Related
We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).
kcrudup said:
We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).
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your point for posting this?
tech support blows and people are stupid
znfrazier said:
your point for posting this?
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Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").
kcrudup said:
Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").
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No se. i thought you had a question lol and i read through it like 3 times.. my b :O
>But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience
I think it's more about the mainstreaming of mobile devices. Smartphones will always be hampered by the monthly carrier fees, even as they become more popular. Tabs will be mostly wifi (no fees), and their larger size are more versatile, and thus more appealing.
>IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing.
In the short run, I disagree. Honeycomb is still beta status, and this first crop of Android tabs are premium-priced. In both price/performance and user-experience, the lackluster Android effort only justifies the iPad's frontrunner status.
In the long run, it doesn't matter. Android's quasi-open-source, multi-vendor approach means more competition, which means lower prices. There is already price competition for this first crop; Moto was forced to drop pricing (nominally) even before the Xoom was available for some region.
Lower pricing will be key to any new platform adoption, fragmentation be damned. Use MS Windows as a gauge. In the near future, you will walk into a retail outlet and see the iPad 2 for $500, and a similar Android tab for $300. The Android may be less polished, but it isn't as limited as the Apple toy. More importantly, it's a $200 difference.
How "near" is near? I'd say next year. The mentioned price delta is likely to be achieved this year, but the UX and app repertoire still aren't a sufficient value proposition for Android tabs. It'll take a year.
For the Xoom specifically, there isn't a need to apologize for it per the topic header. How well the Xoom sells is irrelevant to a Xoom owner, since he already bought it. Its hardware is similar enough to others of the Teg2 crop that there'll be 3rd-party support, regardless of official Moto support. To wit: somebody has already used Asus' source to develop SD-slot support for the Xoom.
Buying is an emotional process, and people have a need to justify their choice in the presence of peers, eg buying a Xoom is "good." Rationally speaking, it's irrelevant. You buy something because you want or need it, and you can afford it. That's it. It doesn't matter what others buy or don't buy. Have self-confidence.
When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy." I was getting one as soon as I'd gotten the specs on it, no matter if there were only 5K sold.
(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )
>When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy."
I disagree on that. Moto's premium strategy is ill-advised, since its exclusivity isn't long enough, and its hardware isn't differentiated enough. The rumored sales numbers is a good indication.
This isn't to say that the Xoom is over-priced. While the 3G model has a hefty premium attached, the wifi model is competitive at $600 for 32GB. Moto's mistake is in not leading with the 16GB SKU at the iPad-decreed $500 price point. Hence its "more expensive yet does less" tag.
>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree)
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.
>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )
e.mote said:
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.
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Well, not quite. I was here at the office bored working on some other stuff, when I decided to take another look at the board files in our own source 'cause I'd remembered one of the other platforms had more SDHCI channels defined. I figured out what to do about 3 hrs later, and sent BigRushDog and CoolBHO3K a PM telling 'em what I'd had, and it turns out they too had been working on it simultaneously, using the Asus kernel sources as a guide (which I still haven't seen yet, gotta download it in case there's other stuff in there we can use).
Since BRD/CBHO3K have already put kernels out there, I just sent them the GitHub commits I'd done and told them to pick and choose what they'd want to use (IIRC, the mounting stuff in the init scripts).
I'm still running my own stuff too (mostly 'cause our kernels have diverged a bit as I've pulled in more upstream changes, as least as of Sunday).
But hey, SD-Card works now!
A thumb's-up for the effort, and in sharing it with the community.
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.
e.mote said:
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.
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Man, you just don't know- I'd sell my firstborn* for the real NVidia Tegra 2 chipset programming manual, and/or the full schematic for the Xoom!
* - as I don't have any kids yet, unless your name is "Rumplestiltskin" I ain't got nothin' to worry about
No love from the Nvidia developer PR rep? OK, clue me in. What does it take to get the Teg250 tech ref? Or do people use OpenMax for Android?
kcrudup said:
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
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Of course, you have the reverse- i.e., where the "Average Joe" in the Motorola forums is now all over the Moto forums *****ing and moaning endlessly "to Motorola" (they really do believe that forum is special 'cause it's hosted on Moto's site) over lack of SD-Card and LTE upgrade (the latter doesn't exist only 'cause of parts shortages, but the non-tech crowd over there has misinterpreted Jha's "LTE incompatibility" statement and run with it).
It's utterly unreadable over there now, and of course you've got your Wingnut Contingent bleating on about "class action lawsuits" and of course the whole "Never buying Moto again" crowd.
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this. I know the nookis an easy device to root but imlooking for a device with a little more to offer. Idealized there will be little to no device support but I am learning to work with devices.
Here's the link.
http://chinagrabber.com/gs-708-cell...---android-2-3-tablet-pc---3g-flash-10-4.aspx
grhand82 said:
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this
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Link to the device?
You'll probably have more luck in the General Android area than here. Or even on AndroidTablets.net
Try out Slatedroid
http://www.slatedroid.com/
They have info on the chinese tablets
MK
A word of warning. Chinese vendors have recently released a multitude of tablets that look nice on the outside and act nice when you first turn it on. The problem that's been floating around the internet is that they often die after a few days. These are cheap imitations of the real thing.
Please stay away from these products. Buy from legit vendors or retailers. The last thing we want is to encourage these counterfeit/fake companies to expand.
Added by edit.
First, it was the Iped. Now, it's the Apad. There's also the Superpad. There's a reason they name them so closely to the Ipad.
I don't mean to put down foreign companies. But we really do have to watch out for these fake tablets.
GS-708 tablet
grhand82 said:
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this. I know the nookis an easy device to root but imlooking for a device with a little more to offer. Idealized there will be little to no device support but I am learning to work with devices.
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ww. Apad.tv forums has a thread on this tablet. It is original and nothing about it is fake. even the iPad is made in China as is probably the iconia. Probably not the best place to post as people are iConia A500 owners.
honeycombflytouch3 said:
ww. Apad.tv forums has a thread on this tablet. It is original and nothing about it is fake. even the iPad is made in China as is probably the iconia. Probably not the best place to post as people are iConia A500 owners.
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This is why I said I am not dissing foreign products. I fully understand that most things these days are made in China. But there's a difference. Products with legit names have (hopefully) better quality control.
Again, why in the world would a product brand named almost a perfect immitation of a real thing that's popular? Iped. Apad. Superpad. Etc. If a product can stand on its own silicon feet, then let it. If it needs to imitate to sell, then chances are it's got something to hide.
People often try to talk me down when I share my concern. So, let me repeat. I have no problem with products made in China. I do have a problem with these companies that are springing up all over China that pay little attention to quality control and sell their products through cheap imitation of real popular things. We as consumers need to stop supporting these immoral practices by staying away from these cheap imitations.
Fair enough. for the most part a lot of rogue sellers on B2c platforms, and auction sites do not qc products before shipping - this does not mean the product is inferior: it comes down to how the seller qc's / tests / describes product before shipping.
It is not fair to make assumptions about company qc. ChinaGrabber.com is actually a USA site if you do a who.is search.
Lastly, many people on the apad.tv forums, including myself, have bought the "Branded" iBex Flytouch3.
ChinaGrabber is also a supporter of the forum so if their products have quality issues, including iBex tablets, I am sure people would be complaining. For the most part, I have only seen positive reviews.
The GS-708 is a new tablet so it will probably be a while until people get it and review it.
HCFT3
honeycombflytouch3 said:
It is not fair to make assumptions about company qc. ChinaGrabber.com is actually a USA site if you do a who.is search.
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Again, I am not dissing everything that comes out of China or embracing everything that comes out of the US. There are honest to god legit US companies that have been created for the sole purpose of having an American sounding name and American base to sell Chinese, often inferior, products. An example of this is the company called Augen based in Florida. I'm sure many of you have heard of the Augen gentouch series. These are really cheap tablets that pretty much have everything that's wrong with them. Quality control is nonexistent. Tech support is nonexistent. The screens are made of plastic instead of glass.
For a time, I was curious enough to look into this company. What I found was that this so-called company name Augen has exactly 7 employees, including the so-called CEO. The company base is in a hotel suit. So, I went a step further and bought one of their products. I then pretended to be a complete dummy and called their "tech support". I asked some questions that any newbie dev would know. It was painful to listen to the guy's half-cooked answers. Let just say he didn't even know what a kernel was.
Augen is now selling what they call their espresso series. Very shiny pieces of plastic. Completely not worth anything at all.
The point is again let me repeat myself. We as consumers need to discourage such immoral practices in the trade by staying away from these fakers. Yes, most of them are from China. But there are a number of them who are based here in the US. And I am convinced they are all over Europe as well.
If the name sounds almost like something really popular, best to stay away from it.
Lastly, many people on the apad.tv forums, including myself, have bought the "Branded" iBex Flytouch3.
ChinaGrabber is also a supporter of the forum so if their products have quality issues, including iBex tablets, I am sure people would be complaining. For the most part, I have only seen positive reviews.
The GS-708 is a new tablet so it will probably be a while until people get it and review it.
HCFT3
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If a product is legit and is able to stand on its own, then name it something else. Boycott!
On a side note
This kind of business practice reminds me of "mockbusters" - movies named after the most popular moves of the moment to hopefully convince people to waste cash on some b rated crap by misdirection. I spent two weeks of research before buying my Iconia - easy to see how if i had not done my homework I could have been totally ripped off.
entropy.of.avarice said:
This kind of business practice reminds me of "mockbusters" - movies named after the most popular moves of the moment to hopefully convince people to waste cash on some b rated crap by misdirection. I spent two weeks of research before buying my Iconia - easy to see how if i had not done my homework I could have been totally ripped off.
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Yup. When pirates of the carribean 2 came out, a soft porn movie came out called "pirates". Being a zombie fan, I've seen dozens and dozens of cheap budgeted movies with very similar names to high budgeted movies.
We need to stop endorsing these practices with our money.
Hey folks, I have to agree.
I bought a couple of inexpensive Chinese tablets on my tablet journeys. One was the Haipad M701-R that wasn't so great so I sold it. The other is my current 7" cheapie: a Rena3 that is actually an okay piece in most respects, but suffers from poor video playback due to shoddy support by the manufacturer with no promise of...anything to fix it anytime soon or...ever maybe.
What you save in money you lose in ongoing support, even with the better built ones.
The closet full of coding slaves the small companies have is only good for a couple of firmware revisions at best before the next big device they want to sell has to be coded for.
REAL support ends up being through the community in the form of someone in the know creating custom firmwares for these cheapie tabs, if you are lucky.
IF
The satisfaction level with my a500 is through the roof by comparison, and the firmware came down the line on it's own and WORKED.
PRICE IS NOT VALUE
grhand82 said:
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this. I know the nookis an easy device to root but imlooking for a device with a little more to offer. Idealized there will be little to no device support but I am learning to work with devices.
Here's the link.
http://chinagrabber.com/gs-708-cell...---android-2-3-tablet-pc---3g-flash-10-4.aspx
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I would warn anyone off ChinaGrabber.
I bought a Flytouch 3 10" tablet from them.
The GPS was locked to Chin.
The battery lasted 1 hour after charges, and later on the charge would not 'take'.
Finally the battery exploded, destroying the tablet and filling the room with toxic fumes.
ChinaGrabber's answer to the GPS and battery was to send me to some dumb forum and I was told to try the things posted there.
When I did try them and told them it didn't work they told me that doing these things invalidated my warranty.
PayPal (the scamming bastards) upheld my payment guarantee complaint, but then reversed their decision - they said to get the refund I had to send the item back in the condition I received it, I told them it was melted, cracked and burnt from the exploding battery, they said it's either condition-I-received-it, or no refund, then cancelled the entire claim on me.
Don't buy ChinaGrabber, don't use PayPal..
Check out the Rena3. It is a dual core tablet with a &
I've owned a couple of the cheaper Chinese tablets...one M0003 7" and a 7" rockchip tablet. I gotta say, that while it was fun to take them both apart and dork around with the insides, the fact that I ended up needing to take them apart to fix them should be a good indicator of quality control. The touchscreen went out on the first one, and while I could still use it with a mouse, it was useless as a tablet and the second had a shoddy joint at the battery and I had to resolder it to keep it going. After those experiences, I decided to go with a better name and got a Gtablet. Still have that and its ticking away like clockwork. My 6 year old uses it to play Angry Birds and watch videos every day. I got my A500 for my daily driver and have not been disappointed at all. I don't think I will ever buy another knock-off tablet again. The use-ability just isn't there, and the QC is questionable at best. My advice is if you want something with 3g capabilities, try to find a used Xoom or A501 on Ebay or something, cause even used it will be a better choice than a no-name.
goodintentions said:
If the name sounds almost like something really popular, best to stay away from it.
If a product is legit and is able to stand on its own, then name it something else. Boycott!
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I hear that. The iPed was an obvious one.
But, Apad, which is in the GS-708 title is a word that discribes a Chinese Android Running tablet pc or "Android pad" or A pad. Do not think that sounds like anyting mainstream.
You guys are right to always do research on a product before buying it. I think this is why the OP posted thread.
Er.. So, Why did amazon bother to not add the android market, if they aren't going to block loading APKs, or actively try to prevent root?
My mom who knows nothing about android could be walked through that process...
Try asking B&N the same thing?
Amazon thought it through perfectly. They aren't selling or attempting to actually sell a mobile computing device (tablet). They are selling a next gen Kindle (PMP). Have a look at the Nook Color and the iPod Touch, then compare against a Galaxy Tab, Xoom, Thrive, iPad 2, and Transformer. See the difference?
If they wanted the Android Market, Google has strict requirements that would keep amazon from doing all the data mining they want to sell ad data to partners. If you have the Google Android Market on a device you make Google gets all the info..
I think....
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
cos they just made so you buy from amazon.com they make a $10 loss on each one, they hope to gain that from selling stuff via amazon.com
natand12342010 said:
cos they just made so you buy from amazon.com they make a $10 loss on each one, they hope to gain that from selling stuff via amazon.com
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It doesn't look like they are taking much of a loss at all according to this study: http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=212876 Making a profit actually.
Mama Luigi said:
Try asking B&N the same thing?
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I've been curious about the nook as well.
On the other hand, even if not a lot, I figured they were making a bit more money off of their product than amazon who is potentially using their tablet as a loss leader.
Snow_fox said:
I've been curious about the nook as well.
On the other hand, even if not a lot, I figured they were making a bit more money off of their product than amazon who is potentially using their tablet as a loss leader.
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It's all about "branding" the consumer. The earlier a company can get you to like/use their product the more likely it is you will continue to use them. The AF, by trying to restrict content and funnel only to their "approved" providers they can make dollars on volume. Apple does the same thing by getting their products into schools. Get 'em while their young! lol McDonald's does the same thing. What parent doesn't relent (often enough) to the protestations of their kid lamenting for the latest Happy Meal toy?
Downsides are galore. If a high school senior only knows Apple..they are severely limited in the marketplace (like it as not it's still a MS Business World). McDonald's? Fat kids with poor eating habits...Amazon Only Contest? One loses the richness of choice. See what I mean?
(I just might be a little cynical? lol)
skeeterpro said:
It's all about "branding" the consumer. The earlier a company can get you to like/use their product the more likely it is you will continue to use them. The AF, by trying to restrict content and funnel only to their "approved" providers they can make dollars on volume. Apple does the same thing by getting their products into schools. Get 'em while their young! lol McDonald's does the same thing. What parent doesn't relent (often enough) to the protestations of their kid lamenting for the latest Happy Meal toy?
Downsides are galore. If a high school senior only knows Apple..they are severely limited in the marketplace (like it as not it's still a MS Business World). McDonald's? Fat kids with poor eating habits...Amazon Only Contest? One loses the richness of choice. See what I mean?
(I just might be a little cynical? lol)
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You're dead on actually. This is a proven marketing method that works so well that various companies are banned from using it (tobacco, alcohol, etc). Apple's variant has been particularly successful because they didn't just get their product out to the kids. They also worked hard to convince the kids that without an Apple product, you weren't cool. Once this took hold, all Apple needed to do was continue to play upon that theme with each later device, as the "cool factor" propagates on its own, both forward and backward across generations. The older crowd by nature wants to appear to be young and hip, and the very young crowd want to appear older and cool. So, Apple wins across the board, from the elementary school almost all the way up to the retirees.
Cobey_S said:
You're dead on actually. This is a proven marketing method that works so well that various companies are banned from using it (tobacco, alcohol, etc). Apple's variant has been particularly successful because they didn't just get their product out to the kids. They also worked hard to convince the kids that without an Apple product, you weren't cool. Once this took hold, all Apple needed to do was continue to play upon that theme with each later device, as the "cool factor" propagates on its own, both forward and backward across generations. The older crowd by nature wants to appear to be young and hip, and the very young crowd want to appear older and cool. So, Apple wins across the board, from the elementary school almost all the way up to the retirees.
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The iPhone 4S is a failure in the sense that it looks like and has the same appearance as the iPhone 4. No discernable COOL factor here. Buyers will have to wear a pin "This Is The 4S"
1215kids said:
The iPhone 4S is a failure in the sense that it looks like and has the same appearance as the iPhone 4. No discernable COOL factor here. Buyers will have to wear a pin "This Is The 4S"
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iPhone 1G, 3G, and 3GS all looked identical as well, but that didn't stop shoppers, nor the "cool" effect brought of having an "in" product. The appearance and technical excellence have little to nothing to do with it. "I have an iPhone," on the other hand does, and that's the brilliance behind Apple's variant on the "capture the hearts and minds of the young" marketing approach.
Er. Guys.
Let me say the iphone 4s may have failed in a few ways.
1. People expected an iphone 5. Even if it would have the exact same hardware.. people wanted to hear "iphone 5". Apple failed at marketing.. which is big since it is almost more of a marketing company than anything else.
2. A lot of people *were* hoping to see changes. Being totally honest.. the iphone design is tired in a lot of ways. The 3.5" screen is small despite the iphone being almost the same size as a 4" device. The problem is if they raise the size to 4" then it is just going to look gigantic..
Apple is in a bad situation honestly. If they change it, they alienate a lot of fans.
If they don't, the design just keeps looking older and older..
Snow_fox said:
Er. Guys.
Let me say the iphone 4s may have failed in a few ways.
1. People expected an iphone 5. Even if it would have the exact same hardware.. people wanted to hear "iphone 5". Apple failed at marketing.. which is big since it is almost more of a marketing company than anything else.
2. A lot of people *were* hoping to see changes. Being totally honest.. the iphone design is tired in a lot of ways. The 3.5" screen is small despite the iphone being almost the same size as a 4" device. The problem is if they raise the size to 4" then it is just going to look gigantic..
Apple is in a bad situation honestly. If they change it, they alienate a lot of fans.
If they don't, the design just keeps looking older and older..
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Myself, and the others that I know that are technically inclined are in complete agreement with you. On the flip side, not one of my friends or customers, that use their iPhones as status symbols more than anything else, feel that way. To them, it's a new iPhone, and they want it. Sadly, that bunch easily outnumbers the technically inclined. I feel that is pretty accurate for the market as a whole as well - those that know better are the minority by a long shot.
They thought it through, but with their own concept on reality
No Google market, the low storage and no microsd slot are all by design to force a bunch of lemmings (they appear to think we all are) into their revenue cloud.
Just wait till folks get on the road with these things and find out the cloud only hovers around a wifi connection
IMO, the Flyer is the current best 7" device for price and features. Compared to the Fire:
1. 8gb more storage
2. 512mb more ram
3. The SoC per Anandtech and my own practical tests performs better with Flash, games, video and everything else in between (I also have a Droid 3, which has 512mb ram and 4430 SoC to compare in a practical manner).
4. Microsd slot
5. GPS
6. BOTH markets
7. Install from other sources
8. Camera
9. Better build
The extra $100 seems a very sound investment for most folks.
The Fire IMO is a low end, second rate iPad wannabe, with a UI and storefront model to support it. CrabApple.
Cobey_S said:
On the flip side, not one of my friends or customers, that use their iPhones as status symbols more than anything else, feel that way. To them, it's a new iPhone, and they want it.
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But it looks exactly the same as last year's model. Now in order to feel superior, they have to ask everyone holding one if they have the 4 or 4s. That's a lot of work.
thatdude90210 said:
But it looks exactly the same as last year's model. Now in order to feel superior, they have to ask everyone holding one if they have the 4 or 4s. That's a lot of work.
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Who cares? The 4S is released as a mid-range device. Apple has no high-end devices now... They're failing on this release.
thatdude90210 said:
But it looks exactly the same as last year's model. Now in order to feel superior, they have to ask everyone holding one if they have the 4 or 4s. That's a lot of work.
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One would think, right? Not the case. So far, I have but one iPhone lover that isn't budging on the update to the 4S, 30-40 that are getting it because it's new, and 8 that are converting from Android to iOS and are rather excited to get it.
rushless said:
They thought it through, but with their own concept on reality
No Google market, the low storage and no microsd slot are all by design to force a bunch of lemmings (they appear to think we all are) into their revenue cloud.
Just wait till folks get on the road with these things and find out the cloud only hovers around a wifi connection
IMO, the Flyer is the current best 7" device for price and features. Compared to the Fire:
1. 8gb more storage
2. 512mb more ram
3. The SoC per Anandtech and my own practical tests performs better with Flash, games, video and everything else in between (I also have a Droid 3, which has 512mb ram and 4430 SoC to compare in a practical manner).
4. Microsd slot
5. GPS
6. BOTH markets
7. Install from other sources
8. Camera
9. Better build
The extra $100 seems a very sound investment for most folks.
The Fire IMO is a low end, second rate iPad wannabe, with a UI and storefront model to support it. CrabApple.
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Being totally honest, I must admit I am considering the Kindle fire, but I am waiting to see what else comes out first.
If I *only* wanted a tablet, spending 100$ more on a flyer would be ok.. But, I also have a few other things on my "christmas list" A few ps3 games (infamous2 and resistance3), a new comp case.. (obsidian 650d) and I would like a tablet so I can read manga somewhere besides at my computer screen.
So for me, it becomes an issue of practicality.. How much can I really afford to spend on a tablet in the near future?
I mean sure it *is* limited to the cloud.. however without the internet most devices become borderline useless anyway.
Snow_fox said:
Being totally honest, I must admit I am considering the Kindle fire, but I am waiting to see what else comes out first.
If I *only* wanted a tablet, spending 100$ more on a flyer would be ok.. But, I also have a few other things on my "christmas list" A few ps3 games (infamous2 and resistance3), a new comp case.. (obsidian 650d) and I would like a tablet so I can read manga somewhere besides at my computer screen.
So for me, it becomes an issue of practicality.. How much can I really afford to spend on a tablet in the near future?
I mean sure it *is* limited to the cloud.. however without the internet most devices become borderline useless anyway.
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For what you say, Snow, the AF might well be ideal for what you seek. The again, let's all keep in mind that as of right now, the AF cannot really be considered an "android tablet" but more a "dedicated e-reader running android". That is if/until it is rooted by some of the marvelous devs on XDA.
My money's on the devs. lol
Snow_fox said:
Being totally honest, I must admit I am considering the Kindle fire, but I am waiting to see what else comes out first.
If I *only* wanted a tablet, spending 100$ more on a flyer would be ok.. But, I also have a few other things on my "christmas list" A few ps3 games (infamous2 and resistance3), a new comp case.. (obsidian 650d) and I would like a tablet so I can read manga somewhere besides at my computer screen.
So for me, it becomes an issue of practicality.. How much can I really afford to spend on a tablet in the near future?
I mean sure it *is* limited to the cloud.. however without the internet most devices become borderline useless anyway.
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Depends on what you use. I have tons of games, videos and emulator roms. Use them while traveling and other area where wifi is no open or available.
This device is as limited as you could get.
As far as rooting, why? There is no space to do anything with it. Breach the Amazon cloud and the functionality is even less. Assuming inflation for my contract manufacturing days for connectors (buyer), the total cost for a sd slot port is 75 cents to add to design (components circuit bridge). This means probably $1.50 applied to sellers to maintain margin.
Could argue that is money they save, but I suggest the lack of one is FAR more costly, since it will sell well until people are savvy to no card expansion and the "forced" cloud use. They should have added the slot, but it is not there by design- they want cloud usage so they can data mine and also get revenue linked to their B class iTunes effort.
For someone not constrained on an extra $100, the Flyer is FAR better for reasons mentioned above (at least). Added: Heck, even my very non-tech wife does not want the Fire, due to no microsd slot. A key reason she also did not want an iPad either.
---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 PM ----------
Snow_fox said:
Er. Guys.
Let me say the iphone 4s may have failed in a few ways.
1. People expected an iphone 5. Even if it would have the exact same hardware.. people wanted to hear "iphone 5". Apple failed at marketing.. which is big since it is almost more of a marketing company than anything else.
2. A lot of people *were* hoping to see changes. Being totally honest.. the iphone design is tired in a lot of ways. The 3.5" screen is small despite the iphone being almost the same size as a 4" device. The problem is if they raise the size to 4" then it is just going to look gigantic..
Apple is in a bad situation honestly. If they change it, they alienate a lot of fans.
If they don't, the design just keeps looking older and older..
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I have an iPod 4 64gb and like it a lot, but would not have a iPhone, since too constrained for me (ditto on an iPad). Still, the new models have the dual core and a 64gb option. Not too shabby for iPhone lovers who are media and game freaks.
The problem is the "retina display". If they increase the size, ditto on the display res. Probably too costly and not reliable enough for efficient yields from production. Cost curve for a 4" retina is probably evil (for now).
First off, let me say this tablet is amazing and I really like it. It cost me a good fortune (I'm a student) and am starting to feel like I've been ripped off. I say this because the nexus tablet is coming soon and nvidia plans on making sub 200 dollar tablets with their quadcore in it.
Now lets be honest. You guys seriously think dev support will grow for this device, a $400+ tablet with NO idea on when ics will be arriving, if it ever does. Or would they flock to a much cheaper device, has google's full support with the latest updates + source?
Of course I am speaking strictly in terms of potential through the power of developers working hard to get crazy tweaks and mods going on. And please don't flame me, because this if pretty much what this website is exclusively about. Anyway my point being, it just seems like cutting your losses short and selling this device now looks like a smart option. I'd like to hear any other thoughts.
If dev support is what you are after I would say cut your losses and find a more mainstream device. I doubt that we will ever see more than a few good devs supporting this device. Its been out for 6 + months and really hasn't sold all that well. Traffic in these forums has been rather slow as well. I love my device, just being realistic.
When ICS source comes out we should see some roms but who knows when that will be. I personally change phones about every 6 months but may hold out with this until October to see what Apple has up its sleeve 7inch wise.
Before comparing the 7.7 with what the Nexus tablet might end up to be and at what price, let's not forget that Google is probably going to sell it at cost or with a loss just to compete the kindle and iPad. You really can't compare the business plan here.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
TPizzle said:
First off, let me say this tablet is amazing and I really like it. It cost me a good fortune (I'm a student) and am starting to feel like I've been ripped off. I say this because the nexus tablet is coming soon and nvidia plans on making sub 200 dollar tablets with their quadcore in it.
Now lets be honest. You guys seriously think dev support will grow for this device, a $400+ tablet with NO idea on when ics will be arriving, if it ever does. Or would they flock to a much cheaper device, has google's full support with the latest updates + source?
Of course I am speaking strictly in terms of potential through the power of developers working hard to get crazy tweaks and mods going on. And please don't flame me, because this if pretty much what this website is exclusively about. Anyway my point being, it just seems like cutting your losses short and selling this device now looks like a smart option. I'd like to hear any other thoughts.
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The premium you paid for this device is for its extra lightweight, slim design and display. There are many other development oriented devices out there, so I think you could consider switch if active development device is what you are looking for.
You could still do a lot of fun things hacking these device, though, if you chose to keep it.
I got this as a digital sketchpad. The display wss the deciding factor. 30% increase in color gamut, highest contrast ratio ever. As absolute black as we may ever get AND access to the additive color model??? Biggest revolution in the history of mark making since the invention of painting...or maybe stainglass....
Sad its marketing flopped, I think the multinational injunction apple placed against these devices certainly isn't helping their mainstream adoption...
Sent from my GT-P6800
im kinda thinking the same... wait for the toshiba 7.7 (7.7 FORM factor is so good you can use the upcoming CHAMELEON HOMESCREEN on your 7" tab- but i dont think toshibas build will be better than P6800), wait for ics (damn you SAMSUNG we paid premium for this device... give us our updates) or wait for finished roms (the devs are SAVIOURS of this device- thank God we have them).
Sent from my GT-P6800 using XDA Premium HD app
hmmmmm i still think my Xoom is very relevant and will better suit me for what i use a tablet for. heck my first gen kindle fire is still relevant (for me anyways)
what are your thoughts?
http://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/overview/
My thoughts are that comparing the too is like comparing oranges and carrots. The only thing they have in common is the color orange (they're both tablets).
They are damn near 2 generations apart tech wise and 2 completely different form factors.
exactly, thats what i meant, no need to get something new like the ipad mini (or any ipad) when my xoom still fits the bill. apple has always innovated, now with the mini, they are trying to get in on the smaller tablet market that Google and Amazon have already taken the lead in
ever since the world lost steve jobs, apple has taken a slide downward, pretty soon they will be irrelevant
dodgefan67 said:
exactly, thats what i meant, no need to get something new like the ipad mini (or any ipad) when my xoom still fits the bill. apple has always innovated, now with the mini, they are trying to get in on the smaller tablet market that Google and Amazon have already taken the lead in
ever since the world lost steve jobs, apple has taken a slide downward, pretty soon they will be irrelevant
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Honestly it sounds like you just want to chat about how Apple is bad and the Xoom is still a masterpiece (its not - its quite outdated). Apple is still quite relevant to the mobile market (phones and tablets). They make solid products with good hardware, have fantastic marketing, provide options and on the tablet front, are destroying Android in terms of app support (the OS, IMO, is **** compared to Jellybean). Regardless, they're not going anywhere, no matter how hard you pray.
I love my Xoom but it is far far out of date. I can't wait to see the Nexus 10 and may very well upgrade to that.
Cell phone repair parts - Cell phone Accessories
Also, while the iPad Mini is the thing everyone is talking about....I think the updated iMac and the Macbooks were much more newsworthy.
PeterWitrigs said:
Also, while the iPad Mini is the thing everyone is talking about....I think the updated iMac and the Macbooks were much more newsworthy.
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I agree with this and on a different note the surface isn't to shabby looking either. This is my favorite time of the year.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
Cubanluke88 said:
Honestly it sounds like you just want to chat about how Apple is bad and the Xoom is still a masterpiece (its not - its quite outdated). Apple is still quite relevant to the mobile market (phones and tablets). They make solid products with good hardware, have fantastic marketing, provide options and on the tablet front, are destroying Android in terms of app support (the OS, IMO, is **** compared to Jellybean). Regardless, they're not going anywhere, no matter how hard you pray.
I love my Xoom but it is far far out of date. I can't wait to see the Nexus 10 and may very well upgrade to that.
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you may be right, but it is just an opinion, never liked apple, but its not like i look for opportunities to bash them....no wait :cyclops:
and yeah as long as the Nexus 10 isn't built by LG i might get one too
PeterWitrigs said:
Also, while the iPad Mini is the thing everyone is talking about....I think the updated iMac and the Macbooks were much more newsworthy.
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thats true as well
To be honest my xoom2 sound way better than mini ipad mini.
Cubanluke88 said:
Honestly it sounds like you just want to chat about how Apple is bad and the Xoom is still a masterpiece (its not - its quite outdated). Apple is still quite relevant to the mobile market (phones and tablets). They make solid products with good hardware, have fantastic marketing, provide options and on the tablet front, are destroying Android in terms of app support (the OS, IMO, is **** compared to Jellybean). Regardless, they're not going anywhere, no matter how hard you pray.
I love my Xoom but it is far far out of date. I can't wait to see the Nexus 10 and may very well upgrade to that.
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A wolf in sheep clothing is what you are, I see no apple product in your signature all android and yet you downgrade android, Our two year old Xoom run rings around both the iPad2 and mini. 4.3 ratio is so sixties, Bless Motorola who invented cellphone all others are just carbon copy, you mention out of date and yet mini a week old is selling itself on dual band radio when we all know the Xoom was the first tablet to incorperate it. The mini is in Colby league not Xoom..
tumpy said:
A wolf in sheep clothing is what you are, I see no apple product in your signature all android and yet you downgrade android, Our two year old Xoom run rings around both the iPad2 and mini. 4.3 ratio is so sixties, Bless Motorola who invented cellphone all others are just carbon copy, you mention out of date and yet mini a week old is selling itself on dual band radio when we all know the Xoom was the first tablet to incorperate it. The mini is in Colby league not Xoom..
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So now I need to be an Apple user in order to have an unbiased opinion? Please tell me where I downgraded Android wrongly rather than just shrugging it off. Android tablet app support is atrocious. Its getting better and its nice that Android apps "scale" upward but in doing so, a lot of the screen real estate of a tablet is simply not used efficiently. You can compare it to mobile websites. Have you ever looked at a mobile website on a desktop? They look horrible because they're not using the screen real estate efficiently. With all that said, the user interface of the OS itself and the features and speed have finally surpassed that of iOS.
And yes, the Xoom in the tech world of tablets is very out of date. Hardware tech moves fast; its still relevant and useful but the Tegra 2 processor is simply not up to par with newer chips. One of the main Eos devs even said in their nightly thread that the Xoom is old (coming up on 2 years) and people should start looking to upgrade. It was a bit of an off hand comment (as in I don't think they plan on dropping support any time soon) but people were discussing speed and such and the simple fact is the Xoom's hardware is holding it back from taking full advantage of Jellybean (its fast but not nearly as fast as a Galaxy Nexus or Nexus 7 with Project Butter).
Back to my original point, as I stated, comparing the Xoom and Mini is silly and to me comes across as nothing more than a fishing attempt to bash on Apple and circle jerk about the Xoom with other Xoom owners. They are two products that simply don't compare well to one another. A proper comparison would be the Nexus 7 and the Mini; they are much closer in release dates and are actually of similar sizes and targeted at similar customers.
dodgefan67 said:
so what would be the point of buying an ipad mini?
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People that want a smaller tablet and are already invested in the iOS arena or simply prefer it? Tablets that are 9.6" or 10.1" aren't for everyone, just as phones that are 4.7" aren't for everyone. I know quite a few iPhone users who never got iPads because they saw the device as too large and cumbersome. The Mini introduces another option for iOS users at a different price and size.
I've cleaned this thread.
Please be civil and respectful of each other. Thanks.
In my opinion the xoom is still a far superior device to any of Apple's closed system devices and will be for some time to come.
Sent from my Xoom using xda app-developers app
Tech_Zealot said:
In my opinion the xoom is still a far superior device to any of Apple's closed system devices and will be for some time to come.
Sent from my Xoom using xda app-developers app
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And why do you think that?
Tech_Zealot said:
In my opinion the xoom is still a far superior device to any of Apple's closed system devices and will be for some time to come.
Sent from my Xoom using xda app-developers app
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great point, open source has always been better at providing better and faster support to products which make them more reliable and longer lasting. look how many old PCs are running linux
on the flip side, proprietary software like drivers from nvidia (on my LG phone) take forever to get updates. LG/Nvidia and T-Mobile have only just recently upgraded my phone to GB 2.3.4 (back in March) where as my Xoom is running the latest JB
I think that apple products are great! They give people who are new to the computer world a chance to learn hope to use a computer...
That being said anything beyond being new to computers in respect to acceptable customer support, software support, getting the most out of your device, power, and topping on the cake ethical business operation, you don't find it in apple.
I won't go to far into detail and try not to hate on apple to much, but I think that if you want a device that actually allows you to fully use the hardware then you have to look elsewhere. I also think that you pay far to much money for devices in that brand since they already get their hardware cheap as hell. sure they build solid hardware, but its not always high end, nor is it reasonably priced.
I bought a laptop from an off brand that was twice the power of the average apple computer today and half the price. I received it a year ago.
Ok enough with apple. Sorry that organization irritates me.
So on the xoom. I bought mine fairly recently. Some of the things I love about it is that it's build Pretty solid. I feel like I could throw this thing at a friggin wall! People claim the hardware is outdated, I don't agree. My xoom has EOS Wingray 153 currently and doesn't have any issues at all with lag. The only problems I've had with running apps is that I can't find enough that I want to use. That is to say ones relevant for me to use. I have about 64GB to fill and not enough apps to fill it with
Now this isn't as if I'm saying there aren't enough apps made for android to be honest I think there are plenty. I like that you don't need to use a ca authority to make an app attachable to the store, and I like that they don't pull root apps from the market. I also haven't heard of people being sued for hacking android devices.
I haven't been able to take full advantage of my xoom hardware yet, though it's mostly due to a lack of trying. I mostly use it for a few games and internet use when I'm not home. I also do ebooks and PDFs as well as ssh and some research. To say the xoom is outdated is in my opinion grossly wrong. The software that does a pretty damn good job of efficiently using the hardware, and I've yet to see an app thus far have trouble functioning properly or have any sort of lag. Well I did once, but that could have been so to a new build I literally just installed it also could have just been the app. In any case I no longer have lag.
To close to the question of iPad mini vs xoom. If you have a reason to use something smaller than a xoom then by all means support a terrible organization, but otherwise I think the xoom will be good for me for another year.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda premium
I hate Apple's policies for market share! But over hating their policies I hate those iSheeps who keeps saying that their iPoops of them is better than Android, which was com proved by Geekbench that it's the opposite! For all those saying that Xoom is better than any Apple device, it's a lie, BUT even with it's 2 y.o. hardware it's only worse than the new iPhone 5, which is worse to GNote 10.1, GNote 2 and GS3! And there's still missing the new devices that'll come now, like RAZR HD, HTC One X+, Xperia T, etc... And on the iPad mini topic, all I can say is that it's not worth in ANY F-Word WAY! N7 is the best 7" tablet you'll see, Xoom 2 ME is way better too! But I else think that's not fair compare a 7" tablet to a 10" one, they were built for different functions and there's no way you can be fair to both sides when comparing utility, for example: I have my Xoom, which is amazing, and today I used a little my mom's Xoom 2 ME tablet, and it was way better to read than my 10.1" screen! That's why I'm keeping my Xoom and getting a Nexus 7, as I don't need another high end 10" tablet for now and need a tablet for better mobility.
Sent from my MZ601 using XDA HD Premium using 1/8of my brain, the other 7/8 is thinking in my love Isadora