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@MODS and all users:
A PANEL development SUFORUM should be a great place to share SONY PANELS SDK info and experiences
As with other HTC phones, I have seen apps and ROMs populating the forums, but we are omitting the whole idea behind the XPERIA CONCEPT: PANELS !! I know it is a novel concept (panels itself), but XDA DEVS should lead the pace Ain't ??
I have seen some excelent panel-developing posts starting to pop up recently, like THIS ONE, but a DEDICATED PANELS DEVELOPING SUBFORUM would boost production thru the typical xda-devs knowledge exchange and sharing
Please consider this possibilities, share your ideas, and thanks for reading
Yea I agree, I would like to get back into a little developing but an area where everyone can share Panel development tips/experiences etc would be great.
gtaz said:
Yea I agree, I would like to get back into a little developing but an area where everyone can share Panel development tips/experiences etc would be great.
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That's what I mean: a place to talk just pannels
I think it would be a very logical subforum.
Mods?
Maybe not only for panel development but for all software dev/tweaks.
the current (non rom) forum is too cluttered with non-dev questions, cracks in cases etc.
it's getting harder by the day to get proper tech information and problems solved..
I second that!
nixx-X1 said:
Maybe not only for panel development but for all software dev/tweaks.
the current (non rom) forum is too cluttered with non-dev questions, cracks in cases etc.
it's getting harder by the day to get proper tech information and problems solved..
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Yea I feel the same. I have read the X1 forum on here since it started and have found it very helpful. It does seem a bit cluttered with noob questions etc, to filter out the general discussion from the Panel/Software development would be really helpful.
I'd rather have the standard Apps and themes, panels can intergrate into that happily. Then this first one can be for people who forget that this isn't a helpline.. I meant for general questions.
It's a format that works across the site so why not change what works?
I've not seen enough discussion on panels to say it merits a subforum yet. Maybe a couple of stickies would suffice for a while?
If you need an extra (sub) mod for it, let me know..
I'd really like to have a nice place to discuss about panels (and apps?) DEVELOPMENT only
Other forums (check blackstone) DO have separate sub-forums for this purpose
Thus, general questions go to te "general" Blackstone subforum and not in the "DEVELOPING" subforum
But what do MODERATORS think about this ??
Tnyynt ? Alltheway ? Equinox ?
What do you think about my proposal ?
IMHO, I think it's time for the XPERIA to have a PANELS AND APPS DEVELOPMENT subforum
it's will be very useful place
I think it's a great idea, especially considering the present state of panel development. imo anything that can be done to help facilitate developers should be.
It can only be a good thing, right?
xhaz said:
imo anything that can be done to help facilitate developers should be.
It can only be a good thing, right?
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Yupp. I hope their are ppl who actually want to do this though.
awesome idea !!
first project suggestion - modify the Media Panel to incorporate a home screen, weather and messaging. Would be great to have an SE version of TF3D
I think that a Software, Themes, & Panels sub-forum is definitely possible. I think it's very unlikely that there will be a whole sub-forum devoted to it. Additionally, i'm not convinced that as far as development goes that a stickied thread wouldn't suffice if it was designated for developers. I of course could be wrong, but seeing as how TF3D doesn't even have a sub-forum, i'm gonna say it's unlikely that panels will.
scotchua said:
I think that a Software, Themes, & Panels sub-forum is definitely possible. I think it's very unlikely that there will be a whole sub-forum devoted to it. Additionally, i'm not convinced that as far as development goes that a stickied thread wouldn't suffice if it was designated for developers. I of course could be wrong, but seeing as how TF3D doesn't even have a sub-forum, i'm gonna say it's unlikely that panels will.
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Yes I had that same idea:
Why port TF3D when a similar Xperia panel could be created ??
I've been trying (trying...) to learn a little about panels, but I really miss a dedicated place/thread/subforum/whatever to READ MORE and LEARN MORE and share knowledge -INPUT, I NEED INPUT
I'll start a thread in the mean time
I've been lurking on these forums for a couple of years just grabbing the odd file here and there. First I had a Universal, then a Polaris and now an X1. I've found myself getting a lot more involved with the technical aspects of my handsets and Panels was a contributing factor in my decision to get the X1.
I have a basic introduction to programming and yet I came up with a launcher panel in a short time today. Okay, so I had to use the "compiler" at mysonyericssonblog.com but it was almost no effort to come up with a HTML launcher for an application along with it's panel graphics. If a relative novice like me can come up with something, then we're going to get snowed under here with custom panels in very short order.
I agree with gtrab about TF3D... X1 owners should run it as a panel because "our" phone has the ability and we're giving ourselves the option to change the interface in a few seconds. I personally think the cross-pollination of Blackstone apps/interfaces with the X1's can only lead to good things.
I think somewhere for discussion about panels and launchers is a very good idea. If we don't get all the panel discussions collected together, we're going to lose them in the tide of people after free tech support for their shiny phone. I don't mind trying to help out where I can, but I spend more time poring through the XDA-Dev forums than all my other "daily" sites combined.
At the moment I spend most time rebuilding (not only reskinning) the tfl3d interface (which is indeed a panel!)
By know I know there are 3 places of this forum where there is info about it
-Development and Hacking
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=260
-Themes, Applications and Software
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=474
- and burrried in the x1 forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=436
the blackstone fora does have a 'themes, applications and software' subdevision which separates the crap from the useful things.
if we could get one of those (with the same name) we can separate the creation and alterations from the problem solutions and daily chit chatter.
please..please..please
I would also like to see this at some point.
Still nothing on the SE site regarding new panels...plus the total lack of games/apps that work on the x1.
Its a real shame, dont want to compare it to the iphone...but it has such a wide variety of games & apps in such a short time. I understand its diff for winmo (due to different handsets, specs etc)...but I notice some winmo apps are setup so it automatically goes full screen...which gets me thinking why arent they all like this?
Again, I know apple check all the apps and anybody can make apps for winmo (which is party a good thing)...just seems a bit of quality control wouldnt go a miss.
I also read somewhere MS is setuping up an app store similar to apples...reaaaaally looking forward to that!
Currently I only have a few actually useful apps on my phone
TomTom
Core Player
GAlarm
The rest just seem so...meh!
Any suggestions (
I was looking for a couple of threads that I had recently bookmarked to go back to later on only to find that they weren't bookmarked anymore. I spent almost an hour searching for them only to find the one specific thread in the trash. No warning or reason was given. Why was this done? I can understand if it's a thread with only a single post or perhaps even one that has become outdated (like a Cupcake release date thread) but why a thread that has 4 pages of information for a topic that doesn't have any reference for it already? Isn't this going to just create more new threads? More e-mails? More questions? Isn't this defeating the purpose of posting a new thread about a topic that hasn't been posted or stickied, if it is just going to be deleted?
If you look in the trash you will find SEVERAL Dream threads. In fact... just on the first page HALF (TEN out of TWENTY) are from the Dream thread! So just to clearify... of the dozens of different threads for different phones half of all trash is for the G1??? Isn't the trash supposed to be for SPAM?
How are these spam (just from the first page)???
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525564
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=524956
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519591
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525034
There are a few more of course but I can understand because most of the questions have been answerered and it would be faster and easier if these people used the search feature. But some haven't been. (example)
Instead of deleting the threads... merge them. But of course you get stuck with a 500+ page thread that MOST people will not read all the way through to see if the question they are about to ask has been asked/answered already. Which is of course why they post a new thread but guess what? It gets deleted and so another thread gets posted. It's never ending and I realize that this must be hard work for the mods.
So what to do?
I propose that instead of deleting these threads without reason or warning, to PM the original poster of the thread to ask of the significance of it and to provide a legitimate reason and purpose for it. Otherwise give warning or notice of the possible deletion. Of course this does not exempt the threads that are posting warez, copyright infringements and other obvious violations of memberships.
This is only my opinion and I hope that I have made an interesting point or two about this matter.
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
JanetPanic said:
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
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Yeah... okay. I agree that some of the most annoying problems with the dream thread is that people do post in the ROM Development thread. But is deleting so much easier then moving to the "Dream" thread? If so, does it out weight the inconvenience of the possiblity of the same question being reposted because it was unable to be found by the search feature?
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows. Is it really a bother that a thread is over a month old and hasn't had any recent posts? Does it really bother anyone? Of course not! They just ignore it, right? So why go through all the trouble to delete it? Some of the threads in the trash are still useful and there is absolutely no harm in keeping it in the proper catagories (ie Dream, Applications, Themes, etc).
Any mod that simply deletes a useful and recently commented thread because it was mistakenly posted under the wrong catgory instead of simply moving it, is just lazy in my own personal opinion and is doing more harm then good. Again... just my opinion.
Binary100100 said:
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows.
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That doesn't indicate that what the mods are doing is necessarily wrong, it means that new members continue to disregard the rules (posting already answered questions, posting in wrong forum, etc).
That said, I think the mods need to reevaluate how and when they do thread merges. The form of discussion in forums like these tend to be "conversation" centric. However, the threads are presented in a flat format (by default). That means that merging two threads of identical or similar topics will cause their conversations to intermix, with disastrous results. People already have piss-poor reading skills as it is.
What do you expect the moderators to do? We didn't give them a choice. The Dream forums are out of control and it would take the 3 or 4 moderators for these forums 8 hours a day not being paid to police it. You want someone to blame? Blame your fellow XDA members because there are only 2 solutions for this problem:
Get more moderators to baby sit the forums or increase the quality of posting within the Dream forums. The later is what we need here and what the moderators are hoping for.
Edit: And honestly, I think this is the best method. Do we have the potential for losing good information? Yes. This is how you teach the multitudes of Dream posters that there are consequences for being ignorant. Being stupid is not an excuse.
It is pretty annoying how the Dream thread has exploded and that the same questions just keep on cropping up. When I reply I do try to either re-direct them to my signature (which has the basic links to Dude's ROM, SPL, Apps2SD, Radio etc), teach them how to search with the actual result or just point them to the right direction.
However with 500+ pages or whatever, it can become a chore for newbies to read though, even if 70% of the info is in the first page.
I did recommend to the mods that the Dream section needs cleaning up, with a dedicated sub forum purely for the established (or popular) cooked ROMs. So underneath the Dream Dev sub-forum is another just for JF, Dude, Cyanogen, Haykuro etc. That should remove quite a lot of traffic and usual questions then from what is supposed to be a general development thread for other matters.
Then I would suggest a much more organised and up to date FAQ in such a sub-forum which covers all of the same questions that get asked daily. Any such questions that get asked in any of the ROM forums would then be re-directed to the FAQ.
Most of us I'm sure have come from large forums (lik-sang, avsfoums, etc) and know how to search, read etc but many newer members don't, be it due to lack of effort etc. However I'm sure there are many genuine new members who are willing to learn that only need a nudge in the right direction. Simply blocking them off by trashing, linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
I would put myself forward to help moderate the Dream section but I know that zero mod positions are available at the moment, but I do agree with the OP that trashing isn't always the solution.
NeoBlade said:
linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
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The main problem is that for the veterans who have been here since Sept/Oct 2008, everything more or less makes sense because they have seen it evolve to its current state. It's a lot like a guy who lives in a very very messy room who can still find the book buried under a pile of empty ramen cups and dirty laundry. Thus its easy to say "use the search!" in response to any newbie query. That said, from the first-timer newbie perspective, there are a few problems: 1) A lot of information crammed into two poorly organized subforums. 2) A lot of information is outdated and is superseded or contradicts newer information. 3) Some of the sticky threads have very poorly written or maintained first posts.
Sticky threads are not a very good way to store information for general consumption, unless the original poster is a very good communicator and also vigilantly updates the first post with concise information from the entire thread, no matter how long it is. Of the former sticky posts, few actually meet that standard. The ideal format for information conveyance is wiki, but then there is the disconnection between the wiki and active development. In other words, people don't like to move back and forth between the wiki and the forum.
I know what you mean jashu, I love my "organised mess" at home ^_^
It does take effort alright in keeping threads on topic and up to date, I remember when administrating the TokyoToys forum (I since had to close it, joint decision by myself and the owner) and also organising events for fans and people alike to meet up and have fun, took effort and more often enough without any recognition as well which can get discouraging.
Certainly if the OP kept his or her first post updated often enough with information it will keep questions down to a minimum however I still approve of a well made FAQ which is stickied. It then becomes a focal point as any FAQ should. I'm actually in the middle of writing one myself and once its done and the people concerned are happy with it, I would be happy to post it here too.
Ideally a wiki would be best because its user editable however I had a look at the XDA wiki and it does need a bit of TLC.
I will qualify my statement in that I come from the standpoint as an administrator in a prominent Linux forum that gets more posts in an hour in than the Dream forums get in a day. I firmly believe that draconian administration is not the answer and makes the forum far less pleasant to use. I think of administration as keeping things civil and posts in the right forum more than controlling creation of threads. Forcing the organization into a few mammoth threads is not any better than letting users create new threads without rules.
The developers forum is a bit of a mess and completely left to its own it would be worse than it is. The Development forum is not really about development anymore though. It more of a "custom ROM" forum. It is rare that I see an actual post on development on the android platform. Since the primary topic on the forum is custom ROMs the support questions for said ROMs get put in the development forum and generates a mess. Creating a ROM forum would just shift the mess, so I am not sure that would be better.
I think eventually the newbies who are flooding the forum with threads that could be answered by searching will either go away or learn to search. The current choice of administration is not educating the newbies though, it is just forcing them to learn. Regardless of how any of us users feel about the subject though the administrators have made their choice on how to deal with the Dream sub-forums. We are just along for the ride.
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change. Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
JanetPanic said:
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
There's always methods in dealing with issues and I do agree that its more of a ROM section than Development thesedays... Hence in my opinion it would be better off having a ROM section for such people to post on, which will clear up for people actually developling or helping to improve the android platform - Most notibly the Bluetooth OBEX support.
This isn't the fastest forum I've seen or been involved in in terms of volumes of posts, however it is getting to the point where re-structuring and possibly more moderators are needed to help ease the burden. When a large number of people register and start being active, it is often the best time to set an example and indeed set and establish a community where people help people - Be it to simple things as pointing them to the right direction to much more techinical issues.
Without the ethos to help each other, where would open source be?
Granted I know nothing about Linux myself and couldn't code to save my life but I do enjoy the technical discussions that take place. A lot of this is lost with the usual questions that get asked, hence the need for a more up to date FAQ. Tough love is needed but I believe with the right organisation, it shouldn't have to be the only answer.
uberingram said:
This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
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the G1 is the new sidekick. and the sidekick was such a fad and trend for kids to use as a phone. the hip hop and celebrity community did well in terms of marketing the sidekick to the mainstream public as being a "your not cool if you don't have one of these" items. also the emo/scene kids are all about what the "in" things and fads are, so that highly popularized the sidekick as well.
and now since the G1 came out, most of the people that got a sidekick for those particular reasons mentioned above, are now "upgrading" to the next newer cooler big thing.... the G1.
young people love to follow trends, fads, and what's cool at the moment.
right now, the G1 is just that.
it's a double edge for Android and the G1. the popularity is one of the key things needed to make Android and the G1 a success. but with popularity comes a lot riff raff and criticism that is not welcomed so well. but i digress lol
i just hope the sidekick comes out with a touchscreen version or something, so the kids have something new shiny to play with haha
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
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ohhh i have an idea...
like when you sign up you pick the phone and platform you use then instantly redirects the new member to a FAQ or pertinent threads associated to their liking of phone and platform and at the same time directly email them a link to those FAQ and whatnot.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK?.
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Yeah, it's just how mrcrs described it. The Sidekick became quite the fashion accessory model when celebrities started picking them up. They are pictured all over the tabloids and mentioned a lot of times in up-start musician's songs. I doubt very much that it would have panned out this way if T-Mobile released the SideKick 3G before the G1 but then again, T-Mobile needed a victory and a halo phone really fast.
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
NeoBlade said:
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
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whenever i join forums and in my inbox i get a message automatically, which is usually from the forum itself, i usually disregard it because all it is a "welcome to xyz forums... yada yada yada... enjoy your time here"
i usually don't open and read it, delete it then... go wreck havoc on finding out the information i want to know or read about. but that's just me
JanetPanic said:
This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
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IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
jashsu said:
To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
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I have been here since 2005 with the Blue Angel (then the Wizard, Jam, Magician, and the Artemis). Eventually XDA started dedicating a subforum to ROMs with the general development thread up top for WinMo development. The Dream right now just has the one combined forum. Another difference is that the ROM threads in Dream seem to grow faster than I remember on the WinMo threads. I am not sure what the difference is, maybe that usually there are a couple debug threads that die out which in the Dream forum is discouraged. Regardless the rapid posting makes it harder to keep up with more than one ROM.
jashsu said:
IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
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I agree, well put.
jashsu said:
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
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Good point as well.
First of all...let me first make it clear that I liked Vista. So in case you haven't yet figured it out... I like Nexus one and have no complaints.
But, like Vista, Nexus One is being continuously targeted on internet and therefore even minor issues have been blown out of proportion. XDA is perhaps at the core of it. We have two sub-forums... General and Q&A.. which have turned into whining grounds. Everyone (including me) have been whining about issues and reducing our satisfaction level with our new phone. I certainly regret reading a few threads...I wasn't even aware of these issues..they were not bothering me... but now that i have read them... they haunt me. Are they serious? nope.. just like most of the other issues here. I am sure I am not alone who has this experience.
So...enough of my rant.. what do we do?
1) I would propose that we merge Q&A and General. General is enough. We have similar whining topics in both the forums as people are confused about which question goes where and have started redundant threads.
2) Any useless rant or repeat posts should be locked and deleted ASAP. We perhaps need more moderators here.
3) Action against impolite posters. This forum has got nasty and personal. I have not seen such behavior in other sub-forums
4) This forum will get even busier once sprint, Verizon and European devices come out... We need some stickies to avoid repetition of questions.
If you guys have constructive comments..additions.. please post.
A phone is a phone and none of them are perfect. Most of the Nexus converts are ex iphone fanboys. Lest we forget it took essentially 2 years before the iphone could do what the Nexus can do straight out of the box on day one.
I'm a tried and tested gadget freak, and I've also used pretty much every high end phone in existance (except for Vertu and Porsche branded phones) and to be honest, if I wanted a plain old perfect "phone", I'd buy a Nokia 1600 series handset and be done with it .
It makes calls, it receives calls, it doesnt crash, and it bounces when I drop it, and keeps on ticking after a damn good licking (my 1650 actually went thru a clothes wash, dried it out, and kept on going!).
My advice to you - if you're over the whining, just dont visit the General and Q&A sections...
Honestly, there still needs to be a Q&A section and a general section. The Q&A section (should be) used more for questions about using the phone, or a good place to put how to's, or for questions that could be seem as borderline developmental but development hasn't started, or for general trouble shooting where a post in the ROM thread just doesn't do it, or if it is an issue with all ROMs or most ROMs of the same nature (Vanilla Android/Sense).
I do tremendously agree you though on all the BS threads about the same issue or people whining about issues that they find annoying but aren't major. Yes, there should be threads to alert people to these issues, but there doesn't need to be a new thread every single time a user has that problem and wants to cry about it.
Honestly, the moderators are doing a much better job over here then the g1 area was for a while, pointless threads get locked at a much higher rate in the dev section, people are being reprimanded for breaking the rules numerous times, appropriate threads are being merged, threads are being moved to the correct sub-forum when needed instead of just locked to keep the information in those threads alive.
I entirely agree with you about peoples attitudes, while most people are respectful of others, many aren't, and should be warned at the least. Yeah there are times I wish I could reach through my screen and slap people, but in the end, you're just going to end up arguing with people over the internet which isn't going to get you anywhere, and in general is just going to make other people on here think less of you and be less willing to help you out in the future (or use your work if you feel like contributing, I know there are a few people whose work I refuse to use based on their past actions, or what I think about their character).
Again, I agree with you that this forum will only get busier as the nexus is released on more networks/providers/3g bands/whatever, and as users, we need to try and keep down the pointless threads, and flaming of people that post in the wrong section, so that new people won't feel so inclined to do the same (think about it, you see the guy supposedly "senior" member flaming the "junior" member for posting in the wrong section, is that any different than the junior member posting in the wrong section. It's not going to "teach" the member to post in the correct section).
Oh well, there is my pseudo-rant for the night. On most of your points, I do agree with you, so take my post how you want.
Just had to..... Win7 > Vista
I find it offensive that you compare android 2.1 to vista.
yes this forum needs stickies.
I vote no to merging the two forums. Maybe a description saying: "post in this q&a forum if you have a question you think this community can answer"
I've not had no issues with my Nexus One. No dust under the screen, no lag, no touch-screen anomalies.......nothing. I think that a lot of the whining is due to the fact that people expect much more from a phone these days. When the iPhone was first introduced there were lots of things it couldn't do, and had many flaws. But, it did things other phones didn't and it revolutionised the market. It was so unlike every other phone that people didn't concentrate on the bad things.
With the Nexus it has many competitors to compare it to. With that comes more differences and reasons to complain.
I'm with you, though, in that the whining posts need to be filtered out somehow. Maybe a 'complaints/problems forum' would be more useful?
every since this phone was announced these threads have been sprinked with useless garbage, generally speaking.
please clean up your stuff, one guy was complaining how there is lag on his nexus S after 62+ apps. Get a grip, child. compared it to his nexus one...which had well over 100 apps. this is nonsense and i dont find it as a gauge to compare anything...sounds just dumb.
gripe. but gripe right. for instance.
nexus s is an official google phone. yet i had to MANUALLY get all their apps, google ones that is, not to mention my market didnt upgrade STILL on its own. weird how i had to literally type out the market apps to find its upgrades in stuff i had.
EVERYTHING i had to get. which simply BAFFLES me since my tmobile G2 had everything pushed instantly.
Secondly, rockplayer....PLEASE WORK..i neeed to see movies. all the codes needed to be updated now...god dammit.
I guess this what its like to have a google only phone? i dont know, i dont get it. i find this phone incredibly gorgeous and have gotten alot of compliments. going to miss my nexus one but its the next of kin..im off contract still..my 3g is faastt 4.3mb-5.1mb always. idk..just clean up your talk
Good point, I have noticed a lot of useless fluff everywhere, but over time that will probably disappear as more and more devs are able to release NS mods and roms which, if popular, will push all the useless threads back down the que. But that still doesn't solve the problem, so I will add my support behind this.
Some tips to avoid posting useless posts
1. Use common sense: lag after 62+ apps, maybe more are running in the background, or more intensive? Think!
2. Google/search it: more and more people are getting this phone, so maybe you will find another post like yours, with an answer already in it!
3. Try and fix the problem yourself: with the lag example, maybe try the task manager and see if anything is hogging resources? That seems quite easy to do, no?
Then maybe it's a good idea to post a thread.
Never mind posting in the right section... Seriously, the development section is overflowing with threads that belong into general. Ironically, this thread is a prime example. It doesn't help that the mods (whoever and wherever you guys are) seem to be non-existing in this forum. Whosdaman has been doing a great job keeping the MT4G forum organized while at the same time helping people understand what belongs where. Where are our mods and how come there still isn't a Q&A section?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
I don't know, I find it kind of amusing that a guy with a whopping two whole posts in 5 months to his name is going to start a thread saying most other posts on the forums are useless garbage. Seems kind of pretentious to me.
I'm all for SEARCHING before starting a new thread, and SEARCHING before asking the same question in a thread that's already been asked and answered a dozen times. I'm all for READING FAQ and READING STICKY POSTS before posting questions. I'm all for POSTING IN THE RIGHT SECTION.
And to the OP, I'm all for USING A PROPERLY DESCRIPTIVE THREAD TITLE. Yours gives no indication about what you're really discussing in here. Something like "Let's keep this forum on-topic" or similar would be much more appropriate in my opinion. You also marked this as a QUESTION, and it's not. Very poor topic titling...
On the other side of that coin, I'm not sure I'm qualified, or anyone else besides moderators, to say you're question/post was too stupid to have been made, go away. Sheesh, we're here to help and learn off each other; that kind of attitude isn't conducive to a helpful environment. It leads to the kind of cesspool that our sister device's (the Vibrant) forum turned into where there's so much sniping and hatred at everyone that several high-profile devs have left.
Is it just me that I think the OP is also a useless gripe?
Sent from my Nexus S
nxt said:
Is it just me that I think the OP is also a useless gripe?
Sent from my Nexus S
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Is it just me that I think the OP is an Ass?
JD
PRETENTIOUS? how about whatever I need I researched or found put on my own. Just because I wrote tyro posts? Come on guy, your better than that.
dudeimgeorge said:
PRETENTIOUS? how about whatever I need I researched or found put on my own. Just because I wrote tyro posts? Come on guy, your better than that.
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I applaud you're ability to find your own answers, but yes, your OP here was a bit pretentious in my opinion.
It's pretentious because you assume that your judgment of what is and is not a value-added post is the only accurate one while at the same time you make the very same mistakes that you're criticizing. You posted in what some might consider the wrong section, with the wrong topic title, and marked the thread as as a question despite the fact that there is not a single question in your post. Then you threw in insults to others by saying their posts and opinions on lag are dumb, and then went on to about four different issues that aren't related to your original subject.
The original premise of your OP was that we shouldn't clutter the forum with irrelevant posts, but then you did that very same thing with your post. It's certainly ironic, if not pretentious.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, just amused at the pot calling the kettle black situation here. This thread should die.
Well, you know the drill: MY concerns are serious bidness; YOUR concerns are frivolous garbage.
I restored 87 apps with Titanium Backup. No lag whatsoever. Everything runs smooth like butter. Much smoother than when I had the Vibrant. So that person obviously installed something to make it lag.
Man did I **** up. Haha. Sorry man.Your my boy regardless.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
I just noticed this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=638133
May I ask why there is a ban on discussions of which ROMs are best?
Isn't that the whole point of a forum?
Is there anything else we should be aware of? banned words, certain sentences, are there any particular phrases that we can get into trouble for?
Ever heard of freedom of speech?
Am I going to get into trouble for this message because you don't like it?
Well i think it has nothing to do with ''censure''. Just some of us think that there is no BEST ROM and one should find out the BEST ROM for himself by himself.
But i may be wrong.
There is actualy no best rom!
For every user there is a best experience/stability/usefullness
How can you say its the best rom for me if it doesnt suit my taste?
Every HD2 behaves diferently from batch to batch, so another issue, for your hd2 one build may work perfect and for me - not at all...
No point in these threads.
Go in the apropreate build thread and post there, say whatever you like - it's the best, it's the worse...
I can't see any censureship here.
There is actualy no best rom!
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This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
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Click to collapse
if all the mor... eh users where able to make just whatever post on the boards they liked everything would be a insane mess. topics that come along every week or so are usles they always have the same result. one user says THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!11111oneoneone the other says NO YOU SUCK THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!1111oneone and this wil go on for about 40 pages and still no one is any wiser.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
The problem here is that alot of users have their opinions and they think their opinions are the only possible correct answer. And guess what oppinions can't be wrong. They can be different weird or even downright bizarre but they are all correct in their own world.
So you can create a topic and expect a flood of spam flame wars and rubbish but all it gets you is either a major Troll boner or a headache.
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
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And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
when you register acount on this site/forum,do you check YES/accept with the ruules
Because this is a development forum (or we try to be).
Disucssions on the "Best ROM" are subjective, and time limitted. Most people have thier faviorite ROM, this is not the best ROM, but they believe it is. I have seen these threads in the past and they just deteriate into "Fanboi'istic" (word a day ) debates over who's ROM is best and why.
A Clean ROM is fast and customisable, a Loaded ROM is feature rich, a themed ROM is the Chef's taste, etc.
Here is a lengthy discussion which I participated in last time this topic was raised : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466666
Thanks
Dave
No ROM is BEST !!!!!1111oneoneone11! (Though personally I think that ****** ROMs are good)
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
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IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
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Click to collapse
You can talk the hell out of it, no one is stopping you, just do it in the right place - the build thread.
If you don't like the way moderators run the forum you can delete the account and make your personal Freedom forum or whatever you like...
Personaly I think you are a joke.
Be well and speak freely
btw
As a fellow xda user said above: you accepted the rules which the creators/owners/moderators of this forum ask us to comply with. Period!
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
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Click to collapse
I see that you do not get the point of all this:
- that thread has been closed because it has no point.
- you can discuss the best rom thing for 1000 pages and there will be no BEST ROM, because there is no best rom.
-of course you can tell other people what you think about a rom but your best rom will not be my best rom
- so this is why that thread was closed.
-it is F***ING POINTLESS
- JUST LIKE THIS THREAD.
I agree this thread is totally pointless.
It would be great if a moderator closes it as it brings nothing to discuss just like the other thread that was closed.
If everyone would open a thread like this it would be very hard to find the best rom as the board
would be all cluttered with best rom threads and yes and no discussions.
DaveShaw
That was a very helpful post, the link you posted was most helpful and I especially agree with the well-crafted response from dumpydooby.
I apologise if I have posted in the wrong place and quite understand if this thread is moved to the correct place.
You are also correct that discussions of this nature are time limited.
Obviously we can all see that this is a subject of passion to many.
In my humble opinion there should always be a 'what we think is the best ROM for device X at the moment' thread. When it does get too old or argumentative etc. then just start a new one.
berbecverde
I disagree, I think there will always be a need to discuss the most popular combination of ROM/Radio/Apps of the moment. If you feel strongly that we should not have this freedom then I feel strongly that you are wrong.
lms1407
You just revert to personal insults, I'll bet you say things like 'this conversation is over!'
Avon76
Do you really think that your post was helpful? Honestly?
Massive post wot I prepared earlier follows, look away now if you're not interested.....
I suspect that this whole thread will be deleted or removed or force closed by the censors very soon so read it while you can.
Let me illustrate my points here, remember that I am talking about my dislike for censoring these forums in general for any topics but let's use the topic of discussion of ROMs to show how the censors are damaging the integrity of the forums and shooting themselves in their own feet at the same time.
Let's do it with a thought experiment.
Developers A, B, C and D develop ROMs for device X and make them available to users.
Users, quite within their rights in my opinion decide to discuss the various merits, likes and dislikes about these ROMs in a thread called 'Best ROMs for device X' where one user says 'I liked the graphics on A's ROM but I really liked the apps on D's ROM and I found C's ROM to be a bit unstable and I'm using ROM B at the moment because ...... '
Please imagine your answer for this question.
Who will benefit from this discourse?
Developers A, B, C or D ?
The users ?
Everyone ?
It is quite obvious that some of the users with the ability to close threads have the opinion that all ROMs should be tried and that there should be no shortcuts and new users should be railroaded into having to go through all the procedures that 'everyone else has had to do' and their only method to enforce this policy is to censor what is allowed to be posted but I would like to point out that in doing so they are going against some peoples wishes, look at one of the posts in that other thread (created by a senior member) where one user states:
Personally think this thread is a good idea for people like myself don't have a lot of spare time and haven't flashed a ROM yet; but are interested in doing so and want to know a good place to start, based on more seasoned users experiences.
I for one will be keenly viewing this thread (provided it doesn't get closed!).
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However apart from all the unseen damage that censorship causes, in this particular case the developers might get some valuable insight into what users are actually looking for, a healthy competition might be the result and then who do you think is going to get the benefit in the end? Everyone!
There will always be those who want to try every ROM and Radio etc. but at the moment these people are restricted to the individual ROM threads if they want to share the results of their hard work and anyone who wants to see an objective discussion of the merits of the different ROM/Radio/Apps versions is forced to look on other forums on other websites.
The developers never really get to know what it is that the users really want.
Look at the mechanism at the moment, the user goes to the thread of developer A and says 'you're ROM is the best! Fantastic!, would it be possible to adjust this bit here?' and the developer thinks cool, they really love my ROM and he may or may not get around to adjusting that bit there.
Look at what it could be like:
Yeah, developer A's ROM is ok but I user developer B's ROM at the moment coz A's doesn't do this ...'
No kissass required, if developer A wants everyone to use his ROM then he'll need to make it like everyone wants or better.
Laurentius26
I see the massive amount of posts that you have made, I'm sure that you have been of tremendous help to a lot of people and that your opinion probably carries a lot of weight around here but I have to ask this question, would you not agree that the definition of a pointless post is that no-one replies to it?
Would you not agree that the mere fact that this topic is getting a lot of replies would indicate that it is in fact a topic of interest and therefore cannot be regarded as pointless?
I can see the potential advantages of having such threads, but seeing the number of arguments and fall outs users have already regarding ROMs abilities, chef preferences, what makes a good ROM, etc. it would fail.
If all our users were well bahaved (which they are not), they all stayed on-topic then we wouldn't need as many mods as we do now. As it is, there are many reported posts everyday from users that require mods attention, keeping the forum as organised and as friendly as we can.
Having to maintain "Best ROM" threads would be tiresome with well behaved users, just having to keep closing and re-opening new threads based on public opinion, but throw in troll, flamer's, fanbois it would be work.
In the past we have allowed "ROM Comparison" threads, that are fact driven, not opinion driven, as there is no reason not to.
My other concern is what will happen to Chefs if other users constantly down vote their ROM's (that is if they want to follow that thread as well as their own ROM threads).
Also,
Closing a thread does not censor it. It is still viewable and searchable, new useres, can search the site for the "Best HD2 ROM" and find a link to threads explaining why they are closed and what's the best way to try a new ROM. In guides I have previously assisted in writing (mskip's, Kaiser and Rhodium) it includes text advising users which is ROM to try first. If a user is new to XDA, they are encouraged to post questions in such threads, where (all been well) they will get a reply telling them to just try one after reading about the features. I have suggested NRG's ROMs to new users in the past because of their stability and popularity.
Dave
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
IanMc said:
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
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For a bit of history this decision was made long before I was a mod, and spent my Senior member days handing out insults to those who created those threads.
Even back then when a good number of users were mature and technical, before android and the mass increase of new members with, the mods (a few still remain ) knew the problems with such threads. As such, I don't think we will ever shift from this position.
Also,
I am a stackoverflow.com user and they have a similar rules on subjective posting for many of the same reasons.
This thread is just retarded even more then the ridiculous "what the best rom" threads.
Those threads are not "censored" they are simply moved or deleted because people are getting sick of them as they are asked every day and the answer is the same every time but still you get n00bs asking.
Its like going into ice0cream shop and saying "hey what your best ice-cream", just plain stupid.
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
IanMc said:
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
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Go buy a CHE t shirt and go yell at the white house fight the power and all its censorship. Seriously you accepted rules when you registered here. This is not a democracy this is a privately owned forum where moderators decide if some topic is retarded yes or no.
And i hate to bring it to you like this but a retarded monkey fish is less retarded then that topic. No amount of talking or trying to convince your topic is something different then the next what build is best for my HD2 because i am to lazy to search topic. That kind of topic gets closed nearly EVERY DAY.
So again if you are so keen to fight the power buy a che t shirt and go yell at your local government.