Related
Anyone know what this about?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/
link to the xda thread about it?
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
yakky said:
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
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Maybe you should file a class-action suit against the video driver class-action people for taking HTC's time and attention away from fixing real problems...
Actually the mogul does have video playback issues with constant stutering and pausing. From what I've heard from 6700 users video playback is much much smoother (the way it should be). I don't know if it calls for a law suit but hey at least they got htc's attention and now their releasing new drivers that will supposedly fix the video playback issues.
bakntyme said:
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
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Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
SINNN said:
Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
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Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
bakntyme said:
Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
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I feel the need to address this... despite not having been in the original exchange. I can accept that you have a differing viewpoint from us. I refuse to be called a "litigation-crazed" person. I also think you need to get your facts straight before you pass judgment.
The simple fact is - we want the functionality that our devices were advertised with. Many of us did our research and realized that the MSM7500 is a POWERFUL chip. The video acceleration is top-tier, and everything else seemed good too. Then HTC decided to not include a driver for video acceleration. Also, before someone mentions that HTC has claimed(but never in an official press release) that the MSM7500 might NOT include the video acceleration... When have you known a huge manufacturer(nVidia, AMD, Intel, ATi, Qualcomm, etc) to name two differing devices the same name? They don't. they generally qualify them(e.g. 8800 series nVidia cards can be 8800 GT, GTX, GTS, etc.) What HTC did is akin to Dell selling you an Inspiron notebook with an nVidia 8800GTS card inside, then telling you that they didn't include drivers. Oh, and don't forget that nVidia won't support the card, since it's up to the manufacturer(Dell) to supply the drivers. Microsoft won't do it since it's Dell's problem. Dell won't do it because it isn't cost effective. (Suspend the reality of the situation for the analogy, though, please) Now you're left with a $300 piece of video hardware that can't be used because nobody wanted to provide a driver. Go software acceleration! That's the issue we're having. The phones WERE advertised as having the MSM7500(or 7200) which according to everything I've seen both have video acceleration. HTC just dropped the ball.
Now, about us writing our own drivers... That would be difficult without getting a bunch of information from Microsoft, HTC and Qualcomm, which they won't release. If you don't know why, look up open source video drivers for Linux, and you'll understand the pain. It's not a baseless suit - however I don't think that class action is the way to go. I think we need to work WITH MS, HTC, and Qualcomm to come up with a driver. Period. Don't let up the pressure until we have that.
I am sorry, but when your advocacy group starts out with a name like "HTCClassAction", and names its website "htcclassaction.org", it shows itself as not interested in getting the claimed result, but instead, despite any protestations from the group, interested in filing a class-action lawsuit from the beginning. That is "litigation-crazed". Was "htcvideodrivers.org" not available? I am sure that, if you wanted to, given a few minutes you could come up with several non-litigation-oriented group and website names. If you were the product manager for the 6800 at HTC, and you heard of the issues raised by the group HTCClassAction, would you think, "Here is a group of users that wants to work with us to resolve what they see as a legitimate issue?"
Speaking of facts...have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included? I would bet that HTC never stated that the 6800 would include every feature technologically possible with the chipset. It has the capability of supporting an 8MP camera, but they didn't include that either. Another lawsuit? I am sure there are other things the chipset would be CAPABLE of that were not included. If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?
Realize that modern class-action lawsuits are almost always settled for lots of money to the attorneys and a pittance to the class. Remember the Verizon Moto 710 Bluetooth class action? It was settled as usual...the attorneys got somewhere around $6 million; users got $25 if they wanted to keep the 710 and stay with Verizon, a waived ETF and a refund if they wanted to leave Verizon, and a credit toward another device if they wanted to stay with Verizon but not keep the 710. They did not get additional Bluetooth profiles. And if this goes to trial, the courts will never order a manufacturer to provide technology, and support for it, that the manufacturer does not want to provide. IF you could prove false advertising, and I do not think that you could, you might get a small refund or credit toward another phone. If that is what you want, just sell the device on an internet auction site and buy something else...you will probably get more that way.
sucks too that our phones dont even have the ati chip in them. my htc wizard (old school) had better video and gameplay
I don't play games much on my ppc so this problem hasn't affected me as much. However I did notice that PIE was sluggish and freaked when video playback sucked on WM and TCPMP. Most of that was avoided by using GDI on TCPMP.
The real issue here is why can't they add the driver? If it was a simple fix it probably wouldn't have been left out in the first place. Sounds to me like they ran into technical issues trying to make it work.
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
johnannie said:
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
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you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
watson540 said:
you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
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Hahahahaha. Yes, we're children. Little babies, the lot of us. Anyway......
No, we shouldn't sue them for not including a tv-out jack or an 8 megapixel camera. What we are trying to achieve is driver support FOR THE INCLUDED HARDWARE. This is what most people who argue against our position fail to realize. We aren't asking them to do something crazy, like give us a better camera or a tv-out jack, or even more memory. We're asking them to SUPPORT THE HARDWARE THEY SOLD US. Gasp.
Now... I'll use an analogy for those among us who are a bit retarded. If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger, the electronic stability control system, up to 6 airbags, and the radio (all of which are included in your car, albeit only 4 airbags) - and it came with a 30-day money-back guarantee... and you drove it for 30 days and thought to yourself, "Wow, this is clearly better than last years' model" - would you return it? Probably not... That's what happened here.
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them. Now, back to our example. Now imagine you go to a car-meet-up with your new fancy car, and everyone there is talking about how <insert another fast car here> is wayyyy faster than their car, in the same conditions. You and the other owners do some research and find out that the car manufacturer didn't include software to make your supercharger work. It's just inert, sitting there looking pretty. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed that the chip in your car wasn't actually using the supercharger? Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
Anyway - that's where I'm coming from at least - I don't presume to speak for anyone else though. I will say this though, watson540, you need to calm down. You're running around these forums beating on people's opinions and posts. Frankly, yours aren't much more productive. At least try to post something relevant or meaningful... or at the very least something other than "you moron, rtft" or "you moron, stop crying".
it's not really a bug its more
like a pc with the generic vga driver installed
even if the pc have a geforce
problems is that one cant get hold of the
spc driver to replace the generic
ponicg said:
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them.
...
Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
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OK, so you admit that you were very satisfied with the performance until someone said "Hey, I think they OWE US something MORE than what we got, let's SUE THEM for it?" If the device met your needs when you tested it, then you have no complaint. If it did not, you should have returned it in the 30 day return period.
As I asked you way back in this thread, but you have not yet addressed, (nor any of the other points in my previous post), "have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included?...If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?"
None of these analogies is perfect...one big flaw in yours is that you hypothesized "If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger," then switched to the car actually having a supercharger advertised: "Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger". Another is that the supercharger's existence is open and apparent to someone who looks under the hood, without requiring any research or disassembly of the vehicle. Another is that in chip manufacturing, it is usually more efficient to produce a batch of chips with all the capabilities, then use the ones you want in each device, as opposed to redesigning the chip package and retooling the production run for each combination of features desired in each application. No one could reasonably say that it was more efficient to produce a factory run of cars with all possible mechanical features (such as the supercharger in your example) included, and then only connect and use the ones desired for that model. However, auto manufacturers also sometimes utilize parts and sub-assemblies in a particular model without enabling or utilizing all of that component's capabilities, when doing so is more efficient.
Since you like automotive analogies, I will use one without resorting to calling anyone "a bit retarded": suppose that Ford announced that all 2010 Mustangs would use the new computer chip from Super Tuner Corporation, "because of its wonderful and powerful new capabilities," with no details as to what particular features would be made available. Your research into the chip on Super Tuner's website revealed that it supported superchargers, turbochargers, four-wheel drive, four-wheel steering, and nitrous fuel systems. You went in to a Ford dealer and test-drove the top-of-the-line 2010 Mustang, were impressed by its performance, and bought it. Six months later, someone pointed out that you had received none of those performance items listed above. You did not know why, but it was because Ford had internally determined pre-production that the suspension and frame would not be sufficient to provide those performance items in any model Mustang, and they did not want to re-engineer the support structure. They made no announcement about these features not being available, as they had never made any announcement about including those features. Would you join the MustangClassAction.org group? Now suppose that you had done no research prior to the purchase, and six months later discovered the information on Super Tuner's website after someone pointed out the lack to you...even less valid a complaint then, isn't it?
And further suppose that at the same time, someone else says, "I took the interior of my Mustang apart, and it has mounts for 8 speakers, and they only provided it with 4 speakers. Ford has to install 4 more speakers in every Mustang, because it has the capability of holding them!"
And another owner pulls out his factory radio, notices the output jack on the back for a subwoofer..."Where is my subwoofer? It obviously was supposed to come with my car, or they would not have included a radio that could support one and put a jack on the back of the radio to plug one in!!"
Meanwhile, another owner says "I was testing the electronic trip computer included in my Mustang, the same one included in all 2010 Mustangs, and it has the ability to calculate and display up to 55 MPG, but my Mustang only gets 23 MPG. Obviously, Ford was advertising a Mustang that would get 55 MPG and must give us that!"
Enough analogies? Would you get angrier, and call Ford arrogant, when they say, "Thank you for your business, customers, but we never said the Mustang had those capabilities, and we have no intention of retrofitting them, but we will take your opinions into account in designing our next vehicle?"
Analogies by their nature will never replicate the Titan/Mogul/6800 situation. However, we can discuss the 6800 situation itself, and I am waiting for your answer about the HTC advertisement and your not discovering the lack in the first 30 days of your device ownership.
its just bull**** when the the video playback on the 6700 is alot better than the titan. makes no sense at all and yes i feel ripped off.
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
unless you guys can come up with some previous claim by HTC that the mogul was supposed to support this specific capability of the chip, i dont see how you guys can try to force anything out of them. I'm with bakntyme on this one.
Sure its pretty crappy that they put the hardware in there and didnt support it, and im no lawyer, but it doesnt seem like they would be under any legal obligation to support the video drivers.
watson540 said:
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
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Although I appreciate the support, a more professional wording of it might help to keep from increasing the level of emotions and inflammation on this issue.
After looking at Android's fragmentation, the pain that one has to go through for every damn update is really getting to me! Google has really screwed this one up big time...its funny to even see the number of different screen sizes, hardware configurations android is being used. No standardization makes it a nightmare for developers to write applications that are consistent. Its hard to imagine that google has been so short sighted!
Asus is surely a brilliant company to have come out with a great tablet (and their newer tabs are kick ass too at great price points). But its really bothersome if I'm always in some sort of dependence on the manufacturer to release OS updates - this is just plain crazy! If Google's aim of ICS was to converge all devices to use the same OS, then why aren't they supporting manufacturers or insisting on all manufacturers to push out an update?
To start things, Google has really messed up their long term roadmap with fragmentation issues...and I would expect a company of that scale to atleast put in some sort of contractual commitments with all its manufacturing partners to roll out updates to its customers within a given timeline.
Here is what I would expect Google to have implemented yesterday, if they really need to retain popularity towards Android and keep it growing -
1. No more fragmentation moving forward. Standardization of screen resolutions, minimum performance requirements, ram, storage requirements etc.
2. Device manufacturers must commit to issuing software updates within some timeline from when google has an update.
3. Manufacturers dont decide if the update can run on their device or not - it must be google who decides this, and should be decided based on hardware specs
Now with Windows 8 on the horizon, I would definitely wait it out and move over to a Windows 8 based tablet. Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right. It shows clearly from their development tools/platform, their emulators, clean implementation rather than an iterative approach etc.
Last android tablet for sure! And I'm hoping windows phone 7 will mature too, and its windows 8 variant should be a lot more promising. Thats when I would phase out my Galaxy S and head back to MS
What are your thoughts people?
cheers,
San
dreamtheater39 said:
Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right.
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haha, you made my day XD ...btw. throwing the word "vista" into the ring ^^
coming to win8. i just read an article today that the arm version of windows is most likely not able to run desktop programs. asuming that: WOOOOOW, Windows 8
If you prefer a monolithic OS to the liberty you get with Android that's your choice.
Personally, I do not. I do not like being locked into one vendor who gets to decide how I use my device.
I like having a choice between a smartphone, a 7", 8.9", 10.1" or even 11.5" tablet, or even a laptop that I can run the same OS (Android) on.
I love the Transformer. I have one device that is truly a tablet and, with root, also serves the full functionality of a laptop. What can Windows offer me that does this? What can iOS offer me that can replace my Transformer?
And that's besides the fact that with a Windows device I'm stuck with an OS that I am familiar with the shortcomings of, and unable to do anything about. Or with iOS that, again, no one can fix but the manufacturer (if they feel like it).
Yes, fragmentation of the Android platform is a bit of a problem. The Market addresses this, somewhat, by only showing software you can install on your device. Most Android devs are sensitive to their customer's needs and a polite email is frequently responded to positively, and usually with a fix in short order.
Frankly, I consider the fragmented markets (GetJar, Market, Amazon App Store, etc) to be a far larger problem than fragmentation of the OS, and I don't consider that to be anywhere close to a large problem.
Hmmm my thoughts
1. They have set an agreement with there partners. A new timeline that they must update devices within a set life span for a device think it was around a year and a half have a google on it. (p.s year and a half aint bad considering how fast mobile tech is moving)
2. It should not be a problem for devs to write apps for ics and the differences in hardware are accounted for
3. ms well thought out vista ms dos longhorn??? ms dos was not future thinking and very short sighted especially in terms of ram!!!!!! if anyone remembers vista was a plain mess!! and longhorn didnt even meet the public. Not to mention the many other flaws or screw ups (anyone remember xp early days it was hackers heaven)
4. At its roots android is linux google the track record for updates and security between ms and linux then whie you're at it google how many servers in the world run linux compared to ms
5. The biggest flaw of all ms was a single user platform a pc the first pc they now want to make it multi user and move toward cloud computing etc etc linux has been doing this for years so inherantly android can do the same ms on the other hand is having to kick there own ass so hard bills teeth have been replaced with hes toe nails
6. I like win 8 and 7 for one reason gamming and a couple programs i just cant get otherwise but as soon as i can do these things elsewhere or linux based i will.
You do have good points but i just wanted to step in as the other side of the coin.
Sent from my tf Enigmatic V2 beta 1.65Ghz Panda.test cust kernel settings
If you really want to be assured you can run everything on every device I suggest you look at Apple. The iPad will continue to be the dominate tablet for years to come and then you can be assured that everything will be packaged nicely and controlled in the manner decreed in Cupertino.
Open source means a trading a messier support structure for more innovation, and is not for everyone.
blestsol said:
Just leave please and get your ipad.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
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Enough said, whining isn't usefull here.
Seriously what do you want us to say? Good writting nice information, thanks for the info!!
I mean wtf?
Reported the thread.
Klau you do relise where XDA stands for and what the DEVELOPERS word means behind it?
XDA is for developing and helping people when they want to use costum roms or other non officeal related subjects
If you are unsatisfied with a device use the offical forum of ASUS, thats the right place!
Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
blestsol said:
Ooc, you don't agree of disagree... Why you responding? People use words wrong so much... Fan boy? Man you reaching. Foh. You sick of something ignore it and take your own advice. Dip from the thread. Simple ass that for your simple ass.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
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Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol
klau1 said:
Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol
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I didn't disagree. My post said what I meant. What he was describing is what ios can give him. Please show where my fan boy thoughts are though. In my short sentence.
I'll wait for that though.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
silversx80 said:
Oh, the irony :
Here's the thing, the OP is an open-ended criticism on things the android community praises about the android platform. Praising those things does not make one a fanboy, nor does calling one a fanboy render an ages-old demotivational poster anything less than a sophomoric response in the hopes that a chuckle will sway the reader over to your point of view.
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Nope, face palm has always been my actual sentiment about the responses here, and pictures help prevents a large post from getting ignored.
silversx80 said:
Someone criticizes the platform as a whole, one which others really enjoy (including myself), and makes the declaration that they're moving over to another, which is much better. Their assessment is based only on opinionated observations from their point of view, which is hardly an inconvenience to anyone else. Of course they're going to get a "get the f*ck out" response, and deserve nothing less. It's like when the Christians invaded the Turks and tried to convert the entire group of people.
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
There is nothing wrong with desiring something that is better for your uses, but use that as a premise. Don't start by lambasting the opposition, especially when you know what the system is about and you know the offerings of the competition. Some people may actually enjoy the things you don't.
In my opinion, ALL of the devises and software are AMAZING when you consider what the all do.
Instead, we get a bunch of non-contributing, product-zero, whiny little girls. You know what, that's fine; next time you think of complaining, go make your own. As soon as yours is better, then you can complain about other offerings.
Until then, STFU and GTFO.
P.S. If android will be more successful as a standardized platform, we'll see it move that way. I write that with reservation, as android is currently the #1 mobile platform in the world, so they must be doing something right... much to the chagrin of the OP.
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Look, every reasonably intelligent person understands trade-off exist. Simply one comes to mind:
can a "God be powerful enough to create a rock so heavy that even it can't lift it?"
Usability comes at the expense of functionality, everyone should understand that.
But people forget that sometimes, not a big deal, just explain it to them instead of acting like an internet bully. That doesn't help your point across.
silversx80 said:
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
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Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive
lol's were had reading this thread.
klau1 said:
Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive
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Dude, basically what he did was akin to going over to VW Vortex, complaining about all the reasons why his little 2.5 Golf was not like the current offerings from Toyota, and said that when the new Hondas come out, he's getting one of those.
There is no purpose in his post other than to demean and criticize. There is nothing productive, nor contributory about it. No, I didn't have to read, nor post, but I felt compelled.
If someone want's to leave for a better personal option, that's fine. If they want to make a scene and flip the table on the way out, then they shouldn't expect a positive reception to their announcement.
As much as I hate Apple, I do think that progress requires contrast. What do I mean? We need a solidified company like Apple that keeps pushing the same standard but slightly better (that's like peer-reviewed science). We need a looser society of innovators like Google's associates who play around at the edges of what we expect at the moment (who are like fringe scientists, some contribute great genius ideas, and some who completely **** it up). For me, I like the fringe scientist; I understand the need for peer-review, but I think I'll stick with Android for at least the next tablet too.
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Did they demo a Windows 8 ARM device at CES? I am very curious as to how Windows 8 will perform.
This is a very interesting project that could either excel if developers jump onboard, or crash horribly if developers reject the idea of Windows on ARM.
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Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
dreamtheater39 said:
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a huge problem with this statement, and pretty much the rest of your post. They are not a valid presumptions.
First, the developer and platform support each other. The platform does not live because the developer supports it... I'd argue that it's the other way around, but still a 2-way street. Without the platform, the developer cannot develop.
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Third, screen resolution (and other oddities) may be a contributing factor in some app developers not bringing iOS apps to Android, but the vetting process of the Apple App Store discourages other developers from even trying to release anything onto iOS. Some devs don't even want to program things for iOS based on principle (and visa versa).
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Fifth, one could argue that it's not the big-time devs who got each platform off the ground, but the small-time devs, who released their apps for free. It wasn't the gaming capabilities that sold Android and iOS early on; that's a very narrow perspective.
Sixth, Android isn't being shot in the proverbial foot by different market places, those particular devices may be. The Nook and Kindle Fire come to mind, but keep in mind that those were sold on the premise that they're electronic readers first, that happen to run a modified version of Android.
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
I moved to Windows Mobile phones from Palm devices because I wanted better synching with my computer, use of the .Net framework, and ease of customization ability. Turned out that WM was not intuitive on my early phones.
I moved from WM to webOS. Loved it. It was intuitive, smooth and reliable. Customization wasn't very easy, but I didn't care. Also, it had support of the big app developers and had some pretty good games too. Unfortunately, it didn't have support of the small-time app devs because of the difficulty writing apps for it. Where is it now?
From there, I knew that webOS was going to be short-lived, so I moved to Android. No, it's not as stable as iOS or webOS, but it is still a great OS. Small devs can get a chance in the app market, along with big-time devs who write cross-platform.
Windows 8 may be a great platform, but the big picture is that there is no cult-following for Microsoft as there is for Apple. What they need to do is give potential-customers options. Those options need to range from inexpensive, to top of the line. Different hardware, in other words (a nightmare for devs). If they don't, and since they don't have a die-hard following, I suspect it wont gain as much ground as Android did, or even webOS.
Apple has a good customer base, and knows what that customer wants. It's an easy sell. Windows customers are far too diverse and can't accept a blanket-type device range to cover all the wants and needs like Apple customers can. Android addresses those customers by providing options because it's an open architecture. Fragmentation sucks for the devs, but the user doesn't care because the typical user only has one device. Those users are why the devs exist at all.
To sum up, I think three things:
1. Your assessment of Android's shortcomings are somewhat short-sighted and not applicable to the big picture. The user wants the experience of the phone, not the apps. Apps are just noise now, with hundreds doing the same thing.
2. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears, or ears that cannot do anything about your complaints (i.e. I don't think Android's authors are reading this thread with much merit).
3. Your arguments would be better suited in the iOS, or Windows 8 sub-forums.
I was thinking about the horror of all the different Android devices when looking at them from a Dev's point of view (which I am NOT) so I appreciate your openness and insight.
The main reason why I will stay away from an iOS tablet for a long time is simply that the interface on a tablet needs to be more flexible than simply arranging icons to start apps. In other words, as long as iOS does not support widgets there's no appeal to me to buy an Apple tablet. Very narrow-minded, I know. Having an iPh*one (3GS) is not optimal but I am still waiting for an Android phone that intrigues me and is NOT linked to VZW.
dreamtheater39 said:
Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
I do agree that fragmentation exists but only between Android versions such as those running 1.5, 1.6, 2.2, 3.0, 4.0, etcetera but you can deal with this. I doubt they'll standardize hardware. Maybe screen sizes, maybe screen resolutions but manufacturers are there to make money, not play equal to every other manufacturer. If HTC wants to release a better phone with a better resolution to make more money Google isn't going to tell them to do otherwise. The only reason this is different with Apple is because Apple is the only one making hardware for their iOS so there are no companies fighting over each other for profits. They can control the whole platform. Obviously with Android you have multiple hardware manufacturers and they're not all part of the same company, they're looking to make profits over each other and that means devices have varying features. That's just how Android is unless Google makes their own devices and restricts Android to Google devices.
I think I would like the idea of uniformity better too, not as strict as Apple but certain things being the same across all vendors. We're heading that way in a sense since Google is requiring all ICS devices to support the Holo theme. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we get more restrictions from Google but as for forcing manufacturers to make certain hardware? That I truly doubt. Google has made it possible to work with different devices by allowing you to query for different device features such as checking for a keyboard or a trackball or an accelerometer, use resolution independent practices such as DP measurements and relative positioning, it's not as bad as it seems IMO.
different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...
Tubular said:
I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, a lot of work is done to make things resolution independent. But this is not always easy when you want to have some really complex games designed which is heavy on 2D UI. Full screen dialog boxes, Floating UI options etc. are all part of many big game titles developed and ends up being incredibly hard to port across multiple resolutions/aspect ratios. Try looking at some of the user reviews on games - people complain about the smallest of things and randomly throw in a 1 star rating. For a development company, ratings are everything. If your app gets low ratings, it goes unnoticed and thereby killing your chances of earning decent revenues for breaking even - let alone profitability! The cost of development goes up due to higher requirements for development & testing (multiple devices and other fragmentation issues).
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Several things here - PVR textures, many open gl calls behave differently on certain devices - for instance the filtering doesnt work as expected on the samsung line of devices because they have their own driver tweaks applied, some devices crash out on a minor opengl warning, while the other devices ignore and continue to run etc. The point here is, you cant see it running on 1 "TYPE" of device which represents a family (same res, performance specs) and assume it will run on the rest. You can release and iteratively respond to user feedback - but you risk getting low ratings and then your game gets buried under.
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[/QUOTE]
When you build games, the objective is to provide the best graphics to the end user with excellent gameplay. Now, if i have to support several hardware configurations i either have a fallback mechanism to have lower quality on lower device (more dev effort, more costs, more testing), or reduce overall quality of graphics all across (bad quality game - low ratings, low revenues), blacklist lower specced devices (killing potential market share - cutting total revenues, risking break even). This becomes extremely critical especially because the games and apps are sold for a measly $1 and every sale is important!
silversx80 said:
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all developers need to follow this. But any large sized company will invariably follow this approach - mainly from the point of view of monetization. Right now, the fact is, Android is yet not a platform where the big bucks come from. Its still unfortunately the damn fruit company. And the sheer fact about the difficulty in have a game run on android is a deterrent to release on android first. Its much easier to finish a game for ios, throw it on the marketplace, and quickly see how the game did. If people like it, and you made decent revenues, then you could expand to android - which would take a lot more time, money, effort.
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true, and thats what i mean by the effort it takes on testing and development makes it a costlier bet! Imagine the capital investment - to house all the phones to test on!
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I barely find it hard to earn my paycheck Its my company which has to invest the $$$ to get every game out of the door to hit android markets! And just seeing all the chaos involved in shipping an android title, just makes me wonder why google has made this so complicated! If i have to think from the perspective of having my own startup company making android games - it would give me shivers! Not all companies have the lucky streak of Rovio and those few company that i could handcount.
-San
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. Not sure how to feel about this??? If true then there's definately hope for unlocking more WP8 handsets yet at the same time with all the NSA crap going on and concerns about privacy and security...WTF??? Reading around various forums and sites I am actually surprised how many people are NOT interested in unlocking their devices naming security as their number one reason for switching to the WP8 platform. In all the time I've spent here on the forums, with the exception of a few shady posts by no one of any consequence, I have never seen any maliciousness in the the search for exploits and attempts to unlock devices. If anything it almost seems like a game between devs and MS/OEMS and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some of the devs here were offered opportunities by those same entities; if not then our gain, MS's loss. However this article got me thinking about the possibilities and implications of any exploits or unlocks found and just wondering what others thought... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
Microsoft buying Apple is much more plausible that what is in there.
Part of having a secret surveillance plan is to actually keep the plan secret.
I doubt the group "responsible" for this would post their achievements on the internet, provided they are supported by the government.
tonbonz said:
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. ... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
Oh, that's pretty plausible, actually. Even if you assume it's for every device on every version of the OS, I'd still be willing to believe it. Microsoft has done well on security with WP8, hardening the OS (NT in general) over the last decade or so to remove vulns, and using pretty good sandboxing of WP8 apps to minimize attack surface. With that said, there are still items being found, and patched (at least on the PC), regularly in Windows. Some of those vulnerabilities will be present and reachable on WP8 as well, and given how slowly phone updates roll out, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited. For that matter, it could be a true zero-day - something Microsoft is completely unaware of, at least when the exploit was first used - although I think that's less likely.
dazza9075 said:
You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
"Mercenary hackers claim full control over Windows Phone"
and my grandpa told me he had sex with Lili Marleen... but who know... maybe has maybe not
tonbonz said:
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aye, we are significant in our world but there are a lot more numpties out there then there are of us
GoodDayToDie said:
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you but until I see something concrete these are only words...or like I can say in Italian:
fatti, non pugnette!:laugh: (facts, no word please)
Oh, to be sure. Still, it actually gives me a little hope for finding a universal "jailbreak" hack... although I'd prefer one that isn't remotely exploitable.
so we all know HTC is in trouble. The cellphone market is constantly moving forward and looking to the future for their next big thing. I, however, suggest that htc should take a page out of their old book and come out with a next-gen hd2. When I think about freedom in a handset, I think about this phone first and THEN android's early days. We live in a time where mainstream phone manufacturers give us a product and thats that whether we like it or not. my last 4 android phones weren't able to be rooted and so I gave up altogether. I'm currently an iphone user. Not because I think it's better but because I just gave up. I am not happy with todays offerings. I feel like phones should be more advanced now. I mean yeah there are very nice phones today with tiny bezels and crazy specs but I'm speaking more from a OS perspective. Yes pixels are nice, yes samsung has amazing phones but at the end of the day they're only still running android. Android has evolved but, in my eyes, just barely. It's still the same at its core. Back on topic, I think it would be in everybody's best interest if htc were to look back to this phone for the future. This time next year will mark the 10th anniversary of the HD2 and they're in a very troubled state right now so why not? HD3, the all new HTC HD, whatever they may call it is irrelevant as long as they just do it. The smartphone market is stagnant right now, there's countless evidence to support this claim. Manufacturers should start focusing more on operating systems than bezels. It is clearly inevitable that there will eventually be new contestants in the duopoly we have right now.
I'm not sure how to approach this but let's just put it like this. If i had it my way; it's November 2019 and HTC releases the hd3, theres a whole back to the future campaign. they trademark the phrase "the future is in your hands." it's on billboards and ads with the phone sitting comfortably in a pair of palms. there's black hands, white hands, brown hands, robot hands to show that this is the phone for everybody. it runs android by default but it is meant to run other operating systems. HTC has invested money into smaller os manufacturers and home-based devs to develop/port their existing OS. they run competitions and such for people to show off their OS offerings. Not for them to purchase and license but to show that the whole movement is about the people and their freedom phone. the device is a tinkerers dream. The app stores are limited but that isn't the point. We're approaching a time where AI is slowly eliminating the need for 6 billion apps. XDA is the go-to spot again. We need a more capable mobile OS and why shouldn't HTC be one of the first to push that with their hardware. I know microsoft will be putting out the surface phone soon and I'd be willing to bet it will run full windows 10. Why not have a legitimate early competitor to push the agenda? If I want to run ubuntu desktop or kali linux on my phone fluidly why can't I? This may very well be a niche product but it will be huge for developers and will most definitely be a big conversation. That alone would gain some traction. hardware revisions thereafter could include multiple usb-c connectors, maybe an x86 architecture, maybe modularity, maybe this maybe that. I just dream of a pocketable device that would truly feel free of restraints and I believe HTC is the one for the job. Manufacturers are always giving us what THEY think we need instead of actually leaving it up to us. Ask any savvy person what the most legendary smartphone was and they'll say the HD2, ask them why and I guarantee every answer is the same. This is something I am passionate about and I haven't slept yet and I know the format is all messed up but I just wanted to put the idea in peoples heads.
I second this motion. The HTC HD2 Leo I own is a beast. I will admit that it was frustrating at first. I must have soft bricked it half a dozen times messing with settings and software I had no business touching as I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Then I found some good tutorials and finally, the promised land. XDA DEVELOPERS FORUM.
I found that the HD2 was an incredibly versatile and robust piece of tech. I did soft brick it again a time or two, but always I was able to rejuvenate it. The downfall, I believe was Microsoft ending the 6.5 os right after release. That coupled with the power house of android and the backing and resources it had soon overshadowed the HD2. But quite a few kept a place in there heart for it. The capability of the device and the developers to modify and utilize the platform to do extraordinary things has, in my opinion, never been matched. HTC needed a flagship. They were in the pack, but had a desire and opportunity to pull to the forefront. With the HD2 they did surge ahead. They didn't fail us, the market and consumer failed them. Too many got overly frustrated as they failed to understand the accessibility and basic root to pathway to app to accessories. The various models also caused consumers, who were hearing of this wonder of Google and Android, some with the apple iPhone in hand and its "friendly yet restrictive" os, and they rage quit on the HTC.
After reading the above post, I have thought long and hard on what was, what is, and what could be for HD devices. I have several interesting observations.
1. The versatility of the HD2 opened it up to power-users, techs, devs and wide eyed dreamy technophiles like myself. The ability of the HD2 to use Java, WinMo, PPC software, Android and linux gave so many a highly adaptable device for personal preference, personalization and experimentation.
2. The HD2 could act as a PDA, Phone, PC, Diagnostic tool, Microsoft Office companion and controller... The list goes on. Yes you can do all those things with an android or apple device now, but the ability to adjust the hardware settings, application features, information export and format has been greatly handicapped by a gap between developer abilities an end users abilities. Rooting helps with this, but rooting itself is a tricky and iffy prospect. I have noticed that certain areas of focus and purpose for applications have software that does not cover everything desired, or is entirely too broad and basic to be fully accurate. I have found myself and others needing 2 or three applications to accomplish with accuracy what could be done with one openly versatile and layered 'package'.
3. The HTC HD2 is still capable of competing with most of the low to mid level devices on the market today. I can hear some of you rolling your eyes, but I stick by that statement. Even with some outdated components and slower buss and cache speeds, it can hold its own. I attribute that to the versatility.
4. The vision of the HTC HD3 MODULAR COMPONENT ENGINE. Yup. I may be insane after all. Yet my madness has reason, I am just not linguistically skilled enough in Techaneeze to put it to words. Basically, the device by itself is a fully functioning phone with the latest capabilities and trends. The average user will be able to use it straight out the box, though with multiple new options such as dual OS preinstalled, dual SD card slots, Mega More than anyone needs camera resolutions, speakers that actually work loud and clear, maybe predocked gizmos, chochkies and dodads like Bluetooth earpiece(beats me on the design so far), NFC tags or keyring fobs(whatever those are called), a hidden micro sim/sd card compartment, an actual headphone jack, plasma lighter/taser, multi use survival card, toothpick, tweezers, det-cord crimper. OK OK i am being silly, but its late and I am hungry.
The added wow factor is that the HD3 is a driver/interface for a modular expansion platform that can be customized for various trades. IT tools like frequency counter, component tester, etc.; scientific lab tools and sensors; in the field career specific tools for geologist, meteorologist, anthropologists, etc.
So far, i just have envisioned a framework buss with plug in ports for specific electronics and sensors, etc.
I will try to expand on this idea, but I am now at the point that I believe I need to poll the public. I will attempt to create an effective poll(s) at a later time when I have all cylinders firing.
Good night, and good luck!
I just stumbled on to this forum browsing xda in the new year..and as each year passes i feel sad that these HD2 forums get more and more silent ( I bot the HD2 in 2009, the year of its launch) ...strange this phone got so many people to love their device like no other, I guess people remember the joy they felt when they used it and the fact that it was probably the most modded phone on the planet....fact that it ran android marshmallow not too far back is testament to the loyalty of developers and users of this phone who never gave up on it, kept it alive and relevant .... I guess we all miss the extreme flexibility of our beloved device today, of course also miss the huge flutter of activity on the xda forums for this phone, the forums were always buzzing with something new ( ROM, app ) the phone could run or some feature that was finally made to work...so so great to see the above 2 posts in 2018, good to see activity and that people still remember this great device and are still hoping it will be reborn in some form in the future, cheers to that!!!!
Same sentiments here. I bought the hd2 on release in 2009 and it was a lovely device. I remember installing the latest Android ROMs and kernels on it, was so fun. We're at a point if perfection though, most modern devices run at well you hardly need to tinker with them anymore. My Galaxy note 9 and Huawei mate 20 pro are proof to that, these 2 phones are Android in it's perfection but the hd2 will always have a place in our hearts!
I am still amazed to see what the HD2 achieved.. I also bought it in 2009.. had loads of fun flashing it (or may i say them, i ended up having 4 of them at the same time ) whith android and windows.. I still have 2 or 3 of them laying around somewhere.. was an incredible device that gave loads of fun
Good day, friends and lovers of a little programming.
The other day, I faced a problem. My iPhone 11 Pro Max, unfortunately, broke down, and after sending it for repair, I thought about something. Should I buy me a new phone, but on Android?
Looking through a bunch of new products, I came across an inexpensive but attractive looking phone with a cool screen, Nothingphone 1. But when I looked at his reviews on YouTube, I realized that this is a very buggy system and was very upset about it. Suddenly I had an idea, why not buy this smartphone and write a cool firmware for it?
But after weighing all the pros and cons, I realized one thing, I need a team!!! They should be enthusiasts who are interested in creating a cool product for a small price, which will be a pleasure to use, like an iPhone, but in the world of Android with your own hands!
So, if you are a young or not so designer, programmer or human resource manager, and you are interested in creating a cool product, contact me or let's together in this discussion create what we all want for so long, inexpensive, but competitive and very cool smartphone!
You can contact me by email: [email protected]
Nothing OS is far away from "a very buggy system".
What are you talking about?
AroFear said:
Good day, friends and lovers of a little programming.
The other day, I faced a problem. My iPhone 11 Pro Max, unfortunately, broke down, and after sending it for repair, I thought about something. Should I buy me a new phone, but on Android?
Looking through a bunch of new products, I came across an inexpensive but attractive looking phone with a cool screen, Nothingphone 1. But when I looked at his reviews on YouTube, I realized that this is a very buggy system and was very upset about it. Suddenly I had an idea, why not buy this smartphone and write a cool firmware for it?
But after weighing all the pros and cons, I realized one thing, I need a team!!! They should be enthusiasts who are interested in creating a cool product for a small price, which will be a pleasure to use, like an iPhone, but in the world of Android with your own hands!
So, if you are a young or not so designer, programmer or human resource manager, and you are interested in creating a cool product, contact me or let's together in this discussion create what we all want for so long, inexpensive, but competitive and very cool smartphone!
You can contact me by email: [email protected]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you search for each smartphone a bad review exist, you can't trust a review for a product without having testing the product yourself.
Actually NOS is young but pretty good and certainly not a "very buggy system".
But asking for create a new product without know the product is useless.
Maybe your message is just a hidded advertissement, if not i advise to simply return on your iOS environnement instead because your "idea" is already the Nothing Compagny spirit.
Cheers
Don't be so dismissive.
He is actually right, and I can confirm this firsthand. Many of the reviews were written shortly after the launch, and some of them (GSMarena, for example) have yet to update the audio section of their review, despite the fact that several updates had been released, some of which addressed the audio issues
So, all in all, from what you can see at a first glance when searching for "nothing phone," there are many positive hypes and articles about how the phone deserves praise for being such a complete product, but on the other side, if you go deep into YouTube wildness, you will find people who, when stating bugs and shortcomings, are really overstating them a bit, and objectively, you will conclude something along the lines of "seems good, but young and unfinished."
To answer your question, you don't need to build a custom ROM. As a decade-long user of them on every Android phone, I can only confirm that this one feels like it will not need any custom ROMs for regular users since updates are frequent and (for now) it seems that the community is being listened to. It can all still fail, naturally, but in the next 6–12 months, it will be more clearly defined whether the communication with the users and the promises made will be maintained and fulfilled. It feels and behaves like a basic pixel experience, minus all the pixel goodies while adding some of its own—essentially a blank slate for you to customize to your needs.
kriistofor said:
Don't be so dismissive.
He is actually right, and I can confirm this firsthand. Many of the reviews were written shortly after the launch, and some of them (GSMarena, for example) have yet to update the audio section of their review, despite the fact that several updates had been released, some of which addressed the audio issues
So, all in all, from what you can see at a first glance when searching for "nothing phone," there are many positive hypes and articles about how the phone deserves praise for being such a complete product, but on the other side, if you go deep into YouTube wildness, you will find people who, when stating bugs and shortcomings, are really overstating them a bit, and objectively, you will conclude something along the lines of "seems good, but young and unfinished."
To answer your question, you don't need to build a custom ROM. As a decade-long user of them on every Android phone, I can only confirm that this one feels like it will not need any custom ROMs for regular users since updates are frequent and (for now) it seems that the community is being listened to. It can all still fail, naturally, but in the next 6–12 months, it will be more clearly defined whether the communication with the users and the promises made will be maintained and fulfilled. It feels and behaves like a basic pixel experience, minus all the pixel goodies while adding some of its own—essentially a blank slate for you to customize to your needs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He talk about create a new smartphone, not a custom rom...
how did i miss that last part :')
well my bad
Just downloaded android 13 and this phone is damn near perfect, love the feel of the phone and how snappy it is.