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Hi,
I previously used the Wizard and really have to say I miss Windows Mobile meanwhile. So when I first heard about the HD I really was excited as it seemed to be the ideal gadget. Although bigger than most phones not too big, a wonderful screen and so on.
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen, but after all this would have been a minor issue. However meanwhile I am almost convinced I will not get an HD due to all the problems people reported about it.
I do not want to spend EUR 600 for something which is chipping after two days of careful usage. Similarly I am not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself. Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area) do not look very well for such a device.
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.
I bought HTC's "flagship" phone last year, the Tytn II, and all I can say is the forum here seems very reminiscent of the Kaiser forum back then - lots of people wanting to believe they've paid top dollar for the "ultimate" phone, while so many more people report problem after problem. Dissapointing video and multimedia, questionable build quality, freezing, issues with the GPS - all very familiar.
I believe HTC is trading on a reputation for quality which it no longer deserves. There's no question it's made a number of excellent devices in the past, but I don't believe it's carried that tradition on in the last year or so - their Qualcomm powered devices in particular (like the Tytn II onwards) have generally dissapointed. There's the famous driver issue of course, which I believe still affects the HD to some extent (it has some drivers, but they don't appear to be very good), but moreover the general performance of these chips just doesn't seem to match those used in previous generations, like the original Tytn.
There'll be the usual attempts to shore up HTC's unfinished efforts here with cooked ROMs for the HD soon appearing, just as they did for the Tytn II, but as before there's only so much the devs here can do without anything much to go on - they lack the raw materials in the form of drivers etc themselves. I've tried various ROMs for the Kaiser, none of them truly satisfied, and none of them genuinely improved performance IMO. It can take several months for any real progress to be made, by which time both you and the devs involved will be starting to look for the next phone anyway.
MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
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Click to collapse
..........haha
Maybe you should learn to give helpful replies respectively how to behave in a community MAK.
The Hd is my first HTC phone, so I haven't been spoiled by their previous efforts. Mine hasn't chipped and it hasn't frozen once. I'm really enjoying the phone, although it takes some tinkering to get the most out of it obviously - not perhaps a phone for the masses.
The screen looks great, but the responsiveness of the screen is nothing like (ie not as good as) the iphone of course.
Petrov.
My last five phones have all been HTC devices. I started with the SPV M500 then a Blue Angel, Universal, TyTN II and I have recently moved on to a HD. I would just like to redress the balance somewhat.
I have had no quality or reliability issues since my first HTC device, the SPV M500 nor have I had with the HD (2 weeks). All my phones have been worked hard as business devices and I consider that I have always got a very good return on my investment in them.
HTC have been at the leading edge of Windows Mobile device development and have continuously raised the bar with each new device. The HD is a fine example of this. The technology media were salivating at the thought of this device in the weeks and months leading up to its release and judging by the content of the majority of reviews they have not been disappointed. I still marvel at how good this device is and have no doubt will continue to improve as the customized ROMs start to kick in.
There is always a price to pay for being an early adopter and that price is having to accept that there will always be a relatively small amount of development issues in the early days after a product has been released (and we are very much still in the early phase of the HDs life-cycle). There has to be a trade off on the part of the manufacturer in terms of time spent testing a device prior to release and getting a device to market before the technology is overtaken by developments.
It's a fact that people who are happy and content with their devices are a lot less likely to post messages on forums stating this than those with a gripe. This should be borne in mind when weighing up opinions based on forum postings.
MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the abuse is pretty old too, there's plenty of that in the Kaiser section. It's not easy to take the ***** highground on one of the geekiest forums on earth, but if you've just been jipped on a disappointing phone and someone's pointing out your mistake, I guess it's natural to try.
drzoid said:
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen,
chipping after two days of careful usage.
not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself.
Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area).
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Vast majority of the users are extremely satisfied with the device, this is a fact.
So, you need to make your own decision. If you believe there is a device more suited to your need, you should wait for it.
I do not think you're going to find too many people agreeing with your conclusion here though.
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
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Click to collapse
Exactly.
In fact, we already have a few polls specifically for those and the results are plain for all to see.
Thanks Petrov and Tony. As I mentioned I know there are many who never experienced the stated problems, but dont you think the amount of people reporting the same problems over and over again (chipping and freezing in particular) hasnt reached already a number which might indicate an actual problem in the manufacturing process?
eaglesteve said:
so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
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Click to collapse
To be honest, at the moment I am definitely not willing to take the risk. This might change but currently all those reports about the mentioned issues do not convince me unfortunately.
eaglesteve said:
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.
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Click to collapse
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
As to the three I mentioned they are actually Windows Mobile phone, although from another manufacturer. I just mentioned they would very interesting alternatives.
patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then where does the chipping and freezing come from?
eaglesteve said:
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
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Click to collapse
Hmm. 38% have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than 25%): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?
drzoid said:
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
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Click to collapse
No, this isn't directed at you.
Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different. I agree that this is not the perfect phone and I know that one will never be created.. but if you take all the phones on the market at the moment (with all there faults) then HTC HD is amongs the top. I rarely have freezes and no scratches etc. so for me I am happy with my purchase. I also look forward to improvement that the talented developers in these forum will offer now and in the near future.
prpmlp said:
Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different.
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Click to collapse
True, but not true in terms of chipping and freezing. Nobody expects those .
Boinng said:
Hmm. More than half have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than a quarter): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can choose to interpret the result anyway you want to suit your already made up conclusion.
Vast number of people give this device 7,8,9,10 rating out of 10.
Device hanging happens but it does not necessarily bother us. I see 8% of the people bothered by it. You see 60% of people "suffer" hangs. If that pleases you, by all means.
We're not going to get a perfect device today. What we have here is the best in existence for many people because it suits their needs best. Yes, it chips and peels to varying degree, but overall still pleased with it.
I'm with mrpetrov and tonyblack on this one...
(EDIT - sorry, and all others who replied in the same vein since I started typing!)
The HD is also my first HTC device, and also my first WM device too.
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
However, the media (and to a certain extent HTC too) have hyped this phone up - typically with 'iPhone killer' tags.
Whist I'm most definately NOT going to get into that tired old argument again , it is true that there is the potential for a large number of people to stumble across the HD as being (on the face of it) a viable alternative to the iPhone.
There will be a number of those people who are disappointed - out of the box, for a novice smartphone user who simply wants to phone / text / play music / browse the web and watch videos, then the HD probably isn't as polished, or easy to use.
These people won't care about, or will be too frightened to find somewhere like this place to work out how to fix and tweak.
So. Back to the point of the OP
Do I feel like a 'paying tester'?
A bit, I guess, yes.
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
Xbox 360 - early boxes overheat and get the Red Rings of Death.
iPhone - first versions come without 3G
My previous car (8th gen UK Civic) - early models had rear suspension springs installed up side down, fuel caps got stuck closed, built in hands free mic was rubbish.
These things all got fixed over time - but there is absolutely NO way that the manufacturers hadn't noticed them when the release deadline came around.
Someone somewhere said "right then. We HAVE to release this on such and such a date"
"But boss - we haven't finished testing yet!"
"Tough. The PS3 / iPhone 3G / BMW 1 series is out there, or about to be out there, and we need to get something on the market before we loose all our customers"
"But we'll loose them anyway if it blows up!"
"That's why they pay me the big bucks sonny - now hurry up and finish testing what you can"
*
Or something along those lines anyway
Long story (yes, apols for the length of this post!) short - if you want a solid, reliable product that is relatively bug free, then don't buy it on day 1.
* Please note that this conversation was added purely for the purpose of illusttration and probably didn't take place exactly as stated here, or indeed might not have taken place at all, especially at the offices of Microsoft, Honda or Apple. Or any other large corporate who might otherwise be thinking of trying to sue me!
TTDegs said:
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
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Click to collapse
I wasnt looking for such a phone but I expect reliability and the chipping and freezing stories let me think I cant have it from the HD.
TTDegs said:
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
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Click to collapse
This is probably true, even though this doesnt make it more right.
HD compared to...
It would appear, that there seems to be a bit of both sides here.
Whilst it can be said, that some devices have really failed the user, and shortcuts appear to have been taken instead of holding back that little bit more.
The HTC club, allows certain content to be downloaded but not other due to your phone supplier. At the end of the day, small things like this tend to stick in the minds of their potential buyers.
My diamond's lasted 3 months (1 handset per month), HTC wouldnt assist, their advice buy a bigger battery, no problems reported. failure to reply to emails.
Every UK phone provider are aware of the battery short comings.
My provider actually realised the issue's with batteries, and put their hands in their pockets, bought a huge battery bank, the diamond ate it, like a beast and wanted more...
Orange UK, wrote the handset off, and agreed to supply & restart contract, due to the problems of the handset.
HTC did nothing!
I have had 4 htc devices - Orange branded M3100, best device, TyTnII, slipping, Diamond - total Avalanche, And now the HD, hope this is better, but only time will tell.
So after spending two days with the new official ROM I am dumbstruck that HTC let the Hero out the door as it was initially.
If you guys are like me you read online gadget blog reviews of new phones and you base your purchasing decisions to a lesser or greater extent on the reviews posted on these sites. The Hero received generally favorable reviews across the board BUT they were ALL tarred with the issue of the lagginess and unresponsiveness of the UI. Typical comments were "Sense UI is great but the hardware is not up to the task" etc. Hero was always compared to the iPhone and initially it was a more frustrating experience navigating the UI.
Clearly HTC have the ability to release software without these issues (new ROM proves that!) so why did they? I feel like they *really* hurt the sales and market potential of Hero and Sense UI by releasing an 'unfinished' product.
Can you imagine what Engadget's review (for instance) might have been had they reviewed a Hero with the new ROM?
I bought a Hero despite those reviews because I could see the potential in the handset but I know of others that steered clear because of the massive 'BUT...' at the end of most online reviews.
Its an opportunity missed I fear as the Hero is no longer a 'new' device.
I'm very glad that HTC have made my handset waaaaay nicer to use but seriously HTC... big, BIG ball drop!
Well... the Android phones are not really for the average Joes out there... they are for us techies and gadget lovers that love the freedom of doing cool and neat things with a phone.
We don't want to be tied up in an bondage game conducted/directed by a fruity company... and that is also why we choose a company we know.
Good enough?
You really thought we would feed a troll?
I honestly thought my post was a valid topic in a discussion forum about the HTC Hero.
@Thiesen
Wha?!? I really don't understand what your reply has got to do with my post. I think you've misunderstood the subject of my comments (perhaps if I had written in binary it might have been clearer?)
A broader acceptance of any platform is enabling and will benefit all users from 'techies' to 'average Joes'. Its not a matter of IF Android will become more mainstream but WHEN. I'm sorry if this makes you feel less special.
Troll indeed...
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry mate but i think thats total rubbish, you wouldn't buy a car knowing it didn't work and happily waste your own time feeding back problems to the manufacture to bring it up to speed. You wouldn't go out and buy a brand new state of the art car and happily put a new engine in it would you knowing the one you had paid for was crap?
AND might I ad, the research and R+D that is put in to these items is all reflected in the price of them. If HTC were giving these phones away for beta testing or what not then fine, but for a £400 handset, i totally agree with the comments made by ShiroEd.
I have had no end of nokia handsets where i have thought nokia have been guilty of the same issue, releasing what could be classed as unfinished products.
Personally, I always though the tech sites overplayed the whole lag issue on the original ROM. Yes it was there, but in my experience the net effect was quite limited and in my case it didn't really limit my ability to use the device. I'm not saying that the issue didn't (or doesn't! ) exist, just that in my opinion it was acceptable for a device of this nature (please no flames from those who disagree).
This may be because I didn't load my home screens with tons of apps, and one of the first things I did do with my Hero was to remove the People and Weather widgets, and set up Peep appropriately.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
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Click to collapse
That would presume that the iPhone isn't possessed of the same issues that the Hero is/was. Google "iphone lag" and you'll see loads of posts complaining about lag on the iPhone, even for the latest OS and the 3GS.
In addition, you will probably find that the *vast* majority of people who've purchased the Hero have never even heard of XDA-Developers, and probably will never install another ROM. We are in the minority, not the "average joe" when it comes to Hero ownership!
Whilst I disagree with the OP, I don't think he was trolling.
Regards,
Dave
Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed with crash. Thats just rubbish.
Entirely valid topic, and entirely valid point. Nothing remotely troll like about it.
Regardless of the people on this site, the Hero is definitely aimed at the average consumer, as a direct competitor in the iPhone market. Hence the multimedia, Facebook, etc.
Rushed to market I agree, but no idea why... Could just be lack of QA.
Many of the bugs reported here and elsewhere have been met with surprise by HTC, as if they really didnt know they existed. Do they not have a QA department that actually uses the phones in real life? Takes them home, plays with them, uses them all day and night to report the bugs?
Still, the update is great, the phone is flying now. If they could just sort out the crappy contact photo issue, the album caching, and the horrendous lack of bluetooth file transfer, I'd be a happy chap..
I think they shipped out the preview models and early review versions to people in the hope that they'd ignore any slowdown. Most of the review sites seem to have mentioned this in some form, saying that it can be a bit laggy but the final release could be good and the software shows potential - obviously it was never fixed for the first release.
To be fair, we're all early testers for the new HTC interface. If the Hero sells well and works well for everyone then we'll obviously be getting the same thing in future phones.
I don't think HTC is expecting any particular phone to be the next killer phone, they're just working on improvements with each new model.
While it does not make it ok... it seems to be the norm these days to get the product out and iron out bugs in a later release. As long as the quality is respectable, which I feel it was in this case, I can live with it. Particularly since the alternative would be to make do with buying an older model or waiting longer for the handset.
Zuber
Just give us an example of one single gadget that was not rushed out of the door!
The iPhone? Hellooo, the original iPhone didn't even have 3G. Have you ever tried GPRS speed (Go to wireless settings and pick "2G only"), not even funny. Talk about being rushed out of the door!
and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released! So yes may have been rushed out the door but no financial gain in the long run.
Was this a free upgrade that did not involve commuting to a contract ?
If not, then its not free...
Zuber
the handsets weren't free in the first place... you want to split hairs then fine.
The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber
Zuber said:
The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber
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Click to collapse
Agreed However i thought it wasn't a bad deal as i have always thought the handsets were a rip off...coming to think of it the tariffs are aswell. I work for network rail and get 30% off all o2 shop tariffs and i still opted for the hero on orange which was a miles better deal!
(sorry for the partial hi-jack! )
crash_194 said:
and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released!
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Click to collapse
Free upgrade! Just sign on for another 12 months of the 60+EUR/month (AT&T US) plan
Ok, I was one of the early adoptors of Hero. I got it right after its launch and I didnt really had too many complains about the device.
I never ever bought any HTC phone hoping it to be perfect. I always bought HTC knowing it will not be a perfect device out of box but community efforts will make it much much better device over time.
This applies to WinMo devices, and android. Why do we have xda here???
If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.
I don't think HTC rushed the phone out the door. The software was good enough so the phone functioned as a phone. It's a smartphone designed with the capability to upgrade the software. As long as the hardware is good quality, then you can work with the software and polish it as you go along.
I never really noticed the lag - it's only put to shame when you compare it with the new software. Look at the problems people are having with the iPhone 3.1 software release and you should be thankful that HTC have actually first delivered useable phone software and then improved it only a month after release. And HTC got some nice innovations to boot with the first release. They were perhaps a bit ambitious with the first release - where the phone did a lot of things when it first came out of sleep or switched screens, including the clock "flipping" animation.
RaptorRVL said:
If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of these bugs are quite known more or less right out of the box, for instance logging into the market, you couldn't do this unless you actually entered your google credentials when you first setup the phone.
People are going to compare the Hero with the likes of the iPhone, it's the only comparable handset out on the market at the moment. But what i'm afraid of is the lack of future support for the Hero, as yet another handset is on the horizon from HTC. OK, maybe Apple have got it right in respect of only having to supporting one handset (and very simalar firmwares, agreed) which means more time focusing on bug fixes and upgrades.
I hope HTC do not put the Hero to the back of the pile and focus on new handsets
I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...
agrabren said:
I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...
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Click to collapse
thanks man!
am i sad about the delay? yeah a little. but i respect Nvidia as a company and I know they can deliver. and if they need an extra month(or 4) to do so, im perfectly ok with it. from the gpu's to the specs to the videos, websites and drivers.. i love almost everything about Nvidia and a botched release date is NOT going to make me cancel my pre-order.
I hope nvidia uses this time to add/optimize a few extra streamable games
Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..
I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.
Evo_Shift said:
I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.
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Click to collapse
The 6/30 release date was because we listed "by the end of June" as our target launch date before we made had set a hard launch date. So GameStop did the obvious: June has 30 days, so it ships June 30th.
gigsaw said:
Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My future on the EVO 3D is on a feature-by-feature basis. As was pointed out accurately, since I don't run the OS as a daily, I don't see the issues like I did when it was my primary device.
I hate to ask this, but it seems the N9 community leaves a lot to be desired on XDA. There seems to be very little development and conversation.
For instance, the 5.0.1 update just came out and there is very little conversation on something that will likely fix a few of the bugs we see on our N9.
I certainly appreciate the developers, experts and general enthusiasts that do take part. Is there another site with more activity?
I believe there are so far very few owners.
This is a new product, things will pick up.
There are people complaining about light bleeding and battery life.
I can say I feel the same way. Wondering why there is so little going on around here.
I got my N5 day one and don't remember that board being this quiet/slow.
Count me in on that too. This is definently the most quite I've experienced in a forum, guessing that some of my old communities still are more active than this. I thougt people would be flocking to the N9, but I guess the mixed reviews put them off.
Smashed down on the mighty Nexus 9
Gormsen said:
Count me in on that too. This is definently the most quite I've experienced in a forum, guessing that some of my old communities still are more active than this. I thougt people would be flocking to the N9, but I guess the mixed reviews put them off.
Smashed down on the mighty Nexus 9
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Click to collapse
I agree. It's slower than I expected and disappointing. I hope that once the major roms get their kinks worked out and developers get more comfortable with the 64 bit architecture that there will be more development.
Gormsen said:
but I guess the mixed reviews put them off.
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Click to collapse
It's really unfortunate. I won't excuse the various hardware issues, but I actually look forward to the opportunity to improve the software of my N9 using ROMs and kernels. That's why I love android and come to XDA.
I can't help but feeling that the N9 review and subsequent comparison with the iPad over at that android-enthusiast site (not sure whether I'm allowed to say the name, but I think many of you know which site I'm referring to) directly impacted the popularity of this device within the android community. I expect mainstream sites to bash Nexus devices and make endless comparisons to Apple products, but it hit pretty hard coming from an Android site. When a site devoted to all things Android basically tells readers to buy an iPad instead, the community is bound to lose interest.
At the risk of assigning too much credit to that review, I'm becoming convinced that it has set off some sort of "change" in the Android community. More and more, I'm seeing individuals that were likely Android-enthusiasts like myself write off the N9 and Lollipop because of that review. It's like they forgot why they loved Android to begin with. We have what may be the first device with a processor and GPU as powerful or more powerful than the latest iPad, and no one wants to touch it. Just look at the Batterylife thread: all you see is rampant comparisons to the iPad. Why is it suddenly so important that an Android device's battery life match an Apple device's? Why not compare its battery life to other Android tablets? Why is the decision regarding which tablet to purchase suddenly only between the N9 and an iPad? What about all the other Android tablets? It's like they don't exist. (And I don't buy that it's the aspect ratio. This obsession with the aspect ratio has set off a false narrative that the N9 is the only true Android alternative to the iPad - as if Samsung and Sony wouldn't rather folks buy their tablets instead of Apple's). This situation is par for the course within the mainstream tech community, but not normally at Android enthusiast sites and XDA.
Anyway...sorry...just had to rant for a bit.
cor_mann said:
It's really unfortunate. I won't excuse the various hardware issues, but I actually look forward to the opportunity to improve the software of my N9 using ROMs and kernels. That's why I love android and come to XDA.
I can't help but feeling that the N9 review and subsequent comparison with the iPad over at that android-enthusiast site (not sure whether I'm allowed to say the name, but I think many of you know which site I'm referring to) directly impacted the popularity of this device within the android community. I expect mainstream sites to bash Nexus devices and make endless comparisons to Apple products, but it hit pretty hard coming from an Android site. When a site devoted to all things Android basically tells readers to buy an iPad instead, the community is bound to lose interest.
At the risk of assigning too much credit to that review, I'm becoming convinced that it has set off some sort of "change" in the Android community. More and more, I'm seeing individuals that were likely Android-enthusiasts like myself write off the N9 and Lollipop because of that review. It's like they forgot why they loved Android to begin with. We have what may be the first device with a processor and GPU as powerful or more powerful than the latest iPad, and no one wants to touch it. Just look at the Batterylife thread: all you see is rampant comparisons to the iPad. Why is it suddenly so important that an Android device's battery life match an Apple device's? Why not compare its battery life to other Android tablets? Why is the decision regarding which tablet to purchase suddenly only between the N9 and an iPad? What about all the other Android tablets? It's like they don't exist. (And I don't buy that it's the aspect ratio. This obsession with the aspect ratio has set off a false narrative that the N9 is the only true Android alternative to the iPad - as if Samsung and Sony wouldn't rather folks buy their tablets instead of Apple's). This situation is par for the course within the mainstream tech community, but not normally at Android enthusiast sites and XDA.
Anyway...sorry...just had to rant for a bit.
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Click to collapse
Who cares if it's more powerful than an iPad when apps aren't there to fully use it. Sure. In time. Same story. I'm a experienced Android user. Who just got an iPad to test things out. Color me surprised. The sites weren't bashing the N9 to just bash it. They were talking truth. Whether that hurts you or not, it's mostly facts from my experience of going through 3 replacements. Battery life doesn't compare to my Nexus 7. It's more comparable to a phone battery life. Only a fool with no choice would accept that. I WANT to love it. Just like what MKBHD said. Maybe some issues will get worked out. Many are returning it too. Devs. Well. They're in a mix bag and trail of thought now. But it's not worth the high price anymore.
ram130 said:
Who cares if it's more powerful than an iPad when apps aren't there to fully use it. Sure. In time. Same story. I'm a experienced Android user. Who just got an iPad to test things out. Color me surprised. The sites weren't bashing the N9 to just bash it. They were talking truth. Whether that hurts you or not, it's mostly facts from my experience of going through 3 replacements. Battery life doesn't compare to my Nexus 7. It's more comparable to a phone battery life. Only a fool with no choice would accept that. I WANT to love it. Just like what MKBHD said. Maybe some issues will get worked out. Many are returning it too. Devs. Well. They're in a mix bag and trail of thought now. But it's not worth the high price anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who's "truth" were they talking? Certainly not mine. I have very few of the issues mentioned in the reviews - not that all of the reviews bashed it. I fully acknowledge that it may be your "truth" (and even the reviewers'), but it does not necessarily represent everyone's. I never generalized my experience to the point that it represents anyone's other than my own - nor should you. I understand your frustration, but I don't share it. I may be a "fool", but I guess ignorance is bliss in this case.
To answer your question: I care that it's powerful. Android devices have always been a step behind in this department. I was pretty excited to see that an Android device might actually catch up. I am also willing to take the risk that the apps will catch up. That said, I respect the fact that you may not be (but I'd imagine the apps are the least of your concerns with the various hardware issues).
And why do you assume that I'm offended that you might prefer the iPad? The iPad is a fantastic device. It doesn't surprise me that anyone might prefer it. My "observation" is merely that some discussions at a forums dedicated to the N9 (and Android enthusiast sites) have been uncharacteristically dominated by references and comparisons to the iPad vice other Android tablets.
I apologize if I wasn't clear. I am not concerned with the "bashing", as you put it. Bash away. My point is that the discussions at sites dedicated to Android devices (and this forum) have taken on a different tone than with previous devices, IMHO. Go look at the reviews on the various Android sites and tell me how often per review they directly compare a device to an Apple device. These are Android enthusiast sites. One would naturally expect comparisons between and among Android devices, which is how it's generally been in the past. How is it not noteworthy that one of these sites took it upon itself to dedicate a long point-by-point comparison article to the N9 and Air 2, especially after its review was already littered with comparisons? It takes only a modicum of reason to realize that most people peruse Android enthusiast sites to read about Android devices. Not that Android and Apple enthusiasts are mutually exclusive., but there are scores of mainstream tech sites that provides ample comparisons between devices of all types - not to mention sites dedicated specifically to Apple devices.
ram130 said:
Who cares if it's more powerful than an iPad when apps aren't there to fully use it. Sure. In time. Same story. I'm a experienced Android user. Who just got an iPad to test things out. Color me surprised. The sites weren't bashing the N9 to just bash it. They were talking truth. Whether that hurts you or not, it's mostly facts from my experience of going through 3 replacements. Battery life doesn't compare to my Nexus 7. It's more comparable to a phone battery life. Only a fool with no choice would accept that. I WANT to love it. Just like what MKBHD said. Maybe some issues will get worked out. Many are returning it too. Devs. Well. They're in a mix bag and trail of thought now. But it's not worth the high price anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What site is bashing the Nexus 9, none I read.
The reviews I read do not give it glowing reviews but do not bash it either.
Here is an example of a review,
http://www.engadget.com/products/htc/nexus/9/
As far as battery life,
I am a fool.....
The average for battery life is 8 out 10, lots of fools I guess.
The Nexus 9 is not the Nexus 7 or iPad, I wish people stop comparing two unrelated products.
It took awhile for the 2013 N7 to get ANY development, and even longer for the N10. There just isn't a huge market for Android tablets.
cor_mann said:
Who's "truth" were they talking? Certainly not mine. I have very few of the issues mentioned in the reviews - not that all of the reviews bashed it. I fully acknowledge that it may be your "truth" (and even the reviewers'), but it does not necessarily represent everyone's. I never generalized my experience to the point that it represents anyone's other than my own - nor should you. I understand your frustration, but I don't share it. I may be a "fool", but I guess ignorance is bliss in this case.
To answer your question: I care that it's powerful. Android devices have always been a step behind in this department. I was pretty excited to see that an Android device might actually catch up. I am also willing to take the risk that the apps will catch up. That said, I respect the fact that you may not be (but I'd imagine the apps are the least of your concerns with the various hardware issues).
And why do you assume that I'm offended that you might prefer the iPad? The iPad is a fantastic device. It doesn't surprise me that anyone might prefer it. My "observation" is merely that some discussions at a forums dedicated to the N9 (and Android enthusiast sites) have been uncharacteristically dominated by references and comparisons to the iPad vice other Android tablets.
I apologize if I wasn't clear. I am not concerned with the "bashing", as you put it. Bash away. My point is that the discussions at sites dedicated to Android devices (and this forum) have taken on a different tone than with previous devices, IMHO. Go look at the reviews on the various Android sites and tell me how often per review they directly compare a device to an Apple device. These are Android enthusiast sites. One would naturally expect comparisons between and among Android devices, which is how it's generally been in the past. How is it not noteworthy that one of these sites took it upon itself to dedicate a long point-by-point comparison article to the N9 and Air 2, especially after its review was already littered with comparisons? It takes only a modicum of reason to realize that most people peruse Android enthusiast sites to read about Android devices. Not that Android and Apple enthusiasts are mutually exclusive., but there are scores of mainstream tech sites that provides ample comparisons between devices of all types - not to mention sites dedicated specifically to Apple devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. I did. Didn't meant it has completely saying it's bad. So I take back my choice of words. Thanks. I'm hopeful the Android tablet will rule. I've read the reviews too. Even so it will help push tablet apps. But I'm patient. Just wish Google took more attention to detail.
AstroDigital said:
What site is bashing the Nexus 9, none I read.
The reviews I read do not give it glowing reviews but do not bash it either.
Here is an example of a review,
http://www.engadget.com/products/htc/nexus/9/
As far as battery life,
I am a fool.....
The average for battery life is 8 out 10, lots of fools I guess.
The Nexus 9 is not the Nexus 7 or iPad, I wish people stop comparing two unrelated products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well If I got that I'd be good. But I don't use my tablet for video.
I too have been surprised with the lack of development on this device. I understand it is a new architecture, being 64 bit, but how about a stock rooted rom?
That is usually the first thing to come out, but I guess we don't have a developer with the device to be able to cook up a stock, rooted rom? What we need to do is get together and donate a device to @scrosler. He is a beast at busting out stock roms for the N7 within minutes it seems!
well, let me throw in a few feelings on this
you can go look at rootzwiki, hahaha a joke, they almost dont exist and barely have any news , let alone devs anymore. when is the last time you say a news blog point to rootz.
its finals time for school, i personally will be taking my calculus final in a few hours, so i dont have time to dive into my N9's new update.
the N9 is a new device, and google is releasing a new AOSP build almost weekly, go have a look at slim roms gerrit , and you will see the amount of work they have been doing for the source. (thought not the n9 yet)
there are way to many posts here of complaints, and statistically thats what happens, people are more likely to complain and post negative things, and not so much positive if its working as expected. i have a very nicely working model, and have no reason to RMA it because the buttons are flush. with no screen bleed or overheating issues.
i also dont feel the need to whine and complain about every little thing like im entitled to perfection . (damn kids today) We have come a long way in devices since my first hand held computer (which still works) the tandy pc-8. and now i have devices which were only a scifi prop a mere 10 years ago.
the new version of the OS, its changes to ART, and core linux behaviour, are causing some devs to to have to dig into new programming books, and alot more source code than had remained the same base for so many years. so i already knew not to expect drastic and fast changes to the newer builds.
it will happen, but its only been a month since i received my device, and hell, the protective cases are not even here yet. ( i found development for the n7 did not get going heavily for at least 2 months after release.
as for attitude on this site, it will happen when one nerd tries to outnerd another, feeling like everyone should already be up to snuff on how to use a editor to edit their settings.db, thats not reality, every single person here was a noob at one time or another, and got help from someone to learn their skill, maybe posters will try to remember that. if you dont have a question, or an answer, think about the reason you are posting, if its to bash someone asking why they cant get a fastboot command to work, help them. we have all left a ";" out at the end of our code at one time or another.
chainfire has been one hell of a bum busting dev, and everyone should toss a few beer/coffee bucks in his direction. i feel he kickstarted the n9's life.
What ever it is, I joined the nexus 9 family. I will be getting the tablet this weekend.
ram130 said:
Great points. I did. Didn't meant it has completely saying it's bad. So I take back my choice of words. Thanks. I'm hopeful the Android tablet will rule. I've read the reviews too. Even so it will help push tablet apps. But I'm patient. Just wish Google took more attention to detail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I apologize for sounding snarky. I don't want to minimize your frustrations. I can see that you're an android enthusiast (I probably would have given up on finding a quality unit well before you do/did). In many ways, your willingness to share your criticisms may help push Google to address some of the glaring issues with Android and the N9's hardware. I shouldn't have referenced the batterylife thread, because I don't want people to think that it's only their comments that have led to my rant. It's a combination of things.
This probably sounds silly, but I like to think of us android enthusiasts as the people who habitually root for the underdog. We look for virtues (humbleness, etc) in the teams that get completely punished by the opposition. I'm a Redskins fan (sorry...very American reference), so I feel this oh-too-keenly. I know this sounds silly since Google is a multi-billion dollar company, but in the world of tech, Android devices are still perceived as inferior to Apple devices. In other words, they are the underdog.
I get that we shell out hard-earned money for these devices so we deserve to be taken care of. But I feel like it's the intangibles that Android brings to the table - even at its worst - that attract me (customization, more openness, freedom, etc.). I feel like the Android community shares this feeling. I can come to these sites and read/discuss Android devices without the inevitable "just buy an Apple [insert device here]" refrain. I go to Apple sites to read about Apple (or the mainstream tech sites). For me, Android is not about the "perfect" phone or tablet. It's about the process of making it better, which naturally relies on help from people who are much more skilled and knowledgeable than myself. I don't frequent Apple forums much, but I cannot imagine they have the same feeling of community that Android users have. Our developers spend their precious time making people's lives - whom they don't know from Adam - a little bit better at virtually no cost to us - much like Linux and other open-source devs do. Where else in our lives does that happen.
Rightly or wrongly, I feel like the brouhaha caused by some Android sites' uncharacteristic iPad-like expectations for the N9 have directly or indirectly weakened the community response to the N9. I don't want to see people simply give up on the N9 because some Android reviewers implied that it's just better to get an iPad.
mrshades812 said:
I too have been surprised with the lack of development on this device. I understand it is a new architecture, being 64 bit, but how about a stock rooted rom?
That is usually the first thing to come out, but I guess we don't have a developer with the device to be able to cook up a stock, rooted rom? What we need to do is get together and donate a device to @scrosler. He is a beast at busting out stock roms for the N7 within minutes it seems!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would only take 5 minutes but what's the point? You're on the stock ROM, if you want to flash something you already have recovery, literally you just download this and flash it. Rooted stock ROM. With a nexus you always have googles images to flash. If you have recovery rooting them is only a flash away.
I'm not being smart, I'm seriously asking is that something people actually want?
cor_mann said:
I apologize for sounding snarky. I don't want to minimize your frustrations. I can see that you're an android enthusiast (I probably would have given up on finding a quality unit well before you do/did). In many ways, your willingness to share your criticisms may help push Google to address some of the glaring issues with Android and the N9's hardware. I shouldn't have referenced the batterylife thread, because I don't want people to think that it's only their comments that have led to my rant. It's a combination of things.
This probably sounds silly, but I like to think of us android enthusiasts as the people who habitually root for the underdog. We look for virtues (humbleness, etc) in the teams that get completely punished by the opposition. I'm a Redskins fan (sorry...very American reference), so I feel this oh-too-keenly. I know this sounds silly since Google is a multi-billion dollar company, but in the world of tech, Android devices are still perceived as inferior to Apple devices. In other words, they are the underdog.
I get that we shell out hard-earned money for these devices so we deserve to be taken care of. But I feel like it's the intangibles that Android brings to the table - even at its worst - that attract me (customization, more openness, freedom, etc.). I feel like the Android community shares this feeling. I can come to these sites and read/discuss Android devices without the inevitable "just buy an Apple [insert device here]" refrain. I go to Apple sites to read about Apple (or the mainstream tech sites). For me, Android is not about the "perfect" phone or tablet. It's about the process of making it better, which naturally relies on help from people who are much more skilled and knowledgeable than myself. I don't frequent Apple forums much, but I cannot imagine they have the same feeling of community that Android users have. Our developers spend their precious time making people's lives - whom they don't know from Adam - a little bit better at virtually no cost to us - much like Linux and other open-source devs do. Where else in our lives does that happen.
Rightly or wrongly, I feel like the brouhaha caused by some Android sites' uncharacteristic iPad-like expectations for the N9 have directly or indirectly weakened the community response to the N9. I don't want to see people simply give up on the N9 because some Android reviewers implied that it's just better to get an iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate, I've read all you've said, and I have to say that I agree with you all the way. You really hit the nail on it's head. When I got my first Android it was the HTC Wildfire, horrible device, but when I heard about what rooting was and what it could do I got exited! There was a possibility to make it better.. This feeling continued through my Desire S and One X. But when I got the Nexus 5, it sort of halted. I got an amazing device without much hazzle and now on the OnePlus One I'm running stock rooted.. The excitement is gone.. But now we have the opportunity once again. A device which leaves much to be improved and optimized, just like the old days. I, for one, am really looking forward to see this beast reach its full potential and I'm enjoying the ride to get there
Smashed down on the mighty Nexus 9
The key issue is that the tablet market is saturated now... Tablets are actually on a downswing currently (even with iPads, etc.). With the recent introduction and trend towards larger phones, the lines become further blurred.
I think the slow adoption of the N9 is not only impacted by this downswing, but also add in the price point it's coming in at compared to the various competing tablets. Add in the wildly varying reviews (though most of them are fairly consistent in that lollipop is great, the hardware is sufficient, but most are disappointed in one aspect or another)... I'm not surprised at the low adoption rate to-date with the tablet. MKBHDs review echoes my issues perfectly... Software is great... Hardware is ok but it needs to drop in price...
I've returned my unit "for now" until the price drops and, hopefully in the meantime, the nitpicks on the hardware can be addressed with the build quality.
I expect once the LTE version comes out we will see a price drop and hopefully the QC is in check by then .... At that point I'll be in the market again to buy it (hopefully for $100-$200 cheaper).
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
di11igaf said:
It would only take 5 minutes but what's the point? You're on the stock ROM, if you want to flash something you already have recovery, literally you just download this and flash it. Rooted stock ROM. With a nexus you always have googles images to flash. If you have recovery rooting them is only a flash away.
I'm not being smart, I'm seriously asking is that something people actually want?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you missed the point. The topic was community, so I was commenting on the lack of even a stock rom.
Smashed on the N9
jsgiv said:
I think the slow adoption of the N9 is not only impacted by this downswing, but also add in the price point it's coming in at compared to the various competing tablets. Add in the wildly varying reviews (though most of them are fairly consistent in that lollipop is great, the hardware is sufficient, but most are disappointed in one aspect or another)... I'm not surprised at the low adoption rate to-date with the tablet. MKBHDs review echoes my issues perfectly... Software is great... Hardware is ok but it needs to drop in price...
I've returned my unit "for now" until the price drops and, hopefully in the meantime, the nitpicks on the hardware can be addressed with the build quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the pricepoint is what drove some of the comparison with the ipads. I, like many of you, have waited a long time for the 9 to come out. I even set aside the cash to pick up the 32 gig even though it was a lot higher priced than i thought it was going to be. I wanted this to be my first tablet.
I had purchased a 1st Gen 7 for my wife for Christmas two years ago and she loves that thing. Once I started seeing the negative reviews and posts about the poor build quality I reconsidered.
So on Black Friday I jumped on the $199 8.4 tab pro deal. Great little tablet for the money But I sure wanted to join the Nexus Club. Maybe later when the price comes down and they get some of the bugs worked out it will be worth the premium.
I been a member here for many years and the board has two main purposes customization (rooting, kernels ... etc) and support.
There are few things people should keep in mind.
Few people create a thread and say this device is great.
People that have issues either imaginary (and yes some faults people report in my opinion are imaginary) or legit, may think every device is defective.
This advise please take to all threads not just Pixel C, read the threads but please keep in mind any device you buy from anybody will have strengths and weaknesses, do not let a few negative threads turn you off from purchasing.
Well said, I have 2 pixels from day one no issues and they are really the best tablet I have ever owned hands down
(I've had the following: HP touchpad, nexus 7, nexus 10, nexus 9, Sony z4 tablet, nothing has come close)
We made should make a single topic thread for all issues and everyone just post there instead....
I've had zero problems also. Felt bad for those who are having difficulties.
I am loving this device. I was running with an iPad Air before this and the experice with some applications not being optimized is very overhyped here.
No problems here! Loving it.
I think this is the nicest tablet I have ever owned and I have had quite a few. It's build quality is unmatched outside of Apple. I personally don't give two hoots and a holler about multi window or productivity nonsense. I read or play games on my tablet when I am taking a crap and watch media when I am on an airplane. It works great for this. If you want something for productivity, buy a Surface or a laptop. The complaint about the lack of tablet optimized software is moot to me because mediocre tablet optimization on Android is still better than hating my life with Apple's garbage OS, development ecosystem, active suppression of end user firmware modification, and corporate philosophy. I have not had the problems some people have reported with Wifi and the touchscreen, but it is my understanding that both issues have been fixed with the February security update.
oRAirwolf said:
I have not had the problems some people have reported with Wifi and the touchscreen, but it is my understanding that both issues have been fixed with the February security update.
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This is definitely good news. But bad news for my bank account. I've been waiting for awhile just to see some more in depth analysis and see if the kinks get worked out. This tablet is EXACTLY what I've been waiting for.
What a bunch of bull! One of the most reputable sites on the net, anandtech has advised everyone, including Google fans to stay clear of the Pixel C. I've noticed some shills taking over the wifi thread on the Google forums too, claiming it wasn't bad or did not exist at all.
If you want to waste $500+ please go ahead and buy the the Pixel Crap.
undertaker2k14 said:
What a bunch of bull! One of the most reputable sites on the net, anandtech has advised everyone, including Google fans to stay clear of the Pixel C. I've noticed some shills taking over the wifi thread on the Google forums too, claiming it wasn't bad or did not exist at all.
If you want to waste $500+ please go ahead and buy the the Pixel Crap.
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And here I thought andantech praised the devices hardware, and was hesitant to recommend ANY android tablet until the software takes better advantage of the hardware.
I am here because I am considering selling my ipad air 2 for this device. I love android, and moving from my 6p, or even my surfacebook, makes me see the flaws in iOS. Yes it has great apps, but as a whole it lacks the robust features of the other two platforms.
Its very strange, some people claim to have issues (and get very agitated about them), others have lots of praise. No problems from here, except the questionable developer-friendly nature of the device today (although I'm not necessarily unhappy that the OS is more CR-OS than Android).
AstroDigital said:
I been a member here for many years and the board has two main purposes customization (rooting, kernels ... etc) and support.
There are few things people should keep in mind.
Few people create a thread and say this device is great.
People that have issues either imaginary (and yes some faults people report in my opinion are imaginary) or legit, may think every device is defective.
This advise please take to all threads not just Pixel C, read the threads but please keep in mind any device you buy from anybody will have strengths and weaknesses, do not let a few negative threads turn you off from purchasing.
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Click to collapse
After 3 Samsungs and wanting to keep a 10" plus tablet as i am a full grown man I switched to Pixel C.
no complaints at all.
great tablet.
Anandtech's problems with wifi and the touchscreen are resolved with the latest update.
oRAirwolf said:
Anandtech's problems with wifi and the touchscreen are resolved with the latest update.
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I thought the February OTA only addressed the touchscreen issue. At least that's what "Orrin" (Google rep) said on the product forum when I checked it a couple days ago. He said they are still working on the WiFi issue.
charesa39 said:
I thought the February OTA only addressed the touchscreen issue. At least that's what "Orrin" (Google rep) said on the product forum when I checked it a couple days ago. He said they are still working on the WiFi issue.
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My bad then, sorry.
oRAirwolf said:
My bad then, sorry.
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It's all good.
I always tend to agree with the sentiments in the OPs post, in that rarely do you see people making threads just to praise a device. But as soon as the tiniest issue arises, people never fail to make a thread and complain. I've seen these forums light up with issues since I've started pre-ordering Nexus phones back with the Nexus 5. Nexus 6 and 6P were pretty much the same exact thing, with people claiming they were flawed. However, I never had any issues with my devices. I think what makes this device (and it's apparent issues) different in my eyes comes down to two things:
1) The fact that Google has acknowledged and confirmed at least the Touchscreen (fixed in Feb OTA) and the WiFi issues. I've never really heard Google own up to any issues with any of it's past devices, especially when they were first launched. Sure they would come out with hardware revisions (ie. the back on the Nexus 4), but they would kind of do it on the down low.
2) The price. Seeing as I pre-ordered a 128GB 6P at full price just a few months ago, and the fact I just dropped about $800 on a 12TB NAS, $600 (before tax) is a good chunk of change. If I'm paying that much, I want to make sure I am getting a device that works as I would expect it to (ie. no random reboots, dependable WiFi connections, easily rootable, etc.), especially since it's not really a necessity and more of an entertainment device.
These two main factors are kind of what has scared me off from pulling the trigger. But man do I love this thing whenever I see pics and videos of it, while I stare at my aging Nexus 10. I think as soon as I find out whether the WiFi issue is hardware or software related, I might be picking one up. Anybody seeing them potentially discounting these soon by like $50 like they did with the 6P?
oRAirwolf said:
Anandtech's problems with wifi and the touchscreen are resolved with the latest update.
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That update did not fix the wifi problem judging from the official nexus forum: https://productforums.google.com/fo...ce=footer#!msg/nexus/CM9tv3pjTfQ/QY0xGoTMAgAJ
I donno it doesn't seem like they are getting anywhere with the wifi issue at the official nexus forum. the devs have acknowledged it but there has not been word from them for a while. Meanwhile more and more people are reporting the same issue with wifi at a distance. That issue is a little harder to test if you are just casually using it close to your router. But many people are replicating exactly what I saw in the two units I had before returning it for my money back.
On the flip side it looks like the last update did fix the touchscreen issue.
Again, how these two giant issues made it out of testing is beyond me because they seem to affect most.
Edit: The title of this post is a little misleading and feels like it is just sweeping the issues under the rug.
atg284 said:
That update did not fix the wifi problem judging from the official nexus forum: https://productforums.google.com/fo...ce=footer#!msg/nexus/CM9tv3pjTfQ/QY0xGoTMAgAJ
I donno it doesn't seem like they are getting anywhere with the wifi issue at the official nexus forum. the devs have acknowledged it but there has not been word from them for a while. Meanwhile more and more people are reporting the same issue with wifi at a distance. That issue is a little harder to test if you are just casually using it close to your router. But many people are replicating exactly what I saw in the two units I had before returning it for my money back.
On the flip side it looks like the last update did fix the touchscreen issue.
Again, how these two giant issues made it out of testing is beyond me because they seem to affect most.
Edit: The title of this post is a little misleading and feels like it is just sweeping the issues under the rug.
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Man, that's really too bad. I was all over this thing last September when they announced it. But it never came out. Then once it did it immediately had issues. I've been impatiently waiting for these issues to get addressed and it sounds like one has been. But this wifi thing is still a deal breaker for me. I really want this thing and I really want it to work! This is exactly what I'm looking for in a tablet. But wifi is kinda important...
Thank you OP. I have a Motorola Xoom 1st gen tablet that I'm looking to replace and I have been looking at the Pixel C. I will most likely be placing my order for one.
I replaced a xoom 1st gen. with a Pixel C. You won't regret it. Great machine IMHO
It is good to keep things in perspective and its easy to loose that perspective when watching the threads.
So if you are thinking of buying and if you try to use this tablet at some distance from your WiFi router, it seems you're likely to have issues. It seems this issue is something you could mitigate, but it is a big irritation to pay so much and get problems like this. If, on the other hand you are always fairly near your router, you are likely to love this tablet.
Whenever a company enters into a market like this with a new product there are some issues and whenever they refactor something in a rush to market, you can bet on issues. This IMHO is Google's big mistake. Still, they have acknowledged the WiFi problem as an issue, so we can expect them to address it one way or the other. And as irritating as it is, not having continual commentary from someone at Google on the issue seems like the norm to me--though it isn't necessarily a good communication strategy. Lets just hope it can be resolved by a patch, because frankly I don't expect a buy-back.
So yes, there are issues and some of them are with people's perspective:
1. The tablet doesn't match the productivity hype in the way most hoped it would, even though they knew at the time it was announced that it didn't have multi-window. If you want productivity then the Surface is likely for you. There is hope that a future update will make it better, but multi-window alone is not enough to address the productivity issue IMHO.
2. The keyboard is lacking in that it doesn't have a touch-pad, and it uses Bluetooth, which is more flaky than a direct connection. If this is important then you could get a Surface or look at the Jide UltraTablet. Some don't see a need for a keyboard and seem to get butthurt that an optional keyboard is ever offered, but we all have our issues.
3. There aren't enough apps that fit the size of a tablet.
I'm not trying to be flip here, or at least not entirely. For some, 1 and 3 are real issues, and 2 is a huge disappointment bordering on the unforgivable. But if you want just want a great Android tablet, do these issues matter all that much? I don't think so.
I have toyed with the productivity angle and am seriously considering a surface instead of one of these. IMHO that is part of Google's big mistake because marketing this device as if it was for productivity leads me to think of productivity and because it cannot possibly compete on that field with the Surface, I naturally think "Why shouldn't I just get a Surface". Making a Linux user think of getting a Windows machine to use as a Windows machine is not good for your future Google.
Still, this is a great tablet with issues (the Surface has some issues as well). If that is all you're looking for, here it is. And in the end I expect I'll get one because I already have a laptop and carrying it isn't that much of a pain. In fact I may just get a Jide and wait to see what happens here.