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Hello again!
I've been doing a lot of testing lately with the cameras of the Neo & Arc, and so far everything is perfect! The more I test them the more I get convinced that this is for real, and not a market gimmick.
Here you get the exact same photos in auto setting for both the X10 & Arc, see for your selves the difference and you be the judge.
The photos have been taken in low light conditions :
X10
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Arc
X10
Arc
X10
Arc
So, what do you think
Good enough or could be better ?
Id say i can take much better low light pictures than that with my X10. Especially the last pic with the mini where its completely out of focus and blurry.
The Arc would still win, no doubt, but those arent as good as the X10 can perform in low light.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Mr Patchy Patch said:
Id say i can take much better low light pictures than that with my X10. Especially the last pic with the mini where its completely out of focus and blurry.
The Arc would still win, no doubt, but those arent as good as the X10 can perform in low light.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I really tried to be as objective as possible. And to be honest, it's really hard to maintain focus in night time on the X10, whereas you would notice a huge difference when it comes to the Arc.
Anyway, thanks for sharing
Basharca said:
Actually I really tried to be as objective as possible. And to be honest, it's really hard to maintain focus in night time on the X10, whereas you would notice a huge difference when it comes to the Arc.
Anyway, thanks for sharing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even though the X10's camera is really good compared to many other phones out there, I'd have say that it's really slow from initiating the app to focusing on the subject and to saving the image after the picture is taken!
having had both... the x10 simply can't compete with the arcs camera.. completely different league.
Sent from The Arc!
THE ARC have AMAZING camera
jerrytea said:
Even though the X10's camera is really good compared to many other phones out there, I'd have say that it's really slow from initiating the app to focusing on the subject and to saving the image after the picture is taken!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts exactly! The interesting thing though is that the X10 already has a top notch camera. So, seeing some of the differences with the Arc now, truly shows that S/E still owns this game, at least in the camera department.
Basharca said:
Actually I really tried to be as objective as possible. And to be honest, it's really hard to maintain focus in night time on the X10, whereas you would notice a huge difference when it comes to the Arc.
Anyway, thanks for sharing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i came across as rude that wasnt my intention. I have taken good low light shots with my X10...infinity focus works 10 times better with the camera on the X10 for anything that isnt macro. Night mode works great with steady hands as well. EV control is what makes the camera shine best.
BUT! I seen alot of images from the Arc and the X10 doesnt stand a chance....which only shows how good the Arc is because the X10 is still one of the best camera phones out there.
The colors the Arc produces are absolutely phenominal! Im so jealous.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Agree, it is a big difference in low light condition!
Mr Patchy Patch said:
If i came across as rude that wasnt my intention. I have taken good low light shots with my X10...infinity focus works 10 times better with the camera on the X10 for anything that isnt macro. Night mode works great with steady hands as well. EV control is what makes the camera shine best.
BUT! I seen alot of images from the Arc and the X10 doesnt stand a chance....which only shows how good the Arc is because the X10 is still one of the best camera phones out there.
The colors the Arc produces are absolutely phenominal! Im so jealous.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all man! You're a very polite and nice guy
We are here to discuss our opinions, so feel free to say what ever you believe in.
The thing is that The new S/E cameras are stunning! Like you asserted earlier the X10 already has a top notch camera, so seeing the improvements on the Arc & Neo just makes me send my warmest Kudos to Sony really.
Have a good one
High ISO - what you call low-light - is there but it introduces even more noise.
Arc's biggest problem is its horrible JPEG compression: it really looks like someone forgot to take a look at its pics in 1:1...
...once again, great engineers, incompetent management, as always with SE.
What does management have to do with jpeg compression?
1.Since you have mentioned neo. I am eager to know the camera performance of arc vs neo. Coz gsmarena has mentioned that arc takes better picture than neo.
Im thinking of shifting to SE neo or arc. Depend upon camera performance.
2. one more thing, no site mentioned about the capture rate. Ex. Engadget said x10 has more detail than arc despite having less mp. But we all know x10 takes lot many msec than arc so pic comes blurr.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
my friend has a Samsung Star 1, I think it can beat the arc in low light conditions, I'll compare the two phones as soon as I can.
Sent from my Xperia arc using Tapatalk.
Mesho Arc said:
my friend has a Samsung Star 1, I think it can beat the arc in low light conditions, I'll compare the two phones as soon as I can.
Sent from my Xperia arc using Tapatalk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And a friend of mine have the samsung wave... I was so ashamed when we compared the 2 phones under low light conditions... Exmor R my @ss!!!!
That's weird.. cos I've never seen a phone take low light pics as good as the Arc.
reptile64 said:
And a friend of mine have the samsung wave... I was so ashamed when we compared the 2 phones under low light conditions... Exmor R my @ss!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more - great pics in daylight, piss poor in low light. Tried tweaking the camera settings but to no avail. Am wondering if anything i froze with titanium could have degraded the camera quality at all..?
If you want to take pictures, for instance, of a drunk friend of yours dancing like crazy in a club with poor lightning, just to show them to some other friends later, the Arc/Arc S surely wins, since it easily captures decent detail even in the darkest spots. But don't expect comments like "Wow, your smartphone takes really good pictures at night"... They're way too noisy and 'cheap' for that.
On the other hand, if you want to take pro-like pictures of low-light landscapes such as a city at night or a beautiful sunset, then the X10 is far, far ahead of the Arc.
Let's put it like this:
Arc in Normal scene = Great brightness with heavy noise, no need to keep your hands still.
Arc in Night scene = Lower brightness that in Normal scene with less noise, but you need to keeps your hands as still as possible, so the pic doesn't turn out to be a blur.
X10 in Normal scene = Poor brightness with low levels of noise, no need to keep your hand too still.
X10 in Night scene = Great brightness, even better than the Arc in Night scene, with almost unnoticeable noise, but urgent need to keep your hands completely still.
Not as much brightness as the Arc on Normal scene though.
So, regarding the Brightness/Noise ratio, the X10 has a better camera than Arc.
Still, you might want to notice that the purpose of a camera in a phone is to be able to quickly capture moments of your life, and not take pro-like pics... For that, consider buying a professional camera or so.
my arc s in a very low light condition
it's not that bad IMO.
I have both phones and the Arc's camera is much better.
X10 = dark photo
Arc = bright photo that's good looking
Both tested at the same location
Sent from my LT15i using XDA Premium App
Apparently, DxO Mark just gave out a score to Xperia Z1 and amazingly, just sits at 2nd place behind the Pureview 808 in overall Mobile Camera Ranking! :victory:
And that's without the "firmware updates" that will supposedly improve the camera!
I can't post the link as I'm still within the new user limitation of posting outside links. But if you're curious to see it, just do a quick google search for DxOMark and Xperia Z1!
More details:
Actually, the stills for Z1 stands at 5th place, however the video was deemed to be outstanding and the best in the mobile cameras and just 2nd place in their database behind the GoPro Hero 3!
If you're wondering what happened to the 1020, they also have an article on it and while they deemed the stills to be amazing and 2nd only to the 808. However, video was said to be lacking.
What are your thoughts?
bloodfire1004 said:
Apparently, DxO Mark just gave out a score to Xperia Z1 and amazingly, just sits at 2nd place behind the Pureview 808 in overall Mobile Camera Ranking! :victory:
And that's without the "firmware updates" that will supposedly improve the camera!
I can't post the link as I'm still within the new user limitation of posting outside links. But if you're curious to see it, just do a quick google search for DxOMark and Xperia Z1!
More details:
Actually, the stills for Z1 stands at 5th place, however the video was deemed to be outstanding and the best in the mobile cameras and just 2nd place in their database behind the GoPro Hero 3!
If you're wondering what happened to the 1020, they also have an article on it and while they deemed the stills to be amazing and 2nd only to the 808. However, video was said to be lacking.
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the big sensor is the key here. Dxomark doesn't reflect the real life though. I'm not very happy with the z1 camera... far too noisy especially at 20mp. Still better than my older nexus 4 anyway.
j0sh0 said:
I guess the big sensor is the key here. Dxomark doesn't reflect the real life though. I'm not very happy with the z1 camera... far too noisy especially at 20mp. Still better than my older nexus 4 anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just curious, what settings are you using? I'm pretty satisfied with the Z1 Camera of mine, but that was after tweaking some of the shooting settings I'm in. At first, I was pretty disappointed as well but now I think I'm good.
bloodfire1004 said:
Just curious, what settings are you using? I'm pretty satisfied with the Z1 Camera of mine, but that was after tweaking some of the shooting settings I'm in. At first, I was pretty disappointed as well but now I think I'm good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought the phone yesterday so I'm still testing it. At the moment I like to shoot in manual mode at 8mp with image stabiliser on.
j0sh0 said:
I bought the phone yesterday so I'm still testing it. At the moment I like to shoot in manual mode at 8mp with image stabiliser on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ok. That's good then. Shooting at 20MP especially in low-light results in (I'm not sure why) worse pictures than shooting at 8MP 4:3 .. in my tests, it resulted in darker images.
I also like to shoot at 8MP 4:3 to take advantage of the oversampling and leave the rest of the settings to Auto. One thing though is that I turn off the Stabilizer. I found that turning it on resulted in the camera choosing a much higher ISO than intended compared when leaving it off. This may be due to its detection of slight handshake movements and it tries to compensate by upping the ISO in favor of a faster shutter speed.
bloodfire1004 said:
Ah ok. That's good then. Shooting at 20MP especially in low-light results in (I'm not sure why) worse pictures than shooting at 8MP 4:3 .. in my tests, it resulted in darker images.
I also like to shoot at 8MP 4:3 to take advantage of the oversampling and leave the rest of the settings to Auto. One thing though is that I turn off the Stabilizer. I found that turning it on resulted in the camera choosing a much higher ISO than intended compared when leaving it off. This may be due to its detection of slight handshake movements and it tries to compensate by upping the ISO in favor of a faster shutter speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes shooting at 20mp is useless. Pics are so noisy... it's a shame. At 8mp the image quality is pretty good and yes, with the stabiliser on the iso is higher for that reason. But I prefer a bit more noise other than a blurred image.
j0sh0 said:
Yes shooting at 20mp is useless. Pics are so noisy... it's a shame. At 8mp the image quality is pretty good and yes, with the stabiliser on the iso is higher for that reason. But I prefer a bit more noise other than a blurred image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice. What metering and focus are you using? Particularly for macro / night shots. I find that using Single Auto Focus setting doesn't keep the whole image in focus and just the middle part, but I find that the multi-auto focus setting doesn't do too well either particularly in macro shots. Currently, I shoot in landscape mode when shooting macro.
I'm using metering average (it seems to do a better job with white balance as well). About focus I always use touch focus... I like to choose what I want in focus...
I love th bokeh management of the lens.. look at this for example
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j0sh0 said:
I'm using metering average (it seems to do a better job with white balance as well). About focus I always use touch focus... I like to choose what I want in focus...
I love th bokeh management of the lens.. look at this for example
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohh nice, I'm gonna try that out Thanks!
j0sh0 said:
I bought the phone yesterday so I'm still testing it. At the moment I like to shoot in manual mode at 8mp with image stabiliser on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there's you mistake - the software image stabiliser introduces noise. Switch it off.
Timaustin2000 said:
And there's you mistake - the software image stabiliser introduces noise. Switch it off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I know... but as I said I prefer a slighty noiser image than a blurred one. I'll try again without stabiliser anyway.
j0sh0 said:
Yeah, I know... but as I said I prefer a slighty noiser image than a blurred one. I'll try again without stabiliser anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully new update has improved superior auto mode...
Try night mode can reduce noise.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using xda app-developers app
Why is everyone so scared of noise I just don't get it. If the fine detail is their don't worry about the noise.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Yeah. The Z1 does lovely bokeh.
here is theDxO report for the Z1 which i could not find on DxO's website.
matheus_sc said:
I dont think samsung software is better, have more mods, but is very large and camera lags, i have gs4 9500 until last week
Sent from my C6903 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What i find telling from that review is this graph.
Above 80 lux the S4 shots have more 'texture' than the Z1.
Contrary to what people might think the Z1 has the best noise reduction indoors.
bloodfire1004 said:
Apparently, DxO Mark just gave out a score to Xperia Z1 and amazingly, just sits at 2nd place behind the Pureview 808 in overall Mobile Camera Ranking! :victory:
And that's without the "firmware updates" that will supposedly improve the camera!
I can't post the link as I'm still within the new user limitation of posting outside links. But if you're curious to see it, just do a quick google search for DxOMark and Xperia Z1!
More details:
Actually, the stills for Z1 stands at 5th place, however the video was deemed to be outstanding and the best in the mobile cameras and just 2nd place in their database behind the GoPro Hero 3!
If you're wondering what happened to the 1020, they also have an article on it and while they deemed the stills to be amazing and 2nd only to the 808. However, video was said to be lacking.
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not much of a fan of them anymore, after I wrote to them to see if they would do the Xperia Z test again after Sony updating the firmware to fix the bad camera quality, they didn't even respond to me. On the flip side it is Sony's fault for shipping substandard equipment, get all the important things right first, especially the camera when they are making such a big deal about how amazing it is.
DxO finally got around to testing the G2. Overall G2 placed 6th. However in the photo section it ties with the Z1 in terms of score. A closer examination of the parameters tested shows the Z1 edges ahead slighlty.
Where the Z1 comes out ahead : Exposure & Contrast, Colour, Noise Reduction, Flash
Where the G2 comes out ahead : Autofocus, Texture, Artifacts
4 > 3 or Z1 ahead by a little.
What lets the G2 down is video, where its ranked 15th to the Z1's 2nd place.
If you consider phones alone, Z1 has the best video out there.
Now we have to wait for DxO to test the Note 3 to see whether it will affect the Z1's ranking.
Sorry to jump here like that, I don't even know all this stuff but after read what you guys saying is like the camera on Z1 was made for experienced people who know how to set up the device. This is a phone anyway and I like to go around and shooting everything but almost of the pictures are crap. That how shouldn't be with a camera on a phone with 20mpx.
Z1 vs HTC one camera test / comparison - Vote please.
@ Mods please move this thread in general if it doesn't belong here , ty !
ok so my cousins came at my place with 2 Z1's , we've taken them to test them out , it was cloudy day , as for flash light photos / indoor no flash photos z1 trully sux big time and they didn't want to let me have those photos , so all i have is daylight photos and 1 flash light and 1 indoor , don't ask how i got those 2 lol it was PAIN.
While taking pics z1 really has major issues with superior auto / white balance , while with manual it's slightly better but still not good enough imo due timing , they've took both pics with me average 3/4 pics each and average 2-3 mins took them for each pic with various settings at the end choosing the best outta 7/8 they took while i was snapping either 1 normal or some HDR pics that's about it. They've also deleted so many daylight photos where they were worse then me ... so not really an *FAIR* comparison due them being big time Sony fanboys and they're very stubborn and not accepting their camera isn't the best in the world lol.
Keep in mind i have no skills with camera tho my cousins know how camera works so they're more experienced then i am.
Anyway i'll let you judge the photos and i'll open a vote poll so vote for which you think it won overall.
Xperia Z1
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HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
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HTC One
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HTC One
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HTC One
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HTC One
Xperia Z1 - Flash macro
HTC One - Flash macro
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1 - indoor no flash.
HTC One - indoor no flash.
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
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HTC One
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HTC One
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HTC One
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HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
great
except for the cloud one Which z1 has more natural
i cant believe htc beats z1 camera lol
thats epic hahaha
btw some of the colors are saturated for z1
for me htc one picture are pretty awesome
bith cameras are like same 4mp vs 21 lol
@Khixar27
I'm still uploading Photos i got 50 more to go please wait before i finish
Here some more photos that couldn't fit in the 1st post.
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Xperia Z1
HTC One
Koje selo i država brate? ?
Htc One the One ?
Slovakia?
But sticking to topic, Z1 doesn't looks to good with 21mpx sensor. I would say that One has slight edge here
adam_pl said:
Slovakia?
But sticking to topic, Z1 doesn't looks to good with 21mpx sensor. I would say that One has slight edge here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its Serbia actually
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I like the saturation in the Z1, but the HTC definitely capture more detail in low light with less noise. My conclusion is to use the HTC with a +.5 step in saturation.
In my opinin, and yes, I am a Z1 owner... seeing as you were using the Z1 in manual mode, you either had the ISO too low (50??) or you didn't adjust the EV accordingly as the Z1 pictures just look too dark really?
When in manual mode, you really need to take advantage of the settings
raysurrx7 said:
I like the saturation in the Z1, but the HTC definitely capture more detail in low light with less noise. My conclusion is to use the HTC with a +.5 step in saturation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We've took photos @ around 10/11am lol , the saturation you like on z1 is cuz they had to use cloudy / daylight white balance due impossibility to come close to my pics , here few examples for you just so you see what I mean , anyway it wouldn't look realistic since there were no sun at all pretty much whole time. Only 2 pics had sun and that's it.
1st pic normal 2nd with daylight effect same as they used the whole time
I assume this is what you wanted ?
Keep in mind it was cloudy no sun at all , that why pics are less saturated on my phone but as you can see in the examples I could've done that but wouldn't represent realistic colors
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
I guess there is something to that mega pixel after all. Both cameras took good pictures and mostly comes down to settings. At least the Xperia don't suffer from the purple haze that many of us one owners has.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
Dark Jedi said:
I guess there is something to that mega pixel after all. Both cameras took good pictures and mostly comes down to settings. At least the Xperia don't suffer from the purple haze that many of us one owners has.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It actually has indoor some yellow / blue tint , you can see on the indoor pic , btw I don't have that sensor issue that many HTC one owners do.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
wezzel98765 said:
In my opinin, and yes, I am a Z1 owner... seeing as you were using the Z1 in manual mode, you either had the ISO too low (50??) or you didn't adjust the EV accordingly as the Z1 pictures just look too dark really?
When in manual mode, you really need to take advantage of the settings
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exifs are there for all the pics
The Z1 user set white balance appropriately and actually used -EV compensation for a number of shots, might have over done it in some places. it's a difficult call. Auto isn't mature yet on the Z1, whereas the HTC one has been out for ages and from what i could tell the HTC camera took all the shots in auto. No tweaks.
The close up on the tree bark actually has the Z1 produce a blurred shot, dunno how that happened. Shutter was fast enough so no chance of camera shake.
Shan89 said:
ok so my cousins came at my place with 2 Z1's , we've taken them to test them out , it was cloudy day , as for flash light photos / indoor no flash photos z1 trully sux big time and they didn't want to let me have those photos , so all i have is daylight photos and 1 flash light and 1 indoor , don't ask how i got those 2 lol it was PAIN.
While taking pics z1 really has major issues with superior auto / white balance , while with manual it's slightly better but still not good enough imo due timing , they've took both pics with me average 3/4 pics each and average 2-3 mins took them for each pic with various settings at the end choosing the best outta 7/8 they took while i was snapping either 1 normal or some HDR pics that's about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What i'd like to understand better is this brightness value i see in the HTC exifs, it seems to change for each shot and wondered if any of the htc guys can tell me more about it. First thing you see is the HTC shots are all brighter, and in some cases more than necessary.
Questions to the OP
- how long have the Z1 owners had their phone and how long have you had yours.
- indicate which photo pairs are HDR (if any) ?
- Can you clarify whether the Z1 took the shots in 20MP or 8MP.
- Which program did you use to resize down to 1.4MP ?
- i don't understand what happened with the indoor shots. Saying they were really bad does not make sense to me. Without seeing the shots there is no way to comment.
- How about a low light shoot-out. I want to see shutter speeds of 0.3s on your htc and we'll see how that compares with the 0.8s on the Z1. Take care to stabilise the cameras so as not to have blur. If your cousins know what they're doing this should not be a problem for them
Shan89 said:
They've also deleted so many daylight photos where they were worse then me ... so not really an *FAIR* comparison due them being big time Sony fanboys and they're very stubborn and not accepting their camera isn't the best in the world lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually this is fair, you should have done the same as this way it really is best that the cameras can do. These are pre-planned shots, you can take as much time as you want. There is no time deadline or any other constraints. When people put up their pics many times they put up the best of many. So this is normal.
Auto isn't mature on the Z1, it will take time. This means the skill of the Z1 owner needs to be better. The difference with ISO for instance can be signficant and not slight as you put it, auto can bump ISO up very high resulting in a noisy shot whereas you can get pretty good results if you set it manually. Your cousins did this already. Most reviewers do not.
This should not come as a surprise to an HTC owner, you have plenty of tweaks you can use as well. However, things like contrast, sharpness, saturation etc would not be fair as they're not present on the Z1 and can be done in post with better software. i note you did not use any of these 3 in any photos
great comparsion
for me htc one looks better , btw the photos is great
does your htc one camera sometimes show in screen regular noise while capturing photos? i want to know if this is a regular thing or only my unit does this .. another question , does your phone suffer from blue/red noise in dark or no ? i hope no:good:
wezzel98765 said:
In my opinin, and yes, I am a Z1 owner... seeing as you were using the Z1 in manual mode, you either had the ISO too low (50??) or you didn't adjust the EV accordingly as the Z1 pictures just look too dark really?
When in manual mode, you really need to take advantage of the settings
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello there , I didn't even use z1 , I've wrote in OP that I was using my one and my 2 cousins were using 2 z1's taking each 3/4 pics each in total of 7/8 and later picking the best pic outta 7/8.
They look dark because HTC really has outstanding HDR while z1 really is no match with hdr.
From my observation with those difficult scenes z1 was useless , you could make pic but you would have to chose either sky/ clouds or ground , there's no option to take both like with HTC's hdr.
oh and believe my cousins were only using manual since superior auto was completely useless.
One Twelve confirmed this by checking Exifs.
One Twelve said:
Exifs are there for all the pics
The Z1 user set white balance appropriately and actually used -EV compensation for a number of shots, might have over done it in some places. it's a difficult call. Auto isn't mature yet on the Z1, whereas the HTC one has been out for ages and from what i could tell the HTC camera took all the shots in auto. No tweaks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah you're right. Like I said all I was using was auto or hdr , nothing else.
One Twelve said:
The close up on the tree bark actually has the Z1 produce a blurred shot, dunno how that happened. Shutter was fast enough so no chance of camera shake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the cousin moved lol.
One Twelve said:
What i'd like to understand better is this brightness value i see in the HTC exifs, it seems to change for each shot and wondered if any of the htc guys can tell me more about it. First thing you see is the HTC shots are all brighter, and in some cases more than necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The shots are brighter cuz of hdr , with z1 if you point at the sky for example bottom gets dark and it's clearly impossible for z1 to balance that due to poor hdr capabilities where's the htc one handles this easily.
My guess about brightness change is probably meetering and our auto / hdr can use higher values then what we can in manual.
One Twelve said:
Questions to the OP
- how long have the Z1 owners had their phone and how long have you had yours.
- indicate which photo pairs are HDR (if any) ?
- Can you clarify whether the Z1 took the shots in 20MP or 8MP.
- Which program did you use to resize down to 1.4MP ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- I've had HTC one since June , my cousins have their Z1's since it came out ( as addition they've been with Sony since SE K300I , so trust me they know what they're doing lol )
- All photos that have sky / clouds +ground = hdr , the rest were normal.
One Twelve said:
- i don't understand what happened with the indoor shots. Saying they were really bad does not make sense to me. Without seeing the shots there is no way to comment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- trust me it was embarrassing shots which is why they didn't let me have them , I managed to get only 1 flash photo and only 1 indoor no flash photo , I was looking forward to upload those but unluckily they didn't let me have them.
- Dunno which mp they used all I know is they used manual settings.
- I didn't use any program to resize photos , all I did is upload the photos from pc to tinypic site and post them here.
One Twelve said:
- How about a low light shoot-out. I want to see shutter speeds of 0.3s on your htc and we'll see how that compares with the 0.8s on the Z1. Take care to stabilise the cameras so as not to have blur. If your cousins know what they're doing this should not be a problem for them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said there's no low light shots Thx to them , tho in almost pitch black no flash z1 was better , everywhere else worse. Even video recording low light due fact I can record video at same brightness as the shots you saw lol. ( hdr recording ) also in pitch black z1 can't come close since my flash is about 2x more powerful.
One Twelve said:
Actually this is fair, you should have done the same as this way it really is best that the cameras can do. These are pre-planned shots, you can take as much time as you want. There is no time deadline or any other constraints. When people put up their pics many times they put up the best of many. So this is normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have the nerves for that I just want point and shoot not wasting time to set all the settings , the moment will pass by the time settings are set.
One Twelve said:
Auto isn't mature on the Z1, it will take time. This means the skill of the Z1 owner needs to be better. The difference with ISO for instance can be signficant and not slight as you put it, auto can bump ISO up very high resulting in a noisy shot whereas you can get pretty good results if you set it manually. Your cousins did this already. Most reviewers do not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I've noticed that superior auto is utter **** lol.
One Twelve said:
This should not come as a surprise to an HTC owner, you have plenty of tweaks you can use as well. However, things like contrast, sharpness, saturation etc would not be fair as they're not present on the Z1 and can be done in post with better software. i note you did not use any of these 3 in any photos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I'm just one of those point and shot , sometime switch to hdr and that's about it. Tho I gotta say I play with settings when I'm bored but when taking pics pretty much point and shoot.
Nightf0x_007 said:
great comparsion
for me htc one looks better , btw the photos is great
does your htc one camera sometimes show in screen regular noise while capturing photos? i want to know if this is a regular thing or only my unit does this .. another question , does your phone suffer from blue/red noise in dark or no ? i hope no:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I get sometimes with flash noise untill it focuses after that all normal , no tints here pretty much perfect unit.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
Great post. It is nice to see almost a year in and our camera is still up there with its so called Ultra-pixels which is just a fancy word for mega-pixel. I never doubted this phones camera always served me well and even made a 2 hour long home movie to send back home.. Great phone but i think if sony put time and effort into their software they can get the camera up and running in brilliant quality too..
Shan89 said:
They look dark because HTC really has outstanding HDR while z1 really is no match with hdr.
From my observation with those difficult scenes z1 was useless , you could make pic but you would have to chose either sky/ clouds or ground , there's no option to take both like with HTC's hdr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HDR takes multiple exposures and combines them. You have no control over this process. Given that auto isn't mature with Z1, it follows that neither will HDR be mature on Z1.
If you want good quality photos, then try not to use HDR. why ? jpg is lossy. jpg + jpg + jpg = even more lossy. Also takes longer as you have to wait for 'processing images' before taking next shot.
About sky/ground, what you do is use spot metering. If you spot on the clouds, the ground becomes dark, on the ground you blow out the sky, you have to spot somewhere in the middle. Now if the subjects are in the same focal plane then you can get away with this otherwise HDR is the only option as focus will not be at infinity. HDR is a compromise in this particular case to get you better exposed shot.
Its not required for every shot, only where there is big difference in lighting between foreground and background and subjects are in many planes that you want to keep more or less in focus. Personally, unless its landscape type photo this can be distracting, better to keep the subject in sharp focus and forget if the rest is blurred, it will make for a better shot.
In camera HDR is a recent 'innovation'. If you want the best HDR, then take 5 exposures from -2 to +2 with camera on a tripod, use a HDR speicialised program to combine them on a PC and then see the results compared to the 'poor man's HDR' the camera provides.
Shan89 said:
Yeah you're right. Like I said all I was using was auto or hdr , nothing else.
The shots are brighter cuz of hdr , with z1 if you point at the sky for example bottom gets dark and it's clearly impossible for z1 to balance that due to poor hdr capabilities where's the htc one handles this easily.
My guess about brightness change is probably meetering and our auto / hdr can use higher values then what we can in manual.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then i would look only at the pics where HDR was not used in this comparison. HTC one has had many months to improve HDR, it did not come perfect out of the box. Same with Z1.
Shan89 said:
- I've had HTC one since June , my cousins have their Z1's since it came out ( as addition they've been with Sony since SE K300I , so trust me they know what they're doing lol )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Z1 has been out now just under two months, takes time to get to know its quirks. Each phone camera is different. Since they set WB & EV i can tell they are not complete n00bs. But more hands on time is always better than less. Photographer is more important than camera.
Shan89 said:
- Dunno which mp they used all I know is they used manual settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have the originals, then look at the resolution. the 20MP will be (5248 x 3936) and the 8MP will be (3840 x 2160) or (3,264 x 2,448) . File sizes will also be bigger. I think they have used 20MP for all, can you confirm ?
This matters because currently you will get better shots with Z1 in 8MP 4:3 than with 20MP. Noise control is much better due to oversampling. Also 8MP means you can use different SCN modes which is not possible with 20MP. For low light shots or indoors this will make a difference.
For now we can say 20MP means 2x zoom is better than lower resolution sensors. Photos at 20MP are not necessarily better than 8MP. I wish these cameras put out RAW because then we will really see what the camera can do instead of what the compression program is doing to create those jpgs
When people make comments about camera they are primarily commenting about
1) auto and how well it works
2) image compression algorithm. good compression + good quality means more time + more CPU, a phone is not the best place to do this. So you can take the next shot quick, compromises are made here which affect image quality.
3) stock camera app. 3rd party apps in playstore may do a better job in certain situations.
So we still do not get to see what the camera can do without these other factors interfering in the process with ANY phone camera.
Shan89 said:
- I didn't use any program to resize photos , all I did is upload the photos from pc to tinypic site and post them here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was a good choice for image host because inspite of resizing it still preserved the exif data. Many others strip it out. I was surprised to see them. So you passed the minimum test here
Better still would be to resize them yourself with a good quality program and then upload. How well these image sites do resize is not transparent. They have to handle lots of load.
Shan89 said:
- trust me it was embarrassing shots which is why they didn't let me have them , I managed to get only 1 flash photo and only 1 indoor no flash photo , I was looking forward to upload those but unluckily they didn't let me have them.
Like I said there's no low light shots Thx to them , tho in almost pitch black no flash z1 was better , everywhere else worse. Even video recording low light due fact I can record video at same brightness as the shots you saw lol. ( hdr recording ) also in pitch black z1 can't come close since my flash is about 2x more powerful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm trying to figure what you mean here. The only clue is flash is 2x more powerful. So in cases where a more powerful flash helps the Z1 could not compete but there are cases where your flash will be over powering and the Z1 will be just right. This isn't a problem because you can always diffuse the light by putting some paper on the flash. Where the more powerful flash has an edge is in freezing motion if subject is moving with low light, so long as it happens less than 6 feet away. But then flash makes for lousy photos since its direct at the subject and not reflected. Big problem with phone cameras currently. They always locate the flash below the lens instead of above it. I don't why this is. There is no off camera flash option available as yet. eg. you cannot bounce the flash of the ceiling and get better photos.
But why to use the flash in the first place, when both cameras can do good low light photos. None of the subjects in the photos were moving so there should not be a problem here.
We don't know what your cousins were thinking. Embarrassing does not say much, why was it embarrassing and what could be done to make it better. There are many indoors shots with Z1 in the photo thread, nothing embarrassing there.
Shan89 said:
I don't have the nerves for that I just want point and shoot not wasting time to set all the settings , the moment will pass by the time settings are set.
Yeah I'm just one of those point and shot , sometime switch to hdr and that's about it. Tho I gotta say I play with settings when I'm bored but when taking pics pretty much point and shoot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This applies for impromptu shots. How often does this happen for you ? Not a single one of your sample shots comes in this category. My feeling is these impromptu shots are maybe 5% of the time. These are the hardest to get, subject may be moving and you will not get a good shot, you will get an ok to bad shot.
The rest of the time you can plan, take many shots, play with angles for better composition etc. But the thing about camera in your pocket is at least you have a camera in the first place and if the time is there you will get the shot whereas before you had nothing.
People say you are not supposed to get good photos because this is only a phone camera. But with more capable cameras they take lots of effort to get a good photo because its a good camera. Makes no sense. To get a good shot with phone camera you have to work harder because there are more limitations. This means more possibilities as well.
Shan89 said:
Yeah I've noticed that superior auto is utter **** lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what about 3 months from now ? will your statement still be valid.
if you follow the evolution of the Z, it took anywhere from 3-5 months after launch to get it right. So there is no reason it will change with Z1, maybe it might come sooner. This unfortunately is a sony thing. others will put out cameras that are mature but have bugs elsewhere. Nobody puts out a perfect phone at launch. Look hard enough and you will see the bugs, what matters is whether the vendor is prepared to fix them or not. How good is their past record in doing this.
But the reviewers always get the latest & greatest and then move on, they do not bother to review after 3 months. People also want latest & greatest and then find its not mature and think its bad. But after 3 months they change their mind. Just see the photo threads for any flagship here and you see the same comments. My <old phone> takes better photos than this <new phone>. very predictable :laugh:
if you look at HTC photo thread, around march-may, reviewers were complaining that htc is oversharpening images because they can see halos around the edges. What is the solution ? set sharpness to -2 or -1 gives a softer image and no halos. So htc got bashed quite a bit too. In fact i think htc is most bashed camera out there because everybody thinks 4MP is not enough. But what can they use to display 4MP ? there are no 4k displays out there or they are very expensive. Full HD is only 2MP. you can still print 10x14 inch prints with 4MP. But no... 4MP on HTC is not enough or bad. pfft.
Shan89 said:
I guess I get sometimes with flash noise untill it focuses after that all normal , no tints here pretty much perfect unit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one thing that still i'm not able to understand. 300 pg thread on this omg!. There are theories around but nothing conclusive as yet. Some people are saying the heat does it over time. With Z1 if it gets too hot you will not be able to use the camera. So too much heating over a long time is supposed to cause this problem with tinting. Its such a pity to replace the phone after only 6 months :crying:
This tinting is the problem as i see it with htc one. Not 4MP.
Too many peoples and companies think megapixels means quality, while using very poor sensors. They keep trying to push this rumor/agenda
A better sensor>>>>>megapixel count
crixley said:
Too many peoples and companies think megapixels means quality, while using very poor sensors. They keep trying to push this rumor/agenda
A better sensor>>>>>megapixel count
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly +1
@One Twelve
I'm sorry I can't bother answering to all questions etc , simply just take a look at photos and you got answer.
As for hdr stuff you wrote HTC one takes less then 0.5 Sec to make hdr photo and ready for next , I'm sure it takes over 20 sec to set z1 to make similar photo which is still no match.
As for fllash HTC one has smart flash = we.have 5 modes = it can fire up very low light or super strong light , this is why z1 will never match htc one in flash light photos , especially if photos are 1/2+ meters away , z1 is useless in this distance.
As for ceiling HTC one gets better flash photos when there are walls then when there aren't.
I can take photo outdoor pitch black about 5/7 meters away , indoor I can go up to 10 , if I increase exposure and lower contrast I can go even further.
HTC one also in long distance low light photos can take hdr + flash light = it gathers light from flash as well and makes overall picture more light.
With 4:3 HTC one also makes better photos then in 16:9 also sharper.
By the time z1 gets / if it gets fixed we will have updates as well + one 2 will be out by that time and more fair comparison would be one 2 due being newer 4/5 month's instead comparison vs HTC one which is 7 months older
As for Xperia Z I've took test with my cousins as well since they had XZ before z1 , I've literally raped Xz , I'll ask them to send me that test and upload it as well.
As for movement + picturing z1 will never match HTC ZOE.
here few samples for you so you see why :sly:
Btw all this pics were quiet tricky movement and impossible with burst shot or regular , but ZOE handles movement quiet easy.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
If I am to judge, I'd say for the most part, the z1 does seem more pleasing. You seem to be abusing the hdr alot on the Htc one. The colors are washed out as hell. I can tell because I use the htc one as well.
I'll say this, neither the z1 nor the HTC One's hdr are good. Only the HTC One has a minor advantage.
If you are going to use HDR, set your ISO to 100, AF/AE lock on a bright light source AND THEN switch to HDR. This way your HDR will look much better than just using HDR right off the bat.
The first pic, I used HDR right off the bat. Looks washed out, basically it looks terrible
The second pic, I set ISO100, AE/AF lock on my ceiling light, switched to HDR. Much better colors.
Shan89 said:
I'm sorry I can't bother answering to all questions etc , simply just take a look at photos and you got answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too bad, i guess it will fall upon somebody else to challenge otherwise my points stand.
Z1 isn't ready for a HDR shootout. It is ready for non-hdr manual shootout. When i have time i will select the non-hdr shots in your group and we will see the differences.
Shan89 said:
As for fllash HTC one has smart flash = we.have 5 modes = it can fire up very low light or super strong light , this is why z1 will never match htc one in flash light photos , especially if photos are 1/2+ meters away , z1 is useless in this distance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This bit is interesting. i don't think any other android camera can vary the intensity of flash light based upon what the camera sees. This is an advantage with indoor shots. Does not mean you cannot get acceptable ones in Z1 or any other that does not have this ability, its just harder. And once you know what to do its no longer harder.
So I'm not going with ease of use, i'm interested in whether its possible to take the shot or not. This is a better indication of limitations.
Shan89 said:
HTC one also in long distance low light photos can take hdr + flash light = it gathers light from flash as well and makes overall picture more light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok
Shan89 said:
I can take photo outdoor pitch black about 5/7 meters away , indoor I can go up to 10 , if I increase exposure and lower contrast I can go even further.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Useful but difficult to get right. People look more cold than warm. This is why the push to improve low light handling so there is little need to use flash in the first place. Flash photography on a mobile phone is difficult.
Shan89 said:
With 4:3 HTC one also makes better photos then in 16:9 also sharper.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surprising as i thought htc one has a native 16:9 sensor. Everybody else uses 4:3. So smaller pics come out better with 4:3 than 16:9.
So i'd have thought 16:9 is best aspect ratio for htc one.
Shan89 said:
By the time z1 gets / if it gets fixed we will have updates as well + one 2 will be out by that time and more fair comparison would be one 2 due being newer 4/5 month's instead comparison vs HTC one which is 7 months older
As for Xperia Z I've took test with my cousins as well since they had XZ before z1 , I've literally raped Xz , I'll ask them to send me that test and upload it as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, do that lets see the difference. Ensure the exifs are visible. After looking at the photo thread for Z, i changed my mind about what most people think about the Z. I would like to understand in which way the htc one 'rapes' the Z
I note that htc one does not indicate which firmware number is being used. So can you mention which one was used to take your photos.
Shan89 said:
As for movement + picturing z1 will never match HTC ZOE.
here few samples for you so you see why :sly:
Btw all this pics were quiet tricky movement and impossible with burst shot or regular , but ZOE handles movement quiet easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't follow, with enough light you have a fast shutter speed so why is it hard to get those shots ?
What does ZOE do here that you cannot do without it.
Anyone think the even the Z1 has as good as if not better camera than the S5?
Think the Z2 will be much better than the S5.
Phonearena talk a load of crap though, last year they said the Z1 was much better than the S4 and recently they did another comparison saying the S4 was better than the Z1?
Yesterday they did a comparison involving the Z1 and S5 and said the Z1 was better indoors and detail was equal but the S5 was better in lowlight and at night? I highly doubt that.
This a proper review from Anandtech was are very reliable anandtech.com/show/7903/samsung-galaxy-s-5-review/2 this shows that the Z1 has a better camera than the S5.
Stuff say the Z2 is better than the S5 as does Wired, today trusted reviews seemed to think the S5 was better in quite a few shots? but they were using superior auto in lowlight on the Z2 so of course thats gonna make the S5 look better?
Cnet review yesterday cnet.com/uk/products/sony-xperia-z2/ shows that in all but one pic the Z2 is better than the S5.
What do you guys think? I personally think the Z1 can at least match or better the new S5 and that's before the Z2 destroys the S5.
Apologies for not being able to post full links as I don't have 10 posts yet.
justcurious31 said:
Anyone think the even the Z1 has as good as if not better camera than the S5?
Think the Z2 will be much better than the S5.
Phonearena talk a load of crap though, last year they said the Z1 was much better than the S4 and recently they did another comparison saying the S4 was better than the Z1?
Yesterday they did a comparison involving the Z1 and S5 and said the Z1 was better indoors and detail was equal but the S5 was better in lowlight and at night? I highly doubt that.
This a proper review from Anandtech was are very reliable anandtech.com/show/7903/samsung-galaxy-s-5-review/2 this shows that the Z1 has a better camera than the S5.
Stuff say the Z2 is better than the S5 as does Wired, today trusted reviews seemed to think the S5 was better in quite a few shots? but they were using superior auto in lowlight on the Z2 so of course thats gonna make the S5 look better?
Cnet review yesterday cnet.com/uk/products/sony-xperia-z2/ shows that in all but one pic the Z2 is better than the S5.
What do you guys think? I personally think the Z1 can at least match or better the new S5 and that's before the Z2 destroys the S5.
Apologies for not being able to post full links as I don't have 10 posts yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at both reviews, I think you're correct.
Z1 is better than S5 in terms of camera capture and in turn, Z2 "should" be better than Z1.
S5 is getting hosed in low light captures which is where you will get the best bang for your buck. At decent lighting, I wouldn't call any marginal differences a compelling reason for a purchase decision.
i am rly disappointed with s5 indoor shots
but in bright light ,,, i can say the s5 is the winner
ASAB1594 said:
i am rly disappointed with s5 indoor shots
but in bright light ,,, i can say the s5 is the winner
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, a clear winner. z2 pictures show lack of detials and are extremely noisy, really bad camera for daily usage.
All the reviews have been praising the z2 camera, not sure where you guys are getting that its poor.
S5 is the best camera except low light. There is a software update that will improve this but not eliminate issue.
M8 is best if you arent into cropping.
Z2 is good in bright light, not so hot otherwise. But not as good as the S5. The Z2 has the potential to be top, but Sony need more optimistation which could happen.
Lolento said:
Looking at both reviews, I think you're correct.
Z1 is better than S5 in terms of camera capture and in turn, Z2 "should" be better than Z1.
S5 is getting hosed in low light captures which is where you will get the best bang for your buck. At decent lighting, I wouldn't call any marginal differences a compelling reason for a purchase decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
progosu said:
yeah, a clear winner. z2 pictures show lack of detials and are extremely noisy, really bad camera for daily usage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
REALLY?!?! I had the s5 and the z2 is by far the better camera. I really didn't like the over sharpened look. Colour and exposure are way better on the z2.
The s5 has a lot of features crammed into the software..of which most are pretty cack. The software is also laggy. But I suppose picture quality is subjective but to me the z2 takes the better picture overall...and more often than not for me indoor shots are more important as even if the s5 was supposedly better outdoors it is marginal... The z2 is consistent across the board!!!
But just my two pence worth.
Sent from my D6503 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
gavinfabl said:
S5 is the best camera except low light. There is a software update that will improve this but not eliminate issue.
M8 is best if you arent into cropping.
Z2 is good in bright light, not so hot otherwise. But not as good as the S5. The Z2 has the potential to be top, but Sony need more optimistation which could happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but m8 having best camera if no cropping? It overexposes colors in bright light and is grainy!
Raggi01 said:
Sorry but m8 having best camera if no cropping? It overexposes colors in bright light and is grainy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it doesn't. I've used it.
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
gavinfabl said:
No it doesn't. I've used it.
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
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First picture the M8 is the first one, found on the top left and Z2 is the last one, bottom right. Second picture is m8. Third is Z2. I dont know about you my friend, but the m8 overexposes alot and looks very grainy
Also the Z2 has the best image stabilization.
I know topic is not about Galaxy Note 3, but as i own it. Here's a comparison of camera between Note 3 and Z2. Both in Auto mode (Note 3: 9 MP - Z2 : 8 MP)
Note 3:
Z2:
Note 3:
Z2:
Note 3:
Z2:
Note 3:
Z2:
Now some images from Z2:
Mano1982 said:
I know topic is not about Galaxy Note 3, but as i own it. Here's a comparison of camera between Note 3 and Z2. Both in Auto mode (Note 3: 9 MP - Z2 : 8 MP)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man the rice and pizza is making me hungry. Those rusks at the end don't look too bad either.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
mujj said:
Man the rice and pizza is making me hungry. Those rusks at the end don't look too bad either.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha :laugh: Mission accomplished
Slightly disappointed
I for one am quite disappointed with the Z2. At least from all the reviews. I will probably still get it but was expecting more from its camera.
Most reviews praise it but then it seems their photos are contradicting. There just seems to be WAY too much post processing or noise or something. not noise in the general low light sense but really annoying weird black strips and otherwise pastel color look.
I figured, well the Z2 should have a better camera with their "Sony camera tech and lens" phone compared to Samsung's S5.
But from these images, that seems not to be the case and also contradicts with the reviewers saying that the Z2 is sharper or has more detail...
Im really hoping that maybe with a custom rom, or kernel with the hacked camera parameters or code that this would be fixed.
I saw the Z1 section having better camera mods but have not had any personal experience with them.
Or maybe a camera app like fv-5 can take the raw images. I don't know.
These pictures were taken from a couple review sites and zoomed in. other sites were pretty similar in results.
I don't care too much for color of pictures taken, that can always be fixed. A destroyed details cant be fixed..
Trees
S5 - trees with flowers
Z2 - looks more like a painting with green with white spots for trees..
Grass
S5 - normal grass
Z2 - coleslaw???
Crane
S5 - more detail
Z2 - less visible branches and crane parts etc.
Wall
S5 - smooth looking
Z2 - more blurred sure, but not smooth, black strips everywhere
Clearly less detail in Z2.
Hope someone can maybe shed some light on this. These reviews are really confusing and disappointing when compared to the S5.
So if this is whats its like then I have to disagree with many here. The Z2 camera is worse than the S5, and there for there is no way the Z1 is better either.
Please prove me wrong.
Da Iceman said:
....contradicts with the reviewers saying that the Z2 is sharper or has more detail...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest I haven't seen any reviews/comparisons that say that the Z2 is sharper (than the s5). Where are these reviews and do they back it up with pics?
I didn't see those reviews too. Everytime i read z2 is less sharp than others. But pls remember that all these tests were made with automatic mode 8mp. With manual mode and 20 mp z2 is equal or better than s5. I would like to see a test with manual mode on every device.
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KevinB88 said:
I didn't see those reviews too. Everytime i read z2 is less sharp than others. But pls remember that all these tests were made with automatic mode 8mp. With manual mode and 20 mp z2 is equal or better than s5. I would like to see a test with manual mode on every device.
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As someone who has been using the Z2 the last few days, I don't think this is accurate. The reality is, one mode isn't sharper than the other on the Z2. Sometimes auto is sharper, sometimes manual is sharper, generally auto seems to be sharper overall. In manual mode, unless it's placebo, from my testing the "Pet" scene option seems to yield the sharpest results compared to other modes in manual, but we're talking by a fraction.
I would say based on what I've seen, whilst the Z2 can be sharper than the S5 in shots, it's generally only on rarer occasion. By in large the S5 is sharper and more detailed in most shots comparatively. But I think that's largely down to some in-house sharpening that's added to the S5 with internal processing. You could always add some sharpness to your Z2 manually in Photoshop or whatever, though I doubt it would get rid of some of the smear that sometimes appears in Z2 shots.
Personally I think the S5 has the better camera overall, with more detail, sharpness and better white balance accuracy overall. Some of the modes work better too, like beauty mode for example. It also has more megapixels for use with scene modes (Z2 drops down to 8mp for this). But the Z2 does have it's own benefits, for example I think it's background de-focus works better, and add to that the camera is more wide angle (better for landscape and group shots), the fill flash option is awesome (flash use without glaring over exposed faces), and lastly, it seems to have just a touch more bokeh, which can make shots look a bit more DSLR like when viewed normally.
I'll do some more proper comparisons before reaching a final conclusion, and will also try and post some comparison shots on these forums if I can.
I'm coming from s3 so it doesn't matter to me if s5 is better but z2 is much better than s3. And as smartphone camera no-one should complain about it. I think dedicate camera button is an advantage over s5 too.
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gavinfabl said:
S5 is the best camera except low light. There is a software update that will improve this but not eliminate issue.
M8 is best if you arent into cropping.
Z2 is good in bright light, not so hot otherwise. But not as good as the S5. The Z2 has the potential to be top, but Sony need more optimistation which could happen.
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I have the z2 and to put it simply, it's got the best camera on any Android smartphone. Most sites even those that hate Sony still give the win to the z2 because it's that awesome. Obviously superior auto would never produce the best images but in the z2 it does a good job unlike previous Sony devices.
Do you actually have the z2 I wonder to be posting such comments. I've only done comparisons against the iPhone 5s, S4, Z, z1, and note 3 and it beats all of them hands down especially at 8mp. If Basil over at btekt recons the z2's camera is better than the s5 then I'll take his word for it. He is one of the most honest reviewers out there.
Let's face it, no reviewer is biased towards Sony. If you think the z2's camera is ****, good luck finding a better one. Pretty sure you don't have one.
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I'll take back the sharper, but details they do mention.
Either way, they seem to praise the camera so much, but it feels like a let down in comparison.
Plus many calling it the best android camera phone.
Those pictures were from the review and they were at full megapixels. 20mp - Z2 and 16mp - S5
I didn't choose any that were that were 8mp vs 16mp or any that were off angle as that would be very unfair.
I just cropped into them to give examples of the details of each.
Im just hoping this is maybe a software thing.
We all give Sony a hard time for releasing flagship devices with mediocre camera performance. I personally can verify that my previous HTC phones (One mini, One S, and even the Ville aka MyTouch 4G) dating back nearly 4 years all had better color reproduction, white balance, indoor performance, and faster focus and shutter response. None of those were even considered flagship devices at the time of release. We assumed Sony's problem was the software, so many of us searched for 3rd party camera apps such as Google Camera, A Better Camera, Camera FV-5, etc... and some even claimed to get better results using these apps. I've tried just about all of them (free versions only) and never saw any dramatic improvement to make me replace the default camera app. I finally decided to compare shots side by side on a couple of my personal favorite camera apps and here's what I noticed:
The 3rd party apps over-exposed the scene with far too much flash, giving it that cold LED light look, and washing out some of the natural colors. But worst of all, they weren't as clear when zooming in as the default app was. Pay close attention to the can of WD40 in the back. Only the stock app makes the word "Directions" visibly clear. All photos were taken using Auto Mode at 8MP - the setting the average person will use daily.
Sample Photos In Order (from left to right):
- Sony Stock Camera App
- Google Camera App
- OpenCamera App
https://goo.gl/photos/ihkstAg95Ag8rybX7
I took a few comparison shots in scenes that I thought would cause the stock app to falter, but it kept coming through and beating the competition. For example, when taking a picture of a poster that was covered by a slight shadow, the stock app was the only app smart enough to use flash; thereby making the words of the poster much clearer. In another indoor scenario, the competition once again over exposed the scene with too much flash, washing out the colors again. I may post these photos later if you request them.
Moral of the story:
Compared to other smartphones (especially flagships), Sony's camera is simply one of the worst performers. <-----(This is a click-able link to the results of a test article) There is no argument here and someone from Sony needs to do something about it. But as for the stock Sony camera app, it appears to utilize the camera better than 3rd party apps can. So if you want to make the best of out our bad situation, stick with the stock camera app.
I agree that the camera on the Z3C is somewhat lacking.
Outdoors in good light it can produce some really nice photos (some of the time) although even in good conditions it still seems to make a mess of things on occasions. Indoors and low light it's just plain terrible. I've done a back to back comparison with my rather elderly SGS3 and in most circumstances the SGS3 knocks the spots off the Z3C.
The problem is marketing.
In order to produce compelling marketing material, Sony developed the 20MP sensor and put this in all their flagship phones. This is way too many MP for such a small sensor and as such the quality suffers badly in anything other than bright sunlight. Even when interpolating the image down to 8MP you still see way more noise than the equivalent true 8MP sensor and the details are mushed to buggery. I'd be happy for the resolution on smartphones to top out at 10MP, which should be enough for 4K video and multiple aspect ratios (not that I think 4K video from a smartphone has much use).
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
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Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
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Click to collapse
We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.
As a photographer, you of all people should understand that a camera phone is not likely to be used when taking serious photos. This is designed to be a point and shoot replacement for selfies, pictures of food, group photos of friends in a restaurant, etc... This phone's camera isn't a complete failure by any means, but it simply doesn't perform as well as phones from 2-3 years ago under the most basic condition (indoors). I'm just finding it difficult to explain why my $500 flagship phone takes overexposed, blurry photos when my old phones (none of which were even flagship models) did not.
Starlith said:
We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.
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I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.
mad-marco said:
I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.
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I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.
Starlith said:
I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.
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I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.
PuffDaddy_d said:
I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.
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When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
and if you came from a Nokia flagship this difference is even bigger ....
Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
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I've already got several DSLR's thanks very much. I don't think that anyone is expecting DSLR like quality, in fact you seem to be the only person who has brought this up.
I think that what people would like is the the camera on Sony's flagship smartphones to be comparable with other smartphones, especially the ones that have the same sensor hardware!!! It's a disappointment that the 2/3 year old SGS3 produces superior photos than the current Sony flagships, the current Samsung 16MP cameras are vastly superior.
Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
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You have completely missed the point of this thread. It has nothing to do with expecting DSLR quality from a camera phone. We just don't want pictures to look like they were taken from a flip phone from 2006 - which is what this camera looks like when taking photos indoors. A flagship phone needs a flagship camera, and Sony's image processing has left us without, while all other major manufacturers are using some form of Sony image sensor and getting much better results.
But as my original post indicates, the best photos I've been able to get from this camera are with the stock camera app. All others seem to fall short when viewed on a larger screen.
ray_J13 said:
Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
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Seems to me the camera glass on her Z3C was a bit smudged... That would explain the haze.
And the small details on the Z3C look much better and cleaner at 100% zoom than on the Meizu, even if the Z3C was a bit out of focus.
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I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
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Crewville96 said:
I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
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Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
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I can upload the vids and couple pics. None of the pics are really the same for comparison since i was in the crowd at the concert though. But you can get a general idea.
PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
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Here's my vids. One is from my old Droid Incredible 2 (2011, running GB) the other is from my Z3C (2014, running LP). I'll let you guys judge which vid is better.
That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.
PuffDaddy_d said:
That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.
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Yep, just cleaner and sharper overall. Thats the Droid Incredible 2 video (720 only as well, Z3C is at 1080 lol).