Database Users

Dual Boot?

Would it be possibleto dual-boot a desktop OS like windows or more likely, ubuntu?
And if so, will things like firefox and torrents work?
And if so...a gtab would replace a lappy....
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Windows, I am sorry to say 100% NO.
Galaxy Tab or rather Tegra 2 is an ARM architecture (SoC - system on chip) completely different from x86 platform (coming from the first IBM PC XT). Windows 8 is supposed to be designed with both platforms in mind as ARM architecture is slowly catching up with x86 capabilities.
In regard of LINUX... I do not know but I would be rather surprised if there were no other than Android distributions based on this system.
Try this links:
http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
http://www.debian.org/ports/arm/
http://www.ubuntu.com/news/arm-linux
or simply google ;-)

I have some questions and need suggestions

1. Are the only Windows 8 tablets without a fan equipped with Intel Atom Z2760 CPU?
2. What would you suggest when I would want a Windows 8 tablet without a fan?
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app

Given that x86-capable processors run pretty hot, you're not going to find a lot of options. Some of the Atom chips may get by on passive cooling... maybe. Frankly, if you want a fan-less tablet, that usually means ARM, and that means Windows RT.
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...

1. All Atom tablets are fanless as far as I know. My Samsung 500T barely even got warm and I think that was more the LCD than the processor. I don't believe there are any other x86 processors that are fanless right now.
2. Obvious an Atom tablet. You'll probably need to narrow it down a bit on what you are looking for. Is the tablet form factor more important or the laptop form factor. If using it as a tablet is more important, you'll probably want a lighter and smaller 10.1 inch tablet like the upcoming ASUS Vivotab Smart. If you want a laptop form factor with keyboard for typing, then a 11.6 inch tablet is idea for the larger keyboard size. Also do you need a pen built in, do you need a Wacom digitizer?
---------- Post added at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 AM ----------
GoodDayToDie said:
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that thin at all. Windows RT tablets will never be able to run x86 desktop applications with it's ARM processor. That hack just lets you run unsigned Windows RT ARM applications.
---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------
PS. Maybe AMD's Temash APU might be fanless. Not entirely sure yet. It's shipping Q2 this year, but don't know when we'll see any tablets with it inside.

@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.

GoodDayToDie said:
@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An alpha tool made 4 days ago that can run notepad.exe and a 14 year old 2D game on an ARM processor. How could I have missed that?
Can you even install Photoshop, much less run it with this alpha tool yet? You can barely run Photoshop on an Atom, I think running it on an ARM through emulation will be more than painful.
I think it's a bit premature to be touting this as a solution to running x86 apps on an ARM tablet.

I view it quite differently: in any four days, an alpha tools has been written that can run simple apps, even old games, without recompiling them... and has already dramatically improved in performance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're going to be completely be able to replace an x86 machine with an ARM one... but the reason for that is simply a matter of performance of the underlying hardware. For low-demand stuff (the kind of thing you might run on a fanless tablet anyhow) it's not an unreasonable goal. Of course it's not there yet... but a week ago, it wasn't possible at all.

Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?

Wrong post.

kaspar737 said:
Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.

Ravynmagi said:
My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app

kaspar737 said:
Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows RT apps run on Windows 8 too and Windows 8 will be shipped on millions and millions of computers around the world. So I think the Windows Store apps (aka Metro style) that run on RT and 8 will eventually show up in good numbers from developers. So if you do go with Windows RT, the apps will come, even if people abandon the OS and hardware platform.
Windows 8 has the best of both worlds though, you can run the RT apps and the x86 apps. And the Atom is the best of both worlds, the efficiency of an ARM processor with the ability to run x86 apps.

Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.

GoodDayToDie said:
Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."

Ravynmagi said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could just link to the article
And, yes, the Atom Z2760 is more power efficient.
As far as tablets go, though, all the Atom tablets I've looked at have felt like cheap toys, whereas the Surface is possibly the best built device I've ever used. That's the main reason I chose the Surface RT, it just blows all the competition away in build quality.
As far as applications go, neither the Atom nor the Tegra are very well suited for intensive tasks like Photoshop and the like. They're both going to perform quite poorly at those tasks.
The Atom does have the existing software library, though in reality a large number of what people will need/want to use has already been ported over to Arm.
An interesting thing to note is that even though the Atom is more efficient than the Tegra the Surface still had better battery life compared to the W510 by almost an hour.
Build Quality: Surface beats W510 hands down. Acer has okay build quality, but the Surface is superb.
Performance: The Atom nudges out the Tegra
Applications: Any applications that need x86 won't be usable on the Atom, but they will run, so the Atom wins. The Tegra is rapidly catching up, though.
Battery Life: The Surface beat the W510 by nearly an hour, therefore I'm calling it in favor of the Surface. The Atom itself is more efficient, but that doesn't mean that the tablets built using the Atom are.

I stand corrected. Atom, even an older Atom, is surprisingly competitive with ARM on a power efficiency standpoint. I don't know that I agree with handing it the win outright, it won some of the "total usage" charts but lost some of the others, occasionally substantially. It's certainly a viable option for a mobile device though. Interesting... time was, Intel had difficulty squeezing their chips down to 5W, while ARM was expected to run at around 300mW. Apparently I need to keep a better eye on these things.

Nexus 10 Ubuntu

Hey guys,
I was just wondering, if I were to install ubuntu (or any other form of linux for that matter) to a flash drive and connect it via the OTG usb, could I use some kind of app to open it and boot into Ubuntu?

Qaz_92 said:
Hey guys,
I was just wondering, if I were to install ubuntu (or any other form of linux for that matter) to a flash drive and connect it via the OTG usb, could I use some kind of app to open it and boot into Ubuntu?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly it's not possible to simply put Ubuntu on a flash drive and then load it onto the Nexus 10 from the flash drive using an OTG usb cable, due to the differences between how loading operating systems work on a desktop and embedded/mobile devices. Also any desktop versions of Ubuntu are meant for the x86/x64 CPU architecture while the SoC (System on a Chip) the Nexus 10 uses rellies on the ARM architecture instruction set. Canonical developed Ubuntu for the Nexus 7 but currently has no plans to release a version for the Nexus 10 due to the architecture differences between the Tegra 3 processor in the Nexus 7 and the Exynos 5250.

shimp208 said:
Sadly it's not possible to simply put Ubuntu on a flash drive and then load it onto the Nexus 10 from the flash drive using an OTG usb cable, due to the differences between how loading operating systems work on a desktop and embedded/mobile devices. Also any desktop versions of Ubuntu are meant for the x86/x64 CPU architecture while the SoC (System on a Chip) the Nexus 10 uses rellies on the ARM architecture instruction set. Canonical developed Ubuntu for the Nexus 7 but currently has no plans to release a version for the Nexus 10 due to the architecture differences between the Tegra 3 processor in the Nexus 7 and the Exynos 5250.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually... not entirely true. If the drive uses a filesystem that Android recognizes, you use the ARM version of Ubuntu and you have both root and busybox on your tablet, you might be able to chroot into it. To get the UI working, you'd need a VNC server on the Ubuntu side and a VNC client on the Android side. At that point though, I'd say why bother when you can just run it from an image on your internal storage? Also know that this method is not going to be very fast and will not be very battery efficient due to the VNC stuff.

I was here thinking to myself: Samsung Chromebook has a 1.7Ghz Exynos 5 ARM processor and comes with Chrome OS as default. There is an article in Phoronix comparing the performance of this processor with Lubuntu on it against an Atom D525, and Exynos beats Atom in performance.
Considering that Samsung Chromebook is made by the same makers of Samsung Nexus 10, I believe that at some level the drivers could be the same (some level!). Could the person that ported Lubuntu to Chromebook do the same with Nexus 10 (same processor, close drivers)?

robotsapiens said:
I was here thinking to myself: Samsung Chromebook has a 1.7Ghz Exynos 5 ARM processor and comes with Chrome OS as default. There is an article in Phoronix comparing the performance of this processor with Lubuntu on it against an Atom D525, and Exynos beats Atom in performance.
Considering that Samsung Chromebook is made by the same makers of Samsung Nexus 10, I believe that at some level the drivers could be the same (some level!). Could the person that ported Lubuntu to Chromebook do the same with Nexus 10 (same processor, close drivers)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you could in theory port Chrome OS or Lubuntu to the Nexus 10 using the Samsung Chromebook as a starting point however you would still have to tweak many of the drivers and optimize it for the configuration of a tablet (Touchscreen, button-less except for volume rocker and power button.

Tablet PC that can run Ubuntu/Linux AND FULL Windows 8

I'm searching for a tablet that comes with a full windows 8 but that is also supported by the linux kernel so I could install Ubuntu on it.
I thought that an atom Z2760 based tablet was the way to go, but I've discovered that that processor is not nor will be supported by the linux kernel, so that was a no go.
Atom Z2760 based tablets were relatively not so expensive, so I'm looking for a tablet that costs under 500 euros/550$ and the screen size to be 8" or above (10" would be perfect)
Do you have any suggestions for me?
Thanks in advance!

As you point out, the atom tablets cannot run linux. That leaves you with intel core i3/i5/i7. I dont know of any within your budget.
Only things I can think of are either
A) wait quite a while. The bay trail CPU's are back to what you expect and are normal x86 processors capable of running windows 8 and linux if you wish. However I dont think they are due until 2014.
B) Virtualbox on an atom tablet. No one wants to do that really.
C) Increase your budget.

If you don't mind *installing* Win8 rather than having it come pre-installed, there are plenty of older tablet PCs which will do the job, and while most of them initially retailed for far above your cutoff price, you can usually find them fairly cheap nowadays.
For example, here's an older Dell Latitude 10 tablet that uses an Oak Trail Atom CPU and runs Win7 by default, and is in your price range: http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...arch.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dfh&cs=22&puid=2e477084
Bear in mind though: those specs are pretty bad by today's standards. It will run Win8, and it will run any desktop Linux distro I know of, but it won't run either one terribly well.

Thanks for your replies, really appreciate them!
Ok, I guess I'll just pass this generation of affordable Win8 tablets and get a laptop.
Once again, thanks for your help!

[Q] Dual-booting Dell Venue 8 Pro with Android

Hi,
Is there any chance of dualbooting Dell Venue 8 Pro with Windows 8 and Android? I like Windows 8 but would also like to be able to use Android on this awesome tablet.
If not dual boot, is there any other way of using Android as virtual machine or something that provides full touch and other sensor's support?
Thanks.

Don't "think" Android. Think Linux instead. It theoretically can be done, but the fact that the UEFI is 32bit while Linux uses 64bit.
You would disable Secure Boot in the BIOS. The other issue is a lack of drivers for the touchscreen during installation.
The stress isn't worth it in my opinion. Leave the device stock as is.

I'm waiting for my Venue to arrive. I plan to try running Android on it with Genymotion
http://www.genymotion.com/

Not worth it
A_Str8 said:
I'm waiting for my Venue to arrive. I plan to try running Android on it with Genymotion
http://www.genymotion.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm downloading it now since it is just an emulator running inside VirtualBox.
There are many Android games, that I've already boght and would want to be able to play on the Venue8 Pro. I'll let you know how it works out in a few hours.
EDIT: I've installed and ran the application. As it stated, it is really just an emulator VirtualBox running a stripped down Android image.
Enabling my real cam with the emulator gave me my first BSOD. Installed a few premium games that I had purchased on my real device. The frame rate in the virtual environment wasn't smooth. It was obvious that you were using an emulator. Genymotion is a very good attempt at emulating Andriod on a running PC, however this solution is not for me. It isn't a replacement for a dual-boot scenario with the native OS.

So what would you guys recommend? I have tried both BlueStacks player and an Android virual machine on my Venue 8 Pro. I really want to be running Android smoothly.

To be honest, Genymotion, is smoother than Bluestacks, since it has the Vanilla Android interface (without Samsung's Touchwiz or HTC's Sense). The problem is with trying to use the tablet's hardware such as the camera or gyroscope. The process is then not smooth and gameplay (for serious graphic intensive android games) are choppy or lagging at best. You get the feeling that it is all being emulated and not virtualized in the true sense.
I'm convinced you would have better success running Linux natively then finding a method of running Android apps as opposed to running Android on the device.
Android requires an ARM SoC processor. The Venue 8 Pro uses a full X86/64-bit processor. Therefore Android would need to be re-compiled. This isn't worth the effort in my opinion.

I'm wondering if these instructions will work for the Venue. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2321292
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app

It looks plausible. I'd create a system image of my entire system partiotion before even attempting this.

Anonymously_Unknown said:
To be honest, Genymotion, is smoother than Bluestacks, since it has the Vanilla Android interface (without Samsung's Touchwiz or HTC's Sense). The problem is with trying to use the tablet's hardware such as the camera or gyroscope. The process is then not smooth and gameplay (for serious graphic intensive android games) are choppy or lagging at best. You get the feeling that it is all being emulated and not virtualized in the true sense.
I'm convinced you would have better success running Linux natively then finding a method of running Android apps as opposed to running Android on the device.
Android requires an ARM SoC processor. The Venue 8 Pro uses a full X86/64-bit processor. Therefore Android would need to be re-compiled. This isn't worth the effort in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But isn't install Linux also difficult (given the UEFI problems)? And will I be able to run Android apps smoothly on Linux somehow?

Linux to me would be easier since it already "exists" for PC. You should be able to install it in theory with a USB mouse and keyboard attached to a USB hub. Android on the other hand would simply not work "natively" with your Dell Venue 8 since it would have to be re-compiled for this purpose. I can't imagine why the source code for an Android app can't be re-compiled for Linux despite the differences in processor type.
My only desire for Android on my Tablet is to be able to play all those games that I've bought for my Samsung Galaxy Note2,
If I knew how to compile Android from source code and simply slipstream the touchscreen drivers that would be great. Let's agree to propose this to the developers in the phone section of this forum such as Cyanogem Mod so that something can be custom built for our devices.

Contrary to the above poster. There is no issue with android across architectures.
Android apps are compiled to dalvik bytecode and run within the dalvik virtual machine. Its platform independent. x86 builds of android exist. There are x86 android devices on shelves, there is android-x86 and there is android-ia. Android is also available on MIPS processors. Community ports to PowerPC have been done. As long as you have a dalvik virtual machine you can run the dalvik bytecode, problem solved.
The driver issue is a big one. x86 operating systems dont have the issue of having to target different devices. But there arent touchscreen, wifi, bluetooth or sensor drivers for all combinations of hardware out there. The asus w700 seems to be the device best off in that regard.
Theoretically it could be done for the venue though. Without those drivers though it will be unusably slow (software drawn screen etc) and interaction wouldnt be possible without external USB.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
x86 builds of android exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for letting me know.

Has anyone given this a go with the Venue Pro 8 yet? The IA (Intel architecture) android project seems quite mature. You could try booting from an SD card?

CL0SeY said:
Has anyone given this a go with the Venue Pro 8 yet? The IA (Intel architecture) android project seems quite mature. You could try booting from an SD card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking of trying that but was too afraid to run into a problem that would ruin my new tablet.

Atom x86 phones and tablets use libhoudini to be able to run arm apps, so android dual boot is theoretically possible
SM N9005 Rocking Temasek CM11 With Temasek Kernel

xueyao said:
Atom x86 phones and tablets use libhoudini to be able to run arm apps, so android dual boot is theoretically possible
SM N9005 Rocking Temasek CM11 With Temasek Kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats a different problem and solution entirely

CL0SeY said:
Has anyone given this a go with the Venue Pro 8 yet? The IA (Intel architecture) android project seems quite mature. You could try booting from an SD card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read, booting from an SD card is not an possible. That's what has stopped me from trying this. I'm not interested in resizing my C drive
In theory, it sounds like the Acer instructions should work on the Dell, but once you're in Android, there may be some driver issues.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app

A_Str8 said:
From what I've read, booting from an SD card is not an possible. That's what has stopped me from trying this. I'm not interested in resizing my C drive
In theory, it sounds like the Acer instructions should work on the Dell, but once you're in Android, there may be some driver issues.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am planning to give this a try if it this doesn't break my Venue 8 Pro. Will it break it?

elixir_pr said:
I am planning to give this a try if it this doesn't break my Venue 8 Pro. Will it break it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is never any guarantee of not breaking a device! Perhaps starting with a USB OTG cable and booting the USB might be a first step - without installing to the device... that is if that is possible. I know it worked on my x86-64bit laptop, but the Venue Pro 8 is 32 bit apparently?
Anyway I don't have a Venue Pro 8 of my own... perhaps there is a guide somewhere on taking a full backup of your SSD in the device (or a similar device), including all the partitions etc?

CL0SeY said:
There is never any guarantee of not breaking a device! Perhaps starting with a USB OTG cable and booting the USB might be a first step - without installing to the device... that is if that is possible. I know it worked on my x86-64bit laptop, but the Venue Pro 8 is 32 bit apparently?
Anyway I don't have a Venue Pro 8 of my own... perhaps there is a guide somewhere on taking a full backup of your SSD in the device (or a similar device), including all the partitions etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I about to take the plunge very soon. I just completed the usb part of the tut. I am gonna use the IA3 file. I guess Ill see what happens soon. I already took the time to offload my backup on a usb, initially to make more space since I got the 16gig which really left me with only 6-8 gb. Taking out the recovery partition made about 3.45 gb free from the tab.
I already disabled "Secure Boot"
After doing this and restarting this you will run into the problem about the bitlocker and needing to type in your bitlocker code from MS again. You could bypass and disable this by hitting disable bitlocker. But for the concern it will come up. I plan on making a thread for this and be the pioneer guy.
So yeah kinda scared to start it as I got this when MS store had there $99 deal.... waited for 8 hours till i got mine and hate to break it....