Database Users

SE X10 UI's -vs- native Android

I think it is rather obvious that our problems with the X10 and SE can be attributed directly to SE UI's. If SE are not able to get their UI's stable enough to run with native Android revisions couldn't SE scrap them all together? Or, at least release their products native and offer their UXP down the road when they have been able to get what ever they add to run smoothly enough with current OS and features.
3rd party add-ons are ruining the Android experience. In it's current form I do not see any advantage to Android or SE. And, I am hoping now the WINMO7 will be great; since I am confident that my next device will not be Android or SE. I understand that this is not Googles fault, but as the end user suffering through the X10's lag, bugs, closed platform, lack of control ability, and lack of timely revisions (or any revisions for that fact), where is the Android advantage?
Right now it is the companies that have partnered with Google on Android who might wind up being responsible for Android's eventual demise.
I guess the only thing we can do is hope that rumors about Gingerbread not accepting 3rd party UI's is true. If not I can not see Android being anything more then 3rd rate in the future.

Are you still trying to flame-bait?
If all a company had to offer was the same stock experience as everyone else, it wouldn't have a product to market. Why do you think every major manufacturer has their own custom UI on top of Android?
I agree that a small, niche market for stock Android exists, but it won't be enough to carry a company's sales.
It's incredibly simple marketing.
Also, I find it incredibly telling that you've chosen to ignore the six or seven firmware updates the X10 has received.

fm1776 said:
I guess the only thing we can do is hope that rumors about Gingerbread not accepting 3rd party UI's is true. If not I can not see Android being anything more then 3rd rate in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Android is not accepting 3rd party UI, then i throw Android away.
Having many selection that differentiate you and the other, that is the beauty of it man. One of the major turn off of iPhone for me is there is only single product, none offers with keyboard, same color, the UI is also is all the same. Like there is no difference between my iPhone and everyone's iPhone.
And i think the future of UXP is very bright compared to other Android device. When you pick up Samsung Galaxy S and play it side by side with your X10, you will know immediately which one is better.
Anyway, the point is full experience customization is a really wonderful thing to have.
That's why i choose to buy X10 and still prefer to use it even though its still 1.6. In my office desk i have a lot of other Android phone i can take for personal usage. Nexus One, Motorola Milestone and also Samsung Galaxy Spica, LG GW 620.
Most of them are faster and better then X10 in term of speed and because of Froyo, but whenever i take one home, i end up using X10 instead.
So conclusion its SE DEV fault that the update is delayed, but full 3rd party customization is the best thing you can have in your smartphone.
Hell, my friend is keep on whining that his iPhone doesn't have Swype and also complains about iPhone keyboard auto-correct, while i can install any onscreen keyboard for Android.

Here is one of hundreds of articles I found related to Gingerbread. So obviously there are plenty of people who see the OEM added skins as much of a problem as I do. And, from my personal experience with the X10 this hits the nail on the head.
http://www.dailytech.com/Android+30+Gingerbread+Launches+Q4+Will+Kill+Off+OEM+UI+Skins/article18897.htm
My user experience with the X10 has been anything but enjoyable. And, since this is my first and only Android experience it has left a bad taste in my mouth. I seriously doubt that I would consider another Android device without killing off OEM add-ons that interfere with OS revisions. Let's allow the manufacturers build the hardware and leave the OS's to companies that design it. Because it is all to obvious that SE for example do not know what they are doing when it comes to UI. Which is exactly why we are still waiting after over half a year for our revision.
This whole SE premise of them "improving the overall user experience" has seriously back fired on the X10.
If what is being said about Gingerbread is true I might consider giving Android another try. Though I doubt I would give SE another go.

fm1776 said:
Here is one of hundreds of articles I found related to Gingerbread. So obviously there are plenty of people who see the OEM added skins as much of a problem as I do. And, from my personal experience with the X10 this hits the nail on the head.
http://www.dailytech.com/Android+30+Gingerbread+Launches+Q4+Will+Kill+Off+OEM+UI+Skins/article18897.htm
My user experience with the X10 has been anything but enjoyable. And, since this is my first and only Android experience it has left a bad taste in my mouth. I seriously doubt that I would consider another Android device without killing off OEM add-ons that interfere with OS revisions. Let's allow the manufacturers build the hardware and leave the OS's to companies that design it. Because it is all to obvious that SE for example do not know what they are doing when it comes to UI. Which is exactly why we are still waiting after over half a year for our revision.
This whole SE premise of them "improving the overall user experience" has seriously back fired on the X10.
If what is being said about Gingerbread is true I might consider giving Android another try. Though I doubt I would give SE another go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"The wealth of information was leaked by Mobile-review.com’s Eldar Murtazin in his Russian language/locale podcast "Digestiv.""
While the guy has a good track record, anything said about a non-existent OS can't be taken as fact.
Also, you seem to be the only person brutally raped by the X10 that, for some reason, keeps asking for more, soapfree. I don't understand why you post repeatedly about an OS and phone you claim to hate so much.
SE's UI is just a slap of blue over stock Android, with some widgets. Then you go and blame them when they want to make sure their update is bug-free (as it can be)? Would you rather they ship phones like the G2 that fall apart? Or that they ship 4 phones within two months that can't use GPS properly? SE's biggest problem is the in-call volume on certain phones is low and the Android version it's running is 1.6. There have been scattered reports of USB ports breaking, (probably more than G2's that are falling apart), and some issues that affect nearly all GSM/3G phones, namely APN and Network settings.

xeviro said:
If Android is not accepting 3rd party UI, then i throw Android away.
Having many selection that differentiate you and the other, that is the beauty of it man. One of the major turn off of iPhone for me is there is only single product, none offers with keyboard, same color, the UI is also is all the same. Like there is no difference between my iPhone and everyone's iPhone.
And i think the future of UXP is very bright compared to other Android device. When you pick up Samsung Galaxy S and play it side by side with your X10, you will know immediately which one is better.
Anyway, the point is full experience customization is a really wonderful thing to have.
That's why i choose to buy X10 and still prefer to use it even though its still 1.6. In my office desk i have a lot of other Android phone i can take for personal usage. Nexus One, Motorola Milestone and also Samsung Galaxy Spica, LG GW 620.
Most of them are faster and better then X10 in term of speed and because of Froyo, but whenever i take one home, i end up using X10 instead.
So conclusion its SE DEV fault that the update is delayed, but full 3rd party customization is the best thing you can have in your smartphone.
Hell, my friend is keep on whining that his iPhone doesn't have Swype and also complains about iPhone keyboard auto-correct, while i can install any onscreen keyboard for Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SE added UI is what has killed the X10. So if you are asking SE to listened to you they would go out of business within a few short years. As of today the iphone4 is the best device on the market exactly for the reason that the are no 3rd party skins. I am not saying that this will be the case tomorrow. But as of today right now it is.
Timescape is a marketing ploy with little to no user interface. And, because of it you can not get support for full flash capabilities; 2.2 native is 1000 times better. On the other hand I like Media scape. But that is just because I own my own media files. Is Media scape really that much better than native? Or is it that much better than third party soft you could find on your own in Android market or, something user created here in XDA; that is if the X10 was really an open platform? A software that would not prevent your device getting the latest OS the day it is released. SE's entire objective it to offer you their skins that will lead you to their OEM created after market for media (just like apple). However, there are only a dozen movies, games, and songs to download there. At least with iphone4 you have itunes. How could you possibly want that? That is pure madness man. And, you said "Anyway, the point is full experience customization is a really wonderful thing to have." Where is the full customization in the X10? The X10 is locked down with little to no customization. It is a joke and I just laugh harder when people keeping mistakenly claim that this device is anything but a closed platform.
I like competition that comes from a free market system as much as the next guy. But SE are adding their UI's to remove that competition, not to add to it. And, X10 users are guinea pigs whilst they work out the details. It has a long way to go. And, why make their current customers suffer before they have their market in place? They are still trying to negotiate with the entertainment industry for goodness sake. It is a long , long way off mate. So, if you think you are getting some kind of magical benefit from SE skins you need to have your head examined.
There would be plenty to distinguish one device from the next without OEM added non-sense. Besides hardware (which SE also do not manufacture themselves), there is Android market. OEM's that want to stand out for the right reasons will need to start being true manufacturers and not simply some design company slapping together the same pieces of plastic everyone else is using and than adding some cheap skins that either don't even work right, or are simply a gimmick.
All these things that people use to criticize Apple for are what most users are really getting in non-apple phones. You are getting screwed by SE and lack the understand to even know that it is happening. I find that comical.

iead1 said:
"The wealth of information was leaked by Mobile-review.com’s Eldar Murtazin in his Russian language/locale podcast "Digestiv.""
While the guy has a good track record, anything said about a non-existent OS can't be taken as fact.
Also, you seem to be the only person brutally raped by the X10 that, for some reason, keeps asking for more, soapfree. I don't understand why you post repeatedly about an OS and phone you claim to hate so much.
SE's UI is just a slap of blue over stock Android, with some widgets. Then you go and blame them when they want to make sure their update is bug-free (as it can be)? Would you rather they ship phones like the G2 that fall apart? Or that they ship 4 phones within two months that can't use GPS properly? SE's biggest problem is the in-call volume on certain phones is low and the Android version it's running is 1.6. There have been scattered reports of USB ports breaking, (probably more than G2's that are falling apart), and some issues that affect nearly all GSM/3G phones, namely APN and Network settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because you make a claim here in your post that the only thing bugging on the X10 is call volume does not make it so. There are plenty of bugs in this phone. SE added UI skins being the biggest one driving away customer right now. And, a whole host of others. But this thread is not about the X10's call volume, or screen lag, or battery life, or wifi, or any other bug. It is about the UXP, SE -vs- native, so let's try to stay on point. But if you want to start a thread about X10 bugs I would be happy ot contribute

iead1 said:
SE's UI is just a slap of blue over stock Android, with some widgets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am quoting you twice because I would like to put this into perspective.
Xerviro says if if there are no OEM UI skins he would chuck the phone in the trash. You say the UI's are simply color schemes!
Why don't you both simply consider the iphone4 a different option with a different color scheme. Only one other difference. Theirs has itunes market and no 3rd party added UI skins getting in the way of updates whilst Android come out with a new OS every other week.
try to be at least remotely objective. Or, at least try to appear so.

UI = User Interface
"In computer science and human-computer interaction, the user interface (of a computer program) refers to the graphical, textual and auditory information the program presents to the user, and the control sequences (such as keystrokes with the computer keyboard, movements of the computer mouse, and selections with the touchscreen) the user employs to control the program."
The UI is the menu system, the home screen, app drawer, notification bar, ect.
You're talking more about Widgets and Apps like Timescape and Mediascape. There's a deliniating line. HTC's Sense and Samsung's Touchwiz are UIs because they take over how you interact with the phone. Timescape and Mediascape don't add anything to the basic User Interface. That is to say, if you removed them, the phone would act exactly the same. SE has failed miserably in making Timescape a UI. (Like the fact that the Timescape interface is not default when you turn on the phone).
Also, I want evidence of a new Android OS every other week. So far, in 2010, we've received minor OS updates 2.1, 2.2, and 2.2.1. Not exactly "every other week", or Operating Systems, seeing as we're currently in October. Edit: In comparison, Apple has released more firmware updates, and has it's flagship product still running on a version released over a year ago.

DailyTech said:
Another drastic change in Android 3.0 is that Google is killing off third-party user interface shells like Motorblur and HTC Sense, by offering a faster, superior alternative. The new built-in UI is reportedly similar to that seen in the Gallery app in this clip, with fluid animations and a photobook sort of feel to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I understand it and as another article (i can't remember where) says, Gingerbread doesn't prohibit third-party UI's, it just offers a UI which in their opinion makes them unnecessary. IF a phone company decides to change the UI nonetheless, it can still do it. How would you ban third-party UI's anyway since Android is completely Open Source?!
Edit: ah, here is the article i mentioned: http://www.intomobile.com/2010/06/16/android-to-focus-on-user-experience-with-gingerbread/

Android coming out with OS updates every few weeks has certainly put front and center some issues. I appreciate they are trying to get improvements of their product to the customers as quickly as possible. That is great service. What the end users are experience as a result of their improvments is simply high lighting a problem that has been around longer than they have.
And, that is the OEM UI skins. Which tend to be a gimmick that are not improving the over all customer experience in the slightest. This problem will most likely be less obvious next year when Android slow down the number of revisions they issue. However, unless something is done to block OEM UI add-ons it will continue to be a problem. People will always be frustraited waiting for OS revision and new features whilst the OEM's get their UI's to run smoothly with the next OS. By the way none of which is open source. It is all propriatary in nature.
This entire problem is created by the companies that have partnered with Google to support Android. And, SE is the worst offender. X10 customers are unfortunetly experiencing the most extreme case of this issue.
Until either Gingerbread, a newer Maemo, or winmo7 come out the safest device to own right now is the iphone4 to avoid these issues and the problems that come with it. It either has every single feature available in every our device on the market or offers a fair alternative. Without 3rd party add-ons deminishing the over all user experience. Come summer 2011 maybe this will no longer be true. But as things stand right now Android stink, for no fault of their own.

qwer23 said:
How would you ban third-party UI's anyway since Android is completely Open Source?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They would do it contractually. Open source is meant to be open source to the end user. And, not for the OEM to close with ridiculous UI's that offer no real end user benefits. The X10 is Android and it is NOT open source. So as things stands such much for the open source arguement.
I saw what you are saying about the android created UI's too. We can only hope. But as things are now Android will go out of business. Driven there by their own partners who were supporting their plat form.

fm1776 said:
Android coming out with OS updates every few weeks has certainly put front and center some issues. I appreciate they are trying to get improvements of their product to the customers as quickly as possible. That is great service. What the end users are experience as a result of their improvments is simply high lighting a problem that has been around longer than they have.
And, that is the OEM UI skins. Which tend to be a gimmick that are not improving the over all customer experience in the slightest. This problem will most likely be less obvious next year when Android slow down the number of revisions they issue. However, unless something is done to block OEM UI add-ons it will continue to be a problem. People will always be frustraited waiting for OS revision and new features whilst the OEM's get their UI's to run smoothly with the next OS. By the way none of which is open source. It is all propriatary in nature.
This entire problem is created by the companies that have partnered with Google to support Android. And, SE is the worst offender. X10 customers are unfortunetly experiencing the most extreme case of this issue.
Until either Gingerbread, a newer Maemo, or winmo7 come out the safest device to own right now is the iphone4 to avoid these issues and the problems that come with it. It either has every single feature available in every our device on the market or offers a fair alternative. Without 3rd party add-ons deminishing the over all user experience. Come summer 2011 maybe this will no longer be true. But as things stand right now Android stink, for no fault of their own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're the wordiest troll ever.
2010:
Android version 2.1 - January 12
Android version 2.2 - May 20
Android version 2.2.1 - October 1
Please, please, please tell me how five month gaps qualify as "a few weeks". Not to mention 2.2.1 is just bug fixes.
What is proprietary? The OEM's UI? Well no duh! If HTC's Sense UI was Open Source, anyone could download it to their Android phone, and thus, defeat the purpose of selling phones based on uniqueness.
I really don't understand what your argument is here. Do you hate customization? Do you love customization? Do you hate open source? Windows Phone 7 and iOS4 seem to be up your alley. Leave Android to the people who like to tinker around.

fm1776 said:
They would do it contractually. Open source is meant to be open source to the end user. And, not for the OEM to close with ridiculous UI's that offer no real end user benefits. The X10 is Android and it is NOT open source. So as things stands such much for the open source arguement.
I saw what you are saying about the android created UI's too. We can only hope. But as things are now Android will go out of business. Driven there by their own partners who were supporting their plat form.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know the meaning of any word that you post on here?
Open Source has nothing to do with the end user in this case. Please educate yourself: http://arstechnica.com/old/content/...se-the-apache-software-license-over-gplv2.ars

iead1 said:
You're the wordiest troll ever.
2010:
Android version 2.1 - January 12
Android version 2.2 - May 20
Android version 2.2.1 - October 1
Please, please, please tell me how five month gaps qualify as "a few weeks". Not to mention 2.2.1 is just bug fixes.
What is proprietary? The OEM's UI? Well no duh! If HTC's Sense UI was Open Source, anyone could download it to their Android phone, and thus, defeat the purpose of selling phones based on uniqueness.
I really don't understand what your argument is here. Do you hate customization? Do you love customization? Do you hate open source? Windows Phone 7 and iOS4 seem to be up your alley. Leave Android to the people who like to tinker around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trolling is what you are doing on this thread.
Obviously I was exaggerating the the number of updates to high light the point; but you already know that. So no need to comment on your flaming.
When SE closed Android 1.6 they made it proprietary. Hence it is no longer open source. That means it is CLOSED and no different from winmo or ios.
Since the X10 is C.L.O.S.E.D and N.O.T open there is little to nothing customizable about it. Absolutely ZERO difference with an iphone4. Except at least with an apple you have itunes and the latest OS and features. With the X10 you have to deal with the interference from yhe OEM add-ons that accomplish nothing more than you could have already gotten from native android. And, you do not have the latest feature which the X10 does not support.

iead1 said:
Do you know the meaning of any word that you post on here?
Open Source has nothing to do with the end user in this case. Please educate yourself: http://arstechnica.com/old/content/...se-the-apache-software-license-over-gplv2.ars
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The article you are included is absolutely correct. However, open source for software developement is not what I am speaking about and is a completely moot point as this is a total seperate topic.
Though, I think this could be a good topic for you to start in your own thread. I would be happy to contribute to this topic as well.

fm1776 said:
Since the X10 is C.L.O.S.E.D and N.O.T open there is little to nothing customizable about it. Absolutely ZERO difference with an iphone4. Except at least with an apple you have itunes and the latest OS and features. With the X10 you have to deal with the interference from yhe OEM add-ons that accomplish nothing more than you could have already gotten from native android. And, you do not have the latest feature which the X10 does not support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So changing the entire home screen interface is "not customizable"? Adding any widget you can think is "not customizable"? Changing the on-screen keyboard to be anything you like is "not customizable"? Changing the lock screen is "not customizable"? Changing the default program for anything is "not customizable"? Can you do any of that with an iPhone? The only customization you get on the iPhone is wallpaper.
Hell, I have an iPod touch, and I'm artificially not allowed to update to the latest firmware. The internals in the first gen touch, first gen iPhone, iPhone 3G, and second gen iPod touch are all the same. Apple just says "Sorry, buy a new iPod".
Every commercial Android product is "closed", because the OEMs have added their own value-add to the base code to market it to consumers.
I'm trying really hard to play nice, but, when you say such silly things, it's really really difficult.

iead1 said:
Please, please, please tell me how five month gaps qualify as "a few weeks". .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I already stated I was simply exaggerating to express a point. This point hand absolutely nothing to do with a specific time line on Androids side.
But since you bring it up, let me explain my same point in your own terminology.
Android come out with an update every five months. But it take SE 12 month's or more to engineer their UI skins to the newer OS before it is released to the end user. And, this isn't even counting any extra time certain service providers might want to add their bit.
Well you and I just explained the exact same thing two different ways. So thank you for helping me make my point. I still think I already made it on my own, but thank you just the same.
Edit- Customization is the ability to first change the devices behavior. My X1 is by far more customizable than the X10. Heck my P910 was more "customizable" than the X10

Have to agree with iead.. Although I have no real experience of winmo, android on the x10 is massively more customizable than ios. There really is no comparison on this point they're so far apart..
Sent from my x10 using XDA and swype.

im_iceman said:
Have to agree with iead.. Although I have no real experience of winmo, android on the x10 is massively more customizable than ios. There really is no comparison on this point they're so far apart..
Sent from my x10 using XDA and swype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, first let me say that my thread is about 3rd party UI's -vs- native android. So if we could start to return to the subject it would be appreciated.
As for your comment. I am listening to how you precieve the X10 as being more customizable than any other device. You mentioned ios, Please tell us what you find less or more customizable about either, feel free to be absolutely specific? Oh yeah and which model you had?
As for everyone else could you please get back on topic. If there is demand for the customization iead could start that topic too. I will happily come contribute.

Is Android fragmented, and why should this EVO owner care?

Everytime I read mobile.engadget or any gadget site for that matter, I see posts "dogging" the Android operating system about how they are fragmented and certain apps/games won't work for older OS's/devices. Our EVOs have been out for almost 6 months now and this phone is still rock solid IMO but I wonder how fragmented (if at all) this OS is and what that means for this phone and future android devices. I'm literally asking cause I have no idea. And also what the heck is fragmented actually mean, cause all I get out of this is that the older Android devices just can't run the app or game because of the older/slower specs not necessarily because of the OS.

It would help if you posted the link. When you say fragmented, I would guess that this means that Android Users are divided between those that can run an application on said device and those that can't.
This is not any different that using M$ OS's as well. Not all applications will run on older Operating Systems. This is partly due to Hardware upgrades and partly due to marketing. If all software were reverse compatible then people would be less likely to upgrade their devices. Also the list of Drivers would get longer and longer as the Android Developers add phones to their database.
Apple only has what, 4 phones and 2 or 3 Ipod Touch's? And realistically most of the people that own these would have the 3rd or 4th Gen. Phone anyways. I think the "fragmentation" problem will exist on no matter what platform OS you are using, its just that Android is on sooooo many devices now ranging from Phones/TV and now its going into cars. It wouldn't surprise me to see it on X-box since they like to run Linux code.
So yeah.... Long story short its due to all of the different devices and the fact that no one keeps electronics for any length of time but IMHO Android will start to get a lot more life out of their electronics since the software is upgradeable like on a PC.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. We saw the same thing in the computer desktop arena. At one point you had Windows 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, Win95, WinNT, and Win98 all running around at the same time. Going back even further all the different flavors of DOS. The PC industry survived so will Android. Eventually you will have to upgrade so fragmentation is pretty much a moot point. IMHO

My guess would be because there are phones running multiple versions of the OS such as 1.6/2.1/2.2. Some apps such as task killers will work on 1.6 and 2.1 but not 2.2+. Game compatibility seems more reliant on what that particular phone is capable of. Our phones can handle just about any game available whereas a G1 or MT3G is far more limited.
Sent from my HTC SUPERSONIC

Fragmentation refers to the fact that there are so many different versions of android the app developers have to code for. With the Iphone for example most everyone is at version 4.1 or 4.2. Android devices are being released with 1.5, 1.6, 2.1, 2.2 and soon 2.3. It makes it extremely hard to code and optimize apps across all versions. I foresee this has having no negative effects on our beloved EVO's for though.

People like to point out the fact that there are multiple android devices, and not all of them are on the newest os (like some of the sgs phones not having froyo, or the moment, or hero for example). unlike the iphone, where there is only one device of each generation, and when the update is released, everyone can get it.
My take on this is I like variety, just because I like my Evo doesn't mean it suits everyone. Just like there are a ton of people that consider a hardware keyboard a must have, yet I would rather not have one. Having to wait for HTC and Sprint to release the newest version to my phone, or wait for one of the amazing developers contributing their hard work and skill to port it for use is just fine with me. Would it be nice to get it the moment google pushes it out, probably, however I can almost bet that the Nexus line will always get first crack anyway. This is just my two cents, I hope the explanation helps.
Sent from my HTC SuperSonic 4G using the XDA app.

Brutal-Force said:
It would help if you posted the link. When you say fragmented, I would guess that this means that Android Users are divided between those that can run an application on said device and those that can't.
This is not any different that using M$ OS's as well. Not all applications will run on older Operating Systems. This is partly due to Hardware upgrades and partly due to marketing. If all software were reverse compatible then people would be less likely to upgrade their devices. Also the list of Drivers would get longer and longer as the Android Developers add phones to their database.
Apple only has what, 4 phones and 2 or 3 Ipod Touch's? And realistically most of the people that own these would have the 3rd or 4th Gen. Phone anyways. I think the "fragmentation" problem will exist on no matter what platform OS you are using, its just that Android is on sooooo many devices now ranging from Phones/TV and now its going into cars. It wouldn't surprise me to see it on X-box since they like to run Linux code.
So yeah.... Long story short its due to all of the different devices and the fact that no one keeps electronics for any length of time but IMHO Android will start to get a lot more life out of their electronics since the software is upgradeable like on a PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One example of many if you google...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/entelligence-will-android-fragmentation-destroy-the-platform/
Yeah I'm not smart enough to know if this would effect our phones or not, but who really knows as of right now? Why doesn't Android just do what MS did and make a standard for what the manufacturers need to build in order for it to be up to par for Android (for once MS did something right in that regard IMO). Is that what Honeycomb is suppose to accomplish, a minimal spec sheet for manufacturers?

My two cents:
I think the "fragmentation" issue is primarily software related and is the fault of the manufacturers and service providers. That said, I think the most important issue is whether the fragmentation discourages developers from creating apps for Android.
As hardware and software advances there will always be features that will work on some phones and not work on others. This occurs with the iPhone too and is no surprise, however, Apple still rolls out new OS's to all phones so that the vast majority of users are on the same platform.
While Google has been releasing two versions of Android per year, it is the manufacturers and service providers who decide whether or not to roll out the updates and that seems to be a crapshoot. Since the manufacturers are not just tolling out vanilla Android, instead choosing to overlay their own UI on top (e.g. Touchwiz or Sense UI), this would require effort on their part to rework their UI to keep up with Android updates. And, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't... So, even though you have hardware in circulation perfectly capable of running newer versions of Android they don't because the manufacturers don't allow it.
I think most people would agree the number of quality apps in the iTunes store far exceeds the number of quality apps in the Android Market. However, Android has been outselling the iPhone for almost a year now. The question is: Is it the "fragmentation" keeping developers from porting their apps to Android? Or, is it something else? If it IS the fragmentation then I AM worried. I think 2011 is an important year for Android and I remain optimistic the Apps will come. It'll be interesting if they don't...
To Be Continued...

the evil fragmentation comes from low-end android phones also some developers not properly coding

Beejis said:
One example of many if you google...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/entelligence-will-android-fragmentation-destroy-the-platform/
Yeah I'm not smart enough to know if this would effect our phones or not, but who really knows as of right now? Why doesn't Android just do what MS did and make a standard for what the manufacturers need to build in order for it to be up to par for Android (for once MS did something right in that regard IMO). Is that what Honeycomb is suppose to accomplish, a minimal spec sheet for manufacturers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
simple to answer i think, here's the thing, not every phone is going to be the same, just like not every carrier is the same, what i mean is that each manufacturer is going to have their own set of hardware and specs to follow, thus giving them an option to best choose the Android version that best suits the phone they are building.
Engadget is a huge iEverything fan, so they will help bash android and google just as much as Mr. duschbag, sorry i meant Job's, but you get the point, after all it was Jobs that first coined the whole android is fragmented war, however someone correct me if i'm wrong.
Besides if manufacturer were to listen to android about having a set standard then we might as well also be referred to as Apple, but since we're not under the dictatorship of Stevie, we don't have to worry about that.

Android fragmentation deals with both software and hardware.
Software-wise you have different phones having different Android versions -- OEMs seem to only support their phones for a year, sometimes even less, and sometimes not at all after it's release. You already see this problem with 1.6 vs 2.0 vs 2.1 vs 2.2; and as soon as Gingerbread appears you'll be seeing a sudden split between Android version share. This causes problems for developers because each Android version supports varying API levels, so some phones are inevitably left behind by developers.
Hardware-wise you have a lot of phones that are very different. You can have two phones of the same Android version and you'll still see app incompatibilities. Different CPUs, GPUs, cameras, etc., causes developers to work extra hard to make them all work; this sometimes leads them to drop support for some either because of the extra work it would take or because the hardware is just two low end. This is especially true with games and a reason why I think iOS/WP7 will be the leading mobile gaming platforms in a couple of years.
A lot of people think that Android Market will suddenly become the best once Android's market share inevitably over runs iOS; and I personally think it wont because of fragmentation. I don't think people understand just how expensive it is to develop and design an app that is of the top ~10% iOS quality -- it's in the 100's of thousands. Supporting Android is just that much more difficult for developers. Then there's the fact that a lot of the increasing market share is coming from low end phones which: 1) will probably suffer the worse from the fragmentation problem (incompatibilities with apps), and 2) would most likely not even invest into many paid apps anyway.

Beejis said:
One example of many if you google...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/entelligence-will-android-fragmentation-destroy-the-platform/
Yeah I'm not smart enough to know if this would effect our phones or not, but who really knows as of right now? Why doesn't Android just do what MS did and make a standard for what the manufacturers need to build in order for it to be up to par for Android (for once MS did something right in that regard IMO). Is that what Honeycomb is suppose to accomplish, a minimal spec sheet for manufacturers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel did it, M$ did it, AMD did it, Nvidia did it and Apple is doing it now. The reason we use Android is so that Corporations don't MAKE us do it. Also, companies like M$, Intel and Nvidia have been pulled into court for things like this. In the end, they "open" back up, because thats what people want.

Brutal-Force said:
Intel did it, M$ did it, AMD did it, Nvidia did it and Apple is doing it now. The reason we use Android is so that Corporations don't MAKE us do it. Also, companies like M$, Intel and Nvidia have been pulled into court for things like this. In the end, they "open" back up, because thats what people want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People want open? Really? People just want good phones.

Best example....
Most people upgrade their phones every two years. So it won't really matter so long in those two years we get at least one upgrade.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

novanosis85 said:
Best example....
Most people upgrade their phones every two years. So it won't really matter so long in those two years we get at least one upgrade.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you'd be okay rocking a 1.6 phone right now and for maybe another year?

This may have been an issue a year ago but if you check this link:
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html
you can see that 77% of android devices are 2.1 and 2.2. Newer versions of the OS will hopefully decouple software updates from the actual service carrier and phone manufacturer, increasing this percentage even further.
Google makes available many guides for deploying your application and being able to support across all versions. Also, the sdk easily allows you to target the newest version and features while still maintaining portability to older OS versions.
Basically, unless you are developing some crazy cutting edge application then 'fragmentation' is not an issue, hardware or software. Using that as a dividing factor with regards to gauging the success of the operating system is by now a stretch from the truth.

elegantai said:
This may have been an issue a year ago but if you check this link:
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html
you can see that 77% of android devices are 2.1 and 2.2. Newer versions of the OS will hopefully decouple software updates from the actual service carrier and phone manufacturer, increasing this percentage even further.
Google makes available many guides for deploying your application and being able to support across all versions. Also, the sdk easily allows you to target the newest version and features while still maintaining portability to older OS versions.
Basically, unless you are developing some crazy cutting edge application then 'fragmentation' is not an issue, hardware or software. Using that as a dividing factor with regards to gauging the success of the operating system is by now a stretch from the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd argue that the large share of 2.1/2.2 devices is due to the fact that Android has finally gotten popular and sales of current devices has really picked up. So a majority of phones are currently newer 2.x devices. Lets see how this is once 2.3 is released and OEMs fail to keep them up to date just as how it has been in the past.

That is one possibility, but if you look at the bottom of that page there is a stacked line graph representing the historical distribution over the past 6 months.
If you look at version 2.1 and compare its slope to 1.5/1.6 you can see that the older versions follow the same slope as the 2.1 slope, meaning that 2.1 phones were actually replacing physical phones running 1.5 and 1.6.
If you look at when 2.2 takes a steep upward slope you will not notice the same pattern of 2.1 and older following the slope of 2.2, which tells me that more people upgraded from 2.1 to 2.2.
So if this pattern holds, then hopefully it means phone manufactures are starting to realize the importance of providing newer operating systems for their devices. But as you said, we will see!

It's fragmented, but people wouldn't care if all the apps worked across all versions. That's really the only problem.
The average person does not care how many mflops their device scores in linpack or what their quadrant score is, they just want to play Angry Birds, and their phone they bought last year can't, and they aren't able to upgrade yet.

clamknuckle said:
The average person does not care how many mflops their device scores in linpack or what their quadrant score is, they just want to play Angry Birds, and their phone they bought last year can't, and they aren't able to upgrade yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
10char.

A Rant: Anroid, Get your Shiz Together!

This is what I type at 3 in the morning. Please read for a minute, I'll keep it short and get to the point. I feel NS owners should see this since they seem the most enthusiastic.
This is generally for Android as a whole, targeting Google. Wow, so it's been how many years since Android first came out? And what is the only other competitor in the market - oh right, iOS. iOS has been destroying the market with only one phone which rarely has any lag/bug/glitch issues, namely the 4S or the new 5 (minus the Maps).
The only reason Android has a large market share is due to the large number of phones at reasonable prices. That is all. There are only two competitors in this oligarchy, and one still can't do it right. Google engineers are apparently among the highest paid, yet they decide to constantly release updates which constantly has bugs. It is a pity, to look at many of you Android enthusiasts that are giving a lot of attention to Android development and are contributing to this world, when Google themselves is not treating you right, thus I feel that you are the reason that the brand is remaining strong. You guys have the capacity to overlook its bugs/lags and see what Android is there truly for. On the other hand, I doubt iOS users actually care about that topic since it is rarely seen.
Next, the phones. So we have like a thousand phones running Android from like 20 different manufacturers. What the..? Alright, phones that are aimed for a low budget do not count, but the Nexus devices that Google works on - they should be at least revolutionary. Google has to partner up with different manufacturers each time when creating the next Nexus? Talk about inconsistency, and inviting a lack of hardware acceleration with its software. Google can even build their own phones if they have to, but just get it right! I mean their latest phone, the Galaxy Nexus, is still not a stable phone (although I thought it would be). Samsung is actually holding it down and implementing their own stuff to create a good user experience (thus the success of the Galaxy line). Other than that, ALL other manufacturers are literally wasting money (but producing profits) by adopting Android and Google themselves are getting much more love than they should be getting.
Creating new updates and naming them after the alphabet and weird food names is quite cheesy. That's not the issue though, it creates hype by many users - the anxiety of waiting for the next update that will 'fix all problems' - but what happens? Promises are broken, and the software is bad once again. Like the JB update - turns out it's bad and many/most users tend to agree. So much for project butter haha. It's simply not worth it, not worth stressing or wasting time on it. I realize I am doing that by typing this post, but it needed to be done. People who are making money off of it - you're fine actually.
The message I am trying to get across is that Google's android software is not worth it, we all know it's bad, and Google seriously needs to get it right before everyone hops on the iBoat. There are actually multiple little things that I tried to get across in the post. That is all.

Cool story. Feel free to jump on the iOS wagon. I, for one, really like android.

I'm with android for the customization and freedom. I came from Windows Mobile where you could change anything you wanted and fell in love with flashing custom ROMS and even had a duel boot of WM6 and android 1.0 when I first came out (hated it back then, by the way.)
I bought an iPhone 3g when they came out and sold it by the next day. As you said, it was "flawless" as far as the operation of the OS, but when the OS imposes so much control over user input what do you expect? The iPhone tells you what you're allowed to do, it's not the user that defines what the phone can do.
After dropping my Tilt 2 flat on its face and tearing the ribbon for the screen, I hit the market for a new phone. Windows Mobile was still in the hundreds, but android was a cheaper alternative. I got a Samsung Moment and never looked back.
Maybe coming from Windows Mobile to android is why I don't have as many bug complaints. WM was mostly ALL bugs and glitches. That's not why I had the phone though - I had it for the features. Namely the ability to tether, which took android AND apple several releases to incorporate into their builds, but which was plug-n-play on every WM device I owned YEARS before. I also really enjoyed Windows Voice Command, better recognized as the Sync system in Ford vehicles. I could wear my bluetooth headset and make calls, open programs, listen to music and change songs all without having to touch the phone. Once again, it took apple and Google several editions to add useful voice commands to their systems.
I still miss remote desktop. I stopped having to store music and movies on my device because I could open a program and directly access every file on my home computer and stream anything to my phone screen.
So ultimately I'm with android for the freedom. The openness. The fact that they ALLOW outside developers to exist at all! It's the creativity found in the android community that has kept me, not the hope for a "fix all" update. Personally, the only problem I've ever had with my Android phones is the actual phone app itself. Delayed ringing and sometimes the inability to answer to even slide and answer the call due to screen freezing.
That's MY rant at 5 am lol
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda app-developers app

I'll have a Lamborghini Gallardo, Olivia Wilde and a cherry Coke, while we're at it (dreaming).

When you buy a new phone it should be completely yours not locked down by the manufacturer. If I want to brick I want to be able to do it.
If you really don't like it there a lot of rotten apple phones out there for you to buy.

anyway, I was on stock JB for a while, I haven't encountered all this **** your talking about. It could be faster, nicer, with more options but it is working quite well
Envoyé depuis mon Nexus S avec Tapatalk

Go get lost. Steve Job is waiting there to pay you for this iPhone advertisements in an android thread. You are required there not here. Lol....
Sent from my Nexus S

madd0g said:
I'll have a Lamborghini Gallardo, Olivia Wilde and a cherry Coke, while we're at it (dreaming).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scratch that lambo make it an Aston Martin Vantage V12. Regarding the other two: Plenty of cherry coke around, but we're gonna have a problem with Olivia: I won't share, no crossing swords!

I love when people try to tell me how I should feel about the products I enjoy.

Logomotph said:
Cool story. Feel free to jump on the iOS wagon. I, for one, really like android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know right?
madd0g said:
I'll have a Lamborghini Gallardo, Olivia Wilde and a cherry Coke, while we're at it (dreaming).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I get that with no cholesterol burger and fries?
p.pavljasevic said:
When you buy a new phone it should be completely yours not locked down by the manufacturer. If I want to brick I want to be able to do it.
If you really don't like it there a lot of rotten apple phones out there for you to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've said this before. I hate when companies wanna slap their branding all over my 4 to 600 dollar smartphone and load it up with their crap I am never gonna use.
styckx said:
I love when people try to tell me how I should feel about the products I enjoy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My best friend is a iPhone fanboy. I have to show him once a month why my Nexus S 4G is better then his iPhone 4s.

to each his own, i don't mind jb's quirkyness, it's also a matter of finding just the right rom/kernel combo... can't speak for stock JB.
aokp JB 4 + marmite 4.8.7 is doing quite nice, steady & haven't had weird reboots yet

I will admit that the Nexus S has a hard time with stock Jelly Bean. It pushes the NS basically to its limits in terms of hardware capability. That said, as a daily driver, it's still very, very usable. If you want to see Jelly Bean run like a f**king champ, run it on a Galaxy Nexus or Nexus 7. It's pretty amazing.

Okay I'm not favouring iOS or anything and no I'm not jumping on their wagon, and I am also not hating on Android's customization/community. I've had my Nexus S for almost 1.5 years now and I still believe it's not outdated (great camera, front-facing camera, good screen, good touch sensor)
I appreciate that Android lets its customers customize the phones more than Apple. But what about the 'majority' who don't root or install 3rd party keyboards, etc. and like to run stock? I for one am running stock and native since I believe it should give the best performance as it is made by the manufacturer. But I'm not getting that! There are the red flags going off.
Additionally, when I was referring to iOS, I mean to say mainly iPhone 4 and up. The iPhone 3 was quite bad (although still better than android at that point in time). But with iOS 5/6, sure it takes away user customization, but the majority does not anyway - they just use their phone for their intended purposes and yet experience difficulties? That's a no no. However, ONE thing I do enjoy is widgets over having iOS.

Plenty of people dont run stock as per your definition. Plenty of people use or at least tried different keyboards / launchers / messaging apps etc
Root is not required and installing those apps is no different then installing any other app like Pandora. They are also often editors choice and top selling / top free apps in the play store. People know about them and use them. You don't need a to be a hardcore user to know about and use them.
People actually do change up there apps all the time and on all platforms. Its like saying people with a iPhone shouldn't use instagram because the phone comes with a camera application out the box.
Bottom line is if the user has a option to try different apps they will. Especially if its easy for the average user to install like a normal app. Imagine for a second if winterboard was freely available in the app store and functioned the same way it does on a jail broken device. I'd bet within 24 hrs it would become the most popular app in the app store. Your argument just seems silly to me. People will and do change things are freely and easily changed

albundy2010 said:
Plenty of people dont run stock as per your definition. Plenty of people use or at least tried different keyboards / launchers / messaging apps etc
Root is not required and installing those apps is no different then installing any other app like Pandora. They are also often editors choice and top selling / top free apps in the play store. People know about them and use them. You don't need a to be a hardcore user to know about and use them.
People actually do change up there apps all the time and on all platforms. Its like saying people with a iPhone shouldn't use instagram because the phone comes with a camera application out the box.
Bottom line is if the user has a option to try different apps they will. Especially if its easy for the average user to install like a normal app. Imagine for a second if winterboard was freely available in the app store and functioned the same way it does on a jail broken device. I'd bet within 24 hrs it would become the most popular app in the app store. Your argument just seems silly to me. People will and do change things are freely and easily changed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wonderfully said.

Another tiny bit to add on to my previous point.
The focal point of apples marketing strategy used to be " there is a app for that". Of course this is after they decided to even include a store. Who can forget the air traffic controller getting the weather from his iPhone?
But this doesn't seem to apply to things apple thinks its users shouldn't change.

What are you going to use your nexus to do as you write it has a hard time using jelly bean? - I my self have not got complications - I think I have used jelly bean nearly from when it was free - and I for my part - find it fast and free from lack - it play film - I read a lot news on it - it is very nice to read ebooks - see tv - you name it - ok - I do not use it for play - as all play for me are more or less the same - but ells I injoy jelly bean on my nexus s
Sent from my Nexus S using xda app-developers app

albundy2010 said:
Plenty of people dont run stock as per your definition. Plenty of people use or at least tried different keyboards / launchers / messaging apps etc
Root is not required and installing those apps is no different then installing any other app like Pandora. They are also often editors choice and top selling / top free apps in the play store. People know about them and use them. You don't need a to be a hardcore user to know about and use them.
People actually do change up there apps all the time and on all platforms. Its like saying people with a iPhone shouldn't use instagram because the phone comes with a camera application out the box.
Bottom line is if the user has a option to try different apps they will. Especially if its easy for the average user to install like a normal app. Imagine for a second if winterboard was freely available in the app store and functioned the same way it does on a jail broken device. I'd bet within 24 hrs it would become the most popular app in the app store. Your argument just seems silly to me. People will and do change things are freely and easily changed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand, you're going off on apps when I am not talking about customization. I am just talking about the performance of the phone and the bugs it has. Let me be specific - as I unlock my phone, i swipe through home screens = lag. I open my camera, it takes a while at times = lag. I scroll through a list, and it lags on me. Even though it is minuscule Google needs to clean it up, since I never see it on an iOS device which is a fair comparison as it is the leading competitor.
I am not talking about apps or anything, I think we and everyone has already established that it has more customization. I know most users have 'tried' some customizable app that is not available to iOS but that is no excuse for the actual performance bugs it has. I don't play games (like rarely maybe) on the phone and don't have a huge load of apps installed either. Things just aren't nifty..and it is taking them years to get it right but they'd rather focus on other feature additions which also work poorly.

You are the one who brought up that entire what about the majority of the people out there that don't run third party keyboards etc.
You brought it up. I said it was rubbish.
Android has always been laggy compared to iOS. Apple did a good job with that from the beginning.
The majority of your op is simply not worthy of responding to. Actually I re read it just now and I consider it all entirely flame bait/ trolling. You joined the forum 3 days prior to that as well. Not bothering with that type of silly debate/flaming.
Your 2nd post in the thread actually had something I felt was worth giving a legit response to.

It can be due to Google not paying enough attention to this device, however, I urge you to try new phones like the Nexus and this upcoming LG Nexus. For me, Jelly Bean have been smooth all the way through. Lag is inevitable on this device due to its old single core cpu.
We are atleast fortunate to retain nearly all the features from the latest Android version, Apple withheld features from old phones on purpose so you have to buy their newest and most expensive device.

Jolla Sailfish OS on GS3

In case you haven't seen it...
http://m.gsmarena.com/jolla_sailfish_os_detailed_demoed_on_video-news-5104.php
Looks really good, anyone wanna work on a port for our lovely gs3?

Hmmm...doesn't seem to have generated any interest yet...
In an interview with the CEO of Jolla, the interviewer asked if he could put this on his GS3, the CEO replied "Enabling Sailfish for a device such as Galaxy S3 is something that any community member could already do."
The SDK is released online here (I believe)
Unfortunately, I have no technical expertise in this area, is anyone else interested?

Could this be better than Jellybean?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

brew182 said:
In case you haven't seen it...
http://m.gsmarena.com/jolla_sailfish_os_detailed_demoed_on_video-news-5104.php
Looks really good, anyone wanna work on a port for our lovely gs3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd love to play around with it. The Ambiance feature looks really really cool.
A port form a different OS would only be good for the community However, I have no skills in developing or porting so I can't help except perhaps a small donation to whomever gets it done.

Same here, looks fun but no idea how to do it

I want! Looks awesome!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

This have to be done! I really want sailfish!

It's awsome .
I's a good OS ! But not for geeks for sure .
It will only turn heads of people who want to use it for daily usage . Not for heavy customizing ,
BTW The gecko / Firefox OS Would be awesome ! as it is an HTML 5 Based OS / or just a web page :cyclops:

Man no Google now voice search. Gapps. Or play store apps.
Its looks nice but right now in this phone world its apple Google and Microsoft. I may want to try out the new Ubuntu os since Google is technically Linux.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

Sure I would still prefer Android as my main platform, but I would LOVE to try this out on my GS3! I've always been an OS geek, and love the feel of exploring a new, beautiful, and innovative UI, as well as learning how the underlying platform works and differs from similar setups. It's why I've been playing around with Linux distros and customizing and tweaking them, Solaris, BSD, etc long before Android, despite the fact that I'm no developer. I would LOVE to be able to play around with different OS'es on my GS3, rather than just different Android roms, and Sailfish is one of the most interesting to me. I'll probably end up using Ubuntu more than anything if we get it, but Sailfish is something new and different and it looks really fun. :fingers-crossed:
Can someone link the story of a Jolla dev saying it can be ported easily by the community? If so, let's get this project started, and find out what needs to be done to make this happen, I'm tired of all these different OS'es coming only to the GNex!
With the re-merge of Android and Linux, and addition of the ARM drivers to the mainline, these types of alternative OS'es shouldn't be terribly difficult to port, and between Alien Dalvik and Google writing all their apps in HTML5 for ChromeOS, we should be able to get the basics of what we need from Android running on here, we just need to get the OS running!!

robogoflow said:
I may want to try out the new Ubuntu os since Google is technically Linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You realize that Sailfish is also technically Linux, too, right? And you realize that Ubuntu OS won't have Google Now, Gapps, or the Play Store either, right? So why are you naysaying Sailfish but optimistic about Ubuntu? You, sir, make no sense.

Why Sailfish might be a "GOOD" idea too...
The simple fact is I just bought a NOTE 2. First Samsung Device and aside from the S-pen, making a different way of interaction.
We have this to consider. As i have been readng how to 'setup' my NOTE 2 as it's on order and pending... I have come across
threads about how GOOGLE is trying to get 'us' the end users off of SD cards. Other Crap like that... Google has power now,
and they are acting so far like EVERY other US company that gets it. M$, Apple...
It's nice to 'have' something else to look at that is OPEN and someone noted something that is a concern to me. Customizable
look, and features. I myself don't like CRAP on my desktop or my HOME SCREENS... I just don't. When I run Linux, I go with no
icons on my desktop.
So this is so far from what I've seen a bit of a turn off but in the future because the system has to start somewhere... if it's really
open, one would hope such features could be expected. Either 3rd party or by the main OS makers.
There have been enough complaints here by users about devices without SD CARD access. About how Google is trying to cut
this off and how ni Samsung devices Samsung had to 'hack' around it to allow SD card access to apps that were used to getting
it.
I for one for simplicity don't want a stupid OS where all my personal CRAP PHOTOS etc are STUCK in the phone. Just for a simple
reason like that.
Another reason we should all hope for MORE OS's to be released is because lets let the DEVICE makers take something back!
Eventually it only takes one to WISE up... loosing money competing OS to OS or by trying to follow up when they have a good device but for example the ANDROID leader is SAMSUNG. I like that LG picked up WebOS SO they're gonna make Smart TV with it but all it takes is a little pebble to start the Landslide.
THese OEM's we want them to wise up and say... WAIT! There's stuff out there... we make the DEVICE and let them decide what they want on it. Isn't waht we all dream of? Cause then stupid crap like Samsungs Flash counter will be something made obsolete by trend.
Makes will possibly start trying to just concentrate on GOOD HARDWARE just like computers, and then maybe some company will really wise up and the only thing they'll contribute will be a device coming with some kind of AWsome MULTI-BOOT loader system ... Or at least if the devices are open someone can make one... haha.
Also about the Ubunty on mobiles thing... well, it's an interesting idea but seems like they are still not planning to get anywhere with it for a whole year? I wonder why...
Sailfish is using the WHOLE Linux... it's the same thing, but with a UI set for imbedded and small devices. SO all that needs to be done in the future is a step up to a whole desktop for bigger screen devices or if you dock your device to a large screen... so in other words...
Sailfish could have the same potential as Ubuntu...
I have personally never used Ubuntu and hope that with the option of sailfish what we may see is other Linux projects joining the trend. I mean really... it's all OPEN source. What actually bugs me the most as an end users is also the same problem that I see with some Linux projects.
Everyone reinventing the WHEEL trying to make the best this and taht and this is the real reason in some instances it's taking longer to do something that is lying around and could be modified and it's true, I don't speak with any experience in coding or programming but I think some who do know what is said is a bit true in some instances just like in some a total rewrite may be in order.
but if it's OPEN, then the parts are there.
So either way... it'll be good to see SAILFISH and other things. I'm sorry, but the whole TIZEN thing doesn't appeal to me pesonally. If it had more underlying structure other than the HTML 5, cause frankly, I am not real happy about every little thing on my system always
being connected to the internet in some way... though yes, I realize HTML 5 is just a way to create graphics but, remember these are companies we're dealing with here and they always have their own agenda.
Anyway... I'd like to see Sailfish vs Windoz OS, cause Micro$haft has not changed their ways and I don't expect to see them do any different than they have and their system will be similarly locked in ways but differently or in differently places as much as Apple's.
Android is open now but Google is acting weird and some competition and innovation can keep it open longer...
So, I'd love to see Salifsish fly or is that Swim... and of course they need to start somewhere and 90% of they users will be people who just want it to 'work' and that's where they need to go first. Us power users, etc in this forum, we're like the 10% or less now. Before
we were the people buying smartphones but when smartphones are now what the average user is getting their hands on?
Forget it... you bettre make something that they goo OOOH perty, and it's simple. OR you will be lost in the market. I also recall that
Sailfish is coming out here in the Asian market if I read taht right a couple month ago. I am an expat living in CHINA and believe me.
They want it simple and pretty, anything else... and it will fail. But once it hits this market, where a lot of stuff for Android is being made now
if it is accepted... then it will start having things made for it and if it can run Android apps, it's a true plus...
Depending on what hardware it comes out on, if it's able to use the simple apps I use in Android, it may be my next device to replace my daily users...
Obviously the NOTE 2 is going to be my KIND device and isn't exactly for 'daily' use in the way that I use my devices.
Still, the more the merrier and frankly, a lot of OEM's will want to get off of being branded as ANDROID device makers or whatever if they want to sell.
Also it's all good that ANDY is merging back with main kernel, but so far... there is still NO REAL work you can do with Android despite this yet. I do mean, such as prepare a very good OFFICE DOCUMENT, Power Point presentation and so on that you would on a computer. Though I hear the Open Office to Android project is going... so one can but wait and hope.

I would love to try this out on my LG optimus 2x SU660!

brew182 said:
In case you haven't seen it...
m.gsmarena.com/jolla_sailfish_os_detailed_demoed_on_video-news-5104.php
Looks really good, anyone wanna work on a port for our lovely gs3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. should try

I would love to see this OS running on my S3.

very cool... watch the hands on video. Note that they say that android apps will be ported over for the sailfish os, SO i would imagine that even if gapps are blocked etc. that they would likely work for the most part, or could be made to work ... lol :highfive:
Im definitely interested in anything that has quality (obviously this does!) ... and represents a new form of competition

I think this is pretty damn awesome. The hands on videos on YouTube look great, especially the ambiance thing.
Honestly, the phone looks good too but i would rather keep the beast hardware in my S3 and maybe get an S4, but having this OS on it would be awesome.
If someone had a way to dual boot Sailfish and Android, that would be epic.
Sure, it isnt completely and utterly customizable. But Sailfish seems very natural to use and at the same time you can still tap into all the Android apps!
Simple OS + Android apps.. what's not to like?

mandeep1 said:
I's a good OS ! But not for geeks for sure .
It will only turn heads of people who want to use it for daily usage . Not for heavy customizing ,
BTW The gecko / Firefox OS Would be awesome ! as it is an HTML 5 Based OS / or just a web page :cyclops:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is perfect for geeks! Lots of stuff to play with, mod and hack + true multi tasking

robogoflow said:
Man no Google now voice search. Gapps. Or play store apps.
Its looks nice but right now in this phone world its apple Google and Microsoft. I may want to try out the new Ubuntu os since Google is technically Linux.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dat comment. You must be somekind of an expert
/sarcasm

IOS 7 looks like Jolla.

Slight Nexus/Lolipop rant. Google please make new updates backwards compatible.

I know this doesn't apply to all of us but as someone who is a heavy android game player waiting on my Nexus 6 has got my worried that about half my games that i have invested hours and hours and hours into will not be playable on this device.
Now sure some over time will be updated to work again. But plenty of poor devs (like EA) can't be counted on to update games that are a few years old. And it's my belief Google should make every new android update somehow programed with a way to make older apps work. Granted i know we are moving to art. But certainly there could have been a creative programming solution.
I think how great a game like Dead Space would look on a Nexus 6 and unfortunately i will never probably see it.

What makes you think that any of your games will have issues with the nexus 6?

Couldn't tell you which game but a buddy of mine can't play one on his, nexus 7 2nd gen updated to lollipop, anymore.
But no I don't think google should make everything backwards compatible. At a certain point that's going to hinder progress when you can't change certain things because (this is overboard but) apps meant for 1.5 wouldn't work anymore.

seh6183 said:
What makes you think that any of your games will have issues with the nexus 6?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most Square Enix games explicitly say they don't support ART.

Hand76 said:
I know this doesn't apply to all of us but as someone who is a heavy android game player waiting on my Nexus 6 has got my worried that about half my games that i have invested hours and hours and hours into will not be playable on this device.
Now sure some over time will be updated to work again. But plenty of poor devs (like EA) can't be counted on to update games that are a few years old. And it's my belief Google should make every new android update somehow programed with a way to make older apps work. Granted i know we are moving to art. But certainly there could have been a creative programming solution.
I think how great a game like Dead Space would look on a Nexus 6 and unfortunately i will never probably see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not the responsibility of the developer of the OS to ensure third party games work with their updated API's, that is solely on the app/game developers. If they don't want to put the work in, then you are just out of luck unless someone programs some kind of emulator. It is what is required on desktop OS's for compatibility, I see no reason to change that for the mobile world.
Retaining legacy support for extended periods just leads to junk like Windows XP continuing to be used despite Microsoft dropping support.

It is inevitable and necessary for backward compatibility to break at some point of time otherwise all phones would still be running on android doughnut.

I understand it should be the developer that fixes it. But being most are not going to care (Ea/Gameloft) if it's a slightly older tile. It would be nice if Google had a plan b for us.
Take ms Windows. All the newer ones 7/8 have a way to run software in an older compatability mode.
Bottom line v is some companies have 40-50-60+ apps in their android library and growing. We are going to expect them to update all of them every year Google makes changes??? Or are we just going to slowly keep losing everything over time?

Your gripe is with the app developers not google. Also you say every year when google updates. That's not accurate. This is the first time in a long time that google has implemented something that would break app compatibility.

seh6183 said:
Your gripe is with the app developers not google. Also you say every year when google updates. That's not accurate. This is the first time in a long time that google has implemented something that would break app compatibility.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not accurate. When Kitkat was released i would say about 30-40% of the games I had had to be updated to work on it. Most were fixed in months i don't think we're going to be as lucky this time

Hand76 said:
That's not accurate. When Kitkat was released i would say about 30-40% of the games I had had to be updated to work on it. Most were fixed in months i don't think we're going to be as lucky this time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right and when jellybean came out nothing broke. So my statement stands.

Solution. Don't buy software from devs you know will not support their product.

Skripka said:
Solution. Don't buy software from devs you know will not support their product.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^^^^THIS/thread^^^^^^^^
OP, the BEST thing you and other people like you could do is vote with your wallet and not purchase these company's products and to tell them exactly why. No one NEEDS any of these games but these companies NEED your money.

AndrasLOHF said:
^^^^^^^^THIS/thread^^^^^^^^
OP, the BEST thing you and other people like you could do is vote with your wallet and not purchase these company's products and to tell them exactly why. No one NEEDS any of these games but these companies NEED your money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Further, if you don't mind a history lesson, supporting ancients OSes long past their prime is what nearly killed Apple. Their OS X was such a smash hit in large part technically because they finally severed software support for years and years of previous OSes. People squawked initially and being cut off, but then didn't mind the dividends in performance.