Hi everyone, I have been a lurker on this forum for sometime but registered recently. I bought a Nexus one to replace my 3GS on the release day, and I must say. I absolutely adore it. I have a few questions for you guys, if anyone could shed some light on this for me it would be great.
So, basically I have been looking around the internet, various forums etc to try and grasp why the nexus one does not have smoother scrolling. By smooth I mean the actual animation attributes. I am aware that the Nexus one is fast at scrolling (and faster then the iPhone 3GS in almost every way) however, the nexus one does not handle scrolling as elegantly.
Let me define what I mean by smooth. I do not mean the hardware is not fast, as it clearly is. I mean that the GUI has not been further enhanced in the way the iphone has, to actually mimic a smooth flowing operation.
From what I have gathered on my search it could be one of a few things:
1) Android is still quite new so they have simply not gotten round to adding this yet as it is not a priority.
2) The hardware (up until this point) did not have good enough power to do so, as a result it was not included in the previous and current android releases.
3) The multitasking causes interruptions to the processor cycles during scrolling so can sometimes give a jagged/laggy scroll (I already hear you thinking: AH but this is due to other apps loading at the bottom, well the iphone scrolls exactly the same and is loading apps too).
4) The scrolling element of the UI does not utilise GPU acceleration and thus is purely relying on CPU, which means it is fast but not smooth.
My reason for asking this is simple, I am wondering what I can expect from future versions of android. I absolutely have no doubt that this platform is the future (at least for me) of mobile devices, but I would very much like to see some of the (perhaps unnecessary) GUI enhancements that the iPhone has.
My other area of interest is the market place and more specifically the creation of applications, I am by trade a UI designer, so I cant help but notice that the apps on the market place are pretty... actually lets not beat around the bush - none of them really share any common UI or style.
I am aware that the iPhone SDK provides a UI library which in turn means iPhone developers have somewhat of an aid in creating their apps, and also helps to keep native consistency with the iphone experience. Is this going to be something that changes with android (or is it even something that has started to change within the 2.1 SDK?).
When you guys read this post I hope you do not see an iPhone fanboy that has come here to bash the Android platform. I am just using my experience of a previous system to try and make sense of where the Android platform may go in the future.
These questions come out of love, not frustration or criticism. I love Android and really hope some of these issues are addressed because I feel it does everything else incredibly well. I could have made a post about all the things I love, but hey, you guys already know this . Anyways, let me know your thoughts.
I honestly hope that android doesn't get a lot of standard UI stuff, boxing in developer creativity. There is more than one way to make a good UI and I don't see the need for every app to look the same.
I was more talking about making something available to developers if they need it, incase they do not have the design skill set to do it or the resources to pay someone else to do it.
This would mean that at the least apps would look as good as the stock UI if not better (when capable developers wish to do more).
i read somewhere that the reason the iphone is so smooth at scrolling is down to its very low screen resolution, at first i was thinking nah but there certainly isnt any high end or mid tier touchscreen phone with a res as low as the iphones 320 x 480 at 163 ppi
I believe the iPhone UI uses OpenGL ES 2.0, while Android still supports something like 1.0, 1.1 or 1.3. I forget.
But, we'll have OpenGL 2.0 support soon, and I think their [Google's] roadmap has it somewhere before Android 3.0
dreamdestiny said:
i read somewhere that the reason the iphone is so smooth at scrolling is down to its very low screen resolution, at first i was thinking nah but there certainly isnt any high end or mid tier touchscreen phone with a res as low as the iphones 320 x 480 at 163 ppi
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I agree. The higher res also contributes to the slowdown (versus earlier Android devices like the G1 with much less RAM). This was especially apparent on the Droid, as it has less RAM and Android 2.0 is probably a tad less slick.
Yes, the iphone is pushing lower resolution. But, previous devices to the Nexus one where too pushing lower resolution.
I feel like I am going mad here, surely people notice the fact that iphone has built in animation styles on all scrolling, zooming - android does not. why?
I too have asked this question and haven't gotten a response. I stumbled upon this recently:http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
This is something we've investigated a couple of years ago already and that we revisit
regularly. Of course we thought of using the GPU, but there are non-trivial issues on
many Android devices (a G1-class device for instance supports only one OpenGL
context at a time, which would prevent you from using any OpenGL based app like
games or augmented reality apps.) In our past experiments we even found many
cases in which using the GPU was slower than normal rendering.
New devices might allow us to overcome the past limitations that made GPU support
a not-so-good solution.
The "choppiness" and "lagginess" you are mentioning are more often related to heavy
garbage collection than drawing performance.
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It just seems the refresh rate is slower. The garbage collection mentioned for example. As the code matures it will get better. Plus I read about an update to the Dalvik VM that should help, "Dalvik Turbo VM" It should bump up speed a good bit. Between that and the JIT performance will increase a lot.
This isn't really an issue anymore with Froyo on Nexus One-class devices. Install Froyo, then install Launcher Pro or ADW Launcher and everything is smooth as silk. App scrolling, home screen scrolling, animations, app startup times, all of these are much smoother on my Nexus One w/ Froyo than an iPhone 3G, and at least on par with a 3GS.
The web browser still can bog down a bit when rapidly scrolling complex HTML pages though (Slashdot, Engadget, etc.), seems to be something with the way Javascript events are handled since the issue more-or-less goes away if you disable Javascript. I think the scrolling algorithm needs a bit of work in browser to make it as smooth feeling as the iPhone 3G/3GS are.
rcgabriel said:
This isn't really an issue anymore with Froyo on Nexus One-class devices. Install Froyo, then install Launcher Pro or ADW Launcher and everything is smooth as silk. App scrolling, home screen scrolling, animations, app startup times, all of these are much smoother on my Nexus One w/ Froyo than an iPhone 3G, and at least on par with a 3GS.
The web browser still can bog down a bit when rapidly scrolling complex HTML pages though (Slashdot, Engadget, etc.), seems to be something with the way Javascript events are handled since the issue more-or-less goes away if you disable Javascript. I think the scrolling algorithm needs a bit of work in browser to make it as smooth feeling as the iPhone 3G/3GS are.
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Pretty much this. I noticed what OP was talking about until I put Froyo on, now everything is silky smooth.
Froyo makes scrolling ok, so no issues here
MaximReapage said:
Pretty much this. I noticed what OP was talking about until I put Froyo on, now everything is silky smooth.
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I disagree, while yes froyo is majoy improvements from 2.1 i still get lag especially on live wallpapers its horrid. this is what i said in reference to that issue:
"I agree also, Romain guy your have been listening to the community implementing such features this should be one of them to really listen to. I can't even enjoy the standard launcher i have to use launcher pro or ADW just to have smooth scrolling even in froyo(pre-release) at times. There should be a simple switch to enable or disable 3d accelerations like how ubuntu does it with Compiz. Your seriously telling me your cannot implement a auto-detection feature to see if the phone can handle it and if it can, then the 3d accel is enabled for that phone?
THIS IS BLASPHEMY!"
I understand what people are saying by downloading ADW etc but if I'm a new user buying android most people don't know about ADW for instance my ex-coworker who have a T-mobile MyTouch 3g slide her phone is horribly slow. I had to manually add launcher pro for her to feel the difference and even she is like wow what a difference. My point is most people first hand will automatically think the phone is slow and not on pair with the iPhone. Smoothness in a nutshell should come straight out stock android without the need for a replacement. just my opinion.
mykenyc said:
I disagree, while yes froyo is majoy improvements from 2.1 i still get lag especially on live wallpapers its horrid. this is what i said in reference to that issue:
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You're complaining about lag with live wallpapers? Comparing it the iPhone which DOES NOT HAVE live wallpapers? Turn them off, stop complaining, and compare apples to apples. Same goes for pretty calendar, weather, news, facebook widgets etc.
torchedlh said:
You're complaining about lag with live wallpapers? Comparing it the iPhone which DOES NOT HAVE live wallpapers? Turn them off, stop complaining, and compare apples to apples. Same goes for pretty calendar, weather, news, facebook widgets etc.
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I said especially with live wallpapers meaning even worst. Please don't tell me to stop complaining because i am not complaining I'm voicing a opinion that can benefit us all. So if your not here to help on the benefit please leave.
thanks.
mykenyc said:
I said especially with live wallpapers meaning even worst. Please don't tell me to stop complaining because i am not complaining I'm voicing a opinion that can benefit us all. So if your not here to help on the benefit please leave.
thanks.
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You're also using a pre release version of Android that is very well documented to not be ready for general usage, of course there's going to be issues with it, really goiing to have to wait for the official release to compare scrolling
quantic01 said:
Yes, the iphone is pushing lower resolution. But, previous devices to the Nexus one where too pushing lower resolution.
I feel like I am going mad here, surely people notice the fact that iphone has built in animation styles on all scrolling, zooming - android does not. why?
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The iPhone uses animations to help reduce the perception of the amount of time it takes to load things. It's eye candy to cover up a fault. The N1 just about instantly switches everything, there is no waiting, so that the few animations it does have take more time than just loading.
It's why I've turned off animations. The eye candy just wastes seconds and CPU cycles.
My biggest concern isn't the launcher since it can easily be remedied by a 3rd party launcher. I think the bigger problem is the scrolling in the web browser.
On Android because scrolling isn't a separate process given to the GPU, scrolling gets progressively slower as the number of dynamic elements(javascript and especially flash) increase.
However, on an iPhone, scrolling is independent of what elements are displayed on the website. Therefore, as the dynamic elements on a webpage increase the scrolling is still just as smooth as a simple website like these forums.
I think using the GPU for scrolling has been needed for a while now but Android really needs it with the addition of flash.
z0phi3l said:
You're also using a pre release version of Android that is very well documented to not be ready for general usage, of course there's going to be issues with it, really goiing to have to wait for the official release to compare scrolling
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regardless of the fact i think you'd be pretty naive to think the stable ota will magically be lag free. it have everything to do with launcher2 and the fact everything is handled by cpu. We have powerful phones no reason why we shouldn't be able to let GPU handle the UI...instead of defending google we should all be asking them to be able to toggle between gpu acceleration or not same way animation is toggled on and off.
I was looking at this t-mobile HD2 commercial and noticed that the tab transition from the contacts tab to the home tab was very much like the senseUI transition on android devices. It's smooth and doesn't just instantaneously jump. Is this real, or is it just a gimmick? Because mines obviously doesn't transition like that at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DogVofsUHHQ&feature=player_embedded
Of course its not going to be like the commercial, nothing ever is.
I wish it looked like that
Short of looking great it does do that though. Swiping to the right will take you to the panel to the left and vice versa.
Lazarpandar said:
I wish it looked like that
Short of looking great it does do that though. Swiping to the right will take you to the panel to the left and vice versa.
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So are you guys telling me that this transisiont we see is not real for sense 2.5 2 on WM6.5?
In the commercial it is written "SCREEN SEQUENCE COMPRESSED AND SIMULATED" so ... !!!
Yeah, transition is ... probably... fake !
Like mabold said, the screen is simulated on the commercial but in real life, it's much faster to the point where you dont see the scrolling animation at all (which I prefer).
No, it doesn't do that. It never has done that and never will. Also, it's not "much faster to the point where you dont see the scrolling animation". It just doesn't do it.
Hi
What is the difference between the web browser in Honeycomb and ICS??
I hear that there is actually a HUGE improvement in the ICS web browser from the Honeycomb one, but I would like to know what kind of difference it will make.
Thank you!
From my experience:
The UI looks pretty much the same, some minor changes in the menu but I don't think I would be able to tell them apart (I'm sure there's plenty of people on xda that disagrees on that one though).
To me the biggest difference is the speed, it feels a lot quicker and generally works really well. Sorry I can't provide you with technical details but at least this is how I experience it.
i definitely felt it was much faster as well. Main feature I like is the shortcut menu that pops up when you slide your finger from one side inward (has to be enabled in settings first). Here's a thread with the d/l.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=20641264
tgtoys said:
i definitely felt it was much faster as well. Main feature I like is the shortcut menu that pops up when you slide your finger from one side inward (has to be enabled in settings first). Here's a thread with the d/l.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=20641264
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I have always had that menu on mine, even on 3.1/3.2. You just have to enable it under labs in the browser settings.
Does any of you already have TSF Shell? I myself have it and it's probably the greatest launcher ever made. It doesn't lag at all, lots of functions. I was so surprised. It is available for 12.50$. It's definately a must have!
I was also really surprised how good it works on Desire HD.
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.tsf.shell
It is 17.00$/12.50€.
Not really worth it right now in my opinion.
Less fantastic than in the video, few things are missing.
Takes some getting used to since you can't swap between the home screens.
The lasso thing isn't really doing it for me since the 'gather' option isn't available.
Plus, once you have a nice arrangement of your apps and stuff, you better watch out not to accidentally lasso it and press arrange.
Also, re-sizing widgets doesn't work for me? Pretty annoying.
And the video had nicer looking icons but that doesn't really bother me.
they probably just hurried and released the launcher asap, and now just constantly update the launcher with all the missing bits, according to user experience
I wouldn't worry about missing functionality, that will be added quickly. I really like the concept, but it has some flaws in basic functionality - like changing home screens and lasso which is used only rarely until you setup the shell... also, no sounds when you press icons/folders... player widget displays SONGS individualy which is silly - it would be better to display artists or albums... etc etc... Pretty cool and smooth but basic functionality is missing... he better concentrate on basic functionality than on eye-candy....
markslo112 said:
Does any of you already have TSF Shell? I myself have it and it's probably the greatest launcher ever made. It doesn't lag at all, lots of functions. I was so surprised. It is available for 12.50$. It's definately a must have!
I was also really surprised how good it works on Desire HD.
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.tsf.shell
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Did you made it your self ore what?
Just not that grate.. more funktionality before i use it as daily drive...
The launcher is just missing a few features.
What I'm missing most is just a Settings function.
I mean, the lasso is awesome if you're setting up your 4 screens but after that it's annoying.
There should be a mode where lasso is disabled and you can swipe through the home screens.
Also, when I lasso like 15 apps and select Arrange or something, it jumbles them all up in an order I don't like.
It's great that you can turn apps and put them anywhere you like, but for some screens I prefer if they're all neatly lined out, which is a pain to do by hand because it enlarges the icon when you hold it a few seconds.
Kinda sucks, but that's just my opinion though.
djolebih said:
Kinda sucks, but that's just my opinion though.
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It is pretty good once you get used to it, but it needs some adjustments.
IMO, looks are simply awesome but functionality is a C at the moment.
I brought this issue up a few times already but either people dont care or dont notice it. For me this issue is a real dealbreaker and im very sad it made its way into ICS.
The problem I'm talking about is not the slower scrolling many people complain about! I'll try to explain the issue as good as possible and hope more people notice it and maybe find a workaround..
It started with xila2 (not sure about the ICS leaks as i didn't care much fir them) they changed the way scrolling behaves, it did feel smoother but messed up vertical scrolling in some apps but most noticable in the browser.
All versions before xila2 like kk5 would let you LOCK ON to text in the browser so if you scroll vertically it will NOT wobble left and right it would kinda stick to the text and you can flick up and down and dont have to worry about flicking perfectly straight. This made browsing extremely comfortable and fun.
Since xila2 they changed all that and it also made its way into the official ICS rom. Now it will NOT lock on the text anymore and when you doubletap a text and scroll, it will wobble around left and right. Also if you flick vertically now it will most likely bump into the left or right side. There is no option to change that in the browser and sadly 3rd party browsers behave the same so its probably in the code? Chrome does seem slightly better but lags and isnt as polished so its not an option..
This issue is driving me nuts and really destroys the browsing experience that used to be the best on any smartphone out there...
Whats more I really dont know why there are not more people complaining about this.. Anyway I really hope there is a way around this because I really like ICS especially the nova launcher..
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Use the existing threads, that's what they are there for, to keep all bugs/complaints/etc in one spot
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