So does anyone else think that perhaps HTC releases their devices incomplete and in ****ty states because they know they can half ass it and have the community pick up the slack? I know with out some of the big hitters on this forum most android phones would not be as feature rich as they are. How much of the community code do you think makes it into an HTC Sense release for a particular phone?
midri said:
So does anyone else think that perhaps HTC releases their devices incomplete and in ****ty states because they know they can half ass it and have the community pick up the slack? I know with out some of the big hitters on this forum most android phones would not be as feature rich as they are. How much of the community code do you think makes it into an HTC Sense release for a particular phone?
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I would say very little makes it into a Sense release. Ideas might, but actual code, I doubt it.
Now into the actual AOSP branches, there is quite a bit of community code, which is also at the base of Sense ROMs of course. But I highly doubt any of our code is in the HTC code bases.
It's ashamed too. Do they not realize what a freaking gold mine these forums are? They basically got brilliant guys fixing their bugs, finding new uses for their machines, and finding new ways to please their customers. If I was HTC, I would have a whole department just scouring forums like xda-developers for ways to improve my product...and for free too.
Or maybe HTC has a group of developers that work for them to produce products that are more than adequate for the general public who purchase said products, and prefer to spend their time making more with less, instead of less with more. Better for HTC and all manufacturers really, to cater to the majority (of which we, in this forum are not a part of, as we are obviously the higher end users) for that is where the money is. Should note that there are far fewer geeks than there are "normal" people.
It's really so disappointing to see the reception given to SamsungJohn here in XDA. I know many of you are angry about the Froyo delays, but *****ing out the social media liasson won't accomplish anything.
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
And I think people need to stop with the notion that Samsung is evil or just wants to hurt users. They're a huge company; it may not have even been on the radar of the decisionmakers that we were dissatisfied.
We're in a fairly recent and novel paradigm where users expect timely software updates--a year and a half ago nobody expected that. You bought a phone and maybe there might be a firmware update somewhere down the road. And out of the millions of people who bought SGS phones, we're just a very small minority. If we want cooperation from Samsung we need to impress upon them the advantages of collaborating with devs, because honestly they're going to make billions either way. If we demonstrate that cooperation will involve crass tantrums, they'll just sell their phones to the millions of people who don't give a crap about independent development. Do we really want that kind of belligerent attitude a la Motorola? I don't know about you, but I'd rather we try to move Samsung towards us rather than away from us.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Samsung is trying to help us and we are biting our noses off just to spite our face. I think they are doing a great thing by coming on here.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Agreed...well said...both of you.
I agree that was pretty messed up. It's bad enough all the devs have been scrared away. Ex-da isn't what it used to.
I totally agree. The guy is not a decision maker at Samsung - he came here to try to get feedback about how the company can improve and people just flamed the guy relentlessly. Further proof that there are too many children and buffoons here. It's no wonder that devs loathe coming here. FYI to the guys that tore into SamsungJohn - Krylon had a good conversation with Sammy and they are looking to get in contact with Sombionix as well.
What's not on their radar with a 90% surety is timely software updates. Hardware companies are going to drag their feet as much as possible to provide software upgrades for old hardware, if they do it at all.
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm totally sympathetic to the people who are fed up and say #neveragain. But the solution to that is to complain through other channels and then never buy Samsung again.
This rep came here reaching his hand out to the dev community, and insulting him or whining does a serious disservice to everyone else here. I think he came here to try to create a mutually beneficial relationship, not take complaint tickets. Many of us are skeptical, but we think it's worth seeing if anything can come of this (and if you aren't, the actual devs are).
BorisZX6R said:
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I was one of those that got beholded they flat out lied on that one. Here I am again with the vibrant guessing thats samsung mo to screw ya
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Oh yea, before the flaming closet dwellers start in....
i.e.
" Hi, I'm John, I work for Samsung, and they have given me the job position of liason with the public.
Now before I go any further, please understand that I am under corporate restraints and NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) so that I can only give so much info and so much data. I do not know yet if they will allow me to give access to unreleased software.
So, within those restraints I will do my best to provide what I can.
Yes, I know a great many of you are upset with Samsung and that is why I am here.
Please go easy on me as I do not own or control the company"
Now, would that really have been so very tough of an introduction ?
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
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It's one thing to remain skeptical towards the guy and his motives but its completely another to flat out accuse him of lying and subterfuge merely because he may have omitted the exact words you need to hear or he wasn't nice enough, etc. It seems fairly obvious to me that if ANY large company was to hold a Q&A session on specifics of perceived missteps, they would choose a much more public forum - not a niche community of developers. On the other hand, if they wanted to incorporate new features or contract out some good developers, they are in the right place.
I don't doubt they (samsung) aren't doing this out of the goodness of their collective hearts, but if this is how changes are effected, I'll take it.
Totally agree with you Kubernetes, people think they'll get something done by impressing their rage upon the messenger. So far all of his threads are closed due to people completely ignoring the instructions and asking for release dates and trolling samsung saying they're gonna tell all their friends to never buy samsung, it's really disgusting if you ask me. I dunno about you guys but I'm the only person I know who cares if samsung releases timely updates...everyone else I know is NOT a power user and could not care less about updates. I think if outsiders say, higher ups in Samsung, were to read those threads they'd see more hostility and uncooperativeness
than a community that's ready to work with them.
Main reason I dislike all the people flaming him is because as soon as I try to ask a legit question, the thread is already locked. Trolls are blaring out people who want to handle this like adults.
Please don't try to put words in my mouth unless you intend to become my wife. I'm a dominating top so consider the job well before volunteering.
At no point did I say that John was lying, yet you say very directly that I did.
Exactly whom is the lier ?
Well honestly the way he was treated was bad, but again that is the way Samsung has treated us from the beginning, but I do have to say something about this section (vibrant) As a whole we fight with each other too much. Just take a look at the 2.2.1 rom release in the development section. It just one big ***** fest, and it is stupid. We need to focus on fixing and making our phones better not our EGO's. If we as a community can't get our collective a$$ together we will just fade away and kill our developer support. There is too much drama. One group doesn't want to work with another so on so forth. If we pooled our collective resources then we could be great.
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
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Click to collapse
It Is damage control, but that said, they are (cause they recognize not to do so is suicide) reaching out, but the teaser is just a tactic to buy more time.
I am in the corporate world and I am Senior Exec, So this is just normal proceedings from a business to engage - delay and then reveal what they really are going to offer. That tactic is done cause it lowers expectations so if it is not enough you do not end up with a mass rebellion on your hands. Samsung John is a Big Boy, he knows the rules and expects to hear both happy and hostile comments and takes them like a grain of salt. So there is nothing for us to be ashamed of, he asked for our opinion and comments and we gave them to him.... the good, the bad and the ugly
One other note SamsungJohn released the exact same email in every Galaxy forum, so do not be wooed into thinking he was talking directly to us. It was can statement and a canned response/followup.
This might be his big announcement
I have been a user here four about 2 months and have never posted because I know how to search and I don't want to deal with the egos and the flaming, but this was posted on another forum (has nothing to do with phones) that I use.
"I talked with someone in STA (the division of the company that focuses on mobile devices), no plans at least in the immediate future are int he works for OTA updates on the Galaxy S 3G lineup. Which has me pissed. (edit: by "immediate future" I mean we're looking at like March for the mandatory OTA update, which leads me to think this hardwire update is just a beta)
Even as an employee, I can guarantee this is going to be my last Samsung phone. I STILL don't have Froyo because of all the hoops I had to go through in addition to running errands today.
Why you're forced to use a completely different connection mode, when virtually every other phone on the market can update either OTA or with a standard USB mount point, then Kies refused to connect until I turned on USB debugging, turned off USB debugging, and restarted Kies.
Now? With 88% battery life, I need to let it charge to 100% just to even start downloading the update."
Idid not include a link since it is private forum and the guy has a job he would probably like to keep. This was posted last month when the Kies update came out.
With that said it would still be nice to work with samsung, what may come from it might not be the holy grail, but at least something may come from it.
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
Kubernetes said:
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
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that. right. there.
Mannymal said:
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
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Click to collapse
Jesus that's myopic. Samsung doesn't need anything from us, we're just a tiny minority of people who have bought their phones. They clearly think there's something to be gained from forming relationships with devs, which is why SamsungJohn is here and not Android Central or a more consumer oriented site.
You want source? Great, I'm sure that's what Krylon and Supercurio are telling them. Like adults. And I'm sure they're also explaining how timely source release can benefit Samsung as well, instead of demanding it or crying about how we're owed better support.
Because in the end, he doesn't have to be here and Samsung doesn't have to do jack about helping XDA because they'll still sell a ****-ton of phones regardless. If you can't understand that there are things we want from Samsung and it's not "appeasement" to try to get them, I have no words for you. It's not like we're holding all the cards and some horrible fate will befall Samsung if they decide this is too much of a headache.
I know this may sound far-fetched, but I am proposing a possible merger of developers from all the Galaxy S series. I know that the hardware may slightly differ, but apart from a led flash here, ffc, keyboard, and 4g, the hardware is the same. After all, 10+ devs are better than 1 or 2 per section. Perhaps a seperate subforum for devs or senior members only to create and test new roms can be created, members test with their own phones and report, and devs can collaborate.
I understand that some junior members may complain about beta bugs and such, but that is why I proposed a restricted area only to those who fully comprehend that a new rom does include bugs.
I know CM7 is such a project, but perhaps we should extend that scope to something beyond that, and utilize the advantage that Samsung has given us by 10 million sales.
I would love this, but I doubt many will come from I9000 computer...
I9000 had everything, we need from them, but they dont need anything from us.
But fascinate, captivate etc. they might, post on their forums as well.
Nice idea but the phones are different enough to make real problems.
We are lucky that the Vibrant is closest to the I9000. This was the main reason I bought this phone
Can't hurt to try it. After all, once one stable build that fixes compatibility issues is done, then we are set...
We could melt them all together and make 1 super developer!
I just wanted to make this thread in hopes that it would possibly get a sticky or some sort of recognition. I see a lot of people making tons of new threads and comments that I think are pointless and should not be repeated over and over again. More specifically like: The Xoom is "dead", the development scene for the Xoom is going nowhere, why aren't they porting more OS's to the Xoom, and why is the Xoom behind in development... those kinds of things I see people say a lot around here.
The answer: The Honeycomb source code is not, and will not be released by Google... period. They have it locked up tight, and are not letting it out until they feel it is ready to be released to the public. The developers cannot do much more than they already have done without the Honeycomb source code. End of story.
The Xoom development scene does assume that everything will be all set and released with the Ice Cream Sandwich release here in the near future, which indeed makes perfect sense. And, because the Xoom was the first Honeycomb tablet, it's Google's baby: The one and only true and complete vanilla stock Google experience tablet. Thus: It is being protected by Google, if you will.
Maybe we will stop getting loads of threads complaining about the same exact thing. The answer to these questions have already been answered a billions times about 5 months ago when Google said that they will be holding onto the Honeycomb source until further notice. Please read this, everyone. Not trying to be mean or anything, but... I'm surprised that the Mods haven't spoken up about this. I thought one was supposed to read and make sure that the topic they are about to post about hasn't been mentioned yet before making a new thread?
I'm a very nice guy, and I am not one to complain about anything. I love helping people: it's what I do best! But... we do need to get this thing under control. Almost every day I see a new thread or a comment saying something like "the Xoom development scene is dead". This just shouldn't be happening. It's almost like bashing the Xoom in its own home. That's not a healthy thing to do now is it? Or trying to make it look bad and outdated by saying that the scene is dead, when in reality it really is the complete opposite. Overall: It's wasting thread space, causing a lot of annoyances, and a lot of the frequent Xoom posters such as myself are having to repeat themselves a billion times over with every new thread and comment about this topic. Hopefully something can be done about this.
Thanks for listening! All I ask is for people to read before posting these kinds of threads or comments on your friendly neighborhood XDA forums.
Yes, good points diablo2224, and to add to that, all of the improvements and increased functionality that the Team Tiamat and others have brought to the Xoom are really vital to it's continued relevence. Solarnz just gave us a peek at some new goodies in an upgoming rom and they look great! Xoom development is far from dead, source code or no source code.
I've seen the threads and it hasn't deterred me, the fact is Google is a monster company now and them buying Motorola mobility is one of the factors I bought my Xoom the other day... I personally see more to come and can wait
okantomi said:
Yes, good points diablo2224, and to add to that, all of the improvements and increased functionality that the Team Tiamat and others have brought to the Xoom are really vital to it's continued relevence. Solarnz just gave us a peek at some new goodies in an upgoming rom and they look great! Xoom development is far from dead, source code or no source code.
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Indeed. Team Tiamat is really doing an excellent job. Without the source they are doing spectacular! It amazes me at the stuff they have pulled off so far. The new universal rooting method for all Xoom's is quite an impressive feat.
SuicideMyk said:
I've seen the threads and it hasn't deterred me, the fact is Google is a monster company now and them buying Motorola mobility is one of the factors I bought my Xoom the other day... I personally see more to come and can wait
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Personally, the comments and threads don't particularly bother me very much either. I just want the people to know what the situation is, and why the scene has been "slower" than the other Honeycomb tablets. And to stop making negative comments towards the Xoom in that factor. If we all were a little more knowledgeable about reasoning rather than rationality... I think the comments and threads about this would come to a halt as we would all be on the same page.
" The Honeycomb source code is not, and will not be released by Google... period."
This isn't entirely true... just because its not out doesn't mean its not coming out.
They were waiting for ICS to be released first since Ice cream sandwich shares a lot of the code base of Honeycomb.... I imagine its going to be out sometime during the holidays.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/google-keeping-honeycomb-source-code-on-ice-says-its-not-ready/
That Engadget post is over 6 months old...
The official word as of today is they will never release the Honeycomb source code, and the ICS source code will be released a few weeks after the launch of the Galaxy Nexus.
why no HC sources? Well, the reason behind the decision to not release it still stands: it was an interim release meant at the tablet market, and they didn't want everyone to jump on it and release phones and what-not based on that code. ICS is the solution to that problem.
Just tell us we'll have unimaginable coolness on our Xooms.
Someone asked for a petition for the release of the Exynos 4 sources so I created one for you to sign.
And so you don't have to say it, the petition is useless sense Samsung won't release a thing exept GB leftovers.
Now sign and hold your breath!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/release-of-the-exynos-4-sources/
Seriously? Not Gonna happen!!
Oh we tried that already. Even the media ****storm that the SIII Petition Thread and the SII Thread (and others) created wouldn`t help. They did release useless junk and a new petition won`t help in my opinion. Check out this thread for more details on how Samsung screwed us yet again:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1929188
and this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1925709
Yes, **** Samsung and its ignorance of scene wants and wishes. How dare they not release source code for proprietary hardware.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
It won't gonna change. We are only a small percentage of their customers so it won't matter
So the only to do I to do not buy a Sammy phone ever again if you feel you've been screwed up. I'm feeling this way. Sammy won't see my money ever again. And the money of the people asking me for tech guidance.