if yes so officially from motorola or by a rom?
It is my understanding that Gingerbread would require a change in kernal that can't be done due to it's locked bootloader. Though I could be wrong on that. As for a OTA update, I've read several lists that list the Droid 2 as a "possible" upgrade. In otherwords, it can happen, but I wouldnt hold my breath.
Yeah, Moto and Verizon have kept silent about what phones are getting upgrades. It would be nice if they would just put out a list, even if they don't give out dates.
I have been told by a VZW insider to not count on it. Note however this same source told me the Eris was dead, and just last week the Eris received an OTA update to fix things that needed to be fixed.
I only wished my Motorola insiders would tell me something, but they won't say a darn word, and they are friends, good friends.
I would imagine it's more of a decision of Moto than Verizon. I don't really see Verizon not releasing an upgrade for a phone that Motorola released. Thus I would pry more at the Moto guys than the Verizon guy, cause they'd likely just be guessing at what Moto will do.
In my personal opinion I really dnt think it matters if we get GB since we already have a lot of stuff better than the blur GB such as gummyjar, liberty! I mean if we do get it, were still going to bootstrap it and change the rom, well atleast I will lol
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
I'm almost positive we will get gingerbread. It would be pretty messed up for a high end device to never get one upgrade. Remember the D2 launched with froyo.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Very true.
I say if we don't get timely upgrades to keep our phones functional, we launch a class action lawsuit against Motorola.
Well the only thing about that is
A. Our phones are functional even without further updates
and
B. As far as I'm aware, there was nothing in the contracts we sign saying they HAVE to update our phones...
So from a legal standpoint, I doubt you could even get a class action lawsuit far.
(I realize you were probably joking, but this is true)
From what I've read, it looks like we could get Gingerbread on our own, because it doesn't require a new kernel.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA Premium App
OMG, why all wants new and new version of Android? GB totally suck, nothing new, only new graphic and ctrl+c and ctrl+v ... I don't like gingerbread almost. Its just only number, nothing more
Actually, I'm quite serious. If they hold us by contract to a single phone for two years, it is their responsibility to keep it updated with patches.
Rooted Droid 2 running Froyo 2.2 with the 2.3.20 update
Actually, unless it is something totally crippling, then once they've sold you the phone they don't have to anything. Because unless it is something crippling then there can be no argument made for usability, and as long as the phone is usable you would have no case.
-Gilgamesh- said:
Actually, unless it is something totally crippling, then once they've sold you the phone they don't have to anything. Because unless it is something crippling then there can be no argument made for usability, and as long as the phone is usable you would have no case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. They are not held by the contract you signed to update the android operating system AT ALL. Patches are one thing, as long as they are critical to the functionality of your phone. Seeing as how the current 2.3.20 is working fine with no major problems, they have no obligation to update android.
Google could require manufacturers to make any patches they put out available.
2.3.20 has problems, such as the phone sometime rebooting itself or not coming out of sleep mode when the power button is pressed. Those are issues that Motorola is supposed to address and fix. I paid for a working phone, not a problem.
silverfang77 said:
Google could require manufacturers to make any patches they put out available.
2.3.20 has problems, such as the phone sometime rebooting itself or not coming out of sleep mode when the power button is pressed. Those are issues that Motorola is supposed to address and fix. I paid for a working phone, not a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point. However, 2.3 isn't a patch, its a complete system upgrade. Besides, forcing phone makers to push out EVERY udpate google puts out would be very expensive for the makers, and deter them from making further android phones.
I do think Moto should fix problems like those with maintenance releases, but that still does not obligate them to update them to 2.3
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have 2.3 on my d2, but I'm not holding my breath.
Sorry to jump in but what about the security issues present in the phone? They put people in harms way by not attempting to patch phones.You could make a case that the the security issues were unknown at the time you signed the contract making it invalid. I understand your point but the security factor is why just saying the phone works its not acceptable..at this time there is nothing a person can do to patch these exploits and we have the text message bug that could ruin your life..Its an interesting situation that needs too be fixed.please correct me if I am missing something here.
Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk
I actually love how people keep bringing up the contract. You have your service with Verizon, whom is also who sold you the phone, thus your contact is with Verizon, not Moto. Thus, your contract has not thing one to do with Moto, thus they could care less what your contract says. And because Moto is the one responsible with issuing the updates, not Verizon, Your contract doesn't relate in any way to any type of updates.
If you want class action, it should be against Motorola for their eFuse malware. This is the real reason we have no gingerbread on our phones. Custom ROMs would already be here which would be good enough for everybody but the most incompetent non-techies too afraid to even root.
I'd also argue that Motorola is fraudulauntly branding these devices as android. Every other manufacturer that sells android devices does not cripple them. I even did a little bit of research before I purchased my device and saw nobody warning about this. I figured "hey, android is open source, these are the most popular devices, what could go wrong?"
Absurd.
Related
i was really looking forward on getting myself a droid/milestone X/2 when it's available in europe. but i just read that the droidX (and maybe all upcoming motorola devices according to http://community.developer.motorola...OMs-and-Motorola-s-Android-Handsets/ba-p/4224) will have a completely locked bootloader as the original milestone had. it's as of today not possible to flash a custom rom on a >7 month old milestone, how weak is that?!
although i like the hardware of the moto-devices and really wanted one, this is definitly a no-go for me and defeats the purpose of android as a open(source)/linux os! i'm done with motorola, just ordered a galaxy s which is completely open!
i don't believe that motorola cares if 10.000 geeky people won't buy theire device because it's locked but it would nevertheless be good to show them that we care!
i'm curious what others think about that!
I think it's horse**** that they are locking it
I mean what's it to them if we can flash our phones??
Maybe they don't want their rom software to be leaked out? besides that I see no other reason for this
sp1kez said:
I think it's horse**** that they are locking it
I mean what's it to them if we can flash our phones??
Maybe they don't want their rom software to be leaked out? besides that I see no other reason for this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's my point. if i buy a piece of hardware, i should own it completely and do with it what i want! also one would think that motorola would (or at least could) appreciate a bunch of developers modding and patching their devices to make them more appealing to the community. i just installed cm6 (froyo) on my htc magic. it works better than ever, how cool is that! would not be possible with a locked bootloader...
example milestone: although no custom rom's can be booted (the bootloader boots only moto-signed kernels) the device can be rooted and so it should be no problem to get a rom-dump. so that can't be the reason...
I was ready to pull the trigger on the Droid X until I heard this. I hate it. You are right, we buy the phone we should own the phone. I still might buy this phone, a vote of confidence to the devs.
I want the large screen. There's nothing out there with as large a screen. The evo, but I've already been burned by that. Maybe if they swap the screen for a better one.
I'm just as angry at Motorola, but I'm still going to purchase a Droid X. It has everything I'm looking for in a phone hardware-wise, and I can't wait any longer to dump the dumbphone I've been using for years. I'm a huge fan of tweaking every piece of technology I have (e.g. hackintosh netbook just for kicks), but I'm going to stick it out with a one-year contract on the Droid X until a better phone comes along.
I've taken a look at the Galaxy S/Fascinate, but it looks far too much like an iPhone to appeal to me, rootable as it may be. Samsung's post-release support is also less than stellar. As closed as Motorola may be by using this bootloader, they are still providing 2.2 to the original Droid this summer, which is more than can be said of a /lot/ of manufacturers.
Yea I had it preordered and everything til I figured out they locked it down, guess they are okay with losing sales by turning unto an apple type company stupid
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Mikerrrrrrrr said:
...
I've taken a look at the Galaxy S/Fascinate, but it looks far too much like an iPhone to appeal to me, rootable as it may be. Samsung's post-release support is also less than stellar. As closed as Motorola may be by using this bootloader, they are still providing 2.2 to the original Droid this summer, which is more than can be said of a /lot/ of manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree. i don't like the iphony-look of the galaxy-s either and i feel like the droid X casing is much more stable. also the omap seemed more appealing to me than samsungs hummingbird. and so on ...
while i think it's a good thing that motorola supports their older devices with updates (at least they do with the droid) my point is/was that a open device enables the community to push the software further ahead. for instance: atm. i still have a htc magic. i just installed cm6 running froyo about a week ago. my device is running better and faster than ever. this would not be possible with a locked bootloader. i would be at the mercy of htc to supply me with an update "sometime in the future", quite frustrating ...
i just don't understand their reasons for this! if it's all just about warranty they could implement a "root and unlock" feature in the settings which would void your warranty e.g. by sending a request to a moto-server or something similar.
maybe it has something to do with drm-stuff as i also wondered that one can only use the (awesome) hdmi-out for self-made media ... kills >50% of the potential of the hdmi-out in my opinion.
jodue said:
i agree. i don't like the iphony-look of the galaxy-s either and i feel like the droid X casing is much more stable. also the omap seemed more appealing to me than samsungs hummingbird. and so on ...
while i think it's a good thing that motorola supports their older devices with updates (at least they do with the droid) my point is/was that a open device enables the community to push the software further ahead. for instance: atm. i still have a htc magic. i just installed cm6 running froyo about a week ago. my device is running better and faster than ever. this would not be possible with a locked bootloader. i would be at the mercy of htc to supply me with an update "sometime in the future", quite frustrating ...
i just don't understand their reasons for this! if it's all just about warranty they could implement a "root and unlock" feature in the settings which would void your warranty ...
maybe it has something to do with drm-stuff as i also wondered that one can only use the (awesome) hdmi-out for self-made media ... kills >50% of the potential of the hdmi-out in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but as it stands, I'm still going to get the phone and hoping out hope for root, although this link (http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html) has me worried about that too.
Mikerrrrrrrr said:
I agree, but as it stands, I'm still going to get the phone and hoping out hope for root, although this link (http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html) has me worried about that too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i hope the best for you mate. maybe it's not that bad and in 2 weeks we are laughing about motorola because some 14 years old hacker has already torn the bootloader apart
I am officially passing on the x droid2 and whatever else Motorola decides to release sorry but I would rather have an open galaxy s than a locked down droidx. IPhone like ui can be changed with a launcher. But their isn't much hope for a double locked bootloader
whoops... has root
Am I wrong to say that the Milestone is still stuck at the OS ver. that it was sold with? And if so, I hear that 2.2 is coming to the X by the end of the summer. I'm sure and exploit can be found in the update process, or hope so.
I'm going to switch to this, simply because I believe that the devs WILL find a way to get around this problem. This is XDA we're talking about, along with a bunch of other communities dedicated to this stuff. Someone will find a way to pull it off, it's just a matter of time. But I plan on having this phone for at least a year, so I have the patience for it.
jodue said:
while i think it's a good thing that motorola supports their older devices with updates (at least they do with the droid) my point is/was that a open device enables the community to push the software further ahead. for instance: atm. i still have a htc magic. i just installed cm6 running froyo about a week ago. my device is running better and faster than ever. this would not be possible with a locked bootloader. i would be at the mercy of htc to supply me with an update "sometime in the future", quite frustrating ...
i just don't understand their reasons for this! if it's all just about warranty they could implement a "root and unlock" feature in the settings which would void your warranty e.g. by sending a request to a moto-server or something similar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you explained 2 reasons for the lock down.
1 is warranty issues
2 is that motorolla can control the life of their product. if after 2 years they give updating the software then you'll be left in the dust and forced to upgrade if want new features.
it's like dlc for games. what used to be free by modding communities has now become a way to squeeze more money out of gamers.
I also agree with you on point 2. This phone is pretty powerful even for me. I consider myself a power user but dont really see how I need a faster phone that this.
This phone, If completely hacked, can have a very long lifespan.
this takes one moto dev
to be on the modder's side.
All this takes is one dev to mess with an official moto update, and this will be tossed due the massive amount of phones that are bricked.
total BS. Knowing Verizon, and why they were late jump on the android bandwagon(because they couldn't "control" an open source opertaing system), this probably came from Verizon pushing Moto to do this. Moto is so desperate to corner the market(unlike HTC) with Verizon, they said yes'maam. Sure no problem you are giving ungodly sums of money why cant we "scratch" your back.
bull****
Let's say that we DON'T unlock this phone.... Would anyone be surprised to see Motorola keep up to day within months of releases in the future???
I see people mentioning the reasoning for it being locked it to control the life of the device.... But seeing how powerful this is and how it is you could say Moto's Flagship model, wouldn't it be int their best interest to keep their customers happy????
Or does everything sell and do you really think they will fall behind on updates...??
Seriously if you really hate the device being locked this much work on an email. I will be shooting an email over to Motorola and Verizon Wireless Customer Support. I can post the email that I am sending on here if you guys want, when I finish typing it.
As for the device being locked it is extremely sad, but many hardware developers are starting to do this. The thinking is that the more they can control what the user does the better the end experience is. That is hardly the truth so just keep cracking the devices so that they get the message we want our own control on the device.
Other than that good luck to all the dev crews out there working to crack the device.
i second the email plan. if enough people fight for an open device, motorola will listen...
12yan said:
i second the email plan. if enough people fight for an open device, motorola will listen...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. Every single Droid and Droid X user could email Motorola and they wouldn't care unless it affected sales. The bottom line speaks the loudest. Hell, more than that, it's the ONLY line that speaks
I read that the new Motorola Droid X and Droid 2 will have digitally signed bootloaders. Which means that only approved Motorola ROMS can be flashed. I wonder how long it will be before HTC and everyone else starts doing this? This could put an end to all of our fun! Of course the cellular providers will save a lot of money if they don't have to replace all of those bricked phones. It will be interesting to see what happens to the bootloader in future OTA and Froyo updates for the DInc...
this belongs in general
Lexus One said:
This could put an end to all of our fun!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
acezhi said:
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
Moved as not development.
reagianicparable said:
It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possibly. But it takes a hell of a lot longer when you're up against encryption. You usually only win this battle if someone on the inside leaks the key. And by then there are new phones coming out and this keeps getting lower and lower on the priority list. Personally, I don't think we can win the encryption battle...
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
two_cents said:
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Granted, HTC *may* never lock their bootloader, but what is to stop Verizon from demanding it? Verizon is permitting it in the Motorola. What if this turns out to be a profit maximizer for them? Could HTC next? Time will tell...
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
What it boils down to is PROFIT. Verizon will weigh the revenues and decide with their pocketbooks. It doesn't make any difference whether HTC likes it or not. Verizon calls the shots. If HTC says no, they're gone. Samsung or LG or someone else will pick up the slack. As for losing customers, it doesn't matter. Money is what matters. Just ask any of our greed driven cellular companies if you don't believe me. Personally, I don't think there are that many people who re-flash their ROMS and would care if the bootloader is locked or not. I think we are a very small percentage of the total.
Honestly77 said:
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
TNS201 said:
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just adding to it. Not saying petitioning and protesting would work, but:
Petitioning and protesting only work through fear. When it's you > the company, then the company will give in. If we have 20 thousand people say that we want truly open handsets, they still won't, because they know theres another hundred thousand that will still buy it. If they fear that if having a locked handset will make them no sales unless they give in, then they will.
Motorola tried leaving it unlocked with the Driod, but then, for whatever reasons, they locked the bootloader in the X. Why do you suppose Motorola would do this? Do they have incompetent marketing people? Remember they have the numbers...we don't. So we can only guess as to why they chose the way they did. Perhaps Verizon had something to do with it? I can't wait to see what they do to the bootloader in the next OTA for the DI.
Asterdroid said:
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the notion that the vast majority of android users are not interested in rooting their phones; however, i think that the frequency with which carriers replace phones bricked due to customization is overestimated. I mean I have flashed customs ROMs, radios, recovery images, etc. onto my N1 and my DI dozens upon dozens of times and never run into a problem that couldn't be fixed with a battery pull and a restore (at the most). In contrast, I bricked three iphone 3GS's in six months while attempting to customize them. Obviously, apple is notorious for locking their **** down, so I am not convinced that the notion that verizon will have to replace fewer X's than, say, DI's holds water
As reported by androidandme.com, It seems as though an agreement has been made for Verizon and Motorola to have the first phone to ship* with Gingerbread (2.5).
http://androidandme.com/2010/09/news/motorola-and-verizon-score-gingerbread-exclusive/
As stated above, the wording seems to be first shipped* with GB, not necessarily first device to receive the update. With Verizon having the largest ad campaign for Android phones, coupled with the farthest deviation from the stock OS, it does a lot to harm (dis-unify) the Brand Identity of Android.
Read it, and not only is everything in that article speculation; It doesn't say a damn thing about Verizon/Motorola getting a Gingerbread deal (with any real proof). In fact, nothing in that article has any proof.
I hate this read.
So far the nexus has gotten everything first. Lets hope we get a taste of gingerbread as well.
The N1 will be among the first to get it, does it really matter that much which phone ships with it first?
There is so much misinformation that article, out reads like the onion.
Pfft, whats the big deal.. someone will be first, why not motorola.
Besides, since we're here at xda, u'll get the gingerbread before those phones hit the market anyway.
And I'm sure that google won't let exclusivity for android phones. Not that it's even possible with an open-source system.
IF any other crappy phone takes Gingerbread BEFORE my Nexus...
I´ll put it on Ebay and pick an Iphone4:
At least I´ll have the security that my phone will be up to date on time and that at least it will deliver what promises: antenna malfunction included.
Sounds like more mis-information The Nexus 1 will hopefully get it 1st
the nexus is googles official dev phone. which means gingerbread is most likely being developed using a nexus so i doubt any other phones will recieve it first unless google has another dev phone by then
There´s only one positive answer to the thread´s question:
-Motorola Strike= Nexus Two
DarkDvr said:
1- Besides, since we're here at xda, u'll get the gingerbread before those phones hit the market anyway.
2- And I'm sure that google won't let exclusivity for android phones. Not that it's even possible with an open-source system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if google holds onto the source until a phone ships with gingerbread then not only would that phone have it before the n1 (1) but that would also give android exclusivitiy (2) which in the long run may actually really help both android and google (and of course motorola and verizon ).
Now obviously roms leak all the time and some hacked up version would land on the n1 but to me it seems that doesn't count. AOSP and OTA are what count for an update being "official"...no?
and really...who cares?
Why I think the Nexus One will see Gingerbread first?
Because Motorola loads up their devices with Bloatware. Motorola can not even release the Milestone with 2.2 until Q1 2011 to get it to work with the MotoBLur software.
Dude I don't understand why some of yall actually think the N1 won't see gingerbread first. I'm almost sure Google has stated somewhere that it is. Also the N1 is the google developer phone. Even if it's not there to buy anymore, it's still google's developer phone..... they have said that.
We got 2.2 first, months before some. Why wouldn't we get 2.5/.3.0 (whatever they decide to call it) first? We will...
Being old I long since lost the need to dickslap. Who cares who gets it first, more power to them. There is no doubt we will get it in short order regardless of whether we are actually the first. That is in contrast to many which will never recieve it without downloading it via a custom rom which the vast majority are not even aware they can do. I am glad I am where I am with phones, there is still not another piece of hardware out there I percieve as being worth a spend. I suspect as it continues to age another developer phone will be annointed and I'll be there. Its good to keep in mind that google said they were getting out of the business model, not out of developing a phone period or having a part in the development of a new handset.
ok, so here is how android works. Google makes/upgrades Android, this is a very basic version (stock OS). This version is only able to work with the dev phones. It is then up to the responsobility of the maufacturere (moto, htc, etc) to get it to work with their phone. So the instant that gingerbread is completed it only works for the Nexus One, it then takes weeks/months for other manufactures to get it working on their specific phones. So too fool yourself into thinking that the nexus one wont get the Os update first is just false. The dev phones will ALWAYS get the updates first, assmuming the hardware can handle it.
P.S. I concider the moto droid a dev phone even though it officially was not one.
stuff said:
Dude I don't understand why some of yall actually think the N1 won't see gingerbread first. I'm almost sure Google has stated somewhere that it is. Also the N1 is the google developer phone. Even if it's not there to buy anymore, it's still google's developer phone..... they have said that.
We got 2.2 first, months before some. Why wouldn't we get 2.5/.3.0 (whatever they decide to call it) first? We will...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Techincally when N1 got 2.2 the "developer phone" was the mytouch, so the current dev phone doesn't always get the update first.
=D
JCopernicus said:
Techincally when N1 got 2.2 the "developer phone" was the mytouch, so the current dev phone doesn't always get the update first.
=D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the dev phone was the HTC magic, mytouch was a carrier version. Technically your right, but I'm guessing as soon as Google's baby, the nexus, was released it took over dev status even if not officially announced
Rellikzephyr
Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk
didnt the deal say something about the first phone to keyword SHIP with gingerbread, I have confidence that the N1 will be the first phone to get Gingerbread
Dunno if you guys have seen this. I didn't notice because I usually only hang around here but it just got posted to reddit so I saw it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
If true, it would definitely explain a lot of things. It does make me dislike Samsung, but hopefully the carriers can strong-arm Samsung into doing what everyone else is doing.
Personally, I bought this phone because it was either this or the Droid X, and the difference was that while the DX might have Froyo now, the odds of Motorola putting Gingerbread on it are less than 100%, and the odds of it getting anything after that are even lower, and with the locked bootloader you can't do anything about it. With the Fascinate, at least we can look forward to community built ROMs for some time into the future, definitely past what Samsung is willing to do (I figure they're never going to even consider putting Gingerbread on the Fascinate what with the LTE phones coming out soon, and SAMOLED+ and all that). People should probably avoid Samsung unless they specifically want the nice hardware and easy hacking, in which case it seems like Samsung is the most lax with security so they're the best choice for hacking.
Hmm, very enlightening, of it's true of course. Sounds entirely plausible though. Oh well, I really don't care anymore, not with kaos and friends on the job.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
This is what we all expected.
But the question is... Why was it released with Eclair when Froyo was released before this phone was released.
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
They arent building a new ril. They are hacking android around the current crap ril Samsung gave us.
Don't buy it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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That's what jt's been doing, and he ended up just hacking the current Samsung RIL to work. And if you follow his twitter, he said that the RIL from Eclair, Froyo, and Gingerbread on the Android side didn't change much which is why they're jumping straight to Gingerbread instead of wasting time with Eclair.
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
Secondly, the reason that we (not Samsung) could not build a ROM not based on the stock OEM ROM was because the source code for the RIL that Samsung provided for the Fascinate was bad code, which made it extremely difficult to create a working RIL what will work with a custom OS. However, jt1134 and punk.kaos were able to reverse engineer the bad code into working code, in order to proceed with ROM building.
This has nothing to do with Samsung themselves though. Samsung built the RIL to begin with, so they most certainly can (and have) created RIL code that works with Froyo, quite a long time ago in fact. They released the Galaxy S line with Eclair because that was likely the newest version available when they began developing the OS for those phones. In order to convert the OS to Froyo to launch it on the phone, they would have had to significantly delay the launch, which was not an option. This is likely why so many phones are released with outdated versions of Android. And I would like to point out that if they just put Google's code on there and didn't insist in polluting it with their own proprietary junk, it wouldn't take so long to release in the first place, and wouldn't be so difficult to upgrade later.
Getting back on topic, I figured that the problem with getting these updates really all comes down to money. People have always had to pay for OS upgrades for PCs, but due to Android and iOS, have now come to expect to receive these updates for free. The problem is, somebody has to develop an upgrade process, and test the heck out of it, and those developers have to get paid. So the OEM pays them, and then naturally tries to pass the cost along to the carrier, because they don't want to work for free. The carrier also doesn't want to pay for the upgrade, but also knows they can't get away with charging their customers for it without significant backlash, so they basically just sit there and hope the problem eventually goes away, or that the OEM will finally back down and release the update for free, which is what's been described as our current situation.
If this is really such a big problem, they could be taking steps to not end up in this situation, such as figuring the cost of these upgrades into the price of the phones and/or rate plans. However, the carriers also have added incentive to not push for the upgrades, because that effectively extends the life of the handset, and they want you to keep buying new hardware all the time, since they make money from selling hardware, and lose money on the free upgrades.
In the end, it's all about money. Thankfully we have such a great community of developers here on XDA that are willing to go the extra mile to not only get us our upgrades, but also add cool features and boost the performance way beyond what the manufacturer gave us. Thanks to that, our hardware's lifetime is determined not by when a carrier or OEM pulls support, but rather by when the devices physically die or break, or the hardware becomes too outdated for the tasks we wish to perform. And this way, through donations, we can pay our developers for good upgrades, not our carrier for crappy, bloated ones.
Im not saying its true but the most legitimate explanation for all this bull**** I have actually heard in a while. So for what its worth Im not going to shoot that down. Possibly true at this point.
Sent from my fascination station using XDA App
ivorycruncher said:
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
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Mrbirdman said it himself, actually. (1.5, but close enough).
http://twitter.com/#!/_mrbirdman_/status/3002051533479936
Anyway, I don't know whether to believe this but it explains why no US carriers have Froyo yet. It's kind of frustrating that Verizon is the only carrier that hasn't even had a leaked Froyo build it seems. Damn ingrates spoiling leaks for the rest of us.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the link. I admit that tweet came before I followed him on twitter, so I hadn't seen that. I can see how that would complicate matters though.
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
Sounds like it's just more trumped up bull**** designed to stir up the masses. Who knows really, but all I know is I wasn't stupid enough to purchase a phone based on future "promises."
Jake_Mongoose said:
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
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You might wanna rethink that. Why, you ask? Because Samsung puts out some of the best hardware available, especially the screens, and we always have devs that can hack up the code to make it better than it ever would have been with a stock ROM. HTC isn't too bad, though the issue with rooting the G2 is certainly raising some eyebrows, but if you were thinking about Motorola, have fun with your locked bootloader and other fun tricks that attempt to squash community development. Aside from lousy source code, Samsung phones are the easiest to root and customize due to the unlocked bootloader. You can basically just flash anything you want with ODIN, no problem.
It is not necessarily the case in the future because Tab reportedly has locked boot loader. This said people already found workaround, but who knows?..
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
ivorycruncher said:
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
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Yup, this is how I've decided to make phone decisions from now on as well. As long as the phone's software can be replaced by XDA, I don't care too much about the manufacturer's updates.
J Shed said:
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
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It is easier to hide posting on a forum than it is sending a tip into an online news outlet, at least in general. Also, by posting it in a forum, it is entirely likely that it will be up for longer than it would be if posted at say, Engadget, because it takes longer for news to show up in major outlets if posted in a forum first as opposed to a news site. If it were posted at Engadget or another tech blog, they are likely watched over very closely for potential NDA breaches, etc. I doubt Samsung looks are random forums/subforums/threads nearly as close.
IF it were $$ couldn't we as users pay like $20 for Froyo...
x 3 million phones = more than enough to pay for DEV
I don't buy it.
Why?
Because these companies work off of contracts. Verizon would know exactly what they were getting into before signing. If Samsung decides to breach said contract, fine, let Verizon sue the hell out of them. Lastly, Verizon would not have sold or marketed docks that rely on 2.2, if they had no intention of releasing it.
Actually one more thing. If US Carriers were refusing, Samsung would halt development. We are seeing new leaks for the other US models all the time, and Verizon is still being worked on (but not leaked).
This is a case of where 2+2=5=false.
http://www.vampii.com/dcom/componen...-x-bootloader-already.html/blogger/czerdrill/
Indeed I saw a presentation from a guy who worked for a major phone hardware company recently about recent advances in 'locking down' hardware. They are getting better and closing more loopholes with every generation. 2048-bit encryption, complete trust chains, burying sensitive traces, chip-swapping detection and on and on. Even digging right into the hardware it is getting harder and harder to find weaknesses if the manufacturer is determined to lock something down.
If you look at older phones like Droid X and Milestone that still haven't cracked there is almost no chance the Atrix has a weakness unless someone majorly goofed or there is a leak.
Well there is one 4th option that I think that what devs are trying to do and, IMO, is the real meaning of cracking: Finding a security hole and exploit it.
But as haloimplant already mentioned that's highly unlike to happen...
Unfortunately nothing said was news to me. I gave up a long time ago when my Milestone never got cracked.
Mods still make the phone fun, but it's night and day different of what you can do with say a Galaxy S...
Until applications stop supporting Froyo/Gingerbread/ICS/whatever the final update Motorola pushes is, I dont see the need for a custom kernel. Stuff like 2init that allow everything but the kernel to change would be enough for almost everything you'd want to do. As long as Motorola pushes semi-recent kernels, we should be ok.
From what I've read, in the bootloader bounty topic, we have something close to release.
Bootloader might not ever get cracked completely, but there are certainly ways around it. Look at the iPhone, they can modify it with various levels of exploits. (iBoot, ramdisk, userland) and they don't have it cracked completely.
Also, number 3 on that list could be pure speculation, or it could be complete truth. There could be hundreds of people that know it, or just 1.
PixoNova said:
From what I've read, in the bootloader bounty topic, we have something close to release.
Bootloader might not ever get cracked completely, but there are certainly ways around it. Look at the iPhone, they can modify it with various levels of exploits. (iBoot, ramdisk, userland) and they don't have it cracked completely.
Also, number 3 on that list could be pure speculation, or it could be complete truth. There could be hundreds of people that know it, or just 1.
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+1. Us Atrix users obviously don't have the userbase that iDevices have, but we have the *new* nVidia chipset, there are bound to be holes. Some talented dev needs to find it. But we have like 1/20 the users that iDevices have. And like 1/1000 of those are devs. But coming as a jailbreak dev on the iPhone. Im gonna take a plunge and see myself.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
Jotokun said:
Until applications stop supporting Froyo/Gingerbread/ICS/whatever the final update Motorola pushes is, I dont see the need for a custom kernel. Stuff like 2init that allow everything but the kernel to change would be enough for almost everything you'd want to do. As long as Motorola pushes semi-recent kernels, we should be ok.
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Motorola will have an "Official Gingerbread" out this year. Will they have an "Official ICS"? Highly doubtful
There will be partial ICS available through mods, but why play the waiting game when the update is available and easy to flash? Most of the waiting is for sales/marketing purposes anyway.
^ Look at the HTC Desire, Froyo was available to be installed early last summer. One major carrier didn't release it till Halloween. Guess what, the "Official version" was the exact same as the leaked version (I used both to compare). Then there's the T-mobile Galaxy S "Froyo incident" (which everyone knows that story by now). Verizon Fascinate, (the list goes on and on).
The average Joe will sit around and wait for an OTA, but the average XDA user knows better.
That's why any exploits found on the Bootloader will still better than nothing...
PixoNova said:
From what I've read, in the bootloader bounty topic, we have something close to release.
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Seriously? Will it allow us to finally get rid of blur via another Rom?