Related
I would like to look towards the admins and moderators for guidance on where this should be placed. But I would like to start a bounty on Android 2.0 for the G1. The device has aged gracefully for most of us due to the tireless efforts of the devs here, and I think its time for us, or at least me, to give something back. I am having a hard time even considering a device made by another manufacturer, when ATT 3G bands are available, based on the sole fact that I wouldn't be able to come here and get the hotted builds and customizations.
I would like to start a donation or bounty, most likely through paypal, that anyone could contribute to, to be paid out to the developer that manages to squeeze a usable and feature complete build of 2.0 onto the G1. No I am not quite sure how to decide who wins, but it's just something I would like to see done. I will start of the bounty/donations with a 100USD bid if we can come up with guidelines to follow.
Just a thought..what does everyone else think?
Jubeh dropped a 2.0 rom today. Maxisma, ccyrowski, and cyanogen are all working on 2.0 roms. It sounds like you were thinking it would take an act of god to get 2.0 on the G1. It doesn't. However, the best devs are presently working on it.
Not that bad of an idea. I don't think the dev challenge on the market pays out to any of these custom roms, only apps developed and put on the market. However, I don't know if there is a dev out there that a possible $1,500 will make much of a difference to. I'd think that they would be work on these roms anyway.
Quite the contrary, I know it will happen fast, and I see that only minutes ago a rom was release, but I think we all can agree, no google sync, market, camera, etc..is hardly a fully functional daily driver. It usually takes several iterations of any one rom to get it stable and fully functioning.
Beside that, IMHO, isn't the point, the point was that I wanted to find a way to show my thanks and gratitude to the devs who crank out great software without slapping a pricetag on it. I think that all work should be rewarded, same as the linux projects I contribute too. The G1 is the oldest, slowest device with the least ram...however, I still cling to my precious because of the work thee guys here do, that keep it feeling fresh and as peppy as a spring chicken.
I just thought I might put the idea out to the community, rather than making individual small donations myself to individuals.
unchainedrssr said:
Not that bad of an idea. I don't think the dev challenge on the market pays out to any of these custom roms, only apps developed and put on the market. However, I don't know if there is a dev out there that a possible $1,500 will make much of a difference to. I'd think that they would be work on these roms anyway.
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Yup, they will crank them out regardless lol. But as a engineer by day, I know those little gift cards and small rewards for excellence from mgmt DO go a long way. As a photographer, consultant, and web designer by nite, those big tips that were necessary go a very very long way.
if you want to donate, donate directly to whichever dev you feel deserves it.
im holding out til cyanogen gets 2.0 running, im sure it wont take him long.
Its already being worked on. Cyanogen would of won this hands down though! ;-)
G1-evolve said:
Its already being worked on. Cyanogen would of won this hands down though! ;-)
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Yeah. it may just be to late to consider at this point, maybe next time. Cyanogen is a beast, but Jubeh's rom got out the gate pretty fast! I am surprised to see the solid performance without a tremendous amount of kernel hacking.
i dont think this is a good idea... you might end up with dev's spitting out roms that seems complete and good, but because of the rush and competition the quality underneath isnt that great.(i doubt it would happen cause i dont believe android devs would this, but you never know! esepecially if the bounty would become like 100's of dollars)
like that one guy said just donate to whoever you think deserves it. i'd probably split it up.. give a good big portion to cyanogen.. and then all the other devs that help make these awesome mods possible
Waiting for drivers...
At this point we are waiting on new qualcomm drivers to allow hardware accelerated encoding/decoding. We don't quite have all of the piece to the puzzle needed to get a fully functional Eclair build for the ADP1 from AOSP source.
I'm not knocking the idea suggested here. I'm all for donating to your dev of choice. Just letting some of you know why we are in a holding pattern.
It may very well NOT be in the best interest of the community, which is why I put it out there, it sounds like most people thus far don't feel like its a good idea. Whether it's the vocal minority, or a representative majority, is yet to be seen.
Either way, thanks for the update TheGreenJester, my thumbs are already aching with anticipation.
Just let them be. The devs will release these things when it is ready. Don't pressure them. Giving them these huge amounts of donations like a bounty will only give them pressure
Like someone mentioned, putting a significant monetary incentive on release will only cause developers to spit out subpar ROMs. I'm sure Cyanogen and some others could have a more or less functioning ROM out within hours or just a few days, but it would be immensely slow and probably lacking here or there, with an abundance of bugs. It'd be nearly impossible to judge who releases the first "complete" ROM, since there are so many debateable factors comprising "completeness."
Overall, I'm sure the developers are working as quickly as possible to get their ROMs out, so I don't think they need any more incentive. Of course, donations should be made to thank them, but they should be made to different developers from different people. Rather than leave all but one developer with nothing, users should save their money until a ROM is released, and donate to that developer if they believe that ROM is the best. You know, spread the wealth around.
It's a nice thought, but definitely unnecessary.
Besides, I doubt anyone would be willing to send money over to someone with only 18 posts. No offense, but the internet is full of crooks.
what if we made a 4,5,or 6 dev group together to design the 1 big rom and all the donates went to them, not saying all but ive noticed a good bit of donations are based on fanfare. just sayin.
interesting thread
Actually
veritasaequita said:
what if we made a 4,5,or 6 dev group together to design the 1 big rom and all the donates went to them, not saying all but ive noticed a good bit of donations are based on fanfare. just sayin.
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Click to collapse
That's not a bad idea, hmm..
Moved to the appropriate thread as off now.
veritasaequita said:
what if we made a 4,5,or 6 dev group together to design the 1 big rom and all the donates went to them, not saying all but ive noticed a good bit of donations are based on fanfare. just sayin.
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Click to collapse
Too many cooks in the kitchen.
People have different styles, different ways of going about things, and it just seems like forcing a couple developers together wouldn't really help. Besides, some variety is good for everyone.
I mean, everyone's been waiting for this update for months; a fully working version by any number of developers is probably no more than a week away, if that. Just have some patience and let the developers do their thing, and then donate when someone comes up with something you like.
No need to disturb the status quo.
Hi,
the idea is not bad, but without HTC drivers it will be not possible to get full working 2.0 build (Camera ... etc).
I think all the devs waiting for the drivers to make stable 2.0 roms.
this thread should be closed now
OK here goes, the question that is probably obvious to alot of the dev types on these forums, and maybe to some of the non as well. (And yes I full expect to get flamed throughout this thread for my thoughts on this so bring it on).
Question?
Has the business model of the world become so internallized that companies such as our beloved samsung *cough cough choke* , and tmobile really think that they can turn a a semi-blind eye (yes I know that they are aware we root, and flash custom roms) to the incredible talent that is out there? And that becasue they are the giant that the masses will still support them?
Now my thoughts
Samsung has taken months to produce a version of froyo that they could put out to the masses, I really do believe that tmobile plays a heavy part in that as well, adding the bloat and crap that we inevidably remove. Both of them together are to blame.
Now at the same time we have these teams of programmers and graphic artists, designers, and coders that within days (sometimes hours) of new source being leaked they have built stable, custom roms, themes, mods, kernels, lagfixes,,,etc. And these make our phones into what samsung could have only dreamed about.
Also you will never convince me that the leaks are not at times done to help samsung, tmobile, or whoever fix a problem they can't figure out INTERNALLY. (back to the internal business question again)
Now stay with me and remember that I am only questioning big business practices and arrogance,,,don't hate on me!!!
To me the answer to all of this is obvious in the dreamwold state that I am in, so here is what I really don't understand,,
Why are Samsung and T-Mobile not contracting with Teams like Team Whiskey, and Master to build custom roms, with designers like Jdan, and Tonicacid to build themes, with Eugene and Krylon360, chainfire, Whitehawkx, and supercurio, to build custom kernels, and modems? (I know i missed alot of talent,,,sorry if I missed you)
Yes, I like having the opportunity to get all this for free. (BTW I have at one time or another donated to almost everyone I mentioned above. If i use your stuff and like it I pay for it) Giving the source code to these people and contracting them to build freely (freedom is the key to the builds) would benefit everyone I think. I would pay $10 for a rom, $5 for a cool theme, and $2or $3 for a cool mod.Doesnt sound like much, but the quantity of those out there doing it would generate a sizeable amount of money. In fact I am sure that there are people with the means to request a complete custom setup for the right price, and you know that to have a truly one of a kind set up with custom icons coloring and such people would pay for it. And if these were available in a controlled setting that johnny homeowner could do safely, or have done at a store, the possibilities are limitless.
I can understand the potential liability of people flashing their phones, and bricking, but I'm sure that problem could be somehow solved (to a point there are always stupid people out there).
Ideas? Thoughts? Rants?,,,
I am now officially off my sopabox, let the hating begin,,,,,
Let me tell you why, because people who works at sansumg...for them its a job. On the other hand for the devs here, its a passion or hobbit. When is the last time you see someone going to their office and enjoys their work? So they dont work as fast or even.slacks off here and there. Not many right? Also. The dev here can get away with posting rom that bricks because they usually have a disclaimure reliefing them of responsibilities, samsung doesnt get that with tmobile or the public thus it takes them longer to make sure everything works, and because of that they cant try more radical approches like those being incorporated into the roms here. Monetary support is also a factor, supporting an old phone doesnt make you money, unless you charge for firmware update like apple used to.
Like any other big business there are many different players with many different desires. That's the game of politics... They have to take into account the liability they could take on by using something that could cost them too much money....
That being said...I completely agree with you! They need to take on the talent that the world has to offer. Android is Open Source for a reason...to allow for everyone to throw their ideas at it. Google has given everyone the opportunity to show what they can do. I appreciate the Devs we have here on XDA. If anything I would like to thank all the hard working Devs & XDA for giving us a centralized place to access all the riches the world has to offer.
PaiPiePia said:
The dev here can get away with posting rom that bricks because they usually have a disclaimure reliefing them of responsibilities, samsung doesnt get that with tmobile or the public thus it takes them longer to make sure everything works, and because of that they cant try more radical approches like those being incorporated into the roms here.
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This is exactly the reason. Let's not pretend that everything the devs do here is perfect. It's not.
PaiPiePia said:
The dev here can get away with posting rom that bricks because they usually have a disclaimure reliefing them of responsibilities
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Hang on there PeePants. These devs are GIVING their work away! They do their best to beta release them first! And there is almost NO SUCH THING AS "A ROM THAT BRICKS YOUR PHONE" since it is so easy to Odin back.
pdefazio said:
This is exactly the reason. Let's not pretend that everything the devs do here is perfect. It's not.
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Nor do you have any right to demand perfection. Maybe that's why they call it 'Development'!!!
The devs on here for the most part do it as a hobby. The amount of work whether it be hours or days, that goes into some of these roms ANNDDDD(for emphasis) the UPDATTTEESSS, we as a consumer would say eff that I can't afford this anymore.
Big business is in the market of making money with as little effort or cost as possible. Hardware is cheap, easy and linear so they grab the consumers attention by advertising this amazing machine's specs. The "average consumer guy" just sees blinking lights and "I am a man because of my awesome phone specs" stuff and buys it no questions asked. Out of 50 customers I can only assume 1 might come in and ask which version of Android is running on their phone.
We are a small SMALL % of their market so why would they bring in these amazing teams to update and develop if they can pay someone to get as little as possible on the table to satisfy the average consumer.
You want to share with the world? Get a 3rd party license to develop with T-Mobile and/or Samsung, which btw will cost you Millions, then hire on these guys and sell their "labor"(since Android is open source). Once all that is done, tell me how you plan to turn a profit at $5-10 or even $20 a ROM. Again, once contracted the devs will be charging for updates(labor) as well.
No flaming needed here, actually a good conversation.
Yes, they are ignoring talent, but companies don't give a **** about anything until it starts impacting their bottom line.
I've always been a firm of believer of "vote with your money." This is the first Samsung smart phone I've ever bought and every month that passes with Samsung ignoring the GPS issue cements my thought that it will also be the last.
We can lament all we want, but if next year you go and buy another Samsung phone/product, you're doing nothing to change things.
No.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but no dev that doesn't work with samsung can't.
The devs here are strictily MODIFIERS.
samsung is.the.creator.
Without them we have nothing.
They leak out kernels, and our devs modify to make it faster and stable.
NO dev here can make drivers for your phone.NO DEV can make kernels without using something from samsung.
I understand why u all hate samsung but be thankful their atleast giving leaks.
Also I agree with the guy above the devs here have an excuse , "u didn't read the disclaimer"
Also there have been plenty of roms that brick users.
hellcatrydr said:
Hang on there PeePants. These devs are GIVING their work away! They do their best to beta release them first! And there is almost NO SUCH THING AS "A ROM THAT BRICKS YOUR PHONE" since it is so easy to Odin back.
Nor do you have any right to demand perfection. Maybe that's why they call it 'Development'!!!
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Obviously you can't hold a proper, intelligent and civil conversation without resorting to name calling and fanboy attitude. This is the second time you called me pee pants for no reason, you sir are going on my ignore list.
blizzard1017 said:
The devs on here for the most part do it as a hobby. The amount of work whether it be hours or days, that goes into some of these roms ANNDDDD(for emphasis) the UPDATTTEESSS, we as a consumer would say eff that I can't afford this anymore.
Big business is in the market of making money with as little effort or cost as possible. Hardware is cheap, easy and linear so they grab the consumers attention by advertising this amazing machine's specs. The "average consumer guy" just sees blinking lights and "I am a man because of my awesome phone specs" stuff and buys it no questions asked. Out of 50 customers I can only assume 1 might come in and ask which version of Android is running on their phone.
We are a small SMALL % of their market so why would they bring in these amazing teams to update and develop if they can pay someone to get as little as possible on the table to satisfy the average consumer.
You want to share with the world? Get a 3rd party license to develop with T-Mobile and/or Samsung, which btw will cost you Millions, then hire on these guys and sell their "labor"(since Android is open source). Once all that is done, tell me how you plan to turn a profit at $5-10 or even $20 a ROM. Again, once contracted the devs will be charging for updates(labor) as well.
No flaming needed here, actually a good conversation.
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Learn from this guy, he saw the situation from the same point of view as me, and he expanded on it rather than flaming.
Thread Locked
It's really so disappointing to see the reception given to SamsungJohn here in XDA. I know many of you are angry about the Froyo delays, but *****ing out the social media liasson won't accomplish anything.
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
And I think people need to stop with the notion that Samsung is evil or just wants to hurt users. They're a huge company; it may not have even been on the radar of the decisionmakers that we were dissatisfied.
We're in a fairly recent and novel paradigm where users expect timely software updates--a year and a half ago nobody expected that. You bought a phone and maybe there might be a firmware update somewhere down the road. And out of the millions of people who bought SGS phones, we're just a very small minority. If we want cooperation from Samsung we need to impress upon them the advantages of collaborating with devs, because honestly they're going to make billions either way. If we demonstrate that cooperation will involve crass tantrums, they'll just sell their phones to the millions of people who don't give a crap about independent development. Do we really want that kind of belligerent attitude a la Motorola? I don't know about you, but I'd rather we try to move Samsung towards us rather than away from us.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Samsung is trying to help us and we are biting our noses off just to spite our face. I think they are doing a great thing by coming on here.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Agreed...well said...both of you.
I agree that was pretty messed up. It's bad enough all the devs have been scrared away. Ex-da isn't what it used to.
I totally agree. The guy is not a decision maker at Samsung - he came here to try to get feedback about how the company can improve and people just flamed the guy relentlessly. Further proof that there are too many children and buffoons here. It's no wonder that devs loathe coming here. FYI to the guys that tore into SamsungJohn - Krylon had a good conversation with Sammy and they are looking to get in contact with Sombionix as well.
What's not on their radar with a 90% surety is timely software updates. Hardware companies are going to drag their feet as much as possible to provide software upgrades for old hardware, if they do it at all.
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm totally sympathetic to the people who are fed up and say #neveragain. But the solution to that is to complain through other channels and then never buy Samsung again.
This rep came here reaching his hand out to the dev community, and insulting him or whining does a serious disservice to everyone else here. I think he came here to try to create a mutually beneficial relationship, not take complaint tickets. Many of us are skeptical, but we think it's worth seeing if anything can come of this (and if you aren't, the actual devs are).
BorisZX6R said:
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I was one of those that got beholded they flat out lied on that one. Here I am again with the vibrant guessing thats samsung mo to screw ya
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Oh yea, before the flaming closet dwellers start in....
i.e.
" Hi, I'm John, I work for Samsung, and they have given me the job position of liason with the public.
Now before I go any further, please understand that I am under corporate restraints and NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) so that I can only give so much info and so much data. I do not know yet if they will allow me to give access to unreleased software.
So, within those restraints I will do my best to provide what I can.
Yes, I know a great many of you are upset with Samsung and that is why I am here.
Please go easy on me as I do not own or control the company"
Now, would that really have been so very tough of an introduction ?
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
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It's one thing to remain skeptical towards the guy and his motives but its completely another to flat out accuse him of lying and subterfuge merely because he may have omitted the exact words you need to hear or he wasn't nice enough, etc. It seems fairly obvious to me that if ANY large company was to hold a Q&A session on specifics of perceived missteps, they would choose a much more public forum - not a niche community of developers. On the other hand, if they wanted to incorporate new features or contract out some good developers, they are in the right place.
I don't doubt they (samsung) aren't doing this out of the goodness of their collective hearts, but if this is how changes are effected, I'll take it.
Totally agree with you Kubernetes, people think they'll get something done by impressing their rage upon the messenger. So far all of his threads are closed due to people completely ignoring the instructions and asking for release dates and trolling samsung saying they're gonna tell all their friends to never buy samsung, it's really disgusting if you ask me. I dunno about you guys but I'm the only person I know who cares if samsung releases timely updates...everyone else I know is NOT a power user and could not care less about updates. I think if outsiders say, higher ups in Samsung, were to read those threads they'd see more hostility and uncooperativeness
than a community that's ready to work with them.
Main reason I dislike all the people flaming him is because as soon as I try to ask a legit question, the thread is already locked. Trolls are blaring out people who want to handle this like adults.
Please don't try to put words in my mouth unless you intend to become my wife. I'm a dominating top so consider the job well before volunteering.
At no point did I say that John was lying, yet you say very directly that I did.
Exactly whom is the lier ?
Well honestly the way he was treated was bad, but again that is the way Samsung has treated us from the beginning, but I do have to say something about this section (vibrant) As a whole we fight with each other too much. Just take a look at the 2.2.1 rom release in the development section. It just one big ***** fest, and it is stupid. We need to focus on fixing and making our phones better not our EGO's. If we as a community can't get our collective a$$ together we will just fade away and kill our developer support. There is too much drama. One group doesn't want to work with another so on so forth. If we pooled our collective resources then we could be great.
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
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Click to collapse
It Is damage control, but that said, they are (cause they recognize not to do so is suicide) reaching out, but the teaser is just a tactic to buy more time.
I am in the corporate world and I am Senior Exec, So this is just normal proceedings from a business to engage - delay and then reveal what they really are going to offer. That tactic is done cause it lowers expectations so if it is not enough you do not end up with a mass rebellion on your hands. Samsung John is a Big Boy, he knows the rules and expects to hear both happy and hostile comments and takes them like a grain of salt. So there is nothing for us to be ashamed of, he asked for our opinion and comments and we gave them to him.... the good, the bad and the ugly
One other note SamsungJohn released the exact same email in every Galaxy forum, so do not be wooed into thinking he was talking directly to us. It was can statement and a canned response/followup.
This might be his big announcement
I have been a user here four about 2 months and have never posted because I know how to search and I don't want to deal with the egos and the flaming, but this was posted on another forum (has nothing to do with phones) that I use.
"I talked with someone in STA (the division of the company that focuses on mobile devices), no plans at least in the immediate future are int he works for OTA updates on the Galaxy S 3G lineup. Which has me pissed. (edit: by "immediate future" I mean we're looking at like March for the mandatory OTA update, which leads me to think this hardwire update is just a beta)
Even as an employee, I can guarantee this is going to be my last Samsung phone. I STILL don't have Froyo because of all the hoops I had to go through in addition to running errands today.
Why you're forced to use a completely different connection mode, when virtually every other phone on the market can update either OTA or with a standard USB mount point, then Kies refused to connect until I turned on USB debugging, turned off USB debugging, and restarted Kies.
Now? With 88% battery life, I need to let it charge to 100% just to even start downloading the update."
Idid not include a link since it is private forum and the guy has a job he would probably like to keep. This was posted last month when the Kies update came out.
With that said it would still be nice to work with samsung, what may come from it might not be the holy grail, but at least something may come from it.
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
Kubernetes said:
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
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that. right. there.
Mannymal said:
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
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Jesus that's myopic. Samsung doesn't need anything from us, we're just a tiny minority of people who have bought their phones. They clearly think there's something to be gained from forming relationships with devs, which is why SamsungJohn is here and not Android Central or a more consumer oriented site.
You want source? Great, I'm sure that's what Krylon and Supercurio are telling them. Like adults. And I'm sure they're also explaining how timely source release can benefit Samsung as well, instead of demanding it or crying about how we're owed better support.
Because in the end, he doesn't have to be here and Samsung doesn't have to do jack about helping XDA because they'll still sell a ****-ton of phones regardless. If you can't understand that there are things we want from Samsung and it's not "appeasement" to try to get them, I have no words for you. It's not like we're holding all the cards and some horrible fate will befall Samsung if they decide this is too much of a headache.
Guys, please behave yourself and be polite toward the developers. They don't owe you anything and they are working left and right to make our phones better. Don't act like they intentionally go around and break any particular functions on your phones. If you feel like those functions are important to you, stick with stock ROM and STFU. Custom ROMs are not for you.
Comments should be used for feedback only, not to make any request or demanding any answers why x,y,z do not work on your phones. DO NOT pestering the developers over PM or emails. The people doing that kind of things are no better than scums. I have seen too many good developers left the scene and it's quite disheartening.
Just some reminder to make our community better.
P.S. No I am not the admin, just an angry xda member.
Thanks for this,
I know most people respect what devs try to do.
However it is the small minority that spoiled it the other day.
In my frustration I threw my Play against a wall and have smashed the screen.
I cannot afford to pay the £45 to get it fixed which is why I cannot continue to create ROMs
If some generous people out there would care to make some contributions to help me get it fixed I will definately continue development on MIUI the play..
Sorry to sound like a beggar but I just can't afford it
pricey2009 said:
Thanks for this,
I know most people respect what devs try to do.
However it is the small minority that spoiled it the other day.
In my frustration I threw my Play against a wall and have smashed the screen.
I cannot afford to pay the £45 to get it fixed which is why I cannot continue to create ROMs
If some generous people out there would care to make some contributions to help me get it fixed I will definately continue development on MIUI the play..
Sorry to sound like a beggar but I just can't afford it
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Well the small minority are just noobs they cannot do this themselves because they are clueless. If they want something they should be trying to support you not nag you. But Pricey I can't Donate I have no Paypal . And dude this should be in the "General" section of the forum!
I know this is going to come off meanly, and I don't mean it that way, but seriously? So you let people tick you off so bad, you threw your phone against the wall and broke it... No wonder you're called Pricey.
I support development, but not stupidity, sorry. You'd be better off looking for donations for Anger Management counselling.
This is going to sound mean as well, but why should people donate if you broke the phone by something physical (chucking it at wall, which is obviously going to break it). If you had maybe bricked it (or something like that) while doing something to help the community, then people would be more likely to donate...
I didn't mean to say everyone has to pay for what I did.. just asked for a bit help that was all.
I'm just saying I cannot afford to pay to fix the phone which in turn would of meant my continued development and help to everyone in the community.
It wasn't just because of my frustration of what I was sent and demanded for, I have a house full of kids and a wife that drive me up the wall as well.
Sechko has kindly donated £5 (thanks buddy) towards the screen, I can put £10 myself so I just need a further £30 and that will be it.
I do want to continue as I have worked so hard on the Sony Beta version of MIUI it would of been a waste otherwise.
There are reasons why long term developers are so highly regarded. Not only do they possess the hard skills (code analysis, debugging, maths to make sense of all that), but they have soft skills like PR management, good team work abilities and the ability to see that the continuity of a project implies a personal investment, which will have a yield in the end.
Some long, peaceful breathing seems to be in order here. And after that, it's time for all of you to evaluate exactly that. Does whatever project you were involved in contribute to your personal growth? Pricey decided that it wasn't, and so he stopped.
Our role as a community is to ensure that developers can feel at ease to do what they like to do. As such, the community failed pricey. But then again, pricey can learn lessons from this. Both for his presence here, and for his real life.
XPlay-Swype
Logseman said:
There are reasons why long term developers are so highly regarded. Not only do they possess the hard skills (code analysis, debugging, maths to make sense of all that), but they have soft skills like PR management, good team work abilities and the ability to see that the continuity of a project implies a personal investment, which will have a yield in the end.
Some long, peaceful breathing seems to be in order here. And after that, it's time for all of you to evaluate exactly that. Does whatever project you were involved in contribute to your personal growth? Pricey decided that it wasn't, and so he stopped.
Our role as a community is to ensure that developers can feel at ease to do what they like to do. As such, the community failed pricey. But then again, pricey can learn lessons from this. Both for his presence here, and for his real life.
XPlay-Swype
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The way I see it, the Xperia play is already a strong device able to play ShadowGun with 30-60 FPS
If it's already powerful what do we need to keep modding it for?
The only mods that make sense now are hardware ones. and that is the new direction I'm headed
Mainly because I want my Xperia to pickup better signal while I'm out around and exploring new citys.
Since I've got my Xperia Play it's been on stock. No unlocked bootloader and not even rooted.
I like to keep it simple
Hogwarts said:
The way I see it, the Xperia play is already a strong device able to play ShadowGun with 30-60 FPS
If it's already powerful what do we need to keep modding it for?
The only mods that make sense now are hardware ones. and that is the new direction I'm headed
Mainly because I want my Xperia to pickup better signal while I'm out around and exploring new citys.
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Why do we need to keep modding it? Dude, that's not really the perspective I expect from a developer. I think to summarize the general collective attitude of Android devolopers, I would have to say that the reason we keep modding any Android device is because we all want our phones to do everything. While we know it isn't possible for our phones to do everything, we want to push it as close as we can. Whether that involves tweaking the UI, the system, or hardware, we modify our phones because we can. As Android users, we don't have to settle for what our manufacturers or carriers provide us with. We can make our phones what we want them to be, and more!
That, sir, is why phones continue to be modded and supported by the development community, even far past their carrier end-of-life dates.
Calling hogwarts a developer might be a bit strong - He uninstalled bloat, installed V6, called it a ROM, promptly stopped updating, and disassembled his Play.
Re: OP, some devs actively irritate me. The aforementioned, our destructive little friend who posted earlier, and whichever member of FXP has a blood pact against the r800x... And yet, some devs here are amazing. Chevy's remarkably effective and problem-free conversions, Keiran's ridiculous productivity for all versions of our phone, despite lacking resources that other devs require prior to even trying to develop... And FXP, for all the work they've done, even if some comments do annoy me.
Tl;dr, devs are not sacred shamans and I don't mind calling them out for bull****, especially when said bull**** isn't impeding the dude ten years my junior who also has school to contend with.
Sent from my R800x using xda premium
While I do agree with you, for the most part, the fact still remains that there are some really ungrateful... people around here that do nothing but complain, nag, and demand things be given to them as soon as their post is made. While it is true that some developers aren't as awesome as others, they all do deserve to be treated with the same respect as everyone else. More than that should definitely be earned, of course.
The short of it? The Golden Rule, people. That shouldn't need to be posted, but alas, such is the world we live in.
Sent from my R800x using XDA
I'd donate just because of the wife and kids driving you up the wall. I only have 22p in PayPal though. It's yours if you want it.
Sent from my R800i using XDA
Trygon said:
Calling hogwarts a developer might be a bit strong - He uninstalled bloat, installed V6, called it a ROM, promptly stopped updating, and disassembled his Play.
Re: OP, some devs actively irritate me. The aforementioned, our destructive little friend who posted earlier, and whichever member of FXP has a blood pact against the r800x... And yet, some devs here are amazing. Chevy's remarkably effective and problem-free conversions, Keiran's ridiculous productivity for all versions of our phone, despite lacking resources that other devs require prior to even trying to develop... And FXP, for all the work they've done, even if some comments do annoy me.
Tl;dr, devs are not sacred shamans and I don't mind calling them out for bull****, especially when said bull**** isn't impeding the dude ten years my junior who also has school to contend with.
Sent from my R800x using xda premium
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Remember that, while Keiran is a free agent (and an awesome guy btw), FXP is a team with certain rules and guidelines, which give them an edge over free agents that they need to keep. FXP hasn't touched the bootloaders of the 2011 Xperia line, and their support for devices which "shouldn't" ever have been unlocked, like the R800x, is not officially endorsed. That's the price they pay for, e.g, getting phones and source code directly from Sony as they did last year.
BTW, FXP has another teen in the group, namely Blagus. He was busy already with the older Xperias... it's hard to wrap your head around the concept of a 14 yo kid that can tear apart a phone's sotware just like that
Logseman said:
Remember that, while Keiran is a free agent (and an awesome guy btw), FXP is a team with certain rules and guidelines, which give them an edge over free agents that they need to keep. FXP hasn't touched the bootloaders of the 2011 Xperia line, and their support for devices which "shouldn't" ever have been unlocked, like the R800x, is not officially endorsed. That's the price they pay for, e.g, getting phones and source code directly from Sony as they did last year.
BTW, FXP has another teen in the group, namely Blagus. He was busy already with the older Xperias... it's hard to wrap your head around the concept of a 14 yo kid that can tear apart a phone's sotware just like that
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No joke, right? I consider myself smarter then the average bear, but some people on this forum make me feel like a drooling neanderthal.
As far as FXP's rules go, this is the first mention of them I've heard, and they keep teasing that r800x support will come 'eventually'.
Trygon said:
No joke, right? I consider myself smarter then the average bear, but some people on this forum make me feel like a drooling neanderthal.
As far as FXP's rules go, this is the first mention of them I've heard, and they keep teasing that r800x support will come 'eventually'.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15253598&postcount=217
This was FXP's stance in July 2011, and I haven't read anything reversing it.
Logseman said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15253598&postcount=217
This was FXP's stance in July 2011, and I haven't read anything reversing it.
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While their morals are in the right place, I can't say that I agree with their decision. I mean, look at all of the other manufacturers that are starting to lock down their bootloaders. Motorola is a big one, but HTC is another one that comes to mind. Sure, HTC posts unlocks, but most of the time, the community has already broken their bootloaders open by the time HTC gets around to it. When we tell Sony, "okay, we'll play by your rules," what we're telling them is that we're going to go ahead and take this stuff lying down. What happens next? We own these devices, and the argument of pretty much the whole development community is that since we own our devices, we should be able to do what we want, even if we end up bricking them. Go ahead and void my warranty, I did that to myself, anyway. That's what insurance is for.
There was a time that Sony was unlocking bootloaders on the R800x. It didn't last long, and I missed the ship on that one, but the reason they took it down wasn't because of an SE decision. Verizon, the only CDMA carrier that officially carries the Xperia Play, didn't want their users unlocking their bootloaders and rooting, which was the only way to root at the time, because they wanted their users to keep their bloatware on the devices. So it's not Sony that we're fighting on the unlocked bootloader issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Alejandrissimo's method, using SETool, made available by Sony? Regardless if that's the case or not, Verizon is who we're having to fight for our freedom, not Sony.
Logseman said:
Remember that, while Keiran is a free agent (and an awesome guy btw), FXP is a team with certain rules and guidelines, which give them an edge over free agents that they need to keep. FXP hasn't touched the bootloaders of the 2011 Xperia line, and their support for devices which "shouldn't" ever have been unlocked, like the R800x, is not officially endorsed. That's the price they pay for, e.g, getting phones and source code directly from Sony as they did last year.
BTW, FXP has another teen in the group, namely Blagus. He was busy already with the older Xperias... it's hard to wrap your head around the concept of a 14 yo kid that can tear apart a phone's sotware just like that
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No offense but how does age matter if the developer is talented ? And you know what, I think the type of people that tend to annoy developers on this forum are the R800x owner. If you buy a locked down device from a ****ty wireless carrier like Verizon, it's your own damn fault. The developers didn't put a gun on your heads to ask you to buy them. If you can't unlock the bootloaders or flash your favorite ROM, it would be nicer to ask the developers nicely to develop another version for your phone. If he refuses then move on, learn from your mistakes and never buy another phones/sign the contract with Verizon. You have no one to blame but your own stupidity.
If you can't flash your damn ROM, it's not the end of the world, go do something else rather than sitting here whining to us and to the developers about it. If I am one of the developers, I will probably even give you guys the middle finger every time you guys say something rude to me. The developers don't owe you guys anything period so learn to behave. After all, it's only a phone, not your baby, etc... Stop making a big deal out of nothing and ruin the community. Next time, stop being cheap and buy an unlocked phone if you want to use xda and we can talk.
RandomXIII said:
No offense but how does age matter if the developer is talented ? And you know what, I think the type of people that tend to annoy developers on this forum are the R800x owner. If you buy a locked down device from a ****ty wireless carrier like Verizon, it's your own damn fault. The developers didn't put a gun on your heads to ask you to buy them. If you can't unlock the bootloaders or flash your favorite ROM, it would be nicer to ask the developers nicely to develop another version for your phone. If he refuses then move on, learn from your mistakes and never buy another phones/sign the contract with Verizon. You have no one to blame but your own stupidity.
If you can't flash your damn ROM, it's not the end of the world, go do something else rather than sitting here whining to us and to the developers about it. If I am one of the developers, I will probably even give you guys the middle finger every time you guys say something rude to me. The developers don't owe you guys anything period so learn to behave. After all, it's only a phone, not your baby, etc... Stop making a big deal out of nothing and ruin the community. Next time, stop being cheap and buy an unlocked phone if you want to use xda and we can talk.
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Dude, you've gone off on this one. I originally agreed with you, but seriously. I'm not just saying this because I have an R800x, but there are stupid noobs with every kind of phone there is. You can't just say, "oh, I see these guys don't like being singled out, so they must be complaining." Last I checked, there are a whole lot less of us R800x users here, and even fewer that actually complain about the roms that exist. Yes, we'll ask if they're compatible with our phones, but that's simply because of the difference within the devices themselves, despite the fact that they have the same name.
As for using a phone on a particular carrier, I'm going to have to guess that you don't live in America, you don't have your own plan, or both. Here in the states, we generally have to pick what carrier actually has service in our area, very much so in the rural areas. That being the case, if I were to go with AT&T or T-Mobile, I wouldn't be able to get signal where I live. My only options, given that, would be to go ahead and use Verizon, or use the smaller providers, or use prepaid. I've been on Verizon since before they even had feature phones, and at the time, the only prepaid service available here was TracFone. I'm not saying anything bad about TracFone, they were pretty good for the first year or two that I actually owned a cell phone. I made the switch to Verizon, and despite all of the complaints I've heard and read, I've never had a bit of trouble with Big Red. As such, I've stuck with the company I've always used. Heck, even on my previous smartphones, the CDMA bit didn't cause any problem with development.
And then I got an Xperia Play. The only problem I have with this phone is the fact that the R800x has been treated (to borrow a phrase) as the "red-headed stepchild" as compared to the other models of the R800 line. May I just say now that I didn't get the Xperia Play to hack my phone. I got the phone because I'm a gamer, and the game pad gave the phone much more appeal than the other available phones. But since I like to mess with phones, as I had on my previous ones, I decided to jump right in to the scene, as I had before.
Now, I've followed all of the recommended routes with this phone. I've paid to have the bootloader unlocked, read up on the things I need to know to manipulate this phone, and have tried to help other users in figuring out their phones. I'm not going to say I've contributed anything, really, because I call it just being a helpful person. Heck, I've even clicked the "Thanks" button a few times! While I can't say that all of the R800x users have followed the same path as I have, I can say that given the seclusion that we CDMA users have faced hasn't gotten the core of us down. In fact, as an example, chevyowner was single-handedly modifying the CM9 roms to work for us CDMA users, making the data and such work just as flawlessly as it does for GSM users. When he said he got a new phone and wouldn't be able to "port" it anymore, at least three members immediately stood up to take his place. If that's not a community coming together, I don't know what is.
Oh, and as for calling out the R800x noobs, take a look in the Q&A sections, the GSM threads, and heck, take a look at the thread that started this all, the MIUI thread. I see far more GSM members complaining, moaning, and bugging the devs than I do CDMA users. So before you single out a small group that has already been secluded time and time again, take a look at the bigger picture.
One more thing. People who can only get reliable CDMA signal in their area can't simply "stop being cheap and buy an unlocked phone." Your special unlocked GSM phones won't work on our network. Now before you say I'm complaining, I'm not. It's my choice to stay on Verizon's network, and truth be told, I don't mind having to look a little harder to mod the phones that I have available to me. I just happened to choose this one. It's not the limited support for the R800x that bugs me, it's elitists like you that think others should conform to your standards.
Hogwarts said:
If it's already powerful what do we need to keep modding it for?
The only mods that make sense now are hardware ones. and that is the new direction I'm headed
Mainly because I want my Xperia to pickup better signal while I'm out around and exploring new citys.
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I'm just a user myself, but XDA is primarily a development site, not a user support site, people are here for the modding. Most people seems to forget this which is also why there are lots of trolls.
Anyway, to answer your question, I like my Android like my linux, not like iOS. Besides flashing radios can improve signal and other software factors has effects too.
In the beginning I would like to present you my device and experience with Huawei, I am a smartphone geek and I had many devices in my life, and the most sentimental hate I have about is Huawei, I bought my favorite Honor 7, 2-3 months after it was released, Huawei was something new for me because in those days the "flagship" Hisilicon kirin 935 in 2015-16 was cool and new, not to mention fast charging, ar blaster (remote control), 20 Mpix camera with HDR and slow-motion recording at 60fps, revolutionary thermal construction, "Hey Honor" head control, audio + Hi-Fi, several annual updates of new functions and Android from version 5.0-6.0 until ... until the moment Huawei shoves its "sales system" of new devices, in previous device brands in which I sat I had an impression that my device is "on time" but in Huawei is quite the opposite and here it gets worse. Users of Honor 7 know that the last update of Honor 7 was in November 2017. (version B396). In brief, I will tell you one thing: Huawei gives a fu** about us, even if Ren Zhengfei is reading this, let him understand that we are awake. Every device that you release and is supported until the end of "materialistic" two years, put our Honors in the trash can which means that since the last update the device gets, youre phone starts to get boring and older which brings you to buy a new Huawei, but wait a minute, I just bought my honor 2 years ago and it's not good anymore? Naturally, we look at the internet why we do not get new upgrades where everything becomes clear the processors produced for Huawei are specially designed to work only for two years! Then Huawei tells us that you need a better version of Open Gl / CL and that the new EMUI will not go ble ble ble. And then we understand such a device with pseudo-strong peripherals it loses support after two years and spending hunderds of $ isnt worth it. So the question to Huawei is why you are making the same mistakes, why you are blocking the bootloader, and why EMUI is so limited, after all EMUI can compete with MIUI or Samsung Experience, just open up for people, update our devices more often so that they do not retire at the age of 2 years. It's all artificial. For now it is the silence before the storm because I hope that people who have reached to the end of this message will understand that people who purchased Honor 7,8,9,10 will be disappointed and how they will be treated after the warranty period and the end of Android support, where unfortunately the company counts money and not users.
Honor/ Huawei are only good for hardware, the software experience is not that good, plus their partnership with XDA was just a publicity stunt, I had thought that there would be more development for the Honor devices but it's just false promises, I would have never purchased Honor 8 if I knew that there won't be any ROM development for the device
LMFAO. Wow. You posted a whining session. Good for you. Hate to break it to you but Huawei is no different than any other company. Samsung, Apple, Sony. All the same. How about you go build your own smartphone so you can find something else to complain about. Claiming that Huawei specifically design their phones to only last two years. Are you daft?! Here's a little secret for you bud, the head of honor USA (his name's Chris) has been getting all kinds of responses from customers regarding the bootloader issue, but you wouldn't know that since you are so high up on your horse. So while you might think Huawei is some evil corporation designing a grand scheme to screw people, you couldn't be farther from the truth. People like you are exactly the reason XDA has gone downhill and it's sad.
agraceful said:
LMFAO. Wow. You posted a whining session. Good for you. Hate to break it to you but Huawei is no different than any other company. Samsung, Apple, Sony. All the same. How about you go build your own smartphone so you can find something else to complain about. Claiming that Huawei specifically design their phones to only last two years. Are you daft?! Here's a little secret for you bud, the head of honor USA (his name's Chris) has been getting all kinds of responses from customers regarding the bootloader issue, but you wouldn't know that since you are so high up on your horse. So while you might think Huawei is some evil corporation designing a grand scheme to screw people, you couldn't be farther from the truth. People like you are exactly the reason XDA has gone downhill and it's sad.
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I agree with you on this, everyone on xda whines but no one does anything about it. It is an open community and anyone can make a custom rom. It doesn't take much to make an aosp rom or even a custom EMUI rom. I just don't do it because people on here piss me off. They then go on a rant session like this like we owe them something. The community has lost respect for devs we make roms and they make us look like we own the software. They request things like I am free to do what you want me to do? NO I do it out of my own time that I have spare for everyone. But when I hear people get all cry baby mode and request stuff like they want it now it disheartens me from deving at all. This is why there is no development I just make my own rom the way I like it. At least I know no one will complain and moan after.
Meemo23 said:
This is why there is no development I just make my own rom the way I like it. At least I know no one will complain and moan after.
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I guess there is the option to ignore all the nonsense posts, upload your rom with no support and let people decide.
Either that or perhaps share your build scripts with those of us with some knowledge of oneplus and xperia builds, so we can build our own honor rom too
No demands intended, just trying to blag some build scripts
That's because devs aren't transparent with the users. When you just pop up with some software, of course, the users will think it's easy and takes no time. Developers are pretentious and users are ignorant. Users would have less to whine about if they actually understood what was going on half the time...That's why everyone got all this tech, but no one understands how to use it and just revert to complaining. It's only gonna get worst for devs/users down the line.
But shid, where a guide to make a custom EMUI rom? I'll make a rom for the culture.
jintrigger said:
That's because devs aren't transparent with the users. When you just pop up with some software, of course, the users will think it's easy and takes no time. Developers are pretentious and users are ignorant. Users would have less to whine about if they actually understood what was going on half the time...That's why everyone got all this tech, but no one understands how to use it and just revert to complaining. It's only gonna get worst for devs/users down the line.
But shid, where a guide to make a custom EMUI rom? I'll make a rom for the culture.
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Learning to build a ROM isn't difficult. There are literally hundreds of courses you can take, but instead 99% of users are lazy and don't care to learn. Most developers AREN'T pretentious. They simply aren't required to teach others about what they do and how they do it. That's on the user.
agraceful said:
Learning to build a ROM isn't difficult. There are literally hundreds of courses you can take, but instead 99% of users are lazy and don't care to learn. Most developers AREN'T pretentious. They simply aren't required to teach others about what they do and how they do it. That's on the user.
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How can you tell an average user that creating a rom isn't difficult? How can you determine how difficult something is to someone else? You just proved my point (considering you are a dev).....Cause that's pretentious. Sure you may be right...It's not my job as a developer to teach others how/what I do, but because development is treated as some easy to do thing we are here.
Once you understand something it's easier to appreciate it...User don't understand and if we keep giving them stuff with them understanding what they are getting you created spoiled users. I'm not saying go teach every user what a dev does, but transparency is important.
jintrigger said:
How can you tell an average user that creating a rom isn't difficult? How can you determine how difficult something is to someone else? You just proved my point (considering you are a dev).....Cause that's pretentious. Sure you may be right...It's not my job as a developer to teach others how/what I do, but because development is treated as some easy to do thing we are here.
Once you understand something it's easier to appreciate it...User don't understand and if we keep giving them stuff with them understanding what they are getting you created spoiled users. I'm not saying go teach every user what a dev does, but transparency is important.
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I say it's simple because my 11 year old can code. Learning is easy if you put in the effort. I myself, have been developing on Android since the Motorola Cliq. So, a little over 9 years. I've directed tons of people (even a few here on XDA) how to go about coding and each is now doing it on their own. It's not pretentious (that's not the right word anyway) to conclude that ANYONE can learn with dedication and time. So, say I build a ROM then go into details about what I've done. Who does that benefit if 96% of users have no clue? So then I have to go in depth and explain what's going on. That's a waste of my time which I donate. I don't get paid to work on Android. It's all for fun. When it becomes work, I stop. There is an amazing website called GitHub where most devs upload their work and you can see what they're doing. If there's something you don't understand, then you ask. You can not expect anyone to give you anything. Like I said, ANYONE can build a ROM. I thoroughly encourage you to dive into ROM building of that peaks your interest. Sadly, majority of users don't care to understand. They just want free things and immediately.
agraceful said:
I say it's simple because my 11 year old can code. Learning is easy if you put in the effort. I myself, have been developing on Android since the Motorola Cliq. So, a little over 9 years. I've directed tons of people (even a few here on XDA) how to go about coding and each is now doing it on their own. It's not pretentious (that's not the right word anyway) to conclude that ANYONE can learn with dedication and time. So, say I build a ROM then go into details about what I've done. Who does that benefit if 96% of users have no clue? So then I have to go in depth and explain what's going on. That's a waste of my time which I donate. I don't get paid to work on Android. It's all for fun. When it becomes work, I stop. There is an amazing website called GitHub where most devs upload their work and you can see what they're doing. If there's something you don't understand, then you ask. You can not expect anyone to give you anything. Like I said, ANYONE can build a ROM. I thoroughly encourage you to dive into ROM building of that peaks your interest. Sadly, majority of users don't care to understand. They just want free things and immediately.
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Transparency seems to work well enough with game developers. Like I said, seeing how something is made helps you appreciate it more. That doesn't mean a user needs to learn how to make a custom rom to appreciate the process, but we can agree to disagree on that note.
However, just because your 11 year old can develop (while awesome) doesn't make coding simple. I honestly hate when people make it seem like being a developer is just a simple and easy thing. Only a hobbyist or someone who lacks passion would make that claim. I mean I know kids who can write stories, but does that mean being an author is easy? I know kids who can draw well, but does that make being an artist easy?
jintrigger said:
Transparency seems to work well enough with game developers. Like I said, seeing how something is made helps you appreciate it more. That doesn't mean a user needs to learn how to make a custom rom to appreciate the process, but we can agree to disagree on that note.
However, just because your 11 year old can develop (while awesome) doesn't make coding simple. I honestly hate when people make it seem like being a developer is just a simple and easy thing. Only a hobbyist or someone who lacks passion would make that claim. I mean I know kids who can write stories, but does that mean being an author is easy? I know kids who can draw well, but does that make being an artist easy?
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Actually, it does. Writing a book means you're an author. Singing a song makes you a singer. These titles are often held to such a high standard that it makes no sense. If I draw a picture, I am an artist. I don't need a degree or even to have gone to an art school. Being a developer is easy. Those who view it otherwise are the ones that doubt themselves and aren't able to set realistic goals. Or again, they hold the titles to a ridiculous standard. XDA has offered courses for coding, and those are by far the simplest. Nothing is unattainable unless you yourself put that doubt in your mind.
Earlier, I wasn't stating that users need to learn to build ROMs to understand what's going on, so my apologies if it appeared that way. But if a user simply wants to learn the definitions of certain words, or what a process is then that user should on his/her own look it up or ask. It's genuinely that simple. While it may take time, everything is out there and available but again, nobody wants to put in the effort.
Game developers post changelogs. 99% of Android developer do the same. Fixed this bug where blah blah blah. Same thing. But believe me when I say that there are tons of things they don't post in the changelogs because they know users aren't going to understand it and well time is money.
Back onto the whole Huawei thing though. Yes, companies can always be more transparent. That's a given. But, they don't owe that to us. They owe us absolutely nothing. While personally I'd love more transparency, it's generally not that easy to do. Maybe it costs them too much to maintain all the devices, maybe they don't have a big enough dev team. IDK. But, to go straight to Huawei is screwing us over is well.. Moronic. When we as users boot our phones up we agree to their ToS before even using the phone for the first time. Hell, soon as you purchase the phone you agree to it. It's the same with every tech company. Ok, I feel like I wrote way too much. So, I guess this will conclude it for me. It was a nice change discussing things with you. You don't see that often on the internet unfortunately. Have a great day
agraceful said:
Actually, it does. Writing a book means you're an author. Singing a song makes you a singer. These titles are often held to such a high standard that it makes no sense. If I draw a picture, I am an artist. I don't need a degree or even to have gone to an art school. Being a developer is easy. Those who view it otherwise are the ones that doubt themselves and aren't able to set realistic goals. Or again, they hold the titles to a ridiculous standard. XDA has offered courses for coding, and those are by far the simplest. Nothing is unattainable unless you yourself put that doubt in your mind.
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Yeah, I think I see your point. I feel my friend sums up it up pretty well...
"Easy" is subjective. Everything is "easy" with enough experience. It was difficult when I was starting, but I loved it so I kept going. I'm both a hobbyist and a professional."
agraceful said:
Earlier, I wasn't stating that users need to learn to build ROMs to understand what's going on, so my apologies if it appeared that way. But if a user simply wants to learn the definitions of certain words, or what a process is then that user should on his/her own look it up or ask. It's genuinely that simple. While it may take time, everything is out there and available but again, nobody wants to put in the effort.
Game developers post changelogs. 99% of Android developer do the same. Fixed this bug where blah blah blah. Same thing. But believe me when I say that there are tons of things they don't post in the changelogs because they know users aren't going to understand it and well time is money.
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I guess when I really think about it, I really just want people to learn how to be inquisitive and teach themselves. I hate this lazy user era we are in...All this tech and barely anyone knows how to use it. No one benefits from it....It's aggravating.
agraceful said:
Back onto the whole Huawei thing though. Yes, companies can always be more transparent. That's a given. But, they don't owe that to us. They owe us absolutely nothing. While personally I'd love more transparency, it's generally not that easy to do. Maybe it costs them too much to maintain all the devices, maybe they don't have a big enough dev team. IDK. But, to go straight to Huawei is screwing us over is well.. Moronic. When we as users boot our phones up we agree to their ToS before even using the phone for the first time. Hell, soon as you purchase the phone you agree to it. It's the same with every tech company. Ok, I feel like I wrote way too much. So, I guess this will conclude it for me. It was a nice change discussing things with you. You don't see that often on the internet unfortunately. Have a great day
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As much as I hate to say it, your right. I also enjoyed our conversation...I strive to carry out polite/constructive conversations with people on the internet. Normally I'm challenging people on their thoughts, but for once I was challenged and it made me reconsider some things. Thanks and you have a great day as well.
I have to say that if Huawei phone gets regular updates for 2 years than good fo you. My last Android phone by HTC had one update after release and that’s all. Somebody wrote here that every brand is doing the same. It’s not true. My very old iPhone 5s just got a new system like any other newer iPhones. It will get normal updates until end of iOS 11 in September 2018. 5s was released in September 2013, so 5 years of constant updates... On the other hand will you be able to live with one phone for 5 years ?
Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk
rumpelst said:
I have to say that if Huawei phone gets regular updates for 2 years than good fo you. My last Android phone by HTC had one update after release and that’s all. Somebody wrote here that every brand is doing the same. It’s not true. My very old iPhone 5s just got a new system like any other newer iPhones. It will get normal updates until end of iOS 11 in September 2018. 5s was released in September 2013, so 5 years of constant updates... On the other hand will you be able to live with one phone for 5 years ?
Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk
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I guess we have been discussing Android phones.
BTW, it has been reported that iOS 12 would support iPhone 5s.
MT2-User said:
I guess we have been discussing Android phones.
BTW, it has been reported that iOS 12 would support iPhone 5s.
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Agraceful mentioned Apple. There is a really big deference in that regard between Android and other OS’s. Windows phone were also supported for a very long time. I think the cause of the problem that people do not care if they have newest google security updates, support is not good to advertise. What is or was good to advertise are the numbers. Screen size, pixel density, processor speed, aperture of the lens. Numbers are important but more important is software and developer support after you buy phone. Htc 10 had some minor flaws which were not polished at all because they did not care... Best phone with Android I had in that regard was Asus ZenFone 2. Asus did not update Android from 5 to 6 fo a very long time but 5 was polished with a constant updates, phone had a one or two month old security patches no older. I wonder how it looks in Huawei.
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I don't get it. They now have to update to new security patches and we have been promised Oreo and they are already testing in China.
agraceful said:
ANYONE can build a ROM
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Lol, well perhaps more people could try harder to learn, but wild generalisations don't really help anyone.
If you have family and friends in the arts or engineering etc, none of them know what a ROM actually is, nevermind to actually build one.
You are assuming a level of computing understanding that is just not as wide as you appear to believe.
Thread cleaned
It would be appreciated if you guys can lower the tone a bit. There was at first a "polite/constructive conversation" but it derailed quite fast.
Not sure if your whole conversation has something to do with the thread topic, but please stay civil, any time.
Also, if you see posts which break the rules, please just report them, don't reply in threads.
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result, what may be OK to say in your part of the world, may not be OK elsewhere. Please don't direct profanity, sexually explicit language or other offensive content toward Members or their work. Conversely, while reading posts from other members, remember that the word you find offensive may not be offensive to the writer. Tolerance is a two-way street.
..
2.3 Flaming / Lack of respect: XDA is about sharing and this does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) or rudeness. Flaming or posting with a lack of respect is unacceptable. Treat new members in the manner in which you would like to have been treated when you were a new member. When dealing with any member, provide them with guidance, advice and instructions when you can, showing them respect and courtesy. Never post in a demanding, argumentative, disrespectful or self-righteous manner.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and / or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive and therefore, none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
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The XDA forum rules: https://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
Thank you.
Wood Man
Senior Moderator
With all that being said, I, personally, will never buy a Huawei and some other brands phone again because they simply will not let people unlock the bootloaders.
"Announcement
To provide better user experience and avoid issues caused by ROM flashing, the unlock code application service will be stopped for all products launched after 2018-5-24. For products released prior to this date, the service will be stopped 60 days after this announcement.
Thank you for your understanding. We will continue to provide you with quality services.
2018-5-24
Huawei Device Co., Ltd"
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You can find that announcement when you log in here : https://emui.huawei.com/en/unlock_detail
sold out
Updates were taking forever, so I sold out honor 8.:good: