blacks.
but what you want is a plain straight gamma line at 2.2
the N10 seems to have a hill shaped line starting high at lower shades and lower around maximum white.
I have tested the N10 with a Pantone "hocky puck" and can confirm the observations posted above. As compared to overly saturated profiles most normal users are used to, it's no wonder many see the N10 as flat and dull. My N7 is horrible, not only flat but had a color temp that was blueish green.
Much of my publicly displayed work for general web based consumption, has the saturation pumped up farther then I like, but my "fans" (sarc) seem to enjoy my photographs when contrast and saturation is pushed high. Ironically, my over saturated photographs look good to me on the low gamma N10, lol.
Either way, most all of us would benefit from being able to adjust our N10s. As many of you know this is best done at the kernel level and the master of sound and color Samsung kernels is SuperCurio and his project Voodoo. I have heard hearsay that he is working on kernel code and color profiles that can support adjustments for the N10, but I have yet to confirm this myself.
As usual we are given hardware that needs code improvements to be fully realized and that seems to always be done by the development community. It will taken time but I am confident we'll get there to some degree soon.
As far as I could tell there is no gamma correction in the kernel because the Nexus 10 uses a new display port interface thats in the Exynos 5. Most devices I've seen have at least a static gamma table in the kernel but that doesn't appear to be true for the Nexus 10.
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12paq said:
I have heard hearsay that he is working on kernel code and color profiles that can support adjustments for the N10, but I have yet to confirm this myself.
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give him my money!
that sounds great
post in this thread if you hear more about it!
as i said in other threads i will pay around 50$ for the person that makes gamma adjustment possible for the N10.
btw: hockey puck?
are you serious ?
Sony please make in the next Xperia Z smartphone profiles for screen by SRGB standard (like in S5 cinema mode (106% SRGB) and natural mode in LG G Flex)) or make screen by SRGB standard. Anyway all image are designed for SRGB standard (99.9% of the colors in nature), and enhanced range is color distortion, oversaturation and red hues.
Thank you
can't you tweak in white balance setting?
sonyfan12 said:
Sony please make in the next Xperia Z smartphone profiles for screen by SRGB standard (like in S5 cinema mode (106% SRGB) and natural mode in LG G Flex)) or make screen by SRGB standard. Anyway all image are designed for SRGB standard (99.9% of the colors in nature), and enhanced range is color distortion and oversaturation.
Also please correct red hues in some batches.
Thank you
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Click to collapse
just hold on, i will be introducing RGB color control at kernel level in my next kernel (DooMKernel) release
Gitaroo said:
can't you tweak in white balance setting?
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If it is about 130% srgb, it does not help, but if it about the red hues, then little help, this defect display
(In the photo at S5 wrong display mode, with 7800K)
DooMLoRD said:
just hold on, i will be introducing RGB color control at kernel level in my next kernel (DooMKernel) release
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Thanks a lot
Lol, remind me of the xbox 360 auto color tweaking, I think sony has finally caught up with color cheating to make many people think the hardware produce richer color. I think its a fair complain, I personally prefer accurate color also. Funny how they are so good with their TV but doing it, either deliberately or wasn't tweaked properly when shipped. Maybe send this request to official Sony support forum they will look into this. They do read the posts there so probably a good idea.
Who are close to the developers of sony, please show them this post
sonyfan12 said:
Thanks a lot
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So now after doomlord has introduced it what is your take ?
---------- Post added at 04:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 AM ----------
Gitaroo said:
Funny how they are so good with their TV but doing it, either deliberately or wasn't tweaked properly when shipped. Maybe send this request to official Sony support forum they will look into this. They do read the posts there so probably a good idea.
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because a TV screen costs a lot more than a phone screen.
Getting accurate colours costs more. Will you pay $100 more for accurate colours. Until the tech gets cheaper it ain't happening.