I know all Atrix users are having problems with slower data connections than using, say the iPhone 4. So I went ahead and did a quick video of, iPhone 4 and Verizon LG Vortex to show the speed difference. Clearly you can see that the Atrix is very slow in uploading, but overall was pretty close in download speeds with the iPhone 4. I have been averaging around 2.2 Mps down and .31 upload. Overall when using the Atrix phone to look up anything in the Market place or web browsing, and or using a app that requires data, it feels much faster overall. Could be that the Dual-Core is helping in this. My next video will be, comparing on the phone browsing and using data apps to compare.
Here is the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA72kfo856w
Ya shouldn't run both ATT phones at the same time.
zephxiii said:
Ya shouldn't run both ATT phones at the same time.
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Click to collapse
Why its a fair real work comparison that way. No one is going to be the only one running a connection at any give time.
Sent from my Delorean using a flux capacitor!
compumasta said:
Why its a fair real work comparison that way. No one is going to be the only one running a connection at any give time.
Sent from my Delorean using a flux capacitor!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are interested in testing the device's ultimate speed, you shouldn't be running the test at the same time right next to each other period. That causes channel interference (if on same carrier) which degrades performance, not to mention you are cutting available air interface resources in half in on the same channel/sector. That is not going to tell you jack **** about how the device performs (as far as above average potential) in comparison to another device on the same network...it only really shows how each device handles data in a crappy signal situation....interestingly ATT was better than VZW.
It has been demonstrated that the Atrix lacks HSUPA and will generally not perform as well as iPhone4 (or other HSUPA enabled device) until this problem is resolved.
zephxiii said:
If you are interested in testing the device's ultimate speed, you shouldn't be running the test at the same time right next to each other period. That causes channel interference (if on same carrier) which degrades performance, not to mention you are cutting available air interface resources in half in on the same channel/sector. That is not going to tell you jack **** about how the device performs (as far as above average potential) in comparison to another device on the same network...it only really shows how each device handles data in a crappy signal situation....interestingly ATT was better than VZW.
It has been demonstrated that the Atrix lacks HSUPA and will generally not perform as well as iPhone4 (or other HSUPA enabled device) until this problem is resolved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you misunderstood what he's saying. In the real world, you could be standing next to someone else using an AT&T phone, so that interference isn't unexpected. How the device handles that kind of interference is absolutely relevant information.
Ririal said:
I think you misunderstood what he's saying. In the real world, you could be standing next to someone else using an AT&T phone, so that interference isn't unexpected. How the device handles that kind of interference is absolutely relevant information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the real world, he probably isn't running a speedtest right when you are.
It's still pointless as if you are trying to compare device speeds on the network, you need to give them ideal conditions....otherwise you aren't comparing the devices really. This is obvious because it isn't showing the Atrix's crippled network interface.
zephxiii said:
In the real world, he probably isn't running a speedtest right when you are.
It's still pointless as if you are trying to compare device speeds on the network, you need to give them ideal conditions....otherwise you aren't comparing the devices really. This is obvious because it isn't showing the Atrix's crippled network interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not even sure I understand what you're arguing. Someone next to you is not using a data connection if they're not running a speedtest? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. The speed of the phone next to you is irrelevant. A phone pulling down 1000Mbps as opposed to 100Mbps won't magically decrease the surrounding signal. In modern devices, channel interference like that isn't really a problem anyway.
Ririal said:
I'm not even sure I understand what you're arguing. Someone next to you is not using a data connection if they're not running a speedtest? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. The speed of the phone next to you is irrelevant. A phone pulling down 1000Mbps as opposed to 100Mbps won't magically decrease the surrounding signal. In modern devices, channel interference like that isn't really a problem anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on that statement, it looks like you really don't understand how WCDMA (or CDMA based) networks work. Channel noise, noise floor, neighboring interference etc. plays a huge part in network performance. So yes, even though signal receive strength may be very good, performance can suffer from channel noise...and I see it all the time in cell overlap areas (I live in one even).
And when you have two devices like that operating right next to each other using the same ARFCN, especially if one is in the upload portion of the test, it's going to create additional noise that the other device is going to have to fight through....then throw on top that both devices are fighting for whatever is left of free resources on the site..which is basically cutting whatever is left in half....if they are on the same sector/channel.
zephxiii said:
Based on that statement, it looks like you really don't understand how WCDMA (or CDMA based) networks work. Channel noise, noise floor, neighboring interference etc. plays a huge part in network performance. So yes, even though signal receive strength may be very good, performance can suffer from channel noise...and I see it all the time in cell overlap areas (I live in one even).
And when you have two devices like that operating right next to each other using the same ARFCN, especially if one is in the upload portion of the test, it's going to create additional noise that the other device is going to have to fight through....then throw on top that both devices are fighting for whatever is left of free resources on the site..which is basically cutting whatever is left in half....if they are on the same sector/channel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the theory, I've just never seen it affect a device in practice to any noticeable degree. I might get 3.15 down with no other devices nearby, and 3.14 down with several others running at once (GSM and CDMA devices).
Living in an area with several carriers fighting for the airways can impact performance, but again, I've never seen a big enough difference to care. Maybe you've just been in areas with outdated hardware or poor filtering. This is all from personal experience, however, and I live in Chicagoland where there is no shortage of service from any carrier.
I know some have said that having all 3 devices and running the test can affect the performances when running data. I was hoping to try to run a test that could show what would happen if you were out and happen to be close to other smartphones that might be accessing data.
I will post another video showing how the data performance is, by running the speed test one at a time. I did try that today, and I can say that whether I had all three running at the same time or run speed test one at a time, the speeds didn't not change much; maybe only .04 difference. So having all three running the speed test would only affect around .04 to .06 difference in download speed.
I will also do a test to compare the speed to open browser and going to websites.
Also when I was doing the speed test today with my Atrix, I was using it as a mobile hot spot to provide internet to my Samsung Galaxy Tab, and the download speeds on the Atrix was very good. I got around 3.0 Mbps down and .29 Mbps upload; which is very slow compared to my iPhone 4. Hopefully soon this will be fixed.
So in real world situations if others around me are using their phones/data I shouldn't judge how my phone performs based on that? Individual testing is fantastic, but I'm rarely the only person in the room with an AT&T smartphone so it's not practical. Everyday use throughout the day (speedtest app or not) is the only real way to judge data performance in my book.
Besides, the speedtest app can go from 1.2 to 3.4 to .08mbps in 3 consecutive tests. It's all over the place.
For browsing the Atrix should open pages quicker because the processor will help out along with the network speeds.
Related
For starters i love this phones hardware. Almost all of the hardware specs of this phone are excellent. The 1ghz CPU by qualcom is a very good choice, but not quite a bleeding edge chip. Having a dedicated gpu would have been a better choice for the resolution and processing requirements of the other parts of the phone (gpu's can accelerate alot more than games).
512MB ram is a good choice and certainly enough for most needs. However ram is super duper cheap these days and i'd much rather have 1gb of good system ram than 1gb of extra storage space(which is what the evo gives us). the 4.3 inch screen is certainly sufficient, and in this space i dont think there really are much better panels resolution and aperture wise available.
I have certainly enjoyed playing with the 8MP camera in video and snapshot mode, but it also has its flaws. Being very sensitive to light the framerate (in video mode) can go from whats looks like(because i have no way of actually checking) lower 20's to less than 10 frames per second. Also while the 8MP sensor allows for nifty resolution it does not make for the cleanest image(in both video and snapshot mode). Due to lower quality optics being used and very little logic. I've found that flash also seems not to fire in correct sync with the (non mechanical IE FAKE)shutter of the camera sensor. Causing blurred images even with the flash on, I even attempted to circumvent this problem by manually setting the iso mode in the camera options to no avail. Also i really love the back facing camera and i would love it if i could actually use it for something.
I dont like fring its ugly and buggy, i dont like QIK. I dont know what it is, i just know i wont like it(J/K). It honestly never even occured to me that skype was not available for android yet (dont even mention that verizon peice of garbage). And it looks like we get it either until the end of the year. If even then (for video). I have had some opportunity to try out video on evo. And while some videos look good they are often not the right ratio and leave the screen largely empty. Some videos had obvious framerate & sound sync issues. Even on youtube. Let me go ahead and say i have not even played with HDMI, fm radio, or bluetooth. None of these do i really use, However i do like lots of extras and you cant go wrong with any of those. I tried only a few games out primarily raging thunder 2. I was not impressed by this games performance in the slightest. I would expect a 1ghz phone to be able to outperform atleast a Nintendo DS. I believe this part calls for a facepalm. I believe im supposed to thank HTC and their infinite wisdom for the 30FPS cap on the phone.
As for the 4G. I live in north dallas inbetween several major urban area in small residential housing area. Before signing up for my evo one quick trip to the sprint website and a little bit of address information would have me believe that im lit up like a christmas tree for miles all directions with 4G connectivity. Only after purchasing and bringing the phone home to realize i have no 4g connectivity at all do i back to the sprint website and go back to my coverage map. Yup see there i am all green, oh wait what is that? when i zoom in all the sudden the maps starts looking like swiss cheese. As i zoom all the way down my exact house do i see im not covered at all. Upon further testing i found that many areas that say they have 4G do not infact have 4G at all. After finding a 4G tower less than a mile away from my home. I drive to the tower to test my phones capability. Speedtest avarage download being 4300kbps or 430Kilobytes per second or about 4mbps. And upload averaging almost exactly 1000kbps or 100 Kilobytes per second or 1mbps. Well bellow the stated peak limit of 10mbps for downloads, and 1.8mbps peak of uploads. Mind you im sitting right beside this tower. I get much further from my home wifi. As i start driving, toward my house. I lose coverage in less than half a mile. Upon further consideration of this 4G technology i dont think its ever gonna work(right). I cant imagine them putting up enough towers to blanket a city yet alone suburbs or rural. There just is'nt enough real estate. I want to love this device, however this phone needs alot of love, and up against the onslaught on new phones just over the horizon, it needs it quick. Otherwise this could easily end up a dead end long before it ever reachs maturity. I have only owned my phone for 10 days. I will return it(if major upgrades dont happen soon) and go back to a peice of crap metroPCS phone for another six months while i wait for either this phone to get its act together or jump on one of the new LTE phones from the competition. Also i'd like to ask, what would you guys prefer a new single network connection combining all voice and data functions like the new LTE network verizon/metropcs is designing with possibly less bandwidth or a multiple network IE seperate voice and data connections with possibly more bandiwidth. Please consider all the known implications before replying. Lets keep this critiquing unbiased as possible please. If theres anything major please feel free to let me know.
And all i wanted was video conferencing.
Metathias
How did you locate the 4g tower closest to you?
notmike said:
How did you locate the 4g tower closest to you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I drove around till i got 4g signal Then meandered my way around following signal strength til i could see it. Never got full bars for 4g until i had line of sight. It was a big tower too. Still only covered about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile.
4g upload is capped at 1mb
where is the map you can zoom on? can't seem to find it.
supdawg said:
4g upload is capped at 1mb
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Click to collapse
Where does it say that? Mine is 1.3-1.6 normally
I can't believe I read...
that entire message. I must be off to wash my eyes!
Don't post stuff like this without an industry source. As far as I know, this is not true. I often get 1.7 in downtown Chicago.
supdawg said:
4g upload is capped at 1mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Read it.
GumboChief said:
Don't post stuff like this without an industry source. As far as I know, this is not true. I often get 1.7 in downtown Chicago.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's been mentioned by Sprint, Most Blog Sites, and Many other People. It has been shown on upload tests through SpeedTest, DSLReports, etc that its capped at 1MB or very close to it.
Please provide a screen shot of 1.7Mb/s upload as I have not seen that either and I have fast 4G where I live.
Here is from the developers site about cap.
http://developer.sprint.com/site/global/home/4g/wimax_experience/wimax_experience.jsp
Next time I am on Michigan & Randolph, I will run a test. I dont have it in my current log as I blanked my phone last week for whitslack rom.
mrmomoman said:
It's been mentioned by Sprint, Most Blog Sites, and Many other People. It has been shown on upload tests through SpeedTest, DSLReports, etc that its capped at 1MB or very close to it.
Please provide a screen shot of 1.7Mb/s upload as I have not seen that either and I have fast 4G where I live.
Here is from the developers site about cap.
http://developer.sprint.com/site/global/home/4g/wimax_experience/wimax_experience.jsp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those getting > 1mb, that may change in the future. I know 4G is capped at 1mb here.
supdawg said:
For those getting > 1mb, that may change in the future. I know 4G is capped at 1mb here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My speedtest was on June 17th, when going to see my eye doctor. I am really curious to check, now.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
For anyone who cares to light a fire under Sprint's feet in a very, very public forum that's all but certain to get the attention of Sprint's upper management, check out one of today's lead stories on Slashdot: http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10...nt-Epic4G-3G-Upload-Speeds-Limited-To-150kbps
In some really high signal areas I'm able to go up to 175-180 kbps. This leads me to believe there is no software cap on the phone. The modem driver is just so poorly written. It takes up too many resources and slows down my phone when running Speed Test.
Good. I have a feeling the only hope we have of Sprint or Samsung addressing this issue is for there to be enough public outcry.
arashed31 said:
In some really high signal areas I'm able to go up to 175-180 kbps. This leads me to believe there is no software cap on the phone. The modem driver is just so poorly written. It takes up too many resources and slows down my phone when running Speed Test.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can tell the phone is TRYING to hit speeds higher than that... but there is a cap limiting it. No matter how fast your download is, the upload always maxes at an AVERAGE of 150.
I'm amazed by how dumb a lot of the commenters on slashdot are. They seem to think that 150 KBits/sec = 150KB/sec...
(Search feature is down but I don't remember seeing anything about this)
It seems like the wifi signal is really weak on my Nexus S (stock, MoDaCo rX, and Cyanogen alpha). The only time I get full bars is if stand right in front of the router. Sometimes it will drop a bar or two even when I am in the same room as the router.
I'm out of the country at the moment and unable to test it with my network at home to compare performance to the N1 or MT4G I used to have. Can I get some feedback from other users about their wifi strength? I might have to find a way to return/exchange the phone from here before the end of the remorse period if it's a problem unique to my device.
c_licious said:
(Search feature is down but I don't remember seeing anything about this)
It seems like the wifi signal is really weak on my Nexus S (stock, MoDaCo rX, and Cyanogen alpha). The only time I get full bars is if stand right in front of the router. Sometimes it will drop a bar or two even when I am in the same room as the router.
I'm out of the country at the moment and unable to test it with my network at home to compare performance to the N1 or MT4G I used to have. Can I get some feedback from other users about their wifi strength? I might have to find a way to return/exchange the phone from here before the end of the remorse period if it's a problem unique to my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually have it listed as a known issue in the FAQ after seeing an article pop up from Androidcentral.com shortly after launch.
But, yes, I can confirm this. I'm literally sitting right next to my router and have a full three bars. If I move to the couch, it'll switch between 2-3 and if I go into my bedroom, it'll do it from 1-2. I'm in a relatively small apartment, btw lol.
Interestingly enough, while the graphic displays a weaker signal and testing from market apps does indeed show a weaker signal, I don't really notice much in the way of speed loss or instability.
Yap, same here.
If i go to about 30 ft away, i'm done...no wifi!
unremarked said:
Actually have it listed as a known issue in the FAQ after seeing an article pop up from Androidcentral.com shortly after launch.
But, yes, I can confirm this. I'm literally sitting right next to my router and have a full three bars. If I move to the couch, it'll switch between 2-3 and if I go into my bedroom, it'll do it from 1-2. I'm in a relatively small apartment, btw lol.
Interestingly enough, while the graphic displays a weaker signal and testing from market apps does indeed show a weaker signal, I don't really notice much in the way of speed loss or instability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, just read your thread (slapping myself on the wrist for posting too soon). Unfortunately, it does seem to cause some instability for me as it occasionally disconnects completely due to the low signal.
Do you think this is the same for all devices and has just gone unnoticed for those who don't heavily rely on wifi. Or would an exchange be my best option at this point? Not sure how much of a hardware vs software fix this would be...
No issues here. The reception isn't great, but it's a phone. Small WiFi card. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I feel like 30-50 feet through the walls and/or floors of a house/apartment is pretty reasonable for a device like this. Of course, as always, the more obstacles (physical barriers and electronic interference) the signal has to go through to get to your phone, the worse the reception will be at any given distance, so there are a lot of potential influencing factors.
zorak950 said:
No issues here. The reception isn't great, but it's a phone. Small WiFi card. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I feel like 30-50 feet through the walls and/or floors of a house/apartment is pretty reasonable for a device like this. Of course, as always, the more obstacles (physical barriers and electronic interference) the signal has to go through to get to your phone, the worse the reception will be at any given distance, so there are a lot of potential influencing factors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why it's such a handicap not being able to test it on my home network at the moment where I could compare it to my experience with my previous android devices.
alot of routers no longer have external antennas reducing the possible range. just an idea but who knows
c_licious said:
Yea, just read your thread (slapping myself on the wrist for posting too soon). Unfortunately, it does seem to cause some instability for me as it occasionally disconnects completely due to the low signal.
Do you think this is the same for all devices and has just gone unnoticed for those who don't heavily rely on wifi. Or would an exchange be my best option at this point?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure either way, actually. It may be something that can be fixed with a software update or tweak considering that the Nexus One(which has a noticable stronger signal) and the Nexus S seem to be pretty close in model number(BCM4329EKU86 Nexus One vs BCM4329GKUBG Nexus S).
I couldn't find a tear down that detailed the WiFi chip found in the Galaxy S devices which would be more useful for a comparison. So, I guess, my point is that it may be something a relevantly unnoticed flaw in the device itself and exchanging it might not do anything.
I guess this is our trade off for a working GPS unit?
I dont think its based off of root, i'm on stock, and the same thing happens to me!!
The Nexus S uses a low power wifi chip, which is thought to be the cause of this (VERY well known) weak wifi reception issue. Google "Nexus S weak wifi".
You can verify it easily by running a wifi sniffer (e.g. "Wifi Analyzer" from the market). The NS's reception drops quickly with distance from router. This isn't the router's fault.
ravidavi said:
The Nexus S uses a low power wifi chip, which is thought to be the cause of this (VERY well known) weak wifi reception issue. Google "Nexus S weak wifi".
You can verify it easily by running a wifi sniffer (e.g. "Wifi Analyzer" from the market). The NS's reception drops quickly with distance from router. This isn't the router's fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely isnt the routers fault. I have two MTS, my original G1 and N1, Two Laptops a PS3 and a PSP.
This is the only device that struggles to find a signal.
jspookss said:
Definitely isnt the routers fault. I have two MTS, my original G1 and N1, Two Laptops a PS3 and a PSP.
This is the only device that struggles to find a signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a former G1 guy myself, it had a very strong signal, Nexus S not so much. It is making me a bit irritated. It is an important feature sine I prefer to use wifi instead of 3G. It's much faster.
I have the same issue. When I turn on wifi the status icon takes about 20 seconds to turn from grey to green and on top of that even in the same room I don't get full bars. This really blows.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
My GN3 is the best phone I've ever owned. It does everything I want except what it was originally built to do. I have the absolute worst service. If i flashed a new ROM would that improve the service? I know it did for my RAZR. Also the WIFI goes in and out constantly. Could a new ROM change that also? Any responses or recommendations would be great!
Thanks
BroadSword
The answer to your question sort of depends on info you didn't provide.
What I mean by that is that radio software NEVER changes raw RF signal strength.
Yeah, that's right - never. That is entirely a hardware/antenna thing.
It *can* change things that happen at the radio protocol level - things like tower selection, power output, modulation and coding selection, etc. And I suppose if there are bugs that cause intermittency, those could be due to software/firmware. So you need to distinguish between three different scenarios: (a) problems due simply to poor signal strength, (b) problems that happen even when the signal is strong, or (c) never observing strong signals even when in close proximity to the cell tower or WiFi router**
So... What are the signal strengths you observe (either cell or WiFi) when you have troubles? Report the values in "dBm", not "Signal Bars" - the latter means literally nothing.
And if you observe problems at -90 dBm, there might be nothing wrong with your device (there is very little "fade margin" above the noise floor and all devices will have problems due to weak signals). But if you see problems such as drop-outs when the signal strength is above (more positive) than -70 dBm, that could be either a hardware fault or a software bug.
If you never see signals above -75 dBm (Cell) or -45 dBm (WiFi in close proximity to the router), then you probably have a hardware problem and a ROM update won't change that.
So - your turn. What signal strengths are you seeing?
PS - on my Note3, the Cell signal strength reported in the Android settings app never seems to change so I conclude it isn't working (MJ7 ROM); I use the "RF Signal Tracker" app (Ken Hunt) for that. You can even drive around town and it will later plot on a map the observed signal strength values. That can be useful for determining if you just have weak signals at your home, or if they are weak everywhere. If you see the latter, you know you have a hardware problem.
Perversely, this app doesn't correctly report WiFi signal strengths on the N3 (it works OK on other Android devices I have); but you can use the "WiFi Analyzer" app (farproc) to observe WiFi signals in dBm.
FWIW, my Note 3 observes signals as strong as -35 dBm (1m from the router), and -51 dBm LTE (cell). It is possible that by driving around I might see even stronger cell signals; I haven't tried it yet in the 7 days I've had the N3.
HTH
** note that you could have problems with cell service/mobile data only, WiFi only, or problems with both if you are unlucky (they use separate radios and antennas).
I'm having issues as well. Never had a problem with the Note 2 , but the 3 likes to constantly drop out of 4G at home. It's odd because I've tested it against my old Droid Razr and they both get around the same signal (-106 dBm vs -105 dBm), however the Razr reliably holds the 4G signal and keeps a fairly consistent dBm reading, whereas the GN3 readings can get worse from time to time even in the same spot. I'm hoping it's software related and they'll fix it with a modem update... MJE didn't help me at all though.
Not to mention the poor battery life due to a low signal. I was very fortunate they turned on Band 4, otherwise I be looking at the same battery life I was getting with my iphone 5 around 6 to 12 hours.
I love my note 3, but the signal quality has me rethinking my decision to keep it.
@bodieism
Your principal trouble is very poor signal. (-105 dBm)
I mean, I get it that individuals aren't going move in order to improve their cell service, and the carrier is unlikely to install a new tower because of a single customer request about poor signal strength.
That only leaves a presumption that handset choice is a consumer option to "fix" a poor signal. (Or repeaters, but that's an expensive solution).
But I would caution that trying to make comparisons of "A vs. B" in areas with terrible reception is fraught with all sorts of methodology and interpretation problems. I can observe > 10 dBm signal strength changes due to orientation and "How I'm holding it" (LOL) changes alone while sitting in one spot on my couch. Imagine that I had an average signal level only 5 dBm above the noise floor - you shouldn't believe a handset comparison I made in that case unless I made it clear that I'd been exhaustive about test conditions.
Simply put, I wouldn't put much stock in undisciplined, anecdotal reports that come from fringe reception areas.
As you noted, the MJE update did nothing for you. But that's not a surprise - no amount of software is going to overcome lack of signal.
Maybe a complaint to Verizon might result in something measurable happening - squeaky wheel and all that. But you will be unlikely to get anything from them if you live in a rural or low population density area.
Any idea what this is saying. Looks like I'm connected to a tower that is over 6,000 miles away
Take a sec and hit thanks if I helped or if you're in a good mood!
bskarpa said:
Any idea what this is saying. Looks like I'm connected to a tower that is over 6,000 miles away
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That app doesn't have a complete tower database, so it just picks the geolocation info seemingly at random (or maybe one per continent). I don't think I have ever seen that app feature work for VZW towers; it might work for GSM networks tho.
I think it relies on public (crowd sourced) data for tower geolocation info, so that particular feature is probably only useful in metro areas and maybe not even then.
bftb0 said:
That app doesn't have a complete tower database, so it just picks the geolocation info seemingly at random (or maybe one per continent). I don't think I have ever seen that app feature work for VZW towers; it might work for GSM networks tho.
I think it relies on public (crowd sourced) data for tower geolocation info, so that particular feature so it is probably only useful in metro areas and maybe not even then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK thanks bud. I know here around town by my daughter's school which is only like a mile or less away from my house I get awesome signal but here at the house its around -75db give or take.
I looked on the net to see what towers were around and it came back as (see the attachment) which is pretty interesting.
Take a sec and hit thanks if I helped or if you're in a good mood!
@bskarpa what Internet site did you use? (-75 dBm is a pretty decent signal btw)
That app says my tower is 6224 miles away in Croatia. Apparently tower numbers are not globally unique (as that record matches the observed tower # I have for my service)
bftb0 said:
As you noted, the MJE update did nothing for you. But that's not a surprise - no amount of software is going to overcome lack of signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Droid Razr, Note 2, and my GF's S3 all overcome the lack of signal with no problem at all. You'd think since Samsung can make 2 devices that can maintain a weak 4G signal that their newest phone could do the same, but apparently it can't, whether it be hardware or software related.
bftb0 said:
@bskarpa what Internet site did you use? (-75 dBm is a pretty decent signal btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.antennasearch.com/
Take a sec and hit thanks if I helped or if you're in a good mood!
bodieism said:
My Droid Razr, Note 2, and my GF's S3 all overcome the lack of signal with no problem at all. You'd think since Samsung can make 2 devices that can maintain a weak 4G signal that their newest phone could do the same, but apparently it can't, whether it be hardware or software related.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't doubt at all that your description of your experience(s) are anything but truthful.
And I don't doubt that some handsets are better than others when it comes to raw RF signal strength. For instance, (older gear) the Samsung Galaxy Fascinate had simply horrid GPS reception at a time when handsets and GPS receivers from other OEM vendors (and far less expensive devices, I might add) were perfectly fine. You couldn't get a reliable lock inside a vehicle, and you could barely get one with a completely clear sky to the horizon in 360 degrees.
The thing is, Samsung isn't making the radio silicon nor the radio firmware; so in the case of the Note 3, if there is a different vendor using the same Qualcomm MSM8974/S800 SOC with better reception, that would probably imply that Samsung sucks at understanding antenna modeling or RF interconnect modeling... or they just don't care enough in their rush to get their devices to market.
The other thing to consider is that the decision space that a handset needs to operate in is pretty complicated, as there are both 4G and 3G bands available, variable block resource allocations, variable coding & modulation schemes, etc, and the ability to switch between them in agile fashion might mean that there is a lot of stuff going on thousands of times per second - while the little idiot light in the notification bar probably only gets updated on the order of once a second. I suppose it is feasible that in fringe LTE reception areas it might even be possible that reversion to 3G produces better bandwidth in some situations (neither LTE nor EVDO are "all-or-nothing" affairs when it comes to bandwidth). If that were indeed the case, the fact that "4G" didn't show up on the device's notification bar might not mean too much.
In any event, a better comparative measure of handset performance would be actual data transfer rates measured at the same (weak signal) locations throughout different times of the day (to avoid confusing a transient cell congestion or interference issue as being the fault of a specific handset being tested). Then we'd be looking at what is really important to folks in that situation - actual bandwidth achieved instead of an indicator light status. I think that would be pretty diagnostic.
cheers
bftb0 said:
The other thing to consider is that the decision space that a handset needs to operate in is pretty complicated, as there are both 4G and 3G bands available, variable block resource allocations, variable coding & modulation schemes, etc, and the ability to switch between them in agile fashion might mean that there is a lot of stuff going on thousands of times per second - while the little idiot light in the notification bar probably only gets updated on the order of once a second. I suppose it is feasible that in fringe LTE reception areas it might even be possible that reversion to 3G produces better bandwidth in some situations (neither LTE nor EVDO are "all-or-nothing" affairs when it comes to bandwidth). If that were indeed the case, the fact that "4G" didn't show up on the device's notification bar might not mean too much.
In any event, a better comparative measure of handset performance would be actual data transfer rates measured at the same (weak signal) locations throughout different times of the day (to avoid confusing a transient cell congestion or interference issue as being the fault of a specific handset being tested). Then we'd be looking at what is really important to folks in that situation - actual bandwidth achieved instead of an indicator light status. I think that would be pretty diagnostic.
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It's not really necessary. I've never had issues with the speed while the phone is in 4G at home. The problem comes from it constantly wanting to drop to 3G. The quality of my Netflix shows dropping is one of the things that tips me off to having been bumped to 3G. Lately I've been putting my sim card into the Razr while I'm home and turning on the wifi hotspot. That way I can just use wifi on the Note 3 to avoid the annoying 3G bumps and subsequent crappy Netflix resolution. While I suppose I could go through the trouble of testing the different handset speeds in the same location at different times of the day, I have a suspicion that the download speeds will be similar if they both happen to be in 4G during the test. In fact, I wouldn't even be surprised if the Note 3 is faster while in 4G.
You can chalk it up to any reason you want, but in any event, my Note 3 can't hold onto a weak 4G signal anywhere near as good as any of my previous phones.
bftb0 said:
@bskarpa what Internet site did you use? (-75 dBm is a pretty decent signal btw)
That app says my tower is 6224 miles away in Croatia. Apparently tower numbers are not globally unique (as that record matches the observed tower # I have for my service)
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The one in my screen shot is www.antennasearch.com, sorry so late, I just now saw this.
http://anandtech.com/show/10081/wifi-testing-with-ixia-wavedevice/4
Anandtech just got a really fancy, manufacturer-grade WiFi testing setup and did some initial testing with the iPad Pro and the Pixel C.
In the case of the iPad Pro and Pixel C, we found that WaveDevice was able to show a number of notable interesting data points from both an end user perspective and an engineering perspective. With the rate vs range test, it was possible to clearly see how well a device would perform in response to worsening reception from a user experience perspective. From an engineering perspective, it was possible to identify the root cause for the Google Pixel C’s poor Wi-Fi performance by using WaveAnalyze and an RF analysis blade in WaveDevice. While determining the root cause is still beyond what we can do with limited information on the hardware, an OEM would be able to act on the information provided by WaveDevice to improve their product before it reaches mass production.
In addition to the rate vs range test, the roaming latency test was quite illuminating. While root cause analysis is more difficult and best left to actual engineers, it’s quite obvious that the iPad Pro passed this test with flying colors while the Pixel C shows some serious deficiencies. If you regularly encounter large Wi-Fi networks with multiple access points all under a single SSID/name like eduroam, it’s obvious that the Pixel C will be an exercise in frustration if you’re hoping to keep a working Wi-Fi connection on the move. Even when the device roams successfully, the time that the device spends moving from one access point to the next is long enough on average to result in noticeable connection interruptions. When it doesn’t roam successfully, it seems to get stuck on a single access point and basically drops off the network entirely without manual intervention or has to re-authenticate and acquire a new IP address, which is guaranteed to cause most traffic to be dropped.
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In a nutshell, we might need to file a class action lawsuit.
I'm not very technically minded, so just wondering in simple terms, does the article suggest this might be a hardware issue? Something that can't be fixed with future software updates? Thx
aalin13 said:
I'm not very technically minded, so just wondering in simple terms, does the article suggest this might be a hardware issue? Something that can't be fixed with future software updates? Thx
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From the article:
It may be that we're looking at something like improper impedance matching somewhere in the system, amplifiers that are either poorly selected or poorly integrated, and/or a phase-locked loop somewhere that isn’t set up or designed properly for this task.
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Basically, they said they are not familiar enough with the hardware in the Pixel C to say if the problem is hardware or software related. Google probably knows, but good luck getting them to admit to anything.
oRAirwolf said:
Basically, they said they are not familiar enough with the hardware in the Pixel C to say if the problem is hardware or software related. Google probably knows, but good luck getting them to admit to anything.
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Thanks, so there is still hope. This wifi concern is the only thing holding me back from buying one right now, my Nexus 10 has started to have issues with random reboot and extremely slow charging (20 hours to go from 20% to 100%), so I'm thinking of buying a Pixel C as a replacement
aalin13 said:
Thanks, so there is still hope. This wifi concern is the only thing holding me back from buying one right now, my Nexus 10 has started to have issues with random reboot and extremely slow charging (20 hours to go from 20% to 100%), so I'm thinking of buying a Pixel C as a replacement
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For the record, I have absolutely no problems with WiFi with my Pixel C. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with a highly saturated WiFi environment. I think the WiFi is unquestionably bad, but my usage scenario generally revolves around reading the news while pooping and watching media in airports/airplanes. In my scenario, none of the problems have even remotely affected me.
oRAirwolf said:
For the record, I have absolutely no problems with WiFi with my Pixel C. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with a highly saturated WiFi environment. I think the WiFi is unquestionably bad, but my usage scenario generally revolves around reading the news while pooping and watching media in airports/airplanes. In my scenario, none of the problems have even remotely affected me.
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Haha, sounds like how I use my tablet as well, and I also live in an apartment with saturated WiFi. Guess I can always buy it and return it if the WiFi is an issue. When you say WiFi is unquestionably bad, do you mean that it is slower and has weaker signal than other devices? Given that my home internet is still on DSL, I think I might not even notice the difference in WiFi speed
aalin13 said:
Haha, sounds like how I use my tablet as well, and I also live in an apartment with saturated WiFi. Guess I can always buy it and return it if the WiFi is an issue. When you say WiFi is unquestionably bad, do you mean that it is slower and has weaker signal than other devices? Given that my home internet is still on DSL, I think I might not even notice the difference in WiFi speed
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I just mean that the problems are widely reported and backed by the test data in that article. I have never had any noticeable issues myself, though.
No surprise here.
IPad Pro is a $1000+ real product with the full forces of Apple R&D, manufacturing and Q&A behind it.
Pixel C is more like a prototype made by a small team inside a big company whose core business isn't to build and sell devices.
It's borderline silly to compare these 2 without comparing the budgets, the staff and the marketing/sales "intentions".
That's been said there is no doubt the Pixel C has room for wifi optimizations but then is this really necessary ? it's not meant to be widely sold at a huge scale. Its purpose is not to have the best wifi possible. I'd rather have Google staff working on next gen Android & Chrome OS features for the Pixel C rather than wasting their time fine tuning & optimizing its wifi...
People should stop considering the Pixel C as a real product. It's more like a dev kit / prototype / experimentation device. Not a real device that you can find in a shop next door like an IPad or a Samsung tablet. It's meant for Googlers to work on new features, for 3rd party apps devs to prepare their next gen apps and for tech enthusiasts to preview stuff.
So, in that context, thinking about a class action is just plain silly.
No problems at all with WiFi. How can ortople be sure it's not an external factor at play? I wouldn't trust Anandtech. They take bribes from anyone with deep edbough pockets. No better than paid for survey companies.
Until they post an ethics and gifting policy, you should disregard anything they have to say.
What exactly is the wifi issue? I got a Pixel C recently, knowing about the issue roughly; but I've never had any issues. I just ran a Speedtest connected to a 5Ghz network and pulled down 106Mbps (down) and 25Mbps (up); this is about the same I get on a wired connection (actually better on average, for some reason).
i've had absolutely no issues, either, but i also have a device from the newer batch (612300) and i'm running n. it actually works better than my nexus 10 in some cases, though i have yet to test it in an area with saturated wifi.
CrazyPeter said:
I wouldn't trust Anandtech. They take bribes from anyone with deep edbough pockets. No better than paid for survey companies.
Until they post an ethics and gifting policy, you should disregard anything they have to say.
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I am not saying you are wrong, but I have never seen anything to give me the impression that their objective testing is skewed in any way. They clearly have subjective opinions about products and it is no secret they tend to lean towards iOS devices. That being said, they generally have, by far, the most thorough, quantifiable testing and results of any mobile device review site.
Do you have any sources or examples to back up your claims? I would definitely like to know, as I do consider them to be a trusted source for thorough, numbers based, and high level reviews. I tend to leave the subjective opinions up to myself, though.
Proved my deep suspicions from Day 1 and yes there is absolutely ground for a class action here since this product is being sold as the Android tablet , not an experimental product with a disclaimer that core features like wifi may be seriously broken.
undertaker2k14 said:
Proved my deep suspicions from Day 1 and yes there is absolutely ground for a class action here since this product is being sold as the Android tablet , not an experimental product with a disclaimer that core features like wifi may be seriously broken.
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ROFL so what's a class action gonna do? Get you like $300 cash or $500 of Google play, after 3-4 years.
If you don't want the tablet, sell it, and give it someone who wants it
May be nudge Google's hardware team towards better QAand something is always better than nothing.
No issues with wifi, either using my home router or tethering. So I don't know what the issue is as a practical matter.
Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk
I would be interested to know what scenario people are reporting good Wi-Fi performance in. I know that my c definitely has a problem as soon as the Wi-Fi signal drops below -75dB. This happens when trying to use when in the garden. The main issue is that it drops the connection and refuses to connect to it again without the Wi-Fi being switched on & off. It reminds me of the behaviour that I used to get with the 'don't connect to connecting with poor Wi-Fi signal' - except that -75dB isn't really a low signal. All my other android devices (oneplus 2, hudl2 & Nexus 5) all give reliable performance at the same distance (20m).
boboskins said:
I would be interested to know what scenario people are reporting good Wi-Fi performance in. I know that my c definitely has a problem as soon as the Wi-Fi signal drops below -75dB. This happens when trying to use when in the garden. The main issue is that it drops the connection and refuses to connect to it again without the Wi-Fi being switched on & off. It reminds me of the behaviour that I used to get with the 'don't connect to connecting with poor Wi-Fi signal' - except that -75dB isn't really a low signal. All my other android devices (oneplus 2, hudl2 & Nexus 5) all give reliable performance at the same distance (20m).
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Only had this tablet a week but I have had no Wifi issues and I live in an apartment with metal studs that cause problems for many of my other devices. As a matter of fact I write this sitting in a garden with a -80db signal. I am on N so that may (I hope) have something to do with my lack of wifi issues.
here is a comparsion of my Pixel vs my phone 10 feet from the router. My phone saturates my link, while the pixel comes up 100mbps short. It is still fast enough...but at further ranges it gets worse fast.
https://goo.gl/photos/NdC3KG4186xuifDW6
oRAirwolf said:
For the record, I have absolutely no problems with WiFi with my Pixel C. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with a highly saturated WiFi environment. I think the WiFi is unquestionably bad, but my usage scenario generally revolves around reading the news while pooping and watching media in airports/airplanes. In my scenario, none of the problems have even remotely affected me.
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Same here, I live in a tiny, packed city (1.3 square miles, about 50k people) across the river from NYC and I have easily 15-20 WAPs showing up on any wifi device and while I did have wifi problems, turns out it was my sh!tty verizon router and the overly packed 2.4 GHz band. Once I got an AC router and hopped on the 5 GHz band I've had no problems at all!
natezire71 said:
What exactly is the wifi issue? I got a Pixel C recently, knowing about the issue roughly; but I've never had any issues. I just ran a Speedtest connected to a 5Ghz network and pulled down 106Mbps (down) and 25Mbps (up); this is about the same I get on a wired connection (actually better on average, for some reason).
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I've only seen problems connecting with very poor wifi signals. The only time I ever really had problems connecting was in a hotel where it would see the WAP, try to connect and then fail, even with the "only connect to strong WAPs" option turned off. I have no problems at my apartment or at my parent's house.
undertaker2k14 said:
Proved my deep suspicions from Day 1 and yes there is absolutely ground for a class action here since this product is being sold as the Android tablet , not an experimental product with a disclaimer that core features like wifi may be seriously broken.
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I'm sorry but people like you are the reason why we need labels on everything warning someone about every possible thing that could happen, just so they can cover their a$$es in case some idiot attempts to sue for something ridiculous (e.g. a warning on a jar of peanuts that says "warning: contains peanuts!"....yes, Planter's peanuts actually has that warning on the jar lol). I think you're using a bit of hyperbole there, the wifi is not "seriously broken" because it obviously works fine for most people, including myself and it seems like largely a software issue since Cheep5k8 has largely fixed most of the issues with his kernel. There's probably not even a large enough amount of people that even on the Pixel C, I wouldn't doubt that less than 50k have it. It's a pretty expensive device that wasn't really marketed at all, not many people outside of Android/Tech geeks know about it.
beardymcgee said:
ROFL so what's a class action gonna do? Get you like $300 cash or $500 of Google play, after 3-4 years. If you don't want the tablet, sell it, and give it someone who wants it
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More like $3.00 or $4.00 :laugh: Have you even been involved in a class action lawsuit? I've gotten the emails before that says I could claim a payment if I wanted to but the payouts are hysterically laughably low, I think for the Amazon e-book price fixing scandal, I could claim about 10-30 cents because I bought like 5 books from them over the course of a few years. I think the biggest payout I've ever received was a few bucks and that maybe have been on a few hundred dollar purchase, hell even class action lawsuits on cars that cost $30k+ receive payouts of maybe a few hundred dollars hahahaha Instead of selling it and getting something that works better he'd rather keep the tablet then ***** and complain about how the wifi sucks and he deserves to be repaid for buying something with sub-par wifi