Database Users

... chat today: ask SE about 2.1/Q4 or froyo

... in a live chat (fireside),
today 20 May 2010 at 1pm (westcoast) close to the google-boyz:
link: code.google.com/events/io/2010/sessions/fireside-chat-android-handset-manufacturers.html

So.. what came of this chat?? Or have I got my timezones wrong and it's not yet happened?? Interested to hear what SE said about keeping up with the O/S releases.

its at 9 pm uk time i think

Google got the wrong link:
h**ps://wave.google.com/wave/waveref/googlewave.com/w+-Xhdu7ZkBK7
It's this and it starts soon !!!
Give the SE guy some questions, because know the htc folks are spamming there ^^
EDIT: now it's correct

Really don't get it.. just looked on the chat site and it looks like it's all questions and no answers! am I missing something?

im_iceman said:
Really don't get it.. just looked on the chat site and it looks like it's all questions and no answers! am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was wondering the same thing. I voted for the questions, but don't understand where the fireside answers are?
Google Wave confuses me.

Bizarre isn't it... I was thinking that I was being thick... perhaps it's just the least intuitive site ever built.. ?!

im_iceman said:
Bizarre isn't it... I was thinking that I was being thick... perhaps it's just the least intuitive site ever built.. ?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is

there should have been live notes ... that really sucked !

sorry,
i was thinking, we could have a better chance SE will listen. But this live wave thing is/was a desaster.
I cant believe, that there was nobody who listen/answerd etc. ... sometimes google sucks
... hopefully there was a real fireside-talk and somebody asked the right questions (but i dont believe),
but we have a new name for a SE - android contact: "Bill Maggs"

meta96 said:
i was thinking, we could have a better chance SE will listen. But this live wave thing is/was a desaster.
I cant believe, that there was nobody who listen/answerd etc. ... sometimes google sucks
... hopefully there was a real fireside-talk and somebody asked the right questions (but i dont believe),
but we have a new name for a SE - android contact: "Bill Maggs"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sent this through the se customer support website - i don't know if it's any good...
Hello there - Would it be possible that the Xperia X10 and X10 mini (pro) be upgraded to Android 2.2 Froyo instead of Android 2.1 Eclair by Q4 of this year? There are many new features being added, so by the time we get 2.1, it will be outdated. Froyo also seems to run on the 2.6.29 linux kernel, which the X10 already runs on, so porting that at least should be as difficult as Eclair.
Also,would it be possible for people who own these devices to flash unsigned roms by unlocking the bootloader in some way - like google has done with the nexus one. This would void the warranty of course, but it would people to develop their own roms who have not had the chance to obtain a pre-release or developer phone etc. Maybe they could even test things for you?
Please take this comment seriously - I'll be looking forward to see what you think of this.
Thanks

That's great Hunteron!
Do you think you could somehow get that to this "Bill Maggs" fellow?
This seriously bothers me. We have a phone with what is probably some of the best hardware on the market, but we are stuck with crap software.
This bit interests me though:
"but we are given a promise for extended firmware support for all OS-powered devices in the future."
http://www.gsmarena.com/xperia_x10_to_get_hd_video_recording_and_android_21_in_q4-news-1634.php

HunteronX said:
I sent this through the se customer support website - i don't know if it's any good...
Hello there - Would it be possible that the Xperia X10 and X10 mini (pro) be upgraded to Android 2.2 Froyo instead of Android 2.1 Eclair by Q4 of this year? There are many new features being added, so by the time we get 2.1, it will be outdated. Froyo also seems to run on the 2.6.29 linux kernel, which the X10 already runs on, so porting that at least should be as difficult as Eclair.
Also,would it be possible for people who own these devices to flash unsigned roms by unlocking the bootloader in some way - like google has done with the nexus one. This would void the warranty of course, but it would people to develop their own roms who have not had the chance to obtain a pre-release or developer phone etc. Maybe they could even test things for you?
Please take this comment seriously - I'll be looking forward to see what you think of this.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was my se 'call centre' response...
Dear P,
Thank you for contacting the Sony Ericsson support centre regarding your Sony Ericsson X10 handset.
We can advise that the the Android 2.1 software update is due to be released at the end of qauter 4. So this will be some point between October and December. We have not as of yet been advised on the extact date for release.
We apologise for any inconvenience caused.
Kind Regards,
Emma Anderson
Sony Ericsson UK Customer Services
Not very useful is it, considering I already said that in my statement.
I don't know how to contact Bill Maggs though...

HunteronX said:
I don't know how to contact Bill Maggs though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fire off another email to them. Maybe they will give you his.

X8 development

With new phones such as the XPERIA PLAY, PRO AND ARC being released is it possible that XDA developers are planning to let go?
The X8 will not be able to sport optimal performance on upcoming android os, i can see the end coming?
i am sure that the development of j's rom will be done and racht will still produce some roms with j's rom and cynagonmod 7 but what after that?
is the x8 just going to be abandoned?
What is the future of the X8 with these new SE handsets arriving and many more better handsets?
even the x10 received the update and its bootloader was cracked

re
please reply

Sony Ericsson dumped us, our only hope lies with racht, jerpelea and nobodyatall. If they leave then that's it, X8 is finished.

Programmers built android, programmers are develop it to next versions.
What makes you think that xda programmers cant develop them too?
...The problem is that they are paid and do their job, but xda programmers give us their free time for free to develop it , not to mention that they are alone...
The problem is not what is going to happend if our phone cant support next android version, the problem is how long can xda programmers spent their time for us , they have a life too.
PS: se dont give as updates why are you so crazy for next versions...
Just stop thinking about such things untill you see a rom custom by ratch that x8 can run.
2 year ago I wanted more and more from a dev of an firefox add on... 1 year ago I start developing my own add on with a friend... Everyone can programm but you has to try first.

What features the X10 misses after Gingerbread (what do we need from developers)

I am just trying to combine all the required things in here so that it is easy for a developer or a newcomer to the world of the Xperia X10 to know what the phone really lacks.
1)Real Multitouch:
After the debate whether the chip of the X10 is Cypress or Clearpad, no progress was made in that direction even fixing the buggy dual touch we have (cross-axes problem) giving us a full dual touch.
2)16 million color:
yes, it may not be so crucial to anyone, but really why don't we get a puppy while we can unleash a dragon, and who doesn't want an extra feature in his phone?
(Thanks Z for the Bravia Engine and the FPS uncap).
3)Unlocked Bootloader:
This is the big deal and the door to unleashing the X10, Custom ROMs and Kernels will be much better, features that SE don't want us to get will be easily achieved (MT, 16M, even porting other OS like WP7 or MeeGo or ice cream sandwich :O), developing for the X10 will be easier and more open, and we would really get a phone that can compete with the Arc.
P.S.: I would like to thank the developers working on the X10 now Z, J, Ericwill, Achotjan, Wolfbreak, Cobrato, Doomlord, kxhawkins, Androxyde, ThJap, viousAD, & Trip.
Guys, without you the X10 would have been a bulk of **** staying in the eclair era with one touch and nothing would have improved, your work has saved us a lot, and we are asking you not to leave us because we really like you.
Please if you have a feature or anything that you feel missing from the phone you can post it, it is just a collection of the flaws in the X10.

I agree with op as well. We certainly need the bootloader its what keeps us from unleashing the beast heck I wouldn't be surprised if x10 is faster than arc
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

couldn't we achieve the custom kernels on gingerbread using the bootloader bypass thing?

I think the devs are waiting for se to release kernel sources

OP
I Agree.

I think the problem is and always has been having a developer who can write the drivers. Until then, I don't think it matters.

agentJBM said:
I think the problem is and always has been having a developer who can write the drivers. Until then, I don't think it matters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's much more complex that it seems.
Not even OEMs (SE, HTC, Motorola, you name it) write the device drivers for themselves.
Most of the source is provided by the hardware manufacturer (qualcomm, atheros, broadcom) - and a huge part of it is under NDA (non-disclosure agreement).
Without the thorough documentation and source code examples, it's highly unlikely to write any device driver by your own
Obviously, you could try to reverse-engineer stuff, but it's a "rocket science", even for experienced developers/companies.
Cheers,
z

zdzihu said:
It's much more complex that it seems.
Not even OEMs (SE, HTC, Motorola, you name it) write the device drivers for themselves.
Most of the source is provided by the hardware manufacturer (qualcomm, atheros, broadcom) - and a huge part of it is under NDA (non-disclosure agreement).
Without the thorough documentation and source code examples, it's highly unlikely to write any device driver by your own
Obviously, you could try to reverse-engineer stuff, but it's a "rocket science", even for experienced developers/companies.
Cheers,
z
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, would you agree that none of this stuff will ever happen without help from the manufacturers or a "Rocket Scientist" Developer?
Edit: Not that you aren't a genius. Just clarifying that we don't have the resources, no matter what.

agentJBM said:
we don't have the resources, no matter what.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree
Cheers,
z

Stop calling developers some glorified copy pasters of cyanogen mod files.

True.. without source code it becomes string theory.
Rocket science is too easy.

@op you forgot fps cap removal
Sent from my x10 on official gingerbread

Lion3494 said:
@op you forgot fps cap removal
Sent from my x10 on official gingerbread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no he didnt,FPS cap is already removed, just see the android section!!

kunalgahlot said:
no he didnt,FPS cap is already removed, just see the android section!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to 54 frames buddy. Thats just on stock the 34
Sent from my x10 on official gingerbread

Lion3494 said:
Not to 54 frames buddy. Thats just on stock the 34
Sent from my x10 on official gingerbread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No what he means is its already been achieved with custom kernels.
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App

I meant to mention things that aren't yet developed for the X10.
A feature that was exciting but was pulled back is the ability to dual boot two roms using xrec 1.0, I liked it despite never using it because it would be beneficial for the future usage :]

At least I thought that in future devs can make dual touch fully working but Z says its not possible without sources
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App

Wifi Proxy
I thought this new GB will include the support proxy setting. I have seen in some ROM I forget which one it was that have the proxy setting in it.
I know, this is sad, for lots of school, and corporate that have proxy server, most android phone/tablet are not able to connect to the net. This is a big thing if the android want to get to some of corporate and the education sectors of the market.
I hope the DEV would do something that could enable this proxy feature.
Since day one that I have the X10, I have been disappointed with the lack of this feature.
Not to mention that it also lack of the Cisco IPSEC VPN setting as well.

i did'nt ask for a dual core implement or 32 finger multi touch i just asked for a precise dual touch which SE Fails to provide me with!

KInG GaME said:
i did'nt ask for a dual core implement or 32 finger multi touch i just asked for a precise dual touch which SE Fails to provide me with!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of us do want that
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

[Poll] how many users wanting Windows Phone 7 port ?

I know that many people are too excited after the bootloader is unlocked, so now we can get a windows phone 7 port like that in HD2.
Personally speaking, I was going to trade my beloved X10 for a HD2 so that I can get the goods of both worlds, but now I am going to stay for a long while with the X10.
How many X10 users want a WP7 port?

i'd maybe try it out for a little bit

guys get realistic.....
there are TONS of devices with unlocked bootloaders, and only hd2 has a wp7 port.
It isn't as easy as you think. It is not going to happen

scoobysnacks is right. It isn't going to happen unless you the OP makes it. Most/all of the developers here are android developers...not Windows Mango. Personally I don't want it...I rather want a bootloader unlock that will work with SIM unlocked by third party software. THAT, my friend is more important now. For me atleast...

Thats why i have a samsung focus as well lol.

Even if theoretically some incredible wp7 dev shows up, expect it to take at least six months to a year.
I would be willing to bet it never happens

scoobysnacks said:
Even if theoretically some incredible wp7 dev shows up, expect it to take at least six months to a year.
I would be willing to bet it never happens
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it will not.
And, if you ask me,
I'd take any real improvement to the device
over a half-*ssed port of another OS any day.

Someone realllly needs to set the record straight on what an unlocked bootloader does and doesn't do. Half of the people on here think it will turn their phone into a spaceship, or something along those lines...

scoobysnacks said:
Someone realllly needs to set the record straight on what an unlocked bootloader does and doesn't do. Half of the people on here think it will turn their phone into a spaceship, or something along those lines...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahaha
Well, there goes my dreams...thanks alot scooby!

Dont care for W7 as much as unlocking bootloader for 3rd party simunlock and partitioning.

scoobysnacks said:
Someone realllly needs to set the record straight on what an unlocked bootloader does and doesn't do. Half of the people on here think it will turn their phone into a spaceship, or something along those lines...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"I open booter how no full multi touched?"
Been seeing that question a lot recently...
Sent from my x10, rocking Wolf's 2.3.3 + DooMKernel, overclocked to 1.2 GHz...

My dream was always to have an Wm phone...since i was a kid. Unfortunately the only thing i could find before x10 was an OMNIA. God Damn.
sent from MIUI 1.9.2 Rom test with Doom's kernel and bootloader cracked thanks to azuzu

If u see all threats started by FXP/J u see he knows windows phone Developnment as well!!

MAGPC said:
I know that many people are too excited after the bootloader is unlocked, so now we can get a windows phone 7 port like that in HD2.
Personally speaking, I was going to trade my beloved X10 for a HD2 so that I can get the goods of both worlds, but now I am going to stay for a long while with the X10.
How many X10 users want a WP7 port?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it would be possible because WP7 is not open source, and closed source software is not legal to modify and upload to XDA...
Of course, I may be wrong...

This definitely Will not happen. In more excited about hopefully having a proper ported ice cream Rom since the bootloader will allow a new upto date kernel
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App

Frosty666 said:
"I open booter how no full multi touched?"
Been seeing that question a lot recently...
Sent from my x10, rocking Wolf's 2.3.3 + DooMKernel, overclocked to 1.2 GHz...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The full multitouch won't apparate outta the blue. Drivers need to be written and that takes time.

Prodigy said:
I doubt it would be possible because WP7 is not open source, and closed source software is not legal to modify and upload to XDA...
Of course, I may be wrong...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC HD2 did that already.
video just for reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgF0cSUJE4I&feature=related
unlocked bootloader gives us a lot more option to modified our phone as much as we like (but still depend on hardware limit). Any difrent OS on x10 should be fun. not that android is bad. but we can experience a lot of diffrent os without buy another phone.

You still have problems with partition layout - I doubt Windows and Android phones have same system+data+boot partition layout...

Arnold.Alexius said:
HTC HD2 did that already.
video just for reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgF0cSUJE4I&feature=related
unlocked bootloader gives us a lot more option to modified our phone as much as we like (but still depend on hardware limit). Any difrent OS on x10 should be fun. not that android is bad. but we can experience a lot of diffrent os without buy another phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes but HD2 is an exception to the rule, it is the ONLY phone that this has been done on.
Yet how many phones have unlocked bootloaders?
These types of threads are ridiculous and not going to get us anywhere aside from giving people false impressions

I have been living in the HD2 forum for days before I got the Xperia, because I intended to get an HD2. then I got my beloved X10.
Anyway, what I know is that the HD2 and X10 have the same CPU+GPU chipset, which is an advantage to us.
So, if any developer is interested we may contact some guys in the HD2 WP7 forum asking for help.
I know that it may not happen at all, but would we stand still?. Hopes are achieved by positive attitude and work.

Very important. please read. x10 source petition.

This is for the benefit of all x10 Xperia users.
Sign this petition so we can gain any and all source or tools for our x10 from
Sony / Sony Ericsson.
This petition includes libraries for the camera, the screen or gpu and the touch input driver.
Only with your help can we truly make a difference.
http://www.change.org/petitions/sony-sony-erricson-source-code-if-any-available-for-the-x10-xperiahttp://www.change.org/petitions/sony-sony-erricson-source-code-if-any-available-for-the-x10-experia

Good idea.
Even today, our 4" screen, 1 GHz CPU, 8-32Gb SD machine is not that bad.
It's a sad thing that we bought a good Sony hardware limited by a very lame software.

Andre Verissimo said:
This is a temporary message, and I will edit it if somebody answer the question bellow.
Sometime ago, due to Android license, Sony posted in a technical site the source code file called
x10_x10mini_X10minipro_x8_eclair_2.1.A.0.435.tar.gz
that seems to have all the Eclair C-language source code, resources and makefiles for everything (including all the drivers [8,338 files], libs, scripts, kernel, firmware etc) inside our "Rachael" X10, and also for X10mini and X10minipro.
Is this what you're looking for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes... but not exactly.
We also talking about getting these features working.
I believe we may be missing a few things.
There must also be 2.3 sources somewhere.
For interest sake.. could you link me to that source?
So far thanks for doing your best to free our device.
Would someone be so kind as to post this link on modaco?

Please, take a look at
http://developer.sonymobile.com/cws...load/x10x10minix10miniprox8eclair21a0435targz

Andre Verissimo said:
Please, take a look at
http://developer.sonymobile.com/cws...load/x10x10minix10miniprox8eclair21a0435targz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The question now... is everything truly there?

We are talking about 46,194 files inside 3,212 folders.
We need a real top developer / elite hacker (like z, The_Laser or DoomLord) to check it for us. Maybe this is what they were looking for.

Andre Verissimo said:
We need a real top developer / elite hacker (like z, DoomLord or The_Laser) to check it for us. Maybe this is what they were looking for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's very possible they already have it...
But i want to look deeper into the hardware.

They knew about that package long time ago in the kernel and bootloader passing thread.
Also, we WILL not have true multitouch cause this type of touch screen does not support it, all it can do is fake the dual touch. (As you see in new Xperia 2012 Sola phone, SONY combines this type of touch screen with new type (Arc type till now) so they can using without touch the screen, you will notice that you can use a soft cloth and touch the screen too)
About 16M colors, I'm not sure cause some source say this screen can display, some not.

silveraero said:
They knew about that package long time ago in the kernel and bootloader passing thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That means we are missing parts from the puzzle.
Continue voting please..
:edit
Thanks for editing after me hitting thanks.
Others are saying the opposite of what you have posted about the touch input.
We can still use the rest of the files.
Continue voting please..

Just wrote there some words from my heart . Best wishes about this petition. I hope Sony make some surprise for us. I really count on it, cause I wanted it so long, to make my projects better .

DiKeJ said:
Just wrote there some words from my heart . Best wishes about this petition. I hope Sony make some surprise for us. I really count on it, cause I wanted it so long, to make my projects better .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm out of thanks..
Thanks allot.
we need all the support we can with this.

Oh ya, I wanna vote too but that site require postal code or zip code that my country does not use and keep saying not recognise. What the hell?

Andre Verissimo said:
Please, take a look at
http://developer.sonymobile.com/cws...load/x10x10minix10miniprox8eclair21a0435targz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just had a quick glance over the included kernel, which is of version 2.6.29 (As expected)
It's codename is "Temporary Tasmanian Devil"
As far as I can see with this quick glance, I cannot find any Sony / Sony Ericsson specific patches that might be needed for some of the devices hardware, such as the wireless and camera. The default source from the official kernel is there.
I haven't checked it out thorough yet, but It might be as some of us suspect: Some needed patches or "addins" might not be included at all.
I cannot find any separate patch files either, nor any signs where they could be.
It simply could mean that this included kernel is pre-patched, so someone need to extract these patches by comparing it to standard/official Android Linux 2.6.29 kernel sources.
Someone might ask: -"Isn't it the case that the default/standard Android Linux kernel 2.6.29 is the proper one?"
Well if that was the case, many problems would have been solved a long time ago. We know how hard it was to get the camera, wifi, bluetooth and some other hardware to work properly, as people either needed to pull small parts out of SE's developers, or simply reverse-engineer them.
My suspicion after the quick glance over:
We're having a default Android 2.6.29 Linux kernel without patches.
There's some included code in sub-folders under vendor/semc folder. Glansing that one over, it also appear to be some default sources. Nothing that stands out. But then I'm no expert in this.
I can be completely wrong here, as I just glanced it all over. Please do correct if I'm wrong (Which I hope to be ).

Signed and wrote a few words. I hope to God that our phones could be what they were meant to be or at least could be. Good luck Omega.

voted!!
Hope for the best

thanks guys keep it up.

Interesting comment from DooMLoRD.
yes i know... Sony is ahead of others in this matter... their low end device Tapioca (ST2x/WT2x) is going to have ICS!!! and trust me its going to create a HUGE uproar by users of X10, X10 mini, X10 mini pro, X8 as they have similar hardware to Tapioca...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we have better processor and screen than rumoured Tapioca but less ram.

OmegaRED^ said:
This is for the benefit of all x10 Xperia users.
Sign this petition so we can gain any and all source or tools for our x10 from
Sony / Sony Ericsson.
This petition includes libraries for the camera, the screen or gpu and the touch input driver.
Only with your help can we truly make a difference.
http://www.change.org/petitions/sony-sony-erricson-source-code-if-any-available-for-the-x10-xperiahttp://www.change.org/petitions/sony-sony-erricson-source-code-if-any-available-for-the-x10-experia
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will this really work.
Petition signed
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium

THeLogiC said:
we have better processor and screen than rumoured Tapioca but less ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's just business. They won't relase official ICS for device which has 3 years. Of course it's possible, but then they won't sell newer devices from 2011 or 2012 line. All what they can do is give us sources - then we start magic .
BTW: I can tell that many polish people signed on this petition - I think my forum made a trick . Thank you all patriots!

Hoping this comes to life
Sent from my X10S using xda premium