Database Users

Invitation to discuss the full potential of a rooted Android phone

Hi everyone,
I'm in the midst of trying to understand the full potential of a rooted Android phone, and have started a thread here. I wish to invite users with good knowledge of what a rooted phone could do to contribute to the thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=6210151#post6210151
Looking forward to your participation.

potential
This phone is going to be incredible!!! the nexus one and its insane price tag will eat it bad on this one. Plus the Incredible is hands down better than the nexus, and thats just on paper!!! wait till it in our hands!!! lol I have a ROOTED Droid Eris (selling to help compensate for incredible) thats a month old, a ROOTED and OvrClocked Moto Droid thats a week old, and I already have pre-ordered a shiny new HTC Incredible (soon to be rooted lol).

about the droid
the droid is not hands down better then the nexous one
they are the same phones same processors and almost same everything
the droid has a better camera and more ram
thats it
so how is that hands down a better phone
i ordered mine and got it yesterday for my wife she is on verizon
i have the nexous one and after hella playing with both and testing both there about the same
my nexous one is faster but its rooted
i like the droids looks and how skinny it is but its not hands down better then the nexous one
also its does not have the Noise Cancellation technology but from what i can tell there both great call audio

p71ricky said:
This phone is going to be incredible!!! the nexus one and its insane price tag will eat it bad on this one. Plus the Incredible is hands down better than the nexus, and thats just on paper!!! wait till it in our hands!!! lol I have a ROOTED Droid Eris (selling to help compensate for incredible) thats a month old, a ROOTED and OvrClocked Moto Droid thats a week old, and I already have pre-ordered a shiny new HTC Incredible (soon to be rooted lol).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3 new phones in a month? Wow. Can your reverse the root on the Eris and Droid and return them? I thought people had 30 days to evaluate and return.

He's a collector

sn95chico said:
the droid is not hands down better then the nexous one
they are the same phones same processors and almost same everything
the droid has a better camera and more ram
thats it
so how is that hands down a better phone
i ordered mine and got it yesterday for my wife she is on verizon
i have the nexous one and after hella playing with both and testing both there about the same
my nexous one is faster but its rooted
i like the droids looks and how skinny it is but its not hands down better then the nexous one
also its does not have the Noise Cancellation technology but from what i can tell there both great call audio
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for one. It has better touch sensor technology, 8gig of internal memory for music/media/whatever/, actually can get reception? The noise cancel tech isn't really important and doesn't always work flawlessly. Just the better touch senor and reception make it FAR superior to the nexus one. Plus it has an Fm modulator and an 8mp cam that apparently takes great pics and video soo,

the droid is not hands down better then the nexous one
they are the same phones same processors and almost same everything
the droid has a bett
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for one. It has better touch sensor technology, 8gig of internal memory for music/media/whatever/, actually can get reception? The noise cancel tech isn't really important and doesn't always work flawlessly. Just the better touch senor and reception make it FAR superior to the nexus one. Plus it has an Fm modulator and an 8mp cam that apparently takes great pics and video soo,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See if you still feel the same when N1 is running Froyo while INC is still stuck on Eclair many months from now lol

modidlee said:
See if you still feel the same when N1 is running Froyo while INC is still stuck on Eclair many months from now lol
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Click to collapse
Please tell me you're joking.
I'm gonna throw this out there right now:
The Nexus One is JUNK.
Between the crap screen, crap touch sensor, crap network (mine was tmo), there's no arguing that the Incredible is better.
And check this out. You're probably unfamiliar with the concept, so I'll help drop some knowledge on you....
Custom Roms.
When Froyo is released for any phone, someone will package it for the Incredible (and every other device under the sun. Maybe we'll have to wait a week or two, maybe we won't. But I'll tell you this - I won't miss clicking my 'Browser' icon on my desktop and the piece of $h!t touchscreen sensor mistaking it for 'Phone'.

m1k3- said:
Please tell me you're joking.
I'm gonna throw this out there right now:
The Nexus One is JUNK.
Between the crap screen, crap touch sensor, crap network (mine was tmo), there's no arguing that the Incredible is better.
And check this out. You're probably unfamiliar with the concept, so I'll help drop some knowledge on you....
Custom Roms.
When Froyo is released for any phone, someone will package it for the Incredible (and every other device under the sun. Maybe we'll have to wait a week or two, maybe we won't. But I'll tell you this - I won't miss clicking my 'Browser' icon on my desktop and the piece of $h!t touchscreen sensor mistaking it for 'Phone'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im going to throw this out there for you....
Nexus one is far from junk.
I have it and I am on Tmo, I have excellent reception, the screen is loads better than many phones, and my touch screen works fine.
My Co-worker just got the incredible under my advisement when it became clear that verizon was passing on the nexus. I have played with it and put swype and the 3d gallery on it for her. It is a nice phone, sure it has some upgrades compared to the nexus but is is far from an "OMG this phone pwns" type of a situation.
As far as the firmware issue...not everyone wants to void their warranty and put custom firmware on their device, some people just want a legit OTA update in a timely fashion...me I always void warranties.
Different opinions are fine, but you dont have to be a closed minded douche about it.
Mike

I agree with Mike the N1 is not junk. I made the switch from the N1 to the Incredible. While I freaking love the Incredible (especially the fact that the touchscreen isn't laggy/glitchy) and have found it to be markedly more polished, I will always regard my N1 fondly. It was so nice knowing that root access was waiting for me before my device even arrived (it may be a while before this happens with the Incredible), and the level of customization available for the N1 made it a blast to play with (and made it fast as hell too). What I don't understand is why people get so pissy in these threads. I mean c'mon, we are only dealing with phones here. I would hate to see how some of these folks react in situations that actually matter

it's called credibility....
Until you guys, NOT MENTIONING ANY NAMES, can say that something "is better THAN" something else instead of "better THEN" you sound like an uneducated idiot. And I can't even finish reading your post because anything you say has no CREDIBILITY. sorry.
Ok but seriously, i'm on verizon, have had the vogue, hated WINMO, switched to blackberry pearl flip, which was nice to me, except locked gps, then found this awesome site, unlocked my vogue, put a 6.5 rom on it (thanks nfsfan) tried most of the android distros, and realized that a phone pumping some power paired up with android is the way to go. Ordered my incredible online, it arrived friday, waiting on me when i got home from work, and haven't looked back. I don't have direct comparison to a N1 or Eris, or any other android phone for that matter, but it is AWE-SOME..... Screen is brilliant, connectivity is easy, feels good in the hands... i also work for a company that sells sprint, so i will get to do a side by side with the EVO that is supposed to conquer anything else that is currently out. we'll see....

mike105105 said:
Im going to throw this out there for you....
Nexus one is far from junk.
I have it and I am on Tmo, I have excellent reception, the screen is loads better than many phones, and my touch screen works fine.
My Co-worker just got the incredible under my advisement when it became clear that verizon was passing on the nexus. I have played with it and put swype and the 3d gallery on it for her. It is a nice phone, sure it has some upgrades compared to the nexus but is is far from an "OMG this phone pwns" type of a situation.
As far as the firmware issue...not everyone wants to void their warranty and put custom firmware on their device, some people just want a legit OTA update in a timely fashion...me I always void warranties.
Different opinions are fine, but you dont have to be a closed minded douche about it.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, are you familiar with the touch controller's tracking issues? And that's not even to mention the 3g issues. Screens spontaneously cracking? N1 has issues.
As far as people wanting to keep their phones stock... To each their own for sure on that one.
However if you're one of those people, why would you even be here?
The point was that the Incredible wouldn't get Froyo for "several months" after the N1 does. That's a BS statement and I called him on it. If that makes me a ****, I'll take the hit.

Personally the N1 seems like a better phone because I don't have to deal with the bugs. But thats only because I don't own one of them yet.

m1k3- said:
Uh, are you familiar with the touch controller's tracking issues? And that's not even to mention the 3g issues. Screens spontaneously cracking? N1 has issues.
As far as people wanting to keep their phones stock... To each their own for sure on that one.
However if you're one of those people, why would you even be here?
The point was that the Incredible wouldn't get Froyo for "several months" after the N1 does. That's a BS statement and I called him on it. If that makes me a *****, I'll take the hit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, the touchscreen issue is a combo of software and crap buildup on the screen, once I took care of those issues it hasnt happened again.
Like I said I have no issues with 3g.
A few random people out of a couple hundred thousand phones does not make the screen cracking a real issue, more than likely a user problem...though I am not placing blame just stating a very real possibility.
If you know what this site is like then you must know that many people come here for things other than custom firmware, from apps to Q&A, this site has more to offer than custom firmware.
And as for his original statement on froyo, he is probably right in that the nexus will get an OFFICIAL upgrade before the other phones.
And you are a **** because you used the term ****
Mike

mike105105 said:
First off, the touchscreen issue is a combo of software and crap buildup on the screen, once I took care of those issues it hasnt happened again.
Like I said I have no issues with 3g.
A few random people out of a couple hundred thousand phones does not make the screen cracking a real issue, more than likely a user problem...though I am not placing blame just stating a very real possibility.
If you know what this site is like then you must know that many people come here for things other than custom firmware, from apps to Q&A, this site has more to offer than custom firmware.
And as for his original statement on froyo, he is probably right in that the nexus will get an OFFICIAL upgrade before the other phones.
And you are a **** because you used the term ****
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congratulations on not having the 3g issues like thousands of other people have had. Maybe it's because you're not a ****? Or maybe your N1 is magical? Or maybe you're just in denial about it?
At any rate, I don't believe your touchscreen issues were resolved with a kleenex. Many believe it's due to the actual controller in the phone. Maybe it could be fixed with software, maybe not. Either way nothing's been done about it to this point, so the issue still exists. But since we've established your N1 may be magical, you may not have these issues.
As far as an OFFICIAL SUPER DOPE FROYO RELEASE.
Hey, if you're naive enough to run a completely non-optimized stock ROM on your phone..... Have at it.
Again, your point was that we Incredible users would have to wait SEVERAL MONTHS for Froyo. We won't. Deal with it.

In terms of a Development Community the Nexus is the way to go(CyanogenMod, need i say more?).
But as far as a 'features' comparison goes the Incredible wins.
Also as far as a reliable network outside of major metro areas Verizon owns T-Mobile.
When the Incredible has root user access and superuser permissions enabled there will be less that separates the two assuming Sense is able to be removed and native 2.2 is able to be installed on the Incredible.
As a Verizon customer who wants reliable coverage, I had to go with the Incredible. If we all wait for the 'next best phone' well we would never buy a phone b/c that happens monthly. Let's do out best to support the developers and not piss off the Nexus one developers too much because if we are nice and supportive maybe they will work to enable the features that the Nexus One has with root access to our Incredibles, cyanogenmod included.

m1k3- said:
Congratulations on not having the 3g issues like thousands of other people have had. Maybe it's because you're not a *****? Or maybe your N1 is magical? Or maybe you're just in denial about it?
At any rate, I don't believe your touchscreen issues were resolved with a kleenex. Many believe it's due to the actual controller in the phone. Maybe it could be fixed with software, maybe not. Either way nothing's been done about it to this point, so the issue still exists. But since we've established your N1 may be magical, you may not have these issues.
As far as an OFFICIAL SUPER DOPE FROYO RELEASE.
Hey, if you're naive enough to run a completely non-optimized stock ROM on your phone..... Have at it.
Again, your point was that we Incredible users would have to wait SEVERAL MONTHS for Froyo. We won't. Deal with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, I really wish this didnt have to spiral into childish bull. The whole point was you were acting like an **** before, and then you continue to act like an ****. Just GROW UP!! My phone is not magical it is just the fact that NOT EVERYONE HAS THOSE ISSUES.
Do some damn reading, capacitive touchscreens can be affected by conductive buildup on the screen...like greasy fingerprints and sweat, so yeah I have CM installed and I keep my screen clean and I have not had the issue again. How can it be the controller when that same controller is used in many other devices.
And once again, just because many people do have 3g issues doesnt mean everyone does. I have a constant 3g connection and have no issues, no magic involved.
And your last ridiculously stupid comment about running stock froyo...what is wrong with people possibly wanting to stick to a stock OS...that was not the original argument, the original argument was who was going to get an official update first, not weather stock is better than custom.
The problem with your arguments is that you are using an all or nothing logic, if some people have an issue it means everyone has that issue...regardless of what they tell you. You just make some nonsensical statements about their phone being magical, and some weak attempts at witty put downs.
THE ONLY THING THAT WAS BEING ARGUED IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WAY YOU WERE ACTING.
TREAT PEOPLE WITH SOME RESPECT!
Mike

So the person that started name-calling (you) is lamenting that the thread has spiraled into something childish. Oh, the irony.
Why haven't there been a rash of complaints about touchscreen inaccuracy on any other android phone (at least not to the extent of the problems with the N1)? Oh wait, I know! N1 users must have greasier fingers than the average users of other android phones, right?
Wipe the screen? That's your fix? Seriously? I've used touchscreen phones for about 5 years now:
2 treos, 2 iphones, 3 android phones.
The ONLY touchscreen I've ever had ANY issues with is my N1. To be fair, the treos obviously weren't capacative, but still.
My argument isn't an all or nothing argument. Heck, I never even said the Incredible 'totally pwns' the N1. My only point is that the N1 had way too many bugs when it was first released. My opinion is that for the cost of the phone, some of the parts are a bit questionable.
And again, when it comes to Froyo, don't roll up on what's probably the largest android custom rom development site bragging about how the Incredible isn't going to get an OFFICIAL Froyo update until way after the N1. Because the 99% of us that are here are using custom roms (yourself included) and we just don't give a ****. Again, deal with it.
Thepoint in saying what he did about Froyo was basically 'HAHA THE N1 IS GONNA HAVE FROYO AND ALL OF ITS DOPE FEATURES MONTHS BEFORE YOUR INCREDIBLE WILL'. Again, it's simply not true and we all know it.
In the end, it's just my opinion about a phone.

MY problem is you made a bunch of matter-of-fact statements, I said that is not so with my phone, then you go and start mocking me saying that my phone must be magical.
Ok so you have used touchscreen phones for years...I am an electronics technician and an embedded systems programmer...but go ahead and tell me, because you know better, that a dirty capacitive screen, along with a sensor gain turned up too high in software cant cause the exact issues. I mean a bunch of people admitted that the problem went away after they changed firmware.
As far as the N1 having too many bugs, didnt the incredible already get an OTA because of a few major bugs.
And once again your lack of logic shows....the froyo thing....I will say it again, it doesnt matter how many people come here for custom firmware, most does not equal all so stop saying that just because many of the people here use CF, that is all everyone here uses. The point is still valid, the N1 will probably get an OFFICIAL update first. That word I used, official, is a qualifier...that means the argument I am making is based on that point being true.

mike105105 said:
MY problem is you made a bunch of matter-of-fact statements, I said that is not so with my phone, then you go and start mocking me saying that my phone must be magical.
Ok so you have used touchscreen phones for years...I am an electronics technician and an embedded systems programmer...but go ahead and tell me, because you know better, that a dirty capacitive screen, along with a sensor gain turned up too high in software cant cause the exact issues. I mean a bunch of people admitted that the problem went away after they changed firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word. Your theory could hold water. However, I'm a Linux Sys Engineer going on about 10 years now, so I do know a thing or two about Linux. And what I know leads me to believe otherwise. From the stock ROM, to the several versions of CM, to a few versions of KingClick's Desire ROM, ALL of them exhibit the touchscreen issues on my phone. This is probably due to the fact that while each one might run slightly modified kernels, the module that handles the touchscreen support is the same in all of them, since it's ultimately built from the same sources. Maybe it's my specific phone, but I find that hard to believe given the scope of complaints I've read here and elsewhere on the Internet.
mike105105 said:
As far as the N1 having too many bugs, didnt the incredible already get an OTA because of a few major bugs.
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Click to collapse
Indeed, sir. But as far as I know it was only to resolve an exchange support issue. I'll gladly deal with this issue to have a properly working touchscreen. Again, I never said or even implied the Incredible is perfect.
mike105105 said:
And once again your lack of logic shows....the froyo thing....I will say it again, it doesnt matter how many people come here for custom firmware, most does not equal all so stop saying that just because many of the people here use CF, that is all everyone here uses. The point is still valid, the N1 will probably get an OFFICIAL update first. That word I used, official, is a qualifier...that means the argument I am making is based on that point being true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're arguing with yourself on this one, dude.
My logic was quite lucid. My point was essentially that I believe 99% of the people who frequent these forums run custom ROMs on their handsets. Therefore other than using them for the purposes of building custom ROMs, no one really gives a rat's a** about 'official' ROMs, because 99% of the people here probably don't run them on their phone.
Furthermore, the 99% of us that do run custom ROMs will be running the Incredible's version of whatever Froyo ROMs are available.... Probably within a week or two of when they're available for the N1. We will not have to wait 'several months' as the other dude stated earlier.

Locked bootloaders...a new trend?

I read that the new Motorola Droid X and Droid 2 will have digitally signed bootloaders. Which means that only approved Motorola ROMS can be flashed. I wonder how long it will be before HTC and everyone else starts doing this? This could put an end to all of our fun! Of course the cellular providers will save a lot of money if they don't have to replace all of those bricked phones. It will be interesting to see what happens to the bootloader in future OTA and Froyo updates for the DInc...

this belongs in general

Lexus One said:
This could put an end to all of our fun!
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Click to collapse
It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.

We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.

acezhi said:
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.

Moved as not development.

reagianicparable said:
It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possibly. But it takes a hell of a lot longer when you're up against encryption. You usually only win this battle if someone on the inside leaks the key. And by then there are new phones coming out and this keeps getting lower and lower on the priority list. Personally, I don't think we can win the encryption battle...

its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions

two_cents said:
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Granted, HTC *may* never lock their bootloader, but what is to stop Verizon from demanding it? Verizon is permitting it in the Motorola. What if this turns out to be a profit maximizer for them? Could HTC next? Time will tell...

I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.

What it boils down to is PROFIT. Verizon will weigh the revenues and decide with their pocketbooks. It doesn't make any difference whether HTC likes it or not. Verizon calls the shots. If HTC says no, they're gone. Samsung or LG or someone else will pick up the slack. As for losing customers, it doesn't matter. Money is what matters. Just ask any of our greed driven cellular companies if you don't believe me. Personally, I don't think there are that many people who re-flash their ROMS and would care if the bootloader is locked or not. I think we are a very small percentage of the total.

Honestly77 said:
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.

TNS201 said:
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just adding to it. Not saying petitioning and protesting would work, but:
Petitioning and protesting only work through fear. When it's you > the company, then the company will give in. If we have 20 thousand people say that we want truly open handsets, they still won't, because they know theres another hundred thousand that will still buy it. If they fear that if having a locked handset will make them no sales unless they give in, then they will.

Motorola tried leaving it unlocked with the Driod, but then, for whatever reasons, they locked the bootloader in the X. Why do you suppose Motorola would do this? Do they have incompetent marketing people? Remember they have the numbers...we don't. So we can only guess as to why they chose the way they did. Perhaps Verizon had something to do with it? I can't wait to see what they do to the bootloader in the next OTA for the DI.

Asterdroid said:
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
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I agree with the notion that the vast majority of android users are not interested in rooting their phones; however, i think that the frequency with which carriers replace phones bricked due to customization is overestimated. I mean I have flashed customs ROMs, radios, recovery images, etc. onto my N1 and my DI dozens upon dozens of times and never run into a problem that couldn't be fixed with a battery pull and a restore (at the most). In contrast, I bricked three iphone 3GS's in six months while attempting to customize them. Obviously, apple is notorious for locking their **** down, so I am not convinced that the notion that verizon will have to replace fewer X's than, say, DI's holds water

[Q] will the droid 2 ever get gingerbread?

if yes so officially from motorola or by a rom?

It is my understanding that Gingerbread would require a change in kernal that can't be done due to it's locked bootloader. Though I could be wrong on that. As for a OTA update, I've read several lists that list the Droid 2 as a "possible" upgrade. In otherwords, it can happen, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

Yeah, Moto and Verizon have kept silent about what phones are getting upgrades. It would be nice if they would just put out a list, even if they don't give out dates.

I have been told by a VZW insider to not count on it. Note however this same source told me the Eris was dead, and just last week the Eris received an OTA update to fix things that needed to be fixed.
I only wished my Motorola insiders would tell me something, but they won't say a darn word, and they are friends, good friends.

I would imagine it's more of a decision of Moto than Verizon. I don't really see Verizon not releasing an upgrade for a phone that Motorola released. Thus I would pry more at the Moto guys than the Verizon guy, cause they'd likely just be guessing at what Moto will do.

In my personal opinion I really dnt think it matters if we get GB since we already have a lot of stuff better than the blur GB such as gummyjar, liberty! I mean if we do get it, were still going to bootstrap it and change the rom, well atleast I will lol
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App

I'm almost positive we will get gingerbread. It would be pretty messed up for a high end device to never get one upgrade. Remember the D2 launched with froyo.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App

Very true.

I say if we don't get timely upgrades to keep our phones functional, we launch a class action lawsuit against Motorola.

Well the only thing about that is
A. Our phones are functional even without further updates
and
B. As far as I'm aware, there was nothing in the contracts we sign saying they HAVE to update our phones...
So from a legal standpoint, I doubt you could even get a class action lawsuit far.
(I realize you were probably joking, but this is true)

From what I've read, it looks like we could get Gingerbread on our own, because it doesn't require a new kernel.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA Premium App

OMG, why all wants new and new version of Android? GB totally suck, nothing new, only new graphic and ctrl+c and ctrl+v ... I don't like gingerbread almost. Its just only number, nothing more

Actually, I'm quite serious. If they hold us by contract to a single phone for two years, it is their responsibility to keep it updated with patches.
Rooted Droid 2 running Froyo 2.2 with the 2.3.20 update

Actually, unless it is something totally crippling, then once they've sold you the phone they don't have to anything. Because unless it is something crippling then there can be no argument made for usability, and as long as the phone is usable you would have no case.

-Gilgamesh- said:
Actually, unless it is something totally crippling, then once they've sold you the phone they don't have to anything. Because unless it is something crippling then there can be no argument made for usability, and as long as the phone is usable you would have no case.
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Click to collapse
Exactly. They are not held by the contract you signed to update the android operating system AT ALL. Patches are one thing, as long as they are critical to the functionality of your phone. Seeing as how the current 2.3.20 is working fine with no major problems, they have no obligation to update android.

Google could require manufacturers to make any patches they put out available.
2.3.20 has problems, such as the phone sometime rebooting itself or not coming out of sleep mode when the power button is pressed. Those are issues that Motorola is supposed to address and fix. I paid for a working phone, not a problem.

silverfang77 said:
Google could require manufacturers to make any patches they put out available.
2.3.20 has problems, such as the phone sometime rebooting itself or not coming out of sleep mode when the power button is pressed. Those are issues that Motorola is supposed to address and fix. I paid for a working phone, not a problem.
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I see your point. However, 2.3 isn't a patch, its a complete system upgrade. Besides, forcing phone makers to push out EVERY udpate google puts out would be very expensive for the makers, and deter them from making further android phones.
I do think Moto should fix problems like those with maintenance releases, but that still does not obligate them to update them to 2.3
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have 2.3 on my d2, but I'm not holding my breath.

Sorry to jump in but what about the security issues present in the phone? They put people in harms way by not attempting to patch phones.You could make a case that the the security issues were unknown at the time you signed the contract making it invalid. I understand your point but the security factor is why just saying the phone works its not acceptable..at this time there is nothing a person can do to patch these exploits and we have the text message bug that could ruin your life..Its an interesting situation that needs too be fixed.please correct me if I am missing something here.
Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

I actually love how people keep bringing up the contract. You have your service with Verizon, whom is also who sold you the phone, thus your contact is with Verizon, not Moto. Thus, your contract has not thing one to do with Moto, thus they could care less what your contract says. And because Moto is the one responsible with issuing the updates, not Verizon, Your contract doesn't relate in any way to any type of updates.

If you want class action, it should be against Motorola for their eFuse malware. This is the real reason we have no gingerbread on our phones. Custom ROMs would already be here which would be good enough for everybody but the most incompetent non-techies too afraid to even root.
I'd also argue that Motorola is fraudulauntly branding these devices as android. Every other manufacturer that sells android devices does not cripple them. I even did a little bit of research before I purchased my device and saw nobody warning about this. I figured "hey, android is open source, these are the most popular devices, what could go wrong?"
Absurd.

[Q] Why have things been so quiet on the dev front?

Why have things been so quiet on the dev front lately?
There was an initial flurry of activity, and most of the big ticket items were taken care of like rooting, sideloading, enabling tethering, webtop hacks, HDMI mirroring, etc. Thanks to DG and the other devs for that!
However, afaik we've only got 2 ROMs so far. I was hoping to join in the dev community when I get the time, but there doesn't seem to be much of one anymore.
Other moto devices with locked bootloaders do have significantly more activity. I'm tempted to jump ship to the Verizon Thunderbolt now... pity because I really like the Atrix despite it's locked bootloader.
(I don't mean to disparage the work done so far... I realize that one of the reasons activity has slowed down is because the big ticket items have been taken care of

Like I've stated in another post in a different thread. Without an unlocked bootloader, you're going to be hearing crickets in these forums soon, as peoples 30 day trial periods are soon coming up. Sure not everyone is returning it but no dev support means a dead device for those of us that want custom roms. There is nothing more to say. If for some off chance the bootloader becomes unlocked you can always buy it again if you still want to support motorola. But don't keep this device based on hope. Accept that moto screwed you and return it while you still can. I am 7 days to go...

No, I'm not keeping it based on hope. I want to keep it because I really like the form factor of the phone as well as its resolution and battery life. I also wanted a phone with HDMI out.
You don't need a custom kernel to have a ROM - sure that imposes limitations on what you can do. In fact, the GingerBlur ROM proved that you can get some enhancements of newer Android releases without changing the kernel.
I can understand though that fewer DEVs would be motivated to work on a phone with a locked/signed bootloader. However, the Droid X forums seem to be pretty active...

i too am a little disappointed at the shrinking dev base - i've seen some leave. however of AT&T android phones, regardless of the software this one appeals to me the most for its form factor/size (i wanted 4" over 4.3"), front-camera and color (all black). the HDMI out (+enabled webtop) is nice too, along with the screen resolution.

'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
Well, I'm sticking with it regardless. I got it on launch day and I plan to enjoy it to the fullest.
The tegra 2 game that I want isn't even out yet.

NoNameAtAll said:
'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
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Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!

professor_chaos said:
Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!
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I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.

I just found out that DG has left us... this totally blows, though at least Kenneth is still working on the GingerBlur ROM.

eallan said:
I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.
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Did just that and never looked back. LTE Blows at&t out the water where I live and even tough single core...it feels just as fast.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

It does suck we have one person creating roms. Ken is doing an amazing job but only one man can only do so much. I feel that if more devs were here creating roms people would stick around. I plan on keeping mine for awhile since I bought it outright...I'm due for an upgrade soon so well see.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.

It's not the devs fault that Moto screwed them, most folks got it on the hint that moto had changed for the better and was going to make the bootloader open.
I can't blame the folks for taking them back.
Hell I have a Captivate, Hardware outstanding ( just like the Atrix, ok minus the GPS ) Software flat out sucks, at least the devs could do something with the Captivate with the open bootloader. It makes it a pretty damn good phone.
Just imagine what could done with the Atrix if the devs could actually do something with it, Kens isn't real happy either as I'm sure his considerable talent is being stifled by Moto, that burns his ass a lot more than folks returning it because moto rammed it home hard.
I'm sitting on couple of upgrades right now and would get the Atrix in a heartbeat IF Moto and ATT would allow it to be open for the devs. In the meantime I'll wait and may switch to Sprint ( even though I've been Orange for over ten years ) for the Evo3d ( think I read somewhere it has Wimax and LTE radios in it ), that thing is looking real nice and about as future proof as it get's in this industry.

Atrix is a bust Motorola really blew it with the locked bootloader. They underestimated the developer communities influence and it's coming back to bite them in their fat greedy ass.

BravoMotorola said:
I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.
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It's not like everyone is saying that. But the ones saying that are really being vocal about it. I don't get all the hate. Phone has not even one month and mostly I see people complaining about the locked bootloader. Eventually, that will get cracked.

Devnant said:
Eventually, that will get cracked.
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such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.

cegna09 said:
such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.
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and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves

live4nyy said:
and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves
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i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.

cegna09 said:
i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.
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Given the specs of this phone and the capabilities I think that the development community represents a higher percentage in the overall buyers base for this phone. Rooting and custom ROMs are becoming more "fashionable" to average users. I'm not saying that there will be an immediate impact within the lifespan of this phone but if Moto continues these methods it will turn around to bite them

look at the other dual core tegra phone(optimus 2x). the devs and the the people there seems to be really happy with their phone now that clockwordmod is available and some custom kernels are already taking into place(optimus 2x is not yet release here in US and some part of europe)
so i think the locked bootloader is one of the major culprit why most devs are leaving atrix and so are some people who wants custom roms for their phone. its a big disppointment really, moto and at&t are [insert word here]
its a good phone but motorola is acting like apple.

The truth about the bootloader

http://www.vampii.com/dcom/componen...-x-bootloader-already.html/blogger/czerdrill/

Indeed I saw a presentation from a guy who worked for a major phone hardware company recently about recent advances in 'locking down' hardware. They are getting better and closing more loopholes with every generation. 2048-bit encryption, complete trust chains, burying sensitive traces, chip-swapping detection and on and on. Even digging right into the hardware it is getting harder and harder to find weaknesses if the manufacturer is determined to lock something down.
If you look at older phones like Droid X and Milestone that still haven't cracked there is almost no chance the Atrix has a weakness unless someone majorly goofed or there is a leak.

Well there is one 4th option that I think that what devs are trying to do and, IMO, is the real meaning of cracking: Finding a security hole and exploit it.
But as haloimplant already mentioned that's highly unlike to happen...

Unfortunately nothing said was news to me. I gave up a long time ago when my Milestone never got cracked.
Mods still make the phone fun, but it's night and day different of what you can do with say a Galaxy S...

Until applications stop supporting Froyo/Gingerbread/ICS/whatever the final update Motorola pushes is, I dont see the need for a custom kernel. Stuff like 2init that allow everything but the kernel to change would be enough for almost everything you'd want to do. As long as Motorola pushes semi-recent kernels, we should be ok.

From what I've read, in the bootloader bounty topic, we have something close to release.
Bootloader might not ever get cracked completely, but there are certainly ways around it. Look at the iPhone, they can modify it with various levels of exploits. (iBoot, ramdisk, userland) and they don't have it cracked completely.
Also, number 3 on that list could be pure speculation, or it could be complete truth. There could be hundreds of people that know it, or just 1.

PixoNova said:
From what I've read, in the bootloader bounty topic, we have something close to release.
Bootloader might not ever get cracked completely, but there are certainly ways around it. Look at the iPhone, they can modify it with various levels of exploits. (iBoot, ramdisk, userland) and they don't have it cracked completely.
Also, number 3 on that list could be pure speculation, or it could be complete truth. There could be hundreds of people that know it, or just 1.
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+1. Us Atrix users obviously don't have the userbase that iDevices have, but we have the *new* nVidia chipset, there are bound to be holes. Some talented dev needs to find it. But we have like 1/20 the users that iDevices have. And like 1/1000 of those are devs. But coming as a jailbreak dev on the iPhone. Im gonna take a plunge and see myself.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App

Jotokun said:
Until applications stop supporting Froyo/Gingerbread/ICS/whatever the final update Motorola pushes is, I dont see the need for a custom kernel. Stuff like 2init that allow everything but the kernel to change would be enough for almost everything you'd want to do. As long as Motorola pushes semi-recent kernels, we should be ok.
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Motorola will have an "Official Gingerbread" out this year. Will they have an "Official ICS"? Highly doubtful
There will be partial ICS available through mods, but why play the waiting game when the update is available and easy to flash? Most of the waiting is for sales/marketing purposes anyway.
^ Look at the HTC Desire, Froyo was available to be installed early last summer. One major carrier didn't release it till Halloween. Guess what, the "Official version" was the exact same as the leaked version (I used both to compare). Then there's the T-mobile Galaxy S "Froyo incident" (which everyone knows that story by now). Verizon Fascinate, (the list goes on and on).
The average Joe will sit around and wait for an OTA, but the average XDA user knows better.
That's why any exploits found on the Bootloader will still better than nothing...

PixoNova said:
From what I've read, in the bootloader bounty topic, we have something close to release.
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Seriously? Will it allow us to finally get rid of blur via another Rom?