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Hello there folks. Let me begin by introducing myself and my situation. My name is Damian, I am in the twelfth-grade and I am currently enrolled in my high-school's concurrent enrollment program with one of the local universities in which I have to write a paper concerning the field of software engineering.
I started this post with the intention of finding and asking certified software engineers a few questions concerning their professions.
I came to this particular forum because of the many brilliant folk here, and my assumption that certainly a portion of the active members are certified software engineers.
-Many thanks in advanced for your replies and imput,
-Damian
damiandarkwater said:
Hello there folks. Let me begin by introducing myself and my situation. My name is Damian, I am in the twelfth-grade and I am currently enrolled in my high-school's concurrent enrollment program with one of the local universities in which I have to write a paper concerning the field of software engineering.
I started this post with the intention of finding and asking certified software engineers a few questions concerning their professions.
I came to this particular forum because of the many brilliant folk here, and my assumption that certainly a portion of the active members are certified software engineers.
-Many thanks in advanced for your replies and imput,
-Damian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can answer questions in this field as I am a Software Engineer. I would be happy to give a young person such as yourself advice.
I actually didn't go into college right after high school, I wish I had but I incountered allot of hardship around your age. When I was 22 I went back to school and payed my own way through college, slept in my car in the college parking lot and lived off of peanut butter and jelly sandwhichs.
Honestly its your first job in software thats the hardest to get, but if your persistent you'll get it after that if your perform its pretty much smooth sailing. A good example is how everybody lately has had a hard time finding jobs (bad economy), and even I was laid off from a job where the company was doing great and then went south and I went on the market looking around and recruiters were calling non-stop and I had 2 jobs (one short term getting paid insane amounts of money for 200 hours of work, and then a long term contract after that), I took a vacation to vegas, paid of credit card debt and then started my long term contract.
So ask away!
Edit:
Oh I currently work for a large telecom company where I work ont here provisioning software. My main expertise is Java (j2se, j2ee blah blah) I also write reports (crystal, jfree and actuate), I also have alot of side skills like jsp, ajax, jquery. I actually have wirtten code professionally in all the major langs like c, c#, j# asp.net. As a software developer you constantly need to evolve and progress. I aslo done graphics professionally and If I had it my way I write videos games if I could but alas the life of a programmer is allot less glamorous than most people no.
Many thanks, I'm sorry to hear about your tough times, but I'm glad to hear things have settled out.
I want to say its great that your able to help me and thank you for your tux theme and scripts.
I am actually looking into dealing with my computers as a profession after collage.
So I begin (thanks again):
What courses and or certifications do you need.
What is a typical day in your job like?
Do you enjoy your job?
And you can tell me anything else that you believe to be important that I may have missed.
-Thanks again
Damian
damiandarkwater said:
Many thanks, I'm sorry to hear about your tough times, but I'm glad to hear things have settled out.
I want to say its great that your able to help me and thank you for your tux theme and scripts.
I am actually looking into dealing with my computers as a profession after collage.
So I begin (thanks again):
What courses and or certifications do you need.
What is a typical day in your job like?
Do you enjoy your job?
And you can tell me anything else that you believe to be important that I may have missed.
-Thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My tough times where years ago. I've been in the field for almost 10 years.
The first thing you want todo is get a bachelors degree in computer science. Take as many courses as you can in which you will get exposed to writing software, understanding logic and being able to solve problems using logic. But the most important thing is have a specailty something that you know above all other things, be it a certain language or software... good expample is SAP, I have a friend who is a project manager for a very very large electronics manufacturer. they are paying a contractor to do SAP programming and they pay him 500$ dollars an hour... yes 500$ and hour now its not a permanent job but he's making more in a month than most people make in a couple of years. Thats his specailty and its a hard one to break into.
So once you get your degree you can concentrate on what your specailty will be this is where certs come in. Certs are great but don't pay for them, get a job in the field and get them to pay, this is because most of them expire and you usually have to renew them every couple of years. But the look good on your resume especailly if a company pays as this gives the impression that you are a go getter and that the company beleives in you. Your specailty might relate to your degree major or it might be what your first major job is, this is just luck of the draw.
So a typicaly day, wow its hard to say. Sometimes its go go go and I'm writing code like crazy. Other days its talk talk talk and meetings. Sometimes I spend days writing tech specs or documents to give overviews and estimations on software that needs to be written. Think office space it really is allot like that. One thing alot of people don't know about being a software developer is that you not only need to understand how to write software (ie solve problems) but you also need to undersand the industry in which you write software for. This means you need to understand the business process. So think if you were writing software for a burger company, you need to understand how orders are processed, how iventory is processed and used blah blah. This is where probably the hardest part it almost a second job.
Do I like my job.... as someone who had mowed lawns and dug ditches for a living making money that wouldnt even feed one person, yes I actually love my job. I worked hard to get where I'm at I make pretty good money, my wife doesn't have to work, My kids have more than I had as a little kid and the work I do is satisfying.
If there one thing I could stress when it comes to this line of work. You have to love software, so much so that you willing to work long hours and then come home and write more software as a hobby (maybe i did atleast). Or when you hit college start a pet project and see it through. These are the things that will set you apart from other developer coming out of college. Especailly when you don't have much on your resume, and honestly these are the question potential employers ask (hobbies, personal projects).
How bout this... I give you an hour by hour blog for the next week on what I'm doing at work.
I'm currently working on a rewrite... code fix for code that the company I work for now decided to outsource. This code ended up being terrible and was somethign I was thrown into when I arrived here about 8 months ago. I just started this project about 3 weeks ago and before that I spent about 4weeks evaluating and writing custom testing suites to produce metrics scores for this software compared to the previous version of this software (ie compare say version 5 to version 6). I was the one who found all the bugs and areas of concern and gave estimates on hours of work to fix these things.
So I might be off tomorrow, if I am I will report so. If not then I will start the hour by hour blog if you like.
Such a blog would be amazing (and id read up hourly for updates trust me, this sounds fascinating!)but I wouldn't want to detract from your life anymore then I already have, you work hard and I imagine that you would want to have time to yourself for your hobbies and your family.
Thank you very much. I could ask a million more questions, but again, I don't want to take away to much time. Thanks a billion
No really i want to answer them I wish I had been in you're shoes when I was your age. I didn't have some one telling that I could do it... computer were different back then hell I didn't own my own computer till I was in my twenties.
Ill do the blog for you... one if the perks of being on a computer. Like I said just at work tho. When I get home I can't promise when I be able to post.
So ask question one at a time since I tend to be long winded... it makers it easier... honestly when I retire I plan on teaching at a tech college... but thats about 20 years away. But I love to answer question about these things.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Great
Well what was learning your first programming language like
Do you think knowing a markup language helps or would help in the learning process?
What do you think the software engineering world will be like in a few years?
Is there any particular aspect of the computer world you like most?
Do you still keep in contact with any of your professors or colleges?
Hey Asimmons, thanks for helping damian out. I'm in the same boat he is, and I'm finding this really useful! Thanks a lot!
Glad I can help I was in you guys shoes once. And know that feeling of uncertainty... ill answer more tomorrow for you guys and start the blog.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I know I've said it tons, but I mean it, thank you ASimmons. And I'm glad this post can help others
damiandarkwater said:
Great
Well what was learning your first programming language like
Do you think knowing a markup language helps or would help in the learning process?
What do you think the software engineering world will be like in a few years?
Is there any particular aspect of the computer world you like most?
Do you still keep in contact with any of your professors or colleges?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mark up languages are very important, but I wouldn't focus a career on them. Languages like html, dhtml or xml are skills you will pickup along the way, understanding how these langs are parsed and used by other languages are very important and is a valuable skill to have. Especially in Java and with the emergence of real time web applications that uses technologies like ajax, jquery and now html5 it is more important to understand the usage and capabilities of these languages rather than focus on just knowing how to write a webpage.
The future of software will be more and more web based and mobile application. as we have seen in the corporate world for the last 5 or so years application that were once only possible on the desktop have moved entirely to web based app. This makes deployments and updates easier to maintain, version control easier, and with technologies like html5, ajax used in conjunctions with SOA and SAAS these apps perform just as well or better than the app you use to see run on your desktop. Take MS Office 365 and their cloud software for this, this is essentially an SAAS (software as a service) you lease the software it doesn't run locally anymore and the software and its worries and maintenance are pushed to the software vendors, we start to see this more and more. Google has been at the for front of this, and expect to see computers in the near future that are just dummy terminals that run only the basics and all your important software is pushed to a corporate cloud. I'm not saying desktop pcs will disappear but downloadable software will begin to especially in the corporate world.
I pretty much like anything that has to do with technology. I love the history of computers since I grew up and pretty much watch the birth of the home pc and remmeber when the 486dx came out and it was considered the best computer you could get. I remember using the trs-80 in typing class and the atari 2600 (still have one) kelico vision and then the nintendo (still have that to).
And yes I do stay in contact with the department head from my old college. I still use her as a reference from time to time since I worked in college for a little as a tutor (best job to get.. I recommend this if you can). College is about learning in large part but secondly its about contacts and networking. Make sure your networking in college, know your peers and previous alumni. Introduce your self and make sure to attend functions, since the will be potential co-workers or bosses.
So its mondays... I going to maybe do every couple of hours every hours might be to much. But I'm about to dive in to a ton of spaghetti code and try and make some since of it. This is especially ORM (look this up) code for an oracle database, and I'm trying to fix what is broken without having to actually rewrite the whole thing (if it was up to me I would). Be back in a couple of hours.
So its just after 2 and I've had to switch task to help another developer. This is pretty common and as a developer you have to be able to multi task.
So I'm working in creating a way for dynamic where clause can be built or just passed to and object DAO class.
The implementation I'm trying to fix is currently building them in a very static and non reusable way. When you design code it has be thought out and designed in such a way so that things like maintenance on said code is taken into account, and that repeatable processes are written in such a way that the can be reusable. This seems to have non of that.
If your looking at a package or program and see common re-occuring methods then this would be considered bad (imo) and should be re-evaluated and or rewritten so that this process can be written in one spot and referenced be other, this way if bugs or changes need to occur in this process you only have to change it there, this is the most common principle in OOP design but you be amazed at how much it is abused.
While you might be saving time up front your creating time on the back end for thing like code maintenance, upgrades or bug fixes.
It's about 5 for me and I just got home from school. I was at a friends house trying to understand a virus her computer contracted. (smart engine, annoying little thing, but its all better now.)
I'm looking into ORM as I type this. Interesting o:
I ask about the markup languages because ill be taking an html5 course next term. Makes sense that id learn about them along the way.
Sounds like you can handle quite a bit all at once, does that develop with time?
Html 5 is not like the previous htmls. So yeah this will be the next big internet language think web apps and pages that are totally dynamic. Good choice.
The multi tasking can be learned... good habits and time management... mostly learning the most basic of issues there's probably 5 or so and how the efficiently solve the problems and with what tools. Tools are very important every thing from ant or scripts to automate task to custom libraries.
Here's one, it's sort of a snarky developer joke.
You can have software.. done fast, done cheap and done right. You can only choose two though.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Hey Sorry
Sorry I been super busy. There small a small re-org in my department and I changed cubicals (this office space) and now I sit next to the "I've done it all programmer". The I've done it all programming can do everything, and its was always easier.
So hows the paper going?
Done!
It was a pleasure to write after talking with you, thank-you.
I get my grade sometime next week.
Thank you Simmons I am in 9th grade and am in a it trade school and I have thinking of going more for software thank you for all this I will finish reading these when I get home
sent from one ba hero
Hello All,
I have an idea for an excellent app. It is an app that I see having the ability to generate mass amounts of money. I have been waiting for an app of its type to come out for a long while now, but have not seen any. I do not have the skills to create said app, and want to know what my best bet to get in with a dev team would be? Anyone know how to get in touch with the Big Boys of the app world to get this thing going? It is not a question of if, I KNOW this app will be successful. Please help and thank you for taking the time to respond.
- Ron
learn how to code is my best advice
Just find a developer here at xda or on the market that has an app that looks similar to or at least looks like they have the ability to produce something like what you would want, then send them an email.
Sent from my MIUI SCH-i500
Give us a hint on the type of app: theme-based, music, RSS reader, e-mail, SMS, Global Thermonuclear War for Android
I'm sure a lot of developers are busy and would just like to see if your app falls in their skill set/schedule.
Thanks,
Roots
The low down...
Well first off thank you all for your replies.
The app is a game though. The best part about it is the potential to touch many people with its genre and simplicity. Its a sports game that has no other game in its category, but that literally everyone on the planet knows of it. It would have the ability to be a head to head type game, online. It would also have a offline single player side, that would allow the user to earn "achievements" and enhance their player. Think of it as Homerun Battle 3D, but for a different sport. I really do see it as a more broad range of money earning potential because of the sport and how much of it kinda relies on the in game character. So upgrades like clothing, hair, jewelry, etc... would be more sought after, just to be different, when facing other players.
Which is why I think World Championship (Name Here)... has the potential to get mass amounts of attention. Im thinking Cross platform love. Maybe cross console...
I honestly wish I had the ability to do this, but starting from the ground up, it is kind of a big project for someone in my shoes. I have everything written out for the app... just looking for some execution.
Probably you already know - but I'll mention them here anyway:
a) In startups, people get a share out of the company [as they spend a lot of time risking that nothing will come out of it].
Maybe you are extremely convinced that you'll strike gold, but is still to be seen how the market will react. Good luck anyway
b) You need to hire some lawyers to protect your IP, before signing NDA agreements.
c) Write a business plan, start pitching, get the money from investors to start it up.
Then hire a good company to create it for you and invest in ads, etc.
You need all these, as if you do it wrong, then the game won't take off. But if somebody with more resources [which can afford very good devs] sees the opportunity, they might create a better version.
Well ask any developers here or if u know java try learning android
Well, I'm out! LOL I don't do games.
However, good luck to you!!
If you want to develop a game, be informed that aside from Java you also need to learn some C++ and OpenGL so it can take serious amount of time.
RonnyT24 said:
Well first off thank you all for your replies.
The app is a game though. The best part about it is the potential to touch many people with its genre and simplicity. Its a sports game that has no other game in its category, but that literally everyone on the planet knows of it. It would have the ability to be a head to head type game, online. It would also have a offline single player side, that would allow the user to earn "achievements" and enhance their player. Think of it as Homerun Battle 3D, but for a different sport. I really do see it as a more broad range of money earning potential because of the sport and how much of it kinda relies on the in game character. So upgrades like clothing, hair, jewelry, etc... would be more sought after, just to be different, when facing other players.
Which is why I think World Championship (Name Here)... has the potential to get mass amounts of attention. Im thinking Cross platform love. Maybe cross console...
I honestly wish I had the ability to do this, but starting from the ground up, it is kind of a big project for someone in my shoes. I have everything written out for the app... just looking for some execution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that's badminton
.......
Android blog: blackbearblanc.tumblr.com
Twitter : @jeppefoldager
Google+ : gplus.to/jeppefoldager
Rock band : thedeadradio.dk
Two options hire someone to make it. Or write it yourself...that's pretty much it lol.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
viulian said:
Probably you already know - but I'll mention them here anyway:
a) In startups, people get a share out of the company [as they spend a lot of time risking that nothing will come out of it].
Maybe you are extremely convinced that you'll strike gold, but is still to be seen how the market will react. Good luck anyway
b) You need to hire some lawyers to protect your IP, before signing NDA agreements.
c) Write a business plan, start pitching, get the money from investors to start it up.
Then hire a good company to create it for you and invest in ads, etc.
You need all these, as if you do it wrong, then the game won't take off. But if somebody with more resources [which can afford very good devs] sees the opportunity, they might create a better version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. I like the way to think. I have been doing most of the things said here. Contacted a group from a newly popular app in the store and got some "feedback". Not on the app itself but what it would take to get them to even sneeze at it. Blah... So say I had someone with money to back this... I have been looking around and it appears its impossible to patent or even block people from copying the app down to the most minute of changes making them different. Apparently its easier to get something done about it in the App Store but cheaper and easier to get an app in the Android Market. Before anyone snaps, I hate apple (I use to love them but after the 3gs/Ipad came out and I realized it would be the same incremental updates forcing me to buy new every year just like the Iphone/3g, I have hated them sense).
I just wish I could get EA or someone big like that to even respond to my emails. There really arent that many sports apps worth a damn. This one would open the whole thing up. Actually using multi-touch to do more than button spam. A game where being ranked against the world wouldn't depend on how often you play but, actual win/skill pct. I havent even played the game an I already love it hah.
WTF DO I DO!?!?!
Going after EA or a UbiSoft is going to be damn near impossible. You have to have "name" power (think Tiger Woods or Peyton Manning name power).
They PAY people $70,000 a year to come up with game ideas and then spend millions and 5 years developing it..can you say "Diablo 3"? LOL
Odds are your app is a "been there, done that" concept or is not a viable market opportunity in their eyes.
Now, don't get me wrong; I'm just expressing my opinion. I hope you can market your idea and make millions! I'm trying to do that with every month, every day and every line of code I write.
Hi all!
I'll take it down if needed but I was wondering if such a petition is worth to do:
www(dot)change(dot)org/petitions/asustek-computers-open-nvflash-apx-and-allow-rooting-of-tablet (hmmm, still can't post links, oh well)
As said, there's been work done, but it could actually bring some fresh air to everyone if ASUS decided to get their butts off of the seat and stop the lock&run game because people will get exhausted.
Plus I honestly believe that the more they lock it, the more they're gonna cut themselves from the non-ignorable proportion of people who want at least the freedom to be able to tweak things.
After all, you can do it with almost everything around, even in high-tech.
(tw.asus.com is hard to reach and asus.com is ooo, If anyone have a good email address to submit for the petitioners, I'll take it )
Any thoughts? (or any mistakes on the petition to point out? English not being my native language)
Thx
I don't think this would be very successful. Asus has both a right and a reason not to allow root access. For one, you always have those knuckleheads out there who would love to try and overclock their processor to 6Ghz just to see if they can do it and then they would expect Asus to provide warranty coverage. Not to mention those who brick their device, etc.
There may also be other issues we don't even know about. Perhaps Netflix and other DRM or secure based apps would claim this is a violation of their agreements and pull support which, in the long run, isn't worth it for Asus because only a small minority of people do things like rooting, etc.
Anyway, as much as I like to have root and cool ROMs like Cyanogen, I wouldn't sign this petition even if I thought it would go somewhere. I just feel that, in the end, it would raise the price of the product so they could cover those people mentioned in paragraph 1.
I totally get your points.
This is why it can be proposed, as HTC does, on the counterpart of losing part or all of warranty coverage for misuse.
I didn't think of DRM support initially as the services mentioned aren't available out of the US anyways, but still, does HTC have such a partnership? (They do mention the potential loss of DRM protected content access)...
But you're right at the same time, I just feel trapped with a TF101G/B80 which I'd just like a few extra functionality that many others are playing with *shrugs* I still do believe that opening the device a bit more can help it's success, but maybe that's me being naive.
Can't say I worry about the 6Ghz OC type of problem domain, because if someone does that and expects warrety coverage they obviously have larger problems for our culture. I'd also say it's fair to just write in the warentee, "VOID IF ROOTED OR TAMPERED WITH", and adapt the definitions in legalise or simple English suitably. And then point to that when someone does something stupid: You seriously voided your warentee pal.
What is a serious issue to think about is issues like the Netflix example. That is one that could have many and far reaching implecations, both for the device and the platform if it becomes the norm. It's also sth I have never thought about. Perhaps because of how I view the whole DRM thing.
e.g. you can't let me play your game on my PC *and* stop my neighbore from pirating it, unless you can pretty much reduce it to a video stream with some interactivity instead of how contemporary games are done. It can be made harder but in the end, DRM can't provide the level of protection companies want.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Spidey01 said:
Can't say I worry about the 6Ghz OC type of problem domain, because if someone does that and expects warrety coverage they obviously have larger problems for our culture. I'd also say it's fair to just write in the warentee, "VOID IF ROOTED OR TAMPERED WITH", and adapt the definitions in legalise or simple English suitably. And then point to that when someone does something stupid: You seriously voided your warentee pal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's just it. It's not always possible for asus to tell if someone has tampered or rooted their device. This is the age of electronics. Tracks can very easily be covered. The knucklehead who tried to OC to 6ghz is probably also clever enough to cover his tracks and claims it just stopped working one day. The only way for asus to tell if the thing's been tampered with is if they spend the time, money, and resources to investigate, which in the end isn't even worth it.
In this case, I agree with Asus. I rooted mine from day one and has been doing some tweakings under the hood the last few months. That said, I don't think most people out there are up to it.
Taking it down.
Mixed feeling... I understand (though not agree with all) the mentionned points.
They could do it if they wanted.
And I doubt HTC raised the prices of their devices in allowing people to root it (and they cover their asses anyways, on repair coverage and loss of DRM's to avoid having to)
I'm simply gonna tag ASUS as being a bit lame, my only hope is some advancements on the SBK crackdown.
[Hint for NVidia: add a (false-positive proof) read-only max-temp-reached register accessible through APX, could help putting away some OC misuse]
I don't understand. Windows laptops are "rootable" and no one does any fuss about it. Why Transformer isn't? I won't buy another Asus tablet if I can't root it or change the OS if I want - I will look for other options (like HTC with their N-trig stylus). If they worry about OC they should state that rooting voids warranty. But I think the main problem for them is DRM which I don't even want on my device - if they made the device rootable probably Netflix and others would oppose it or sth (I don't know why - it's working on rooted device right now anyway).
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868
Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
DroidBois said:
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
SacGuru said:
Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.
Rirere said:
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
SacGuru said:
You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
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Click to collapse
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.
Rirere said:
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.
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I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
SacGuru said:
I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
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Click to collapse
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.
Edit
SacGuru said:
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment).
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I think we're reading the comment a little differently. This is why I brought up what I did.
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
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Click to collapse
Based on the questions being asked, I think it's reasonable to assume OP doesn't know anything about rooting or ROMs, so I'm being a little more liberal in looking at this comment than I would be otherwise. As such, I'd rather err on giving them information a little outside the original scope than too little.
Rirere said:
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment). Somehow your answer seemed pretty similar to mine ('just about everything would be fine'), so I just wondered why you had to mention to me problems with apps like the google wallet which are easily fixed.
By now, I am sure both of us understand what the other is talking about. Also, the op has enough info to take a decision on his own. My only qualm is that the inclusion of some seemingly complex terminology might turn him off rooting his device
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.
DroidBois said:
Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not had any problems with Google Play services and root, although most of my books are sideloaded after ripping DRM off of Amazon purchases (I don't really believe in the idea of a "perpetual lease"). As someone who has spent time working on that "employer junk" for corporate use, it may annoy the living **** out of you as a rooted user, but from a corporate standpoint it's actually pretty damn important.
Now, as far as MTP goes, don't quote me on this, but I remember seeing a setting in DriveDroid a while back (it's an app that lets you mount an ISO on your computer by connecting your device) that would let you change your USB connection mode to something other than MTP/PTP. I dont' remember the acronym, unfortunately, but it was a lot more in line with the way a "standard" USB device would connect (with the attendant issues of not using FUSE).
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. Not sure how to feel about this??? If true then there's definately hope for unlocking more WP8 handsets yet at the same time with all the NSA crap going on and concerns about privacy and security...WTF??? Reading around various forums and sites I am actually surprised how many people are NOT interested in unlocking their devices naming security as their number one reason for switching to the WP8 platform. In all the time I've spent here on the forums, with the exception of a few shady posts by no one of any consequence, I have never seen any maliciousness in the the search for exploits and attempts to unlock devices. If anything it almost seems like a game between devs and MS/OEMS and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some of the devs here were offered opportunities by those same entities; if not then our gain, MS's loss. However this article got me thinking about the possibilities and implications of any exploits or unlocks found and just wondering what others thought... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
Microsoft buying Apple is much more plausible that what is in there.
Part of having a secret surveillance plan is to actually keep the plan secret.
I doubt the group "responsible" for this would post their achievements on the internet, provided they are supported by the government.
tonbonz said:
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. ... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
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You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
Oh, that's pretty plausible, actually. Even if you assume it's for every device on every version of the OS, I'd still be willing to believe it. Microsoft has done well on security with WP8, hardening the OS (NT in general) over the last decade or so to remove vulns, and using pretty good sandboxing of WP8 apps to minimize attack surface. With that said, there are still items being found, and patched (at least on the PC), regularly in Windows. Some of those vulnerabilities will be present and reachable on WP8 as well, and given how slowly phone updates roll out, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited. For that matter, it could be a true zero-day - something Microsoft is completely unaware of, at least when the exploit was first used - although I think that's less likely.
dazza9075 said:
You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
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Click to collapse
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
"Mercenary hackers claim full control over Windows Phone"
and my grandpa told me he had sex with Lili Marleen... but who know... maybe has maybe not
tonbonz said:
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
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aye, we are significant in our world but there are a lot more numpties out there then there are of us
GoodDayToDie said:
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited..
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I totally agree with you but until I see something concrete these are only words...or like I can say in Italian:
fatti, non pugnette!:laugh: (facts, no word please)
Oh, to be sure. Still, it actually gives me a little hope for finding a universal "jailbreak" hack... although I'd prefer one that isn't remotely exploitable.