Related
http://blogs.computerworld.com/17649/android_upgrades
I can't give you a better argument not to go for SE.
Thank you for the info, on the other hand i can probably find such a site for every car brand and i am still driving :lol
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
I think this phone will be quickly replaced by SE with a better higher quality device look at how many PSP models there are. They will probably hold back on updates for a newer model.
It might last a year at most before a "PSP slim" phone, Or dare I say a white model (lol)
P.S I may of had bad experience with the x!0 series owning 3 different models so my post may be a bit biased.
I had a SE Satio, which was a complete failure. Support for les then 6 months, 2 minor bug fixes within those 6 months.
The support of the X1 and the X10 and family dropped fairly quick as well. And also consider that the X10 started with outdated software already.
Why would SE change this policy?
In my opinion they stripped the company so harsch (2009/2010) of all unnescacarry business departments and personnel that they can't support the phones for to long. They just need to sell phones in masses to make profit. They can't give the support the customers asks, or demands. And customers benchmark companies and expect SE to have the same update ratio as other companies like HTC, or Samsung.
They won't give the same update ratio as other companies because they don't have the funds. Everything is focussed on sales, not the aftersales...
SonyEricsson: We won't keep doing what we are doing now! Promise!
Thanks for posting this, Bestevaer.
If, as they have promised, SonyEricsson (SE) really has turned the corner on keeping current on android versions, then the best way for them to demonstrate this newfound commitment would be to begin updating the X10 series.
Why would anyone take the gamble on SE keeping the Xperia arc updated?
If enough consumers are well informed, then SE is going to miss a whole cycle on this series of hardware upgrades. Keeping current customers satisfied should be seen as an investment on getting and keeping future customers.
I know I'll never buy another SE device if they don't keep my X10 reasonably current for the life of my two-year contract -- and I advise my "laggard" friends looking for android devices of such.
When HTC is doing such a good job keeping their devices current, why would anyone go SE?
Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
PollPixx said:
Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).
Good point there, but so far they never listened to any feedback as far as I can tell. I stopped sending them mails a long time ago as they never replied, and when they did, they completely missed my point of criticism by sending a preset marketing message
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Bestevaer said:
You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
unknown13x said:
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf
Bestevaer said:
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?
SE's standing in terms of updating their devices is no brainer. This phone however will sell for cosmetic reasons. Despite the massive outrage all over the internet, SE will still retain its market share mainly because they are still comming up with good designs.
However the news that SE devices will now get faster updates should be taken with a pinch of salt. Things don't change over night.
It all comes down to personal preference really. If you want a slick looking device; SE is the way to go. If updates matter go for HTC or Nexus.
unknown13x said:
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should see the 1% drop in marketshare in perspective. In 2009 the smartphone market grew rapidly, but SE didn't took a part of the pie. And you should (as a critical customer) think why they didn't grew as other companies.
My point is that you should not take the gamble. Buy a SE and there could be a possibility that you (again) end up with poor support, since they never ever improved there support. But you do end up with a beautifulll looking phone.....
The example of the Satio and Vivaz where just to make my point clear about the lack of support and feedback from SE. And that there policy hasn't changed thus far with the introduction of Android.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
As far as I am concerned, SE are dead. I had the X1, SE are worst for software updates. I remember getting froyo on my HTC desire a good 2-3 months before the X10 got 2.1 eclair.
SE have stated that its a fresh start, lets see if they can hold up to that promise, but after the X10, I can't trust SE anymore, i'd much rather go for HTC, Moto or even samsung...
unknown13x said:
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.
Stan.S, brilliant informative post!
I agree with all the points you raise but I think I will still actually buy the ARC if it comes to market without delay especially after seeing the latest blog video demonstrating what I think is the best camera capability of any phone (besides the nokia n8).
I currently own a HTC Legend and while it has had updates (maintenance and OS) it was annoying that the 2.2 update came after Vodafone began rolling out a version for their phones, pretty irritating especially as I had bought the phone with no contract..So it seems no one is free of bad practices..
Regarding the lack of cutting edge hardware I was slightly put off that there was no mention of dual-core, but then I remember I work as an animator for a games studio that works on well known games and its amazing what we can squeeze out of a DS.
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..
flynny said:
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
Well, the sensor they put in is certainly a level up from most on the market, however, it is again the cheaper of the two possible sensors available. I also understand that the larger (12mpix) sensor would require the phone to be thicker and have a better lens as well as a higher cost.
If SE was really into the PREMIUM market as they claim, they know that the Cybershot variations of their phones have always been beloved by consumers. X10's and the Arc certainly show that the people from the camera section have had input into the design.
This is supposed to be a flagship phone, and there is not a single component that is Outstanding, it's more like the best of the middle ground.
It's always possible that Arc will have brothers and sisters announced at MWC and a bit more differentiation will show up beyond a keyboard or size, but the constant choice of cheaper components (and the reduced internal storage) will certainly cause all the reviewers to comment on the 'below expectations of hardware available at this time' of the devices.
stan.s said:
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good post Stan.S!
If I may comment your points a little.
1. Hopefully this will change with arc. Seems like they have a deal with At&t.
2. Dont think hardware could have been so much better. They are using qualcomm hardware and their better processors are not done yet. Internal ROM could have been better though. More than 512 RAM is not necessary in my opinion.
3. From what you say about At&t, t-mobile seems a lot better
4. Same as above, Im not American so I wouldn't know
5. Again I think this will be better with arc. From what Ive seen here in Sweden, SE representatives seems to be really committed to upgrade their phones. They know they ****ed up.
6. Actually the head of the "heads" (Bert Nordberg) have said in a interview in the biggest economic newspaper here in Sweden that hardware is important and that they intend to win that race also. He said something like "its all about clock speed these days and we intend to take the lead". Its my understanding that Arc is not the über device of this year. It takes a while to plan these things and Bert probably influenced a later device. Also arc seems to be more about the looks and screen than the hardware. Its not a super highend device
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/
I like SE cause I tend to care more about hardware then software. When it comes to software I'm not looking for SE I'm looking at the great XDA developers community which is always upgrading every phone way before the manufacture does anyway.
thorstenn said:
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
7. You say that leaving iPhone is not possible, but it's not true, there are people who wish to no longer be sheep and not straight jacketed. I talked to a couple of people just today who got HTC's when they decided to sell iphones.
8. Wait, they can't put another kernel on due to the bootloader? are you implying that the bootloader runs some sort of a checksum on the kernel or checks a specific offset address for something? There's only a limited number of things that would lock it to a specific kernel.....
http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-features/54903-is-motorola-getting-ready-to-ditch-android
The article makes several key points:
"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google and even Google's numbers look less than reliable. There are 37 lawsuits on this platform since the beginning of 2010 many filed against companies like Motorola and complaints from the OEM on Google's responsiveness to their concerns are both common and strident," he explained.
"They are not happy and a review of all of this is what pushed HP to buy Palm and avoid Android all together
You have to consider why a company like Motorola would chose to support, or not support an OS - things may not be all that rosy for Google Experience Devices, in fact it sounds like companies like Motorola may actually resent Googles interference, and what they percieve as an inequitable distribution of profit (into Googles Pocket) on these devices.
Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.
I think its all in the informations source. Wasn't there an article a month or two back that essentially discussed exactly how profitable Android is? Essentially calling it Google's most profitable venture ever for both themselves and their partners.
I think the proof is in handset shipments and growth. What is HTC's shipment growth over the past 2 years? Something in the neighborhood of 200%? and their projection is for a 300% increase over that this year? Those handset sales are driven primarily by Android. If they aren't making a profit on those handsets then they would have been unprofitable no matter what, because their prices wouldn't have changed. Whether it be Windows Mobile,Android or Brand Z their new handset is still going to be in the neighborhood of 599-650, so its their responsibility to make sure that price point is profitable for them. I don't see them being able to complain about slow growth since the sales growth and acceptance for the Android platform is pretty much meteoric.
I hardly see Motorola complaining about Android considering it and Verizon essentially saved them from becoming the next Nokia, a brand no one in America cares about. Are they hedging their bets? Possibly. Abandoning Android right now or in the foreseeable future though? I would say absolutely not.
Without Android, its pretty easy to say that Motorola and HTC would be in far worse financial shape than increasing their shipments and profits every quarter than they currently are. (Samsung not so much, they could have continued to be the OEM supplier for screens to HTC/Other brands who want to make phones) But in fact it was so profitable it encouraged Samsung to jump into the market themselves instead of just supplying parts. It gave those companies an instant way to compete with iOS.
Motorola announced today it sold 8.3 million handsets in the second quarter, earning the Mobile Devices division $1.7 billion in sales, and returning the unit to profitability after several quarters of losses. Over 2.7 million smartphones were part of Motorola’s overall handset sales, showing the vast growth in this segment, as the company reported zero smartphone sales in the same quarter in 2009. Although Motorola quarterly results don’t specifically name the biggest catalyst for such a change, it can be summarized in one word: Android.
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Thats from July of 2010. So from losses to profit, I can hardly see how that "wouldn't be turning out profitable" for them.
e.mote said:
Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.
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Click to collapse
You both make good points.
Thats when these boards work best. When people actually think through all the facets of a topic and don't just devolve into an Apple good/Android Bad rant.
However, in response to the comment: "Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. "
Certainly it is,
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
That in turn was developed from an OS called Linux developed by Torvalds as an open source alternative to Windows.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
Edit: I agree with you that that this is virtually impossible for Motorola. But I would have thought it impossible for HP too and yet, they had the creative insight to buy palm, and now they are doing it. Probably will crash and burn, but bottom line is: They DID abandon android.
Digital Man said:
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
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I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.
_RTFM_ said:
I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.
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Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
Digital Man said:
Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software
_RTFM_ said:
...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software
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Sarcasm aside, no, I'm still not sure a search engine is the same as a hardware operating system....
Her is a good article supporting the alternative point of view however:
Moto ditching Android: Silly Rumor
http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-developing-own-os-silly-rumor-20110325/
Note this line: Motorola is working on their own OS? What? Back that up. Several blogs are putting forth the rumor that Motorola’s friendship with Google is waning and that the cellphone manufacturer has been quietly hiring Apple and Adobe engineers with the aim of developing their own platform OS to compete with Android.
Note the part about quietly hiring from Apple and Adobe.
I honestly don't have a strong opinion one way or the other here. I am primarily playing Devils Advocate by throwing the orignal topic out here for discussion, as it is something that people have been talking about quite a bit on Motorola hardware boards.
I was curious to see other peoples points of view on the story-rumor.
Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history
tinpusher said:
Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history
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Thanks for posting this.
I have to laugh. I started this thread, and in effect was accused of being a conspiracy theorist wearing a tin-foil hat. So it makes me feel better knowing that the guys over at Gizmodo have some pretty shiny head-gear as well.
If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.
th0r615 said:
If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.
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Oh hell, some companies like Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot on an almost daily basis. Remember the Kin phone? Here is a quote from an article by Engadget:
"While it's hard to argue that Kin is an awful product, the saddest part of the story is that many of the people responsible for it knew it was -- they were largely victims of political circumstance, forced to release a phone that was practically raw in the middle."
In the end they sold something like 500 of the things.
Remember the Dell streak releasing crippled with Android 1.6?
And then there was windows Vista....
Companies often do things that seem to make no rational business sense.
It would be crazy for them to abandon the platform that single handedly prevented them from going into bankruptcy... Motorola was doing horrible before they teamed up with Verizon and released the Droid OG. Which was an insanely popular device. Motorola should be thanking Verizon and Google for still having jobs right now...
They would be crazy to stop embracing android. Not only is it generating business like crazy (everyone has seen or heard of the enormous numbers of android products being sold, numbers that are unseating the existing leaders of the mobile os market), all indications are that android is still growing. Why abandon success?
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Actually it's as simple as this.. Would you abandon an OS that has the second largest apps for mobile? It would be dumb for any company to do such a thing.. I mean think about it.. What other choices do you have?? WM7, RIM, Palm etc?? It would take years for them to catch up, apps wise.. Right now, what makes these phone manufacturer tick, is the apps behind it.. Hence, that's the reason why I chose Android when I left iphone.. The apps.. So I don't think Motorola would abandon Android and jump ship anytime soon.. Or at all, for that matter..
Yeah I agree. I don't see this happening anytime soon, if at all. Especially looking within a few years down the road.
Motorola should just concentrate on making better quality hardware and leave th software to people who know what they are doing. Motorola use to mean quality, now it's just another phone maker in a sea of the same devices running the same software with nothing really revolutionary to offer buyers. If moto could make an android device with the quality of their razor they would destroy the competition.
The rumor that Moto is hiring software egr's has a glimmer of truth (and subsequently embellished for tabloid consumption). Moto is learning that there is a downside to the Android gravy train, which every co and its sister is jumping onto, and that is lack of differentiation.
Co's are trying different things. Asus is doing the integrated keyboard with the Transformer. HTC has the active digitizer where you can use a stylus. Archos is leaning on its PMP roots with strong multimedia support. But for the majority, differentiation will be minimal (mostly a custom GUI). The main determinant will be price. In other words, Android tabs will be commodity status very soon. This is good for the consumers, but not for the vendors.
This isn't the smartphone market any more, where supply is constrained by the carriers playing as gatekeepers. Price competition will be intense, and slapping on a custom GUI (as has been the practice for smartphones) will no longer be enough. Premium brands in smartphones do not automatically translate to the tablet market.
It'll be a free-for-all. And the guys that win will be those with the best value-add, brand strength, and distribution muscle. For the first, you need software peeps. Which is why Moto is stocking up.
Digital Man said:
Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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This sentence does not make any sense
hi_its_ryan said:
This sentence does not make any sense
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Just saying that something doesn't make sense isn't very helpful. Try explaining WHY it doesn't make sense.
That would add something to the discussion.
The HTC One is very much looking like the next phone for me long term, but all this talk about how poor HTC is doing is making me wonder is it worth the risk if they go bust, then I guess the software would stop getting updates, warranty wouldn't be covered if things go wrong, no sell on value as well.
What are peoples' thoughts?
happysteveo said:
The HTC One is very much looking like the next phone for me long term, but all this talk about how poor HTC is doing is making me wonder is it worth the risk if they go bust, then I guess the software would stop getting updates, warranty wouldn't be covered if things go wrong, no sell on value as well.
What are peoples' thoughts?
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1) Here in the uk warranty wouldnt be an issue as the contract is with the company you purchased the phone from and not the manufacturer. I dunno how it works in other countries but we are safe this side of the pond.
2) If the development community is thriving then I wouldnt worry about updates (i plan on jumping straight to cyanogenmod if it is ever supported).
3) Sell on value would naturally be effected but thats the risk you take with anything you buy these days.
Personally I cant see HTC going under and if they do, ah well, not like im spending thousands.
You could play the Titanic theme as you toss your One off the back of a ship?
jdawglx01 said:
You could play the Titanic theme as you toss your One off the back of a ship?
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i lol'd in the office
i really cant see htc going bust anytime soon.
They are still making money , and that without the launch of the htc one which should boost them up for a bit.
Dont forget they are still the 4th largest manufactor of phones in the world.
That thought did cross my mind too but I do not think they would go bust or do a blackberry and mess things up totally.
happysteveo said:
The HTC One is very much looking like the next phone for me long term, but all this talk about how poor HTC is doing is making me wonder is it worth the risk if they go bust, then I guess the software would stop getting updates, warranty wouldn't be covered if things go wrong, no sell on value as well.
What are peoples' thoughts?
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HTC isn't going busted. They are not in bankrupcy they only have lesser sales but still they earn a gross of million dollars per quarter. It's just it is low compared to other phone companies. Don't be a paranoid, the smartphone manufacturing sector is one of the most lively business today there's no way any company would go bankrupt from it. There's far too many other OEMs which has lower sales than HTC infact HTC has even higher sales compared to blackberry and LG.
GRRR .. how do you remove a thanks !! ... Fat fingers and a touchpad don't mix !!!
Of course HTC isn't going bust .. what a daft idea. Their sales have slowed per quarter year on year when the crazy economy nowadays expects constant growth. If HTC comes a respecatble third behind Samsung and Apple that will satisfy the company goals as long as they take back some more market share.
Remeber that the percentage of market share figures being shown around are dependent on the size of the market. Samsung has done an enormous job (and spent an enormous amount of money) expanding the overall market. 10% of the market 5 years ago is nowhere near as good as 5% of the current market, and that's mainly thanks to the marketing divisions of Samsung and Apple competing to take over the world ...
On the other hand, HTC has always produce a 'disruptive' product every couple of years, one which stretches the envelope in some way or another. They innovate, the others market ... There will always be a relatively small but extremely comfortable place for HTC top-end phones ... and don't forget ... they made white-box phones for other companies and carriers for years before 'coming out' ... there's still a market there too.
Worry more for Nokia, Blackberry and a few others. The likes of Samsung and LG are appliance manufacturers and Apple are computer manufacturers so they have safe business to fall back on. Once the Cellphone market starts to approach saturation they'll ease off .. but right now the race is for a decent slice of China, South America and India ... Let's see how HTC acceptance is in those regions before we start to ring any funeral bells
yes this post pisses me off as well
HTC has so far been profitable, ie: they are not yet sustaining operational losses
yes yes sales are down, but the latest numbers are just media FUD, with a new supreme SINGLE flagship almost released no one would buy their old flagships
the recent news is that they are at their lowest pre android level, surprising how they've survived and grew back then if its a near death experience
besides even if they cross into "loss", companies can survive this state for years as well
What everyone else said, plus: Absolute WORST CASE scenario, they get bought. A company with as much valuable talent, branding, IP and carrier/manufacturing partnerships as HTC doesn't "go bust". Who would buy them? Well, ASUS is a Taiwanese company that desperately wants to transition successfully into the phone market..
hamdir said:
yes this post pisses me off as well
HTC has so far been profitable, ie: they are not yet sustaining operational losses
yes yes sales are down, but the latest numbers are just media FUD, with a new supreme SINGLE flagship almost released no one would buy their old flagships
the recent news is that they are at their lowest pre android level, surprising how they've survived and grew back then if its a near death experience
besides even if they cross into "losses", companies can survive this state for years as well
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A bit OT but I have a feeling they will release more phones than just "ONE" over this year but I really hope they don't as it's just easier to maintain and support 1 phone a year rather than 6 or more.
jdawglx01 said:
You could play the Titanic theme as you toss your One off the back of a ship?
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you are so funny, man.:laugh:
While it's true that HTC's revenue and profits have been depleting for about 18 months, the company is actually doing quite well when compared to Sony, Motorola, Nokia, BlackBerry and a few others. All of those companies have been operating at a loss for quite some time, yet they have managed to stay alive.
The fact that HTC is changing its approach with the One is actually a very good sign. The company will be able to focus its software development efforts on fewer devices and throw its entire marketing budget behind one device. We will see other HTC devices launch in the coming months, but a handful of HTC execs have stated that a number of phones were killed off so that the company could make the HTC One a priority.
If things go really bad with the HTC One this year and can't find a way to reverse its downward trend, HTC will still be around for at least 2-3 years before they would need to file for bankruptcy.
Imagine if HTC did go bust...we'd have to buy plasticy toy looking phones that make toilet noises.
Wiki shows this
Revenue $9.449 billion USD
Operating income $1.496 billion USD
I think they will be ok ....
hamdir said:
yes this post pisses me off as well
HTC has so far been profitable, ie: they are not yet sustaining operational losses
yes yes sales are down, but the latest numbers are just media FUD, with a new supreme SINGLE flagship almost released no one would buy their old flagships
the recent news is that they are at their lowest pre android level, surprising how they've survived and grew back then if its a near death experience
besides even if they cross into "losses", companies can survive this state for years as well
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I could not agree more. HTC made less PROFIT this quarter making it their lowest performing quarter since the nexus one days.
Remember winmo? This site used to be all HTC, their stock was rising based on decisions like branding on their own etc. The One will be the largest rollout since the Touch pro 2. They are still more profitable now since then. HTC isn't going anywhere.
Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2
I think HTC is unlikely to go bust. They took everything they learned from the Sensation line and gave us the One X. As they realized various issues, HTC rapidly adapted their phones to fix issues of the past. Things like the WiFi antenna issue will never happen again. Sense 5 is much more in line with AOSP and Holo, with much better functional addition. They brought back the aluminum unibody. They innovated new features, brought a truly good camera to the table rather than better optics and a good camera app. They added new sound hardware and truly delivered on their promise to give great sound instead of just an equalizer. The list just keeps going on.
HTC has shown that they rapidly adapt to fix their weaknesses and give customers what they want. I think that is what will ensure their survival.
The only phone company going bust this year is Blackberry
There is no chance at all but in case Google or Samsung are the potential buyer they will take care of all things
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Reckless187 said:
Imagine if HTC did go bust...we'd have to buy plasticy toy looking phones that make toilet noises.
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just awesome
by the way HTC just closed a 10 year deal with apple, a 3 year sponsorship with UEFA and has been on a hiring spree, so yea it's safe to say they are not going anywhere
don't let media FUD get to you
---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------
daleski75 said:
A bit OT but I have a feeling they will release more phones than just "ONE" over this year but I really hope they don't as it's just easier to maintain and support 1 phone a year rather than 6 or more.
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the strategy is for one supreme flagaship, no other devices for at least half a year, and with a very high chance of a One + mid year
there will definitely be other mid to low range devices, a phablet + tablet maybe
considering that even Apple is about to release two iPhones (and two ipads, ipod etc) you can't really expect a phone specific company like HTC to just go for one device, actually no body releases one device...stop dreaming
but they did fix their biggest mistake which was release three competing flagships last year (One S, X, XL)
a mid year refresh will not hurt, in fact it will persuade those considering the One mid year but tempted with newer devices specifications, all their previous mid year refresh were basically the same device with a slight speed+battery boost/ refinement to the finish/red accents! so no matter how the minority of XDA memebers like to cry about those minor refresh releases, ITS STILL THE SAME DEVICE
yesterday i saw the One X+ with someone and i asked him if i can see it, i just couldn't stop myself from laughing all those who freaked out when it was announced, its 99% the One X, HTC have the same team for what basically is the same firmware on both, in fact im all for it, refreshing the same device actually entices HTC to keep the updates flowing
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4...ures-disastrous-first-and-production-problems
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
It will be sad to see them go, downsizing is never pretty. I really hope we'll see a phone running sense in the future generations.. I think the one should have been much more popular than it is.
Sent from my Tricked out HTC One
Its overdue!!
When a company goes down that fast, major changes are a must!!
Just sack the CEO and let someone else bought the company.
This is very very sad news, also the launch of the One in my country is a disaster.... Not enough unit to sale, only units for pre-ordered customers, delayed 3-4 times. I really hope the doubled manufacture rate of the One will help them get out of this situation...
Google - please buy HTC!!
yes but consider this
if the US staff if being changed or they are leaving on their own, the motherbase is still in Taiwan, if anything those leaving are those who failed HTC so far
Let's not forget the One X main failure was the US market
Slashgear's take on the news
HTC sees more top execs disappear as Facebook fouls First launch
and little less drama
Nonetheless, HTC’s future is about more than just a few high-profile staff looking elsewhere for their next challenge. The company has apparently pushed through its HTC One production issues, with output said to double this month alone, and the unaudited sales figures from April indicated that demand for the flagship was certainly there. HTC has been pushing ahead with cost-cutting, too, axing little-used services like HTC Watch in less popular locations.
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and did the press consider that Eirc is just a guy who left his job and bad mouthing the place
Leigh @jetleigh 9h
Proud to say I work for @HTC. #hatersgonnahate
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https://twitter.com/jetleigh/status/337036907546570752
Leigh @jetleigh 8h
@verge you guys are missing a big piece to this, creates a misleading story. *sigh.*
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Executive hemorrhage continues : http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/22/4355290/htc-asia-ceo-lennard-hoornik-leaves-company
i dont think this will affect anything at all..they are always people who can do a better job than those who have left
They just might bring in new people that can get HTC out of this disaster, you never know, HTC might be better off without them.
Ps. Can somebody rename this thread? There are threads created every minute about the same topic.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda app-developers app
For everyone worried that HTC will no longer exist, just remember that Nokia, Yahoo, AOL, MySpace, and many others still exist even though they have not been relevant for a whole lot longer
hamdir said:
Slashgear's take on the news
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This from that article would be an absolute disaster.
A reshuffle in how HTC makes its strategy decisions could be part of the reason behind the shake-up, it’s suggested, with the company shifting product planning to the Taipei HQ and potentially leaving the Seattle office out of the loop.Asian companies don't know how to market toward Western audiences and HTC's been historically bad. Controlling it all out of Taiwan would just make things worse. And if you look at where the people went most are in better jobs with bigger and growing companies so "house cleaning" doesn't seem like what's behind their departure. People on the inside have a more accurate view of the present and future and mass exodus is never a good sign.
Here's what Forbes said...
Once an undeniable power in the U.S. smartphone market (second only to Apple ’s iPhone in 2011), the Taiwan-based HTC Corp. is suffering the latest bump in what has been a slow, drawn-out stumble.
The company’s chief product officer, Kouji Kodera, has left the company, according to a report by The Verge. Kodera’s departure is one of a number of recent HTC fence-jumpers, which includes vice president of global communications Jason Gordon, global retail marketing manager Rebecca Rowland, director of digital marketing John Starkweather, and product strategy manager Eric Lin, according to the report. HTC Asia’s CEO Lennard Hoornik has also chosen to leave the company following two months of leave time.
This exodus of talent only worsens a grim outlook for the company in 2013. The HTC One – the company’s latest iPhone-esque smartphone – has not been the game-changer the company needed to bounce back from poor sales in 2012. Investors have taken notice, as they tend to do (eventually) and HTC’s share prices have fallen to $288 from $432 [the One X/S/V launch] this time last year on the Taiwan exchange.http://www.forbes.com/sites/karsten...retreating-in-the-face-of-iphone-and-samsung/
The thing with Eric Lin is that even when he first "introduced" himself to the community at large for I believe it was pocketnow he came off as a very abrasive and quite negative representative for HTC (and that was in 2009). In terms of PR he was a bad move by the company...In that it doesn't shock me in the least that he is a very outspoken critic of HTC America.
Even speaking with him at some of the live events he's still extremely abrasive...he's a really bad spokesperson for even a company performing well
kurby said:
They just might bring in new people that can get HTC out of this disaster, you never know, HTC might be better off without them.
Ps. Can somebody rename this thread? There are threads created every minute about the same topic.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda app-developers app
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Good idea. Done.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
domineus said:
he came off as a very abrasive and quite negative representative for HTC (and that was in 2009).
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So either he was really good at his job and HTC decided to overlook his personality traits or, since he was at HTC for four years, HTC's incompetent for allowing such a key position to be filled with someone not up to the task.
Forbes iPhone esk quote is ridiculous as well as measuring the one success so pre maturely
I give up with American media
hamdir said:
Forbes iPhone esk quote is ridiculous as well as measuring the one success so pre maturely
I give up with American media
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Their basing their conclusion on HTC's guidance for Q2 2013 which is below (by 21%) what they actually achieved in Q2 2012 with the X/S/V and that at this point last year their stock price is 33% lower with the One on the market than when the X/S/V were on the market for the same amount of time. I was hoping for HTC's sake that today's big Verizon announcment was that they'd be carrying the One. It turned out to be a partnership with Jennifer Lopez aimed at the U.S. Latin market.
Here's HTC projected performance along with their historical performance (as provided by them).
Off to enjoy my HTC One
Enjoy the stock exchange Barry I share no interest
---------- Post added at 08:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------
By the way, isn't it odd that you only contribute to death stories around this specific forum and nothing to do with the device it self?
At least Baron took a bold step
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2157153&page=612
You really don't like HTC at all Barry, do you? Never see you saying anything good about them and always praising Samsung like they have no faults at all and any problems that they do have, you seem to brush them under the carpet like they are non-issues i.e. the screen issues yet when it comes to HTC and a minor problem, it is just an outrage and that this will severely hurt the company according to you......
Regarding this "shake up", just because people have left the company doesn't neccasrily mean that the company is going down, as posted by one of them and an article, it sounds like they weren't happy working at HTC....... how that relates to "the end of HTC", please explain......... besides, it might be a good thing as posted, their marketing is crap (much better this year but still not good enough to match Samsung) and this is one of the most important areas as to if a product will do well combined with sales commissions, Samsung know fine well how it important it is, otherwise they wouldn't be throwing such a stupid amount of money at that department let alone increasing it substantially each year, that is largely why they are so popular and sell so many units as has been proven even if a product gets better reviews and is better overall and is preferred by the majority of users across forums/polls etc. Looking at both devices the other day, HTC one shoved with all the other devices where as the galaxy s4 has its very own stand and the device isn't clamped down anywhere as much and you even have a wee display notice beside the phone saying something like "call for assistance to demonstrate the features" and everywhere you look, you just see GS 4 posters.... this is where HTC and other companies fail big time and is what cost them their sales, X company could have the very best product by miles, however, what is the point if you have Y company that has a device, which isn't as good but are paying/bribing the shops more in order (more than other companies) to push their devices onto the customers?? In that situation, what do you think is going to appeal to the average joe customer more....
Plus HTC need to branch out to more market areas in order to create more brand presence as at the minute, average joes probably view HTC like what we view ZTE etc.
The GS 4 is not the best selling phone purely because of the SD slot and/or removable battery and/or its software gimmicks/features (maybe it is for the likes of most of the people on this forum but not for the mass consumer i.e. average joes and you can quite clearly see this isn't the case as apple aren't having problems with their iphones and sales.....) or/and because it is free of faults (how many note II and GS 3 devices died last year from the sudden death issue?? Surely that would leave a bad taste??? Not to mention when it took Samsung so long to admit that there was a problem let alone fix it.....EDIT: Oh and their awful repair service too! Blaming it on water damage......), GS 4 has more serious issues compared to the one currently i.e. over heating, poor performance in real world usage, screen issues (be it pink/purple tint, red pixels, screen glass or/and AMOLED breaking/cracking with slight pressure), audio issues etc. The one's issues are mainly cosmetic and some aren't even "issues" i.e. that tiny tiny gap at the top/bottom which doesn't even measure in at 1mm can hardly be consider an issue since it normal as the speaker covers aren't part of the zero gap body, if that is consider an issue then every single phone has that issue especially the GS 4, check the camera lens area and back cover parts:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05710-1366741454.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05555.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05553.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05538.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05492.jpg
Heck Samsung could have just released the exact same phone as the GS 3 but with that 1080P screen and they would have still have sold the same amount as what they currently have with the GS 4.
It is just like everything these days especially the game and film industry, you hype and market the **** out of the stuff, they sell millions, however, be bloody awful, you then have your GOTY and film of the year that doesn't sell as well due to the lack of marketing.
/rant
Anyway, back on topic, as I was saying, this could be a good thing, getting new and better people in to carry out those jobs and get some fresh ideas.
Sounds like the CEO needs to go as well......
Guys and girls, it would be nice if we all go watch new HTC commercial, like it, favorite and share :highfive:
Let's get this puppy rolling!
It's good to remind that this commercial actually features the HTC One in video, the HTC One (M7) device is used throughout the film and in the car wash section RDJ asks to boost the options in which the speakers volume is increased considerably
Also seems no one else noticed this, but check out the acronyms passing fast at the end of the video
there are many and it's genius, here is one of them
HTC: Hawaiian Tickle Ceremony
Associating with RDJ is a great idea. He appeals to a wide and varied demographic. With any marketing the message is only a part of a campaign. The other, and arguably more important, is quantity of impressions, repetition of the message, and breadth of its delivery.
In its most daring effort yet to stay in league with Apple and Samsung, HTC announced a massive marketing campaign Monday starring "Iron Man" actor Robert Downey Jr. The Taiwanese phone maker confirmed it has signed Downey to a two-year deal, which is reportedly worth $12 million. The new campaign, called "Change," is intended to get consumers talking about HTC once again. The company said the campaign will last at least two years and cost about $1 billion -- the same as HTC's global marketing budget last year.
http://www.latimes.com/business/tec...y-marketing-campaign-20130812,0,1978367.story
HTC's spending the same as they did last year ($500MM annually) over the next two years with the RDJ campaign. Motorola's spending that just to launch the Moto X. So time will tell if a really clever campaign with a well-recognized spokesperson will accomplish HTC's objective. And that objective isn't to make the current faithful like them more it's to regain market share lost to other smartphone companies. And that group needs to see and remember the message (and of course HTC) which is going to be a challenge with HTC’s budget.
I love this new ad campaign!
That was great. Fantastic production value and acting - this is a great campaign, awesome to see from HTC
I think the campaign is absolutely brutal. You get one of the best brand ambassadors in RDJ and this is the best you can come up with?
I agree. It's so bad it's almost hard to watch. I don't know how you guys like this....
rican408 said:
I agree. It's so bad it's almost hard to watch. I don't know how you guys like this....
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Oh hush you are just Hating The
Cell see what I did there lol
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
It's a brilliant commercial. It gets people talking about HTC. It's weird, it's witty, and most importantly it's different than anything else out there. The one's that do not like it should watch it a couple of times, you catch little things that make it better each time.
NextNexus said:
I think the campaign is absolutely brutal. You get one of the best brand ambassadors in RDJ and this is the best you can come up with?
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So you've seen one commercial from what will possibly be a 2 year marketing campaign, and based on that the entire campaign is brutal?
Gettin a little ahead of yourself I think.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
I've shown a couple of people and they thought it was hilarious for a phone commercial, they'll probably show a couple more each and so on... Definitely works
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
finally they got the attention they deserve
And i think they are on the right track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5cZvbOisk4
Really nice video from Placebo and the One seems to be spot on, although it is kind of a negative representative of technology (even bad publicity is good ). One thing bothers me: i can't seem to find the nudity augmenting app in google.store. Anyone?!
You guys are kind of missing the point of what the new campaign needs to do and are expressing your "feelings" toward it. In Q2 there were 45% more smartphones sold then last year. HTC’s Q2 revenue was down 28%. So something’s caused/causing HTC to lose customers in a burgeoning market at a faster rate than their competitors (LG and Sony’s YOY market share improved in Q2). Paying RDJ $6MM a year for two years and coming up with an edgy offbeat campaign is designed to reverse that trend and its success solely lies in how much additional revenue and market share HTC gains because of it.
So who buy’s (or doesn’t buy) HTC’s phones?
People that have followed them since the G1, like their products, consider themselves loyal to the brand, or like to align with the "underdog" and consider themselves contrarians (HTC as the "anti" Samsung).
People who are aware of HTC, may have lost track of them, and are neutral toward owning an HTC phone.
People who don't know HTC (unaided awareness), don’t really follow technology on the whole, view a smartphone dispassionately (it’s a tool), and buy what they like based on what’s available at their two-year contract renewal.
People that don’t like HTC. They may have had a bad experience, be loyal to another brand, or simply decided that, compared to other choices, they don’t like HTC or their products.
I’d assume the majority in this forum are heavily weighted to category 1 with some people who either found or came back to HTC because of the One which are in category 2. For those groups, since their already loyal and aware and probably bought the One, the advertising campaign is simply a “feel good” and won’t do anything to help HTC meet its objectives. Once a brand (any brand) has poisoned a customer marketing alone statistically doesn’t get them to come back so there won’t be a lot of category 4 purchasers converted because of the campaign.
So category 3 is the biggest opportunity. That and elevating the opinion of HTC and propensity to buy for those in category 2. The success of the campaign rests on how well it appeals to those two categories and will be measured by a reversal in HTC’s decline. So HTC loyalists can “love” the campaign and people can comment on its innovativeness but the only thing that matters is whether or not it brings in new customers and revenue. It's not going to have an impact in Q3 because it's almost over and HTC's projecting their first loss for that quarter. So we won't know how effective the campaign is (or is starting to be, it runs for two years) until the end of Q4. But there will be a slew of campaigns running pre-holiday including the LG G2, Moto X, SGS4 (it's still new to people that are using older phones), Note 3, Sony Honomi, and iP5s/c. So there's lot of messaging that HTC's campaign will be competing against and Apple and Samsung do a lot of saturation which is particularly hard to be memorable against because repetition trumps the creative in driving awareness.
Nice!! HTC is doing a much better job with advertising this device. After I bought my One, three of the people I talked to about it's first words were "Oh I just saw a commercial for that!" That has NEVER been the case with HTC before! Great phone, deserves their marketing attention.
I honestly can't say I enjoyed the ad... I wish it were more minimalist.
It fits really well with rdj personality, it's really different for an advert, catches attention, gets people talking. I think its really clever advert. I honestly can't think of a better way to use RDJ, follow-up adverts will probably include him using the phone of something simialr, this is definitely HTC on the right track
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Alright, at least two people who I know watched the ad went on ebay and brought their own one. I'd put them into category 3. I'm impressed. The ad at least got them to do a bit of research (I assume) or they just impulsively brought the one upon watching the ad. Thought I'd share this, someone else might find this interesting
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Nitin985 said:
It fits really well with rdj personality.
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RDJ is a gift and a curse. A gift because it'll create a lot of attention for the campaign. A curse because if all people talk about and remember are those "RDJ commercials” as opposed to "HTC's new commercials" it'll do squat for HTC and win awards on the "creative" side and fail miserably on the "effectiveness (EG: revenue)" side. In advertising/marketing you never want the creative to upstage or overpower the product/service it’s there to support. I showed the ad to my "category 3" non-geek friends without any intro. When it was over I asked "what was it for?" None of them knew. Hardly a relevant focus group but interesting nonetheless.
Hey guys! Have you seen this commercial/sponsorship?
Our beautiful phone at 1:38, 1:43, 2:21, 2:31, 3:08, 3:14, 3:23.
I usually don't listen to this genre of music, but I enjoyed this one... One...