Database Users

The Moto G camera: noise reduction is the key

Here are some details I uncovered in regards to the camera of Moto G:
Camera specification:
- 5mpxl
- f/2.4
- 4mm focal length.
Most definitely a small sensor, (< 1/3.2' ), likely 1/4'. Also very likely won't have BSI for better low light performance.
Meanwhile there's no good teardown (yet) to find out the make of the camera module, by going through the spec sheets of many other phones, the sensor is likely to be same one you find in Lumia 625.
Most of you will probably agree that Moto G doesn't take good photos. Meanwhile the optic is the best it should be well capable of better.
Issue at the moment is that there's TOO MUCH noise reduction, which can cause a very 'water-paint' feel to the pictures, and destroying any form of sharpness.
From my test with stock and many other camera apps (Lenovo, focal, a better cam, etc etc), while they help with the compression, focus, white-balance and metering etc. and can help the quality of the photos. They don't fix the sharpness/noise reduction issue with the camera. It seems like it's been hard-coded into the software for the camera.
Are there anyone out there who will be able to fix this?

The Motorola camera app was updated today, has this improved the noise reduction?
Nuthin' but a 'Moto G' thang

cption said:
Are there anyone out there who will be able to fix this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google seems to be working on a completely overhauled Hardware Abstraction Layer for the cameras that will allow apps to tap more directly into the camera pipelines. They'll be able, for instance, to get RAW captures and and do their own custom demoisacing/debayering and the whole post- pipeline. That would probably fix any heavy-handed processing done by any of the OEMs.

AluKed said:
Google seems to be working on a completely overhauled Hardware Abstraction Layer for the cameras that will allow apps to tap more directly into the camera pipelines. They'll be able, for instance, to get RAW captures and and do their own custom demoisacing/debayering and the whole post- pipeline. That would probably fix any heavy-handed processing done by any of the OEMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RAW just gives an uncompressed image, there's no real guarantee that no processing takes place..
I'm going to report my findings on the new moto camera update. From the look of it it's just a routine, general update that shouldn't make much difference.

bien irleeno
cption said:
RAW just gives an uncompressed image, there's no real guarantee that no processing takes place..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really. RAW is much more than an uncompressed image, it's as close to the raw, unprocessed sensor output as possible. No demosaicing, no tone mapping/gamma, no conversion from (typically) 12 bits per pixel to 8 bits, no processing and no lossy compression. If any of this is done, then it isn't RAW.

For you which camera app is the best ?

el-marino said:
For you which camera app is the best ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
camera awesome is amazing and vignette its very good try with this app's u can get a better pic from stock cam

I think the original Android app takes better photos
The only problem with this app is the HDR
I installed the original app 4.2, 4.3 and 4.4, none of them has the HDR
Any way to solve this?

I've just installed snap camera, I have to say it is streets ahead of stock moto cam.
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

I wasn't able to post before/after comparison with the stock camera app as it updated itself. So far I'm not seeing any different image wise between the update.
I've done some comparison shots in between the cameras, and added in my Ativ S (GS3 WP8 alter-ego) as a bonus.
Snap Camera focus very well, and I was able to take good shots with my shaky hands. However, the blurring issue is very apparent with all camera apps..
N.B. The Focal photo was slightly blurred due to my shaky hands, sorry!

Just to clear it, you're talking about this paid app ?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.marginz.snap&hl=en

SlashGear have posted an article on the Camera software update released by Motorola.
This update does a tiny bit to improve all areas of shooting with manual controls, and shows sign that Motorola isn’t going to let this device fall by the wayside at all, whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[SlashGear]

lost101 said:
SlashGear have posted an article on the Camera software update released by Motorola.
[SlashGear]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno Slashgear articles seems iffy...
Moto G ALREADY had the Exposure/Focal Ring tbh, seems they didnt notice or use it in their original review. This exposure/focus ring is the basis of their camera comparison it seems.

I did not find options to manual focus and exposure.

Psychoferno said:
I did not find options to manual focus and exposure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's just the ring that you can drag around the screen to choose the point of focus and exposure. I'm sure that we (at least I did!) had this from the beginning on Moto G (maybe the X didn't and that's where the stories are coming from?) and the recent update was basically bug fixes for us.

Yes, the G Moto already had this function. Thanks for the clarification.

Kameo said:
Just to clear it, you're talking about this paid app ?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.marginz.snap&hl=en
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I just used the trial for the comparison.
Note that XDA compresses the image so it's very hard to tell from the photos I posted.
But the Moto-G is absolutely no match for the camera on my Ativ-S/GS3. Not sure if it will fair better if the noise reduction issues been fixed.
But Snap Camera seem to do the best job out of the apps I've tried, for my shaky hand of course. Not compared the HDR mode yet but stock camera do that quite well.

any comparison between s3?^

t-bon3 said:
The Motorola camera app was updated today, has this improved the noise reduction?
Nuthin' but a 'Moto G' thang
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Camera apps rarely make any significant difference in quality, unless they start passing different parameters/settings to the camera HAL.
Usually, if you see major changes in camera performance, it's HAL changes, which require a system firmware update.

Entropy512 said:
Usually, if you see major changes in camera performance, it's HAL changes, which require a system firmware update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm guessing that we'll get the Camera HAL v3 with Kit Kat 4.5. I mean, that's the kind of feature that would justify a version bump. Hopefully the hardware will be compliant enough that it won't have to run in the Limited Semantics mode.

Camera quality

Hi everyone, I've been reading around a bit about the Z2 camera and I'm finding some very conflicting opinions. GSMarena did a camera shootout not too long ago for which I'm pretty sure the Z2 came last or at least did horribly. (http://www.gsmarena.com/camera_shootout-review-1104.php) What makes this interesting is that DXOmark (http://www.dxomark.com/Phones/Sony-...ed-model-takes-first-place-in-Mobile-rankings) did a review on the Z2 camera and it scored quite highly. Am I missing something here? I don't think the stills are amazing to be honest and I mostly use superior auto. Is superior auto just garbage?

Camera has been improved with the new 4.4.4 Android update.Second of all,yes - Superior Auto is complete crap to be honest.The real deal is shooting in Manual Mode.So you need to play with the camera options abit to achieve the shot you want to see.Apart of that i don't beleave that the scores from dxomark are true.Sony has a crappy software (we all know that),so if u have time to shoot something - do it on manual. You will be surprised with the results.Use superior when u need to take a fast shot only.

effective said:
Camera has been improved with the new 4.4.4 Android update.Second of all,yes - Superior Auto is complete crap to be honest.The real deal is shooting in Manual Mode.So you need to play with the camera options abit to achieve the shot you want to see.Apart of that i don't beleave that the scores from dxomark are true.Sony has a crappy software (we all know that),so if u have time to shoot something - do it on manual. You will be surprised with the results.Use superior when u need to take a fast shot only.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi friend,
you tell that Sony has a crappy camera software... Its true but can we solve problem using another camera software and which software... ?
Maybe Google camera app or... What is your favorite camera app ?
Greetings from Serbia.

mimahitna said:
Hi friend,
you tell that Sony has a crappy camera software... Its true but can we solve problem using another camera software and which software... ?
Maybe Google camera app or... What is your favorite camera app ?
Greetings from Serbia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you can try by yourself and decide which one fits you the best..Personaly i use the stock app using Manual mode.Other good apps are Camera 51 , ProCapture camera , LGcamera. Try them and decide. Cheers :highfive:

effective said:
Well you can try by yourself and decide which one fits you the best..Personaly i use the stock app using Manual mode.Other good apps are Camera 51 , ProCapture camera , LGcamera. Try them and decide. Cheers :highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man.

I have to admit this the Z2 is horrible under use of Superiour Auto however manual mode with correct settings, this camera will eat others
I recomend using the stock camera

Envious_Data said:
I have to admit this the Z2 is horrible under use of Superiour Auto however manual mode with correct settings, this camera will eat others
I recomend using the stock camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi.
Where i can find a guide like that?
Because i try to use my camera with superior auto and the taken pics doesn't look good.

avercros said:
Hi.
Where i can find a guide like that?
Because i try to use my camera with superior auto and the taken pics doesn't look good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont know of any guides
Try googling words you dont know such as:
Exposure
ISO
Metering
White balance
Anything else you dont understand
I usualy like to use these settings:
ISO400(always)
Metering: Spot or multi
2MP size
Apropriate exposure and white balance
Flash i try to keep off

Here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2673226
Just see.
My opinion: currently Z2 Camera is amazing, in Manual Mode.
Recommended.
See more on my Flickr, here is the example:
Luzern bridge by doministry, on Flickr

mimahitna said:
Hi friend,
you tell that Sony has a crappy camera software... Its true but can we solve problem using another camera software and which software... ?
Maybe Google camera app or... What is your favorite camera app ?
Greetings from Serbia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony only pretends to allow other apps to take control of for example ISO (FV-5 Camera comes up in my mind in particular), but doesn't do so. The onyl camera, which really can use manual settings like ISO from user is crappy Sony Camera app unfortunately. We should all pray for Sony not screwing up 5.0 update with all it' new camera APIs being open.

So it seems to be unanimous that superior auto is crap, I'll start using manual then from now on
Thanks guys!

New way to take great photos with absurde quality (.PNG)

Hey everyone.
Today I searched in store some kind of camera app with macro focus feature (too bad Sony Camera lacks this.)
So I came across Camera FV-5. Nice interface, but still a Sony UI fan. Anyway, besides the macro focus, under Settings I found the option to save pictures as .PNG.
I knew it has a better compression, almost lossless, compared to the common and easy-to-process .JPEG, so I took one photo outside (ISO 50, AutoFocus, a bit lowered exposure) and one indoor (without flash, yellow/orange 60W lightbulb as source of light in the room, same settings as above.)
I was pretty impressed by the quality. It takes some time to process the image fully, Album firstly doesn't even recognize the photo as existent. Afterwards, it takes ages to load the cache when double-tap zoom.
Anyway, see how nice, crisp and clear photos our phones can take - with absolute no post-editing.
Taken with Z3 Compact with Cyberian Camera MOD.
BTW, the files are huge. One is 21.7 MB and the other over 25. That means 1 pixel is over 1 byte. Cool.
OUTSIDE VIEW
INSIDE ENERGY BAR

Wow - that shot of the candy bar is VERY impressive. Too bad the file size is so ridiculously large. Can you show us the same picture taken using the Sony Superior Auto Mode (8MP)?

PuffDaddy_d said:
Can you show us the same picture taken using the Sony Superior Auto Mode (8MP)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've attached 8MP and 20 MP versions, Superior Auto Mode.
And thanks to Cyberian MOD, I'm lucky to have macro auto-scene on 20MP also.
Also, massive improvement in quality overall, the Z5 Camera libs really work great.

Now that I can see them side by side, it still appears that the Sony camera app reduces noise better than the 3rd party app. I had a similar experience in a comparison thread I created a while back as well.
Sent from the only flagship phone that actually fits in my hand... The Sony Xperia Z3 Compact

weekender90 said:
I've attached 8MP and 20 MP versions, Superior Auto Mode.
And thanks to Cyberian MOD, I'm lucky to have macro auto-scene on 20MP also.
Also, massive improvement in quality overall, the Z5 Camera libs really work great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not bad for a macro shot. Here's mine using the Slim Rom i been using for couple of months.
I just used the sony camera with z5 camera libs, set to auto 8MP (4:3).

yoorie016 said:
Not bad for a macro shot. Here's mine using the Slim Rom i been using for couple of months.
I just used the sony camera with z5 camera libs, set to auto 8MP (4:3).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my god, I'm in love with your photos...
Gonna flash this today and compare the results very strictly before and after flashing

romcio47 said:
Oh my god, I'm in love with your photos...
Gonna flash this today and compare the results very strictly before and after flashing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks I didn't make any tweaks, i just used the auto and set the aspect ration to 4:3.
here's another one, and saved on JPEG format.

Jep im using open camera and snap camera they also give simelar results. I dont know why sony gave such a bad stock camera the difference is huge
The sony camera takes better pictures now than my galaxy s6

jody2k said:
Jep im using open camera and snap camera they also give simelar results. I dont know why sony gave such a bad stock camera the difference is huge
The sony camera takes better pictures now than my galaxy s6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So stock camera is now better?

doriandiaconu said:
So stock camera is now better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No i mean with open camera or snap camera its waayy better than stock camera

jody2k said:
No i mean with open camera or snap camera its waayy better than stock camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What rom are you using?
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Free mobile app

jody2k said:
Jep im using open camera and snap camera they also give simelar results. I dont know why sony gave such a bad stock camera the difference is huge
The sony camera takes better pictures now than my galaxy s6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a hard time agreeing with you. I tried to compare the stock camera software to various 3rd party software (including Open Camera) and the results indicated that Sony's produces better images:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-compact/general/sonys-camera-isnt-worse-t3102790

Google Camera and HDR+

I know some devs have succesfully ported pixel camera for nexus devices to allow HDR+. Is it possible to do the same for the LGV20 so that we can also expirience that HDR+ software?

asusjd38 said:
I know some devs have succesfully ported pixel camera for nexus devices to allow HDR+. Is it possible to do the same for the LGV20 so that we can also expirience that HDR+ software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So this question really irked me, in a good way of course. Whilst studying for my history exam, I was thinking that HDR+ is essentially software based. The Pixel's camera's specs are kinda mediocre aside from the 1.55um sensor—only f2.0 aperture and no OIS; the best part about the camera is the software to back it all up. So, I looked around to see if you could potentially port the camera app itself, which might have the correct algorithm for HDR+. I came across a dev who made the app Camera NX, which in essence is a port.
So here is a brief overview of the app.
And here he explains how the HDR+ has zero shutter lag.
What really got my attention is the following quote:
This mod is just an update to Chow's Camera NX app, which itself is a port of the Pixel's stock camera app and libraries. What that all boils down to is that you don't even need to be rooted to get Zero Shutter Lag with HDR+ mode right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyways, since I do not own an LG V20 (I hope to soon, once my Note 4 contract expires), you'll have to do most of the testing and report back, if that's alright. Nonetheless, I hope this was helpful!

Thanks for the reply. I did come across that apk and installed it. It does work as a camera but unfortunatly there is no HDR+ present. There is exposure setting and whitebalance toggles. The other problem i notice is that the slow motion seems worse quality then what is found on the stock app. By all means i am no expert bit if any one else has feedback or have tested this themselves and see improovements or HDR+ present let us all know.

Unfortunately I haven't found Google Camera to work on the V20;it works good on the note 5 though...weird. Stinks because there is no option to make photo-spheres with the V20 .
scrap that. I just downloaded the latest from xda...no problems!

qualifyordie said:
Unfortunately I haven't found Google Camera to work on the V20;it works good on the note 5 though...weird. Stinks because there is no option to make photo-spheres with the V20 .
scrap that. I just downloaded the latest from xda...no problems!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get it?
Sent from my VS995 using XDA Labs

https://labs.xda-developers.com/store/app/com.google.android.GoogleCameraMOD
Thats the link I used, I just realised it was a modified version of Google Camera from the new Pixels!
Kudos to Mishaal Rahman!
Photo spheres come out fantastic with the V20!

qualifyordie said:
https://labs.xda-developers.com/store/app/com.google.android.GoogleCameraMOD
Thats the link I used, I just realised it was a modified version of Google Camera from the new Pixels!
Kudos to Mishaal Rahman!
Photo spheres come out fantastic with the V20!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately with that app there's still no HDR+, and no UHD video recording.

Slash8915 said:
Unfortunately with that app there's still no HDR+, and no UHD video recording.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes,
No HDR+

HwaA18 said:
the best part about the camera is the software to back it all up. So, I looked around to see if you could potentially port the camera app itself, which might have the correct algorithm for HDR+. I came across a dev who made the app Camera NX, which in essence is a port. !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually the hexagon dsp on the snapdragon 820/821 does the heavy lifting for hdr+ which works different between the pixels and the 5x/6p. the latter ones only can do software hdr+. there was an interesting post on reddit about this. currently also searching for a modified google camera app as camera nx is only modified for the nexus phones. the lg g5 and v20 are very much capable of what the pixel does.

It probably isn't as simple as that. But have you tried changing the build.prop to identify the phone as a pixel?
I can't try myself as I don't have root access.
Enviado de meu LG-H990 usando Tapatalk

qualifyordie said:
Unfortunately I haven't found Google Camera to work on the V20;it works good on the note 5 though...weird. Stinks because there is no option to make photo-spheres with the V20 .
scrap that. I just downloaded the latest from xda...no problems!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can easily ,ake photo-spheres installing and using Google's Street View app
I tried in a recent trip to Mexico and I was amazed by the quality.

kbrn said:
You can easily ,ake photo-spheres installing and using Google's Street View app
I tried in a recent trip to Mexico and I was amazed by the quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Photo sphere works on the regular Google camera app available on the play store, you don't need a modded version to use that feature

KUSOsan said:
Photo sphere works on the regular Google camera app available on the play store, you don't need a modded version to use that feature
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except Google camera app is not available in the store with stock LG V20 software.

Does anyone know if it's possible to use the pixel camera mod with the wide angle lens? I'm not sure how you would put the ability to switch from regular to wide in the app but is there any way to have it default to the wide angle lens instead of the regular one?

JarkMackson said:
Does anyone know if it's possible to use the pixel camera mod with the wide angle lens? I'm not sure how you would put the ability to switch from regular to wide in the app but is there any way to have it default to the wide angle lens instead of the regular one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are reports of the app using the wide lens and for others it uses the regular narrow one. For me on my h918 it uses the regular narrow lens. There is no button for switching like on the stock LG camera so as of right now I'm not aware of any way to switch between them.

I've found nice GCam mode suitable for V20

Google Camera HDR+ function can be activated on Mate 9's?

Recently seen that for the latest 8** series Snapdragon SOC driven devices the HDR+ function on Google Camera was made functional on most of devices. The results in comparison to their original camera seems day and night from all points of view especially in low-light situations. As we now this seems to be Achilles heel for the Mate 9 and maybe the biggest reason that most of us lookup for other devices.
As I am no expert, I wonder if this function can be made functional on Kirin chipsets!? I want to take this opportunity to pull the alarm for the developers' and for the skillful members of this forum.
If successful most likely most of us won't look that soon for the planned new launches like: Note 8, V30, maybe even the next Mate.

You can do it yourself you know. Just shoot several raw images and combine them into one in post. Not as quick as HDR+ but it works!

Swan Princess said:
You can do it yourself you know. Just shoot several raw images and combine them into one in post. Not as quick as HDR+ but it works!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That thing already know, but regardless of how hard you try (any app or setup) you cannot achieve results that good. Plus google camera's exposure is much better. Please check this thing yourself if you don't believe me.

does google camera even work on mate 9?

galaxy16 said:
does google camera even work on mate 9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. But not the most recent ones. The ones for 7.0 work.

True HDR uses three different images that you then assemble in a photo editing suite of your choice. The 'HDR' function in any phone is not a true HDR and just a computer algorithm that blends three exposures. Since the Mate 9 shoots raw, most will just do it the 'real' way Would be neat to see this function in the Mate 9 for us lazy folks(yes I am lazy and yes I am a professional photographer)

Ok, so no interest in this direction, nobody keen on improving the camera.

Not what I was saying at all. If we can improve the camera and keep all the functions built into it by Huawei, I would be first in line to sign up. Hell, I bought this phone specifically because of the camera. It is a wonderful performer that I have not even begun to stretch to the limits yet, but I have only had the phone for 3 days or so. I look forward to an improved camera, but only without the loss of functionality

Here we go: Unofficial Google Camera port updated with RAW support and HDR+ customization

kermex said:
Here we go: Unofficial Google Camera port updated with RAW support and HDR+ customization
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, won't even open. That's ok, I figured it wouldn't. Would cool if we could merge some code with our stock camera app. I like it better than Google's personally

benjmiester said:
Man, won't even open. That's ok, I figured it wouldn't. Would cool if we could merge some code with our stock camera app. I like it better than Google's personally
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It working fine on my Mate 9.

kermex said:
It working fine on my Mate 9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Interesting. Did you do anything specific or just install and go? I'm in FromFuture B198, rooted obviously. Maybe it's not happy with that. I'll try restarting at least.

benjmiester said:
Really? Interesting. Did you do anything specific or just install and go? I'm in FromFuture B198, rooted obviously. Maybe it's not happy with that. I'll try restarting at least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I didn't do anything special. But pay attention: there are two different APKs. One of them is for Qualcomm CPUs. Download the one in the first link. This one.

Hey guys, I've tried the other one I think and crashed the camera driver had to reboot! Lemmie try this one! Thanks kermex
Edit: Nope! I open once, then can't open again :/ Oh well... Another curious thing is that it only detects the 12MB RGB Sensor... These sensores have so much potential, hope Huawei will get into the Camera Software deeper...

So now it works, change hw level to legacy.

Comparing histograms using 2 pictures, one is stock HDR and the other is using the Google Camera HDR+, I can conclude that HDR+ isn't working, can't see any improvements regarding dynamic range. What do you guys think?

mad.nexus said:
So now it works, change hw level to legacy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I changed was the option to save as RAW. Nothing else.

will test it with several set-ups to see if any improvement comes from the HDR+ function.

mad.nexus said:
Comparing histograms using 2 pictures, one is stock HDR and the other is using the Google Camera HDR+, I can conclude that HDR+ isn't working, can't see any improvements regarding dynamic range. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if there isnt a "nike" mark above the HDR+ icon, the function is not working
i tried using different settings, but not work for me, stay an "A" above HDR+

Looserke said:
if there isnt a "nike" mark above the HDR+ icon, the function is not working
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soooo... How did you activate it then?