Related
http://blogs.computerworld.com/17649/android_upgrades
I can't give you a better argument not to go for SE.
Thank you for the info, on the other hand i can probably find such a site for every car brand and i am still driving :lol
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
I think this phone will be quickly replaced by SE with a better higher quality device look at how many PSP models there are. They will probably hold back on updates for a newer model.
It might last a year at most before a "PSP slim" phone, Or dare I say a white model (lol)
P.S I may of had bad experience with the x!0 series owning 3 different models so my post may be a bit biased.
I had a SE Satio, which was a complete failure. Support for les then 6 months, 2 minor bug fixes within those 6 months.
The support of the X1 and the X10 and family dropped fairly quick as well. And also consider that the X10 started with outdated software already.
Why would SE change this policy?
In my opinion they stripped the company so harsch (2009/2010) of all unnescacarry business departments and personnel that they can't support the phones for to long. They just need to sell phones in masses to make profit. They can't give the support the customers asks, or demands. And customers benchmark companies and expect SE to have the same update ratio as other companies like HTC, or Samsung.
They won't give the same update ratio as other companies because they don't have the funds. Everything is focussed on sales, not the aftersales...
SonyEricsson: We won't keep doing what we are doing now! Promise!
Thanks for posting this, Bestevaer.
If, as they have promised, SonyEricsson (SE) really has turned the corner on keeping current on android versions, then the best way for them to demonstrate this newfound commitment would be to begin updating the X10 series.
Why would anyone take the gamble on SE keeping the Xperia arc updated?
If enough consumers are well informed, then SE is going to miss a whole cycle on this series of hardware upgrades. Keeping current customers satisfied should be seen as an investment on getting and keeping future customers.
I know I'll never buy another SE device if they don't keep my X10 reasonably current for the life of my two-year contract -- and I advise my "laggard" friends looking for android devices of such.
When HTC is doing such a good job keeping their devices current, why would anyone go SE?
Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
PollPixx said:
Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).
Good point there, but so far they never listened to any feedback as far as I can tell. I stopped sending them mails a long time ago as they never replied, and when they did, they completely missed my point of criticism by sending a preset marketing message
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Bestevaer said:
You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
unknown13x said:
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf
Bestevaer said:
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?
SE's standing in terms of updating their devices is no brainer. This phone however will sell for cosmetic reasons. Despite the massive outrage all over the internet, SE will still retain its market share mainly because they are still comming up with good designs.
However the news that SE devices will now get faster updates should be taken with a pinch of salt. Things don't change over night.
It all comes down to personal preference really. If you want a slick looking device; SE is the way to go. If updates matter go for HTC or Nexus.
unknown13x said:
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should see the 1% drop in marketshare in perspective. In 2009 the smartphone market grew rapidly, but SE didn't took a part of the pie. And you should (as a critical customer) think why they didn't grew as other companies.
My point is that you should not take the gamble. Buy a SE and there could be a possibility that you (again) end up with poor support, since they never ever improved there support. But you do end up with a beautifulll looking phone.....
The example of the Satio and Vivaz where just to make my point clear about the lack of support and feedback from SE. And that there policy hasn't changed thus far with the introduction of Android.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
As far as I am concerned, SE are dead. I had the X1, SE are worst for software updates. I remember getting froyo on my HTC desire a good 2-3 months before the X10 got 2.1 eclair.
SE have stated that its a fresh start, lets see if they can hold up to that promise, but after the X10, I can't trust SE anymore, i'd much rather go for HTC, Moto or even samsung...
unknown13x said:
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.
Stan.S, brilliant informative post!
I agree with all the points you raise but I think I will still actually buy the ARC if it comes to market without delay especially after seeing the latest blog video demonstrating what I think is the best camera capability of any phone (besides the nokia n8).
I currently own a HTC Legend and while it has had updates (maintenance and OS) it was annoying that the 2.2 update came after Vodafone began rolling out a version for their phones, pretty irritating especially as I had bought the phone with no contract..So it seems no one is free of bad practices..
Regarding the lack of cutting edge hardware I was slightly put off that there was no mention of dual-core, but then I remember I work as an animator for a games studio that works on well known games and its amazing what we can squeeze out of a DS.
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..
flynny said:
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
Well, the sensor they put in is certainly a level up from most on the market, however, it is again the cheaper of the two possible sensors available. I also understand that the larger (12mpix) sensor would require the phone to be thicker and have a better lens as well as a higher cost.
If SE was really into the PREMIUM market as they claim, they know that the Cybershot variations of their phones have always been beloved by consumers. X10's and the Arc certainly show that the people from the camera section have had input into the design.
This is supposed to be a flagship phone, and there is not a single component that is Outstanding, it's more like the best of the middle ground.
It's always possible that Arc will have brothers and sisters announced at MWC and a bit more differentiation will show up beyond a keyboard or size, but the constant choice of cheaper components (and the reduced internal storage) will certainly cause all the reviewers to comment on the 'below expectations of hardware available at this time' of the devices.
stan.s said:
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good post Stan.S!
If I may comment your points a little.
1. Hopefully this will change with arc. Seems like they have a deal with At&t.
2. Dont think hardware could have been so much better. They are using qualcomm hardware and their better processors are not done yet. Internal ROM could have been better though. More than 512 RAM is not necessary in my opinion.
3. From what you say about At&t, t-mobile seems a lot better
4. Same as above, Im not American so I wouldn't know
5. Again I think this will be better with arc. From what Ive seen here in Sweden, SE representatives seems to be really committed to upgrade their phones. They know they ****ed up.
6. Actually the head of the "heads" (Bert Nordberg) have said in a interview in the biggest economic newspaper here in Sweden that hardware is important and that they intend to win that race also. He said something like "its all about clock speed these days and we intend to take the lead". Its my understanding that Arc is not the über device of this year. It takes a while to plan these things and Bert probably influenced a later device. Also arc seems to be more about the looks and screen than the hardware. Its not a super highend device
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/
I like SE cause I tend to care more about hardware then software. When it comes to software I'm not looking for SE I'm looking at the great XDA developers community which is always upgrading every phone way before the manufacture does anyway.
thorstenn said:
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
7. You say that leaving iPhone is not possible, but it's not true, there are people who wish to no longer be sheep and not straight jacketed. I talked to a couple of people just today who got HTC's when they decided to sell iphones.
8. Wait, they can't put another kernel on due to the bootloader? are you implying that the bootloader runs some sort of a checksum on the kernel or checks a specific offset address for something? There's only a limited number of things that would lock it to a specific kernel.....
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
think of it..
they build great hype for a product months before the launch by strong advertising (probably spending more on ads than R&D itself) , promising a revolutionary interface with ground breaking custom interfaces....X panels for X1 (remember?) and timescape/mediascape (biggest garbage) for X10 ..both over-ambitious
just so they can differentiate from other companies..
ya they have great product design.. which initially attracts impulse buyers...they build anticipation...so we cant wait to get our hands on their phone!
and then they finally launch the product which will NEVER have the latest updates because their entire focus was on marketing the product i.e bringing it to market before competition and capturing market share.
they never really focussed on industry shaking R&D like Apple..c'mon without Apple, touchscreen was a dead market.
and without Android...Apple had a monopoly.
This is revolution....not timescape or mediascape..which are my least favourite apps...battery sucking with extremely slow response rates.
then they ll keep launching small small updates over couple of months...more like over a year...adding little features..so we dont change brand loyalty....giving the wounded customers a faint vision of hope...
finally they release a small update and the entire community goes 'wow' with excitement...like a virgin getting his first blowjob.
by that time..the phone has suffered scratches, has started showing signs of wear..which means very low re-sale value.
and meanwhile announcement for newer model is made...slimmer, sexier with more bugs which will be fixed via update over the next upcoming year.
good strategy for a short-term profit making....but they are losing brand loyalty.
i am not gonna buy SE Xperia Arc...ya its the sexiest phone on the market.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
/rant
its like they keep us jumping over small small updates like a cat does to a string which the master will never let it catch.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
epic comment
well it's true and from your perspective which one is better?
i know getting a big income is the main focus of any company but hey customers loyalty also counts. it's something i hate from sony in general, they keep pushing new tech every year and let the customer to feel outdated
Epic thread.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Couldn't have said it better myself, spot on mate!
Swyped from my ZDZ Froyo X10i
bang on, while i am happy with my x10 as it was my first droid comming from a long **** list of wm devices, i am also not going to be sticking with se, already contemplating the droid 2 global, yes se makes sexy phones but, im looking for something a little more with my next device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Funny thread
so what do you think about HTC's strategy with Desire ( Desire/HD/Z )
Just because they released a better handset after a year of the previous handset's release it doesn't mean that they do not care about brand loyalty...
so what? you want them to stick with the X10 for two years while other competitors advance with technology????
believe it or not, many will buy the ARC, even more that who bought the X10...
Next time, go buy an HTC or Motorola
and by the way, Samsung is locking their bootloader so do not buy a Samsung android so you won't end up whining like many here about unlocking it, unless you like samsung
but despite all that, I would like to thank you for the effort made by you to explain what many of us are not aware of.. it's a good practice for your uni
good luck mate with your studies
Nocturnal310 said:
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
iead1 said:
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
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Click to collapse
Grammar and syntax of the English language is not the point of XDA in MHO...
Very well written, kudos to you Nocturnal310...
@Nocturnal310:
Of course you're right. But as someone said before, you could say this about any company producing technical stuff and you would be right as well. (I expect some very negative comments on what I'm about to say...). I understand your point, but I just don't think that SE is somehow different in their approach from any other company producing consumer goods (is that right? stuff which are bought in great numbers just to be replaced by newer models...you know, we have to watch out for our English, right iead1? ). Thats quite important because we just can't expect infinite support for our product, because sooner or later (the former is more probable) it will get replaced with brand new model with brand new stuff inside making it lot more attractive. The only thing we can complain about is, that the support may have last longer... thats true. But despite all of that, I'm still not changing the brand loyalty as I just dont know what else should I buy next time. I dont like Apple and their iStuff, also don't like HTCs because of how they look. Samsung is an option, but if I should choose between Samsung and SE just by looking at the phones, SE would definitely win (and with Samsung locking their bootloaders as well, I wouldn't help myself much by buying it). You may call me a hardcore fan of SE who doesn't think about what he's buying, but thats not me. I just think that X10 was an unfortunate mistake (which I personally still love!) of SE and I really hope they will learn from it for the reasons mentioned above.
Thats my opinion and I do not force anyone to share it, but I wanted to say it, because I just don't uderstand all that poeople saying how betrayed they feel by SE.
i think SE`s problem is that they don`t really know what they do,at least so far.
they use UIQ for a while then they leave it.
they use win mo,but after x1 and x2 they desided to go for android.
but now Android is very good platform and they should find their way.i hope so.
their main mistake is that they don`t care about customers and the weak points of their products.
I must add my mustard ...
There was a time long ago, Sony Ericsson created really nice phones with a solid build quality. My x10 is 3 weeks old and is making crazy noises when twisted a bit. The whole frame is not stiff enough.
If I saw it right on arc video presentations at youtube, the crappy timescape is now a widget and it is still choppy. This uggly blue is still there. Why blue? SE colors are Green and Orange. What a bunch of stupid designers ... I think w'll have a lot of alternatives out there with lesser crappy UI-Mods.
Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's remember: they're not ceasing support, they're launching a new model and planningto lock x10 customers in outdated Android. Motorola intended to do that too, but customers did such a big buzz that they changed their minds. The bull**** about low performance on Android 2.2 is already discarded, we can see that on all the unofficially built ROMs available at xda-forums. I risk to say that even Google has his part on this entire drama. Obviously, Sony Ericsson and their UXP loaded with much more processing hunger than x10 can support is the one we should blame, because we chose to buy SE, not Google devices (which are HTC, actually ). The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
I truly hope no one takes my comments personally, since I'm just expressing my opinion as a SE consumer. I still like them, but not how they use my money.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
robbyf66 said:
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say a lot. Saying and doing are not the same.
moacyrfilho said:
The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
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Click to collapse
I think they removed the mediascape app because it was so hard to new people to find the music player and photo gallery.
just think about it:
you have a new phone, and you would like to play some music, you first go to the music player but you can't find it because there is no music icon on the menu
Grab a samsung phone and try to play some music, the player is called "Music", the video player is "Videos" and the gallery is "Gallery"
robbyf66 said:
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are comparing with 2 companies with different calibers.
Apple - every designer/ad agency/design house/design school in this world purchase their 'godly' machines for work purposes. And these macs don't come cheap, mind you. With that amount of revenue, they can afford to create an iPhone, using their 'lagless' (yeah, right) macintosh reputations to breed a colony of iZombies to support their cause.
With the iZombies having the need to own a iAmagodlyproduct, with such supporters pumping money into their pockets, they can afford to offset any losses by being nice to
Update old iPhones even if new models are out, cos they know iZombies are already impressed with them playing the nice card and that they are confident that with their good reputation and a better new phone out, A majority of iZombies who have too much money to spare will still buy it. They are just giving an aww-I understand-you-can't-afford-a-new-phone-yet-so-I-will-update-you-periodically-so-that-you-will-come-back-to-me-when-you-have-money message to the poorer parties.
Now for Sony Ericsson (or just insert any other brand names). Let me ask you. Though they are an established brand, but let me ask you, how many people will own 1 of those expensive TVs or VAIOS? Comparing with Apple, no competition.
They don't have that much extra revenue to play nice. They can only strategize and try to earn as such as possible before their products become obsolete.
It's just like people like Donald Trump, who has so much money to play with, he can just give away to some random person on the street if he wants to. But if you try doing up a business yourself, would you give away your money to charity organizations, knowing that you cannot afford to spend the money that way? Most probably not. Unless you don't mind closing down your business due to losses.
All these threads are getting sooooooo repetitive!!! There should be one big sticky for anyone who wants to ***** and complain in any way shape and form about SE. That way this form isn't flooded with every thread turning into a SE bashing thread. It really is getting tiring logging on to see what's new and the first 50 threads are people *****in about SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Lonelee - agree with much of what you say.. but it is also true that there are many many many people who go back time and time again to buy the next apple product BECAUSE they know that Apple will not leave the OS lagging behind on the old device when a new one comes out.. it's spectacularly good brand loyalty. SE (and many other) are taking a very short term view, and a missing a great opportunity to get us all on the hook for the next product..
In the UK for example, many phones bought on contract are free with a 2 yr contract tie in.. so if I know that they will look after me for 2 years, then I'll go back for more.. my contract's not due until Feb 2012.. so I'm eagerly awaiting to see their behaviour over the next 12 months!
well I m back on XDA after exiting from blackberry platform...blackberry provided me a stable messaging device for a while but as needs changed, it was very poor for browsing and getting work with attachments done.
i was at a party few weeks ago and my friend took out his Xperia Z claiming this is the best camera phone.
to his disappointment, it was the darkest blurriest pic i have seen whereas my lumia 920 took a pic with DSLR-like clarity and image characteristics.
i am not sure how much sony has improved but seems like they are still a market follower and using marketing dollars to brag about their phones that do not perform as advertised.
after having wasted my student savings on 2 of their phones, I regret and wish I had bought a better phone for my first android experience.
product lifecycle
Hi,
I am not sure if I should blame any company for moving to newer (and maybe better) products. In the android phone market we have the nearly unique situation to be able to get our hands and minds at the software which is driving the product, at least partly.
This is quite different from cars or coffeemakers.
What I would like to from Sony is that when they decide to abandon a product (eg X10), they open up the sources of drivers etc, so that interested people can maintain their products for themselves.
I can understand that they wont open up the sources for current products.
A.
Ipad3 is about to hit, and it'll have at least a 2000x1500 display. The little 4.5" android phones now have 1280x800 displays and look fabulous - plus the new ones announced at the show in January. The little 11" Macbook Air (I know, a different monster) boasts a 1400x900 display - and that was 2 years ago. And they'll get a tech refresh in April that will likely come close to doubling that. As my boss told me -- "It's all about the screen, stupid".
Half of the current run Tablets have soldered in batteries, half don't even have an SD slot. Those that do use Micro SDs and not the full SDs - which are 3x in capacity and much cheaper. The file systems are archaic, and most don't even use journaling.
Most tablets are stuck on 1GB of usable OS ram, some only 512M - circa 2007. Most come out of the factory "locked" so we can't even improve them ourselves. Any improvements are laughingly done by some pretty smart anonymous developers that are doing your job - something you should have done on the drawing board in the first place. (Give HTC an A+ for unlocking the majority of their equipment - despite the threats from ATT and Verizon lawyers). Some of the tablets are locked into cell companies contracts, and most make pitiful phones anyway.
Most are stuck on cell phone processors, with cell phone graphics chips, cell phone IO controllers, and cell phone memory controllers. None have SDDrives (Ipad3 will blow us away with those too in April - watch).
Some are narrowed down to one vendors files types for reading, and reluctantly include other reading s/w (pdfs etc) as if someone twisted their arms. And non-native formats are ALWAYS just awful on these machines (Nooks, Fires etc).
None have Linux as a base, although with enough trouble we can do it ourselves sans the majority of broken functionality (drivers don't work, bugs, lags, bluetooth, batteries etc). And most can't run in the little 1GB of RAM put in these devices anyway.
These manufacturers just don't get it. They're all about to get their collective butts kicked with the new Ipad, and they'll sit back and scratch their heads saying "Why, we didn't know you customers wanted hi-res displays - nobody told us that - it's not our fault".
Ok guys, and that includes you, Samsung. And you, Asus. And Sony and LG and HTC and all the others. You're in for the azz-kicking of your life and you were warned. You're stuck in your closed-door 3x5 room in Communist China, and your products are all ball-and-chained. Jobs was slick enough to make the China-US thing work, and it took $billions to pay off the gov'ts and build production facilities. He made it look easy - but that certainly doesn't mean just anybody can copy that same manufacturing model and make it work as well as Apple did.
It'll take you about 6 months to even come to terms with your incompetence, re-design this mess, and production is another few months after after testing. In the meantime, iPad3 will dominate for the majority of 2012. So maybe next Christmas we'll see some decent Android tablets, or at least the announcements.
Problem is, is you're terrified. You're afraid to do anything similar to what Steve did. You're scared you'll be fired next day. You have neither the capital nor the balls, nor the competence to produce decent equipment. So if I were you I'd just give it up until October - that'll give you ~1/2 year of humility to get your act together. In the meantime, please don't put out yet ANOTHER 1024x768 tablet with promises of OS upgrades someday on the shelves with fanfare. Besides, the Samsung Note cellphone makes a much better Tablet than anything you've produced to date
I can't agree more with what you posted. But posting this here, will do nothing to make things change. Also I know it isn't your intent, but your post does sound like "apple fan boy". I know that's not what your saying, its just the way it comes across.
What made HTC re-think their bootloader policy? Public/User/Developer pressure.
Create a Facebook group and get the word out. I'm all for better quality, more developer friendly devices.
I suggest Facebook as XDA has only 4 million registered users, Facebook has 845 active Million (Source)
Boy, you're right. That did sound like a SJ fanboy now that I re-read it. Thanks so much for the reflection which was right on.
So good insight - the point being that once again Apple has whipped the majority of open source into submission. Once again. And it's just as pointless this time as it has been in the past. This didn't HAVE to happen. The show in Jan should have be way ahead of Apple's power curve and beat them at their own game. That was the Android opportunity. Instead, we got things like a Razr with a bigger battery, and a boatload of maybe type announcements.
Announcements like OS upgrades - the Achilles heel of Android offerings. "Buy this now and we promise to upgrade it next week - we promise - ok"? Sign here.
Somebody mentioned on another forum that some decent quads were supposed to hit the streets around iPad3 time, I sure hope so. But my point is that now Android may be WAY behind, quad, duos, 8x or even matrixed memory. It's hard enough competing with Apple daily, much less when the judges let the Apple horses out of the gate 4 months ahead of all the rest.
A Quad? Well, cool. But what kind of quad? How about Intel? How about RISC? How about 6 or 7A batteries? How about USB3? How about flexible screens? How about firewire or even a fiber standard? But our bragging points over the holidays were these dockable semi-keyboard dual unit thingies multi-part gadgets, sigh.
Actually my point was despite Apple's reign on this whole market we Androiders' have got the best people. We've got the best engineers. The best scientists. We've got the best coders. But it's aggravating that whenever we get a head of steam, we kick our feet on the table, light up a cigar and sure enough - 6 months later Apple sneaks in the back door and forecloses on us. With all the legal fanfare and international press due such an event. These little Androids are just too good to be tossed under the bus because of no-vision like this.
You know, now that we're playing around way up in the jetstream with the big boys, we're now flying into a 200kt headwind here. Not that Apple is already enough of a headache. But NOW we've got the dam cellphone companies so tangled in greed that some feel we may as well just land till the wind dies down. Oh boy, we've got LTE with 2GB caps, with entire rooms full of cellphone company staffers (mostly in India) writing code to catch us busting limits. It's nuts.
In any event, let's don't strut around thinking that since we Android-ers are much more realistic and even sharper than the iPod crowd, that we've naturally got the lead. We don't. Blame it on Google for not policing Android maybe. Or maybe the platforms. Or the manufactures' them selves. Blame isn't the point - the point is they're about to kick our azzes again regardless of fault
Hmm, /some/ points, but I /have/ to correct a few misunderstandings...
ARM is RISC. Saying same as 'cell phone processors' isn't really fair as those cell phone processors are going to be used for the WIN8 tablets (and I suspect Apple's main OS possibly too). Something that used to trundle along at a pedestrian's pace is now capable of great visual/sound processing, decent speed in the UI, background FTP'ing, all whilst using GPS to determing where you are as you yell over the phone (using bluetooth).
Specs for iPad3 are still unknown, probably overflated, and when the devices DO land, probably missing some obvious stuff Android devices already have but WILL be there for the next version! go go goodteam upgrades!
Screens I think have hit the 'good enough for anything' rez, we're going to see varieties of designs, but that's where Android is doing great on different styles. It may have been a bit faffy for devs to make sure their apps work at various sizes/densities, but it'll pay off eventually. It's a problem Windows machines solve easily enough, and eventually, if Apple DO want to offer more choice, something they'll need to master too. There'll be bigger/faster gfx chips able to pump out more triangles, and as you correctly say, the memory busses could do with a bit more oomph to help that, but this are all problems solved on the desktop, and the chip manufacturers are doing a great job bringing faster speeds with lower power to better looking displays. Rez? Probably not going to change that much, but the contrast/ability to clearly see outdoors using these things? that'll get a bit of a bump I think yet.
I'm with you on the SD slot. Wish there were more devices using the larger slot, would give more upgrade room later. What we've got works fine for pure memory though, it's just additional storage. As to filesystems? Meh, what we've got there is fine, looks like a few people are switching to ext4, but it's a decent filesystem, battle tested and improved.
PDF's/SWF's/doc's, there's apps to handle any of that, if you even need to edit them. Tablets are great for readonly viewing of these things. I'd hate to spend too long creating too many big documents, but whatever I create on the PC should be available, and so far, it is. We'll see what Microsoft does to file formats in the future, I think with Win8 and having MSOffice come with ARM tablets, we'll see MS doing what MS do best, screwing everyone else and forcing upgrades.
None have Linux as a base? Uhm... there's a Linux kernal running away there on all the Android Tablets. Though I'd like to see the Android fork merge back one day, I don't fully understand the need for the locks to make Android fork instead of using/adapting how Linux already did that, but hope something can be done to bring it back home to the main tree.
Hirez screens, price, availability, demand. If there was an Android Tablet today offering 3kx3k, but cost 1200bucks? It'd be niche. Alas, in this world, it takes Apple to release and demo before people 'get it', and manufactures accept they need to ramp up production, for the demand. Androids been pushing up the rez, the OS supports it, the hardware can run it now, and prices aren't too off the chart, I see them coming down in price. Again, no-one knows for sure upcoming rez specs for the iPad3, the top end Android tablets (of which the latest Prime has top rez I think?) could be above/match what's coming from Cupertino.
I'm with you on the Note too. I got the Samsung Galaxy Tab that I wanted to use as a phone/tablet combo, it's taken until ICS to /really/ make it smooth to use, and the phone functionality being killed in the US was just stupid. It was a mistake that they're not making with the Note it appears, that really should have been released 6-9months ago in the US, even with a lower spec chip. The move to tabphones/phonelets? has been obvious. (and also makes me wonder if, despite Jobs saying no to it, if Apple WILL release a bigger phone/smaller tablet.). There's an obvious demand for that sort of size, it really does give you the best of both worlds.
Some challenging points you bring up, look forward to further thoughts sir!
andyharney said:
I can't agree more with what you posted. But posting this here, will do nothing to make things change. Also I know it isn't your intent, but your post does sound like "apple fan boy". I know that's not what your saying, its just the way it comes across.
What made HTC re-think their bootloader policy? Public/User/Developer pressure.
Create a Facebook group and get the word out. I'm all for better quality, more developer friendly devices.
I suggest Facebook as XDA has only 4 million registered users, Facebook has 845 active Million (Source)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/
Need i say any more
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
buckwheat.phd said:
Waaaah
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Waaaaaaah.
Irritated to learn about the launch of the 10.1 version of the Galaxy Tab 2.
Can't we users and developers urge Samsung to release the official ICS update for our GT 10.1 instead of launching product after product with very little differences? I don't feel like buying Samsung products anymore.
Sent from my GT-S5830 using xda premium
While I somewhat agree with you I think it would be a rep shame if you stooped owning their products due to the fact they are releasing alot of great, but albeit similar, products. Besides who'd want an official release when there's cyanogen. All I want off Sammy are the damn camera drivers.
Hopefully ppl will vote with their wallets but feels like Samsung are doing an Apple
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Samsung said it would release during Q1, why are people getting mad/frustrated that its not out when Q1 is not over yet? I understand if it was Q3 and still nothing!
Doomweaver said:
All I want off Sammy are the damn camera drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes! That would make me choose cm9 rather than wait for an official update.
Will we get them with the new tabs? They could be ported to our devices then.
nakedninja42 said:
Samsung said it would release during Q1, why are people getting mad/frustrated that its not out when Q1 is not over yet? I understand if it was Q3 and still nothing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might be so because ASUS seems to be doing a good job by providing regular updates. At least more than Samsung.
anirudh24seven said:
Irritated to learn about the launch of the 10.1 version of the Galaxy Tab 2.
Can't we users and developers urge Samsung to release the official ICS update for our GT 10.1 instead of launching product after product with very little differences? I don't feel like buying Samsung products anymore.
Sent from my GT-S5830 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno -- the Note 10.1 actually seems like a great idea to me! I love my 5.whatever" Note phone/tablet. That being said, I might prefer a 8.9" version (any smaller and it's no fun reading comics on it and for me 10.1 is a little largish for book-reading).
PS: Yeah, they should release an ICS update for the existing devices too.
Yeah! How dare they announce a new product! I can't believe the gall of these companies--what do they think we are? Consumers? Bah, I think that a company should be limited to releasing one product a year, and whenever they release a better product ours should be upgraded.
And you know why I'm so angry? It's because I have no idea that there's real things in the world to be angry about! I never watch the news or read a paper, or really anything other than forums and blogs! Because I pay no attention to the real world, I think that the worst thing in the world is when a multinational electronics corporation releases a new product! Don't they realize the harm they cause by designing and selling new products? Do they not see that when I buy a product, I expect that it will be the best thing available (or just announced...) for at least a decade? Oh man, I just can't understand what they're thinking. In a world like ours of total customer loyalty to brand names--In the quickly shifting category of consumer electronics--I am shocked they didn't at least send us a survey.
slack04 said:
Yeah! How dare they announce a new product! I can't believe the gall of these companies--what do they think we are? Consumers? Bah, I think that a company should be limited to releasing one product a year, and whenever they release a better product ours should be upgraded.
And you know why I'm so angry? It's because I have no idea that there's real things in the world to be angry about! I never watch the news or read a paper, or really anything other than forums and blogs! Because I pay no attention to the real world, I think that the worst thing in the world is when a multinational electronics corporation releases a new product! Don't they realize the harm they cause by designing and selling new products? Do they not see that when I buy a product, I expect that it will be the best thing available (or just announced...) for at least a decade? Oh man, I just can't understand what they're thinking. In a world like ours of total customer loyalty to brand names--In the quickly shifting category of consumer electronics--I am shocked they didn't at least send us a survey.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ouch! I just got flamed.
I have to admit it when someone makes more sense than I do.
Thing is, there is almost no reason for them to make ICS for the original 10.1 It just costs them money to make a few of their more techie customers happy. Time and time again companies have made it clear they could care less that a few people won't buy their products because they won't update software promptly.
The 10.1.5 with ICS makes sense. They barely had to do any engineering on the hardware so it was cheap, and they need ICS to attract customers to buy it. ICS now becomes profitable for them. Companies (aside from charities) exist for one reason, profit. As long as they are making that profit, they can care less what you as a customer think of them. Luckily we have a little control in what we do or don't buy which helps make companies care, but it is all for naught if they are still raking in billions each quarter. It sucks, but at the very least we have CM9
For all I care they can release 100 new Tablets this year because I will buy the one I want and won't care about the rest..
Choice is good...
x-ravin said:
Thing is, there is almost no reason for them to make ICS for the original 10.1 It just costs them money to make a few of their more techie customers happy. Time and time again companies have made it clear they could care less that a few people won't buy their products because they won't update software promptly.
The 10.1.5 with ICS makes sense. They barely had to do any engineering on the hardware so it was cheap, and they need ICS to attract customers to buy it. ICS now becomes profitable for them. Companies (aside from charities) exist for one reason, profit. As long as they are making that profit, they can care less what you as a customer think of them. Luckily we have a little control in what we do or don't buy which helps make companies care, but it is all for naught if they are still raking in billions each quarter. It sucks, but at the very least we have CM9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same thing was said with the galaxy s from 2.1 to 2.2, 2.2 to 2.3, just relax and wait for it.
10.1 and 8.9 will get the ICS, why would samsung leave is first real tablet with 6/7 months old without this major update?
I just read in another post that Samsung has to support devices for 18 months per some google agreement. So we would definitely see ICS, but who knows when?
Not info from me, just what I just read in another post.
If you can read this it was sent using my GT-P7510.
I think the figure was that 1% (not those guys) are running ICS, with so little usage it will take awhile for more quality development.
And more bugs to get worked out.... The CM stolen roms will work until then.
Also I thought dude worked for Samsung now... Perhaps he can make friends in the camera.apk department... Maybe an email like hey... you know, how about a little something for the effort.
I joke, I joke.....
Benzoman said:
I just read in another post that Samsung has to support devices for 18 months per some google agreement. So we would definitely see ICS, but who knows when?
Not info from me, just what I just read in another post.
If you can read this it was sent using my GT-P7510.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. That was announced originally at Google I/O spring 2011. That means we would qualify for the Android 5 update when that gets announced later during Q3 or late fall.
slack04 said:
And you know why I'm so angry? It's because I have no idea that there's real things in the world to be angry about! I never watch the news or read a paper, or really anything other than forums and blogs! Because I pay no attention to the real world, I think that the worst thing in the world is when a multinational electronics corporation releases a new product! Don't they realize the harm they cause by designing and selling new products? Do they not see that when I buy a product, I expect that it will be the best thing available (or just announced...) for at least a decade? Oh man, I just can't understand what they're thinking. In a world like ours of total customer loyalty to brand names--In the quickly shifting category of consumer electronics--I am shocked they didn't at least send us a survey.
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Actually customer loyalty is very low, especially with electronics, with the exception being apple, but even then its not as high as you might think. Also it would be impossible for the product to be "the best thing available for at least a decade" ... not only is computing exponential, the rate of exponential growth is itself speeding up.
Computing power doubled every 18 months in 1950, today it doubles every 11 months. That being said they could definitely make their products more upgradable, and in a sense you can do it yourself (rooting, overclocking, new ROMs) and above all they don't care as long as they are making their share holders happy.
Someone mentioned Apple earlier and say about Samsung, that choice is good. While Samsung do make great products,including much of the iPhone, I do believe Samsung could learn a lot from Apples product strategy.
The raft of new devices, like Galaxy Tab 10.1 2 which apparently isn't the real successor, only a sideways step, is an example of the lack of clarity and focus from Samsung. Then there the Galaxy Tab 7.0 plus followed by the Galaxy Tab 2. Which one follows from the original tab? Then there's rumours of the Note 10.1?
There is way too much product overlap and seemingly little focus. And with Galaxy minis and young's and aces, even the phone market seems confusing. At least we know the S is the pinnacle and the S3 won't be an S2 with ice cream sandwich and the real successor being something like a Samsung Galaxy Young Ultimate HD 4.8.
Put it like this, you want an iphone or an I pad, you get one. Like it or not, its a strong brand.
At first I thought the whole apple fanboy rage is what caused apple to release iPad2 then iPad3 in less than a year. I used to be an iOS owner, and was pretty proud of it without falling into the apple sheep or the cult that worships the half bitten apple. I had the initial 2G for both the iPhone and the iPod only to see what I was missing out, shortly then came the release for the 3G which was quickly discarded in about 4-5 months with the launch of the 3GS and the trend followed. I used to be so ENRAGED about how I as a consumer had to keep myself constantly in the mix of what was being released and If I wanted to get it with the same idea that
"This **** will last me for about a year, I mean hey ,I used my nokia for 2-3 years"
and then BOOM, the bloody mass corporates state "I am sad to say we are cutting off all support for previous Apple devices below the 3G series" that **** move made me swap to the green little buddy whom I feel I have spent my money's worth. I mean for the love of God, Apple, It's the same interface for like 4, no, 5 generations now! NOTHING in their interface has changed, just the price and look+feel.
Just when I thought that headache was over, I moved to Samsung which had the sexiest designs out of all the smartphones in the market. Purchased my first Galaxy S and Galaxy Tab 7 (Edition 1) and was proud, then development ceased for both due to developers being demanded in the latest S2 and Asus Transformer and I agreed one can't be stuck on one device permanently and so I hoped that the incoming ICS would give me some hope, then Samsung pulled another **** move and said "These following devices will not be getting ICS and Gingerbread 2.3.7 will be the last firmware" and hillariously, mines fell into that son of a gun list, and so I bought the HTC Evo 3D, same story with the development. And so I decided to play cat and mouse, grab the next "Hot item" that hit the shelves, and that was the Galaxy Tab 10.1 only to my dismay it's been less than what? 1-2months and I feel they are about to cease all support for this. Even worse? I have both the 10.1v and non V editions. **** just got real.
I am not angry, I an ENRAGED, If samsung decides to pull a Nokia stunt that releases a new bloody device EVERY SINGLE MONTH, Then fu** Samsung and the minds behind their marketing strategy. I will personally walk upto their sales rep and smash my Galaxy Tab on their faces, probably quote "NOPE SEEMS FACEUNLOCK DIDNT WORK, OH WELL"
I agree 100%..
Even Samsung admitted they are really failing in the tablet dept..
glassjosh said:
Even Samsung admitted they are really failing in the tablet dept..
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Soon it won't be just the tablet's but they would be failing their consumers hard. When you are forced to spend over $1000 or more in less than a month for a device that doesn't last in the market for 2-3 months? Ridiculous!!
The HTC One is very much looking like the next phone for me long term, but all this talk about how poor HTC is doing is making me wonder is it worth the risk if they go bust, then I guess the software would stop getting updates, warranty wouldn't be covered if things go wrong, no sell on value as well.
What are peoples' thoughts?
happysteveo said:
The HTC One is very much looking like the next phone for me long term, but all this talk about how poor HTC is doing is making me wonder is it worth the risk if they go bust, then I guess the software would stop getting updates, warranty wouldn't be covered if things go wrong, no sell on value as well.
What are peoples' thoughts?
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1) Here in the uk warranty wouldnt be an issue as the contract is with the company you purchased the phone from and not the manufacturer. I dunno how it works in other countries but we are safe this side of the pond.
2) If the development community is thriving then I wouldnt worry about updates (i plan on jumping straight to cyanogenmod if it is ever supported).
3) Sell on value would naturally be effected but thats the risk you take with anything you buy these days.
Personally I cant see HTC going under and if they do, ah well, not like im spending thousands.
You could play the Titanic theme as you toss your One off the back of a ship?
jdawglx01 said:
You could play the Titanic theme as you toss your One off the back of a ship?
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i lol'd in the office
i really cant see htc going bust anytime soon.
They are still making money , and that without the launch of the htc one which should boost them up for a bit.
Dont forget they are still the 4th largest manufactor of phones in the world.
That thought did cross my mind too but I do not think they would go bust or do a blackberry and mess things up totally.
happysteveo said:
The HTC One is very much looking like the next phone for me long term, but all this talk about how poor HTC is doing is making me wonder is it worth the risk if they go bust, then I guess the software would stop getting updates, warranty wouldn't be covered if things go wrong, no sell on value as well.
What are peoples' thoughts?
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Click to collapse
HTC isn't going busted. They are not in bankrupcy they only have lesser sales but still they earn a gross of million dollars per quarter. It's just it is low compared to other phone companies. Don't be a paranoid, the smartphone manufacturing sector is one of the most lively business today there's no way any company would go bankrupt from it. There's far too many other OEMs which has lower sales than HTC infact HTC has even higher sales compared to blackberry and LG.
GRRR .. how do you remove a thanks !! ... Fat fingers and a touchpad don't mix !!!
Of course HTC isn't going bust .. what a daft idea. Their sales have slowed per quarter year on year when the crazy economy nowadays expects constant growth. If HTC comes a respecatble third behind Samsung and Apple that will satisfy the company goals as long as they take back some more market share.
Remeber that the percentage of market share figures being shown around are dependent on the size of the market. Samsung has done an enormous job (and spent an enormous amount of money) expanding the overall market. 10% of the market 5 years ago is nowhere near as good as 5% of the current market, and that's mainly thanks to the marketing divisions of Samsung and Apple competing to take over the world ...
On the other hand, HTC has always produce a 'disruptive' product every couple of years, one which stretches the envelope in some way or another. They innovate, the others market ... There will always be a relatively small but extremely comfortable place for HTC top-end phones ... and don't forget ... they made white-box phones for other companies and carriers for years before 'coming out' ... there's still a market there too.
Worry more for Nokia, Blackberry and a few others. The likes of Samsung and LG are appliance manufacturers and Apple are computer manufacturers so they have safe business to fall back on. Once the Cellphone market starts to approach saturation they'll ease off .. but right now the race is for a decent slice of China, South America and India ... Let's see how HTC acceptance is in those regions before we start to ring any funeral bells
yes this post pisses me off as well
HTC has so far been profitable, ie: they are not yet sustaining operational losses
yes yes sales are down, but the latest numbers are just media FUD, with a new supreme SINGLE flagship almost released no one would buy their old flagships
the recent news is that they are at their lowest pre android level, surprising how they've survived and grew back then if its a near death experience
besides even if they cross into "loss", companies can survive this state for years as well
What everyone else said, plus: Absolute WORST CASE scenario, they get bought. A company with as much valuable talent, branding, IP and carrier/manufacturing partnerships as HTC doesn't "go bust". Who would buy them? Well, ASUS is a Taiwanese company that desperately wants to transition successfully into the phone market..
hamdir said:
yes this post pisses me off as well
HTC has so far been profitable, ie: they are not yet sustaining operational losses
yes yes sales are down, but the latest numbers are just media FUD, with a new supreme SINGLE flagship almost released no one would buy their old flagships
the recent news is that they are at their lowest pre android level, surprising how they've survived and grew back then if its a near death experience
besides even if they cross into "losses", companies can survive this state for years as well
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A bit OT but I have a feeling they will release more phones than just "ONE" over this year but I really hope they don't as it's just easier to maintain and support 1 phone a year rather than 6 or more.
jdawglx01 said:
You could play the Titanic theme as you toss your One off the back of a ship?
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you are so funny, man.:laugh:
While it's true that HTC's revenue and profits have been depleting for about 18 months, the company is actually doing quite well when compared to Sony, Motorola, Nokia, BlackBerry and a few others. All of those companies have been operating at a loss for quite some time, yet they have managed to stay alive.
The fact that HTC is changing its approach with the One is actually a very good sign. The company will be able to focus its software development efforts on fewer devices and throw its entire marketing budget behind one device. We will see other HTC devices launch in the coming months, but a handful of HTC execs have stated that a number of phones were killed off so that the company could make the HTC One a priority.
If things go really bad with the HTC One this year and can't find a way to reverse its downward trend, HTC will still be around for at least 2-3 years before they would need to file for bankruptcy.
Imagine if HTC did go bust...we'd have to buy plasticy toy looking phones that make toilet noises.
Wiki shows this
Revenue $9.449 billion USD
Operating income $1.496 billion USD
I think they will be ok ....
hamdir said:
yes this post pisses me off as well
HTC has so far been profitable, ie: they are not yet sustaining operational losses
yes yes sales are down, but the latest numbers are just media FUD, with a new supreme SINGLE flagship almost released no one would buy their old flagships
the recent news is that they are at their lowest pre android level, surprising how they've survived and grew back then if its a near death experience
besides even if they cross into "losses", companies can survive this state for years as well
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Click to collapse
I could not agree more. HTC made less PROFIT this quarter making it their lowest performing quarter since the nexus one days.
Remember winmo? This site used to be all HTC, their stock was rising based on decisions like branding on their own etc. The One will be the largest rollout since the Touch pro 2. They are still more profitable now since then. HTC isn't going anywhere.
Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2
I think HTC is unlikely to go bust. They took everything they learned from the Sensation line and gave us the One X. As they realized various issues, HTC rapidly adapted their phones to fix issues of the past. Things like the WiFi antenna issue will never happen again. Sense 5 is much more in line with AOSP and Holo, with much better functional addition. They brought back the aluminum unibody. They innovated new features, brought a truly good camera to the table rather than better optics and a good camera app. They added new sound hardware and truly delivered on their promise to give great sound instead of just an equalizer. The list just keeps going on.
HTC has shown that they rapidly adapt to fix their weaknesses and give customers what they want. I think that is what will ensure their survival.
The only phone company going bust this year is Blackberry
There is no chance at all but in case Google or Samsung are the potential buyer they will take care of all things
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Reckless187 said:
Imagine if HTC did go bust...we'd have to buy plasticy toy looking phones that make toilet noises.
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just awesome
by the way HTC just closed a 10 year deal with apple, a 3 year sponsorship with UEFA and has been on a hiring spree, so yea it's safe to say they are not going anywhere
don't let media FUD get to you
---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------
daleski75 said:
A bit OT but I have a feeling they will release more phones than just "ONE" over this year but I really hope they don't as it's just easier to maintain and support 1 phone a year rather than 6 or more.
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the strategy is for one supreme flagaship, no other devices for at least half a year, and with a very high chance of a One + mid year
there will definitely be other mid to low range devices, a phablet + tablet maybe
considering that even Apple is about to release two iPhones (and two ipads, ipod etc) you can't really expect a phone specific company like HTC to just go for one device, actually no body releases one device...stop dreaming
but they did fix their biggest mistake which was release three competing flagships last year (One S, X, XL)
a mid year refresh will not hurt, in fact it will persuade those considering the One mid year but tempted with newer devices specifications, all their previous mid year refresh were basically the same device with a slight speed+battery boost/ refinement to the finish/red accents! so no matter how the minority of XDA memebers like to cry about those minor refresh releases, ITS STILL THE SAME DEVICE
yesterday i saw the One X+ with someone and i asked him if i can see it, i just couldn't stop myself from laughing all those who freaked out when it was announced, its 99% the One X, HTC have the same team for what basically is the same firmware on both, in fact im all for it, refreshing the same device actually entices HTC to keep the updates flowing