Database Users

G2 rootkit, prevents any permenant modification.

Just as the title stated Gizmodo has an article on how g2 revert to stock after reboot. This makes me feel better about owning a vibrant because of samsung lackluster support. Anyway, the point of this thread is about the " root kit" and your thought, discussion, etc
I personally think this is a low blow on htc part, especially looking at their track record with android.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Edit: now I have access to a computer here's the link to article (which summarize and link back what is already here at G2 forum, haha)
http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
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they apparently can't even remove bloatware as it reinstalls upon reboot

Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

masterotaku said:
Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I agreed that the developers here will have no problem figuring out the backdoor as they are awesome. However, one can not ignore the fact that HTC which is known to promote customization, decided to install this type of "rootkit". Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
Makes me wonder if it is T-Mobile who requested the system to be put in place.

Its more accurate to say that HTC has been in the game longer with popular android handsets than deliberately having been more open than others. It might seem a tad ironic given the level of impatience with Samsung over updates and whatnot but they have been far more open with the galaxy s than pretty much any other manufacturer and any other phone....HTC included...
If its any consolation the non Tmobile version of this phone seems to have the same restrictions.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.

Now you mentioned it, it was really easy to root and modify the phone compare to other phones "traditional" methods.
It is understandable of why people (myself included) were anxious of Samsung as they have horrible update history compare to HTC or Motorola in recent times. If Samsung can push out their update in a more timely manner, I wouldn't put it pass myself to say that Galaxy S is the best android phone on the market.
Perhaps the rollback is due to internal bugs similar to the storage issues G2 is having as well which is possible considered that a messaged up storage would not keep the changes made.

i'm sure this rootkit won't be a problem for long.

funeralthirst said:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7089/whatrootkit.jpg
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the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.

byt3b0mb said:
the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
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i know it was a joke, which is why i took down the link. but it was funny.
this isn't a violation, though. the act of jailbreaking/rooting a phone is legal, but that doesn't mean manufacturers can't try and restrict/prevent people from doing it.

devcurious said:
IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that HTC didn't want it, but T-Mobile did. They removed tethering from the 2.2 build. They know that the first thing that rooters do is install tethering software to their Android devices. So yeah, TMO prolly asked HTC to block root so that people wouldn't be tethering all the time.
On 7.2 devices, that wasn't a big issue, but the G2 can theoretically get up to twice as fast as our Vibrants, and with TMO only using 10mhz or so for their HSPA+ deployments, they're probably concerned with too much tethering hurting network performance.

I love how the arguments on that website keep pointing to how its going to ruin android and how android is open source. Last time I checked Android is an operating system not hardware. Either T-mobile locked it or HTC. I'm going to bet like everybody else that its T-Mobiles doing.
The only thing its going to do honestly is piss off future buyers and they will either avoid that phone or wait for it to be rooted. When the G1 came out I waited until it was rooted then I bought. Vibrant I waited until it was confrimed to be rooted. Of course that was nearly before it hit the market so I bought nearly the day it was available.
So T-Mobile I hope you don't mind loosing sales on that model because its going to happen. I was -| |- close to buying that for my wife. I guess now its not going to happen and if she wants something else first then well you lost her business.

if assholes wouldn't tether 5+ gigs (or way way more) a month then come to the forums bragging about it....we might not have this issue
but people want to abuse it and use tethering for ****ing torrents
morons

But what a boneheaded move. They must have known that many people wanted the G2 as a successor to the N1 as a dev phone.

Why is this in the vibrant section, this has nothing to do with the vibrant
The cake is a lie!

Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?

im sure the devs will figure out a way around this pretty quick lol

PaiPiePia said:
Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
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And what is malware? Any app that reads your SMS? Well, Handcent needs to do that.
Any app that can dial? Google Maps can do that (not to mention the many Dialer replacements).
Any app that requests GPS? Well, if it's not in /system & your GPS is turned off, it can't turn it back on & if you want that app to remain free, the advertiser wants to target market.
Any app that sends your data someplace? Then just about everything on the phone is useless.
How can you look through the app & determine what is malware? Inspect the sourcecode manually? Some apps take nearly a year to get approved for the iDevices. Devs would abandon the Android Market if that started happening pretty quickly. The iDevices have a proven $ turnaround while Android has a pretty hefty piracy rate & others that just don't want to pay for any app because they shouldn't have to because the OS is open and free and so should the apps be.
byt3b0mb said:
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
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Just because it is legal for you to do it doesn't mean it is illegal for the manufacturer to make it as hard on you as possible.
trashcan said:
Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?
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That would make complete sense since they effectively need to keep a backup of the OS on hand in case you delete something....with most phones if you delete it, it's gone, you can't factory format back to stock (without a proper backup).
Since this was pretty much advertised as an upgrade to the G1 (hence the name and it coming out just about 2 years later), and most G1 owners were basically tech savvy people, this can't be good for HTC or TMO. This phone more than most others (excepting the N1) is the phone that the people who WANT root would be upgrading to (except for those of us that already swapped to the Vibrant).

Oops 10chars

HTC rocks!!!!!!!

Pressure on Tmobile

This shows that the chip issue is bothering more than just consumers. Hopefully this pressure will help us maintain control over our phones.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-sour...r-android-becoming-a-political-liability/7588
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

Ghostcreamy said:
This shows that the chip issue is bothering more than just consumers. Hopefully this pressure will help us maintain control over our phones.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-sour...r-android-becoming-a-political-liability/7588
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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*sigh*
What chip issue exactly?

Stick it to Google, T-mobile... The cellphone manufacturers are starting to imprint chips to bypass any OS modifications... I can clearly say "it's only a matter of time until this cheapy little chip is cracked."

At this point it really doesn't matter if its a chip, a bug or bad juju big brother is starting to take notice and that is good for us.

Wow, so why doesn't anyone ever bring up the Droid X? Or this this just mainly a ploy to take aim at T-mobile?
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

This is indeed very good news for the customer (like us) who like to do more than just accept how the phone comes. Keep up the pressure people! =)

krayshunist said:
*sigh*
What chip issue exactly?
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Seconded.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

janus zeal said:
Seconded.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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This chip is why we cant have Perma Root. Look for Root thread and you will see what i mean and a much better explanation hehe

Ehh... this article is bull****. It's just some more hype written by another Android user for ZDNet. If you look at the sourced article, it does not mention any impending predicament for Schmidt and barely talks about Google. This just hype... for example:
The ZDnet author writes in his article:
It is now obvious that it’s the latter step Google took with Android and folks in Washington are starting to take notice.
The cited article doesn't mention a political quandary headed by Google. It can be summarized well by the last sentence. And the only relevance to Google and Schmidt in that article is a short blurb referring to another blog post on the same site.
The fundamental question the FCC now needs to answer is not if developers will find a way around the latest blocks, but if companies should be allowed to continue actively blocking users from truly owning and having full control over the mobile devices they buy in the first place.
and
On Tuesday October 5, 2010 the New America Foundation posted a blog highlighting a new “feature” of the T-Mobile's G2 with Google phone (G2).
Following that link takes us to the New American Foundation site which posted the following on Oct 5th (with an update on the 7th):
Unfortunately, the G2 also comes with built-in hardware that restricts what software a device owner might wish to install.
and
Clearly, the included software on T-Mobile's phone overrides a user's rights to run the legal software and applications of their choice. Instead, a microchip on the new T-Mobile Android phone acts just like a virus -- overwriting a user's preferred software and changing preferences and settings to change settings and software to conform to the desires of a third party. Users of the new "T-Mobile G2 with Google" phone should be warned that their device will overwrite their software modifications. We are seeking further clarification as to the legality of this software.
As you can see this is between the FCC, T-Mobile and possibly HTC. I don't foresee Google taking any real interest in this because it can only cost them money. Sure Google has made some noble contributions, but how much can they gain from protecting their interests? Not an awful much in this case. Mobile phone manufacturers and network providers will keep using the Android operating system. And the fact that Google licensed the Android operating system does not readily mean they are entitled to enforce it.
If you are interested in the legality of enforcing a license like the GPL, I highly suggest reading: http://www.jltp.uiuc.edu/archives/kumar.pdf
Here's a blurb that describes the predicament:
Two competing theories attempt to explain why the GPL is
enforceable. The first theory, backed by the GPL’s creator Richard
Stallman, declares that the GPL is a non-contractual license, rather than
a contract. Eben Moglen, general counsel for Stallman’s Free Software
Foundation (“FSF”), has stated that “[l]icenses are not contracts: the
work’s user is obliged to remain within the bounds of the license not
because she voluntarily promised, but because she doesn’t have any right
to act at all except as the license permits.”28 This theory presents
problems, because it does not account for the possibility of the licensor
withdrawing the license to the detriment of the licensee. Draft 2 of GPL
v.3 states that “[a]ll rights granted under this License are granted for the
term of copyright on the Program, and are irrevocable provided the stated
conditions are met.”29 However, the draft provides no guidance regarding
what kind of legal remedy is available to a licensee if the licensor
attempts to revoke previously granted rights.
The second theory holds that the GPL is a contract. This theory is
plausible, because traditional software licenses are generally interpreted
as contracts. But such licenses also have cash consideration. Contract
proponents argue that consideration does exist under the GPL. But
ultimately, they are unable to show that there is a meeting of minds
between the licensor and licensee, thus failing the requirements of
contract formation.
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funkeee said:
Ehh... this article is bull****. It's just some more hype written by another Android user for ZDNet. If you look at the sourced article, it does not mention any impending predicament for Schmidt and barely talks about Google. This just hype... for example:
The ZDnet author writes in his article:
It is now obvious that it’s the latter step Google took with Android and folks in Washington are starting to take notice.
The cited article doesn't mention a political quandary headed by Google. It can be summarized well by the last sentence. And the only relevance to Google and Schmidt in that article is a short blurb referring to another blog post on the same site.
The fundamental question the FCC now needs to answer is not if developers will find a way around the latest blocks, but if companies should be allowed to continue actively blocking users from truly owning and having full control over the mobile devices they buy in the first place.
and
On Tuesday October 5, 2010 the New America Foundation posted a blog highlighting a new “feature” of the T-Mobile's G2 with Google phone (G2).
Following that link takes us to the New American Foundation site which posted the following on Oct 5th (with an update on the 7th):
Unfortunately, the G2 also comes with built-in hardware that restricts what software a device owner might wish to install.
and
Clearly, the included software on T-Mobile's phone overrides a user's rights to run the legal software and applications of their choice. Instead, a microchip on the new T-Mobile Android phone acts just like a virus -- overwriting a user's preferred software and changing preferences and settings to change settings and software to conform to the desires of a third party. Users of the new "T-Mobile G2 with Google" phone should be warned that their device will overwrite their software modifications. We are seeking further clarification as to the legality of this software.
As you can see this is between the FCC, T-Mobile and possibly HTC. I don't foresee Google taking any real interest in this because it can only cost them money. Sure Google has made some noble contributions, but how much can they gain from protecting their interests? Not an awful much in this case. Mobile phone manufacturers and network providers will keep using the Android operating system. And the fact that Google licensed the Android operating system does not readily mean they are entitled to enforce it.
If you are interested in the legality of enforcing a license like the GPL, I highly suggest reading: http://www.jltp.uiuc.edu/archives/kumar.pdf
Here's a blurb that describes the predicament:
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Whatever... It's whatever you want it to be... Stop trying to ruin the excitement here...

I think the real issue her is the we own the phone and have the right to install or uninstall any application we want that is not integral to the proper operation of the phone without needing root access. This just isn't a T-mobile issue either, all cell providers do the same thing. I doubt it will change anytime soon without the government getting involved.

naria01 said:
Whatever... It's whatever you want it to be... Stop trying to ruin the excitement here...
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You can also try thinking for yourself as opposed to accepting everything you read, whether it's my post or the article.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

just out of curiosity
is it possible that by "rooting" our phones we would then be able to circumvent some of the failsafes or even bypass billing processes that our network providers have in place?
if there is even the slightest hint of a yes then i would say that any network provider would be entitled to take "reasonable" action to protect their investment as im sure that in any contract or terms of use guide the networks have there would be a section saying something similiar, if not more wordy and legal'ish

Regardless of sensationalism or whatever this is good for us.. I just can't believe the responses here or hell in most of the G2 forums. Most of you are like puppies who will lay over just for a corporate tummy rub. WTF! Why are the "this phone rocks root or not!!11!!" people even on a DEVELOPER website? Jesus people you are either with or against the thing that made cyanogenmod a household name....open android.
I can clearly say XDA was not founded on the principal of HEY MY PHONE CAME JUST THE WAY I LIKED IT....AHHH THANKS HTC.
Please get behind the cause people.

funkeee said:
You can also try thinking for yourself as opposed to accepting everything you read, whether it's my post or the article.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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Let me guess... you voted for obama...

naria01 said:
Let me guess... you voted for obama...
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No.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

naria01 said:
Let me guess... you voted for obama...
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WTF...does voting for Obama have to do with this.....some people.
Sent from my DETHFONE (G2)

OP thanks for the link to the info it was interesting to know that more than just consumers are taking notice even if it doesn't go very far.
Mod, please close this thread before its dominated by "truck stop politics." This isn't the place to discuss who voted for who and why or why not it was a good idea.

moodecow said:
just out of curiosity
is it possible that by "rooting" our phones we would then be able to circumvent some of the failsafes or even bypass billing processes that our network providers have in place?
if there is even the slightest hint of a yes then i would say that any network provider would be entitled to take "reasonable" action to protect their investment as im sure that in any contract or terms of use guide the networks have there would be a section saying something similiar, if not more wordy and legal'ish
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Click to collapse
... no. Billing is done on carrier side, not on the phone. In fact, the carrier doesn't even know which phone you're currently using, and they don't really care beyond forcing you to buy certain plans with certain phones.
Snuggl3s said:
This chip is why we cant have Perma Root. Look for Root thread and you will see what i mean and a much better explanation hehe
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Click to collapse
Did you even read the root threads you just referenced? If so, you clearly don't understand what's in them so read the wiki.

I find it odd that the article that the OP linked to mentions T-Mobile's claims of a poorly coded app almost bringing the network down helps they argument for blocking root. The problem is, based on what I can from the TmoNews article on the app, that app had nothing to do with rooting. Any attempt to link that app to root problems for carriers is pure FUD.
Is it too much to ask that T-Mobile just come out and say that rooting and flashing ROMs leads to higher support costs? Then we can at least have an honest debate.

Xoom 4G Upgrade Only for Unrooted Devices?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/220966/no_lte_for_rooted_motorola_xooms.html
This article paints a rather oblique picture yet it goes hand in hand with Motorola's M.O. Needless to say, the device can always be unrooted, but it still sucks...

egzthunder1 said:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/220966/no_lte_for_rooted_motorola_xooms.html
This article paints a rather oblique picture yet it goes hand in hand with Motorola's M.O. Needless to say, the device can always be unrooted, but it still sucks...
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Yeah I saw that. I mean really, are they going to make a big stink about that? That would mean they are prying into your personal info which is why this whole sending in to get the upgrade crap sucks. They should not even turn it on.

keitht said:
Yeah I saw that. I mean really, are they going to make a big stink about that? That would mean they are prying into your personal info which is why this whole sending in to get the upgrade crap sucks. They should not even turn it on.
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Unless there is a software upgrade required for the 4G to work and if its rooted the update won't apply correctly. It should be simple enough to revert it to stock before sending it in though.

How is this different than any other device? lol people have been having to unroot their phones for years in order to send back in for repair/service/etc...

imo moto needs to get their panties out of a knot and relax when it comes to hackers
pretty much only techie people will root their phones and install custom firmware not your average joe, if its anything they should let the techies do their thing while still offering services like this(upgrades only NOT repairs)

The moderator from motorola wasnt reffering to the 4g upgrade he meant software otas

Yeah, Matt was referring to ota updates. I frequent the support forums over at motorola, and he said when he gets more info that he will put it out. I covered it in the sticky post this morning after I read that news article. Sorry, posting from my phone, or I would givea link to the forum post where he covered that issue.

generic.imitation said:
Yeah, Matt was referring to ota updates. I frequent the support forums over at motorola, and he said when he gets more info that he will put it out. I covered it in the sticky post this morning after I read that news article. Sorry, posting from my phone, or I would givea link to the forum post where he covered that issue.
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Ill save you the trouble
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45865?tstart=0
Read post 6

A friend and I got into a discussion about the very same thing but the subject was about WHO really owns what you bought.
If you think about this, anything YOU buy outright with hard earned greenbacks, is NOT really yours to begin with. Everything today comes with a WARRANTY and legal DISCLAIMERS with any product you buy these days, it essentially says that said product will be covered as long as you don't abuse said product in it's ORIGINAL MANUFACTURED STATE !
It's funny but when you really think about this and life, it sucks !
Who could ever imagine that that piece of land with garbage and tires and whatnot, could make someone RICH by landscaping it into a CEMETERY. You go rent a small portion of dirt so when your time comes, you have some place where they could bury you, how IRONIC ! especially when you have to pay for upkeep costs.

Just follow the Re-locking instructions in this [GUIDE] Unlocking (& Re-locking) the Motorola Xoom for flashing thread and all is good?

wnrussell said:
Just follow the Re-locking instructions in this [GUIDE] Unlocking (& Re-locking) the Motorola Xoom for flashing thread and all is good?
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Click to collapse
I would be careful relocking. I've heard of a few people bricking their phones (no adb, no fastboot, no recovery) trying to flash back to stock. Wait around a bit longer for the process to get ironed out IMO.

none of my $$ for moto anyway
Not sure why this is such a surprise. I wouldn't expect Motorola to service a rooted, or hacked device in any way.. nor would I expect that from HTC, Samsung, LG.. you get the point.
Now if they had some super secret chip that can tell if was EVER rooted and were denying upgrades.. THAT would be news. (But still not a surprise)
Regardless, since Motorola wants to be a bunch of pricks about their hardware (Atrix).. They will never see a dime from me unless this policy changes (Atrix).. and even then.. it may simply be too late. I believe in the power of the consumer and I just wish everyone else did.
MOTO is just below Sony and Apple on my SH$^% list. I was already boycotting Sony over their Playstation policy and the devices general crappyness, but Suing George Hotz for hacking a device HE purchased AND owns, and THEN making a motion (and winning) to seize and rifle through all of George's personal computers and data storage devices that he also owns is the epitome of hypocritical. I wont even PAY to see a Movie if Sony Pictures is involved.. (Thanks Bit-Torrent).
Sorry.. straying off topic.. So If you care about having the best hardware and it's made by a company who treats their customers like crap.. you have 2 choices.. 1) Buy the hardware anyway, and settle for being treated like crap, or 2) Settle for lesser hardware from a company you don't mind giving your money to.
While they had a rocky start... I'm looking forward to giving my money to Notion Ink for their Adam Tablet (as soon as they manufacturer enough to begin selling them again). They make solid hardware, and while the software needs improvement.. They are promising Honeycomb and they seem to have embraced the modders and hackers who make the device better. I hope it lasts.

Hope everyone's enjoying their xooms. That's what you get for buying one knowing Moto's policies. Let's keep sending money to the very company that's trying to strip us of our rights. Surely, that will change their policies.

For those still wondering, the thread has been updated by Motorola clarifying the issue.
All Motorola XOOM tablets on the Verizon Wireless network are eligible to receive an upgrade to support 4G LTE. This includes those that have been unlocked; however, those units must be submitted for upgrade with the original factory software reinstalled and the device relocked in order to receive the upgrade.
For devices that are returned unlocked, Motorola will attempt to complete the upgrade, but may be unable to update the software. In these cases, the device will be returned to the consumer with just the 4G LTE modem installed.
More details on the process will be available closer to the upgrade availability.
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I can't post the direct link as I'm still a new user, but it's post #42 in the linked thread.

it will be upgraded
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45865?start=30&tstart=0

Originally Posted by p3droid

This was posted by p3droid on mydroidworld - many of us know him, or have at least heard of him. He knows what hes talking about, and this info is somewhat disturbing. This is just a copy/paste of his OP.
Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Background
​I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls​
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Motorola[/FONT][/FONT] working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Google[/FONT][/FONT] through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls​
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]HTC [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]devices[/FONT][/FONT])
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.​I think I posted my first angry message and [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]tweet[/FONT][/FONT] about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]program[/FONT][/FONT] that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.​The Rubber Meets the Road​
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.​3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]applications[/FONT][/FONT] can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).​The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers. "

**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.

Just thought of a potential solution. We could have someone develop a program which accepts these apps and finds whatever sort of signature the carriers are checking for. It can keep it on our phone and ping back to the carriers when queried.
Just a rough idea. But I know there are people far more intelligent than me that can get this done. Or perhaps something more ingenious. I have faith. It will be a nuisance but if we support our strongest devs we will get through this until the carriers piss the **** off.

Isn't Google throwing out the baby with the bathwater here? If the main objective of the carriers is to prevent unauthorized tethering, isn't there a way to do that without blocking root access?

bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my gut reaction as well. However...... Having spoken with a friend and engineer in the industry (I cannot say her name so take this quote with as much salt as needed) it was explained to me like this.
" Most cell carrier's infastructure are having a tough time dealing with the current customer load as it is. In fact, if you look at events where the influx of people can shut down networks such as AT&T ( the South by South West music fest in Austin TX for example) the cell carries are currently not too worried about losing, what they believe to be, a few customers.
Especially when you figure in the fact that you modding your phone and placing it on thier network is looked upon as you violating their contract. And as it was YOU who violated the contract in thier eyes, the cell carrier can continue charging you for your contract as well as making you purchase an "approved replacement handset"
I am not sure if this is truly the outlook of the carriers or simply the way one employee understands the situation to be......but it wouldnt surprise me if this was exactly how the dev community was viewed by them.
BUT, being around and playing with my phones for a few years now has taught me one thing. There are people on these forums with everybit the brains and know-how as the engineers the carriers employ. And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.

bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.

cegna09 said:
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.

Okay tracking rooted users is new to me. but I thought the rest was normal procedure?
...Root exploit>carrier update (patches root)>new root exploit>new carrier update (patches new root)>newest root exploit...
How is the op any different than current procedure.? Is it just the addition of carriers tracking rooted users that makes this post notable? Because it seems like scaremongering to me. Should I really be that concerned? I already knew att doesn't like me to tether without a plan, and will do what it can to stop me. I dont have any more reason to believe att will stop service to my phone now than before I read this post.

Basically what started all this guys, was theft of services (free tethering) Everyone who has used the free tethering 'hacks' are largely responsible for this movement. Had everyone modded their phones responsibly, and not stolen services from the carriers because they thought they 'had that right' then this would probably not be happening to the extent that it is. I, for one, do not nor have i ever used a free tethering hack. I have unlimited data and use that freely on my phone. I use my pc for web browsing when i have a lot to do online. Below is a quote from a friend of mine on the Atrixforums.com site that is a very good view and quite accurate interpretation of whats happening.
das8nt said:
Yeah, I always knew something like this was going to come down the pipe... it was only a matter of time.
The third part, The Rubber Meets the Road, has been added. I've had some more time to think about this, and I've come to realize a few things. The following is my opinion on the whole subject. It might not be a very popular one, and posting it is not meant to start a large debate or anything, I just wanted to express my feeling on the matter. Please do not take offense to any of the points I'm trying to make; hopefully some of you know me well enough so far to know that I don't mean offense to anyone.
Opinion starts here...
They're right. The manufacturers, the carriers... they're right. We may not like it, but in the end they both have the full say in what happens. I'll give a few examples in a moment as to why I see it this way, but first I need to let you know where I'm coming from. I have a rooted phone; it's not my first rooted phone. I have tethered; though not often or very much at all, but I have tethered without a tethering plan on my account. I have installed ROMs, custom kernels, MODs, hacks... you name it, I've done it. I enjoy it if only because I can. Did I do it because it was needed? In some circumstances, I might argue, "yes;" in others, not in the slightest... it was just fun. The point to this being is that I have done most of everything that is being discussed in the Food For Thought post; and I've done it because I wanted to.
That brings me to a first example. You buy a car; a $20k car at that. Say you pay cash for it; it's yours. You don't even have to have full coverage insurance on it if you don't want to (some states.) You bought it as you daily driver, but you want to make some mods to it: aftermarket exhaust, lowering kit, cool-air intake.... and nitrous. You can do all of those things.; there's no one stopping you. What you can't do though, is maintain a factory warranty on your new car if you install those mods. When you alter the build of the car you are losing your right to claim that that car was manufactured improperly since it's no longer in the same state in which it was delivered to you. No big deal, right? Nothing ever goes wrong until the warranty expires anyway, we all know that. So, you take it to a drag track to see what it can do; how fast can it go? How quick can it hit the quarter mile line? You want to be know as the fastest, so you don't hold back... you kick in the nitrous.... but there's a problem. You didn't realize that the car was not meant to take that kind of load the way it was built. You blow your engine. Is the dealership or manufacturer going to warranty that engine? Would you really expect them to?
Second example. The same car you purchased, before you ever take it to the track, you want to drive it.... I mean really drive it; feel the true power and handling on the road. You take it out on the Interstate because that has the highest speed limits. You quickly get it up to to 70 mph, but that's not enough. You need more. You start to push it a little farther; no big deal... law enforcement doesn't usually care if you're only going a few mph over the limit, right? Well, you haven't been caught yet, so why not push it a little more? Before you know it you're at 95 mph and you see blue lights coming up quick behind you. Is that office going to let you off the hook because you own the car, have it modded and you feel you can do what you want with it? Would you expect them to?
Yes, we buy the phones. Yes, we own them. Yes, we can mod them how ever we can. What we can't do, though, is agree to a service contract and expect the provider of that contract to allow us to ignore their rules and exploit their services to the point that it costs them money. They are a business. They are not in the business for giving away free service, or replace products because the end user did not use them as intended; if they were they would not be in business very long. The carrier has the right to charge what they do, whether we like it or not. We, as users, have the right to find service elsewhere (most of us) or do with out. We agree to their terms when we allow them to provide us service. You do not have to sign a contract to agree to their terms; activating your phone on their network makes the agreement for you. Manufacturers have the right to lock their phones down, after all, they manufacture them. They are not in business to provide two or three phones for the price of one just because we broke the first couple trying to make them do things they were not intended to do. Again, if they were then they wouldn't be in business very long. If we do not like their practices we can buy from others.
I guess what it all boils down to in my mind is that if modding and hacking had been used the right way, we, the modding community and it's followers, might not have this situation coming down on us. If we did it just to customize our phones the way we want them, I'm sure they would have allowed that and worked with us. Since the opposite has been true for the most part, it surprises me in no way that this is about to happen. Users have been 'jailbreaking' and 'rooting' their phones for years, with a vast majority of them being used to circumvent the rules. So, the rules are about to change... like it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

bongd said:
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.

cegna09 said:
The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure there are a slew of celebrity lawyers on speed dial, and I know that the Apple jailbreaking case will be strongly referenced if there is a class action lawsuit.
I also recognize and appreciate the circumstances regarding closing and finding exploits. It's always a game of cat and mouse. And it sucks having to find exploits and holes. Sometimes it's easy but sometimes it's extremely tough. I'm hoping it's not the latter.
In any event, I'm going to hold out. I know that there'll be a work around or at least a ton of backlash. You bring up a good point that it's a very small percentage of users who root. But that small percentage is virtually all made up of power users. While we're small in numbers, we're more intelligent than the tweenies who just get Androids for texting and Facebook.
I know that petitions and things like that normally don't get done (I never bothered with the bootloader petition for example) but I know that more constructive and intelligent users will chime in with glorious ideas to keep this **** at bay. I sincerely hope it was a late April fools day joke or something. I don't mind Google data mining and harvesting all my consumer logistics as long as they don't clamp down on my phone. Win win situation. I don't mind their parasitic or insidious intentions at all.

kdspiv said:
And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except Motorola's bootloaders.

jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).

RacecarBMW said:
Except Motorola's bootloaders.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?

Kueller said:
It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only someone was willing to risk their job

phobos512 said:
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.

ok i can sorta understand them wanting to stop free tethering, but why root in general, some people like adding custome roms, or tweaking themes to make their phone that THEY purchased look the way they want it to. I really don't use tether, but locking down root, that's just ridiculous...smh

No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
jgc121 said:
If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

phobos512 said:
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too have been modding vehicles for nearly 15 yrs now, I am an ASE certified technician with EPA certifications, and an Associates Degree in Business Management as well. (Feel free to pm me for proof) I am well aware of this act and the laws. You are missing the point of the previous posts.
A manufacturers warranty would never cover a blown engine due to N20 use.... it just wont. Its intended to cover the engine as it was from the factory. Any changes to the factory setup (within certain limits) are ok. Something like N20 - thats a deal breaker.
As i said before - the previous posts are not MY opinions.... just information i was passing along.

Not sure about that whole Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act..... didn't feel like reading up on it.... but in regards to the whole thing with AT&T and potentially other carriers shutting off all form of cell service to a person with a rooted/jailbroken phone by way of discovery with a special code in the software.... it won't happen unless they're using it in an illegal way (as in using a free tethering workaround, and abusing it to the point that it's easily distinguished that something fishy is going on).... plain and simple. As i mentioned in the other thread with the exact same article linked to in the Atrix forums (one of the other recent threads), the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was ammended in July 2010, and one of those ammendments was that jailbreaking/rooting a mobile phone to install unauthorized or unapproved applications on the phone is legal.
So.... in regards to the earlier comment someone made laughing at the idea of a "revolt"..... if AT&T starts shutting off service to people who rooted/jailbroke their phone for the sole purpose of either installing a modified ROM or allowing further customisation of the OS than the non-rooted/jailbroke device will allow, then yes, there WOULD be a revolt. That revolt would take the form of... what i believe would fall under a class-action lawsuit. If they can't prove that the person who's service they cut off was using their rooted/jailbroken device in a way that was hindering their service.... which would mostly be the free tethering workarounds and some of those morons downloading quite a few gigabytes of data in a month..... then they would technically be breaking federal law by doing so.

Carrier IQ: Carriers claim you agreed to this

It appears we need to start more paying attention to the pages of fine print that comes with the contracts we sign with our mobile phone providers. Apparently we consented to have all of our phones activities logged to "improve network quality and wireless experience."
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/12/telcos-say-you-consented/
It's almost like the EULA you have to agree to when installing software - most people DON'T BOTHER READING THEM and software producers know this.
On the plus side Sprint is removing CIQ from new phones:
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile...trip-carrier-iq-from-their-hardware-20111216/

http://gizmodo.com/5868732/the-complete-list-of-all-the-phones-with-carrier-iq-spyware-installed
we arent even on there...

noob post for cred
nothing to see here

re:noob post for cred
zenshadow, I don't post for cred unlike you
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=265357
Since you have a limited attention span I'll keep this short.
I realize many have no clue what a mobile phone contract is since it's your mommy or daddy that got you the phone but the time will come when you will have to deal with contracts for a car, mortgage etc. This post was aimed at those adults who were not fully aware of some caveats present in agreements signed with their carriers. This is true of practically any contract you sign.
You may now resume whining about how the latest Android OS is not coming to the Vibrant.

Phrack said:
re:noob post for cred
zenshadow, I don't post for cred unlike you
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=265357
Since you have a limited attention span I'll keep this short.
I realize many have no clue what a mobile phone contract is since it's your mommy or daddy that got you the phone but the time will come when you will have to deal with contracts for a car, mortgage etc. This post was aimed at those adults who were not fully aware of some caveats present in agreements signed with their carriers. This is true of practically any contract you sign.
You may now resume whining about how the latest Android OS is not coming to the Vibrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, thanks for the laugh.
I was clearly just saying that the VIBRANT is not affected by this. Samsung and tmo have both confirmed which phones have it and ours isn't on the list.
Carrier IQ threads died a few weeks ago. The people you want to reach are on different phones.
No need to get butt hurt.
P.s. we have ics. Umadbro?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium

So what files and programs and such is it that we need to be looking for to remove or otherwise manipulate to prevent this on our vibrants?
Edit ok ok i just read that post above mine......so i guess we are to believe we are not effected.. Cant recall the last time i was lied too
by a multimillion dollar company :-/ hmmm.

I have nothing to hide.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium

As a rule for me, whenever I flash a new ROM I make /data/system/usagestat and /data/system/dropbox read only. Many "data collectors" tend to read these. Make em r/o and nothing written there. Nothing written, nothing for them to read. Catch my drift?
Happy Holidays, Wood