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Everytime I read mobile.engadget or any gadget site for that matter, I see posts "dogging" the Android operating system about how they are fragmented and certain apps/games won't work for older OS's/devices. Our EVOs have been out for almost 6 months now and this phone is still rock solid IMO but I wonder how fragmented (if at all) this OS is and what that means for this phone and future android devices. I'm literally asking cause I have no idea. And also what the heck is fragmented actually mean, cause all I get out of this is that the older Android devices just can't run the app or game because of the older/slower specs not necessarily because of the OS.
It would help if you posted the link. When you say fragmented, I would guess that this means that Android Users are divided between those that can run an application on said device and those that can't.
This is not any different that using M$ OS's as well. Not all applications will run on older Operating Systems. This is partly due to Hardware upgrades and partly due to marketing. If all software were reverse compatible then people would be less likely to upgrade their devices. Also the list of Drivers would get longer and longer as the Android Developers add phones to their database.
Apple only has what, 4 phones and 2 or 3 Ipod Touch's? And realistically most of the people that own these would have the 3rd or 4th Gen. Phone anyways. I think the "fragmentation" problem will exist on no matter what platform OS you are using, its just that Android is on sooooo many devices now ranging from Phones/TV and now its going into cars. It wouldn't surprise me to see it on X-box since they like to run Linux code.
So yeah.... Long story short its due to all of the different devices and the fact that no one keeps electronics for any length of time but IMHO Android will start to get a lot more life out of their electronics since the software is upgradeable like on a PC.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. We saw the same thing in the computer desktop arena. At one point you had Windows 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, Win95, WinNT, and Win98 all running around at the same time. Going back even further all the different flavors of DOS. The PC industry survived so will Android. Eventually you will have to upgrade so fragmentation is pretty much a moot point. IMHO
My guess would be because there are phones running multiple versions of the OS such as 1.6/2.1/2.2. Some apps such as task killers will work on 1.6 and 2.1 but not 2.2+. Game compatibility seems more reliant on what that particular phone is capable of. Our phones can handle just about any game available whereas a G1 or MT3G is far more limited.
Sent from my HTC SUPERSONIC
Fragmentation refers to the fact that there are so many different versions of android the app developers have to code for. With the Iphone for example most everyone is at version 4.1 or 4.2. Android devices are being released with 1.5, 1.6, 2.1, 2.2 and soon 2.3. It makes it extremely hard to code and optimize apps across all versions. I foresee this has having no negative effects on our beloved EVO's for though.
People like to point out the fact that there are multiple android devices, and not all of them are on the newest os (like some of the sgs phones not having froyo, or the moment, or hero for example). unlike the iphone, where there is only one device of each generation, and when the update is released, everyone can get it.
My take on this is I like variety, just because I like my Evo doesn't mean it suits everyone. Just like there are a ton of people that consider a hardware keyboard a must have, yet I would rather not have one. Having to wait for HTC and Sprint to release the newest version to my phone, or wait for one of the amazing developers contributing their hard work and skill to port it for use is just fine with me. Would it be nice to get it the moment google pushes it out, probably, however I can almost bet that the Nexus line will always get first crack anyway. This is just my two cents, I hope the explanation helps.
Sent from my HTC SuperSonic 4G using the XDA app.
Brutal-Force said:
It would help if you posted the link. When you say fragmented, I would guess that this means that Android Users are divided between those that can run an application on said device and those that can't.
This is not any different that using M$ OS's as well. Not all applications will run on older Operating Systems. This is partly due to Hardware upgrades and partly due to marketing. If all software were reverse compatible then people would be less likely to upgrade their devices. Also the list of Drivers would get longer and longer as the Android Developers add phones to their database.
Apple only has what, 4 phones and 2 or 3 Ipod Touch's? And realistically most of the people that own these would have the 3rd or 4th Gen. Phone anyways. I think the "fragmentation" problem will exist on no matter what platform OS you are using, its just that Android is on sooooo many devices now ranging from Phones/TV and now its going into cars. It wouldn't surprise me to see it on X-box since they like to run Linux code.
So yeah.... Long story short its due to all of the different devices and the fact that no one keeps electronics for any length of time but IMHO Android will start to get a lot more life out of their electronics since the software is upgradeable like on a PC.
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One example of many if you google...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/entelligence-will-android-fragmentation-destroy-the-platform/
Yeah I'm not smart enough to know if this would effect our phones or not, but who really knows as of right now? Why doesn't Android just do what MS did and make a standard for what the manufacturers need to build in order for it to be up to par for Android (for once MS did something right in that regard IMO). Is that what Honeycomb is suppose to accomplish, a minimal spec sheet for manufacturers?
My two cents:
I think the "fragmentation" issue is primarily software related and is the fault of the manufacturers and service providers. That said, I think the most important issue is whether the fragmentation discourages developers from creating apps for Android.
As hardware and software advances there will always be features that will work on some phones and not work on others. This occurs with the iPhone too and is no surprise, however, Apple still rolls out new OS's to all phones so that the vast majority of users are on the same platform.
While Google has been releasing two versions of Android per year, it is the manufacturers and service providers who decide whether or not to roll out the updates and that seems to be a crapshoot. Since the manufacturers are not just tolling out vanilla Android, instead choosing to overlay their own UI on top (e.g. Touchwiz or Sense UI), this would require effort on their part to rework their UI to keep up with Android updates. And, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't... So, even though you have hardware in circulation perfectly capable of running newer versions of Android they don't because the manufacturers don't allow it.
I think most people would agree the number of quality apps in the iTunes store far exceeds the number of quality apps in the Android Market. However, Android has been outselling the iPhone for almost a year now. The question is: Is it the "fragmentation" keeping developers from porting their apps to Android? Or, is it something else? If it IS the fragmentation then I AM worried. I think 2011 is an important year for Android and I remain optimistic the Apps will come. It'll be interesting if they don't...
To Be Continued...
the evil fragmentation comes from low-end android phones also some developers not properly coding
Beejis said:
One example of many if you google...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/entelligence-will-android-fragmentation-destroy-the-platform/
Yeah I'm not smart enough to know if this would effect our phones or not, but who really knows as of right now? Why doesn't Android just do what MS did and make a standard for what the manufacturers need to build in order for it to be up to par for Android (for once MS did something right in that regard IMO). Is that what Honeycomb is suppose to accomplish, a minimal spec sheet for manufacturers?
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simple to answer i think, here's the thing, not every phone is going to be the same, just like not every carrier is the same, what i mean is that each manufacturer is going to have their own set of hardware and specs to follow, thus giving them an option to best choose the Android version that best suits the phone they are building.
Engadget is a huge iEverything fan, so they will help bash android and google just as much as Mr. duschbag, sorry i meant Job's, but you get the point, after all it was Jobs that first coined the whole android is fragmented war, however someone correct me if i'm wrong.
Besides if manufacturer were to listen to android about having a set standard then we might as well also be referred to as Apple, but since we're not under the dictatorship of Stevie, we don't have to worry about that.
Android fragmentation deals with both software and hardware.
Software-wise you have different phones having different Android versions -- OEMs seem to only support their phones for a year, sometimes even less, and sometimes not at all after it's release. You already see this problem with 1.6 vs 2.0 vs 2.1 vs 2.2; and as soon as Gingerbread appears you'll be seeing a sudden split between Android version share. This causes problems for developers because each Android version supports varying API levels, so some phones are inevitably left behind by developers.
Hardware-wise you have a lot of phones that are very different. You can have two phones of the same Android version and you'll still see app incompatibilities. Different CPUs, GPUs, cameras, etc., causes developers to work extra hard to make them all work; this sometimes leads them to drop support for some either because of the extra work it would take or because the hardware is just two low end. This is especially true with games and a reason why I think iOS/WP7 will be the leading mobile gaming platforms in a couple of years.
A lot of people think that Android Market will suddenly become the best once Android's market share inevitably over runs iOS; and I personally think it wont because of fragmentation. I don't think people understand just how expensive it is to develop and design an app that is of the top ~10% iOS quality -- it's in the 100's of thousands. Supporting Android is just that much more difficult for developers. Then there's the fact that a lot of the increasing market share is coming from low end phones which: 1) will probably suffer the worse from the fragmentation problem (incompatibilities with apps), and 2) would most likely not even invest into many paid apps anyway.
Beejis said:
One example of many if you google...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/entelligence-will-android-fragmentation-destroy-the-platform/
Yeah I'm not smart enough to know if this would effect our phones or not, but who really knows as of right now? Why doesn't Android just do what MS did and make a standard for what the manufacturers need to build in order for it to be up to par for Android (for once MS did something right in that regard IMO). Is that what Honeycomb is suppose to accomplish, a minimal spec sheet for manufacturers?
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Intel did it, M$ did it, AMD did it, Nvidia did it and Apple is doing it now. The reason we use Android is so that Corporations don't MAKE us do it. Also, companies like M$, Intel and Nvidia have been pulled into court for things like this. In the end, they "open" back up, because thats what people want.
Brutal-Force said:
Intel did it, M$ did it, AMD did it, Nvidia did it and Apple is doing it now. The reason we use Android is so that Corporations don't MAKE us do it. Also, companies like M$, Intel and Nvidia have been pulled into court for things like this. In the end, they "open" back up, because thats what people want.
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People want open? Really? People just want good phones.
Best example....
Most people upgrade their phones every two years. So it won't really matter so long in those two years we get at least one upgrade.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
novanosis85 said:
Best example....
Most people upgrade their phones every two years. So it won't really matter so long in those two years we get at least one upgrade.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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So you'd be okay rocking a 1.6 phone right now and for maybe another year?
This may have been an issue a year ago but if you check this link:
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html
you can see that 77% of android devices are 2.1 and 2.2. Newer versions of the OS will hopefully decouple software updates from the actual service carrier and phone manufacturer, increasing this percentage even further.
Google makes available many guides for deploying your application and being able to support across all versions. Also, the sdk easily allows you to target the newest version and features while still maintaining portability to older OS versions.
Basically, unless you are developing some crazy cutting edge application then 'fragmentation' is not an issue, hardware or software. Using that as a dividing factor with regards to gauging the success of the operating system is by now a stretch from the truth.
elegantai said:
This may have been an issue a year ago but if you check this link:
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html
you can see that 77% of android devices are 2.1 and 2.2. Newer versions of the OS will hopefully decouple software updates from the actual service carrier and phone manufacturer, increasing this percentage even further.
Google makes available many guides for deploying your application and being able to support across all versions. Also, the sdk easily allows you to target the newest version and features while still maintaining portability to older OS versions.
Basically, unless you are developing some crazy cutting edge application then 'fragmentation' is not an issue, hardware or software. Using that as a dividing factor with regards to gauging the success of the operating system is by now a stretch from the truth.
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I'd argue that the large share of 2.1/2.2 devices is due to the fact that Android has finally gotten popular and sales of current devices has really picked up. So a majority of phones are currently newer 2.x devices. Lets see how this is once 2.3 is released and OEMs fail to keep them up to date just as how it has been in the past.
That is one possibility, but if you look at the bottom of that page there is a stacked line graph representing the historical distribution over the past 6 months.
If you look at version 2.1 and compare its slope to 1.5/1.6 you can see that the older versions follow the same slope as the 2.1 slope, meaning that 2.1 phones were actually replacing physical phones running 1.5 and 1.6.
If you look at when 2.2 takes a steep upward slope you will not notice the same pattern of 2.1 and older following the slope of 2.2, which tells me that more people upgraded from 2.1 to 2.2.
So if this pattern holds, then hopefully it means phone manufactures are starting to realize the importance of providing newer operating systems for their devices. But as you said, we will see!
It's fragmented, but people wouldn't care if all the apps worked across all versions. That's really the only problem.
The average person does not care how many mflops their device scores in linpack or what their quadrant score is, they just want to play Angry Birds, and their phone they bought last year can't, and they aren't able to upgrade yet.
clamknuckle said:
The average person does not care how many mflops their device scores in linpack or what their quadrant score is, they just want to play Angry Birds, and their phone they bought last year can't, and they aren't able to upgrade yet.
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This.
10char.
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2011/01/android-30-platform-preview-and-updated.html
v0kal said:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2011/01/android-30-platform-preview-and-updated.html
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As of now this is all I would be interested in from 3.0 . Hope cyanogen can pull this into CM7
New types of connectivity: New APIs for Bluetooth A2DP and HSP let applications offer audio streaming and headset control. Support for Bluetooth insecure socket connection lets applications connect to simple devices that may not have a user interface.
Yep seems to be a preview SDK for 3.0 with a final SDK in coming weeks. Simply prep for Honeycomb tablets.
"A built-in GL renderer lets developers request hardware-acceleration of common 2D rendering operations in their apps, across the entire app or only in specific activities or views."
So it seems that 2.3 isn't hardware accelerated...now I want 3.0 on my desire . But here's another quote:
"Android 3.0 (Honeycomb) is a new version of the Android platform that is designed from the ground up for devices with larger screen sizes, particularly tablets."
So Honycomb isn't for phones? I really hope Google can clear things up a bit because I remember Andy rubben saying the Honycomb can adapt to phones & tablets.
Any thoughts or theories?
Weren't there enough thoughts and theories about it?
Jack_R1 said:
Weren't there enough thoughts and theories about it?
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Yes there was a lot of theories, but now we have something official to discuss rather than hearsay. Anyway, don't discuss if you don't feel like it.
How about the 2.4? really don't know what Goolge is thinking about. Just want a stable version and improve it by other works. Not so much version and make people confuse. It seems that N1 may not flash it~~
mr.r9 said:
Yes there was a lot of theories, but now we have something official to discuss rather than hearsay. Anyway, don't discuss if you don't feel like it.
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Looking at the new preview SDK, it only big screens by default. And reading through the platform highlights really only mentions tablets. However, a couple Android devs have already stated its for all platforms. Seems to me that they don't want to reveal that its for phones yet, so that they can advertise that it is made for tablets.
The main criticism the iPad got was being a giant iPhone. I think they want to avoid that by having people believe that it isn't the same Android that is on phones.
I guess when they release the full SDK we'll know for sure.
Interesting...the beat goes on!
Honeycomb is also for phones, but we all knew that right?
From the documentation:
Publishing your app for tablet-type devices only
Additionally, you should decide whether your application is for only tablet devices (specifically, xlarge devices) or for devices of all sizes that may run Android 3.0.
If your application is only for tablets (xlarge screens; not for mobile devices/phones), then you should include the <supports-screens> element in your manifest with all sizes except for xlarge declared false.
With this declaration, you indicate that your application does not support any screen size except extra large. External services such as Android Market may use this to filter your application from devices that do not have an extra large screen.
Otherwise, if you want your application to be available to both small devices (phones) and large devices (tablets), do not include the <supports-screens> element.
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Well, all clear then! The future of Android looks neat!
Nice find
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
spamlucal said:
Honeycomb is also for phones, but we all knew that right?
From the documentation:
Well, all clear then! The future of Android looks neat!
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Click to collapse
Hmmmm...good find! Android is getting really interesting visually, which is IMO a milestone it needed to reach a while ago
Anyway, can't wait for an alpha sdk image on my phone to play with if that's possible currently
Forget Ginga and Honeycomb. Havent you all hear of whats ahead of honeycomb? Its called " Chicken Soup". Yup, ik... Weird name. But its only for dual core over 2ghz. So phones arent ready. Its suppose to be completely holographic 3d without glasses. Pretty neat. And requires horsepower of xbox 360 or more. Anything less and its a no go. Its suppose to be the next gen OS and quantum leap from even honeycomb. Remember the name "chicken soup". Its comming next year by christman. Cant wait!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
SINNN said:
Forget Ginga and Honeycomb. Havent you all hear of whats ahead of honeycomb? Its called " Chicken Soup". Yup, ik... Weird name. But its only for dual core over 2ghz. So phones arent ready. Its suppose to be completely holographic 3d without glasses. Pretty neat. And requires horsepower of xbox 360 or more. Anything less and its a no go. Its suppose to be the next gen OS and quantum leap from even honeycomb. Remember the name "chicken soup". Its comming next year by christman. Cant wait!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
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This was a horrible and incredibly illogical troll/joke attempt
spamlucal said:
Honeycomb is also for phones, but we all knew that right?
From the documentation:
Well, all clear then! The future of Android looks neat!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It actually does not mean much.
Android application could always define different layouts for different resolutions, orientations, themes or screen sizes. So, it is just one additional form factor, one of many. And the way to say to the market which layouts are supported and which are not.
It also does not mean, that "honeycomb for phones" would be the same as honeycomb for tablets "just smaller".
They only said, that phone version will move in similar direction. Which can mean pretty much anything.
In fact I expect, that honeycomb for phones will be seriously different, since a lot of new honeycomb for tablets features on smaller screens do not make any sense.
My theory:
Honeycomb is currently, Tablets only.
We are going to see a division in Android for Phones and Android for Tablets.
Tablets will be at 3.0 starting off.
Phones are currently at 2.3, and will continue 2.4 being Gingerbread as well with updates that should have happened with 2.3. (Like 2.0 and 2.1 being Eclair)
Once phones have the ability to run such a resource hungry operating system(3.0) the Phone and Tablet versions of Android will merge into one.
Wisefire said:
My theory:
Honeycomb is currently, Tablets only.
We are going to see a division in Android for Phones and Android for Tablets.
Tablets will be at 3.0 starting off.
Phones are currently at 2.3, and will continue 2.4 being Gingerbread as well with updates that should have happened with 2.3. (Like 2.0 and 2.1 being Eclair)
Once phones have the ability to run such a resource hungry operating system(3.0) the Phone and Tablet versions of Android will merge into one.
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Click to collapse
But the hardware of the new tablets is the same Tegra 2 of the new phones, so I think the problem is the adaptability of the OS to smaller screens in a way it is usable for our fingers.
Anyone here used the leaked "honeycomb music player"? It has all the new characteristics we saw on the xoom tablet but worked very nice on my Nexus One with 2.2.1.
I think when honeycomb's source code come out we will get working builds.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
I heard Ice cream is going to be only for refrigerators. You know cause of the thermostat API that very few phones support.
marlonbr said:
But the hardware of the new tablets is the same Tegra 2 of the new phones, so I think the problem is the adaptability of the OS to smaller screens in a way it is usable for our fingers.
Anyone here used the leaked "honeycomb music player"? It has all the new characteristics we saw on the xoom tablet but worked very nice on my Nexus One with 2.2.1.
I think when honeycomb's source code come out we will get working builds.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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I believe you are absolutely right. I tried making an AVD for Honeycomb with the screen resolution of my Nexus One. The launcher force closed continuously but you could see that the standard pull down notification bar was there. So I take that to mean that Honeycomb is for all devices and just changes its layout based on screen size.
draugaz said:
It actually does not mean much.
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A little bit of context: The text I copy-pasted is in a section called "Upgrade or Develop a New App for Tablets and Similar Devices"
In it, is says:
If you want to develop something truly for tablet-type devices running Android 3.0, then you need to use new APIs available in Android 3.0. This section introduces some of the new features that you should use.
The first thing to do when you create a project with the Android 3.0 preview is set the <uses-sdk> element to use "Honeycomb" for the android:minSdkVersion.
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What does this mean? it means this app won't work on anything other lower than honeycomb. So, the "choose your screen size" text I pasted yesterday applies to honeycomb-only apps.
The documentation in the SDK is a nice read actually
FYI: This is a venting post, written spur of the moment. Probably rambling from point to point without proofreading or organizing thoughts. Don't even know if it will make sense to anyone.
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues. IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that. The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011. Google should be ashamed for letting these manufacturers get away with running an outdated version on a device that is completely cabable of running the newest iteration. Had an official means of updating to Jellybean been available I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away. For example, there has yet to be a legitimate Spotify (which I use daily), twitter, Facebook tablet app. Even the official apps they do have for "tablets" are weak in the user interface compared to iPad apps.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
You have a very good point on it, I couldn't agree more with it.
But regarding the distribution of Android, I think that if the OS had to be the same on every phone/tablet, there wouldn't have a reason to exist so many different devices, it would be like Apple's iOS and its devices.
What makes the platform interesting is the fact that anyone can use it and alter some elements of it, a thing that you don't have in the strict control that Apple has on iOS.
Sent from my MB525 using xda app-developers app
I agree with you in certain points - as for update procedures in general.
I am still very annoyed by the update politics of the Transformer, since the officially offered upgrades caused so
many troubles for me, as random reboots and freezing ,......
On top of it, skilled people in this forum then manage to get nice kernels and ROMs done which are just
much better in performance and stability compared to stock, that you really do wonder who the heck ASUS is hiring
I found finally a stable combo for me based on ICS but failed so far for JB.
I am at the moment testing different JB EOS and kernel combos but experience still issues.
This can become indeed kind of boring....
Your view comparing the great support of Apple on the other hand I don't share completely. It is basically the same as for their Desktop/Laptops.
It is really so much easier to only support a handfulll of devices than thousands of different combinations. Sure, you have a point that
you benefit when you choose one of their devices. But bluntly I become afraid of the growing power of Apple, since I really embrace choice.
Their are always people who prefer a certain different device because it helps their needs ( look at all the different screen sizes for Android and
then check Apple), me I prefer e.g. HW keyboard for a mobile phone.
But then I prefer as well Linux and the choice to put together your preferred OS over a non-customizable MacOSX ...
BTW: I own as well Apple devices and this is not supposed to become a flame thread, please
At the end of the day its down to us as individuals what we buy.
The reviews are not always impartial but certainly a good starting point, but i find researching any product i buy before hand a must now a days.
Great example was when i had bought my gtab - if i had read about it properly i would have know Samsung are one of the worst for updates.....but then again none of the manufacturers promise any future upgrades - maybe again we are just expecting something that we were never told we were going to get??
Never had an issue with my TF but i agree you should not have to rely on a developers site to get "improved" versions of the software - but if i had an Ipad i would have no doubt jailbroken it to improve my ipad experience aswel, just like ive done in the past with ipod touches etc. Would i get another TF - yes - im looking to get the Infinity as i still feel that the Asus TF fits my needs and is still one of the best supported tablets out there.
So the moral of the story is nothings perfect, the infos out there......we just need to be a little more astute as individuals and put the time into looking at the pros and cons before we buy. We spend the money and make the choice - not Google, Asus or Apple.:good:
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
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That's more or less impossible unless you managed to corrupt the first few EMMC blocks that contain the apx mode code. Which you have to know what you're doing to wipe.
Boot into apx mode, install the naked apx driver, then use Easyflasher to flash back to stock
ultmontra08 said:
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues
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ultmontra08 said:
I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
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ultmontra08 said:
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing
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You don't need to update Android unless it's a big jump like going from Honeycomb to Ice Cream Sandwich going to all that trouble to Root, Install a custom Recovery, Install a custom ROM for a minor update like Jelly Bean is silly what could you possibly need from Jelly Bean that Ice Cream Sandwich can't already do I bet the only reason is "It's the latest" and Asus are officially going to release Jelly Bean for the Transformer.
ultmontra08 said:
There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues.
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Unfortunately if you want to use something other then the stock ROM it's a process of trial and error I tried Android Revolution HD ROM for example (popular ROM) and had problems with my Transformer not responding in sleep mode and random reboots I found that Cyanogenmod was stable for my device every device is different so the trial and error process is unavoidable.
ultmontra08 said:
IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that.
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ultmontra08 said:
I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
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Google Android is licensed as an open source operating system so Google doesn't have any power to tell manufactures they can't make their own version of Android to sell with their hardware or when you receive updates that's all the manufacturer.
ultmontra08 said:
since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware.
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Click to collapse
Asus have actually been great with Android updates for the Transformer just a bit slow.
ultmontra08 said:
The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't understand that it takes time to develop and test a new operating system on a device the process isn't as simple as you think it is you wouldn't want to suddenly get an update from Asus and then be complaining that it's unstable would you?.
ultmontra08 said:
there has yet to be a legitimate twitter, Facebook tablet app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are using a Tablet the screen is wide enough to be able to acceptably use a web browser for these tasks so you don't really need a specific App developed, it's really only necessary for Mobile due to small screens.
ultmontra08 said:
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you prefer Apple feel free to switch but while having a range of hardware options does have it's down falls it gives you and developers more freedom and choice where as Apple will always have a small limited choice range.
Just get a Windows Phone or Windows 8 tablet. I am too, one of those who are totally sick about Android.
You know, I bought Asus Transformer TF101 right on launch and YOU HAVE NO idea how excited I am. But things started to change after using it for a day, lags, crashes, limited apps.
I've been waiting and waiting for months before ICS came, but a lot of issues are still left unresolved. Asus firmware is very prone to crashes.
I've been flashing ROM after ROM and wasted so many days on this... No way I will ever get an Android again.
LastBattle said:
Just get a Windows Phone ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Talk about limited apps...
Eh, the way I look at it, ill have this tablet forever and by the time its so scratched and old I can give it to my kids and I can get the latest and greatest NEXUS having learned my lesson buying non NEXUS.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
im on jb rom from team EOS, this is the only jb rom i use until now. using nova launcher makes it almost perfect buttery smooth (perfect without Widgets on the screen) .
it's easy to find good rom without having to try all of them. just read people's comment. go to last page and see how many complaints user's has.
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried Wheelie?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1676845
Android Revolution HD and be done with it. Why the need for the latest and greatest when you can use what works? I used to be an HTC fanboy, until I got the mytouch 4g slide. I hated that phone so much. I love Sense, but just the phone was.... eh. I'm very happy with my Galaxy S3. I feel like I should have opted for the Nexus, but I'm happy with my purchase.
I still have a G1 sitting on my dresser with a charged battery just in case I feel like rockin it oldschool. I'm an OG Android user. Been using android ever since the release of the G1. I do love vanilla android, but what Samsung did with TouchWiz is just short of amazing. I used to run MIUI on my HTC Vision, I ran it for a few hours on my S3, and had to go back to TouchWiz!!
And what was posted earlier, why are you using apps on a tablet when the browser works perfectly for all those websites? Apps are more of a phone thing, screen sizes sub-5"
The update from Honeycomb to ICS was a huge one and we got it, it was not bug free but good enough to get developers working. JB is not that big update unless you need Google Now.
wow i dont know where to start. i really dont want to turn this into an ios vs android flame war. but youre completly out of your mind. first of all you have to look at it from the carriers, hardware manf, and googles point of veiw.
now hardware manuf. , and carriers have it in their best interest to not release updates for all the previous gen devices from a year or two ago, even if they are capable of running the new versions. this way the new devices look more attractive to current and potential customers.
another thing is that you cant really compare the updates from iphone-iphone3g-iphone3gs-iphone4-iphone4s-iphone5-and probably in a couple months the iphone5s that wont do anything more exciting than the last model did. same thing with the ipads. before you know it you have a drawer full of iphones that look the same and dont really do anything different.
then you have android. approx 800,000 new android devices are activated every day. EVERY EFFIN DAY. now thats insane.
how many devices that didnt originally come with ios can now run ios better than they ran their org stock os? for example there are tons of devices that came stock with windows mobile/symbian/webos etc etc and they can now run many different versions of android.
my htc HD, my htc HD2, my hp touchpad, and those are just the ones ive owned. theres tons of others that were given new life because of android and the dev community.
another thing that doesnt make sense is how you can blame google, and the hardware manufacturers and the carriers for 3rd party apps that they have no involvement in. there are millions of developers making millions of apps for millions of devices. its not googles job to make sure they run perfectly on every device. thats the deveolpers fault if facebook app works better on one device than it does on another.
you see iphone and ipad apps dont really have that problem because all the devices are exactly the same. screen size/resolution doesnt change very much at all, and new features are a bore. "oh yay the new iphone can make face time calls over a cell connection and isnt limited to wifi anymore" so what they should have been able to do that years ago.
its also not googles or the hardware manuf. fault if you knowingly go against their waranty terms and screw up your device. thats the risk you knew was there. and its part of the learning process. things like unlocking bootloaders, building custom roms, modifying hardware, cross compiling drivers and kernels, overclocking, and overall getting he most out of your device, is not for kids.
yes the typical ios fanboy just wants to get his facebook updates and be able to locate the nearest starbucks, or genius bar, just by asking siri.
but the android dev comunity and the devices they work on are doing it right. why should you be told what you can and cant do with your device? why should you pay more for a device that only does less. why should you sleep on the sidewalk for 7 days to be first in line to get the new lame updated iphone that costs double and doesnt do double.
the hp touchpad is a great example of an awesome device that was on sale for 99-150 dollars from hp. it currently runs ICS like a champ, and will be getting JB roms that rock. i also have a tf101 asus that runs JB eos like WHOA! overclocked on both cores, awesome tegra2 chip. expandable memory, AND A NORMAL HEADPHONE PORT AND USB PORT. even a nice little hdmi port. its an old device already and it still blows he doors off any current gen ipad.
then theres the newer mk802 devices and hackberry A10 boards that will do anything a high end smartphone will do for 50 bucks and hooks right up to your tv. LETS see apple tv or roku do that.
bottom line is that you dont understand how this really works, and youre getting frustrated and giving up instead of learning and becoming better and the tech.
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------
redrol said:
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i just updated with eos jb rom today and its so much faster than the stock asus ics rom. i was really surprise, because its still got a ways to go.
---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 PM ----------
Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just to clarify a couple of things. There's no such thing as Android Manufacturers. well i guess with the exception of googles devices that they release is as close as you could come to calling them and android manufacturer, but the rest are not Android manufacturers. and when you think about it the screen sizes are usually pretty consistent even across different hardware manuf. you had 2.8"/3.5"/3.8"/ 4.2's were common for a while. now youre seeing mini tablet/phones in the 4.7-5+ range. but there arent that many sizes to worry about development wise. same with tablets. 7"-8"-9.7"-10.1" etc etc. same with the cpu and gpu arcitecture. you got your arms, your tegras, your mali 400's, etc etc theres an android device for everyone for anything.
i also love how my buddies iphone 5 wont display netflix properly or pandora correctly on the new screen size/dimension. maybe the iphone5s ver. 2.1 will have fixed that. in a couple years.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the general public doesnt care that their phones arent getting the newest rom/kernel versions although alot of them do. android seems to realease new versions as the hardware advances. they grow with the advancing power and abilities of devices. you wouldnt really expect a first generation tmobile g1 to run the latest jellybean version would you? its almost as if the hardware cannot really come out faster than the os to support it. everytime you hear of a new android version theres a whole new generation of way better spec'd devices that shortly follow. sorta opposite of apple, they release devices that are barely on par with devices that were released over 6 months ago or longer. if carriers dont want o update devices in order to entice customers to upgrade then i understand that. theyre in business to make a profit. i really dont see how restricting and limiting android would help in any way at all. thats the great thing about android. its just linux with a few things on top. and that is the nail in the coffin right there. unlimited customization and hackability.
haxin said:
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMEN!
Hi,
Can anyone guide as to which custom rom is the most stable one in the lot?
-Majrul
majrul said:
Hi,
Can anyone guide as to which custom rom is the most stable one in the lot?
-Majrul
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
[ROM][29/11] Dynamics v2.0 - WP7.8 RTM and much more
[ROM] Clean ROM - Stock UI - RTM 8858 Base - Focus v1.3 - 7.8 Official
Cheers, Septvies
Thanks
Thanks a lot, i will surely try them out!
But, i have seen one thing, unlike Android, the number of roms available for Windows phones are so less.
majrul said:
But, i have seen one thing, unlike Android, the number of roms available for Windows phones are so less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Yes, for sure, but because it is much less smartphone also.
Septvies said:
Hi,
Yes, for sure, but because it is much less smartphone also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Imho, you're wrong. The way I see it, in this order, Android is
1. an open platform - which makes it easier to find specs, look at thousands of Chinese spin-offs based on it; plus it's already well documented although coding for it is a mess (compatibility)
2. a more widespread platform - which makes the user base way larger than any other competitor
3. an older platform = which makes for time to develop for it
I would really like to know what is it missing when you say "(much) less". And please, please don't say apps. A platform is measured first in capabilities and only secondary in apps. By definition, a Smartphone is a phone with advanced computing capability and connectivity. After reading many, many reviews and comparison sites such as ZDNet, TechRadar, Cnet, TheVerge, PCAdvisor etc. one notices that WP8 doesn't really miss anything major, except adoption. For your comparison, Apple released notification center in IOS 5, about 4 years after first iPhone and Google in 2009, 4 years after the introduction of Android, as well. MS is doing it in 3 (it is about to release it). So as far as development cycle goes, MS is ahead here, as well as in other areas. I'm really curious to see what you base your conclusion on.
EnderPsp said:
Imho, you're wrong. The way I see it, in this order, Android is
1. an open platform - which makes it easier to find specs, look at thousands of Chinese spin-offs based on it; plus it's already well documented although coding for it is a mess (compatibility)
2. a more widespread platform - which makes the user base way larger than any other competitor
3. an older platform = which makes for time to develop for it
I would really like to know what is it missing when you say "(much) less". And please, please don't say apps. A platform is measured first in capabilities and only secondary in apps. By definition, a Smartphone is a phone with advanced computing capability and connectivity. After reading many, many reviews and comparison sites such as ZDNet, TechRadar, Cnet, TheVerge, PCAdvisor etc. one notices that WP8 doesn't really miss anything major, except adoption. For your comparison, Apple released notification center in IOS 5, about 4 years after first iPhone and Google in 2009, 4 years after the introduction of Android, as well. MS is doing it in 3 (it is about to release it). So as far as development cycle goes, MS is ahead here, as well as in other areas. I'm really curious to see what you base your conclusion on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you but I know what a smartphone, so it is not worth putting a link to the definition.
So I quote:
majrul said:
But, i have seen one thing, unlike Android, the number of roms available for Windows phones are so less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He has asked me why there is less rom available on windows phone and many more of rom available on android.
I'm not mistaken?
I was replied:
Septvies said:
Hi,
Yes, for sure, but because it is much less smartphone also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My argument rests on the facts.
Indeed, there is much less of rom windows phone, than of rom android
because it is less than of smartphone windows phone than of smartphone android.
I can also do the reverse: There is much more than rom android than of rom windows phone, as there are more smartphone android than of smartphone windows phone.
My argument is quite logical.
@septivies: I see what you meant now, your choice of words was not the best.
What you meant is:
There are less WP smartphones (than other platforms).
What you wrote can be easily read as:
It is much less a smartphone (than other platforms).
:highfive:
EnderPsp said:
@septivies: I see what you meant now, your choice of words was not the best.
What you meant is:
There are less WP smartphones (than other platforms).
What you wrote can be easily read as:
It is much less a smartphone (than other platforms).
:highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, bad translation google :fingers-crossed:
Many rom projects like Cyanogen mod, Paranoid droid rom and many others were released only for renowned company phones like Galaxy Series, Nexus series etc etc, where as millions & billions of MTK soc phones that contribute alot to the daily millions of Android activations are left out. Many MTK phones developers started request threads for cyanogen mod and other rom communities to build/release a rom for MTK phones but those request were neglected till date.
Now with the start of new rom project "Omni", MTK phone devs are hoping that this rom will also be compiled & released for MTK phones. We want Omni pioneers to release this rom for millions & billions of MTK phones.
We are willing to help you guys making Omni rom project better & grow.
Regards
Wouldn't have it been easier to read some posts in the forum?
This will happen. When you're able to watch the presentation video (which will be up in the next few days) you'll notice that @XpLoDWilD shows Omni running on the Oppo R819, a quad-core MTK device.
jerdog said:
This will happen. When you're able to watch the presentation video (which will be up in the next few days) you'll notice that @XpLoDWilD shows Omni running on the Oppo R819, a quad-core MTK device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a lot of things in the way. Also, any MTK devices that ship without kernel sources (there are a lot of them) are still out of luck.
The R819 is a game changer here - Oppo really wants it to receive community firmware support and has been EXTREMELY cooperative with us in terms of getting us documentation.
Entropy512 said:
The R819 is a game changer here - Oppo really wants it to receive community firmware support and has been EXTREMELY cooperative with us in terms of getting us documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So they are giving you access to the MTK framework sources? Or do you have to reimplement the dual sim support (I have never seen any open source ROM with dual sim support)? I'd really love to help a bit, having some MTK6577 phones lying around here.
I too have two MTK phones .....they are a powerful if it got development projects like this ...it will be the no.1 vendor in chip set marketing and ...I support for OMNI PROJECT
Sent from my Fly IQ451 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
C-o-M said:
So they are giving you access to the MTK framework sources? Or do you have to reimplement the dual sim support (I have never seen any open source ROM with dual sim support)? I'd really love to help a bit, having some MTK6577 phones lying around here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure about the state of dsim support. We do have access to quite a bit, however some items even the OEM we're working with doesn't have access to source for, and it's also a nasty licensing minefield.
There's much better potential than there has been previously, however there are still some nasty technical and legal challenges. For example, MTK's 4.2 firmware appears to be using all sorts of hwcomposer backcompat hacks to use what is effectively a 4.0 (ICS) HWC.
Entropy512 said:
I'm not sure about the state of dsim support. We do have access to quite a bit, however some items even the OEM we're working with doesn't have access to source for, and it's also a nasty licensing minefield.
There's much better potential than there has been previously, however there are still some nasty technical and legal challenges. For example, MTK's 4.2 firmware appears to be using all sorts of hwcomposer backcompat hacks to use what is effectively a 4.0 (ICS) HWC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With this I assume device will not receive 4.4 barely 4.3 but can I ask how is to work with OEM?
Sent from my Xperia U using xda app-developers app
XperianPro said:
With this I assume device will not receive 4.4 barely 4.3 but can I ask how is to work with OEM?
Sent from my Xperia U using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nobody can predict what happens in the future.
In terms of working with OEMs, not sure what your question is, but one thing we do bring to the table with Omni is considerable experience in working with OEMs. And that should be rather beneficial for everyone
Will you be allowed to release all sources needed to build the ROM?
There are sources for various MTK devices (MT6577/MT6575) that can be used already. I assume it would be no problem for the omni team to integrate them into their builds.
darkguy2008 said:
There are sources for various MTK devices (MT6577/MT6575) that can be used already. I assume it would be no problem for the omni team to integrate them into their builds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have more recent ones that are being used to bring up MTK devices.
At the BBQ, Xplod demonstrated an Oppo r819 running Omni, which is an MT6589
pulser_g2 said:
We have more recent ones that are being used to bring up MTK devices.
At the BBQ, Xplod demonstrated an Oppo r819 running Omni, which is an MT6589
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So with this you mean that those sources work for MT6577 devices?
I wish you guys the best of luck, but conserning MTK and their closed sources policy, i really don't believe those sources (and im talking about the framework /RIL) will be Open Source.
If we are lucky enought we may get some working builds for some of the phones (if an brand gives you support), but concerning the MTK licenses, well its an MINE FIELD.
An good example is the on-going Cyanogen project by FAEA for the F2S (MT6589), they got the green light from MTK, BUT the project will remain Closed Source, so no one will get those sources...
B.Regards
superdragonpt said:
An good example is the on-going Cyanogen project by FAEA for the F2S (MT6589), they got the green light from MTK, BUT the project will remain Closed Source, so no one will get those sources...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK, you are wrong:
chasepoes said:
Well I know of one dev. who is develloping CM port voor MTK658x devices (usinf Faea mobile). For now he has to operate under a NDA agreement, but once finished his source will be come available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
darkguy2008 said:
So with this you mean that those sources work for MT6577 devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unknown. And as I've said, it's a licensing nightmare.
It may be that certain components will have to be developed in a "some people have the source but can only release blobs" - I would prefer to avoid this if at all possible. The issue is if any of those "files with nasty license" are in things that can't be cleanly separated, it will present a MAJOR issue.
Entropy512 said:
Unknown. And as I've said, it's a licensing nightmare.
It may be that certain components will have to be developed in a "some people have the source but can only release blobs" - I would prefer to avoid this if at all possible. The issue is if any of those "files with nasty license" are in things that can't be cleanly separated, it will present a MAJOR issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I assume something like the HTC Magic or the Defy can be done. They don't have the sources for the hardware GPU but they managed to enable hardware compositing after some work somehow. I don't think that MTK will oppose to the project using the libs and such instead of having full access to the code, usually that feels less restrictive for both the company and the devs, imho.
I may be talking rubbish though, I'd just like the MT6577 devices to get some lovin', because we've been fighting for quite some time against ZTE for them to release the kernel sources so we can develop ROMs for the V970M and more =/
darkguy2008 said:
Well I assume something like the HTC Magic or the Defy can be done. They don't have the sources for the hardware GPU but they managed to enable hardware compositing after some work somehow. I don't think that MTK will oppose to the project using the libs and such instead of having full access to the code, usually that feels less restrictive for both the company and the devs, imho.
I may be talking rubbish though, I'd just like the MT6577 devices to get some lovin', because we've been fighting for quite some time against ZTE for them to release the kernel sources so we can develop ROMs for the V970M and more =/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ZTE,I dont know much about this company but its worse than Sony I think...
Why not release kernel sources,what are developers doing at their company...
XperianPro said:
ZTE,I dont know much about this company but its worse than Sony I think...
Why not release kernel sources,what are developers doing at their company...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much most Chinese companies are like this. Oppo is VERY non-typical of a Chinese company, which is why they have a FAR better chance of global success than any other Chinese mobile OEM right now.
Entropy512 said:
Pretty much most Chinese companies are like this. Oppo is VERY non-typical of a Chinese company, which is why they have a FAR better chance of global success than any other Chinese mobile OEM right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How very true. I have high hopes for this project as my current device is an OPPO R819. I chose OPPO because exactly they try to be open with the developers, having the experience of Motorola and their locked bootloaders the past years while the Motorola DEFY was my main device. It took a long time for the DEFY to get its first custom kernel and it only happened thanks to some very persistent people. It shouldn't be like this, so as long I have a choice I'll opt for unlocked (and cheap...) devices.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app