Database Users

Cellphone Evolution

Caveats. I love my nexus one, and have never owned any form of Apple product.
I am more or less trying to see what other people's opinions are regarding the evolution of cellphones.
In my opinion these are more or less the large evolutions.
Skipping the Bag phone, and Night at the roxx bury model
1) Nokia - Who didn't have that wonderful brick!
2) Razr - Never had one, but certainly made size crucial -
3) Blackberry - They discovered there was money in smart phones.
4) Iphone - Will stay unbiased, they certainly moved the smartphone concept.
Where would I put the nexus one? I would say it's the pinnacle of #4. Personally, i think we are stuck in #4 for awhile, and much like computer's dont need to be upgraded as say 5 years ago, phones may be there as well(for now).
I highly doubt the next Iphone makes any huge leaps. The front camera may evolutionize phone sex, but that's about it.
How do we get to #5? In my opinion, this will be stuck on the borrrrrring battery technology. What does everyone else see?

Nexus One is 4.5. It shares many features of the iPhone and adds on top iof it with the concept of developer freedom, which I beleive is crucial for moving smartphone software forward.

Just to clarify. I definitely think the Nexus one is a massive improvement, and 4.5 is certainly accurate. You could be right in that we may never see a 5 by my metrics. Or not a clean jump at least. Continual small improvement could be the ongoing future.
Eitherway, I feel good that I wont be itching to "upgrade" this time next year(which says alot for the Nexus One)

Much as the MP3 player is being obsolesced by cell phones, I think "phones" in the traditional sense will eventually be obsolesced by the all-around computer that smartphones are becoming.

but its still called a smartphone lol

I don't think the Nexus One itself is that great of an evolution, it's just another Android phone.
I'd say the platform itself is much more important.
I love my Nexus One, it's far and away the most advanced phone I've ever owned, however it's not without faults, and ultimately it's just a high end Android handset, just like the Motorola Droid/Milestone.
As for the next "big" step/evolution, I don't know if there will be anything "big" per say. As has been touched on in this thread, smartphones as we know them are metamorphosing into mobile computers, so I don't really see the scope for anything more than incremental increases in processing power and operating systems.

video calls will be a big step... however the networks will have to mature before something as data intenisve as that steps up to the plate
another thing i think would be interesting as far as the future goes is developing a phone that truely functions as a portable computer where i can ditch my desktop (granted not my gaming pc) but hook the phone up to a dock of some sort which will give me access to a monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers, ect... the phone sort of goes into "pc mode" and functions as a regular computer

Video calls will be a big step?
Video calling was big advertised years ago.
And now, almost nobody really uses it.

K69 said:
Video calls will be a big step?
Video calling was big advertised years ago.
And now, almost nobody really uses it.
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when? i dont remember anything...
my thing is phones dont have a camera on the side that the screen is on... therefore its really not possible... not to mention its incredibly data intensive side so i really doubt what you are talking about is true... I would love to be able to video chat on my phone in a quality manner
sadly though, batteries are going to hinder mobile progress, li-ion batteries are nice but lets face it, its not very hard to run your nexus dry in about 5 hours if you wanted to... battery technology itself is getting old and some other source of power really needs to emerge to really stir the mobile market up

JHaste said:
when? i dont remember anything...
my thing is phones dont have a camera on the side that the screen is on... therefore its really not possible... not to mention its incredibly data intensive side so i really doubt what you are talking about is true... I would love to be able to video chat on my phone in a quality manner
sadly though, batteries are going to hinder mobile progress, li-ion batteries are nice but lets face it, its not very hard to run your nexus dry in about 5 hours if you wanted to... battery technology itself is getting old and some other source of power really needs to emerge to really stir the mobile market up
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Look at many phones in Asia, they've had video calling for years now. The US is just far behind when it comes to certain technologies. Japan has had international 3G video calling since August 2005 (3G was invented in Japan). And has been running a 3G network since late 2001.
Video calling is way old.
As for the battery issue, nuclear batteries are the answer: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/07/tiny-nuclear-battery.html

Video calls are not going to b next. We had those since 2004 in europe and nobody really uses them. They are expensive and a good old phone call gets the job done anyway. I concur with batteries and increemental steps in OSs and computing power, allghough nuclear batteries are still far to come. (Too bad, i had my proton pack almost ready...). This said the N1 is probably the best phone i had ever. Nothing it cannot do. Nothing I have to think"it's just a phone" for. I just love it

SPAS79 said:
Video calls are not going to b next. We had those since 2004 in europe and nobody really uses them. They are expensive and a good old phone call gets the job done anyway. I concur with batteries and increemental steps in OSs and computing power, allghough nuclear batteries are still far to come. (Too bad, i had my proton pack almost ready...). This said the N1 is probably the best phone i had ever. Nothing it cannot do. Nothing I have to think"it's just a phone" for. I just love it
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I can't see video calls on mobile phones becoming practical. The whole point of making phones calls on a mobile phone is because its MOBILE! For a video call, you have to be looking at the screen. This presents a few issues: First off, walking down the street while talking and looking at the screen is not a good idea for obvious reasons. Second, both the earpiece and microphone will be far away from you, forcing you to use either the speaker and yell into the phone, destroying any concept of privacy, or wearing a headset every time you want to talk on the phone. Having a wired headset will be a bit uncomfortable becasue the phone will be in your hand at a good length from your face, leaving the most ideal option to be a bluetooth headset.
There is also the problem of battery life. Talking on the phone AND streaming a video feed will no doubt put a lot of strain on the battery, especially if the video stream must be high quality and play back smoothly. In addition, bluetooth may be used for your wireless headset. Current batteries in smartphones will be able to pull this off for ~3 hours MAX, not including battery drain while on standby, and not taking into account how good your signal is (the lower the signal the more drain on the battery).

Austria was one of the first countries where video calling was available (may 2003).
Many phones with front cams where sold and in the first months you even could video call for free.
Now almost seven years later nobody talks about it.

Weak WiFi Signal

(Search feature is down but I don't remember seeing anything about this)
It seems like the wifi signal is really weak on my Nexus S (stock, MoDaCo rX, and Cyanogen alpha). The only time I get full bars is if stand right in front of the router. Sometimes it will drop a bar or two even when I am in the same room as the router.
I'm out of the country at the moment and unable to test it with my network at home to compare performance to the N1 or MT4G I used to have. Can I get some feedback from other users about their wifi strength? I might have to find a way to return/exchange the phone from here before the end of the remorse period if it's a problem unique to my device.

c_licious said:
(Search feature is down but I don't remember seeing anything about this)
It seems like the wifi signal is really weak on my Nexus S (stock, MoDaCo rX, and Cyanogen alpha). The only time I get full bars is if stand right in front of the router. Sometimes it will drop a bar or two even when I am in the same room as the router.
I'm out of the country at the moment and unable to test it with my network at home to compare performance to the N1 or MT4G I used to have. Can I get some feedback from other users about their wifi strength? I might have to find a way to return/exchange the phone from here before the end of the remorse period if it's a problem unique to my device.
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Actually have it listed as a known issue in the FAQ after seeing an article pop up from Androidcentral.com shortly after launch.
But, yes, I can confirm this. I'm literally sitting right next to my router and have a full three bars. If I move to the couch, it'll switch between 2-3 and if I go into my bedroom, it'll do it from 1-2. I'm in a relatively small apartment, btw lol.
Interestingly enough, while the graphic displays a weaker signal and testing from market apps does indeed show a weaker signal, I don't really notice much in the way of speed loss or instability.

Yap, same here.
If i go to about 30 ft away, i'm done...no wifi!

unremarked said:
Actually have it listed as a known issue in the FAQ after seeing an article pop up from Androidcentral.com shortly after launch.
But, yes, I can confirm this. I'm literally sitting right next to my router and have a full three bars. If I move to the couch, it'll switch between 2-3 and if I go into my bedroom, it'll do it from 1-2. I'm in a relatively small apartment, btw lol.
Interestingly enough, while the graphic displays a weaker signal and testing from market apps does indeed show a weaker signal, I don't really notice much in the way of speed loss or instability.
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Yea, just read your thread (slapping myself on the wrist for posting too soon). Unfortunately, it does seem to cause some instability for me as it occasionally disconnects completely due to the low signal.
Do you think this is the same for all devices and has just gone unnoticed for those who don't heavily rely on wifi. Or would an exchange be my best option at this point? Not sure how much of a hardware vs software fix this would be...

No issues here. The reception isn't great, but it's a phone. Small WiFi card. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I feel like 30-50 feet through the walls and/or floors of a house/apartment is pretty reasonable for a device like this. Of course, as always, the more obstacles (physical barriers and electronic interference) the signal has to go through to get to your phone, the worse the reception will be at any given distance, so there are a lot of potential influencing factors.

zorak950 said:
No issues here. The reception isn't great, but it's a phone. Small WiFi card. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I feel like 30-50 feet through the walls and/or floors of a house/apartment is pretty reasonable for a device like this. Of course, as always, the more obstacles (physical barriers and electronic interference) the signal has to go through to get to your phone, the worse the reception will be at any given distance, so there are a lot of potential influencing factors.
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That's why it's such a handicap not being able to test it on my home network at the moment where I could compare it to my experience with my previous android devices.

alot of routers no longer have external antennas reducing the possible range. just an idea but who knows

c_licious said:
Yea, just read your thread (slapping myself on the wrist for posting too soon). Unfortunately, it does seem to cause some instability for me as it occasionally disconnects completely due to the low signal.
Do you think this is the same for all devices and has just gone unnoticed for those who don't heavily rely on wifi. Or would an exchange be my best option at this point?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure either way, actually. It may be something that can be fixed with a software update or tweak considering that the Nexus One(which has a noticable stronger signal) and the Nexus S seem to be pretty close in model number(BCM4329EKU86 Nexus One vs BCM4329GKUBG Nexus S).
I couldn't find a tear down that detailed the WiFi chip found in the Galaxy S devices which would be more useful for a comparison. So, I guess, my point is that it may be something a relevantly unnoticed flaw in the device itself and exchanging it might not do anything.
I guess this is our trade off for a working GPS unit?

I dont think its based off of root, i'm on stock, and the same thing happens to me!!

The Nexus S uses a low power wifi chip, which is thought to be the cause of this (VERY well known) weak wifi reception issue. Google "Nexus S weak wifi".
You can verify it easily by running a wifi sniffer (e.g. "Wifi Analyzer" from the market). The NS's reception drops quickly with distance from router. This isn't the router's fault.

ravidavi said:
The Nexus S uses a low power wifi chip, which is thought to be the cause of this (VERY well known) weak wifi reception issue. Google "Nexus S weak wifi".
You can verify it easily by running a wifi sniffer (e.g. "Wifi Analyzer" from the market). The NS's reception drops quickly with distance from router. This isn't the router's fault.
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Definitely isnt the routers fault. I have two MTS, my original G1 and N1, Two Laptops a PS3 and a PSP.
This is the only device that struggles to find a signal.

jspookss said:
Definitely isnt the routers fault. I have two MTS, my original G1 and N1, Two Laptops a PS3 and a PSP.
This is the only device that struggles to find a signal.
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I am a former G1 guy myself, it had a very strong signal, Nexus S not so much. It is making me a bit irritated. It is an important feature sine I prefer to use wifi instead of 3G. It's much faster.

I have the same issue. When I turn on wifi the status icon takes about 20 seconds to turn from grey to green and on top of that even in the same room I don't get full bars. This really blows.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

Atrix Data Speed Vs iPhone 4 / LG Vortex

I know all Atrix users are having problems with slower data connections than using, say the iPhone 4. So I went ahead and did a quick video of, iPhone 4 and Verizon LG Vortex to show the speed difference. Clearly you can see that the Atrix is very slow in uploading, but overall was pretty close in download speeds with the iPhone 4. I have been averaging around 2.2 Mps down and .31 upload. Overall when using the Atrix phone to look up anything in the Market place or web browsing, and or using a app that requires data, it feels much faster overall. Could be that the Dual-Core is helping in this. My next video will be, comparing on the phone browsing and using data apps to compare.
Here is the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA72kfo856w

Ya shouldn't run both ATT phones at the same time.

zephxiii said:
Ya shouldn't run both ATT phones at the same time.
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Why its a fair real work comparison that way. No one is going to be the only one running a connection at any give time.
Sent from my Delorean using a flux capacitor!

compumasta said:
Why its a fair real work comparison that way. No one is going to be the only one running a connection at any give time.
Sent from my Delorean using a flux capacitor!
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If you are interested in testing the device's ultimate speed, you shouldn't be running the test at the same time right next to each other period. That causes channel interference (if on same carrier) which degrades performance, not to mention you are cutting available air interface resources in half in on the same channel/sector. That is not going to tell you jack **** about how the device performs (as far as above average potential) in comparison to another device on the same network...it only really shows how each device handles data in a crappy signal situation....interestingly ATT was better than VZW.
It has been demonstrated that the Atrix lacks HSUPA and will generally not perform as well as iPhone4 (or other HSUPA enabled device) until this problem is resolved.

zephxiii said:
If you are interested in testing the device's ultimate speed, you shouldn't be running the test at the same time right next to each other period. That causes channel interference (if on same carrier) which degrades performance, not to mention you are cutting available air interface resources in half in on the same channel/sector. That is not going to tell you jack **** about how the device performs (as far as above average potential) in comparison to another device on the same network...it only really shows how each device handles data in a crappy signal situation....interestingly ATT was better than VZW.
It has been demonstrated that the Atrix lacks HSUPA and will generally not perform as well as iPhone4 (or other HSUPA enabled device) until this problem is resolved.
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I think you misunderstood what he's saying. In the real world, you could be standing next to someone else using an AT&T phone, so that interference isn't unexpected. How the device handles that kind of interference is absolutely relevant information.

Ririal said:
I think you misunderstood what he's saying. In the real world, you could be standing next to someone else using an AT&T phone, so that interference isn't unexpected. How the device handles that kind of interference is absolutely relevant information.
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In the real world, he probably isn't running a speedtest right when you are.
It's still pointless as if you are trying to compare device speeds on the network, you need to give them ideal conditions....otherwise you aren't comparing the devices really. This is obvious because it isn't showing the Atrix's crippled network interface.

zephxiii said:
In the real world, he probably isn't running a speedtest right when you are.
It's still pointless as if you are trying to compare device speeds on the network, you need to give them ideal conditions....otherwise you aren't comparing the devices really. This is obvious because it isn't showing the Atrix's crippled network interface.
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I'm not even sure I understand what you're arguing. Someone next to you is not using a data connection if they're not running a speedtest? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. The speed of the phone next to you is irrelevant. A phone pulling down 1000Mbps as opposed to 100Mbps won't magically decrease the surrounding signal. In modern devices, channel interference like that isn't really a problem anyway.

Ririal said:
I'm not even sure I understand what you're arguing. Someone next to you is not using a data connection if they're not running a speedtest? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. The speed of the phone next to you is irrelevant. A phone pulling down 1000Mbps as opposed to 100Mbps won't magically decrease the surrounding signal. In modern devices, channel interference like that isn't really a problem anyway.
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Click to collapse
Based on that statement, it looks like you really don't understand how WCDMA (or CDMA based) networks work. Channel noise, noise floor, neighboring interference etc. plays a huge part in network performance. So yes, even though signal receive strength may be very good, performance can suffer from channel noise...and I see it all the time in cell overlap areas (I live in one even).
And when you have two devices like that operating right next to each other using the same ARFCN, especially if one is in the upload portion of the test, it's going to create additional noise that the other device is going to have to fight through....then throw on top that both devices are fighting for whatever is left of free resources on the site..which is basically cutting whatever is left in half....if they are on the same sector/channel.

zephxiii said:
Based on that statement, it looks like you really don't understand how WCDMA (or CDMA based) networks work. Channel noise, noise floor, neighboring interference etc. plays a huge part in network performance. So yes, even though signal receive strength may be very good, performance can suffer from channel noise...and I see it all the time in cell overlap areas (I live in one even).
And when you have two devices like that operating right next to each other using the same ARFCN, especially if one is in the upload portion of the test, it's going to create additional noise that the other device is going to have to fight through....then throw on top that both devices are fighting for whatever is left of free resources on the site..which is basically cutting whatever is left in half....if they are on the same sector/channel.
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Click to collapse
I understand the theory, I've just never seen it affect a device in practice to any noticeable degree. I might get 3.15 down with no other devices nearby, and 3.14 down with several others running at once (GSM and CDMA devices).
Living in an area with several carriers fighting for the airways can impact performance, but again, I've never seen a big enough difference to care. Maybe you've just been in areas with outdated hardware or poor filtering. This is all from personal experience, however, and I live in Chicagoland where there is no shortage of service from any carrier.

I know some have said that having all 3 devices and running the test can affect the performances when running data. I was hoping to try to run a test that could show what would happen if you were out and happen to be close to other smartphones that might be accessing data.
I will post another video showing how the data performance is, by running the speed test one at a time. I did try that today, and I can say that whether I had all three running at the same time or run speed test one at a time, the speeds didn't not change much; maybe only .04 difference. So having all three running the speed test would only affect around .04 to .06 difference in download speed.
I will also do a test to compare the speed to open browser and going to websites.
Also when I was doing the speed test today with my Atrix, I was using it as a mobile hot spot to provide internet to my Samsung Galaxy Tab, and the download speeds on the Atrix was very good. I got around 3.0 Mbps down and .29 Mbps upload; which is very slow compared to my iPhone 4. Hopefully soon this will be fixed.

So in real world situations if others around me are using their phones/data I shouldn't judge how my phone performs based on that? Individual testing is fantastic, but I'm rarely the only person in the room with an AT&T smartphone so it's not practical. Everyday use throughout the day (speedtest app or not) is the only real way to judge data performance in my book.
Besides, the speedtest app can go from 1.2 to 3.4 to .08mbps in 3 consecutive tests. It's all over the place.
For browsing the Atrix should open pages quicker because the processor will help out along with the network speeds.

Does AGPS actually work - or not..!

Does AGPS actually work on the Acer A500, or android tablets in general? Programs like GPS Test and GPS Status can both clear and download AGPS data, but it does not seem to affect (improve) performance at all. I have tested this MANY times and it just seems useless. My third A500 (3.01 still) seems to have weak GPS pickup and usually cannot fix or even see any sats in my house.
Rob

For me, yes it does work - I have wifi location off and can get multiple fixes indoors after some 10-25 seconds.
You may just be unlucky and still have a bad one (I've read that sometimes the gps antenna comes loose and fall behind things, interfering with the signal)

It works, at least in my case. I have had situations where it locks in a minute or 2. I have had situations where it takes 10m to lock. I have had situations where it locks on in my home, and situations where it absolutely refuses to.
What I do know is that it works and works well when I'm outside, period.
GPS are best at grabbing their signals while outdoors, in the open. People here are using it from their homes or expect it to lock on in 2m flat. While it CAN be used this way, and can lock in that quickly, it needs more time to acquire a signal indoors and if it doesn't, that doesn't mean it's broken. That just means the signal can't get through the walls. If it works today and not tomorrow, consider the possibility that there may be more clouds in the sky or external interference.
I'm sure some people have gotten bad ones, but in most cases I believe people are just trying to get blood from wine ie: they are attempting to use and get the best performance outside of the intended parameters of use of the feature.
If you're outside and have been for 30m and it doesn't work, THEN you may have a problem. Until then, works as intended.

Mine works great also. I get a lock in about 10 seconds. Go outside, and lock is much faster if don't move. I use it as a car GPS. Just wait for it to lock and then it's working great.

mine works also, i have to go outside, but it works.

I to can confirm my GPS works very well.I use the new Co_pilot.I can get a lock in the house in about 2 minutes after a tab reboot.after it locked once. A restart of the app it can lock in as little as 5 to 20 seconds.it will keep the lock.However. I have not found the issue but once in a while it can tar it forever to get a fix.even thou its seeing 5 to 7 sat's.trying to get a fix while moving takes a few minutes as well.now Google navigation will lock rather fast if I start it before I leave my drive.guessing its still using my wifi to get a fix.because it will take forever otherwise.
Co pilot I thing does something tobthe configuration file to improve GPS.
This is only my openion if you think im wrong your welcome to that.don't bash mine thank you

Hardware failure is not out of the question. I had to return two tablets for this very issue. The third tablet I got was like night and day.
1st tablet never got more than one sat, and never locked, while outside on a clear day.
2nd tablet never saw one satellite in the whole 5 days I owned it.
3rd tablet gets 10+ satellites outside and about 4 inside. Locks in about 30 seconds outside and 2-5 minutes inside. Not perfect, but useable for navigation in my car (which is what its for).
The sales manager at the store said faulty GPS was the number one reason he got this pad returned, and he got quite a few of them. He said Acer was being very tight lipped about it. I suspect they know they have a problem and are hoping it flies under the radar long enough to get a working batch out there.

pacificwing said:
Hardware failure is not out of the question. I had to return two tablets for this very issue. The third tablet I got was like night and day.
1st tablet never got more than one sat, and never locked, while outside on a clear day.
2nd tablet never saw one satellite in the whole 5 days I owned it.
3rd tablet gets 10+ satellites outside and about 4 inside. Locks in about 30 seconds outside and 2-5 minutes inside. Not perfect, but useable for navigation in my car (which is what its for).
The sales manager at the store said faulty GPS was the number one reason he got this pad returned, and he got quite a few of them. He said Acer was being very tight lipped about it. I suspect they know they have a problem and are hoping it flies under the radar long enough to get a working batch out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I can say is, oh my god! I bought a Xoom today and the only thing I did was install GPS Test on it. Upstairs in my room, it sees and locks 8-10 satellites almost instantly. The acer, can barely see 1 satellite in my house, forget about getting a lock, maybe it you wait long enough and don't breathe on it. Also, the SNR numbers on the Xoom are substantially better indoors than the Acer gets outdoors! There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever now that this current Acer unit I have has a defective (or just poor quality) GPS.
I uploaded a quick video of the xoom, sorry about the grainy video, it was taken with my old hp camera... You'll get the point though. I wish the GPS on the Acer worked even half as good as this Xoom appears to (so far).
Vid should be available shortly.
http://vimeo.com/26498687
Rob
ps. I also have a new Samsung Galaxy Vibrant phone, the GPS on that is just as bad as the acer, probably a bit worse.

silverball.slayer said:
All I can say is, oh my god! I bought a Xoom today and the only thing I did was install GPS Test on it. Upstairs in my room, it sees and locks 8-10 satellites almost instantly. The acer, can barely see 1 satellite in my house, forget about getting a lock, maybe it you wait long enough and don't breathe on it. Also, the SNR numbers on the Xoom are substantially better indoors than the Acer gets outdoors! There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever now that this current Acer unit I have has a defective (or just poor quality) GPS.
I uploaded a quick video of the xoom, sorry about the grainy video, it was taken with my old hp camera... You'll get the point though. I wish the GPS on the Acer worked even half as good as this Xoom appears to (so far).
Vid should be available shortly.
http://vimeo.com/26498687
Rob
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can check out mine
Indoor... after an all day rain... locked under 20 seconds
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15472832&postcount=37

UnicornKaz said:
You can check out mine
Indoor... after an all day rain... locked under 20 seconds
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15472832&postcount=37
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Click to collapse
I have wifi assist turned off on my xoom, plus it does not have 3g either. Your acer looks not too bad, but the xoom still obliterates it speedwise with a gps fix. This is the third A500 I have had. The first was DOA and the second one had a bad microphone. This third one has been good except for the GPS. The second one had much better functioning GPS compared to this third one. I am tired of playing musical tablets though and I want one that just plain works. I could get another Acer, but who knows if the GPS will work properly on that one or not. Compared to the Xoom, the Acer GPS does not seem very good at all. Too bad, since it's an otherwise great unit.
edit: I did some searching and it seems the Xoom has a better hardware GPS implementation, but I have not found the exact details just yet.
Rob

I guess we know what happened to all those failed GPS A500's that got returned. A few of the big chains (futureshop) has just started selling a refurbished model for $100 cheaper than the new release ones.
That was a quick turn around.

pacificwing said:
I guess we know what happened to all those failed GPS A500's that got returned. A few of the big chains (futureshop) has just started selling a refurbished model for $100 cheaper than the new release ones.
That was a quick turn around.
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I saw that too. I wonder what the return rate on these has been? Futureshop has quite a few A500 in stock and they don't seem to be selling. People are definitely interested in the tablets, but the average consumer is going to be confused with the current choices available. Acer doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation to live up to, but I think the A500 is a pretty good unit if it everything works like it should.
Rob

Try this and all your gps problems are over at least in the US
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1152318&highlight=gps

tomlogan1 said:
Try this and all your gps problems are over at least in the US
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1152318&highlight=gps
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Click to collapse
There is no question that the aGPS software is not tuned ideally with new A500's. Unfortunately, for some, this is not the only issue. There IS a hardware aspect to this problem. This is evident by the fact that so many users can exchange their stock units for brand new units and get entirely different results.
The above fix will optimize your GPS locking, I'm sure; but only if your adapter actually works in the first place.
In regards to android tablets not selling, I suspect it's just marketing. Android is still the new kid on the block. Even out of the gate, most android tabs offer much more than an ipad at a much better price, but people walk right past them in order to get themselves a tablet that has the shiny white apple logo on the back. They want to be able to tell their friends that they got an IPAD.
Also, those who actually are in the know, might be a little hesitant about android at the moment. Every single android tablet currently on the market has had release problems. The ACER has its GPS and Wifi problems, the samsung has its screen issue, the Xoom has the fiasco with the SD card, the thrive has its sleep disorder. They are all minor, and they will undoubtedly get worked out. It just makes people second guess going with android.
Plus, Mac is playing the major patent troll card right now. They just hammered HTC pretty hard, and other android distributors are rightfully worried. This will no doubt affect the future of the platform as a whole.

IM am a little confussed here. why is everyone complaining because thier tabs dont gps lock indoors? most car gps's dont lock indoors. why would you even need to get a sat signal for gps in your living room? are you having trouuble finding the kitchen?
This is a great tablet and only complains i have heard from people about it is people tring to do silly things with it and then getting upset because it wont do the silly things.
Sat signals were never ment to penatrate roofs and walls thats why your direct tv dish and xm or sirius sat anntennas are OUTSIDE i think you guys are complaining about something it wasent ment to do, and why the nav program has wifi assist so that you can use the nav program at home to plan routes. then switch to the sat once you GO OUT SIDE.
But my main question still is why do you need a sat signal sitting in your living room and why are you complaining when you dont get one?
and also to the people just *****ing non stop about the charger cord really? its like your just looking to complain about something. agan the whole point of the tablet is to be portable not to be used while teathered to a wall socket. so what the cord is a little smaller then other peoples. what are you gonna do with a cord thats 2 foot longer that you cant do with this one?
This s a great tablet and all anyone is doing is complaining about stupid stuff.
well i am mad because the tablet didnt buy itself and walk to my house and set itself up for me. really sat signals arent suppose to work indoors who needs a sat signal indoors? and just because you do get one indoors dosent mean your suppose too. if your getting sat signals indoors i would be questioning the build quality of my house and not the tablet.

harlaquin said:
...if your getting sat signals indoors i would be questioning the build quality of my house and not the tablet.
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Click to collapse
... ...

harlaquin said:
IM am a little confussed here. why is everyone complaining because thier tabs dont gps lock indoors? most car gps's dont lock indoors. why would you even need to get a sat signal for gps in your living room? are you having trouuble finding the kitchen?
This is a great tablet and only complains i have heard from people about it is people tring to do silly things with it and then getting upset because it wont do the silly things.
Sat signals were never ment to penatrate roofs and walls thats why your direct tv dish and xm or sirius sat anntennas are OUTSIDE i think you guys are complaining about something it wasent ment to do, and why the nav program has wifi assist so that you can use the nav program at home to plan routes. then switch to the sat once you GO OUT SIDE.
But my main question still is why do you need a sat signal sitting in your living room and why are you complaining when you dont get one?
and also to the people just *****ing non stop about the charger cord really? its like your just looking to complain about something. agan the whole point of the tablet is to be portable not to be used while teathered to a wall socket. so what the cord is a little smaller then other peoples. what are you gonna do with a cord thats 2 foot longer that you cant do with this one?
This s a great tablet and all anyone is doing is complaining about stupid stuff.
well i am mad because the tablet didnt buy itself and walk to my house and set itself up for me. really sat signals arent suppose to work indoors who needs a sat signal indoors? and just because you do get one indoors dosent mean your suppose too. if your getting sat signals indoors i would be questioning the build quality of my house and not the tablet.
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Click to collapse
Please don't troll.

harlaquin said:
IM am a little confussed here. why is everyone complaining because thier tabs dont gps lock indoors? most car gps's dont lock indoors. why would you even need to get a sat signal for gps in your living room? are you having trouuble finding the kitchen?
This is a great tablet and only complains i have heard from people about it is people tring to do silly things with it and then getting upset because it wont do the silly things.
Sat signals were never ment to penatrate roofs and walls thats why your direct tv dish and xm or sirius sat anntennas are OUTSIDE i think you guys are complaining about something it wasent ment to do, and why the nav program has wifi assist so that you can use the nav program at home to plan routes. then switch to the sat once you GO OUT SIDE.
But my main question still is why do you need a sat signal sitting in your living room and why are you complaining when you dont get one?
and also to the people just *****ing non stop about the charger cord really? its like your just looking to complain about something. agan the whole point of the tablet is to be portable not to be used while teathered to a wall socket. so what the cord is a little smaller then other peoples. what are you gonna do with a cord thats 2 foot longer that you cant do with this one?
This s a great tablet and all anyone is doing is complaining about stupid stuff.
well i am mad because the tablet didnt buy itself and walk to my house and set itself up for me. really sat signals arent suppose to work indoors who needs a sat signal indoors? and just because you do get one indoors dosent mean your suppose too. if your getting sat signals indoors i would be questioning the build quality of my house and not the tablet.
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Click to collapse
Your comments are fair enough, I suppose. I'll assume you're not trolling. But I'd ask you to consider the following:
Some A500 owners (obviously, yourself included) have a working GPS module, and can use it as well as can be expected. Other A500 owners (obviously, yourself not included) have a broken GPS, and cannot use it as expected. In fact, it is broken so badly that they never get a signal under even the most ideal circumstances. There is no question that GPS performance seems to vary from unit to unit.
Considering that, your comments confuse me. Are you saying that these unfortunate A500 owners with malfunctioning GPS units have no right to complain? Are you saying they have no right to gather on a forum and try to troubleshoot the issue? Are you saying that they should not be allowed to test their units within the comfort of their own home? Are you saying they should not be allowed to communicate and compare results?
Assuming it's not too subtle, I'll leave you to detect the irony in my statement when I say that I'm deeply sorry if the strife of these less fortunate A500 owners offends you in some way.
Furthermore, I'm also sorry that you don't understand a persons desire to "play" with his or her new toy without leaving the house. Perhaps it doesn't make much logical sense, but a hobbyists enthusiasm rarely does. You can take solace in knowing that you are not required to understand it. Nor are you required to be offended by it.
Cheers,
-PW

No I am not trolling what ever that even means. Granted I may have been a bit harsh with my comments but, my point is that they are expecting thier tablet to do something tha is simply isnt ment to do. they are complainin that its broke because it is not doing something that again it was not ment to do.
gps sat signals are not ment to be recieved indoors period. go take you gps out of your car and see if it dosent lose signal indoors. it will does that mean its broken? no My point sinply was that gps sat signals were never ment to be recieved indoors on any device thats why sat tv dishes and xm radios attenas are mounted outside. because sat signals either dont penatrate buildings at all or not very well if they did then there would be no need for external attenas for t.v and sat radio.
This is why if you want to play with you nav on your tablet there is a wifi assit mode for INDOORS.
I was simply stating people are complaining about something that wasent ment to work the way they assume it should.
I am in no way putting down anyone who has a defective a500 and from what i have read the new updates have fixed most all issues. i was simply stating that not being able to get gps indoors in not a defect nothing gets gps signal or a good gps signal indoors. my comments were directed to those persons.
same as the people who are complaining because no usb charging. well if they would read they would know thier tab has two yes two 3620 mah batteries that have a greater power consumption then what usb provides and cant be recharged by usb that same as about 98% of all other tablets on the market but yet there is post after post of people complaining and saying its a defect when its not.
why is it if someone points out the truth they get accussed of being a troll? just tring to inform is all because if you go and return your iconia for something else and guess what its not gonna get gps indoors either or charge from usb because thats the nature of the beast. not a defect just trying to help sorry i worded like i did im just blunt.
Now if you want to descuse defects how about acers software? anyone else find thier clear.fi not working? Im having to use third party soft to be a client to my nas because all thiers does is show pictures but not any other files.

But nobody in this thread complained about not getting a fix indoors, you implied we were. I think we all know that indoors is obviously not the most ideal place for GPS signals. The third A500 I had to return (1st DOA, 2nd bad mic) because it performed poorly when it was in my vehicle and not much better when outside. It definitely performed worse than the one it replaced - which I would have kept except it had a bad microphone. I tested it A LOT outdoors and in my vehicle. It always seemed quite slow to find satellites, let alone get a fix. I also tested a Xoom indoors and posted a video of the results, just to show how well that unit worked even under less than ideal conditions. It may be an apples and oranges comparison though since the GPS hardware is probably different. So I returned the third A500 and I have a 4th one now. The microphone is good and guess what, the GPS seems to work quite well. Not as good as the Xoom still, but my fixes are now done in seconds as opposed to minutes. I have not tested it in the car yet, but inside the house it's maintaining a fix with pretty good SNR numbers.
If you get a chance, check out the thread I posted about the web browser 'find on page' feature being broken in the latest 3.1 update. It has worked about twice in the 20 times I have tried it.
Rob

The source of the problems is likely the Tegra processor.

As someone who has been hunting for a good Android tablet for months now, I read a LOT of forums and user-reviews. One thing that I've noticed time and time again is that devices that are powered with Nvidia's Tegra processors have an unusually large amount of unhappy users, and the complaints are more or less the same.
- Poor wifi strength/speed
- Touch screen input problems
- Random shutdowns/reboots
- UI Lag
- Device heating up when doing things that are not traditionally intensive tasks.
It's not a Marshmallow (or even Android) problem guys. The combination of some/all of the above problems is comparatively unheard of on Exynos and Snapdragon powered devices. I'm not an engineer so I don't know whether it's a problem innate to the hardware or poor driver support or something else, but I'm enough of an Android fan to have seen a really obvious pattern emerging when looking to buy a device and comparing reviews. I've personally experienced these problems on the Nvidia Shield Tablet K1 and there's a whole giant army of unsatisfied Nexus 9 users out there, and now the Pixel C is sounding like a similar story. You'll recall similar stories about the Nexus 7 2012 as well.
I really wish Google would have waited a little longer and used a next-gen Snapdragon chip in this tablet, it would have been great.

Most of those issues would make sense because of poor software that doesn't utilize the Chipset properly. Not because of the CPU/GPU itself.
It would make sense if you were blaming the touchscreen controller and wifi chipset itself.
I myself have few issues with my Pixel C, and the issues I do have are across all my android devices.
All this speculation about the issues of this device are unnecessary. If you have the device then report your issues to Google for the benefit of all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sleepinlight said:
As someone who has been hunting for a good Android tablet for months now, I read a LOT of forums and user-reviews. One thing that I've noticed time and time again is that devices that are powered with Nvidia's Tegra processors have an unusually large amount of unhappy users, and the complaints are more or less the same.
- Poor wifi strength/speed
- Touch screen input problems
- Random shutdowns/reboots
- UI Lag
- Device heating up when doing things that are not traditionally intensive tasks.
It's not a Marshmallow (or even Android) problem guys. The combination of some/all of the above problems is comparatively unheard of on Exynos and Snapdragon powered devices. I'm not an engineer so I don't know whether it's a problem innate to the hardware or poor driver support or something else, but I'm enough of an Android fan to have seen a really obvious pattern emerging when looking to buy a device and comparing reviews. I've personally experienced these problems on the Nvidia Shield Tablet K1 and there's a whole giant army of unsatisfied Nexus 9 users out there, and now the Pixel C is sounding like a similar story. You'll recall similar stories about the Nexus 7 2012 as well.
I really wish Google would have waited a little longer and used a next-gen Snapdragon chip in this tablet, it would have been great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thing is the nvidia tv device does not have the big lines of problems and it is the device closest to pixel c.. i'd guess the magnets are a source of havoc.

I did some digging today in open source repos - all the below are just assumptions, I don't want to be a smartass.
If issues seem to be hardware related, usually it's the kernel, not the actual HW. One thing is sure, Google/Nvidia guys are working hard to get things right.
Some examples:
There are even separate branches in the Chomium kernel repos to stabilize the Pixel C: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/kernel/+refs - search for "stabilize-smaug" here.
This is almost surely the fix for the repeated key issues of the keyboard (was merged in mid-December): https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/kernel/+/5e09b5b68e2a09257cad69870989b7977797f09c
If you search for "touch" on the Chromium gerrit, there are literally dozens of fixes, most of them already merged. One that I think is related to the Pixel C, and might be a key one: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/#/c/320202/
I've also found a change related to the Pixel C that is still under review, Nvidia guys were talking about a deadline of next Thursday (14th January), until they need to fix something: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/#/c/314327/ - scroll down to the comments.
So, let's hope we'll receive an update by the end of the month. The only thing that I think can really be HW-related is the Wifi issue, but I hope I'm wrong.
PS: This is a bit unrelated, but I've found out from the device tree that the Keyboard firmware can be separately updated (the above fix is actually for the keyboard FW). The FW update will be the part of the system update, and after the first boot once you connect the keyboard a notification will appear to ask you to confirm the update. Afterwards it will apply the update via Bluetooth. Code here: https://android.googlesource.com/device/google/dragon/+/marshmallow-dr-dragon-release/DragonKeyboardFirmwareUpdater/

sethyx said:
I did some digging today in open source repos - all the below are just assumptions, I don't want to be a smartass.
If issues seem to be hardware related, usually it's the kernel, not the actual HW. One thing is sure, Google/Nvidia guys are working hard to get things right.
Some examples:
There are even separate branches in the Chomium kernel repos to stabilize the Pixel C: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/kernel/+refs - search for "stabilize-smaug" here.
This is almost surely the fix for the repeated key issues of the keyboard (was merged in mid-December): https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/kernel/+/5e09b5b68e2a09257cad69870989b7977797f09c
If you search for "touch" on the Chromium gerrit, there are literally dozens of fixes, most of them already merged. One that I think is related to the Pixel C, and might be a key one: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/#/c/320202/
I've also found a change related to the Pixel C that is still under review, Nvidia guys were talking about a deadline of next Thursday (14th January), until they need to fix something: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/#/c/314327/ - scroll down to the comments.
So, let's hope we'll receive an update by the end of the month. The only thing that I think can really be HW-related is the Wifi issue, but I hope I'm wrong.
PS: This is a bit unrelated, but I've found out from the device tree that the Keyboard firmware can be separately updated (the above fix is actually for the keyboard FW). The FW update will be the part of the system update, and after the first boot once you connect the keyboard a notification will appear to ask you to confirm the update. Afterwards it will apply the update via Bluetooth. Code here: https://android.googlesource.com/device/google/dragon/+/marshmallow-dr-dragon-release/DragonKeyboardFirmwareUpdater/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm thinking if a few big issues do not get resolved by next weekend [1/15-1/17] google may experience a large volume of returns prior to the 1-22 deadline for holiday purchases. google may want to put out an ota in hopes a lot of the issues go away. very nice post, btw, i appreciate all the digging.

OP is correct in his assumptions on the tegra processors. There are always issues with devices that have them especially when the device is first released. Usually it takes about 6 months to get rid of the issues with software/UI updates. The tegra k1 devices did not become stable until July 2015; more than 8 months after there release.....
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

sethyx said:
So, let's hope we'll receive an update by the end of the month. The only thing that I think can really be HW-related is the Wifi issue, but I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the digging but they have until around Jan. 22nd to get a fix out. I am not going to go on faith that the two major issues will be fixed. (wifi/touchscreen). The fact it was launched with these issues present on most of them is troubling.
dkryder said:
i'm thinking if a few big issues do not get resolved by next weekend [1/15-1/17] google may experience a large volume of returns prior to the 1-22 deadline for holiday purchases. google may want to put out an ota in hopes a lot of the issues go away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what I am thinking as well. I think a lot of people do not notice the wifi download issue because they are either close to their router or are not comparing the speeds next to other devices. I noticed it on day 2 when I was viewing my imgur albums and noticed considerable slower page load compared to other devices. That opened up a can or worms right there.
The touchscreen issue is very noticeable though. Hope these get fixed asap.

For what it's worth i'm 2 floors away from my router and on my 2nd Pixel (first one had a dodgy touchscreen) and the speed is completely fine

atg284 said:
Thanks for the digging but they have until around Jan. 22nd to get a fix out. I am not going to go on faith that the two major issues will be fixed. (wifi/touchscreen). The fact it was launched with these issues present on most of them is troubling.
That is what I am thinking as well. I think a lot of people do not notice the wifi download issue because they are either close to their router or are not comparing the speeds next to other devices. I noticed it on day 2 when I was viewing my imgur albums and noticed considerable slower page load compared to other devices. That opened up a can or worms right there.
The touchscreen issue is very noticeable though. Hope these get fixed asap.
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Click to collapse
My speeds compared to my 6 p were virtually identical. Router on another floor some 25 yds away.

bill3508 said:
My speeds compared to my 6 p were virtually identical. Router on another floor some 25 yds away.
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Must be nice. What router are you using? Are you on wifi AC or N ?

atg284 said:
Must be nice. What router are you using? Are you on wifi AC or N ?
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Click to collapse
This was my post a while back. 4000 sq ft 3 level home. Upstairs router is a Asus rt66, down stairs is a Actiontek or something like that. I have two different providers , one capped and the crappy dsl is not. I live out in the sticks.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=64460576

bill3508 said:
This was my post a while back. 4000 sq ft 3 level home. Upstairs router is a Asus rt66, down stairs is a Actiontek or something like that. I have two different providers , one capped and the crappy dsl is not. I live out in the sticks.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=64460576
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Click to collapse
Very odd. I have the same router and get noticeably slower download speeds abound 25-30ft from the router. On a different floor but still. I kind of live out in the sticks as well. Both units had the same exact issue. just wish this wasn't a problem.

atg284 said:
Thanks for the digging but they have until around Jan. 22nd to get a fix out. I am not going to go on faith that the two major issues will be fixed. (wifi/touchscreen). The fact it was launched with these issues present on most of them is troubling.
That is what I am thinking as well. I think a lot of people do not notice the wifi download issue because they are either close to their router or are not comparing the speeds next to other devices. I noticed it on day 2 when I was viewing my imgur albums and noticed considerable slower page load compared to other devices. That opened up a can or worms right there.
The touchscreen issue is very noticeable though. Hope these get fixed asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love the tablet and really would like to keep it, wifi issues are a deal breaker though, but I'll be happy to wait till the end of the month provided Google officially accepts the issues, confirms they are not hardware related (not sure if the forum post will be enough) and commits to a fix by the end of the month or at the very least extends the return period sufficiently. Just one guy's opinion.

Mine acts weird with the speed test app. It shows slower download speeds than my service provides during a speed test but will max out my service when actually downloading.

rohmbd said:
Mine acts weird with the speed test app. It shows slower download speeds than my service provides during a speed test but will max out my service when actually downloading.
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Click to collapse
I thought the same until I did side by side comparisons with other devices and there is a web based speed test that you can do as well:
http://testmy.net/

I am a bit curious about the noveau driver. I read that its graphics performance isn't very good in comparison to nvidia's own linux driver when testing desktop gpus in Ubuntu. Why, given this information, would Google use noveau? Also, would Google have forked noveau for ryu?

jamesrick80 said:
OP is correct in his assumptions on the tegra processors. There are always issues with devices that have them especially when the device is first released. Usually it takes about 6 months to get rid of the issues with software/UI updates. The tegra k1 devices did not become stable until July 2015; more than 8 months after there release.....
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you mean 2016? I'm a Nexus 9 owner and bought it mostly to play Clash of Clans... Yeah, it can be a lame reason to buy a tablet but it is the truth.
When you reach TH8 (Clash of Clans players know what I'm talking about), CPU &/or GPU can't handle the graphics... Well, I guess that it's still missing something to be solved on kernel side or even the bionic for denver still hasn't been optimized enough since using a custom kernel and OCing CPU and GPU makes graphics somehow become more fluid (while in the game) and the constant stuttering that causes the touch screen input problems (huge problems on this part, I have to touch three of four times on the same place for it to recognize what I want to do) or the lags almost disappears.
Now you're gonna say "But Nexus 9 is a beast and I run X game with it and it's fluid!" Yeah, I hear ya and you're right, but something is going on with this tablet and I still can't figure it out what it is... Is it the non-optimized kernel or the non-optimized bionic? Who knows... OCing is just hiding something that needs to be fixed in my opinion... Oh... Did I mention that the kernel defconfig doesn't have multi-core scheduler support activated (CONFIG_SCHED_MC)?

sethyx said:
The only thing that I think can really be HW-related is the Wifi issue, but I hope I'm wrong.[/URL]
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It seems that the WiFi issue was also caused by the kernel... https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/#/c/321155/4

sethyx said:
It seems that the WiFi issue was also caused by the kernel... https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/#/c/321155/4
Not cool, NVIDIA, not cool.
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This is actually great news as hopefully it isn't the magnets or some other hardware related issue and can be fixed.

sethyx said:
It seems that the WiFi issue was also caused by the kernel... https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/#/c/321155/4
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Click to collapse
Just FYI that patchset has nothing to do with the WiFi