Database Users

Future updates and rooted phones?

Just wondering that the process is for future updates from Sprint/HTC on our rooted phones? If we update do we lose root access? Do the updates have to be hacked first?
On a side note it was just posted that an update is very close in the Sprint Hero forum.
http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/24346?tstart=0

Most likely the new updates will fix the vulnerability that gave us root...then we'll be like the GSM Hero brothers and sisters and have to downgrade to root and use a custom ROM to get the new features.
Now I say "most likely" because they might do it in such a way to not break root access, but there's no guarantee.

thecodemonk said:
Most likely the new updates will fix the vulnerability that gave us root...then we'll be like the GSM Hero brothers and sisters and have to downgrade to root and use a custom ROM to get the new features.
Now I say "most likely" because they might do it in such a way to not break root access, but there's no guarantee.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely is correct. Here's the thing though. All we need to do is a get a dump of the rom when the update is released and we can package it in such a way as to not lose root. But whatever you do, do not update your phone. Now, usually OTAs are automatic so I removed any apks in the system directory that has to do with update. I don't know if that will help or not but it didnt hurt me yet.

Interesting, had no idea that OTA updates were automatic. What other apk's did you delete beyond Sprint_App_Updater? (I actually left that one alone for updating the voicemail...might just rm to be safe.)

chuckhriczko said:
Most likely is correct. Here's the thing though. All we need to do is a get a dump of the rom when the update is released and we can package it in such a way as to not lose root. But whatever you do, do not update your phone. Now, usually OTAs are automatic so I removed any apks in the system directory that has to do with update. I don't know if that will help or not but it didnt hurt me yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting. With so many people complaining about OTA updates, it is actually more beneficial for us to be able to download and do manual updates. I would hope that Sprint gives us the option to decline an OTA update, last I heard they were holding off on them because of the legal implications that might arise if somebody needs to access their phone in an emergency situation and the phone is updating

Assuming it's OTA and automatic - is there still usually user-intervention involved? IE, will the phone pop up a 'yo dawg, we herd you like updates, so we got you some updates for your updates' with a nice little cancel button? Or will it be more like 'updating phone now, you lose!'?
It's probably a moot question since nobody's seen it happen on this phone yet, but I have to imagine it'll be similar to other OTA's on previous androids.

You can turn on and off what you want OTA to do
Settings >> Security >> Firmware Download

cicada said:
Assuming it's OTA and automatic - is there still usually user-intervention involved? IE, will the phone pop up a 'yo dawg, we herd you like updates, so we got you some updates for your updates' with a nice little cancel button? Or will it be more like 'updating phone now, you lose!'?
It's probably a moot question since nobody's seen it happen on this phone yet, but I have to imagine it'll be similar to other OTA's on previous androids.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will probably be the former...asking you if you'd like to update now. I can't imagine them doing it like they did on the Palm Pre (Update now...or choose later and we'll just operate in the background and force it down your throat later).
This is another good reason to use a custom ROM...most of them disable this (or use their OWN OTA updater that is a bit more polite )

I've been hesitant on the MoDaCo ROM so far as I'd pretty much made the changes I was after already, any idea if MoDaCo has removed the Sprint updaters?

nelson8403 said:
You can turn on and off what you want OTA to do
Settings >> Security >> Firmware Download
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The obvious always escapes me, thanks for the tip

2.1 official release for rooted users?

This is not a 2.1 speculation thread, I just thought I'd ask it here with all that knowledge floating around.
WHEN (May 7th?) the 2.1 update is OFFICIALLY dropped, will rooted users be pushed the update? Or will it only go out to models registered as running 1.56.
ASSUMING one might want to upgrade and that push comes, you guys think updating might cause any harm to the phone? I'm thinking 1.56RUU..
I don't think I will partake in the official release, I can't imagine it being any better then what I have now, and what will come after that official release is dropped, however I have had this question for a while. So what do you guys think?

I don't think they can actually push a OTW update.....
barnacles10 said:
This is not a 2.1 speculation thread, I just thought I'd ask it here with all that knowledge floating around.
WHEN (May 7th?) the 2.1 update is OFFICIALLY dropped, will rooted users be pushed the update? Or will it only go out to models registered as running 1.56.
ASSUMING one might want to upgrade and that push comes, you guys think updating might cause any harm to the phone? I'm thinking 1.56RUU..
I don't think I will partake in the official release, I can't imagine it being any better then what I have now, and what will come after that official release is dropped, however I have had this question for a while. So what do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

It is not going to be OTA. It will not matter if you are running custom whatever or stock.
If you run the ruu.exe it will load the official 2.1 release on your phone. The only reason it may not work would be if you ran the 2.1 test ruu.exe and for some reason the official release's hboot is lower than 1.47.000 (the hboot that came with the test release).
Other potential nasty side effects you could get with your official release:
No root
Possibly never be able to root again, or at least stuck with no root until a new work around is found. This fully depends on whether old method is patched.
No custom recovery, no custom roms, no ability to flash .zips from recovery. This goes along with the lack of root.
Inability to run 1.56 ruu ever again due to updated hboot.

danknee said:
It is not going to be OTA. It will not matter if you are running custom whatever or stock.
If you run the ruu.exe it will load the official 2.1 release on your phone. The only reason it may not work would be if you ran the 2.1 test ruu.exe and for some reason the official release's hboot is lower than 1.47.000 (the hboot that came with the test release).
Other nasty side effects you could get with your official release:
No root
Possibly never be able to root again, or at least stuck with no root until a new work around is found.
No custom recovery, no custom roms, no ability to flash .zips from recovery. This goes along with the lack of root.
Inability to run 1.56 ruu ever again due to updated hboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't have said it better myself! I would just suggest waiting until the cook of your preference updates his to include items from the official release.

And the single most important reason: No nandroid. Having a point in time backup is insanely important to me. If I ever have to return my phone and get a refurb, it's nice to know I've got a nandroid that will get me right back to where I was before I turned in my phone.

It won't be OTA as I have read in more than one place that Sprint limits OTA updates to 9MB. Since this will be close to or over 100MB it's going to be OTW.
I for one will not be updating to it. My phone is working perfectly as is and this would give me no additional functionality so why bother?
As for the whole rooting issue, I wish folks wouldn't be so scared of the new hboot. I used the RUU and I have custom recovery and can flash any ROM I want. Yes, I know the leaked RUU had root already, but I rerooted it properly and installed busybox and all that so I could use the phone how I wanted.
Anyway, sorry to get sidetracked there, my comment about being so scared of the new hboot is simply this...There is no way the new version will not be rooted sooner or later. Obviously Sprint and HTC would like us to not be able to root any phones but someone always finds a way. There is no way that the new firmware will not be rooted sooner or later. Just like how the Evo will get rooted, as will any newer phone released after it. It is inevitable that someone will figure it out especially with all the talented and experienced folks here working on it as soon as it's released.

jlem26 said:
It won't be OTA as I have read in more than one place that Sprint limits OTA updates to 9MB. Since this will be close to or over 100MB it's going to be OTW.
I for one will not be updating to it. My phone is working perfectly as is and this would give me no additional functionality so why bother?
As for the whole rooting issue, I wish folks wouldn't be so scared of the new hboot. I used the RUU and I have custom recovery and can flash any ROM I want. Yes, I know the leaked RUU had root already, but I rerooted it properly and installed busybox and all that so I could use the phone how I wanted.
Anyway, sorry to get sidetracked there, my comment about being so scared of the new hboot is simply this...There is no way the new version will not be rooted sooner or later. Obviously Sprint and HTC would like us to not be able to root any phones but someone always finds a way. There is no way that the new firmware will not be rooted sooner or later. Just like how the Evo will get rooted, as will any newer phone released after it. It is inevitable that someone will figure it out especially with all the talented and experienced folks here working on it as soon as it's released.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One big disadvantage/advantage in our case, is that Linux is open source. Anyone who wants to find a root exploit, and is smart enough has the ability to find out where there is potential code to allow for one. So you are correct, my assumption is that we will find a root for it one day. BUT I do think that if the EVO drops soon after, all of the talent that can find one will be on it. Then again, some people are of the mind set "Leave no device un hacked" and it would bother people if they knew we didn't have root LOL

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't we be able to simply use an older RUU (1.52, etc) to get the phone rootable again?
My intention was going to be to try out the new stock RUU for a bit, then re-flash with an older RUU, get root and RA recovery back on, then go back to Fresh Toast. Will this not be possible?

cicada said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't we be able to simply use an older RUU (1.52, etc) to get the phone rootable again?
My intention was going to be to try out the new stock RUU for a bit, then re-flash with an older RUU, get root and RA recovery back on, then go back to Fresh Toast. Will this not be possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not possible if the Hboot updates, which it probably will. Those here who tried the test leak 2.1 ruu.exe were unable to run the 1.56 ruu after.
There is an alternative to restore everything except the hboot from the 1.56 ruu here, but you cannot simply run the .exe. This method won't work if the official build has patched the ability to gain root (you won't be able to nandroid). In that case you will be stuck with official 2.1 only.
BTW, speaking from experience with the test build, ruu, hboot, etc.

Kcarpenter said:
One big disadvantage/advantage in our case, is that Linux is open source. Anyone who wants to find a root exploit, and is smart enough has the ability to find out where there is potential code to allow for one. So you are correct, my assumption is that we will find a root for it one day. BUT I do think that if the EVO drops soon after, all of the talent that can find one will be on it. Then again, some people are of the mind set "Leave no device un hacked" and it would bother people if they knew we didn't have root LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open source is never a disadvantage. Ever.

Good to know, would've been awful to have to wait for new root hack just because I tried the new and shiny!
Guess I will sit back and wait for dev magic before I jump the gun.

Sawawa said:
Open source is never a disadvantage. Ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mater of semantics, politics, and Ideaologies.
Google has a half belief here, they like open, but they protect that damn search algorithim like its a sacred scripture - Last count I think 8 people on earth knew exactly how it worked.
So the disadvantage to google would be ungodly competition if it was released. Proprietary stuff is a win if you look for profits. Again...depends on which side of the spectrum you are on. Points can be argued either way.

jlem26 said:
It won't be OTA as I have read in more than one place that Sprint limits OTA updates to 9MB. Since this will be close to or over 100MB it's going to be OTW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the OP is asking about an OTA 'notification' that the official update is available. If so then yes, everyone with a Hero will get a text message regardless of what rom we have installed.

ramiss said:
I think the OP is asking about an OTA 'notification' that the official update is available. If so then yes, everyone with a Hero will get a text message regardless of what rom we have installed.
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Click to collapse
THAT BETTER NOT COUNT AGAINST MY TEXT LIMIT!!!!

Kcarpenter said:
THAT BETTER NOT COUNT AGAINST MY TEXT LIMIT!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROFL. . . you don't have unlimited text?

lol I would hope having a hero you would have unlimited data and texts
Sent from my HERO200 using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

yeah, but I still keep track of them. Habitual addiction to knowing everything LOL.

yeah, but I still keep track of them. Habitual addiction to knowing everything LOL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol! that's great.. ever since sprint gave us that free mobile to mobile in any network I do not bother checking minutes or texts. unless my bill changes.
Sent from my HERO200 using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

One big disadvantage/advantage in our case, is that Linux is open source. Anyone who wants to find a root exploit, and is smart enough has the ability to find out where there is potential code to allow for one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is it that people still think open source means insecure? I don't claim to know how previous rooting techniques exploit Android, but I do know that 2 Linux distros have a higher government security rating than any other operating system. I assume most weaknesses in android have to do with the recovery and/or update code, which has nothing to do with Linux.

Sawawa said:
Open source is never a disadvantage. Ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It IS when HTC bogards it from us and hordes it like cookie monster does cookies. I thought open source meant OPEN SOURCE. Ahh, who knows i probably misunderstood the whole concept

OTA Update and unRevoked

Newbie question - I had installed unRevoked last week on my stock EVO to try out the wi-fi tether app. My device does not seem to have recieved the update today. Shouldn't I be able to force it through Settings --> System Updates --> HTC Software update ??
Or does the fact that I have unRevoked block it?
I tried uninstalling unRevoked, but it still looks like I can't force the update?
Any ideas?

You will loose root if you apply it.
https://twitter.com/unrevoked
Worse yet if you accidentally apply twice you brick your phone.

Can't get the update?
Thanks - I was less worried about not being able to unRevoke - what has me worried is I can't seem to force the update and I haven't gotten any message that it's available?

I think it is a rollout update. Wait it out.

a question
I've been following the 'how to gain root access after OTA' thread and have a question, but they don't want people posting anything not DIRECTLY RELATED to hacking after OTA there anymore. So, I will try this question here. Here goes :
I have NOT done the 1.47.651 June 29 OTA update, I keep refusing it. My Evo is essentially stock (no rooting, no unrevoked, etc. ) I would like to know if I can run unrevoked since I haven't done the OTA. also, would like to know if I can do the OTA and STILL run unrevoked. Or do I need unrevoked2?
I've been to unrevoked Twitter page and unrevoked docu.wiki and see some information, (but not enough for someone new to Android like myself), and no way to ask/post questions directly. So, I am trying here. My main interest isn't even so much root, it's that I want to be able to tether via USB without having to use extra software like PDAnet.
Any help or a point in the right direction, much thanks.
Scott

scottspa74 said:
I would like to know if I can run unrevoked since I haven't done the OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
scottspa74 said:
also, would like to know if I can do the OTA and STILL run unrevoked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
scottspa74 said:
Or do I need unrevoked2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to use unrevoked2 and use their modified OTA which will give you the benefits and maintain root. If you install the official OTA at any point, you will lose the ability to root, period (until someone figures out a new way to do it )

pdlboy said:
Yes.
No.
You need to use unrevoked2 and use their modified OTA which will give you the benefits and maintain root. If you install the official OTA at any point, you will lose the ability to root, period (until someone figures out a new way to do it )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. You even broke it into separate questions. last clarification, I promise: with no OTA I CAN use unrevoked1 and that doesn't break 4G/not what's being blamed for breaking 4G?
I'm not too concerned with most of the root features, I just wanna be able to tether, so I'm thinking unrevoked1 would be good enough for me, (if It's not what's responsible for breaking 4G on non-updated devices)
Thanks again.

Now Rooted. Kiss OTA's goodbye?

Once rooted, even if running the stock ROM with su permissions, will I be able to even receive OTA updates (Froyo)? Or be solely responsible for flashing the firmware myself? Had a G1 before this but I ended up rooting it after all the updates to 1.6 had been sent out, so I'm unfamiliar how the world of rooting and OTA's collide. I would prefer to do as little modding as possible, even though my vibrant is much more of a high end phone than the G1, it got to a point where I was constantly flashing my phone with new mods and hacks and roms, and it got kind of frustrating having little things wrong here and there. I got my adfree so far, thats enough to make me happy for now.

joe.kerwin said:
Once rooted, even if running the stock ROM with su permissions, will I be able to even receive OTA updates (Froyo)? Or be solely responsible for flashing the firmware myself? Had a G1 before this but I ended up rooting it after all the updates to 1.6 had been sent out, so I'm unfamiliar how the world of rooting and OTA's collide. I would prefer to do as little modding as possible, even though my vibrant is much more of a high end phone than the G1, it got to a point where I was constantly flashing my phone with new mods and hacks and roms, and it got kind of frustrating having little things wrong here and there. I got my adfree so far, thats enough to make me happy for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure right before the update becomes available you'll hear about it and you can always unroot ...

if you install the OTA, you will download the OTA (which is a NON ROOTED update) therefore making your phone get UNROOTED. now, you WANT do avoid installing the OTA's because they will unroot you, but since you aren't running a custom rom on your phone, you WILL get the OTA from t-mobile, you just have to force urself to DECLINE the install (if you want to keep root) you can update to the OTA release if you want to get rid of root, but if you wait a couple days, someone will have hacked a rooted version of the update.

Lieu10ant said:
if you install the OTA, you will download the OTA (which is a NON ROOTED update) therefore making your phone get UNROOTED. now, you WANT do avoid installing the OTA's because they will unroot you, but since you aren't running a custom rom on your phone, you WILL get the OTA from t-mobile, you just have to force urself to DECLINE the install (if you want to keep root) you can update to the OTA release if you want to get rid of root, but if you wait a couple days, someone will have hacked a rooted version of the update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or you can just re-root...correct?

most of the time when an ota update comes out they patch the exploit used to root... this probably will not happen with the galaxy s series phones... 1)Samsung intends to sell 10 million of these phones... 2)It wasnt an exploit, it was left open to begin with

I'm not even sure if T-mobile cares. They allow their customers to post information about rooting their phones on their own forum.
I would post the link but I'm not allowed until my account has been verified.

oh lol, the way i worded my post was inferring that the new update would have "patched" the way to get root, but your responses make me think otherwise lol.

Better safe than sorry if Root is important to you. Wait for a guinea pig to update and verify if root is still an option or not.....

I was wondering the same thing too, but I have deleted most of the bloat ware that came with the brand. So after the ota and unroot, will these programs be reinstalled?
And if I did a factory reset would it restore the bloat ware and unroot the phone?

I got my adfree so far, thats enough to make me happy for now.[/QUOTE]
Is add free really that important? If you don't want a 3mm bar on your screen buy the app. I click the add every time I open an app that is free. If you don't then all the dev will make apple apps... Just kind of selfish if you where to ask me.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Not like we're getting an update ever. =|
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

bauerlucas said:
Just kind of selfish if you where to ask me.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He didn't ask you.

disturkis4u said:
Not like we're getting an update ever. =|
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like this is the case for the moment. Maybe we will see something soon though, but I still would like to know about my questions.
Charles Sloan said:
I was wondering the same thing too, but I have deleted most of the bloat ware that came with the brand. So after the ota and unroot, will these programs be reinstalled?
And if I did a factory reset would it restore the bloat ware and unroot the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Rather then making another thread about this, id just like to ask it here.
i know this has been asked about a million times, but i need to make in a million and one.
im rooted, clockwork recovery, mobile ap installed, and JAC kernel. I do not have any custom roms installed. Because of the custom kernel, im guessing that will keep me from receiving OTA?

[Q] Root for US OTA 2.0

So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there is no solution to root a TP that's already applied the 2.0 update?
I've tried the root methods already obtainable on here and they don't work. I'm guessing (more hoping) that someone is working on finding a solution.
Makes me sad. A co-worker updated it for me because "it said it needed to update it so I did it for you"... *sigh*

OTA2 removed the exploit unless you were already rooted and used Voodoo Rootkeeper to maintain root during the update. I haven't heard the outcome with regards to 2.5. I don't want to risk root so won't be updating unless it's safe.

2.5 is out ? which your version of tablet ?

16gb us. Was delivered last week.
Yeah, I didn't have it rooted before so yeah.

Either people like us find a way to downgrade or wait until a new exploit is found. The former seems easier but my knowledge of these things isn't very high...

Yeah, I'm not sure how to either. I'm good at following directions but when a "friend" upgrades your device for you...
As for downgrading, I don't think that'll be an option until someone finds a Lenovo rom flash utility.

byersbw said:
16gb us. Was delivered last week.
Yeah, I didn't have it rooted before so yeah.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2. 5 was not available to US last week. How did you get it? Supposedly it's still going through certification. 0086_US is 2.0. What version are you?

Oh hell.... I've been reading too many posts on the Lenovo forums. My apologies, I am running OTA 2.0 NOT 2.5. I will correct my first post and title.
I'm running ThinkPadTablet_A310_02_0039_0086_US.

Okay. Thanks. No worries, but was scratching my head, looking puzzled.

Haha! I can understand. I have that look a lot sadly. I appreciate you telling me as I had no clue as to what exactly I was saying.
Now, if anyone knows someone on the inside at Lenovo that could get the flash utility...

LOL If only.

And now we wait. Did NOT expect CM9 to come out so fast and be working so didn't care much for root otherwise. Oh well, that was my fault and I knew I'd lose root for the time being. Now I wait patiently, since the primary work of the developers now is making CM9 to work properly so w/e.

Why isn't there a way to downgrade the rom to 075? The tab has a recovery boot. If it could be downgraded, it could then be rooted , then updated.

No way to downgrade, unless you know something the rest of us are unaware of. There's a bunch of folks that either can't root at all, or took OTA2 before getting root/without preserving root. We've been told that there's nothing to be done for the time being.

I don't know how to do it, but I know that's how other tabs got around the problem. I only say it in case someone does.

AFAIK, the problem is the recovery's signature check.. if it recognizes that the update.zip to flash is older than the build actually installed, it won't install the new ROM.

Thanks. Noob enough that I couldn't explain it, just knew it doesn't work.

YassinTP said:
AFAIK, the problem is the recovery's signature check.. if it recognizes that the update.zip to flash is older than the build actually installed, it won't install the new ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder what it takes to defeat the check? There must be an update script that performs that check. Editing elements of the update script has been the key to other "can't be done" situations.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=22918839[WIP][4.0.3]ICS CM9 ThinkPad Tablet PORT
I'm going to keep putting forth suggestions instead of claiming something can't be done. Afterall, the point of this entire forum is to work togther to overcome obstacles.

While I don't know a lot about these things, if it could be done, it would have been. This forum is overflowing with posts from owners of all kinds devices asking how to downgrade their respective device so they can take root. It's not an uncommon request, and one that I have researched for another device, only to find the same answer. Hey if you find out how to do it, you'll make a fortune.

Two other tablets, the Flyer and the View downgrade to gingerbread, then unlock bootloader, then root, then update to honeycomb, then custom roms are applied. They got the idea from another tab, the Iconia, who got it from the Transformer . . .
I'm just trying to push good and bad ideas to someone with the skills. It's about not taking 'no' as an answer.
Here's the thread for Flyer/View:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=21028879[Procedure]No HTC unlock downgrade HC-GB for official OTA