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Taken from the official Sprint thread here:
http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/43883?start=540&tstart=0&reqsorting=dec
"Good news - an update will be released tomorrow 9/30. It will be rolled out over a 4 day period so not everyone will get it on day 1.
I will have the standard MR information (fixes included, rollout schedule, etc) available tomorrow morning and will post it in a new featured thread."
AWESOME!
yea, the day after the 30 days is up for people that bought on the first day, so not really that awesome, lets just pray it fixes the problem. I'm not really optomistic to be honest. Just to convenient to hold off like this.
Second update since release. I do have to admit, it's kind of nice to see Samsung actually supporting a phone for once.
This is great news! And we are getting Cyanogen Mod 6! I couldn't be happier. :-D
robl45 said:
yea, the day after the 30 days is up for people that bought on the first day, so not really that awesome, lets just pray it fixes the problem. I'm not really optomistic to be honest. Just to convenient to hold off like this.
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While I understand where you're coming from, I agree with styckx that it's just good to see them doing something about it. I do wish they'd acted on this more quickly, but better to roll out a fix now than wait months to release one or not release one at all.
It's crazy to hear people complain about updates from Samsung from my perspective. I'm a Touch pro 1 owner that basically received no updates from Sprint/HTC. And previous to that was the Mogul that went months without an advertised feature (Rev A/GPS). I'm way more wary about HTC than Samsung.
Epic ordered finally here. Was waiting for 10/1.
fooo1 said:
It's crazy to hear people complain about updates from Samsung from my perspective. I'm a Touch pro 1 owner that basically received no updates from Sprint/HTC. And previous to that was the Mogul that went months without an advertised feature (Rev A/GPS). I'm way more wary about HTC than Samsung.
Epic ordered finally here. Was waiting for 10/1.
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It stems from Samsung's history, mainly with the T-Mobile Behold 2. They advertised that it would be getting Android 2.x then never delivered on their promise and stranded users with 1.6. While HTC has probably been the best manufacturer in terms of supporting their Android phones.
I had a launch day Hero, and I don't think support was the fastest for that either. Most everything I did through XDA and androidforums.<---alot faster than waiting for the manufacturer/carrier to roll out and update.
Just my thoughts...
Chris
cswee1932 said:
I had a launch day Hero, and I don't think support was the fastest for that either. Most everything I did through XDA and androidforums.<---alot faster than waiting for the manufacturer/carrier to roll out and update.
Just my thoughts...
Chris
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I've read a lot about Samsung after purchasing my Samsung Moment. I found they had a nice history of let downs and lack of support. Then the Moment went on and on without a mention of a fix, or patch, or anything. That was a complete lemon of a phone (data lock ups and unfixable GPS) that Samsung all but abandoned less than a year after launch and still to this day the Moment forums are mainly filled with people trying to fix data lock ups and the GPS. It's ashame really.
Epic was going to be my last run with Samsung, and despite some bumps in the road I've been pleased so far as they are at least taking initiative with this phone it seems. I personally think they have no choice. It's one thing to piss off 1 carriers customers, and another to piss off multiple carriers customers by not supporting a phone.
Hope the support continues.
so you guys are excited that they put out an update that fixed nothing and screwed up the phone? thats great, all it meant is I had to go and uninstall the mediahub crap so my battery life didn't suffer, the gps issue remains, the upload issue will likely remain after this update as well. so that really equates to them doing nothing in my eyes.
I've never experienced a upload cap on my phone. Does anyone know if this update includes other fixes other than just the 3g upload cap?
crajee16 said:
I've never experienced a upload cap on my phone. Does anyone know if this update includes other fixes other than just the 3g upload cap?
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Have you ran the Speed Test app on 3G? I've yet to see anyone get over a stable 150kbps (sure it bounces upwards towards 200 on occasion but then levels out). From working in hosting it shows exact throttling behavior, as it uploads it jumps past the 150 mark to around 170-180 and then down to a stable 150 almost immediately. It's hard to believe this to be some sort of coincidence since it's able to be replicated in many different 3G markets across the country.
punzada said:
Have you ran the Speed Test app on 3G? I've yet to see anyone get over a stable 150kbps (sure it bounces upwards towards 200 on occasion but then levels out). From working in hosting it shows exact throttling behavior, as it uploads it jumps past the 150 mark to around 170-180 and then down to a stable 150 almost immediately. It's hard to believe this to be some sort of coincidence since it's able to be replicated in many different 3G markets across the country.
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Lol, mine actually goes to like 6000+ for a little while, then dips down to under 50 kbps. Yes, under 50! I have some SpeedTest results that have come in under 20 kbps upload!
Even my 3G speed is horrible. Never over 500 download. I'm looking forward to this. Luckily I am usually either in a WiFi zone or a 4G zone.
punzada said:
From working in hosting it shows exact throttling behavior, as it uploads it jumps past the 150 mark to around 170-180 and then down to a stable 150 almost immediately.
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It may seem to be throttling behavior. Ultimately though, those of us aware of how a data radio and associated software *actually works* know full well that it's because the dwarf hamsters spinning in their wheels are, in fact, unionized. Because of the upload tragedy of 2009, in which millions of poor hamsters perished on the Touch Pro 2 because of faulty speed governors installed in the cages, strict regulations were put in place for the Epic, dictating that no hamster may run unsupervised in their wheels, and that they must trade off shifts every 128kB with their spotting partners. It's this switching that causes the fluctuations you observe during the speedtest runs. You may have noticed a bit more heft in the Epic vs say, the Captivate. You might mistakenly believe it's the keyboard, when in fact it is the added weight of the supervisory hamsters.
Another shortfall in communications speed arises because Samsung, to save weight from the added hamsters, decided to use smoke signals as a databus between the CPU and the baseband processor. This was chosen over the "flashing mirrors" approach due to cost and weight issues. This compounds the upload cap problem because as the phone rests in your pocket, it accumulates moisture. The soot particles from the smoke then seed rainclouds, which can interrupt the dataflow between baseband and CPU as the receiver operators duck for cover at a nearby tavern.
So, you see, this is clearly a compound problem. Obviously, this week's update will include a staff of more hamsters, more wheels, and dehumidifiers, all so your phone can shuttle data more efficiently. This is a brilliant feat of engineering, I might add. So, expect your phone to weigh more by the end of the week, though how much more, nobody knows. And please, do post the truth about how the phone's internals really work, punzada... anything else would be a blatant disservice to the hard-working bit-crunchers in your phone.
^^ wat
Also from that thread:
Desi,
I'm on the phone right now with tier 2 support to try to find out what's in the update because this is my last day if I'm going to return the phone and I'm being told that they don't see anything about the battery life, GPS, or this data upload issue in this release.
I know you said that you're putting that information up tomorrow, but I have to make a decision today.
The tech is saying there is NO FIX FOR THE CAP ISSUE FROM SAMSUNG yet or anything to improve the battery.
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Desi's (admin) reply:
Joe,
The 3G upload issue is definitely in the release.
I doubt the GPS issue is since I just forwarded input from this forum over to engineering for further analysis.
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I guess we will have to see if it actually fixes anything. But it seems like tier 2 is at least finally aware of (or admitting to) the problem with the upload. Doesn't sound like there will be anything for the battery or GPS though.
GlassGorilla said:
I guess we will have to see if it actually fixes anything. But it seems like tier 2 is at least finally aware of (or admitting to) the problem with the upload. Doesn't sound like there will be anything for the battery or GPS though.
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Battery and GPS are (for me, anyway) easy workarounds. 3G upload cap is what it is; there's no getting around it other than using wi-fi or 4G (which I can also usually do, but not everyone can).
I'll be happy to have that upload cap fixed if for no other reason than people will quit using it as an excuse to post "should I return my Epic for an Evo?" threads here and elsewhere.
My feeling is the amount of pressure on Sprint had an affect on how hard they pushed samsung.
That and the fact that until a few days ago users were being told for weeks running that no one but they were reporting the problem exacerbated the problem.
So it s a cause for celebration that they are pushing out a fix, but I don't think it is at all established that this would have occurred so soon if it where not for all the noise.
As far as GPS, not only are there problems, but the "advice" given by Sprint: use the unrelated "wireless networking" is an absolute laughable and patronizing dodge.
As others have noted, working around with cold starts or manual resets does fix the main issue.
I have been in contact with the moderator of eh Sprint forum privately some time ago, and he put me in with ADP (ADP, not ADS) on this issue. They are diagnosing it, and have not come to any conclusion other than they have seen the issue themselves.
aero1 said:
My feeling is the amount of pressure on Sprint had an affect on how hard they pushed samsung.
So it s a cause for celebration that they are pushing out a fix, but I don't think it is at all established that this would have occurred so soon if it where not for all the noise.
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Well. Apparently we have a voice, which is a good thing.
I'm hopeful, but I am not holding my breath. I think it is likely the vast majority of Epics were pre-ordered or bought on launch, 08/31. 30 days would be 09/30. The announcement could be an attempt to get people who bought on launch that were going to return it on the last day to keep their phones, and then when the update doesn't "may increase" or "possibly enhance" or whatever the legal gymnastics statement said, those people can't return the phone any more and Sprint isn't really under any obligation to fix it.
Whether it's an angleshoot or a genuine attempt to fix it, I am anxiously awaiting the first reports tomorrow.
GlassGorilla said:
I think it is likely the vast majority of Epics were pre-ordered or bought on launch, 08/31. 30 days would be 09/30. The announcement could be an attempt to get people who bought on launch that were going to return it on the last day to keep their phones, and then when the update doesn't "may increase" or "possibly enhance" or whatever the legal gymnastics statement said, those people can't return the phone any more and Sprint isn't really under any obligation to fix it. .
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Sprint is serious exposed to class action liberality, which involves not just awards, but legal costs, and more importantly really bad press.
I have a written note from ecare from last week saying no one has reported this issue. Hundreds of users seem to have been told the same thing. Not that the speeds are normal, but that they were low speeds but unique to the customer. That presents a legal liability for Sprint right here.
I think we will all know in a few days.
You guys should probably take a chill pill on the conspiracy theories already. I'm sure it would cost Sprint much less money and hassle just to fix this software issue rather than go out of their way to "conveniently" tell you that there's a "fix" that doesn't really exist but they used their "legal gymnastics" to trick you into holding onto your phone past the 30 day mark. They are a company that wishes to exist more than 2 more years, why would they go out of their way to screw you and guarantee you leave in two years when a couple of patches could save them and Samsung a ton of customers?
Its not like fixing this issue requires the recall and replacement of every phone, and them fixing this problem is not an incredibly inconvenient issue. You know why they're telling you the day before your 30 days that the update is coming? Because telling you after you return the phone wouldn't do anyone much good. Why didn't they tell you sooner? Because these things, while not impossible or some ludicrous endeavor, do take time.
I'm not even meaning to take their side really. Sure, they should have caught the issue before launch, and they should have addressed the issue in public... but if you're only gonna sign onto networks willing to do either of those things then you're not going to be purchasing a cell phone in America. I mean, Steve Job's stance on Antennagate is still "Shut up whiny babies, this issue doesn't exist, but I'll give you a free case if you shush and go back to fellating me..."
Not sure if it's just me, but I"ve noticed that when I use either Wifi Tether or some other similar app, or even usb tether, certain apps on my Droid X say they can't connect to the internet. A couple of these apps are TV Shows, Geo Coupons, and the weather feature in my Beautiful Widgets app. Most everything else seems to work fine, even Android Video and Weather Channel, but I don't want to have to reboot my phone every time I use Wifi Tether. Anyone have any ideas?
You are a brave man doing wifi tether on an unofficial leaked GB build after Moto and Verizon both came out saying they will be looking into users that do this illegally.
As for the problem, try doing a factory reset and see if that works? Remember this isn't official yet, bound to be bugs.
Please post... Well anything really.. That shows an official statement from either VzW or Motorola that actually backs up your statement on this.
Not trying to be a jerk but it is kinda beating a dead horse without any real proof... Reminds me of new year 2000 when everyone thought the world was going to end or all the computers were going to explode because of the dating system used.
Anyway, OP- That's a common problem with tethering on the GB leak. The only thing that still connects is the browser and even that's not 100%. Just toggle AP mode and it should be fine.
blubyu87gt said:
Please post... Well anything really.. That shows an official statement from either VzW or Motorola that actually backs up your statement on this.
Not trying to be a jerk but it is kinda beating a dead horse without any real proof... Reminds me of new year 2000 when everyone thought the world was going to end or all the computers were going to explode because of the dating system used.
Anyway, OP- That's a common problem with tethering on the GB leak. The only thing that still connects is the browser and even that's not 100%. Just toggle AP mode and it should be fine.
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There is a good, two page written thread from p3droid on the mydroidworld forums on this issue. Again, never said its going on, but i trust p3droid.
This is going to be a bit long winded so I appologize in advance...
Yes, of course I have seen the chicken little write up that everyone is acting like its the end of the world for root and everything android. Hence why I said offical. I know that Test guy got the boot but that hardly means p3 is taking his place.
Even he said take it with a grain of salt. Yes, he is a good dev and has had a couple good leaks but that hardly makes what he said infallible.
I am sure that this has been gone over by all the manufactures and carriers but WORSE case is they contact you (like att did with iPhone users) saying stop using or start paying. Then you either A) stop. OR B) Tell them to not put any random charges on your account and keep going.
Does everyone think that Verizon will actually start booting customers (at 50+ bucks a month arpu) or opening some crazy litagations against those who root-tether over a 20 dollar charge. The loss (heavily) out weighs gain so therefore its not viable for the company to do really any action above against its customers.
As far as the blocking said services on the software side. This is kinda normal... Why are people so shocked about what he said about blocking root... They (OEMs) have been doing this since the Eris so why is everyone so shocked now? And notice how through the software they made it so only free wifi tether was more difficult to obtain. All other aspects were left pretty far intact and it was rooted within a week. To me that says Verizon is not concerned with blocking, tracking, booting, or mafia style offing root users. That looks more like they want to make root possible while getting as much money as they can for services they offer.... Shocker....
bravo1234 said:
There is a good, two page written thread from p3droid on the mydroidworld forums on this issue. Again, never said its going on, but i trust p3droid.
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Not going through this again. He has yet to provide on shred of any kind of evidence I can claim that I am a lawyer and I'm suing you but that doesn't make it true. If there was any evidence at all I would put some faith into it. He lied.... end.
cstrife999 said:
Not going through this again. He has yet to provide on shred of any kind of evidence I can claim that I am a lawyer and I'm suing you but that doesn't make it true. If there was any evidence at all I would put some faith into it. He lied.... end.
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I completely understand where you are coming from and somewhat support your opinion myself. The only problem I have about not believing it is why would he lie? What does he have to gain from lying about it? He already has posted several important leaks and rooted and deodexed both gingerbread leaks. He is a well known and respected person in this community. What could he possibly gain from posting that? And why would he say not to tether if he was the one who made the patch?
Jmoney47 said:
I completely understand where you are coming from and somewhat support your opinion myself. The only problem I have about not believing it is why would he lie? What does he have to gain from lying about it? He already has posted several important leaks and rooted and deodexed both gingerbread leaks. He is a well known and respected person in this community. What could he possibly gain from posting that? And why would he say not to tether if he was the one who made the patch?
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I've seen others state this, not my original thought. But it does make sense:
This is mostly about tethering. 'Theft of service'. p3Droid sells an app on the marketplace that enables you to bypass VZW's pay-app (3g Hotspot Patch). While simply rooting and using a variety of tethering apps is possible, this one avenue is a more direct attack on vzw's revenue stream.
If VZW is going take any action, legally, its likely going to go at him first. He's "profiting" from the action.
Most likely he's realized (maybe officially from VZW?) that he's a legal target and is trying to mitigate the damage?
So I don't know about you guys, but I am tired of waiting for ICS. Even more so I am tired of there being not a word spoken about the progress of the update from Google, Sprint, or Samsung. Being that I am still paying the phones subsidized price to Sprint with my monthly payments, I have taken my complaints to their official forum.
http://community.sprint.com/baw/community/buzzaboutwireless/phones-and-devices/samsung/nexus_s_
I encourage all of you that are tired of the silence of these companies to please join me on Sprints forums and voice your complaints. Maybe if enough of us speak up someone will realize it is better to have transparency even when things go wrong.
*I know some of you will say quit complaining and flash a rom. I know what my options are, but that does not excuse these companies for treating us the way that they are. Sprint should not be advertising the Nexus S 4G as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible"*
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
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Pestering Google would be the more direct approach for sure. But they already got their money for these phones. Sprint on the other hand I am still paying and will continue to pay (if I don't move to another carrier). So Sprint seems to be the more logical source to complain to and maybe if enough people pester them, they will in turn force Google to be more transparent. Because as is, it looks like Google could give a ****.
Ah alright, that makes more sense to me now. Thanks for the response
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
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No, I would never give up my mods & tweaks, etc....but I would love to have a stock rom with all those tweaks, mods, themes, kernels, etc. added on to it. IMHO, stock roms are almost always stable beasts! Honestly, at this point, I am doubting whether or not sprint even cares enough to let us know what's going on with the update. We're now over 2 months since the first official ota was pushed to nexus s and the devs here have already beaten the bloody hell out of sprint in releasing working roms, with brand new radios, bootloaders, and all. Granted, the bootloader & radio were ripped from a leaked rom, but still....we've got over a dozen working roms before the people who have full access to schematics, closed source code, etc. could even get one out.....and that's just plain sad!!
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
patokeefe said:
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
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Umm.. Its called a leak because it was err.. leaked... It was an OTA update that wasn't released yet and still hasn't been. Doesn't make it a false leak, just means they still aren't ready to release it.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
KID ANDROID said:
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
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Exactly.
I should clarify, the substance of the leak-the date if the alleged OTA update-was false.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Looks like Sprint is still sytematically deleting posts of their users and paying customers on their forum.
Go here and see before it is deleted: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/85388?start=0&tstart=0
"Nexus S 4g and ICS-where is it?
Why were these posts deleted? Why are you still trying to hide what is going on instead of answering my questions? There was nothing in these posts that was your content to delete. markie_b stated that posts that had Sprint property (screenshots) were deleted because of that, but why are these deleted?
POST 1
"@markie_b "the opportune word here is leaked which means someone is putting information out there before it is due and therefore Sprint has the right to delete any information"
Just because it was leaked does not make it any less true. There was a banner at the top of the page when Sprint employees logged into Dara and ISC. It was there for two days at least. Many different Sprint employees confirmed this as true. So deleting the screenshot and links to this image just makes it look like Sprint is trying to hide something. Which you are. Sprint messed up. Plain and simple. Maybe you guys should admit this and try to give us more information than just wait for ICS because we know nothing. We all know you and every other Sprint employee know nothing. You guys should work on changing that. Instead of hiding mistakes and staying silent on what is going on with an update, you should be proactive in letting us know every step of the process you are on in geting the update out. The source has been available for 3 months now, that is more than enough time to get the radios working. As I have said before we are all still paying Sprint for these phones. We deserve to be treated better. On a side note you should realize the Nexus is a developer phone. You are not dealing with your average Android phone users here. We will notice every single mistake you make and come looking for answers every time.
@aysdojo Why would you think it was an internal release? How many Sprint employees do you think still even own an NS4G? On top of that there is no system in place for Sprint to only push updates to Sprint employees. So how would they even accomplish an internal release?
@14knight So would you mind explaining why another post created by mattsholtz23 that asked why Sprint is advertising the Nexus S 4g as "OS updates as soon as humanly possible" were outright deleted and the member banned? There was no "leaked" information in that post. It was a simple question that was deleted instead of just being answered. It look like Sprints policy is to delete any post on here that makes them look bad. Instead of being up front and admitting when they do things wrong. A screen shot has been taken as proof of this post."
POST 2
"I must assume that you have trouble reading, as all proof needed was inside of last post. You must realize that you are asking for proof of things that do not exist, i.e. a way for Sprint to roll out releases only to employees all the while excluding every other NS4G owner on their network. This is like asking someone to prove that Santa Clause does not exist. The proof he does not exist is that no one has ever proven that he does exist. The same goes for Sprints secret employee OS upgrade system that you somehow beleive in. Like I said before, it would have been heard of by now through employee leaks, considering that the OP is about Sprint internal leaks this is something Sprint has a problem with. Also of note is that the one internal rollout you cited from Google had leaked screenshots of ICS (I guess you would have had to of read the article though) hitting Google+ and Twitter within hours of the actual rollout to employees. Further illustrating my point. I would also like to point out that I have answered your questions twice now with you still never answering my one question to you. Why do you believe this was an internal rollout? Any other post by you will be ignored as I must assume you are trolling and are hijacking the thread, considering your last 2 posts have not had a single fact in them and were all opinion, and that you never answered my one question to you. Now back to the real questions I would like to see answers to. I am still waiting Markie_B and 14Knight."
A screenshot has been taken as proof of this post, as have all my other posts."
And another one that was deleted:
"@dreamcat1138 You are correct. Not only does the NS4G have weak radio problems, but it is all Samsung devices that have signal issues. Samsung is notorious for using under powered radios inside of it's handsets. http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-s-users-hows-your-wifi-strength http://www.androidcentral.com/are-you-having-radio-issues-your-nexus-s-4g-poll http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=34ad876196cb21c4&hl=en http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=72cde4a29b9021c3&hl=en http://forums.androidcentral.com/sp...e-wifi-radio-wifi-tethering-crashes-data.html Tweet from Engadget's Mobile editor - https://twitter.com/#!/zpower/status/15800092652998657 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1714413 http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-epic-4g-touch-hits-radio-problems-fix-promised http://pocketnow.com/android/epic-4g-touch-signal-loss-fix-coming-soon-user-leaks-it-early http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24345 http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/21/...signal-problem-fix-coming-meter-being-changed Trust me I could go on. Basically all Samsung devices including the Nexus S 4G have horrible radios. Just look at some of the other posts in Sprints Nexus S forum. There are more than one post asking when the radios would be fixed on the NS4G, and they always have the same answer. It's in the next update. Yet with the last 3 update the NS4G recieved that were supposed to fix the radio issues, they never did. And now we are being told it will be in the ICS update. That is untrue as there is no fix for the radio ssues, it is a hardware issue, and the only fix for that is not buying a Samsung phone. Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
Here are even more that were deleted.
"Why was the screen shot and link to the image of the leak deleted? Why does Sprint feel that hiding their mess ups is gonna help? It is all over the web, we already know. Why don't you take the time to admit your mistakes and tell us what is going on, instead of deleting posts banning members and deleting pictures. Is this really Sprints stance, to hide facts and lie to it's paying customers? Every person on this Nexus board is still paying for their phones with their contracts. Why are we being treated this way? Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
"So you don't believe everything you read on the internet, yet you believe the rumor one guy (not a Sprint employee) posted on this forum that this was an internal rollout. As that one guy (techguy379) is the only and original source that this was an internal rollout, and looking at his other posts, he knows absolutely nothing about what Sprint is doing. Not to mention that if it was an internal rollout wouldn't the Sprint employees who leaked these screen shots have known that, as they are internal employees. I personally know for a fact that one of the screen shot leakers/posters was himself an NS4G owner, wouldn't it make sense that he would have been one of the internal testers, since he owned the phone the test was taking place on and was himself an internal employee of Sprint? The proof that Sprint or any other prvider has never done an internal rollout to test an OS on their employees is that we would have heard about it, on Twitter, Facebook, and XDA. Do you really think Sprint could control leaks from their 18 year old work force. Most companies can't even control leaks from their programers and coders. Come on. You also just proved yourself wrong, as Google is the only company that does internal rollouts of Android to test OS updates. Since they are the ones who make it. There has and never been a single reported case of a service provider (Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile) ever internally testing an OS update on their work force, and that is because they don't. Really you are just making yourself look silly. I am sure Sprint can take care of defending themselves without your ill informed help."
*update* Looks like nexuss4glies was banned and most posts deleted.
Here is a full account of what is going on at Sprint's forums.
http://sprintlies.tumblr.com/
Here is a reddit link as well http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/pyaow/a_full_record_of_how_sprint_is_deleting_its_users/
Your sense of entitlement is ridiculous at this point.
These updates take time, there is a massive amount of testing that has to happen before you release an update that could potentially brick hundreds of thousands of phones in one day. When working with a wireless carrier they must also test to make sure the radio is working properly with the network as well, in a variety of environments and situations.
If any problem comes up during these tests it has to start over again, if google has decided that 4.0.5 needs to be developed before they can re-test it, it's up to them. Google has never once stated a release date for ICS on our phones, sprint had it on an internal website for employees only (which could be a fake shot), not out there for public consumption. It's likely they are testing it internally and still awaiting approval somewhere down the line.
Just calm down, or just install the leak if you are really truely that desperate. The OTA will come out in due time and you'll look back at this and wonder how you could be so unreasonable.
They are releasing it as fast as humanly possible. Humans make mistakes, bugs can sometimes regress and appear again. Humans are flawed, humans write flawed code. Would you rather have a broken update or one that's stable enough to roll out to everyone?
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
bozzykid said:
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am trying to gain some transparency. I never stated that I thought ICS was being held back. But lets face it, there is no money in updating phones. The money is in selling them. I do believe that if more resources were put into development of updates it would result in faster updates. You would think this would be a priority for Google, at least with their flagship line of Nexus phones. Really, if this is what the "Nexus Experience" is supposed to be, then I am not on board. Second Sprint should have never sold this phone as a Nexus experience with "updates as soon as humanly possible" because the NS4G is not updated like the other GSM devices. Even Google has pulled CDMA Nexus's from it's Nexus developer page basically admitting that the update process works differently than the real (GSM) Nexus devices. I have a feeling this will all be happening again in a year when updates are needed for the Verizon and Sprint Galaxy Nexus.
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
petrochemicals said:
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
IMHO this is a little silly. Why does it even matter at this point? Almost every single ROM that is developed or being developed is ICS. We already have it so why would we need ota?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
Bauxite said:
I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is false advertising. The Nexus S 4G was falsely advertised by Sprint to me and everyone else when purchasing it, as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible". As for the definition I would consider it to be defined as the first time they released the OS back in December of last year. Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
Why you feel the need to protect billion dollar companies, I am not really sure. Any kind of company like these should be criticized constantly, otherwise they will walk all over us, just as they are in this situation. The bottom line is Sprint and Google have screwed up. The more attention that is drawn to that fact, the better. More transparency is needed in Sprint and Google's relationship with their customers and that is not going to be fixed by people like you that are making excuses for them.
petrochemicals said:
Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you just lost the argument entirely. Android 4.0 was developed for one phone at the start, the Galaxy Nexus, they stated it would come to the Nexus S eventually. Your argument is that the software is crap because they haven't written the device drivers fast enough for you. You want them to release broken software because you are entitled to fast updates.
Apparently to you 'as fast as humanly possible' means something entirely different, where humans are perfect creatures that never make coding mistakes. And on the off chance that the code was perfect to start it still takes time to TEST, time that has paid off already because they would have released a buggy update.
You can't just hire more engineers and throw more money at something to make it go faster. You assume your monthly WIRELESS USAGE fees go towards software development for one of sprint's 20+ phones. They don't.
Get over your false entitlement, they don't owe you anything.
lol @ people getting angry over ICS not being released yet
.... clearly you didn't have an Epic 4g and have to wait from September to March of the next year for Gingerbread.... we have nothing to complain about here in the NS4g forums
Quite honestly, yes the wait sucks, but it'll be worth it to not have the same type of bugs as NS3G users on TMobile and other international carries are facing. I used OICS then went back to gingerbread in December and have been waiting until the official OTA because I know it'll be better than ANY of the roms we have yet! Yes Sprint sucks, but they're trying to protect us. Also, as aforementioned by snowmanwithahat, at least we aren't like Epic 4G users and waiting 6 months or the other countless people in 2 year contracts not even on GB. Plus, no other phone that isn't a Nexus S has gotten the OTA yet so until then I'm still happy. I will, however, be furious if any other Sprint phone gets it first... Just my 2 pennies...
Which standalone wristphone seems to be the best one?
the best one at what?
looks? battery life? call quality?
neither is available yet, so how would anyone know?
Based on the pre production reviews and what little has been released, for now.
Skip Omate and it's kin, unless you want to tinker, patch and fix stuff.
Lokifish Marz said:
Skip Omate and it's kin, unless you want to tinker, patch and fix stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much altering are you talking about?
Do you have another recommendation?
How much time do you have? No, seriously. There's broken/inconsistent BT issues, build quality issues, water resistance issues, buggy firmware, security issues, bloatware, mic issues, "official specs" are wrong on a number of things..... This isn't coming from some guy with one Omate but five.
Not going to comment on the Samsung or Neptune as I have not used either.
Lokifish Marz said:
How much time do you have? No, seriously. There's broken/inconsistent BT issues, build quality issues, water resistance issues, buggy firmware, security issues, bloatware, mic issues, "official specs" are wrong on a number of things..... This isn't coming from some guy with one Omate but five.
Not going to comment on the Samsung or Neptune as I have not used either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is good to know. I will wait to see how the early adopters fair with the Pine before making a decision.
Lokifish Marz said:
How much time do you have? No, seriously. There's broken/inconsistent BT issues, build quality issues, water resistance issues, buggy firmware, security issues, bloatware, mic issues, "official specs" are wrong on a number of things..... This isn't coming from some guy with one Omate but five.
Not going to comment on the Samsung or Neptune as I have not used either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much of this does your patch fix? Can it also be applied to the EU version?
I must side with Loki on this. I bought the Omate and while it is nice it really does feel like it is still in beta design and functionality wise. It has some really strange software and design choices. Prime example is the volume on the device doesn't work like you expect, and you actually need a third party app to get it to work reasonably.
I also found out the default music player is absolutely useless if, like me, you listen to music via folder rather than artist. I had to download a app to get around this issue too.
The default keyboard doesn't always work when using apps. This is most annoying when entering passwords.
Don't get me wrong, I love the device and the potential, but.... I feel it will never reach it now. It seems Omate have annoyed too many people and many good devs like Loki have jumped ship. Until Omate get there act into gear I am concerned about how long the Omate platform will be around.
At the very lease, if you go Samsung you can get your watch fixed.
Is root going to be possible for this phone?
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
gk1984 said:
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for answering I happy to hear it I heard this is great now except for the camera app.
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
gk1984 said:
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind, Essential said repeatedly, week after week, while the phone was delayed 90 days beyond when they first said it would be released, that it would be "coming soon."
And they said recently that Oreo would come in the next couple months, which they described as "soon."
And the since it went up in May the website has said that the Stellar Grey and Ocean Depths colors would be "available soon." Even though in the AMA they admitted that they had no idea when those colors would be availalbe and in fact they don't even know how to get ceramic to be those colors, with their attempts so far failing (in other words, they said "available soon" for something they don't actually know how to make).
So Essential's idea of "soon" tends to be months and/or never. And, really, Essential seems to just say "soon" whenever anything is not ready, but they don't want people to go away, so instead they say "soon" to the point of meaninglessness, because they are unable to be honest about what's really going on.
I'm not saying they won't release the kernel source. I'm just saying their promises about when something might happen are empty and "soon" is just used as a delaying tactic.
cb474 said:
Keep in mind, Essential said repeatedly, week after week, while the phone was delayed 90 days beyond when they first said it would be released, that it would be "coming soon."
And they said recently that Oreo would come in the next couple months, which they described as "soon."
And the since it went up in May the website has said that the Stellar Grey and Ocean Depths colors would be "available soon." Even though in the AMA they admitted that they had no idea when those colors would be availalbe and in fact they don't even know how to get ceramic to be those colors, with their attempts so far failing (in other words, they said "available soon" for something they don't actually know how to make).
So Essential's idea of "soon" tends to be months and/or never. And, really, Essential seems to just say "soon" whenever anything is not ready, but they don't want people to go away, so instead they say "soon" to the point of meaninglessness, because they are unable to be honest about what's really going on.
I'm not saying they won't release the kernel source. I'm just saying their promises about when something might happen are empty and "soon" is just used as a delaying tactic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The AMA said "a couple days" so it might be sooner than "soon"
I guess expected to much because Andy Rubin was involved. The whole internet is saying essential was released too soon, that they should have worked out all the bugs first.
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
canynballa said:
I guess expected to much because Andy Rubin was involved. The whole internet is saying essential was released too soon, that they should have worked out all the bugs first.
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really was. That and them being severely understaffed, not a good combination.
What really bugs me is releasing kernel is a matter of a clicking a button and they have yet to click that upload button. Very frustrating. I have tried reaching out to them on Facebook and Twitter but there has been zero word from essential or Andy since the AMA. Their silence is troubling
I had the phone and really like the build quality.
What disappointed me was that no source released, so no customs recovery.
No image so you could return the phone back to stock.
No cases.
I sent it back and will see what V2 looks like.
hellot1M said:
What really bugs me is releasing kernel is a matter of a clicking a button and they have yet to click that upload button. Very frustrating. I have tried reaching out to them on Facebook and Twitter but there has been zero word from essential or Andy since the AMA. Their silence is troubling
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not Android technical but wasn't there mention of proprietary assets mingled it and would need to be removed? Also read somewhere that OnePlus released theirs but it was still hard to create kernels because of the way they released the source. I think it was someone on the AMA thread.
*edit*
C&P from the AMA below. Doesn't specifically mention kernel....
[–]AmirZ 8 points 11 days ago
So, ROM development. Can you commit to releasing ALL of your framework sources like Google does with AOSP and Nexus? One frustration with OnePlus is that their released sources are missing parts and thus work a lot worse than their real OS (OxygenOS).
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[–]EssentialOfficial 13 points 11 days ago
This actually turns out to be really hard technically. We're going to try to do more and more of this over time but ensuring you separate out any close source proprietary bits from the rest, but that things still work well is a big challenge. -Rebecca
flakko86 said:
The AMA said "a couple days" so it might be sooner than "soon"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
gqukyo said:
I'm not Android technical but wasn't there mention of proprietary assets mingled it and would need to be removed? Also read somewhere that OnePlus released theirs but it was still hard to create kernels because of the way they released the source. I think it was someone on the AMA thread.
*edit*
C&P from the AMA below. Doesn't specifically mention kernel....
[–]AmirZ 8 points 11 days ago
So, ROM development. Can you commit to releasing ALL of your framework sources like Google does with AOSP and Nexus? One frustration with OnePlus is that their released sources are missing parts and thus work a lot worse than their real OS (OxygenOS).
permalinkembedsavereportgive goldREPLYpocket
[–]EssentialOfficial 13 points 11 days ago
This actually turns out to be really hard technically. We're going to try to do more and more of this over time but ensuring you separate out any close source proprietary bits from the rest, but that things still work well is a big challenge. -Rebecca
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
cb474 said:
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not good.
cb474 said:
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta have that special sauce... lol
cb474 said:
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol well to look at it in a more positive light, I think the issue is he has a tendency to over promise and leave use twiddling our thumbs. Considering they are a relatively new company and are severely understaffed, the overpromising can be forgiven. However, when missing the said dates, there is barely any follow-up as to why the dates were missed leading to major concern for the customers. I think saying anything is better than silence. Like at least tell us that such and such update promised on such and such date has been moved.
On the plus side, during the AMA, VZW cert was promised and it was certified on the date promised. The recent security patch was released with bug fixes within a day of the Pixel. They have definitely improved thier presence on reddit which I think is a huge plus. They also have said on Twitter a couple hours ago that they are currently working on a Dev page for their website.
https://twitter.com/essential/status/912424863951810560
So calling them dishonest or not honorable or saying they aren't customer friendly I think is a bit of a stretch. I think they are still super swamped after getting knocked down from the initial release and are trying their darndest to get back on their feet so they can stay in the fight. Yes, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt but I think once Essential gets over this initial launch hurdle, promised timings will be a little more "on time" than they currently are.
flakko86 said:
Lol well to look at it in a more positive light, I think the issue is he has a tendency to over promise and leave use twiddling our thumbs. Considering they are a relatively new company and are severely understaffed, the overpromising can be forgiven. However, when missing the said dates, there is barely any follow-up as to why the dates were missed leading to major concern for the customers. I think saying anything is better than silence. Like at least tell us that such and such update promised on such and such date has been moved.
On the plus side, during the AMA, VZW cert was promised and it was certified on the date promised. The recent security patch was released with bug fixes within a day of the Pixel. They have definitely improved thier presence on reddit which I think is a huge plus. They also have said on Twitter a couple hours ago that they are currently working on a Dev page for their website.
https://twitter.com/essential/status/912424863951810560
So calling them dishonest or not honorable or saying they aren't customer friendly I think is a bit of a stretch. I think they are still super swamped after getting knocked down from the initial release and are trying their darndest to get back on their feet so they can stay in the fight. Yes, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt but I think once Essential gets over this initial launch hurdle, promised timings will be a little more "on time" than they currently are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a more generous way to look at it.
It's true the Verizon thing is the one thing I'm aware of where they made a promise about when something would happen and did it. I didn't say they never kept their promises. I said they have simply failed to keep them just about without exception. They didn't really promise a specific time on the security updates, as far as I'm aware, but it is good that they did it right away. Anyway, there have been so many promises they have not kept that I'm underwhelmed by the one instance where they did.
But, for me, the thing really is they have been called out repeatedly on tech sites and even in the AMA about their promises and not keeping them. Instead of owning up to that, they just do it again. They have been called out even more on how bad the camera is, especially in low light, and how it's inferior hardware can never live up to the hype. And yet to this day their website still says: "That’s why we put so much effort into developing one of the world’s best phone cameras." And: "This results in stunning images that are rich in color and detail, even in low light." (CNET critized them for keeping this on their website.) The camera was also brought up in the AMA. Rubin's response was hand waving jibberish about "computational photography," which is a technical term for bull**** (isn't, after all, all digital photography "computational"). Rubin also said, " We are pretty happy with the hardware design of the camera," even though the inferior sensors they are using was public knowledge by then. Rubin as recently as four days ago claimed in Time Magazine (http://time.com/4950677/andy-rubin-essential-interview/) that the reviewers received phones with incomplete camera software and that caused the problems, but there have been subsequent updates. This was long after the reviews had been out, the updates had been issued, and all the reviewers said it made little to no difference. This is not honesty. That is engaging knowningly in PR bull and trying to obfuscate something.
It's one thing to overpromise. It's another thing to overpromise and when you are called out on it double down on the overpromising. Further, there is zero way that the engineers within the company who worked on the camera didn't know that they were using sensors that are not as good as the best camera phones, so they knowingly claimed to make "one of the world's best phone cameras" when they knew that couldn't be true. They released the phone with that camera anyway, because there was nothing (much) more to be done.
Lastly, yes they are small and overworked. That seems clear. But even here, in promotional events, over and over, they have hyped the fact that being small makes them more effective and efficient, because there are not a lot of layers of bureaucracy to go through to make decisions and get things done. Yet clearly, being small in Essential's case means there are a lot of things they don't have time to do that well (and may never have time). And they have never said, oh, we're small, be patient. They have said over and over, being small makes us better. So if they weren't out there promoting the benefits of being small in contradiction to the reality, it would be easier to forgive them on this account.
When you add it all up, I just don't buy that it comes down to a simple tendency to overpromise. As they say, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think they are being knowingly dishonest or, at best, knowingly engaging in PR misdirection to try to mislead people about problems with the phone and company.
cb474 said:
That is a more generous way to look at it.
It's true the Verizon thing is the one thing I'm aware of where they made a promise about when something would happen and did it. I didn't say they never kept their promises. I said they have simply failed to keep them just about without exception. They didn't really promise a specific time on the security updates, as far as I'm aware, but it is good that they did it right away. Anyway, there have been so many promises they have not kept that I'm underwhelmed by the one instance where they did.
But, for me, the thing really is they have been called out repeatedly on tech sites and even in the AMA about their promises and not keeping them. Instead of owning up to that, they just do it again. They have been called out even more on how bad the camera is, especially in low light, and how it's inferior hardware can never live up to the hype. And yet to this day their website still says: "That’s why we put so much effort into developing one of the world’s best phone cameras." And: "This results in stunning images that are rich in color and detail, even in low light." (CNET critized them for keeping this on their website.) The camera was also brought up in the AMA. Rubin's response was hand waving jibberish about "computational photography," which is a technical term for bull**** (isn't, after all, all digital photography "computational"). Rubin also said, " We are pretty happy with the hardware design of the camera," even though the inferior sensors they are using was public knowledge by then. Rubin as recently as four days ago claimed in Time Magazine (http://time.com/4950677/andy-rubin-essential-interview/) that the reviewers received phones with incomplete camera software and that caused the problems, but there have been subsequent updates. This was long after the reviews had been out, the updates had been issued, and all the reviewers said it made little to no difference. This is not honesty. That is engaging knowningly in PR bull and trying to obfuscate something.
It's one thing to overpromise. It's another thing to overpromise and when you are called out on it double down on the overpromising. Further, there is zero way that the engineers within the company who worked on the camera didn't know that they were using sensors that are not as good as the best camera phones, so they knowingly claimed to make "one of the world's best phone cameras" when they knew that couldn't be true. They released the phone with that camera anyway, because there was nothing (much) more to be done.
Lastly, yes they are small and overworked. That seems clear. But even here, in promotional events, over and over, they have hyped the fact that being small makes them more effective and efficient, because there are not a lot of layers of bureaucracy to go through to make decisions and get things done. Yet clearly, being small in Essential's case means there are a lot of things they don't have time to do that well (and may never have time). And they have never said, oh, we're small, be patient. They have said over and over, being small makes us better. So if they weren't out there promoting the benefits of being small in contradiction to the reality, it would be easier to forgive them on this account.
When you add it all up, I just don't buy that it comes down to a simple tendency to overpromise. As they say, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think they are being knowingly dishonest or, at best, knowingly engaging in PR misdirection to try to mislead people about problems with the phone and company.
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I remember reading somewhere that someone messaged customer service and the rep said they would try to release the patches within two weeks of google's release.
I agree with you about the camera and how they are handling it. I think the AMA question should have been worded a bit more differently like "You claim to have one if the best cameras in the world but you are using a 2 year old sensor that is known to have problems with capturing images in low light. Other competitors at this price range such as the Google Pixel and the Samsung Galaxy S8 have far superior sensors. Can you really optimize the software that much to compete with them?". Something like that. Anyways, I forgot which reviewer stated it but there's a lot of hubris coming out of this company and I think that's what's causing them to have that "do no wrong" attitude, and Im not a big fan of it.
As for them being a small company, while the downside is not being able to handle handle thousands of orders and customers efficiently especially with a rushed buggy product (of course they will never admit that cuz hubris), im finding more recently that they are starting to frequent Reddit more often and I was assured when I sent the big bug report out, which was responded to in less than a day, that the company monitors the essential subreddit religiously and the software team is and will be referencing that thread. They aren't wrong in their statement about them being a smaller company. They just gotta shoot the issues and suggestions straight to the top making decisions a lot more efficient than a larger company. All I'm saying is let the dust settle from the launch and see how they deal with it the upcoming months
Maybe they'll do better the second time around when they make another phone.
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That's how OnePlus was.... their OPO launch was pretty horrible. They're doing much better now. Still with some hiccups but definitely much better than when they launched their first phone.
canynballa said:
Maybe they'll do better the second time around when they make another phone.
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Yes, I agree, what will really be telling will be if they incorporate any of the criticisms of the Ph-1 into the Ph-2 (assuming there is a Ph-2).
I received this reply this morning. No dates, but it sounds encouraging.
Erich T (Essential Products)
Sep 27, 9:32 AM MST
Hi Mark,
Thank you for reaching out.
We are going to support the 3rd party developer community by releasing our kernel and factory images. These will be made available soon, but I don't have a confirmed date at this time.
I don't know at this point where they will be uploaded to, but please stay tuned to Essential.com, and our social media channels for announcements.
If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to reach back out to us. Have a great day!
Sincerely,
Erich
Essential Customer Experience Team