Just think about it - the development and resources that go into a simple glass slab is pretty simple. The magic formula, if you wish, has already been brought to the table since 2007 - a black slab with a screen on top.
But a Hardware Keyboard phone, that's another story. In all the reviews of QWERTY phones, you see how they judge the feel, the grip, the resistance, the ease of use, the placement of keys. It's a whole domain of mobile phone research.
What the Desire Z brought new was it's „Z” sliding factor, which allowed it to be very slim compared to other QWERTY phones, especially „dumb phones” such as Nokia's C6.
The fact that HTC has expertise in this domain has been proven with the Touch Pro, the Touch Pro 2 and also the Desire Z. You can't argue the fact that 90% of the reviews praised the keyboards on these devices, although some caveats, such as the Desire Z not having a separate numbers row, haven't gone unnoticed.
Apart from the sliding mechanism, think about space. I saw the photos of the dismantled iPhone 4S. The battery in that thing takes about 80% of its space. The motherboard is tiny! I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar in our phones, too. Add in the complexity of a keyboard slider and you've got yourself a compromise a company with a rough financial year such as HTC isn't really willing to take.
To add new, more powerful components, you need space for heat to dissipate. You need space for fancier processors (LTE, new imaging chip, better GPU, etc) and that's already hard when you want to supply a battery which allows the user to enjoy the phone for more than three hours before it's dead. With the complexity needed to add a keyboard, you lose precious space which would be better off filled with mAh's rather than hinges and keys.
This is my take on it. What do you guys think?
You forgot about one little beauty.... S730/S740 aka Rose...
That was a beautiful thingy
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA
I think it all boils down to this: no qwerty phone was a real moneymaker for them, so they'll just focus on more successful form factors.
It's a pitty, and I hope HTC will have a change of mind on this.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using Tapatalk 2
I agree with HTC, DZ is enough massive phone, and mostly by metal casing, but people want more moblity. Personally I don't use my keyboard that much, but it's good feature anyway. Maybe one succesor could be released, but if not, they should release update for us. Comparing today's screens, touch input keys are almost as big as our's, so it's good standing.
Guys, we already have a thread about this lol! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1609162 I know we are all upset/frustrated by this news but let's remain calm and rational please
sino8r said:
Guys, we already have a thread about this lol! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1609162 I know we are all upset/frustrated by this news but let's remain calm and rational please
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't announcing the fact, I was trying to find a reasonable explanation for this, given that HTC has not stated one clearly.
Anyhow, one thing is for certain - HTC's devices will remain top of the line. I, for one, hate Samsung's plasticky design, it feels cheap. HTC phones feel good in hand, and you can touch the quality.
And don't even get me started on the screens.
You have another post talking about same issue.
Enviado desde mi HTC Vision usando Tapatalk 2
..
I have a Wwildfire S and a GT 7.7, and still my mobile office is the DZ, just because it's so easy to use the sliding KB. There is no comparison between writing a lot of emails on a phisical KB and writing them on an onscreen KB, no matter how evolved the onscreen KB is.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using Tapatalk 2
I never would buy an Android phone without hardware keyboard. A haptic keyboard doesn't compare to a touchscreen one even with swift or something like that when is comes to input of lage texts.
For a word or so a touchscreen keyboard is OK. But if this will becomes true and HTC does not produce keyboard phones any more, there are other nice alternatives out there..
Mike
HTC was my first choice on the smartphones. Then I decide to renew my phone I will buy Motorola Droid 4. I like touchscreens with physical keyboards.
Sent from my Desire Z flashed Virtuous G-Lite ROM 2.0.1
I love my hercules, but if I need to write sweet, thoughtful emails. Which one do you think I use?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
bogdan5844 said:
Just think about it - the development and resources that go into a simple glass slab is pretty simple. The magic formula, if you wish, has already been brought to the table since 2007 - a black slab with a screen on top.
But a Hardware Keyboard phone, that's another story. In all the reviews of QWERTY phones, you see how they judge the feel, the grip, the resistance, the ease of use, the placement of keys. It's a whole domain of mobile phone research.
What the Desire Z brought new was it's „Z” sliding factor, which allowed it to be very slim compared to other QWERTY phones, especially „dumb phones” such as Nokia's C6.
The fact that HTC has expertise in this domain has been proven with the Touch Pro, the Touch Pro 2 and also the Desire Z. You can't argue the fact that 90% of the reviews praised the keyboards on these devices, although some caveats, such as the Desire Z not having a separate numbers row, haven't gone unnoticed.
Apart from the sliding mechanism, think about space. I saw the photos of the dismantled iPhone 4S. The battery in that thing takes about 80% of its space. The motherboard is tiny! I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar in our phones, too. Add in the complexity of a keyboard slider and you've got yourself a compromise a company with a rough financial year such as HTC isn't really willing to take.
To add new, more powerful components, you need space for heat to dissipate. You need space for fancier processors (LTE, new imaging chip, better GPU, etc) and that's already hard when you want to supply a battery which allows the user to enjoy the phone for more than three hours before it's dead. With the complexity needed to add a keyboard, you lose precious space which would be better off filled with mAh's rather than hinges and keys.
This is my take on it. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your take on it makes absolutly no sense what so ever with past history and current.
Reread it.
Related
I am looking to ditch Symbian and have decided that Android is the way to go (despite the downfalls along the lines of camera and sound quality).
It might seem a no brainer but I am not sure I have use for the qwerty offered by the Desire. That said, I like the latest and greatest but I am trying to convince myself that the Desire Z with its extra bulk is worth the extra if I am not going to use the qwerty much.
I might find that I grow to like the keyboard on the other hand (which is what I am hoping as I have almost convinced myself to go with the Z).
Any arguments for forgetting the Desire entirely?
If you hold back i will have both devices here once my Z arrives.....my gf has just got a desire and i wasnt sure if she would be ok with the s/w keyboard....its not too bad actully but i still prefer hardware qwerty keyboards.
Watch this space.
before owning the a desire i had a nokia e71 and i gotta say the keyboard on it was amazing. After realizing the desire z is getting released soon I decided to sell my desire. I just never got used to using a touch keyboard after using one with real hardware keys. I'd say go for the desire z if having a hardware keyboard is your thing. But otherwise the desire is pretty decent and I was extremely satisfied with it except for the fact it didn't have a keyboard.
IMO the display should not be obtruded by the input (even not my own fingers)
I use the web intensively from my phone (news, blogs, mil, etc)
so I can't imagine using internet without a keyboard
I'm using the X10 now and I've made my best to adapt, but I really miss the keyboard
Again, just IMO, but a physical keyboard makes me more productive
Well, I was holding out for the Desire Z, but needed to get a new phone, as I couldn't live with my old phone anymore. So, I got a San Francisco (SF) on Orange PAYG (it's a rebranded zte blade). Anyway, I didn't think that I would get on without a hardware keyboard, as I moved away from a touch pro 2...
Anyway, installed swype on the SF, and really getting on quite well with it. It's not as bad as I thought it would be to live without a physical keyboard.
Obviously a physical keyboard is much better to use, but for the time being, I cancelled my pre-order (did so a while back), and am just using the SF for a bit. Will give me time to see how well the Desire Z does, and whether I wanna buy one in the future, or just stick with the SF for a bit longer...
But, I would say that if you are not desperate for a hardware keyboard, and have used touch screen keyboards before and got on ok with them, then it's your choice as to whether the extra money is worth it?! I think most of the differences between the two is the physical keyboard, the internal available rom (1.5gb vs 0.5gb I think), a few differences in the network capabilities and the new sense ui and htcsense.com. So, if you put a custom rom on the phone, then you will have basically the same phone, but without the keyboard and the extra rom...
@lovelldr: are you serious ? Android 2.1, only 600MHz CPU and missing QWERTY keyboard is more than small difference. You are comparing one of the lowend models to the highend.
If we go with your analogy, HTC Dream is pretty much same phone as HTC Desire HD. Except the display size, display resolution, CPU speed, RAM, ROM, other features...
faugusztin said:
@lovelldr: are you serious ? Android 2.1, only 600MHz CPU and missing QWERTY keyboard is more than small difference. You are comparing one of the lowend models to the highend.
If we go with your analogy, HTC Dream is pretty much same phone as HTC Desire HD. Except the display size, display resolution, CPU speed, RAM, ROM, other features...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WTF, I'm saying I'm staying with that phone until I've seen whether the Desire Z is as good as stated...
I'm stating to the OP the differences between the Desire Z and original Desire... It's then his decision whether he chooses. I was merely stating a software issue (so it doesn't matter which version of android or the hardware differences). I found that swype (again, can be used on any phone, so it doesn't matter) is a good means of input, and that the hardware keyboard isn't so much of a big deal breaker to me any more (after trying it out on the SF).
Where did I say to him to forget either of those phones, and go with an SF?! I didn't...
Then i misunderstood your post, it sounded like you are comparing Desire Z and the Orange SF.
In my experience, physical keyboard is impossible to replace. I had HTC Touch HD, it was a nightmare to type on it (and i had it for a year, so don't try to argue that i didn't tried). Even a bad physical keyboard (like the one on my Milestone) is miles ahead of any virtual keyboard.
yes, physical keyboard is better than a virtual keyboard, hands down...
But, I'm saying that if the user is thinking they can get on with a virtual keyboard (I think that swype is the best virtual keyboard I've tried, works much better than any of the other virtual keyboards, and without swype I probably wouldn't be recommending this), wants to save some money, and isn't too bothered with the small differences between the two (i.e. the internal ram, network offerings etc), then the desire z will be good to go.
If you have someone you know who has an android device, and are able to get swype for that device, then give it a go, and see how you get on... If all works well, and you're happy to save some cash, then go for the original desire I would say... But, at the end, it's your choice, and you might be unable to get on with virtual keyboard, or be a user that must have the latest and greatest...
Problem with Swype is that beta is closed, and i'm not in a mood to explore grey areas of internet . On other side, Swype still doesn't solve the biggest problem of all virtual keyboards - they take up big part of screen, so you have a keyboard instead of content.
faugusztin said:
On other side, Swype still doesn't solve the biggest problem of all virtual keyboards - they take up big part of screen, so you have a keyboard instead of content.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it's all swings and roundabouts... When using the physical keyboard on a device, it means that the size of the device is almost twice as big... hehe. OK, enough of my argumenting
Thanks for your comments folks... a couple of things to consider but I think I am leaning more towards the Desire Z.
As I understand it, as well as the other points mentioned, the cpu in the Desire Z is a later generation than the Desire so the device runs a lot faser and smoother. I am not too bothered about the qwerty as originally stated but If the qwerty doesn't make the handset all that much bigger than the Desire then I may just take a punt - I may even grow to like the qwerty and I am sure it will be far in advance of the others I have used in the past - namely the Qtek 9100 and the Vario 3.
Price wise I don't think there is a huge difference with current UK prices for sim free handsets so I may be better just shelling out the extra £60-70 for a cutting edge device (Desire Z)?
What I am anxious to avoid is ending up with a new handset that has a qwerty that is never used. That said, apart from the HD which is too big for me I don't see that I have much alternative.
Thanks again for your thoughts ...
Desire Z, for the simple reason that it uses a next generation processor compared to the Desire. The clock speed is a bit lower, but the much faster graphics make up for it. I'm sure there will be overclocking available once the phone is rooted too.
One of the main shortcomings of the Desire's Snapdragon is its graphics capabilities. It's just not up to par with other top players like the Milestone and the Galaxy S series. The Z addresses that.
Soaa- said:
Desire Z, for the simple reason that it uses a next generation processor compared to the Desire. The clock speed is a bit lower, but the much faster graphics make up for it. I'm sure there will be overclocking available once the phone is rooted too.
One of the main shortcomings of the Desire's Snapdragon is its graphics capabilities. It's just not up to par with other top players like the Milestone and the Galaxy S series. The Z addresses that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is rooted and overclockt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=DVORX-ZFblA
Another plus point of the Z over the desire is that the multitouch screen actually works perfectly, I will dig up the video which demonstrates both the desire and Z screens showing off the multitouch hardware........
The thread HERE highlights this topic.
You're doing a good job of convincing me guys, thanks
I looked at some HD videos last night and it seems that thing is even bugger (marginally) than the HD2! Too big for me for sure so back to the Z I think.
mrvanx - I assum this is the video you were referring to?
http://pocketnow.com/android/does-the-g2-suffer-the-same-multi-touch-problems-as-the-nexus-one-video
Demo's the multi-touch differences of the DZ and the N1 very well. I assume the Desire uses the same panel as the N1.
Gone for the Desire Z and ordered from Amazon.co.uk
Delivery stated as between 3rd and 5th Nov (I ordered using Free Super Saver Delivery) but I am sure this will be delayed.
At least they don't take payment prior to dispatch so nothing to lose really.
stian230 said:
it is rooted and overclockt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=DVORX-ZFblA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not actually rooted yet, that's a temp root.
LickTheEnvelope said:
It's not actually rooted yet, that's a temp root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but he was answering the guy that was saying once the phone is rooted, then it will be able to be overlocked. And he's correct in saying that it has been rooted now, and it is able to be overclocked. It's just semantics, it's not a permanent root, but it's still been rooted.
It's not semantics. I believe we can't flash custom ROMs, which to many people is the best thing about rooting.
I have had the desire Z for 2 months now.. love it really.
Except a few things..:
1) it's weight.. this is just the biggest turn-off for me. I like traveling lightweight and I thought I'd get used to it but right now I really just prefer a lighter phone..
2) Do i really need the keyboard? it feels good to use the keyboard to type, yes, but there are times where I tried the onscreen keyboard and it worked too, and I don't think I was much slower.
3) The hinge just feels too loose.. makes the device feel cheap. I dont like having the feeling that my front screen will fall out anytime.
4) No frontfacing camera. I will be traveling abroad next semester, and the option to be able to see my family while I'm outside is nice.
Now there are things I really like and will miss if I trade this phone in:
1) the trackpad. I just love it! I use it to wake up my phone now. I use it to slide across my screens on launcherpro just because it's so fun. I really am thinking of keep it just for the safe of the trackpad. I also find the trackpad to be the easiest button for picture taking.
2) the keyboard allows you to see the screen while inputting, instead of the white input screen.
3) camera button for quick access to camera!
Well i'm currently still deciding.. the lightweight desire S is really attractive to me right now.. but I want the trackpad so bad.. sigh.. anyone here experienced how moving away from this phone is like?
I have thought about this as well, I really like the look and feel of the desire s. But and its a big but, I wouldn't only get one when the bootloader has been cracked. I don't like sense very much, so cm7 or another aosp build is a must for me.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Well it is a more powerful phone, and it looks like it may meet more of your needs.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2
Ya Trade it.
If keyboard is not important then get the Desire S.
I hate how heavy my Desire Z is with 1800 battery but i need keyboard....
thunder9111 said:
I have had the desire Z for 2 months now.. love it really.
Except a few things..:
1) it's weight.. this is just the biggest turn-off for me. I like traveling lightweight and I thought I'd get used to it but right now I really just prefer a lighter phone..
2) Do i really need the keyboard? it feels good to use the keyboard to type, yes, but there are times where I tried the onscreen keyboard and it worked too, and I don't think I was much slower.
3) The hinge just feels too loose.. makes the device feel cheap. I dont like having the feeling that my front screen will fall out anytime.
4) No frontfacing camera. I will be traveling abroad next semester, and the option to be able to see my family while I'm outside is nice.
Now there are things I really like and will miss if I trade this phone in:
1) the trackpad. I just love it! I use it to wake up my phone now. I use it to slide across my screens on launcherpro just because it's so fun. I really am thinking of keep it just for the safe of the trackpad. I also find the trackpad to be the easiest button for picture taking.
2) the keyboard allows you to see the screen while inputting, instead of the white input screen.
3) camera button for quick access to camera!
Well i'm currently still deciding.. the lightweight desire S is really attractive to me right now.. but I want the trackpad so bad.. sigh.. anyone here experienced how moving away from this phone is like?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will answer your question, how does it feel moving away from this phone? - Miserable - Simple one word... Well... I haven't 100% moved away from my G2/DZ, I just needed one thing which this phone doesn't have, a Front Facing Camera, it was more important to me than to have a physical keyboard... and hence I purchased Moto Atrix. Great phone and all the goodies as higher res screen, dual core processor, etc... but nothing as much fun as owning a G2/DZ.
You can mod your G2/DZ, you get the sturdy and rock solid feel holding this phone in your hand, you have the DLNA support and also you can OverClock your phone...
I don't know how Desire S really feels so no comments.
If you don'r really like the heft, you don't really need the keyboard, go for any other phone, I am sure all the new phone have some or the other advantage over G2/DZ.
Note : Since I love this phone too much, i haven't let it go, i have it as my other phone, which I don't carry with me, but I usually play with my phone as soon as I get home... it becomes primary
GF's Desire S is a nice piece of kit. If you don't want a keyboard, I'd trade it. it's definitely zippier. Not enough to make me want to upgrade out of contract, though.
How about the htc sensation... that looks nice its a bit bigger though lol
I'm not sure if I can wait that long for the sensation though
Plus even the desire Z's cpu has been enough for my needs.. I don't really know why i would need duo-core.. unless it improves the battery dramatically which will be a different story.
Today I will meet someone who may want to buy my desire Z.
If it's sold today then I shall move to the next phone. If not, then I'll just keep it.
Just wish it was a bit lighter..
Getting a Desire S is, with all due respect, a pretty bad idea unless you can get it for very cheap.
I can understand your reasons for disliking the DZ, but the DS has nearly identical specs and there has been a big leap in processing power, especially now with the SGS2's Exynos processor which is a huge step up from the DZ's MSM7230.
The DS's specs were antiquated when it was released. If thos matters to you, you might want to look elsewhere
ive always been told if your gonna do something, do it right dont go and buy the desire s on a whim when the sensation is just around the corner lol
id save my money, keep the desire z if theres nothing wrong with it and when the sensation does come out, try it out before you buy it, if you dont like it then go for the desire s... the desire s will be cheaper then as well... so its win win
Yeah, Sensation is supposed to be out this or the next month, and even though I would say Desire S is a great phone and a viable replacement I would do at least, Sensation going retail in so short timespan is rendering it obsolete. Furthermore, I can hardly imagine that Desire S will get the developers attention here as Desire did as most of them already bought DHD. Sensation might end up with load of awesomeness though
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
no doubt about the sensation getting development.... i reckon the development around it will be somewhat like the htc hd2... which is also an amazing phone.
when htc make a huge deal over a phone, it usually means the developers are all over the phone. htc hd2, hd2 desire, htc desire hd, and the sensation lol
So I finally made it to T-Mobile today and played with the new phone. Overall, I'm disappointed with the build quality. I was wanting to get this phone to replace my G2 but the build quality on the G2 feels a lot better. Of course I'm already use to the G2's keyboard layout and the tactile feedback is a lot better than the slide. Also, the physical menu buttons on the slide, which I prefer, could be made a lot better. The optical pad worked a lot better (more sensitive) than my G2, but so did the demo G2 . And the sliding on the slide seemed very poor.
I am in love with the camera and it's features though. And yes its dual core processor and ram. But that's it. I'm guess I'm waiting either for the next G phone with a physical keyboard or HTC's next super phone.
Until then, I'm thankful for the doubleshot rom! Loving the camera on that one.
Anyone feel the same?
I think in general us keyboard lovers are gonna have to start seeing the writing on the wall. Keyboard phones are on the way out. Their a huge rarity now and only getting more obscure. I like a keyboard but I'm not like many people on here where I HAVE to have a keyboard. Pretty soon only option is gonna be a blackberry LMFAO LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry just the thought of even touching one of those outdated pieces of junk makes me laugh.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
hahaha. I might tell myself I don't need TO HAVE but I think I do. lol. It stopped me from picking up the sensation. Either that, or the funding. haha. But I still have my blackberry 9780 with me! haha. I carry it around for my phone numbers... but lately I haven't been carrying it around. Thanks to the cloud. lol. And the keys on there are too small now. Although it is fast and easy to text... that's about all it's good for. Well, maybe a mp3 player too. haha
I'm just not super hot on the looks of the MT4GS. I just think the MyTouch line has always been too flashy, chromy and has the "genious button". Not to mention that I'm not a big fan of the skin.
If you really need a keyboard I would hope that a "G3" would be coming out eventually by the time that the G2 has lost all relevance. They've done the G1 and G2, why not continue? I havent heard anything about this though. I'm just expecting it considering the G2 is coming up on 1yr old in October. The MT4GS is kind of a next progression in keyboard phones after the G2, but I'd really expect them to have another "G" device, as they have kept the MyTouch and G lines separate.
xsteven77x said:
I think in general us keyboard lovers are gonna have to start seeing the writing on the wall. Keyboard phones are on the way out. Their a huge rarity now and only getting more obscure. I like a keyboard but I'm not like many people on here where I HAVE to have a keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used the keyboard a ton when I first got the phone, but I've started to use it less and less unless I need to nail out a big e-mail or forum post. I like to have it but have a hard time justifying the weight and thickness to have something I won't always use. I don't think I'll be in need of a keyboard on my next device.
I always think that there will be keyboard phones though. There's always going to be a market for it, but I dont expect each manufacturer to have more than 1 keyboard phone out at a time.
For all us Qwerty addicts....
Start drooling
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i927_galaxy_s_ii-4071.php
dumraden said:
For all us Qwerty addicts....
Start drooling
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i927_galaxy_s_ii-4071.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would anybody drool over that piece of trash? Look at the layout of the keyboard -- useless.
I suppose the dual core processor, the tegra 2 equivalent gpu and Sammies build quality is of no matter to you.
Have you tried it out to know its useless? Or can you judge by a 3d rendering of the phone how the keyboard feels?
I would rather upgrade to a qwerty smartphone with sense ui. Best ui ever
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
mreeekay said:
So I finally made it to T-Mobile today and played with the new phone. 1)Overall, I'm disappointed with the build quality. I was wanting to get this phone to replace my G2 but the build quality on the G2 feels a lot better. 2)Of course I'm already use to the G2's keyboard layout and the tactile feedback is a lot better than the slide. 3)Also, the physical menu buttons on the slide, which I prefer, could be made a lot better. 4)The optical pad worked a lot better (more sensitive) than my G2, but so did the demo G2 . 5)And the sliding on the slide seemed very poor.
6)I am in love with the camera and it's features though. And yes its dual core processor and ram. But that's it. I'm guess I'm waiting either for the next G phone with a physical keyboard or HTC's next super phone.
Until then, I'm thankful for the doubleshot rom! Loving the camera on that one.
Anyone feel the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(I bought the MT4GS on wednesday.. here are my thoughts)
1) build quality is solid. they used a lot more plastic than on the G2 (could be a pro or con depending on your viewpoint), yes, and it's nowhere near as sexy as the G2 (not many phones are, imo), but it's not going to fall into pieces.
2) with you there 100%... it's just a learning curve, though. pretty soon I'll forget the G2 keyboard. they are nearly identical anyway, only a few minor differences, including the tactile feedback.
3) my only gripe with the buttons is the genius button.. I don't need a specific button mapped to pull an application that does what the OS already does so well with a "search" button... it just seems like a waste and a silly marketing gimmick. otherwise, they work well enough. I keep placing, rather than pushing, my fingers on the buttons though and am confused when nothing happens.. then I realize I have to push, hehe.
4) the optical trackpad is much better, imo, than the G2's. I thought the G2's would be very responsive and accurate, but it just wasn't... and I kept it extremely clean so it didn't have anything to do with gunk buildup. the MT4GS trackpad is fluid, responsive and accurate even when dirty.. very nice.
5) I really liked the G2's z-hinge personally, so going back to more of a Dream style (not the same hinge obviously, but similar in effort needed to pop it out) kb is a little weird.. but it feels durable and has a nice "locked" feeling that you didn't get from the G2. those of you who lost sleep over the z-hinge would be very happy with the Slide's hinge mechanism.
6) this, ultimately, is the selling point for me. the rest of the stuff is whatever... the hardware specs are impressive. I haven't even been toting my digicam anymore, there's no need... the Slide takes seriously awesome photos and video. once we get s-off and get some good development going, I foresee great things for the MT4GS.
is it worth the upgrade? in my opinion, after buying the MT4GS, no... it's really not. is it nice to have a new toy with some cool features that I wished the G2 could have had? you know it.
Okay, I posted a very similar thread in the Epic 4G section. I don't often come to this forum.
It seems to me that looking at all of the new releases, with the possible exception of the Motorola Droid series (although it seems the Droid Razr is getting more hype than the Droid 3 did, so it may not even count as a flagship), is the era of flagship physical keyboard phones dead?
Noteworthy to me is the fact that other than the Desire Z (and the Desire HD was arguably the flagship of its time, although IMO the Z was a better phone), there have been no new keyboard flagship phones from HTC or Samsung or most of the smaller makers.
What do you think is the future of keyboard phones?
So far all of them seem to be decidedly mid-range devices, not phones that set the bar, so to speak.
G3. Can't have a google dev phone without a keyboard yet.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Samsungs Captivate Glide looks very promising
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/14/samsung-captivate-glide-and-doubletime-hands-on/
but for now just in the US..
I was a Keyboard Smartphoner from the beginning, but now, I think on the bigger screens its more easier to type fast on a virtual keyboard.
Maybe my next Phone is no more equipped with a hardware keyboard.
first fact for this is the wight and the design.. 180g and 15mm is not so "smart"
kabauterman said:
Samsungs Captivate Glide looks very promising
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/14/samsung-captivate-glide-and-doubletime-hands-on/
but for now just in the US..
I was a Keyboard Smartphoner from the beginning, but now, I think on the bigger screens its more easier to type fast on a virtual keyboard.
Maybe my next Phone is no more equipped with a hardware keyboard.
first fact for this is the wight and the design.. 180g and 15mm is not so "smart"
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I wish it would be more "mainstream", have a 720p screen and LTE support. I'll stick with my Desire Z for now.
i don't get the race to the flattest phone in the world, i would say give some extra fat for all those extremely flatty things and slap bigger battery in them.
Desire Z feels like a phone, i like the way its think, not too thick, and im fine whit the weight, people can't carry 200 grams whit em anymore?
There's Droid 4 coming, 5row qwerty, looks promising, hope they include atleast 1,2Ghz cpu. But at this moment i don't think im going to change to a new phone within a year. Ill hope HTC comes up whit 5 row G3.
Whippler said:
i don't get the race to the flattest phone in the world, i would say give some extra fat for all those extremely flatty things and slap bigger battery in them.
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I'm not too big on super thin either -idk what's with this trend.
So far mostly mid-range phones - Glide is a midrange; the Galaxy Note or HTC Rezound are more like top-end.
I personally prefer something a little thicker and heavier in my hands ;D
Jokes aside, the heaviness of the phone gives me the feel of a better build quality, as opposed to the cheap feel of the S II, which my gf has. So light it weighs next to nothing...
feels like the wind can just blow it away...
Yes i hate thin light phones! I want a brick phone damn it! Give me a big screen a good keyboard (im thinking G1 style but full width) and a nice thick heavy battery that will last all day. Oh and i want one of them fancy induction chargers built into the case. And a nice creditcard chip thingy.
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk
shortlived said:
Yes i hate thin light phones! I want a brick phone damn it! Give me a big screen a good keyboard (im thinking G1 style but full width) and a nice thick heavy battery that will last all day. Oh and i want one of them fancy induction chargers built into the case. And a nice creditcard chip thingy.
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk
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Like a Galaxy Note with a Desire Z style keyboard?
walropodes said:
Like a Galaxy Note with a Desire Z style keyboard?
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OMG that would rock my socks. I wonder, is there maybe a proper sized BT keyboard and a case?
Check Adapt ADK-100 Micro Keyboard (Amazon ASIN B003ZWGEW8) saying it's exactly the size of an iPhone 4. this is a comparison with the HD2: images.mobilityminded.com/2010/07/IMG_4444.jpg
Also discussed here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1327124
My opinion is riding a subway,bus etc. Qwerty wins. Physical buttons will always be superior and more versatile/precise.
I do think phones are crafted by trends, had the G2 originally been launched with a tighter spring, this phone would have sold like crazy.
Although I'm happy with my phone as I think its funny when I catch people looking at my phone wondering which one it is or why my screen is green.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
I'll stick with the Z for a long time before I move to something without a keyboard!
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk
sauron0101 said:
Okay, I posted a very similar thread in the Epic 4G section. I don't often come to this forum.
It seems to me that looking at all of the new releases, with the possible exception of the Motorola Droid series (although it seems the Droid Razr is getting more hype than the Droid 3 did, so it may not even count as a flagship), is the era of flagship physical keyboard phones dead?
Noteworthy to me is the fact that other than the Desire Z (and the Desire HD was arguably the flagship of its time, although IMO the Z was a better phone), there have been no new keyboard flagship phones from HTC or Samsung or most of the smaller makers.
What do you think is the future of keyboard phones?
So far all of them seem to be decidedly mid-range devices, not phones that set the bar, so to speak.
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You seem to have missed the HTC DOUBLESHOT:
http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/Phones...px?cell-phone=T-Mobile-myTouch-4G-Slide-Black
I moved from the Desire to the Desire Z.
To me, a thin keyboard-less phone like the Desire is like an Aston Martin with a 1 litre engine in it. It may look nice but, it's missing the grunt to really get things done (functionality wise rather than cpu!).
With the Desire Z, I can snap open the keyboard and get far more screen real estate without having to have a software keyboard popping up. I can also do common tasks like copying and pasting faster and easily switch apps with shortcuts. I can pretty much touch type on my phone now, while walking for example without looking down.
Of course, we all know this, I just wish the public would realise the advantages of having a keyboard and then manufacturers would make more of an effort. Maybe if we all lectured friends, we can force a tipping point!
kabauterman said:
Samsungs Captivate Glide looks very promising
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/14/samsung-captivate-glide-and-doubletime-hands-on/
but for now just in the US..
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Well and at&t at that. Ugh.
The Glide has already been out in Canada for a couple weeks or so. Although Rogers is just as bad as AT&T probably.
Well, you got me there. Me and my brother enjoy the feel of keyboards on our phones. My G2 came across an lcd problem and my sister got me a G2x, good phone but couldn't enjoy the LG,since I'm an htc guy. Sold it,got a sidekick 4G, didn't like the way samsung made it. Sold that, bought a new LCD, fixed my G2. At the end of the day, I'm a Qwerty keyboard HTC guy. As for my bro, a HTC mytouch guy, he loves the Mytouch Slide 4G. We both came from a G1. I'm praying for the G3. *fingers crossed*
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
What I'm hoping for in the next year:
1.2 ghz dual core minimum
5 inch screen (4.5 inch minimum)
Qwerty 3-4 row I don't care
Hdmi out
Not samsung (wii controller won't work)
Must have decent battery life, most liekly ill be buying another fat mugen lol
preferred htc but its not really a big deal to me
Don't care about thick or thin
Honestly the desire z handles everything but the screen size and hdmi out want my n64 on the big screen! I'm hoping for gamecube/dreamcast emulators in the next years. These overclocked dual cores can easily handle it.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
scottmog said:
What I'm hoping for in the next year:
1.2 ghz dual core minimum
5 inch screen (4.5 inch minimum)
Qwerty 3-4 row I don't care
Hdmi out
Not samsung (wii controller won't work)
Must have decent battery life, most liekly ill be buying another fat mugen lol
preferred htc but its not really a big deal to me
Don't care about thick or thin
Honestly the desire z handles everything but the screen size and hdmi out want my n64 on the big screen! I'm hoping for gamecube/dreamcast emulators in the next years. These overclocked dual cores can easily handle it.
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You couldn't PAY me to use a phone with a 5" screen. Screen ***ABSOLUTELY MUST*** be UNDER 4". Any bigger than that and it isn't a phone -- its a tablet, and no, I'm not interested in holding a tablet up to my head to make a phone call.
dhkr234 said:
You couldn't PAY me to use a phone with a 5" screen. Screen ***ABSOLUTELY MUST*** be UNDER 4". Any bigger than that and it isn't a phone -- its a tablet, and no, I'm not interested in holding a tablet up to my head to make a phone call.
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Cool, wasn't really asking for anyones opinion. Some people just don't like big phones, I love big phones and surf the internet and play games quite often. I don't wear tight jeans too lol, so 5 inch phones would not really be to big.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
I want to start a thread with my own review, but im placing it here cause it's more like a thread-starter than actual review.
Usage of smartphones general, and why is Desire Z still extremely useful phone:
1. Hardware keyboard: there are many YT videos showing speed typing on various devices, like iPhone, and Android tablets/phones, but nothing can compare to the actual keyboard. the main advantage, in my opinion is the fact that for a very short time, one can learn to type like using a PC keyboard - without looking. and that feature makes this phone as an actual mobile station for all sorts of stuff that emulate laptop usage. second advantage is clear screen when typing. that is pretty much the reason why I cant imagine to type on a non-hardware phone anymore.
2. material quality - hard casing, and not just compared to other companies, but also compared to the other HTC devices. This phone is like an homage to early indestructible phones that were not intended to be like that (3310, 6210, 7650) Is it weight, is it experiment from HTC (there are 20+ types of plastic for making plastic stuff like casings) or something else, but this phone is the hardest phone I had, and I had Samung Android, iPhones, SE, you name it.
And on top of that, keyboard hinge wont break. I cant find more than 5 forum posts using google where someone complains of broken Keyboard hinge.
And, on top of top of that - "Vision" are the last in HTC production line to have licenced Cornig Gorilla Glass. Sensation XL and phones after that have HTC's substitute glass. (God knows why)
3. Screen - let's start with SLCD - You will find many reviews stating that it's a bad product, cause of the viewing angles. Viewing angles being the MOST retarded property of a screen, marketing vise. WHO watches a screen from an angle, more than 3 seconds, in their life ? So, when we putt aside that property - you have screen (PVA panel) that produces colors maybe even better than IPS. People get easily tricked by Samsung marketing, when they read stuff like: "SUPER AMOLED 2" - like a trailer for Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. And it is in fact - regular OLED screen with active matrix, and digitizer stuck onto the screen itself. Oh my, what a wonder. It was, for sure, made so when you break the SGS2/Note screen, you pay arm and a leg for replacement. Buying digitizer and screen at the same time. And the worst part is that AMOLED is nowhere near that good, saturation is awful (my personal opinion), and >4.0 inch phones with AMOLED have bad colors (google "Note screen problem", "SGS2 screen problem"
Resolution of screen - How come that people get so hyped by late Steve, whenever "retina" was mentioned .. ? ~250PPI is better than "retina" (326PPI)!!!
My neighbor is a rich bastard, and he has every single product Apple made, so I had a chance to see that "retina" and it hurt my eyes. Reading non-zoomed web pages on Desire Z is barely possible, doing the same on 4s is NOT possible.
it is not the pixelation of a font that is problem, it is the possibility of reading such small font. Any other aspect for that matter, is just a marketing trick.
250PPI is perfect. I dont care what journalists say about the new iPad, I dont see anything near suggested with the "retina" hype.
4. High-end phone properties - CPU
CPU is similar to the last of the x86 Intel CeleronD single core series - insanely overclockable. and like that, VERY usable. SGS2 exynos (ARM Cortex A9 @ 1.2Ghz) on stock clock has a problem of playing "Ice breaker" game (for some reason this game draws FPS lag on many devices) and on 1.5Ghz OC-ed DesireZ it runs smooth. "Fragger" game slows down extremely on SGS2 when 3 bombs are thrown simultaneously, and that doesnt happen on 1.5Ghz DZ. Dont know about other games on other phones, or Benchmarks for that matter, but this is my personal experience with SGS2 VS DZ (my brother has Samsung). Never really believed Benchmark scores since Intel started to temper with official results back in 2008 (Benchmark software in favor of Intel, compared to AMD)
I am aware of single core/dual core differences, but that is why one can flash DZ with G-slim or G-lite and enjoy the speed.
5. High-end properties - features
apart from resolution that is constantly growing on new devices, name 1 thing that DZ doesnt have ? This is NOT a midrange phone for housewives to share instagram photos, this is a serious device
Flaws -
1. it comes with crappy headphones. I myself soldered Koss Sparkplug earbuds to HTC stock headphones so I could enjoy the sound and still have cable-control buttons.
2. It is heavy. I see how many people could have problem with that but for me it's a good thing, cause I tend to lose phones, but with this one, I know where it is (pocket, jacket, etc..) and it "feels right" when holding it.
conclusion - This phone is Awesome. If I would buy a new, more expensive phone, I would like it to be 4.0 exact design like DZ, stronger CPU and slightly greater resolution. nothing more.
My only real problems with the phone is that it's too thick and heavy at times, it has severe death-grip reception issues with both wifi and mobile reception at my house where i have very little reception. Then, the thing that seems to let it down the most is the limited 512mb of RAM that it has, which makes it difficult to run Sense 3.* ROMs and such. Otherwise, i'm very happy with my phone and i agree with the points that you made . This is the best phone i've ever had!
Actually, my keyboard is slowly deteriorating >.<, a bunch of keys have stopped responding upon soft presses and need to be pressed firmly for any feedback.
Still a mid level phone. Everything i need is with DZ.
ttyykkee said:
Still a mid level phone. Everything i need is with DZ.
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I don't see how it's a mid level phone. Maybe performance wise, but it feels quite premium in almost every other aspect.
Wow, that was a kind of a roundhouse kick against all actual hypes.... i like!
I am totally at ur side. The only things i would like to have improved ist cam and ram, and size of screen. But thats kind of wishing, while taking a look at actual state of the art phones...
...at least a HTC ONE S with a HWK sounds nice to me (without AMOLED )
@crestofawave - I believe that he forgot to put "not" word after the "Still" word cause that way it makes sense.
@Superfr34k - Android users are real, compared to Apple, and even they fall under marketing influence. there are many things that do not make sense today, like when you buy a big LCDTV, you see on samsung producsts feat that says:
2 billion colors
standardized results via experiments gave 100.000 colors (human subjects), and biological calculations gave 10 million in the best case. So, this "2 billion" number stands only for Cylons and Terminators. not humans.
high resolution phones make sense, not because of the "retina" and other stuff, but because of only this feat: Wireless Full HD display mirroring. cause I dont see how one can use 1080p on a 5inch device.
all that stuff is the reason why this phone offers 90% of usage, and thats not for an average user, im talkingh about advanced users and their needs.
well
I think that the let down is the wieght, and cpu, it was 1ghz many people say it would be slightly faster which is good enough for me.
I hope they release another HTC Desire Z 2 like motorola releases droid 1 ,2 ,3 etc
If not I might have to get Galaxy S3 which Im not happy about touchscreen only phones nothing beats a qwerty keyboard
This is correct place to put a review since its general and nothing else. Op mentioned to put it here since not an "actual" review...no place else to do it
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Totally agree with everything in this article, and I know a whole lot of others do as well.
Unfortunately, it seems the cell phone market is swinging away from good phones like the G2/Desire Z. I will be keeping this phone until I see a worthy successor w/ hardware keyboard.
In all honesty, this is the best Android powered phone that I've owned, and that includes having previous phones like the Samsung Galaxy S, LG Optimus T and MyTouch 4G. The only complaint that I ever had with this phone is that I wished that the camera was a little sharper, as the full sized 5 MP pictures always seem to come out a little grainy. Usually decreasing the photo size with photoshop or other software solves that problem.
The camera is just a minor complaint, and I honestly don't expect high quality digital camera type quality from a phone camera. It would just be nice to have... that's all Other than that... it was a great phone when I got it, and it continues to be a great one. It runs all the apps I need it to, and I don't have any random crashes or force closes.
@Igoritza All the same.
I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with you. Especially the points you raise about the screens, Samsung with AMOLED, and Apple with Retina. Merely marketing baloney for their mindless fanatics.
I had no idea our desire z's screen were made of gorilla glass, Mayb I should drop it down the stairs to see how it holds up????
Bottomline there isn't many devices like the HTC Vision
The viewing angle on my screen is amazing. I did get a replacement screen a while ago so maybe mine is a newer revision?
Sent from my Desire Z using xda premium
I love this phones' keyboard - it is made perfectly.
I have used Galaxy S before, and must say, that modified Desire Z is much faster than modified GS.
What I hate in DZ is its PERFORMANCE. Probably it's android systems natural drawback, that with designed UI like sense it's so slow, laggy and buggy.
Our phone runs smoothly only the AOSP GB what is really annoying.
I'n using Sensewich rom and it makes Desire Z feel like a brand new phone, even CM7 doesn't come close to this. I'm sure that once those changes make their way to other ICS roms and bugs are ironed out most of us will be satisfied with DZ for another year or so.
It's soooo smooth, *drool*
@shadal, I'd have to disagree with you. While our phone is obviously not iPhone smooth, it is a considerably fast device with a bit of overclocking (about 1.0-1.2GHz), on anything but Sense 3.x, maybe MIUI as well. Other than that, just about every other ROM I've flashed has been very fast in general.
Sense really isn't that bad...well, 3.x wasn't the best HTC could offer but 4.0 is VERY promising, tried it and it was so incredibly!!! smooth.
So yeah, AOSP has and will have an edge in performance but it seems like HTC is closing the distance...
i love my dz as well, but thinking about buying a nexus because of the larger screen/amoled. want to read ebooks on the phone. but for the dailystuff, whatsapp/email/calls it´s more than enough. bought a mugenakku and i´m very happy with that combination. the only thing i don´t like is the lcd, it really drains more than amoled. but i think i´m gonna wait with a new phone, but i´m pretty sure a phone with quadcore isn´t needed, i think quadcore is only needed for games, but i rarely play games on my phone.
I have a G2 just to be clear.
I just flash the latest Ice Cream JIBwich 2.0 which is based on the Andromadus Beta 1. They added the newly released GPU drivers from Qualcomm and this thing is fast and smooth now. Gives it new life, way faster than it ever was with GB.
Pretty damn happy with these ICS ROMs.
@tarroyo - please dont drop it down the stairs Gorilla has frontal indestructability (doesnt get pierced by bullets or arrows) but it does not endure side pressure. it will crack
@Shure2 - maybe it's IPS and not SLCD. HTC made a special order to Sony for supplies of SLCD's for making new 3.8 phones, but their initial supplier of 3.8 screens was Hanstar - IPS manufacturer that supplies ASUS and Apple. It is Hanstar company fault that HTC had to find alternative because they blackmailed them. So, yeah, your replacement could very well be from initial batches.
@miscz - I tried Sensewich but I need teh cam the cam itself is not that good, but changig ISO from AUTO to 100 improves "everyday photo shoot", and people's faces quality, or should I say - grainy photos are less grainy and better looking. whoever didnt know about this, should try (less ISO means how much camera is sensitive to light, but it also means shorter shutter speed)
it would be nice if someone knew of an App that lets you alter aperture and shutter, thus improving custom settings and making better pictures with DZ cam.
I've been having great experiences with Andromadus. I regret not having rooted my phone in the first year of owning it, seeing as a simple overclock and new rom has made it so much faster.
The thing I'll miss the most when I switch to a new phone is the lack of a physical keyboard... none of the new flagship phones have physical keyboards, and I'm not convinced that I could type anywhere near as quickly on an on screen keyboard if it's not on a tablet.
@Igoritza: I don't think there will be any thing we can really do to our cameras to catch up to all the latest and greatest phones now =[ No matter how I try, pictures from the iPhone 4S or Galaxy Note are far better. I guess we can come close in extremely well lit environments, but even in conditions which are slightly sub-optimal, our cameras tend to perform worse than theirs.